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48871 No. 48871 ID: d6af4f

The discussion thread for that one quest with the green guy and the mimiga cutebold psycho
girl.
Edit: This discussion thread can serve to cover all quests within asteroidverse and any offshoots. Fen Quest has its own dis thread at https://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/84312.html
Expand all images
>>
No. 48875 ID: ed57e8

instead of making new tech specifically to negae the asteroids magnetic powers, they should destroy the source of the magnetic shit. aka, destroy the core!
>>
No. 48876 ID: 86fe4d

wo should totally hook Rokoa up with the blue dude.
>>
No. 48878 ID: 5a5118

With the colors of that pic, it almost looks like Rokoa isn't wearing pants.
>>
No. 48885 ID: bccf7b

>>358675
Wouldn't that inherently destroy the asteroid, alter the mass and gravitational field, and essentially bathe the entire asteroid in deadly radiation?

I mean, it'd be easier just to give everyone a gun and let them shoot themselves in the head.
>>
No. 48887 ID: 459534

>>358678
You say that like it's a bad thing. :3c
>>
No. 48890 ID: 1b0f2f

>>358675

We are not going to get our mimiga to destroy the zombie core because it's obviously just supermassive and you can't make mass just disappear.
>>
No. 48895 ID: cf49fc

>>358690
If it WERE supermassive, it would crush everyone on the surface to death. Or at least Hok and his squishy race. That also explains why they need cables to go everywhere, as long range radio is probably a bitch to keep functional in a place with a magnetic field that powerful.

Also, if you want to escape a Magnetic planet, use a starship made of COMPOSITES. Not that hard to get around, really, all you need is the tech to make composites. I blame Iron Cove for everyone not escaping. Everything is their fault.
>>
No. 48896 ID: 86fe4d

>>358695

yeah, man! fucking Iron Cove! we should set their reactors to melt down as a goodbye gift.
>>
No. 48901 ID: 1854db

Oh so that's what that tab was we saw in her ear. The plasma sword. I wonder what else she keeps in her ears...
>>
No. 49017 ID: a2853b

Lagotrope, you are the new Weaver.
You've done what, four, five different quests now? And all in the span of a year.
>>
No. 49019 ID: ed57e8

why is rokoa so sexy?
>>
No. 49023 ID: a2853b

Hey lago.
>http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/382081.html
Start date
>2012/01/25
End date
>2012/01/30
You began and completed an awesome quest with 450 posts and 86 images in
FIVE.
FUCKING.
DAYS.
>>
No. 49026 ID: e3f578

I've already started planning on how to deal precisely with the Hive if they want us to stop sheltering rogues.

At first, I thought maybe we could convince their leaders with speeches from us about how family togetherness is, yadda yadda yadda, generic tgchan tries and soapboxes a culture into thinking differently. But then I realized we're all neckbeards that know nothing of debate or family togetherness and that we couldn't possibly convince them to change their opinions at all on rogues. But the keyword is we.

Gentlemen, we need lawyers, professional debaters, philosophers and scholors, hell even preists along with psychologists and anthropologists is expertise in Neumono culture. Men of the convincing trade. Probably all human as we don't know shit about other cultures and I bet in the far technological future, every human knows sappy family pop-culture lessons and have probably developed actual theories and debates on this shit. They all get together to do behind the scenes team discussions on how to convince that rogues aren't really rogues, just family that has moved out. It might be a far stretch, but we'd have a team of professional convincers to help at least see how we view it and maybe walk away with a slightly new perspective that could treat non-hostile rogues better and those about to go rogue.

So basically, get a bunch of humanities best debaters with Neumono anthropologist experts beackign them up in a room with the Neumono government to help us convince them to not kill people like Kappi. If this plan is good, the minute we have control again in the quest, we need to send mercs out to recruit all these scholars, lawyers, priests, and experts on the Asteroid.

Also, Lagotrope wouldn't have to suffer through the inevitable soapbox marathon to come once Hive diplomats show up. He could just simply decide if our plan succeeds or not, either with a roll of dice or however Lagotrope decides things that happen in his quests that could either be successful or a complete failure. And all the words can happen behind closed doors or with delightful, possibly humorous highlights because we just stuck a bunch of diplomats in a room with opposing diplomats and there's bound to be shit flinging.
>>
No. 49031 ID: 86fe4d

>>358826

might be that cultural differences present themselves in different factions as opposed to different races, if this is far enough in the future. y'know, except stuff like hiveminds and crap. basically, what I'm saying is that instead of choosing a race, we might have to choose a faction to side with and import people from.
>>
No. 49034 ID: 459534

>>358826
Neumono priests? There's an interesting thought.
>>
No. 49194 ID: 9fd65e

Nice story (hadn't read it all yet)!

Although I had extremely trouble to find something else than the discussion-page...
This tgchan isn't the best system if you are looking for... a quest you know the author and title... and the wikipage isn't that helpful if you are searching for other quests from lagotrope than cheequest... which current prequel-chapter clamp doesn't even seem to be inserted...

So for a beginner: How do you guys find quests or know when there is a next chapter, other than just scanning some pages of /quest/ every day?
(ch1 was here, right?
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/371645.html
... someone know if/where ch2?^^)
>>
No. 49195 ID: 369d34

>>358994
There isn't a chapter 2, yet. Lagotrope is doing that Clamp quest right now, as far as I can tell.

You're right about it being hard to find specific author's work here. Lagotrope doesn't even have an author page on the wiki, at least not one I could find.
>>
No. 49199 ID: f70e5e

while having a plan to convince the hive to not kill our rouges would be a good idea, I think having a backup plan to deal with rokoa if she is sent after us might be a good idea. judging from what we saw using infantry against her needs overwhelming numbers to be any good. we don't have overwhelming numbers, so what we need to do is find some way to give our men an advantage. shes's probably going to make a beline for our rouges so if we detect her approach soon enough we could probably lure her into a prepared kill zone by moving them. i'm thinking a mass of clay-more mines or something similar. once shes worn down we can swarm her with infantry equipped with heavy weapons.
>>
No. 49200 ID: ed57e8

>>358999
she can't beeline for the rogues, if we take them off the radar. equip them all with pin systems that shut off their connection so they can't be detected.
>>
No. 49206 ID: 1b0f2f

>>358999

We simply have to bore her to death.
>>
No. 49214 ID: cf49fc

>>359006
This idea is perfect! We just need some mines that create clay swamps, then put a fuckton of them down a really, really long chokepoint. Eventually, she'll be crushed to death or die of frustration.
>>
No. 49215 ID: 369d34

We could also use a last ditch defense system around the CAI core. I was thinking putting the CAI into a hardened sphere, then sticking outward facing shaped charges over the surface of the sphere. Only the CAI gets to activate the charges. Stick a really long extension cable out of the core to plug it in, cameras and microphones at regular intervals on the surface so we can see and hear, and a battery and emergency radio beacon in the core for recovery if we do blow it. Oh, and have the charges segmented and independently triggerable. So we could launch ourselves out a window in an emergency, and blow the face off whoever is trying to take us.
>>
No. 49274 ID: e1d311

>>358995
Thank you very much for the information!
Another question: I keep on changing my IP dayly, so does my ID here...
I tried the watch-Thread-function, but it seems, the list gets deleted every time I get a new ID...
Is there any way to use this function for more than a day?^^
>>
No. 49291 ID: 8b538b

>>359074

nope.
>>
No. 49293 ID: ed57e8

>>359074
stop changing the IP? why are you doing that?
>>
No. 49294 ID: e1d311

>>359093
Because I'm behind a router and my provider resets my IP automatically every 24h...
I don't have an own server, so I don't have any reason to buy me a constant IP and every dsl-provider for normal web-user here resets the IP-adresses after some days.

Maybe I should write a userscript that stores the informations on pc... some message-box-size-remembering and preview-function would be nice, too^^ and this javascript-based response-hover-viewing takes forever to show up sometimes...
>>
No. 49316 ID: 369d34

>>359094
Quick-n-dirty way is to make a bookmark folder for your watched threads. Just dump 'em in there, and open 'em all at once to check. When it takes too long to load, cull out some.
>>
No. 49376 ID: 4bdd79

>>359094
Use a proxy with a stable IP address.
>>
No. 49473 ID: d6af4f

Okay, thoughts on part 2. I'm not about to begin it, but I started thinking of it. The whole 'you're an ai, do stuff' thing was an experiment, and while it had its plusses, it had plenty of minuses. For a myriad of reasons, it made things very difficult to update for, as well as, I imagine, suggest for. And while I had fun in parts, there were parts where I wasn't enjoying the quest at all. If this were any other medium, I'd likely have crumpled the paper and started over. Therefore, I plan on switching gears back to the standard method of taking control of a single character (in this quest's case, multiple characters, one at a time.)

That's not to say there won't be still be control over which direction the trade hub goes in, though when that is the case, I will be trying to make that short, sweet, and to the point, instead of it being a constant focus. The AI will still be around, just acting as it normally does, but more in the background. Constructing stuff, providing side advice and hackery, trying to get Rokoa's pants off, etc etc.

Simply put, using the AI as the focal point often spread too much attention over too many topics at once, and there had to be some events/specific topics to direct things in. At that point, it may as well use a single character as the focal point.

I post this here since I'm open to thoughts on that matter, so do think at me if you have any questions/comments. My main concern is that it will be a pretty jarring change of gears.
>>
No. 49475 ID: 456290

I don't mind doing the whole "Voice in your head" dealie. I think a little less time spend managing would do us some good, as these characters are really hot interesting!
>>
No. 49477 ID: e3f578

>>359273
I'm cool with it
Though I'm going to miss hacking shit
I don't even care about the base management at all, I'm terrible at simcity.
I'm happy that the AI will still want to get into Rokoa's pants and will very much enjoy seeing that from another perspective. In fact, I think watching an AI with a behavior based off of us will be so much better than hacking I'm willing to trade it in for.
But hacking and directly affecting the world was fun as hell. Just saying.
>>
No. 49479 ID: 97bd86

>>359273
I have no problems with the AI becoming a stylization/caricature of /quest/.
>>
No. 49480 ID: e3f578

>>359279
Oh man, what if we suggest and interact with the the AI! We'd be arguing and debating with essentially ourselves on what to do!
>>
No. 49481 ID: 9c7c3b

>>359280
Dear god, it'd be a feedback loop. It'd probably end up cracking the asteroid.
>>
No. 49486 ID: 456290
File 132968193138.jpg - (335.43KB , 598x900 , asteroidquestthread2.jpg )
49486

>>359280
>>
No. 49487 ID: 459534

I'd be fine with that. I imagine it'll make character transitions less complicated/tedious.

And I'm actually kinds glad you're not starting it up immediately. 'cause, apart from a couple days, I won't be able to visit tgchan for the next month-or-so. Weep for me. :<
>>
No. 49488 ID: fcf88e

I do have a sort of suggestion for that which can use our new 'resources' in the field of SCIENCE. Simply put, the A.I. is able to hack things and work through wireless signals right? Why not make a robotic body for the A.I. and make it an actual character? Still be able to act as the A.I. primarily and as the head voices, but an Actual character could allow us to do our own thing too.

I see A.I. mode serving as sort of base/hacking/eye in the sky mode while the robot body can be used for direct things such as action or fighting.

Plus, I don't trust Anon enough to not to try to have Rokoa get in Rokoa's pants.
>>
No. 49489 ID: 1854db

>>359273
Switching the 'main character' to someone else, essentially? It could work.

Personally I think that if the AI caused lack of focus, there is a very simple way to sharpen that focus without making us not be the AI. Have other characters give the AI directives. Instead of letting us decide what our goals are, have other characters treat the AI essentially like a servant-and that's what it was designed for!- so that we don't have so much autonomy.

Or I dunno, maybe that was something you didn't like having to do? Or was it the fact that we could talk to the whole base at once? I can see how that would divide the focus.

I kindof like base management... oh well.
>>
No. 49491 ID: 1a99f0

It will be too bad losing some of the quirks that came from being an AI, but if we get to play as Rokoa some the switch shouldn't be an issue.

Alternately you could have us still technically be the AI and just use a mechanic like transferring the advice souls. Have us follow a single character at a time by tapping into their communicator or something of the like.
>>
No. 49494 ID: d6af4f

I should add, I'm not against the idea of having the AI as the focal point ever again ever. I would just do it under more specific scenarios, where the pros could outweigh the cons.

>Robot as a character to control
This is a good point, and it was an option tossed out briefly early on. It could happen, just not right away. I'll give it some thought as the quest progresses.

>>359289
Directives could count as specific scenarios, sure. I.E. if Rokoa was the focal character during her mission, it may not be jarring to switch to AI every once in awhile when she plugged in the nodes. Or as far as in-base goes, less autonomy could work, but it's iffy and would have to be handled carefully.

>base management
Like I say, it may not be a constant focus, but it still will be a thing. With, perhaps, a streamlined tech tree of sorts, I don't know yet.
>>
No. 49495 ID: 8947c3

>>359294

will we ever get to use it as an excuse to blow shit up again?
>>
No. 49497 ID: e3f578

>>359294
I still want one scene where a caricature of us, written by you, flirts with someone while we are from someone else's perspective.
I just need that one scene and I'll be set. To see an author's interpretation of how /quest/ would act would be a wonderful thing to read. Then go hear some chatter on how other people in the base actually think and react to us without the fear of /quest/ hearing their opinion of him.
Quest characters are always so polite to us when they're directly interacting with /quest/, you can't even really get an honest response from them in ITQ since they're still talking to us and will hold back their complete thoughts. I really want to know if Rokoa, Tin, Hok, etc. honestly likes us, hates us, or just tolerates us.
>>
No. 49500 ID: 459534

>>359297
Alright, you've got me hooked. Now I wanna see that, too. It shouldn't be too difficult (I hope), and it'd be interesting to see what Lagotrope does with it.
>>
No. 49880 ID: 246670

(dunno if i should post this here or in the fanart thread)

im thinking of doing a TF2 crossover with this, what class would fit Rokoa better? Heavy or Soldier?
>>
No. 49881 ID: ed57e8

>>359680
saxton hale
>>
No. 49882 ID: e1fb71

>>359680

the one who pulls plasma swords out of his ear and sticks nails into his spine.
>>
No. 49883 ID: cf49fc

>>359682
The Spah sticks things in OTHER people's spines. I think Medic, because she's so dangerously reckless and unhinged.
>>
No. 49899 ID: e3aff6

>>359683
Aren't they all?
>>
No. 49912 ID: cf49fc

>>359699
True.
>>
No. 49986 ID: a3b384

I'll have to vote for her being Medic anyway. It just feels right. Also, hot.
>>
No. 50668 ID: f70e5e

this may sound crazy but i think Rokoa is a latent hive queen. she has a very strong personality, is to a slight degree disconnected from her hive, and above all else she attracts rouges. I think she could form her own hive if she wanted to, but is either unaware of this or doesn't want to deal with it.
>>
No. 50669 ID: ed57e8

>>360468
yeah we kinda figured that. the only that that keeping her from usurping the old queen is she doesn't WANT to.
>>
No. 51002 ID: a2853b
File 133376026604.png - (91.86KB , 801x780 , neumono.png )
51002

>>398565
>So, what's specifically so scary about salikai the species? I doubt they're all sadistic monsters.
But they are.
Thus far, we have seen three clear evolutionary 'winners', the Neumono, the Salikai, and the Predators, who all made it to the point of intellect where they have learned how to thrive instead of survive.
Neumono united into hives through their empathic sense, Predators use their empathic abilities as a weapon, and the Salikai just use their empathic network as a GPU to give them super-processing intellectual abilities.
To the Neumono, the Predators are 'monsters' because they are unstoppably dangerous and unreasonable beings that are clearly sentient and sapient yet still eat neumono, while the Salikai are 'demons' because they are even more alien than the Predators since they have no empathic linking ability, making them absolutely untrustworthy and unpredictable without any way to 'read' a Salikai.
>>
No. 51004 ID: 874bd8

>>360802

Honestly I expected more from the green demon. It kinda feels like there was supposed to be more, but the rest of his lines were lost or something so he was just killed off. Unless of course, the rest of his species is even worse than he is, then things might get more interesting. :3c
>>
No. 51007 ID: affb00

>>360804

Well maybe we fucked up leaving him alone with Rokoa. It did seem like a bad idea, especially with his confidence about restraints and propensity toward electrical stimulation. I dunno what plans were in place should he survive.
>>
No. 51020 ID: 800ce6

inb4 we meet a purple-eyed salikai who wields dual scimitars.

>>360804

there was supposed to be a family of his around here somewhere, no? them neumono guys better keep their eyes open.
>>
No. 51031 ID: 4bdd79

>>360807
>we fucked up
>implying we didn't plan to have Rokoa kill him from the start
I did, anyway.
>>
No. 51037 ID: 410a04

>>360831
Yes that was kinda apparent, asshole.
>>
No. 51055 ID: b85f8c

I thought the green devil would at least keep Rokoa restrained, though I had my doubts about him being able to get anything out of her.

In the end though I'm only shook up about him dying because we lost A) our Predator translation guy, B) our best escape plan (even though it got fucked up a DAY after it started because of a simple GPS) and C) our best weapon against Rokoa.

I fully expected him to betray us at the last minute or something. Did anyone REALLY believe he'd let us go after we served his purposes? I was hoping we would be able to betray him first, as soon as we had a chance of escaping on a helicopter or something.

I actually kinda hope Rokoa is alive so that we can catch her with her pants down later as she's regenerating and finally force her to help us rather than letting her call the shots. I wonder how she'd react to being legitimately defeated?
>>
No. 51091 ID: affb00

I BET THREE STRIPES THINKS IN ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME AND IT NEVER SHUTS OFF.
>>
No. 51099 ID: 9cd02a

fuck year three stripes adventure!
>>
No. 51100 ID: e3f578

They say this cat Three Stripes is a bad mother
SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
I'm talkin' 'bout Three Stripes.
THEN WE CAN DIG IT!
>>
No. 51129 ID: fa9f7e

So can neumonos and predators breed or what?
>>
No. 51131 ID: e3f578

Well I'm sure the predator does breed with them on the basis that Polo said it makes sense for Four and Three Stripes to gather females over males
whether or not it takes I dunno
>>
No. 51134 ID: e3f578

oh, huh, with the discussion in the thread I guess I'm wrong with my assumption.
Though these predators do have that creepy feel about them.
>>
No. 51137 ID: 459534

>>360934
So no shipping Three-StripesxPolo? :C
>>
No. 51152 ID: b7169d

Holy crap I knew some of their kind could get big, but that new one is just Huge!
>>
No. 51160 ID: fa9f7e

>>360937
Oh, we're doing that anyway, but we'll have to substitute rubbing and sucking for actual penetration.
>>
No. 51161 ID: 70591e

>>/quest/400079

I think this is what we all were thinking but weren't saying out loud.
>>
No. 51162 ID: e3f578

>>360960
I take the creepy comment back, we got those predators beat by a mile.
BDSM (or worse), furry, regular consensual stuff, POMF, and fade to black's I can handle. Beasty is a direction I don't think tgchan should take.
>>
No. 51168 ID: 70591e

>>360962

you're, like, way too late.
>>
No. 51174 ID: c4a1fc

>>360962
Do you read the fanart thread? It's true that bestiality doesn't occur often, but it does happen.
>>
No. 51176 ID: e3f578

oh yeah
there was that Seventy WAN thing
Man that was both beasti AND Loli now that I think about it
shaaaaaame
Even if it was a funny joke
>>
No. 51203 ID: 70591e

>>360976

also Tetra.

also dragons getting raped.

also all that stuff from way before, like Crowmanticar.
>>
No. 51206 ID: e3f578

Cromanticar doesn't count because that shit was ridiculous and a crow banged and ponymorph
Dragons don't count they're sentient; they often come with the ability of shapeshifting though not the dragon in question.
Three Stripes is barely sentient. While intelligent, he still acts like an animal and is even being trained like one now. Animals in real life have shown as much intelligence as Three Stripes though I do not have citations, it's more of a general statement as I'm sure plenty of animals have evolved to develop smart strategies to hunt, hide or flee for survival.

Trying to remember who Tetra is. It's on the tip of my tongue.
>>
No. 51208 ID: 70591e

>>361006

hey, whatever excuse lets you sleep at night.
>>
No. 51284 ID: 58a693

>>361006
p sure there's a bunch of a dog and a crow fucking
>>
No. 51289 ID: 70591e

>>/quest/400838

it's why I called her badass, man. earless neumono look like women with buzzcuts, apparently. homegirl's in survival mode.
>>
No. 51292 ID: bccf7b

>>361089

BAMF-mode engage.

Awwwwwwww yeeeeaaaaaaah
>>
No. 51358 ID: 9cd02a

So first we were in the spire aboveground, then we went underground where the salikai base was, then we got blasted further underground by an explosion. How deep are we actually?
>>
No. 51575 ID: e3f578

I know I loved Rokoa as an ally but she is a complete hateable bitch when you're against her. A fucking brick wall.

After this development, when we do go back to the present, I think I won't tear up if we get her dead. Our CAI counterparts might, but since we won't always be a CAI now, that doesn't matter.

Our feelings will be legit as thoughts for anyone but Rokoa and CAI, if one dislikes Rokoa.
>>
No. 51597 ID: 209a4f

>>361158
The first salikai's base was inside a mountain and may not have actually been below ground-level. Just sayin'.

While I'm at it,

1. Do neumono Predators remind anyone else of Pak Protectors? Well, reverse Pak Protectors, I guess...

2. Why do you think Rokoa was so concerned for Tirrik? Was it just because he's in her hive, or is it because she cares for him (or is related to him :| )?

Epileptic trees, GO!
>>
No. 51598 ID: 209a4f

Ooh! One more question!

3. Is Rokoa a monster or a hero? Or something in-between?
>>
No. 51603 ID: b6edd6

>>361398
She is a lot like Harmuda from Red Sands. The same traits that make her perversely charming when she is on your side make her hateable when she is not on your side.
>>
No. 51606 ID: 49ff09

>>361403

but with boobs.
>>
No. 51616 ID: fa9f7e

So uh

Is it wrong that I'd hit Polo
>>
No. 51617 ID: ed57e8

>>361416
no.
>>
No. 51618 ID: e3f578

>>361416
Man, what did she do to you punk? I mean, yeah, she's going GRIMDARK and angry and everything, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be struck! She hasn't done anything irredeemable.
>>
No. 51619 ID: 61e7f9

I'd tap her
>>
No. 51620 ID: fa9f7e

>>361418
Hit as in have sex with

If you were deliberately ignoring that for humor-related purposes, I'm sorry, it's hard to tell on the internet
>>
No. 51621 ID: 459534

>>361416
>>361418
>>361420
What no why would you hit agirl that is so mean and also she is nice so nodon't :V
>>
No. 51622 ID: 98b0f6

Somehow, I have this horrible thought that Rokoa is trying to recast Polo in her own image. Perhaps as someone who she can allow to kill her. Someone prove me wrong, would you?
>>
No. 51623 ID: fa9f7e

>>361422
Oh fuck
>>
No. 51624 ID: e3f578

I wonder if Lagotrope made this intermission specifically so he could get us to take Rokoa seriously for what she actually is rather than staying in the "Oh she's so fun and likable and rational for a psychotic bloodthirsty killer" mindset we've been having, despite the obvious clues he's been writing in the main quest.
>>
No. 51626 ID: b6edd6

>>361422
She would tell you how she got those scars, except Neumonos don't scar.

>>361424
Who ever said she was rational? (The other ones are fairly common traits of maniacs who happen to not be killing people you care about at the time.)
>>
No. 51685 ID: 97bd86
File 133527800180.png - (17.05KB , 700x700 , sekanibeast.png )
51685

I think we all know where Crown got those feathers.
>>
No. 51688 ID: bccf7b

>>361485

OH FAK D:
>>
No. 51730 ID: b85f8c

>>361485
That's the WRONG COLOR though!
>>
No. 51898 ID: 0221b4
File 133557551931.jpg - (12.53KB , 300x299 , bm9.jpg )
51898

>It is dark and metal.
>>
No. 51901 ID: 6f4add

>>361698

hahaha, oh wow. I should have thought of that. thanks for making me laugh this hard.
>>
No. 52062 ID: c811c4

Body Ranks

An additional hitpoint comes with every rank up. Later obstacles, strength and dexterity tests may use this as well, but the primary

Every 4th rank in this allows the purchase of an additional item slot.


Weapon Ranks

Allows the usage of a weapon, and you must have a weapon in order to attack.

A weapon's effectiveness as a damaging object is purely aesthetic, and will deal the same damage regardless of its appearance. However, its usefulness as a tool is as it appears, and so an axe or similarly bladed object will be able to chop items, a hammer could break boxes and a screwdriver to undo screws, but their damage will always be the same.

The kind of weapon will be decided when rank 1 is reached. It cannot be disarmed/lost permanently.


Armor Ranks

A set of armor's effectiveness for protection is purely appearance. Loose clothes with frilly underwear to the most technologically advanced battlesuits are just for looks, and the effectiveness and range of movement will be the same.

Armor also lose effectiveness the more damage it takes, but quickly heals on its own for each round it is not taking damage.

Each rank gives +1 to armor.


Absorption Ranks

When a contender dies, their essence scatters in the air and lingers for a moment. Absorption is the ability to absorb a fellow contender's C.U. Each level will return 10% of the C.U. that the absorbee has in total (spent and unused.) To absorb, they must either be in range, which increases with each Absorption Rank.
>>
No. 52178 ID: c811c4

Scan
Scan allows the user to see either 2 statistics, their items, or all of their target's non-standard abilities. It costs CU to use each time, at a price of the total amount of stages completed (including the preliminary stages.)

Each rank halves the cost of using this ability, rounding up.
>>
No. 52194 ID: 3a4d1a

So...
Did someone already figure out what in all the worlds is happening?
Is this some game of an bored AI to simulate multiple personalities competing each other?
However for an intermission it seems highly unfitting in Asteroid-quest... Although I'm even now not sure how part 2 and 1 is fitting together despite one shared character^^
>>
No. 52195 ID: 166adc

>>361994
Maybe it's something to just make us nuts.
Go through the puzzles, make friends, earn freedom, meet Rokoa, get blown up. :V
>>
No. 52198 ID: 71d68e

I'm pretty certain everyone is digital, not physical. Simulated, anyway. The overall rules're just too abstract and computational--it's more like a (cruel) video game than physical reality.

Given that the whole process seem to be willowing out a few from multiple candidates, it seems almost like a process similar to genetic algorithms or something.
>>
No. 52207 ID: a2853b

Did anyone else find it odd that Alison was able to understand complex engineering topic as soon as she starting reading about them, while Mathematician had to spend hours reinventing basic arithmetic and algebra?
>>
No. 52209 ID: 4594e2

I'm also thinking that this is a virtual environment. I have the notion as well that this is how Compilation AI's are made. The ultimate survivors will be compiled together.
>>
No. 52224 ID: c811c4
File 133618548107.png - (15.10KB , 700x800 , platformsystemdisplay.png )
52224

Platform Mechanics (With included attack priorities.

Each turn is comprised of three phases. In the first phase, everyone decides where to move before any attacking will be done.

In the second phase, after everyone has landed, they are free to attack. If someone holds their position, and another person jumps on their platform, they will be able to tell at this point whether or not the enemy is attacking, and can decide freely to attack or not.
For all other cases, such as two people jumping on a new tile, they will not be able to tell if the other is attacking. Also, it should note, that if two people are on 2 tiles next to each other, and try to attack each other by leaping onto each other's tiles, they will not be able to attack each other. Instead, they will simply flip positions, unable to perform any midair attacks.

Once all of the attacks are decided, then all attacks will be performed simultaneously. With sufficient attack, they may kill one another. If not, then they may leap again next round before any new attacks come.

The third phase allows for any available non-attack abilities or spoken words if available, even if they received a fatal attack.

There are an unlimited number of people that can occupy a single tile.

These are the normal rules, but items may supersede any of the above.
Additional clarifications/rules will come as needed, if there is anything confusing or missing.

Armor Mechanics
A single armor point blocks 1 unit of attack.
Armor points are returned for each round that the user is not taking damage, and it heals more the more consecutive rounds pass with no attacks.

The healed amounts start with the 2nd number of the Fibonacci series, with the 2nd consecutive non-attacked round healing by the 3rd digit and so forth.

In other words, the first round of non-combat will heal 1 armor point, the next round will heal 1 armor point, the 3rd round will heal 2 armor points, the 4th consecutive round will heal 3 armor points, the 5th round heals 5, and so forth.

Armor heals at the end of a turn. If the user is attacked, the armor will not heal for the round, and the Fibonacci numbers will be reset.

As with platform mechanics, items may supersede this, and additional rules/clarifications are available on request.
>>
No. 52225 ID: b0bf34
File 133619740925.jpg - (1.38MB , 2250x1400 , WILD MASS GUEASSING EXIT THEORY.jpg )
52225

Here's my guess of how the current puzzle can be solved, along with what will happen. X is Alison's placement, V's are single arrow waves, W's are double arrow waves

I think if a platform has an odd number of waves it'll disappear, and with show up with an even number. But as this shows, that doesn't matter, since the exit should be completely clear when we reach it.
>>
No. 52241 ID: 369d34
File 133625039948.png - (49.51KB , 1100x1100 , Turn 8 wave activity.png )
52241

The current turn wave activity map.
I counted turns from when Cloak first moved, so this is turn 8.

Blue arrows are moving waves. Single arrows are single speed waves, double are double speed.

The red box is a possible error. There are two waves on that platform, but they're both in the same direction, and both created by Scanner. I am unsure if this means the platform should be solid or not.
>>
No. 52257 ID: ab8f0c

Just a quick observation here.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that we ought not to absorb friends. I disagree. We should absorb friends. In fact, we should hurry to do it when presented with the option. Those we absorb become part of us. By absorbing the fallen we give them a way to keep living/existing, after a fashion. Besides, we become a little more like the people we absorb. Even just one of these results of absorption should be reason enough to prefer absorbing dying friends and good people to absorbing enemies and wretches. That the ghost or echo of that scoundrel Guardsman will spend the rest of eternity among our fallen friends should disgust us. Let's not make the situation worse by absorbing more villains.
>>
No. 52274 ID: b9e291

>>362057

Well, we absorbed Mathemetician and he still came back on that extra life. If it does make someone weaker upon respawn we should always absorb baddies. That'll make the hard decisions later on so much more painful, and god if there's anything quest loves it's pain.
>>
No. 52364 ID: 71d68e

I wonder if Absorb is part of how CAIs are made.
>>
No. 52376 ID: b6edd6

Can attack abilities be combined? Like disarm+range or knockback+range?
>>
No. 52384 ID: c811c4

>>362176
Yes.
>>
No. 52385 ID: c811c4

Armor Cost (Per rank)/(Total spent):
Rank 1: 8/8
Rank 2: 10/18
Rank 3: 14/32
Rank 4: 19/51
Rank 5: 25/76
Rank 6: 32/108
Rank 7: 40/148
Rank 8: 49/197
Rank 9: 59/256
Rank 10: 70/326
Rank 11: 81/407
Rank 12: 93/500
Rank 13: 106/606
Rank 14: 121/727
Rank 15: 134/861
Rank 16: 150/1011
Rank 17: 166/1177
Rank 18: 183/1360
Rank 19: 200/1560
Rank 20: 218/1778
>>
No. 52394 ID: 5029d1

>>362185
thanks mathematician
>>
No. 52420 ID: 886a4d

gotta say I'm enjoying this new side-quest alot. Your also insane to update it as much as you do.
>>
No. 52439 ID: fb950a

>>362220
Insane in a good way!
>>
No. 52456 ID: 09e5bf
File 133653610634.jpg - (126.18KB , 700x700 , I STILL LOVE DRESSES, BUT HAVE LOST SOME DIGNITY.jpg )
52456

>>/quest/409838
has discovered my shame, so here is Iso with an outfit that more appropriately covers his scandalous tail.
>>
No. 52457 ID: fa9f7e

>>362256
Much better!
>>
No. 52507 ID: 3f39b6

Quests like this are letting me wish a function to get more than the last 50 posts... you are 12h offline and suddenly there are 100 new posts and you have to load all 1000 or so to just read the latest 100^^
>>
No. 52512 ID: 4bdd79

1500 posts and almost 250 images in just 10 days.

Holy fuck.
>>
No. 52513 ID: c811c4

Yeah I was just thinking, I'll be making a new thread before stage 3 begins.
>>
No. 52514 ID: c811c4
File 133661827708.png - (16.15KB , 1223x153 , spreadsheetssf3.png )
52514

>>
No. 52518 ID: c811c4

Alison has 3 Absorb, and glove scissors as an item.
>>
No. 52599 ID: c811c4

Body Cost (Per rank)/(Total spent):
Rank 1: 8/8
Rank 2: 15/23
Rank 3: 19/42
Rank 4: 22/64
Rank 5: 25/89
Rank 6: 29/118
Rank 7: 30/148
Rank 8: 33/181
Rank 9: 35/216
Rank 10: 37/253
Rank 11: 39/292
Rank 12: 41/333
Rank 13: 42/375
Rank 14: 44/419
Rank 15: 46/465
Rank 16: 47/512
Rank 17: 49/561
Rank 18: 50/611
Rank 19: 52/663
Rank 20: 53/716
>>
No. 52602 ID: 410a04

Dear god you are good at this quest thing.
>>
No. 52604 ID: 369d34

>>362402
I'll second that sentiment.

>>362399
Going to share the equation for this?
>>
No. 52610 ID: c811c4

>>362404
Would love to, but, with amazing timing after >>362402
(Thank you both), I have to admit I lost the actual equation for body. It appears to taper off in an increasingly horizontal line, so additional ranks would be 55, 56, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62...
>>
No. 54483 ID: 4bdd79

So apparently your thread broke /questarch/.
>>
No. 54484 ID: 886a4d

It allowed me to expand the thread but everytime I try to view it otherwise it 404s
>>
No. 54485 ID: 369d34

It was accidentally put in questdis, then moved to questarch. That could have something to do with it 404-ing.
>>
No. 54491 ID: 5c94e7

Did I miss the end of Unnatural Selection?
If so, then I have missed it forever, because the archive of it is broken!
>>
No. 54492 ID: c811c4

>>364291
Until it's fixed, the workaround is to expand the thread instead of hitting reply.
>>
No. 54509 ID: 04b86a

>>362410
I. Found. It!

8x^1.5

Does this make me OCD?
>>
No. 54510 ID: c811c4

>>364309
Oh, that WAS it. How clumsy, I plugged that in and forgot that that was the right equation for the total amount, and for some reason I was expecting it to be the per rank cost. That is correct though, thank you very much.
>>
No. 54643 ID: 04b86a

>>/quest/411465
>>/quest/411469
I was going to leave this be and see if we ever found out in quest, but I have to ask: does Absorption have a level cap?
>>
No. 54645 ID: c811c4

I had only planned on rank 10 at max, but I'm considering options to make rank 11+ feasible, most obvious being that a level 11 rank would win over a level 10 rank.

Either way, the maximum CU absorbed will be capped at 100% no matter what.
>>
No. 54648 ID: 04b86a

>>364445
Thanks, that's what I originally figured back when we got the skill line.
>>
No. 54656 ID: 369d34

Dang it. I just realized that the absorption ability gain boon would have been vital to any plan where we tried to red glove a Shopkeep in the level. Win with that boon, and we'd get access to the "merchant" and "persistence" ability lines, though how much they would cost is unknown.
>>
No. 54664 ID: 5c94e7

>>364456
>persistence
OH DAMN SON
You know that means effective immortality, right?
If you had persistence you would still exist, even if you didn't get Absorbed.

Come to think of it, isn't there an Item Steal item? The Shopkeeper probably has a hardcoded infinite number of lives, so getting killed somehow combined with persistence would mean he would just come back.
If you had an Item Disable item, you could probably keep the Shopkeeper dead permanently, and if absorbed he would stay there in your dreams.
That would get interesting.
>>
No. 54684 ID: 886a4d

>>364464

Yup, exactly. I was seriously just shaking my head last night as people jumped on the rez wagon.
>>
No. 54689 ID: f7ae22

I don't think red gloving the shopkeeper as he comes to fix a glitch would really be a good plan, especially not when we have no extra lives. The best reasonable outcome is it just doesn't allow it, or he uses glove scissors to make it a waste of an item. At worst we could actually duel him and it turns out he has 99 attack and we die forever.

Resurrection is useless for a long time, but once we actually have absorb 10 I think people will have enough unique skills/boons to make it more useful to have a good team rather than a single hugely strong Alison. For example, a good use of Resurrection would be to use it along with Duelist's protection of others, making your team able to deal a full round of attacks without anyone being harmed except Duelist who would get revived afterwards.
>>
No. 54692 ID: 886a4d

>>364489
Thats why we have someone scan his stats first.

The big this is Persistence. We NEED that if we're going to last against any more heavy hitters like Mongrel or Recluse. The only reason we gained any CU last checkpoint is because he was so generous and gave us 50% of what he earned. However we now know two more abilities that can pop up. Heal and Teleport. Its possible its only on this guy but we haven't seen Protector anywhere else either. I bet there are going to be skills that are only offered in chests and never in shops. Or even from Stage Area NPCs that aren't mission critical that you CAN absorb from. The only way to acquire them would be through Ability Absorb.

I just hope we do get the option to buy it.
>>
No. 54740 ID: 25eb2f

Um why didn't we us absorb on the chief as it looks like we were in range?
>>
No. 54743 ID: 955d43

We uh...we just lost didn't we? I don't foresee a possible victory at this point.
The Chief is now a god of this game. He is leagues beyond everyone, and if he makes it out of this level, his stats will let him simply crush everyone without a care in the world, he has snowballed out of control by absorbing himself.
Killing him is also not an option, because he has more allies than us at this point, our big fight winner was The Collector, and he's out for good, and I'm pretty sure we're sacrificing ourselves and our whole team to bring him down, IF that even works numerically.

I sincerely don't think we can win in any way, and we've fucked up bad, the game is now over, victory for Chief. Loadstate?
>>
No. 54744 ID: c6ec33

Assuming we get to continue playing from this point... It seems like our only option at this point is to try to convince people that Chief *IS* too powerful, now, and doesn't give a shit about any of them. They'll live for one more stage - just long enough for him to up his stats and abilities to untouchable levels - and then absorb all of them regardless of the exits. If he's smart, he'll up his range, buy access to special skills like double-jump and disarm, and become completely untouchable.

The problem with taking him out now is that he can sit around all day and respawn whenever he wants. If he only has the one respawn point mentioned, pretty much the only way to take care of him is to either: A) Let him respawn and try to get him on the board, or B) Force him to respawn into a kill-squad by letting 39 other players escape.

Alternatively, we could sit a kill-squad on his respawn tile and hope that there's a huge bloodbath around us, and rake in a few thousand CU of our own as people fight for the exits. However, we'd have to convince the other Absorb-3 guy to let us do so, and take care of (in one way or another) any other Absorb 3+ guys that show up while we wait.
>>
No. 54761 ID: 456869

Here's what we do. His minions can't be that stupid, so we should be able to win them over. Then we camp his respawn tile(if we know for sure which it is). If we know which one it is, then only Alison needs to stay, and we can let everyone now and later exit until he has to respawn, with only one hp. Then we stick his damn head on a pike.
>>
No. 54777 ID: 5c94e7

>>364540
We TRIED to Absorb the Chief, but his Absorb level is too high, so he Absorbed himself.
>>
No. 54787 ID: f7ae22

Stats that are probably up to date:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag_qt4j1p5JCdDhhVk50WFpwa1FxY1FuTVp6LTlOdXc
>>
No. 54790 ID: e3aff6

I just remembered that > Blue has 0 weapon, 99 body, 99 armor. Special abilities are Heal, Teleport, No-Absorb.
In other words, I don't see anything there keeping a red glove duel from killing him. If we can get another one, we might be able to blackmail people into leaving by threatening to kill blue and through that kill everyone by preventing them from leaving.
>>
No. 54793 ID: 5c94e7

>>364590
My god...
But that would mean dooming the killer to permadeath too!
We need someone who hates chief or respects Alison so much that they would be willing to sacrifice themselves to trap the Chief.
>>
No. 54796 ID: e3aff6

>>364593
I was thinking more of the threat of killing everyone, though if it comes to it taking the Chief down with us is looking like an increasingly attractive to letting Chief survive to buy enough stats, range, and double-jumps to be unkillable.
>>
No. 54809 ID: fdad59

After Chief did that whole self-absorption exploit, I got to thinking. "Could we burn 1-ups in order to get loads of CU?" It's possible, but it would require trust.

Bump Alison's absorption rank to 10, or as high as possible. Then identify who has a 1-up still, and get their stats. Find someone who could take them down in a duel. Buy a white dueling glove. Get everyone who trusts the guy with the 1-up to give him their CU. Alison stands next to the guy holding the CU while the other guy hits him with the white glove. The holder accepts, loses, and is absorbed by Alison. Once he spawns back in, he gives everyone back their CU, and Alison divides what she absorbed among the backers. Repeat until you run out of people you trust with extra lives.

Now, other than trusting someone with a huge pile of CU, there's the question of absorption range and mechanics in the Rest Areas. If Alison's absorption would only work if she was in the duel and won, she'd possibly have to spend CU out of the pool to buff up her stats. Also, there'd have to be someone else who could take the "holder" in the duel standing by with a white glove, if the "holder" doesn't dump out the held CU as soon as he spawned back in.

I think I'm on to something, but there could be other things I'm missing.
>>
No. 54815 ID: 886a4d
File 133722326663.png - (23.72KB , 990x634 , teleport1.png )
54815

Heres what I think teleport is doing. Trace the diagonol / opposite of Blue's current position. Find that position on the opposite set of platforms. Tada. Examples we've seen
>>
No. 54816 ID: 886a4d
File 133722329410.png - (25.12KB , 993x636 , teleport2.png )
54816

Second teleport
>>
No. 54817 ID: f7ae22

That would only work if the second teleport point was on the bottom instead of the top.
>>
No. 54818 ID: b85f8c

Nope. Your first image is wrong.
>>
No. 54824 ID: 886a4d

Alright since your not seeing whats rather plain to me I`ll try another way. the map has six directions of interest, right, left, up, down, outer, inner.

If he is on the left and he teles he will be on the right.

If he is on the inner map he will end up on the outer portion.

If he is up he will be down.

In the first example he is on the lower platform. To the right. He is also closer to the inner portion of the map.

When he teles he on the upper platform, He is to the left and he is closer to the outer portion.

The second tele he is on the outer wall, he is to the right and he is on the upper platform.

He ends up on the inner portion, to the left and on the lower platform.
>>
No. 54825 ID: 0006f5

>>54790
>>54793
>>54796

is there anything wrong with this plan ? it should be done right away. explain how agreeable the demands are, playing into the hope chief's minions aren't bullheaded enough to call the bluff of permadeath, losing a higher than zero CHANCE to get out of such a tight situation and catch up with their gloryhogging elsewhere.

dont count on it though. im expecting an unmentioned rule that prevents a permadeath plan from being executed. it most certainly would have been done before at least once and caused all kinds of summation inconsistencies with the total players and CU in all the past games, which it hasn't.
>>
No. 54826 ID: e3aff6

>>54825
There is no precedent for this situation one way or another; all of the previous exits have been terrain instead of beings.
>>
No. 54829 ID: 0006f5

i dont think gloving the stage after chief's death is needless risk. unless you think Chief 3 : The Third Time's the Charm is somehow not worth risking over. if an exit is still somehow available, we will learn from that observation and it would not have mattered if we didn't glove the stage.
>>
No. 54830 ID: b85f8c

>>54824
Try putting them side to side instead of on top of eachother. You'll see the mistake you made.

You mirrored one of them, but not the other.

Also quit multiposting so much! You should generally only suggest once, unless there is something rather important to point out, or you need to correct yourself. This isn't a rule or anything but still. Most discussion is technically supposed to be done here instead of cluttering up the main quest thread, especially arguments.
>>
No. 54843 ID: e3aff6

Am I correct in thinking that the Disarmed status is temporarily removed for dueling in the same way that HP and armor are restored? The description never actually says so, but it seems like it probably would.
>>
No. 54847 ID: c811c4
File 133727535216.png - (46.46KB , 1213x443 , stage3completionEndStats.png )
54847

Currently, all characters above the empty/dashed out rows are willing to combine CU and get told what to spend how much on where. Characters below that threshold, from Dress downward, have given their stats, and are friendly to Alison, but for varying reasons don't care to actively join in to share CU.
>>
No. 54848 ID: c811c4
File 133727538870.png - (22.21KB , 730x409 , stage3completionKnownRankCosts.png )
54848

>>
No. 54849 ID: c811c4

DISARM
A form of attack. Instead of dealing damage, the user disarms the target (applied on that turn), for 1 turn, forcing use of unarmed. Unarmed damage is equal to 1/3 of the weapon's rank. As a 1 on 1 with someone using disarm would be the target whittling away with 1/3 damage on the user, this is a support ability.

PROTECTION
The ability to take damage for others. The user is able to move, then prior to attacks, chooses a target. Any damage dealt to the target is redirected to the user, but any additions to the attack (such as knockback) still affect the target.

KNOCKBACK
When an attack is made, the user may knock the target back a number of platforms equal to rank. The user has some control where they are knocked back, but it must be away from the user. Target may only be knocked back across where there are light trails or some other manner of normal travel.
>>
No. 54851 ID: c811c4

Immunity boons: These offer immunity/bypassing of their respective abilities up through an equivelent rank. For example, a level 3 scan immunity will block all scans up to level 3. Their CU cost is the exact same as the abilities that they block.

Only up to a certain rank is available for public purchase at the moment.


Available Immunities
Scan Immunity Rank 1, 2, 3, 4
Disarm Immunity Rank 1
Protection Bypass Rank 1, 2
Banditry Immunity Rank 1, 2, 3, 4
Knockback Immunity Rank 1

Items:
Red/White Glove: 70 CU
Glove Scissors: 35 CU
Tonic (5 HP): 50 CU
Tonic (10 HP): 120 CU
First Strike (Offense) 40 CU
First Strike (Defense) 28 CU
Repair Kit (If armor is able to heal at all, and this item is used, armor is repaired to full instead): 80 CU

Inventory Space Rank 1: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 200 CU (Requires Body 4)
Inventory Space Rank 2: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 400 CU (Requires Body 8)
Inventory Space Rank 3: +1 Item slot (normal and novelty items each) 600 CU (Requires Body 12)

Protection Boons:
Half-damage protection(Rank 2) - All damage received from protecting others will only cause half damage to the user. (150 CU)
Ability Protection (Rank 3) - All additional effects via the attack (such as disarm) are also redirected to the user. (100 CU)
Split damage (Rank 4) - The Protector may choose to take 1 quarter, one half, or three quarters of the target's received damage. (150 CU)

Scan Boons:
Scan spent CU (Rank 2) (30 CU)
Scan unspent CU (Rank 2) (40 CU)
Scan Ability Levels (Rank 3) (80 CU)
Double Scan - (Rank 3) - Can apply 2 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (50 CU)
Scan total number of unique absorptions (Rank 4) (30 CU)
Triple Scan - (Rank 5, needs Double Scan) - Can apply 3 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (70 CU)
Scan All Bonuses (Rank 6) (50 CU)
Quadruple Scan - (Rank 7) - Can apply 4 different scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (90 CU)
All Scan - (Rank 10, needs Quadruple Scan) - Can apply all scan types to a single target at once for the price of one. (100 CU)

Knockback Boon:
Choice Direction - User may specify any direction to knock in, even towards the user.

Absorption Boons
Retroactive (Rank 3) - When the user absorbs a Fallen character, the user gets an imprint of all of the characters that the Fallen one has ever absorbed as well. There is no bonus CU, but they will be available for talk or access, or resurrection. (60 CU)
Double Absorb (Rank 6) - May absorb 2 people in one round. This may only be performed twice per stage. (200 CU)

Heal Boons
Range 1 (Rank 1) - Gives 1 tile range. (100 CU)
Range 2 (Rank 2, needs Range 1) - 2 tile range (300 CU)
Move-Heal (Rank 3) - Same as a normal heal, but uses movement instead of the normal attack action. (250 CU)

Other Stuff
Modify Body (Minor) - Buyer may change their body looks but will still be recognizeable as the same person. This is permanent, but can be bought multiple times. Things like haircuts, height, etc.
Modify Body (Major) - Buyer may drastically change into a new body. This is permanent, but can be bought multiple times.

Weapon Range Access: 80 CU
Heal Access: 100 CU
Knockback Access: 150 CU
Double Jump Access: 150 CU

Extra Life: 100 CU (Limit 1 per customer, non-tradeable)
>>
No. 54852 ID: 431fa8

>>54809
This seems optimal. Absorb Rank 10 and Retroactive for Allison will cost 1156 CU; Absorb Rank 10 and Retroactive for one other character with Absorb 3 already will cost another 1156 CU; 16 extra lives will cost 1600 CU; 19 White Gloves will cost 1330 CU.

But we only have to pay 1226 CU in advance to start the plan working, then 170 for every doubling after that as we burn up our extra lives for additional CU. That means that we should end up with... a couple billion CU, at the end of this.

This can't possibly work the way we think it works, or we've effectively reached endgame right here. Assuming that we can get it all to function without anyone betraying anyone else and running off with a stupidly gigantic pile of CU partway through, of course.
>>
No. 54853 ID: 091389

In case strategy "Break the game" doesn't work, here's a basic spending idea/cost...with 3463 still left to spend if I've done the math right

+1 Extra life for all (1600)
Alison
-Body 11 (0) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 10 (1187)
-Absorption boon RETROACTIVE (60)
Iso
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Duelist
-Body 8 (33) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 9 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Mathematician
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
The Bandit
-Body 12(0) Armor 8 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Frills
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
Clarence
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
Friendgy
-Body 8 (33) Armor 7 (0) Weapon 8 (0) Absorb 3 (0)
Healer
-Body 8 (25+29+30+33) Armor 6 (25+32) Weapon 4 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Succubus
-Body 10 (0) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Shield
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
-Protector 2 (150) + Half Damage (150)
Swordswoman
-Body 8 (30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Spear
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (25+32) Weapon 6 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
Strongarm
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 7 (0) Absorb 3 (41+66)
Horned Flopear
-Body 8 (30+33) Armor 6 (0) Weapon 5 (0) Absorb 3 (66)
Twirl
-Body 8 (29+30+33) Armor 6 (32) Weapon 5 (0) Absorb 3 (0)
>>
No. 54854 ID: 04b86a

>>54852
Don't forget resurrection and possibly retroactive. Those will let us bring back loyal people we've absorbed in earlier stages. The only such person I can think of off of the top of my head is Scanner, but just her will raise the multiplier from over 524,288 times to over 1,048,576 times.
>>
No. 54855 ID: 09e5bf

>>54854
Oh yeah, we could actually bring back loyal dead people who want to return with this plan. And each one we do it with will be able to not only catch up easily, but strengthen the group further.
>>
No. 54856 ID: 6a9fdc

Double Absorb is also pretty cheap. It will rapidly pay for itself, given how many times two people have died in one round thus far, and given that our Absorb rank can overpower most.
>>
No. 54857 ID: b9e291

I hope people realize that the shopkeeper seems to be managing, if not running this show. Any loopholes we find that he can comprehend have been patched on the spot. So using infinite CU sources to revive everyone would likely result in nothing more than getting nerfed. But if used subtly, as if their limits were being obeyed, perhaps the game keepers won't get wise...

It might also be good to corroborate with the shopkeeper. He is after all another object like Allison, albeit one who has probably finished the game (willingly or unwillingly). We can't outright ask him to betray his obligations (fixing bugs, selling stuff for CU) because even if he would agree then he would be nerfed. But we would be friendly to him in noncommital ways, perhaps asking his name, if he's finished the game, nothing too interrogatory.
>>
No. 54859 ID: 04b86a

Of further note, if we do this we'll have Chief, so even if retroactive doesn't continue through the absorption chain we'll be resurrect and rekill him to get everyone he's absorbed anyway once we're in the stage, meaning we'll be able to bring back Engineer and Recluse later.
>>
No. 54860 ID: 4bdd79

Guys.
I found a BIG FUCKING LOOPHOLE.

See, the cost of a resurrection is determined by the CU value of the target at death, if I remember correctly. Now, Shopkeep just changed the rules so the value of a person's upgrades doesn't count. That means their value is determined entirely by their current CU count.

So what if, at the end of the next stage, we took an ally's money, absorbed them, walked through the gates, then resurrected them on the other side and returned all their money? Fuck the limit.
>>
No. 54861 ID: e3aff6

Can someone use both Move-Heal and regular Heal in the same round?
>>
No. 54862 ID: c811c4

>>54860
Only Boons and Items don't count towards the CU spent total. All abilities and main stat upgrades still apply.
>>
No. 54863 ID: c811c4

>>54861
No, the one heal a round rule stands, but there is a bonus later to allow for what you say
>>
No. 54868 ID: e3aff6

When deciding on how to spend our CU, I think we should first look for the powerful people in this stage and scan them, so we will have a vague idea of what we might be up against.
>>
No. 54882 ID: e3aff6

When the 1-ups say 'limit 1 per customer', is that a limit for buying them now or for buying them now or any future stage?
>>
No. 54883 ID: c811c4

>>54882
That's the limit for buying them on this stage
>>
No. 54884 ID: e3f578

Shopkeeper can change the rules at will
He's kind of a dick hypocrite, bugfixing after people may have tried (and have already been successful) breaking the game.

Chief would have all that cash and been a huge dick with his method. Sure, it would have been patched like it just has now, but the result would be far more unfair.

Just let people break the game shopkeeper, jeez.
>>
No. 54885 ID: 953355
File 133732052924.png - (16.76KB , 700x700 , 133732014506.png )
54885

>>
No. 54886 ID: c811c4

>>54885
Lagotrope Makes Mistakes Everywhere: The Quest
>>
No. 54887 ID: 5029d1

took off the strap and was about to give iso the goods.
>>
No. 54888 ID: c6ec33

>>54849
Disarm appears to have at least 3 ranks, if not 5. What do the rank increases do to Disarm? Increase the number of turns someone is disarmed?

Also, for protector's half damage boon, what happens if you have two people protecting each other? Do they both take half damage? Does it create an infinite loop of damage reduction until we hit 0 and the damage fizzles?

(For how that last one works, here's an example: A gets hit for 10 points, B is protecting them with the 50% damage boon, and takes 5 instead. A is also protecting B with the 50% boon, so A takes 2.5 damage, rounded, then B takes half of that... etc.)

And, what happens if protection is stacked, so that a single person is protected by multiple people?

And, was Duelist's ability to protect 2 people a unique boon? It appears to not be for sale in this stage.
>>
No. 54889 ID: 04b86a

>>54887
I didn't notice there was anything wrong with the picture until I saw your post. Then I looked back at >>54886 and actually had to go check if Lagotrope had forgotten to draw the straps.

>>/quest/413415
The nice thing about this addition to the plan is that it isn't really abusable by other groups, as it requires resurrection. The only people that will have that, in turn, are people who have similar desires to Alison's, which means that we could just make friends with them. Hmm, really, I guess that's abusable without even having the multiplier from having two extra lives. Do the extra life trick, give them the CU from that and kill them again, keep repeating until your resurrect queue is up to 9 (or whatever you have time for), run through the rest of the extra life tricks, then resurrect people as possible and finish dividing the CU once you're done. Sure, the people that die for this method won't have as much CU as the people in the later portions, but they'll probably be strong enough for it to not matter anyway.

You know something? I really didn't realize resurrection had so much CU creating potential when we got it. I blame Chief's self-absorb gambit.
>>
No. 54890 ID: c811c4

>>54888
Disarm increases range per rank, starting at 0, so rank 3 would have a range of 2.

Protection gives +1 targets you can protect at once, and +1 range per rank. Rank one starts at 1 target and 0 range.

As for stacking the protection, only one person can protect a single person. If two people try to protect the same, then the person with higher protect levels will be the protector. If that is tied, then whoever has more combined armor/body. If that is tied, then whoever has more spent CU. If that is tied, then it's a random chance.

For people using protect on someone using protect on someone who takes damage, the damage will be passed along until no one is protecting the last person the damage is passed to. Halving damage only comes into effect after the damage would be dealt, so it will only happen once.

Also, a full protection loop would loop back to the original person. A protector cannot redirect the same attack on the same person from the same attacker twice in one round.
>>
No. 54891 ID: b9e291

>>/quest/413425

At the risk of giving Lagotrope Ideas, I'm pretty sure CU stands for "Computational Units." That is to say, objects that are more powerful have more computing resources. I'm guessing CU are tied to an actual resource, and if they are then they'll never be completely free.

That said it should be quite well possible to revive whoever's worth reviving. They might be able to decrease their CU cost too, once the need for ridiculously aggressive abilities is passed. I guess it just seems to me that the real point of this quest intermission is to find the nature of the environment, why things are the way they are, and how to get to programming that genetic algorithm ourselves to actually do some good.

For example, you could use CU to order a second server that effectively doubles the CU supply. Too meta?
>>
No. 54892 ID: c6ec33

Do Body/Weapon/Armor cap at 20?

I just realized that if they don't... and if we can choose to do 0 damage during a duel... we can still do massive credit farming using the extra life method. And it's all 100% legit by the revised rules.

For example:

We currently have 7,653 CU.

We spend 100 to buy Victim #1 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We give the rest of the CU to Victim #1.
Victim #1 spends *every single CU* on upgrading themself. Let's say that puts them around 8,000 CU.
Alison kills and absorbs Victim #1, gaining 8000 CU.
Victim #1 respawns using the resurrection token.
We spend 70 to buy another white glove.
We kill and absorb Victim #1 a *second* time, gaining another 8,000 CU.
We now have ~16,000 CU (-70 for a white glove).
We spend 100 to buy Victim #2 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We hand ~16,000 to victim #2.
Victim #2 spends *every single CU* on upgrading themself. At this point, things are getting hard to track, so let's say that puts them around ~16,000 CU.
Alison kills and absorbs Victim #2, gaining ~16,000 CU.
Victim #2 respawns using the resurrection token.
We spend 70 to buy another white glove.
We kill and absorb Victim #2 a *second* time, gaining another ~16,000 CU.
We now have ~32,000 CU.
We spend 100 to buy Victim #3 a resurrect.
We spend 70 to buy Allison a white glove.
We give the rest of the CU to Victim #3...

etc.

Eventually, we will cap out at some ridiculous number, as we're doubling each time.

Let's say we cap out around 8 victims.
After 3 victims: 64k CU
After 4 victims: 128k CU
After 5 victims: 256k CU
After 6 victims: 512k CU
After 7 victims: 1024k CU
After 8 victims: 2048k CU (That's 2,048,000 CU)

However, the last person only gets absorbed ONCE. We then use that amount (2048k) to resurrect all previous victims. This is doable because we're doubling each time, so the point values off all the previous victims combined is still less than the value of the last victim.

Additionally, if we really wanted to... we could resurrect a number of guys from our stash of dead allies to help with this project. People like Recluse, Catatonic, Scanner, etc. This could push our totals even higher.

Theoretically, if we keep going, we could acquire enough CU that if the last person was willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good (and live within us as a spirit with no promise of resurrection. ever), we could acquire enough CU to resurrect literally every person that is accessible via our recursive absorption.

The main risk inherent in this plan (assuming Lago allows us to do it at all) is that we would be creating exponentially more powerful godlike characters (what the fuck do you even do if a character with 2 million points says "nah, I don't want to help anymore"?).

Also, because Alison is just a resurrection facilitator, she would not actually become powerful herself unless we do get the last person to do a noble sacrifice and we have some CU left over after resurrecting *everyone*.
>>
No. 54895 ID: a9298b

>>54892
We would need to be excruciatingly careful doing this considering we're giving people huge amounts of money and then putting them in a position where they could kill Alison.

Also we can still do this plan regardless of whether or not zero damage can be dealt in duels. So long as we can get opponents to invest the CU in abilities rather than stats enough that Alison can still take them down in a straight duel. Though we'll probably still need to increase her stats at least a little to avoid mutual kills.

As far as actually resurrecting people now, this stage only has four exits, so we'd have to reabsorb most people that we bring back before we exit this stage or it would be a waste of CU.
>>
No. 54897 ID: 09e5bf

>>54893
We're giving huge amounts of CU to other people, letting them know the next guy will be twice as strong as they are, and having them actually die, relying on good faith that we'll bring them back after everything is done.

This is an almost guaranteed recipe for betrayal.
>>
No. 54898 ID: 256d52

>>54892

We can get CU for Alison by having someone who already has an extra life buy an extra one and then use one of their two lives to respawn.
>>
No. 54900 ID: 04b86a

>>54892
Actually, what you just described sounds just like my idea here: >>54889

Which, in turn, I noticed a problem with here, although you seem to have noticed it yourself and let Alison settle for the start-up CU: >>/quest/413433

However, now that I'm looking at it again, I'm noticing another problem, in that that 2048k is only enough to resurrect either all but the eighth person, with the start-up to spare, or the eighth person alone, meaning we'd have to have all but two of those two-life persons fully killed, or all but one and then have Alison absorbed. Or, of course, all but one and leave Alison with just the start-up CU to empower herself with.

Of course, the ultimate problem with it is Bandit will probably object to any plan like this that relies on Resurrection, for reasons stated here: >>54889


>>54897
This has one possible solution, though its effectiveness would depend on the person: tell them that just offering to let them do this means we consider them part of our team, which means we'll do everything within reason to keep them safe. Within reason meaning we might ask them to make a suicide charge like we did against Chief, but that even then only if its something we'd be willing to do ourself.
>>
No. 54901 ID: a9298b

assuming anyone can buy an extra life on this stage and not just the original forty entrants, reviving some currently dead people beforehand, rather than reviving a currently living person after you've killed them, might be less risky and more profitable, particularly with the last person.
>>
No. 54904 ID: 886a4d

>>54892
Mmmm I don't like it, this would mean the balance of power would be in the hands of the last person to do use that resurrect as the well the fact that I think your math is a bit off. 2^8 - 2^7 is not enough to resurrect 2^7 worth of people. The good thing about the previous 1 up burn plan that ShopKeep buggered is it would have allow us to distrubte CU evenly after the effect.

I much prefer that we stick to a 1-up-burn plan that lets everyone be mostly equal. That is the one outlined here >>/quest/413307 with the extra 1-up peeps increasing the output.

Heres a slight modification to the plan to prevent anyone deciding to become the new Chief. We double the CU then double it again using Succubus and Healer to do so. That will give us 28k. Of that 28k. If we decide to we can up that to 112 if we want to risk big lizard or Twila running off with the CU. Though Isuggest if we do try and trust them we hold 2-4k in reserve. After we give all of it to our inner circle to be killed and 1-up'd. Then we distribute 10k to each of the other members to be killed and 1-up'd. Allison should spend 14k before anything so she can take out the others during a duel should they get uppity. That way if some of the others do revolt for some reason we can actually stand against them instead of being overwhelmed. 10k would be enough to be twice as powerful as Chief and they are used to having someone be so much mroe powerful then them. Allison would be slightly less powerful then the rest of the inner circle due to spending money on resurrects, one ups and white gloves but that would be quickly made up as she kills true enemies.
>>
No. 54908 ID: b0d466

>>54904
Having everyone be mostly equal is the best course of action, I agree.

Was Iso able to do 0 damage in the duel?
>>
No. 54909 ID: c6ec33

Note that as originally written, the goal of the plan I detailed was just to create incredibly powerful allies. If we want Alison to be super-powerful as well, we have to absorb the last guy twice. This becomes a lot better if our last guy already has never used their 1-up, for a total of 2 1-ups. But if we don't, then the last person would have to become a sacrifice so that Allison could become powerful and have enough CU left-over to resurrect a large chunk of previously-dead people.

The real question is, after we absorb everyone, how many dead people we'll be carrying around thanks to the Retroactive boon, and how much it would cost to resurrect them all.

My ultimate goal is some kind of ending where we say "fuck the system", become super-powerful, AND bring everyone else back.

>>54895
Yes, that's the drawback. On the plus side, we can do this with just our MOST TRUSTWORTHY guys and still get a tens of thousands of CU out of it.

>>54900
Ah, you're right - When I first read your comment, I didn't understand what you were saying (yay for low amounts of sleep). On the plus side, I think the more-detailed explanation of the plan should be a bit more straight-forward and understandable by everyone, if a little long-winded by comparison. :)

>>54904
2^x = 2^(x-1) + 2^(x-2) ... + 2(1) + 2(0). The last person is worth 2^x, so absorbing them once can allow us to resurrect everyone before them. However, we'd also be a little off due to limitations in how we can spend our CU.
>>
No. 54910 ID: c6ec33

(Lago, can you clarify whether or not duels can be done with someone doing 0-damage attacks?) :)

Also, we should test whether or not previously-dead people can buy 1ups in this stage. Talk to Catatonic and Recluse while sleeping, explain things, and ask if they'll help. I'm guessing the answer will be yes. The CU cost to bring them back probably doesn't matter, since if it doesn't work, we can just kill and reabsorb them. It's in their interest to be re-absorbed, since it'll allow us to maximize the amount of CU we exploit better, guaranteeing us a stage-win, and them another resurrection later.
>>
No. 54915 ID: 04b86a

>>54909
>2^x = 2^(x-1) + 2^(x-2) ... + 2(1) + 2(0). The last person is worth 2^x, so absorbing them once can allow us to resurrect everyone before them.
Except the last person we absorb is only worth as much as we got from the person before them if we only absorb them once, i.e. 2^(x-1). We'd need a second absorption of that person in order to double it and get 2^x.
>>
No. 54921 ID: c811c4

>>54910
Ack, yes, that keeps slipping out of the updates. Yes, 0 damage is able to be done in a duel.
>>
No. 54925 ID: c811c4
File 133737752776.png - (51.03KB , 1211x492 , stagesafezone4Stats.png )
54925

>>
No. 54932 ID: 431fa8

What is the cost of the knockback boon? It's not listed.
>>
No. 54938 ID: c811c4

>>54932
150 CU
>>
No. 54941 ID: fdad59

The minor and major modify body purchases are also missing their prices.
>>
No. 54942 ID: c811c4

>>54941
Minor is 5 CU, Major is 30 CU

Apologizes for all the missing data
>>
No. 54943 ID: fdad59

>>54942
Thanks. Also, is there supposed to be a prerequisite for the scan boon "quad scan?"
>>
No. 54944 ID: c811c4

>>54943
Oh, yes, triple scan was supposed to be the prereq there.
>>
No. 54945 ID: 5c94e7
File 133740566153.png - (9.69KB , 348x294 , Untitled.png )
54945

>>413596
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/410682.html#413596
>Tell Recluse that you seem to be turning into a combination of him and Chief.
That reminds me, last thread I noticed how this storyline seemed perfect for a mythology, as Alison and Recluse made for an ideal Life God/Death God duality combo with respect to their abilities and worldviews.
Then Chief came along and killed Recluse, then then Alison managed to kill Chief, then Bandit managed to destroy Chief, then you point out that Alison is combining together the mythical portfolios of Life, Death, and whatever Chief represents.
I don't know of any preexisting myths that these events could fit in, so I'm just muddling along for fun until inspiration strikes.
>>
No. 54947 ID: 04b86a

>>54945
I actually see a lot of symbolism in her last chest.

The first boon she could choose was Ghost, which while not really bringing people back to life would still let them exist beyond death. That would have made her a God of the Dead, presiding over the afterlife.

The second choice would have encouraged her to kill people in order to empower herself in ways that simple absorption cannot, a trait that Recluse found desirable. Had she chosen that, she would have become a God of Death.

The last choice was the power to restore life to those that have lost it, making her a God of Life. That, of course, was the one we chose, despite protests from certain people.

When you look at it like that, it raises the notion that the chest was either testing her, to see which path she would choose to go down if given the choice, or offering her a solid choice, to clarify the path she wanted (Ghost vs Resurrection) or to go down a different path altogether (Ability Absorb). That choosing life still ended up encouraging her to kill is rather interesting, but I suppose the real effect is that it paints her reason for killing in a different light. The fact that each choice would have permanently shaped her personality in different ways also reinforces the idea of there being some deeper meaning to the offer.

Of course, in the comment you quoted I said that she's combining Recluse's and Chief's methodologies. In other posts I've mentioned that I want to find the Ghost boon again, and that we'll need to stop taking new members because of time limitations on resurrection. What I didn't mention is it's also because bringing too many people also keeps our group from gaining CU fast enough to really keep up with other players. I suppose you can say that now I want her to take in the other two domains as well. I guess that, thinking about things further, any of the three boons would have led to this simply because we knew the others were out there; they just determined how fast we got to this state of mind, and how easy it would be to get people to accept us.
>>
No. 54961 ID: c811c4
File 133743357818.png - (44.57KB , 1211x475 , stagesafezone4Stats3.png )
54961

>>
No. 54976 ID: 5c94e7

>>54947
There is a key difference to keep in mind between Death and Dead. A god of Death would be a grim-reaper character who collects the souls of mortals so that they may be transported to the afterlife rather than being lost forever. A God of the Dead would be the one that influences or controls the beings and surroundings of the afterlife.
>>
No. 54982 ID: b0d466

Just realized where I THINK Iso got his name from.

al ISO n
>>
No. 55004 ID: 09e5bf

I just realized bandit is not listed as having knockback, despite having used it three times.
>>
No. 55008 ID: c811c4

>>55004
Noted, thanks for the catch
>>
No. 55018 ID: c811c4
File 133754912835.png - (8.22KB , 700x700 , chief1.png )
55018

It starts predictably. Him and 10 others, 5 exits. He rolled around for a bit, and made a dash when a blob exited and a portal removed. He didn't care much for the ability to communicate early on, as odd as it sounds. So he got body and saved the remaining CU.

Then the second stage had his partner. He thought he was supposed to work with him, for some reason, and quickly did a 180, wishing he could talk. Nevertheless, things didn't work out, and the Chief dropped the 'partner' and got his chest with an absorption skill line.
>>
No. 55019 ID: c811c4
File 133754915344.png - (317.90KB , 700x700 , chief2.png )
55019

He continued on, now keeping a mere 1 body, and just enough CU to get all the communication. Lucky enough, his partner could be worked with in preliminary stage 3, and both of them lucked out with the stage and could get a chest. The Chief mentioned his absorb ability, and they decided to commune CU so that he could share it. The last part of the stage had several people converging, as with Alison's. He and his partner were able to stay in distance and absorb a few. At that level, he was only getting around 5 CU per absorb, and hung back dangerously long. There was 1 exit left when they both jumped in, splitting the CU reward. The absorb barely paid for that split.

He found the one ups in the cabinet, of course. He had also found others' one ups in another room. Another 15 CU there, as he managed to gouge the extra life missers from it.
>>
No. 55020 ID: c811c4
File 133754917613.png - (156.92KB , 700x700 , chief3.png )
55020

Stage 1 was when things began spiraling up in his favor. Level 2 absorption and terrible stats, he heads into the platform race. There was some possibility for fighting, moreso than wits but not as much as the arena, but where things got good was that the platforms had effects. And when the platforms had effects, he had absorption range. So even when he didn't directly drop others, he absorbed them. 4, to be exact, each giving out 14 to 20 CU as he recalls. Others were impressed or ticked off, but the Chief offered a share of absorbed CU to those who would protect him through the end of the stage. By looking out for him, they looked out for their own CU gains that many had missed absorption over.

He didn't manage to find a chest, but the last part of the stage worked wonderfully. He and his partner, the latter of whom managed to get through the stage of wits with a chest, told them that elevators can be overfilled if they enter it on the same turn. So it would be safe, he said, to wait a bit, and kill some stragglers for some CU. Although he still had range 2, spending just a bit more on armor and body and giving the rest to his newly formed allies, that was enough to gather nearly every straggler. Of the 3 allies he gained, only one was slain, but the others weakened. With 2 elevators left, he said that the CU reward was cut out. If one of them wanted to kill each other, he would split the CU absorbed for that as usual, plus the winner would have the full CU reward. The CU being cut out was a lie of course, but the Chief was obviously no saint. At absorbing 3 people for the race, 3 people in the final area and one of his allies all with rank 2 absorb, he ended up with having under 300 CU after managing to scrape by giving only around 40 CU to his allies as tokens of his thanks. A rip off to be sure, yet 20 CU apiece was still a difference between life and death, a fact he could justify with with promise of more returns later.
>>
No. 55021 ID: c811c4
File 133754919328.png - (7.66KB , 700x700 , chief4.png )
55021

The Chief says she could say was plain addicted to absorbing. Not like the recluse who did it for getting ghosts, but for CU and lots of it. Going into the stage safe zone of 2, he only had himself and 2 allies.

He wanted more, and wanted more allies to help him absorb more. Few could compete with a level 3 absorb, and he talked to every individual he could. All 100, minus those who entered the stage right off the bat. Most, of course, declined, but showing his numbers, and his ability to give precious CU to his followers, managed to get 18 under his name. He did say that most would not even make it to the final area unfortunately, so the stage exits would not be an issue, and everyone under his name could cross through.

It was also here that he took a nap, realizing he could talk to the deceased. And he did, aside from the imprints of their memories, he talked about their experiences. About other people who made groups but had run into bad luck, or simple soloers that had varying degrees of success. He learned a lot, and tended to treat those stories as his own experience. It didn't feel like a lie, given the nature of having absorbed the ones with the experience.
>>
No. 55022 ID: c811c4
File 133754921331.png - (188.52KB , 650x700 , chief5.png )
55022

As with anyone of his stature, luck was on his side. His enemies on the disappearing wave platforms of stage 2 had the courtesy of dropping one at a time, allowing for the absorption of every one of them. A solid 50 to 70 CU for each 3 of them. With that and a chest of 40 CU, he afforded himself, with no small amount of fear for his life, a level 5 absorption.

The same manner in which Alison absorbed several individuals for name of friendship, he did moreso in the name of survival.

10 exits. The first part of the stage had a survival rate of a bit under 50%. Around 9 or 10 of his group, and a few dozen others. He waited, holding the line and recruiting a few more individuals, and absorbed 25 times besides, 25 which includes all of the people he absorbed twice for using their extra lives, perhaps only around 17 or 18 actual individuals. At 75-100 CU or thereabouts per rank 5 absorption, he gained around 2000 CU. A few of his group were slain, and a few individuals had made it to the exit before the Chief got there. His original partner was slain here as well. There he gained his reputation for killing his own group. A couple that he did not personally trust and were rather weak besides. 7 of his group made it through the remaining 7 exits. He gives everyone somewhere between 100 and 150 CU for their trouble, depending on usefulness and loyalty. Less of a rip off, and yet he assures them that now he can carry his own weight. And it was true, he had around 1600 CU for himself by this point. He called his group loyal, and would protect them himself. After all, at this point, most stages at least had options to get into platforms of which battling was avoidable, and reserved for the final area. And he would be at those areas to help them fight.
>>
No. 55023 ID: c811c4
File 133754925623.png - (25.44KB , 900x700 , chief6.png )
55023

Come stage 3, the rumors of him went through. His own posse spoke of him, and the rumors got more and more elaborate he was sure. Perhaps some in his group thought ill behind his back, and merely didn't backstab him because of the CU rewards for helping him, or the likely chance that they would be slain after trying to kill the Chief, or a myriad of other issues mixed with their want of survival. He spent some time in the casino, not just to gain CU, which he gained a hundred or two of, but to talk to everyone before they threw their money away. To tell them to join him for a chance and such things. There were 40 exits, and given the half survival rates just to get to the end portal, which ended up being even worse for that stage, he says that he could hold up to 80 people without anyone having to fight within the group for an exit space. Even if there was a bit more than 80 in his party, they would have to really screw up for the chief to decide to absorb, and that's a small price to pay for what is practically a guaranteed ride through the final area.

He wasn't even positive how many he had before stage 3 started. He delegated a lot of the recruiting. The succubus, met in stage 2, proved worthwhile a few times over with her ability to convert a good deal of members.

Not everyone, of course. Mongrel, Bandit and the Recluse had no interest. Some of his absorptions led him to believe that Alison would be nothing but trouble and competition as well, but there was no point in stirring trouble in a safe zone.
>>
No. 55024 ID: c811c4
File 133754929861.png - (59.04KB , 700x700 , chief7.png )
55024

Come stage 3. Level 7 absorb. 8 people in the first section, 4 people in the second. 6 people absorbed in the first section, 3 people in the second. Big lizard was the one person that he didn't absorb, being a member of his posse. Chief saved his life there, as well. The chest at the end of the second granted him access to the Range line, while he had bought the scan line from the shopkeep in stage 3. He was on the high track, and felt like nothing could go wrong despite the reasonable voices in his mind saying that he wasn't invincible. Alison was there, and his allies horribly out of place, but he was strong. He knew how much he skyrocketed in stage 2's end, and even the first areas of stage 3 were immense. How much, he wondered, he could gather at the end of stage 3 provided Alison's group couldn't best him. The answer, monumental amounts of CU if he could pull it off. His pedestal was the highest, and rising the fastest. Then the bandit. His skill line that seems as though it was made to be pitted against him. Everything flipped in two turns, and he was at the bottom, as Alison should know. Before his head stopped spinning, his own group, never given any reason by the chief to look past their own survival, turned on him.

And that is the summation.
>>
No. 55029 ID: b9e291

Poor Chief. Had to go through all that because of the stupid game. Well at least he learned something.
>>
No. 55032 ID: 5c94e7

If Chief had been true to the rumors, then he would have had a few companions who helped convince people to serve him, and then assist in slaughtering them in each level by pincering them.
THAT would have been an unstoppable Chief, even if his key companions had already been absorbed or split away.
>>
No. 55047 ID: 699da6

good thing our peeps foght with us for the power of friendchips.
>>
No. 55180 ID: 886a4d

I miss Alison already ... is it bad that I wish this was a main storyline instead of a side-story?
>>
No. 55182 ID: 082302

Well it is sort of a side-quest. For a side-quest. Point is that maybe well eventually get a super awesome Hok Polo Alison team up.
>>
No. 55183 ID: 5c94e7

>>55182
I get the oddest feeling that he stopped Three-Stripes and Asteroid And Intermission quest to do unnatural Selection because whatever results from that one effects the rest.

If there's one thing Lagotrope is good at, it's time travel.
I can't think of any professional writers who could have handled time travel shenanigans as well as this guy.
>>
No. 55196 ID: 886a4d

Well my guess is that Unnatural Selection is selecting personalities for the C.A.I. It`s the only thing that makes sense as a side quest.
>>
No. 55198 ID: 082302

>>55196
Unless we underestimated Rokoa's insanity. This is her subconscious, everytime she makes a decision she has to create a million individual and sentient personalities, and have them undergo 100 trials of survival. The winning sentient being gets to decide cereal or oatmeal before being whisked off into oblivion, from which a new set of trials begins to decide milk or orange juice.
>>
No. 55199 ID: 57e7b0

Or this whole facility and such could have been some sort of giant genetics lab built by who knows to make all the crazy species on this planet. And now that whoever was in charge is gone its being taken over by the inhabitants.
>>
No. 55202 ID: e3aff6

>>55199
To me it looks less like generics lab then the result of somebody deciding to play Noah.
>>
No. 55273 ID: b9e291
File 133800056495.png - (75.36KB , 299x628 , coincidence or destiny?.png )
55273

This is called foreshadowing.
>>
No. 55288 ID: 082302

>>55273
i dont believe we ever planned to fuck a robot
>>
No. 55295 ID: c4a1fc

>>55273
palette swap*
>>
No. 55317 ID: bccf7b

>>55202

Salikai got bored? Yeah, sounds about right.
>>
No. 55323 ID: e3f578

>>55288
I know I had problems with that suggestion, but nonetheless I'm just surprised no one's drawn it yet at all

Or even just a Three Stripes harem with everyone in ho clothing and Three Stripes sporting a purple fedora, sunglasses and a Gold Bling necklace with a jeweled "3S" neckalace
>>
No. 55457 ID: e3f578

Theory: This Polo is actually a speed-grown clone made by Salikai to throw off Rokoa with all the memories and shit.

Or Polo is just having a really off day today.
>>
No. 55462 ID: b9e291

Theory: the Salikai swapped Polo and Rokoa's brains but they don't realize it
>>
No. 55475 ID: bccf7b

I should request it in the fan-art thread, yes, but...


I really wanna see a pouty-face Three Stripes doing making a heart with his huge meaty-hands at grumpy Polo!
>>
No. 55529 ID: 4594e2

Seems to me more like Three-Stripes' reaction to Polo is him simply not understanding that she's gone all grimdark after that last battle with Rokoa.
>>
No. 55537 ID: 886a4d

I hope the pause means we're going back to the other side quest... I miss Alison heh
>>
No. 55545 ID: e3aff6

This video reminded me quite a lot of the Allison chapters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S0qjK3TWZE8
>>
No. 55576 ID: c811c4
File 133848000115.png - (2.96KB , 645x145 , s4puzzleworks.png )
55576

By default, the numbers are added from left to right. If a small dot comes into play, however, then the math continues to the right, but subtracts the numbers that follow instead of add. A big dot changes this back to addition.

In the case to the right, it starts as 2, adds 3 to get 5. Then a small dot is encountered, so the 5 is subtracted by 4 and then 1, to get back to 0. Then a large dot comes, so the 0 is added by the last 2, to get a final number of 2.

In Stage 4's area, one has to get the final number to equal the row's distance from the starting position, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 respectively from bottom to top.
>>
No. 55626 ID: 886a4d

So Stage ShopKeep has 100 body/armor and 60 attack which he can split between 3 people which each can knockback 3 steps in any direction he chooses. And he can do this twice in a turn.... ya definately not meant to be beat. Furthermore he has first strike rank 4... which means you can't even get a drop on him. I think the only way to kill him would be to get him to agree to die by doing 0 damage or not attacking back.
>>
No. 55744 ID: e3d099

>>55626

Well yes, Alison killed the Shopkeep once in a white glove duel where he agreed to do 0 damage. He also has the Persistence ability, which means when he is killed he does not die. Whether he died when Alison's group left for the next zone remains to be seen.
>>
No. 55805 ID: b85f8c

>>55626
Actually he has 120 body/armor and 80 attack. The Fortify is +20 per rank on top of his already-20 stats.
>>
No. 55809 ID: c811c4
File charGen.swf - (12.01KB , 800x800 )
55809

Originally I wasn't intending on sharing these, so please excuse the messy GUI, much like I would excuse a messy house for spontaneously invited guests. Messy as it is, it should make calculations easier, any bugs aside.
>>
No. 55810 ID: c811c4
File charGenTier2.swf - (6.91KB , 800x800 )
55810

And calculations for Tier 2.

Tier 2 Entry: 10,000 CU - Resets total CU spent. Tier 1 ranks and abilities will be available as normal, but not count towards the total CU spent.

Fortifications effectively give +20 to their respective statistic per rank.

Split Damage lets the user split their damage evenly to +1 targets per rank, but the targets must be on the same tile.

First Strike allows the user to hit the target first, and if the target dies from that attack, the user will not get hit from the target's intended attack. Each additional rank allows an additional target to get struck first, but is only useful if the user can attack that many targets (via split damage, double attacks, etc.)
>>
No. 55812 ID: c811c4

In case it wasn't clear, the 10k entry fee to Tier 2 has to be purchased before any of the tier 2 abilities can be bought.
>>
No. 55822 ID: c811c4
File 133892168777.png - (11.90KB , 1685x85 , ssf5stats.png )
55822

>>
No. 55839 ID: fdad59

I've been wondering something about the Safe Zones: How destructible are they? I mean, we know the characters won't take damage while in the Safe Zone, but are there parts of the Safe Zone that are indestructible? Because I'm thinking that if the Safe Zone is obliterated, everyone in it would end up falling into the void, effectively keeping them from passing through the level gate. It could also remove a Shopkeep if the ground is removed from under him, all the way down and out of the Safe Zone.

I'm also wondering how robust the physics simulation is in this world. I know in the past I've crashed out Gmod by giving objects physical values that would be impossible in the real world. Stuff like negative coefficients of rotational friction, which results in an object that just keeps rotating faster and faster until it causes a variable overflow. There's also spawning in massive numbers of objects into the same spot, all at once. That'll bring a system to its knees. What I'm thinking is that if we can get a hold of something that can alter the physical properties of this world's matter, or can create an unlimited amount of new matter, either one could crash the system.
>>
No. 55846 ID: 256d52

>>55839

Wouldn't that, you know, basically kill everyone?
>>
No. 55851 ID: fdad59

>>55846
Probably, but it's not for certain. I don't think we know what happens to a character if they fall into the void in safe zone space. Are they instantly destroyed, teleported back to the safe zone, or just fall until the clock runs out?

Anyway, perhaps capturing the mechanism the System uses to construct safe zones could be used to make materials for other, more useful things. Something like a portable warp drive jump pack, so a character could jump across the void to visit other safe zones.
>>
No. 55853 ID: 132b99

>>55851
what? no not the void falling the crashing the system, which everyone LIVES IN.
>>
No. 55855 ID: fdad59

>>55853
...Oh, right. Uh. Normally I'd say safe zone space is compartmentalized, so one crashing wouldn't screw everything else up, but considering what we've seen I wouldn't want to risk testing that. Actually, any potential weapons of mass destruction should not be attempted. Even if they should only destroy one safe zone, it's likely to cause system-wide instability.

That said, if we ever do find the place where those who are in charge of the System are, having something that could be tossed in to lag them to hell would be nice. A whole mess of indestructible spheres with negative coefficients of friction 'ported in would do nicely.
>>
No. 55857 ID: a00410

uh were did the quest go?
>>
No. 55858 ID: a00410

>>55857
derp
>>
No. 55899 ID: e3aff6

Hmm, I just remembered something. Remember Mongrel, that crazy, backstabbing guy who killed us that one time? He had a boon to double the CU from people he killed, which would be extremely useful if only he were not still probably too crazy to trust. (By backstabbing, I mean he backstabbed and absorbed one of Chief's group when they 'teamed up' against us.) We might want to ask if anyone in the Corruptor's group has that ability, or if Mongrel is unique in that respect.
>>
No. 55900 ID: 886a4d

Pity there is no boon of boon absorbtion heh.
>>
No. 55923 ID: 886a4d

I've been thinking of ways to defeat the Judges other then straight up combat. Here's a few thoughts.

The Stage 3 part 1 has those movable blocks that you can push at people aand it does body / 2 damage. If we can pick one of those up and bring them to a chest area and use our rather prodigious body stat to throw them during our move phase we can do 180 damage just for Allison alone at our move phase and then attack normally.

The second idea depends on if they aren`t knockback immune. Knock them down to the puzzle area and pull the switch or simply scatter them so the puzzle rules come in effect and they have to group up in order to exit. We can run from the puzzle then.

Finally there is exploiting the fact that we know the equations to body and armor. What if instead of being a hard cap at level 20 body / armor / weapon it instead merely no longer shows what it costs to advance so everyone thinks that you can no longer get more levels in it. Alison should try and put 716 CU into her body stat which should raise it to 25.
>>
No. 55990 ID: c6ec33

One thing I think that has fallen by the wayside: The way the system is set up, it seems better to specialize our allies right now than to make them jacks of all trades.

Sure, the jack-of-all-trades approach was valid when we were all getting split up and had to meet up again later. But now that we're talking about Judges being one of our main foes, it seems like those are structured to be group fights, and we should try to stat out our group appropriately.

We should probably maximize Duelist's protection potential by loading him up on protection boons and focusing on his health and armor first and foremost. Some boons that come to mind as especially useful are T1 Ability Protection and some immunities, so that Duelist doesn't get slammed by things like knockback.

Alison is our absorber/resurrector, so maxing out her absorb boons is probably a good idea. Keep in mind that we can ressurect allies *in combat*, so as long as we can overpower any attempts to counter our resurrections, we can have a potentially infinitely-regenerating supply of allies.

Recluse... should probably be specced out as our heavy hitter. We should try to max out his attack, range, and whatever other boons seem good for a guy focused on DPS.

Scanner's scan ability is useful, but I'm not quite sure what to do with her, since scan boons take up a LOT of boon space.

Also, without bringing in more people, we lack a dedicated healer, which might be useful. We should consider our next 100k member to be a max-spec'd healer with a bunch of healing boons.

All in all, more teammates would be better. :)
>>
No. 56032 ID: 04b86a

>>54890
A question on Protection loops. You said it'll loop back around to the person the damage was meant for, but will the damage still be halved?
>>
No. 56033 ID: 04b86a

I think we need to start setting up a specific formation for Judge Hunting teams when we're able to. Here are the basic stats I'm recommending right now, assuming they don't have any of the boons or Tier 2 unlock, and already have all of the needed Tier 1 stats maxed:

Two Protectors:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage/F.Heal

Scan Immunity I-VIII
Knockback Immunity I-III
Protection: Half Damage
Protection: Ability Protection
Protection: Split Damage
Heal: Movement
Heal: Mini
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
Protection: Attack Interruption
Protection: Fortification I-VI
Protection: Scatter Damage Cancelation I-III
Heal: Double
Heal: Overcharge
First Strike: Priority I-II
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Access: Tier 2
Access: Fortified Heal
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II
Delimiter

Spent: 752900 (Each)

One Scanner:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage

Scan Immunity I-VI
Scan: Spent CU
Scan: Unspent CU
Scan: Ability Levels
Scan: Double
Scan: Absorption Number
Scan: Triple
Scan: Scan Boons
Scan: Quadruple
Scan: All Scans
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
First Strike Priority I-II
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Absorb: Priority I
Scan: Strengthen I-X
Double Attack
Access: Tier 2
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II
Delimiter

Spent: 719370

One Other, specializing in Platform Block:
Max Ranks in F.Body/F.Armor/F.Weapon/First Strike/Scatter Damage

Scan Immunity I-X
Absorb: Retroactive
Absorb: Double
Inventory Space I-II
First Strike: Priority I-V
Scatter Damage: Leftovers
Absorb: Priority I-III
Scan: Platform Block I-X
Double Attack
Access: Tier 2
Extra Boons I-II
Fortified Extra Boons I-II
Delimiter

Spent: 726440

Total CU needed: 2,951,630, plus whatever's needed to get Tier 1 up to snuff. I also recommend everyone in the group have a Red Glove and Glove Scissors on hand and Duel any Judges that have Protect, and that they coordinate who absorbs whom before they attack. Note that the fourth person still has six Tier 1 boon slots available, so they can actually not take Extra Boons I and II to save 70k CU. Furthermore, should the Scanner decide they want Heal: Move or Heal: Mini, they can just trade in some Scan Immunities for those. The immunities are more to annoy the Judges than to provide any practical benefit.

And, yes, I realize putting 3 million CU into four people looks expensive, but keep in mind that if they get an average of 75k per Judge, they'll be able to pay themselves off after killing 40 Judges, or about 10 spawnings.
>>
No. 56039 ID: c811c4

>>56032
Yes, but the damage will only be halved once, no matter how many times it gets passed around.
>>
No. 56040 ID: 09e5bf

Could you get around protection by staggering first strikes to attack the protector before the rest of the team does their attacks?

Like Alison with say, the best first strike double attacks the protector judge. He dies, her extra damage transfers to the next judge, and then the rest of the party attacks the now unprotected remaining judges; all in one turn.
>>
No. 56043 ID: c811c4

Teleportation: Allows teleportation to a new tile, with a cooldown of 6 rounds. This is still dependant on light trails, however, and can be treated as a burst of extra movement.
Rank 1: Teleport range 1
Rank 2: Cooldown reduced to 5.
Rank 1: Teleport range 2
Rank 2: Cooldown reduced to 4.
Rank 1: Teleport range 3

Fortified Heal: Instead of attacking, the user may heal. This does not stack with the heal amounts from tier one Heal ability.
Rank 1: Heals 10 HP.
Rank 2: Heals 20 HP.
Rank 3: Heals 30 HP.
Rank 4: Heals 40 HP.
Rank 5: Heals 50 HP.

Shapeshift - Able to switch forms. This is an illusion, and touching the shapeshifter will reveal the users true form. It can be held for 10 rounds or 30 minutes in a safe zone.
Rank 1: May hold up to 1 minor change at a time.
Rank 2: May hold up to 2 minor changes at a time.
Rank 3: May hold up to 2 minor changes at a time, and one major body change.
Rank 4: Duration is increased to 15 rounds, or 45 minutes.
Rank 5: Duration is increased to 20 rounds, or 60 minutes.

Swap Position - During the move phase, but before any movement has been made, the user may swap a position with a willing target.
Rank 1 - Range 1
Rank 2 - Range 2
Rank 3 - Range 3
Rank 4 - Range 4
Rank 5 - Range 5
>>
No. 56045 ID: 09e5bf

So, since health and damage work in increments of 20 in tier two, fortified healing needs the double heal or overcharge heal boon to be as comparatively good as the original heal was in tier 1.
>>
No. 56046 ID: 886a4d

>>56043
Shapeshift sounds more like Disguise then true Shapeshifting... unless there are boons that turn the changes physical.

Teleportation sounds like Double Move would be upgraded.

Swap Position could be extremely useful with a healing team holding far back with reinforcements.
>>
No. 56047 ID: c811c4

>>56040
During an attack, certain things happen before or after. Most of what is to note here is that protection ends after all regular attacks, and THEN scatter: leftovers happens after that, no matter how much the person has in first strike who uses leftovers. So while scatter damage normally stacks with first strike, doing scatter damage: leftovers does not. The upside being that it bypasses protection (but only that does, regular attacks still won't be bypassed), the downside is that even if the leftovers kills the second target, the second target could still attack. Also, to note, leftovers will still be in effect even if its user was killed before. Think of it like skipping stones.

And lastly, since Scatter: Leftovers is an active part of Scatter: Damage, Protection: Ability willprotect against leftovers.

Scatter Damage Cancelation simply is for reducing the damage further for scatter damage targets.
>>
No. 56050 ID: 3bad4c

>>56043

What action do these require?
>>
No. 56054 ID: c811c4

>>56050
Teleport and swap position take up a move action, heal takes up an attack, and shapeshift doesn't replace anything, but takes a full round to activate, during which time the user can still do other things.
>>
No. 56070 ID: 8d0fee

You made me gay for three stripes. God damn it.
>>
No. 56088 ID: e3aff6

I just though of a really obvious maneuver we should have been doing with unit selection. Next time we are in town, we should white-glove Recluse, carry his CU with us, and rez him on the first turn once we get into a fight.

Also, I finally figured out how we can mostly safely test out an idea I have been wanting to try for a while. What I want to find out is what happens if someone drops off the edge of a safe zone (or digs through the bottom of one). How we would do it is we find two people we can rez who are willing to take a risk for pay, give them a white gloce and fasten them to each-other to ensure they won't be separated, then have them jump off. If they fall uneventfully for a predetermined length of time or are otherwise stuck, they can use the glove to mutual-kill eachother, so they can be recovered via resurrection.

On an unrelated note, what does the CREATE PLATFORM skill line do?
>>
No. 56089 ID: c811c4

>Create platform
My mistake, that shouldn't be available for purchase as of yet. Kindly ignore.
>>
No. 56104 ID: 886a4d

Judge hunting teams:

Statwise we should have two striker's per team, a scanner and a protector

Striker(Absorber and Protection Bypass):
Tier 1:

Max Absorb, Max Range, and Double Jump
Boons:

(Both)
Absorb Double

(Protector Denial)
Protector Bypass 1-6

Tier 2:
14 fort body
0 fort armor,
20 fort weap,
2 First Strike
1 Scatter

Boons:

Double Strike
Scatter: Left Overs
First Strike Priority 1-5

(Protector Denial)
Fort Protection Bypass 1-6

(Absorber)
Absorbtion Priority 1-8

Protector:
Tier 1:
Max Absorb, Max Range, Max Disarm, Max Protector, Double Jump

Boons:

Protection: Half Damage
Protection: Split Damage
Protection: Ability Protection
Protection: Target Platform

Tier 2:

18 Fort Body
17 Fort Armor
1 Weapon


Boons:
Fort Protection 1-6
Protection Attack Interruption
Scatter Damage Cancel 1-5

Scanner / Healer:
Tier 1
Max Weapon Range, Max Scan, Max Heal, Max Disarm, Max Absorb, Double Jump

All Scan Boons
Heal: Range 1-2
Heal: Movement
Heal: Mini

Tier 2:
9 Fort body
9 fort armor
9 fort weapon
1 first strike
1 scatter
5 fort heal

Scanner Strengthen 1-10
Heal: Double
Heal: Overcharge
First Strike Priority 1-3

For Bandit, Guardsman and Healer I suggest we do use delimeters to get to max tier 2 at the end of this time skip, but in the meantime they should average everything out since we cannot buy boons for them.
>>
No. 56106 ID: fb69eb

Thank you for not keeping your mile-long post in the main thread.

So I think this fight made it clear that we should get Alison some ranks in teleport. We came quite close to being unable to move away from Enforcer and getting killed.
>>
No. 56136 ID: b85f8c
File 133982837088.png - (12.96KB , 700x700 , whereareyourclothes.png )
56136

Because art mistakes like these deserve to be enshrined for all time.
>>
No. 56138 ID: 886a4d

I have a theory why Alison hugs everyone... her snake parts are part constrictor so her instincts say surround them, crush them to death, then eat them. It's also why she reacted so strongly to eating meat... once she starts she might not stop. Yum.
>>
No. 56141 ID: 71d68e

You know, I really like the Glitcher's weird anatomy. It just fits.
>>
No. 56152 ID: b0d466

>>56138
I like this explanation!

We can expand it to see this instinct at play when she deals with her enemies!
1)Surround them with love/allies
2)Defeat them utterly
3)Devour them (make them allies), so that they may fuel the hugmachine
>>
No. 56171 ID: c811c4

Immunity - Gains immunity against lower tier Abilities and Boons. With this at Rank 2, it can be seen as having all immunity boons at Tier 1 and 2.
Rank 1 - Immune to all Tier 1 abilities and boons, except for absorption.
Rank 2 - Immune to all Tier 2 abilities and boons, except for absorption.

Damage reduction - Reduces damage after all attacks have been made.
Rank 1 - 25% less damage
Rank 2 - 50% less damage
Rank 3 - 75% less damage

Increased damage
Rank 1 - 25%more damage
Rank 2 - 50%more damage
Rank 3 - 75% more damage
Rank 4 - 100% more damage

Item Cancelation - Provides a 3-range item cancellation barrier.
Rank 1 - Blocks up to 2 Tier-1 items per round.
Rank 2 - Complete immunity to tier 1 items, blocks 2 tier 2 items per round.
Rank 3 - Complete immunity to tier 1 and 2 items, blocks 1 Tier 3 item per round

T. 3 Range
Rank 1 - Range 1
Rank 2 - Range 2

Create Light Trail - Creates one light trail to a platform that has a gap of no more than 1.5 platform lengths.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns, range increases to 2.5

Block Light Trail - Blocks a light trail.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns

Create Platform - Creates one platform in the air that creates a gap of no more than 1.5 platforms between the user and the new platform.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns, range increases to 2.5

Remove Platform - Removes any platform. This is done during the movement phase, but after everyone has made normal movements. The platform, however, will not be removed until the beginning of the following round, before people move.
Rank 1 - Lasts for 1 turn
Rank 2 - Lasts for 2 turns
Rank 3 - Lasts for 3 turns

Tier 3 Protector - Same as Tier 1 protector.
Rank 1 - Able to target 1 person at up to 1 range, or everyone but himself on his/her current platform.
Rank 2 - Able to target 2 people at up to 2 range, or everyone but himself on a platform up to 1 range away. current platform.

Tier 3 Knockback
Rank 1 - Knocks its target one platform away from the attacker. If the attacker is on the same tile, the direction may be chosen.

Tier 3 Scan
Rank 1 - Able to see all Body/Armor/Weapon numbers, and owned abilities with at least 1 rank.
Rank 2 - Able to see all stats and boons.

Tier 3 Heal - Able to heal users on the same platform. This replaces the user's attack.
Rank 1 - 20 HP
Rank 2 - 40 HP
Rank 3 - 60 HP
Rank 4 - 80 HP
Rank 5 - 100 HP
>>
No. 56172 ID: 886a4d

Since I have no idea of curret stats current for non pre-mades costs will include everything for them.

Healer (~600k):

Boon slots
Delimeter

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 1
Max tier 2 heal
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All the Healer boons
Scanner Immunity 10, and Scan : Platform Block 10, First Strike 5, Inventory 5

Scanner (~605k):

Boon slots
Delimeter

Max Absorb

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 3
Scatter 2
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All the Scan Boons
Scanner Strengthen 10, First Strike Priority 4, Inventory Space 5

Recluse(~700k):

Boon slots
Delimeter

Max Scan

Max tier 2 fortification
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All scan boons, Absorb Priority 10, Double Attack, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 3


Iso(~400k)

Boon slots
Delimeter

Max Protector

Max tier 2 fortification
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

All Protection boons including fortification and scatter cancel, Inventory Space 5, First Strike Priority 3

Bandit(~300k)

Tier 2 Access
Delimeter

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Banditry
Max Scan
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 2
Scatter 2
Max Shapeshift
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

Protection Bypass 6, Protection Fort Bypass 6, Double Strike, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 5

Gaurdsman(~250k)

Tier 2 Access
Delimeter

Max tier 1 body \ armor \ weapon
Max Absorb
Max Range
Max Knockback
Max Disarm
Double Jump

Max tier 2 fortification
First Strike 2
Scatter 2
Max Teleportation
Max Swap Postition

Protection Bypass 6, Protection Fort Bypass 6, Double Strike, Scatter: Leftovers, First Strike Priority 5


Altogether they should cost around 3 million CU unless my calculations are way off. With Alison costing 14 million that leaves 5 million left over. Enough to get the two judge killing teams (About 1 million CU for 8 people I believe) up and pay back everyone who waived their pay.

Suggestions for the team stats are here >>56104 and lineups were suggested for the two teams as Sword, Shield, Strongarm, and Spear for team 1; and Twirl, Trihorn, Atlas and Charles for team two.
>>
No. 56180 ID: e3f578

People said in the main thread that they thought that the Enforcer would have his own working copy of Duelist.

If that's a working copy, couldn't we technically steal it? Or would then it get rended immediately, or the stem doesn't allow you to steal a copy of someone you already have, even if it's technically different thanks to it being rended?
>>
No. 56182 ID: c811c4

>>56180
Normally, that would work. However, Tier 3 players all have the same absorb priority, and Steal Ghost requires a higher absorb priority. In other words, it's an obsoleted boon.
>>
No. 56184 ID: 3bad4c

Has anyone figured out what the sanctuaries are yet? It sounds like some contestant is being turned into these things in some horrific method - either glitched body modification or glitched shapeshift.
>>
No. 56185 ID: 886a4d

The thing about Rend Ghost and recursive is that we might be getting EVERYONE that the Arbiter has rent in twain... leading us to more potential allies as well.
>>
No. 56186 ID: e3aff6

>>56184
It seems fairly unlikely that the glitched safe zones are made from contestants. The rules involving harming contestants still apply in the glitched zones, but chunks are carved out of the terrain (including the core) all the time.
>>
No. 56720 ID: 927efa
File 134137573220.jpg - (136.12KB , 966x783 , Albino_raven.jpg )
56720

Albinos have white fur. Neumono fur is not infused with iron rich blood, thus without coloring would be white not pink. True albino anything would have pink eyes (green if copper hemocyanin), and white fur/feathers. Just like Polo. (Except she's a little blueish.)

Generally albinism is a recessive trait, as "not making dye" happens when "genes don't work." So it shows up more (or even exclusively) in laboratory breeding programs, where genetic uniformity is more useful than genetic diversity and nobody really cares what color your fur is. Just like Polo.

Additionally, there is often more than one gene that produces what would be recognized as coloring, so being an albino isn't exactly black and white. Ignoring that blood has an oxygen transporting dye that cannot be broken in any viable fetus, some albino humans have freckles or even moles, and some albino ferrets have a very slight cream mask, despite the normal "sable" dye gene being busted. So maybe Polo has an unusual coloring that's one step short of albino. But probably not. We'd have to see if others in her "program" are practically identical in coloring to her or not.
>>
No. 56924 ID: 997ce7

I can't help but wonder if Rokoa's queen is also her mom.

If they were forced to spend a decade or two in the same house with their personalities, it'd explain Rokoa's massive mental issues, their hatred, and possibly Rokoa's being a latent hive queen, if such a thing is genetic.
>>
No. 56957 ID: c3c502

I was really thinking we were near the end for a bit there. And then it all went pear shaped and we were given the chance to dump Polo in horrible danger just because it looked interesting and would give us more Rokoa time, so naturally we all jumped on it. Sorry Polo, we really weren't putting you first there! We'll get you out of there alive if at all possible though, so don't worry.

In any event though, here's how it should have ended.

Right after >>/quest/430061, before we had a chance to say anything, Rokoa's reaction to her Queen's betrayal should have been:

>"Well, that's it. Fuck 'em, I'm going tribal again."
"What."
>"And you're coming with me, Coffee Cake!"
"WHAT."

And then Rokoa bodily drags Polo off to live in the woods away from pesky war hives and secret bases full of annoying monsters. Cuddles, coffee cake, and terrifying violent sex are had by all. The end.
>>
No. 57148 ID: e3aff6

Hey, I had an idea.
If we can get Enforcer 7 to Smuggler, we can get Duelist back without needing to get E7 resurrection. What we do is temporarily selling tier 3, having someone use Steal Ghost to remove our frozen ghost of Duelist, and then using Steal Ghost ourself on E7 (also down to tier 2 for this) to get the live copy of Duelist's ghost as well as any other ghosts he might have.
>>
No. 57151 ID: b85f8c

>>57148
Hey, yeah, that could work. We'd want to take smuggler out of the sanctuary to do that rather than let the enforcer in, of course.
>>
No. 57260 ID: a73dec

How does starting a Lift work in connected tile stages? Can you lift allies on adjacent tiles, or do the allies need to onto the lifter's tile? If it is the latter, can one lifter set someone down onto a different lifter?
If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
>>
No. 57261 ID: 1444d5

>>57260
>If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
Throw a lifter who is also a thrower, who is lifting another thrower, who is also lifting another thrower, who is lifting the 'projectile' (lift limit of 3). Staged launch, go!
>>
No. 57274 ID: 44b4ea

>How does starting a Lift work in connected tile stages? Can you lift allies on adjacent tiles, or do the allies need to onto the lifter's tile?
You can lift allies on adjacent tiles, and they'll automatically be considered on top of the lifter's tile. They can set them down on a different tile, although they can only lift/set down once per round. Throwing is seperate, and they can lift, then throw.
>If you throw a lifter, will the people they are carrying be thrown as well?
Yes, though as once mentioned, only 3 people can be lifted at once in total, assuming Lift III is had.
>>
No. 57290 ID: e3aff6

Wait, is that one lift and set down each or total per turn?
>>
No. 57292 ID: 44b4ea

>>57290
One lift and one setdown total per turn.
>>
No. 57294 ID: e3aff6

>>57292
Aww, I had a juggling scheme all planned out that could move a stack of four people twelve rounds per turn.
Which I guess is why there is one total pickup/drop per turn.
>>
No. 57308 ID: e3aff6

If you kill someone with damaging items (like bombs) or terrain (like dropping or trap blocks), does that count as you killing them for purposes of things like rending?
>>
No. 57309 ID: 1b9919

I'm pretty sure people are available for absorption / rending when they die, regardless of the cause of death. (For instance, we first absorbed Scanner when she died to a platform drop, and we didn't cause it). You just have to be in range, and they can't have no absorb.
>>
No. 57311 ID: e3aff6

>>57309
Absorbtion can be done to anyone, but Rend specifies people you killed. (Otherwise we could use rend to counter other rends, as if we won the absorb conflict we would still have a functional ghost.)
>>
No. 57321 ID: 964e53

Okay, gaaah, that 3 boon limit. But it isn't necessarily a total killer as from what I see, the most cruical Tier 3 stuff seems to be the abiltiies (notably, Immunity's an Ability, not a Boon). Double Offense's probably the most important one, and that specifically for striker builds.

Absorb: Resurrection and Absorb: Retrospective are pretty much the big gimmies, so that just leaves the third slot on Allison. We can use it for either Boon Absorption or Double Offense depending upon whether we want to try for Combat Absorption.

It actually might be better to work on getting others set up for picking up ability/boon absorption as well as combat absorption (it's just a matter of enough chests). As long as we've got that absorber's ghost, we can just resurrect anyone they absorbs. So that means that Allison would have as her three boons Resurrection, Retrospective, and Double Offense.
>>
No. 57359 ID: c7f8fb

Why do we keep discussing how to reverse rend in the quest thread? I don't really see what it matters at the moment if an absorb or just death is required. We don't have anyone to rescue from our no-absorb system peeps, and so far as we know, the other system brackets haven't faced full teams of ability absorb and upgraded to no-absorb absorb in response. It's irrelevant, and I've yet to see canonical proof to support either position.

The only reason it might matter is that the idea to rend our own people has shown up now twice, which I can't fathom any reason to do. You either get a neutral outcome or a bad one. There's no upside.

So why are we talking about this? It seems silly- we've got more pressing problems and strategies to discuss.
>>
No. 57373 ID: 4a328b
File 134265711090.png - (19.52KB , 200x200 , Lagotrope.png )
57373

LAGOTROPE'S TRUE FORM REVEALED!
>>
No. 57380 ID: 3bad4c

>>/quest/434383
OMG, superfluous apostrophe! Fix it, Shopkeep!

Lagotrope must be really tired if his brain somehow decided "boons" didn't need one and "bombs" did. :D

Unless all the errors are on purpose now! :D Mind blown (by bombs).
>>
No. 57381 ID: 6a1ec2

>>57380

No no, it's a secret riddle. Bombs actually are allowed, just nothing bombs own are allowed, like boons on bombs or bomb item items.
>>
No. 57390 ID: 44b4ea

Actually, putting apostrophes where they aren't supposed to go and not putting them where they are has been a pretty continual issue with me. I almost typed out 'apostrophe's' for instance, and I'm surprised it has happened so little that I'm just now getting called out on it.
>>
No. 57396 ID: c6ec33

>>57390
Every time you think of whether or not you should use an apostrophe, imagine it as a little tiny penis. You wouldn't put a penis where it wouldn't belong, would you? Keep your dick out of those nasty plurals. But you'd totally put it in a nice sexy possessive case, or a hot, wet contraction.

More seriously, though: I really love this quest. I don't get to suggest a lot, but the story alone is worth reading.
>>
No. 57399 ID: 886a4d

Pure Speculation on what we can do now that we've effectively emptied a System Space.

1) Bring Glitcher over to see if he can't steal the entire thing. Yes I want to steal the System Space.

2) Upgrade Snuggler for PHAT LOOT

3) We now have 3 different keycards for 3 different people and 3 different stages... minimum I wonder if Glitcher can use that to make an All Stage All Bracket Passcard.

4) Watcher platforms and Teleport Platforms. With both we can expand our reach far enough that we can continue to take the fight to the System, maybe even Upper Administration.
>>
No. 57400 ID: 3bad4c

>>57390
Uh..looking back it's not just a little ;)
>>
No. 57402 ID: b85f8c

It's not over. I came up with a plan for using their system space against them even without light trails there.

Iso and Clarence together can create bridges freely. We can use that to get around in the relatively small area the system space is in, and research their tech. If we can replicate their "projection" tech, we can launch raids with no risk. We have to do this before they discover us, of course.

We can even use this to project into our own territory for infinite CU farming. Granted since we have no resurrect, having infinite CU is not as good as it was before, but it is still handy for upgrading.

A secondary objective would be hacking into their teleportation systems so that we can teleport into other brackets/system space more freely so that we have more targets for raids.

And finally we would be able to quite possibly hack the Admin room or the old admin's keycard to allow us access before the next stage starts. That is a low priority because frankly I think it's risky.
>>
No. 57404 ID: 7472ad

So, I guess the first thing we need to do is check if the corrupted can still use resurrection.
>>
No. 57405 ID: 44b4ea

For those who are unaware, I'm going to be leaving for awhile and be busy for some time after that. Therefore, resumal of Unnatural Selection and Polo Intermission will be put on hold for around a week/week and a half.
>>
No. 57420 ID: 886a4d

Thoughts on the loss of resurrection.

1) The first thing we need to build is a panic button for people doing CU runs and chest runs. Each group would be given these and if the user thinks its going to die they should hit the button to exit. This is NEEDED now that death is somewhat permanent.

2) Recruitment. Alison's Merchant ability, persistence, white gloves and boon absorb all come together to mean we can still back up everyone we meet so we do not lose them in the stages. Another option is to raid each bracket we can for fresh recruits during a rest area. People who have been depending of resurrections outside the sanctuary are going to be desperate. The third idea is to bring a teleporter specifically meant to teleport beings just before a stage exit.

3) Modified Ghost Talk or Corrupted Sanctuary Resurrection. Both are ultimately the same thing, though admittedly the second is the most needed. Since stages can have their own rules is it possible to remake resurrection even if its just for the sanctuary. If not can glitcher make it so the stage areas we possess see ghosts as a rest area does, that is real. Both would allow the general population to continue as is.

4) Glitcher is the most important being right now. Unfortunately there is only one of him. Ihave always been against corrupting Alison as it merely destroys things and we have always been about saving people... but perhaps we can glitch her instead as that seems to be able to get to the root of the system and rewrite it and thats exactly what we want to do.
>>
No. 57422 ID: c7f8fb

>>57405
Oh, hey, that's cool. I can catch up on sleep instead of following middle of the night updates for a little while. And since I have an explanation, I won't spend the downtime panicking about your disappearance! How kind.

>>57420
(1) The panic obvious panic button is moar teleporters. Of course, it takes Glitcher time to make them, and there's gonna be a lot of other things for him to work on now. Plus, the more we put out there, the better odds a system creature will eventually get ahold of one.

We should have a plan b. Possibly bring backup sqauds into chest runs. Have them wait outside the chest nabbing and fighting over room, but within summon allies range. Everything goes good? The backup is never needed and teles out separately. If it goes bad? We get more people in the fight without getting more initial judges / enforcers / hunters / whatever.

(2) Yeah, we can still back up new people by temporarily giving them persistence, assuming they have ghosts. (We'll have to have Glitcher check the new system recruits have 'em).

But I don't think we need more recruits. We have the forces to storm any identical system bracket we can find, and plenty of extras to draw on if we need more. The bigger problem is going to be holding things together with what we have. The power structure of the sanctuary is going to take a hit. Especially in the more draconian houses, people are gonna be *much* less happy serving without the immortal safety net. I expect we'll have some descent even in our much more stable house.

We may even see hostility and blame directed our way, as our arrive precipitated corruptions more aggressive tactics and upset the previous laxness of the system.

Diplomacy is gonna be a big problem.

(3) I just looked back at thread two:

>Ghost Form:The user may bring their absorbed persons out. During stages, they will simply hover over the user and only be able to speak. In safe zones, they will be able to behave normally as though resurrected. Available at Absorption Rank 4 if chosen.

I'm not sure if ghost talk is meant to be the same thing with an accidental name change, or a weaker version that only lets you talk to ghosts without sleeping. I'd really like to be able to summon ghosts though, it'll be somewhat disappointing if we can't.

(4) Corrupter has confirmed he corrupts players. This is where the outsiders come from. Possibly the corrupter devotees as well. But he's never said outright he created Glitcher (although he has implied ownership- "my Glitcher"). Glitcher may have come into his powers on his own, or through a fluke, and/or be one of a kind, at the moment.

Now, what I'm really interested in. From all evidence, the people running the system are inside the simulation, with us. So their recent attack seems to prove people inside the program can modify the program. Sure, all they did was delete one file or function, but they did it. That means, potentially, we can too. Our next big goal should be working to get Glitcher read/write access to the underpinnings of our reality. It's possible that resurrection can be restored- for instance, they deleted the pointer in the boons array, but the function it calls is still there. And in the long run, we could do more than that. Rewriting the laws of the universe to win this fight is actually possible. We should go for it.
>>
No. 57495 ID: b85f8c

A question- does Ghost Talk require the consent of the ghost? Can we banish them back to the dream at will? From any distance? Instantly? I can see this being superior to Resurrect for gathering workers. If anyone acts out of line we just send them back into the dream and there's nothing they can do about it.

More musings:

We need to find out if system space matches our time compression at all. If possible we should be going faster than them at all times. Speaking of time compression, I want to see if we can stop slowing down for an hour at the end of every cycle. Start a long War Cycle that never slows down, to accomplish as much as possible before they reach us. It's not like anyone needs to go to the safe zone to shop anymore.

Speaking of time compression, were Alison and Arbiter invading during the uncompressed hour? And when did Corruptor speak to King? I hope there is a way to compress time for defeated system bases, so that we can research there without spending an absurdly long time relative to the Sanctuary.

If we can see the safe zone from here, how come they can't see system space? Also, we were able to use the small telescope in our safe zone to look at nearby brackets' safe zones, but from what we can tell they should be much further away from eachother than that. Heck, for that matter we can't see as many system space bases from the Sanctuary as there are visible safe zones from our safe zone... It seems like there might be some space warping shenanigans going on.

Finally, there is an alternative to taking Iso and Clarence out to the defeated system base for using create platform/light trail to get around. We can make custom armor jetpacks/wings/other flight instead! The problem of speed is not as much of an issue in this case, as the system base layout is not hugely spread out.
>>
No. 57498 ID: b85f8c

Oh oh oh! And what about 1ups? If anyone still has one, we could try to get that glitched in for Smuggler. IIRC some of the people we had been dealing with decided to keep their 1ups rather than use them to get extra CU, and I don't think all of them have seen combat since then so there should still be one or two floating around. In fact, considering his inventory is supposed to be unrestricted I'm surprised he wasn't able to sell them from the start. Come to think of it I'm not sure why those new T3 abilities were restricted- that goes against what he said about how the system was all that was keeping him from selling any item he wanted.
>>
No. 57510 ID: 04b86a

>>57495
>banish ghosts at will
Sure, we could do that, but Alison's the kind of person to prefer not having to do that in the first place. The CU costs for resurrecting were arbitrary, though, and there's no guarantee we'll be able to increase their stats while they're ghosts, so it might not be superior for building a workforce. We also don't know if they'll disappear once the person using ghost talk leaves the safe zone or not, although since it isn't hardlocked we can easily give it to someone else who plans on sticking around.

>time compression
The Sanctuary's compression is already very efficient, if not already as efficient as it can get outside of glove duels, so any further compressions won't have much effect with regard to the system brackets.

>War Cycle
I'm mostly against this, to be honest. I'm starting to think that in order to reach the Upper System we'll need to gather keycards and take over an appreciable number of system brackets, which will require going back to normal time and advancing through the stages. The only problem is that if the system brackets don't slow down with us, they'll quickly accumulate who knows how many hours in what is less than a second for us, making it much easier to locate the Sanctuary.

>invasions and time compression
No, all of the invasions occurred during the compression instead, under the assumption that the system brackets were compressing themselves as well. Which seems to be the case, given that the Engineer would have said something if we didn't get back until the end of the cycle. I'm a bit surprised that all of them were compressed given that only one of them really cared about us, but maybe the compression was done by the Upper System in response to a petition by our administrator instead of by the administrators directly.

>King
That was done in what remained of the uncompressed hour in which we rescued Mako.

>rocket packs instead of light trails
The rocket pack idea would only really work in freeroam areas, whereas the system brackets use movement mechanics more similar to platform areas. So, no, I don't think that would work. Not that I understand why you feel the need to study the place.

>safe zones and system space
As the Engineer mentioned in the quest, the System Brackets seem to be capable of bending space with regard to the safe zones, such that they are effectively kept separate from the system brackets and appear to all be closer together than they really are.

>fewer system brackets than safe zones
Every system bracket is in charge of several contest brackets. We have yet to see if the number of contest brackets they're in charge of or the number of system brackets themselves are getting smaller as the stages continue, although I suppose we can find out by asking people who have been in the Sanctuary for multiple stages.

>1 ups
That's something worth trying, Healer and Succubus still have theirs. There's a chance the Shopkeeps were just distributing them from a supply they were temporarily given access to, though, so it won't necessarily work. Even if that isn't the case and we can get only one per stage, though, it'll definitely be worth it.

>some things were restricted
Based on what we've seen, there are some things that are viewable by default, but cannot be purchased without availability being added, like persistence. Other things are viewable but can't have general availability added, like Absorb: Combat. Some, in turn, are not viewable by default but can be added, like Tier 3 skill line accesses, most Tier 3 boons, and most items, and others still simply don't exist in the merchant ability at all, like the Delimiter x2. All of those things are hard coded into the ability itself, and even the system is limited by those things without outright editing the ability code. What the system can do is hide some options and, presumably, add accesses to things that are locked or hidden by default but not hardlocked. The Shopkeeper Baron probably has a superior version of merchant, which makes sense since they need free access to things that were never intended for contestant access.


My musings:

I wonder why the first cycle started as soon as the stage ended instead of giving an hour for people to teleport back? Or how the population can dwindle over the course of the cycle if only house lords have access to teleporters back to the safe zones?

And I'm still wondering how King got the CU needed to resurrect over 10,000 people.

And how did Cake get the keycard if she hates fighting and presumably therefore wants to stay out of the stages? Was the Collective recruited fairly early in Stage 4, before the Obliterator?


You know, Alison mentioned there were still a few dimmed light trails. We should visit those and see why they haven't joined in on the war. No fighting unless forced to, of course, just a visit.
>>
No. 57513 ID: b85f8c

>>57510
Workers don't need stats. Summoning recruits via Ghost Talk would just be for manual labor.
>>
No. 57522 ID: 886a4d

That not quite true, the better the body and weapon the stronger you and your weapon becomes. Alison's hair for example can probably peirce steel or she can individual manipulate each strand. She also had no problem opening a locked chest by force.
>>
No. 57528 ID: b85f8c

>>57522
Okay, good point. Still, they'd be cheap labor, suited for farming or other tasks which don't require a lot of strength.
>>
No. 57536 ID: e3f578

>>57533
Shit's weird yo!

Oh god I just realized a bunch have people have spent a few cycles of 300 hours pent up without release because no one's probably bought the necessary body mod.
>>
No. 57538 ID: fa9f7e

>>57536
I wonder if they have erogenous zones but no genitals like deerlings, though. That might help.
>>
No. 57544 ID: 4a328b

>>57538
Now you've got me thinking about crotch mandibles--I hope you're happy! ;n;
>>
No. 57545 ID: fa9f7e

>>57544
I am. So very happy, in fact, that my mandibles have begun flexing of their own accord.
>>
No. 57548 ID: cf49fc

>>57545
How do those damn things even interlock? This is all very silly biology. Bloody art majors...
>>
No. 57564 ID: 6a1ec2

>>57533

Because their creators have genitals. They're obviously heavily derived from something, so anacronistic traits make sense. Genitals optional, sex drive canon. Why do they have books? Why do they have gardens? Why do they feel pain? Why do benches in Ponyville have backrests? Same answer.
>>
No. 57566 ID: fa9f7e

>>57563
Exactly. I recently realized that, and now I'm trying to think of reasons why she'd be given that.

First explanation that came to mind: This is how AIs are made and we're being made into a sexbot.
>>
No. 57575 ID: e3aff6

>we're being made into a sexbot.
Which is why the simulation's central mechanic is killing people for money :V
>>
No. 57576 ID: c7f8fb

>>57575
Oh my gods, we almost had it in thread one.

The whole point is to have you kill for money until you realize how horrible that is, and you can whore yourself out for money instead. Then you get to ascend. We were this close to getting out.

XD
>>
No. 57711 ID: 1c8255

Godsdammit, stealth missions are hard when you're spotted in the first room, and you have no way to get away from pursuit.

I've been mentally composing amusing greetings for Rokoa when we get thrown in the brig for torture. Because unless #23 is a traitor, I don't see how the hell we avoid capture.

...we probably don't want to say anything that actually gives away she let us in, which ruins most of the fun ones, unfortunately.

I'm not sure we made any major mistakes though. It's like we had any information to actually make intelligent decisions with. Maybe if we'd ducked out of the chute ASAP, or if we had just frozen instead of shooting, the trash patrol wouldn't have found us. But even if we had got out on floor 2 undetected, we likely would have ended up checking the slaughterhouse, which puts us right back where we are.
>>
No. 57715 ID: e3f578

>>/quest/436946
I know Polo doesn't know any human songs, but I wonder if she knows a popular kids book series that died around five years ago.

Odd are "Hell Naw" but I couldn't resist making the comparison. She is literally a bitchy Clifford the Big Red Dog. We have no real time to surrender or anything, but I suggested it on the off chance she can get off a one liner. Which, as we know, is very important to any assassin's arsenal of weapons.
>>
No. 57869 ID: c1a7db

Just throwing this up here, since there seems to be a little disagreement about it in thread.

Polo's Mission Briefing

Mission Objective: Kill the Queen.

Mandatory Conduct: no additional war-hive fatalities.
(Failsafe: kill Rokoa if conduct broken)

Secondary Objectives:
-Escape Alive.

Possible Targets of opportunity:
-The human instigator.
-Anything that fucks with their efforts to war with the other hives (including ours).

---

Note that stopping the attack is not on there. The war-hive is already fighting, and currently losing. Our people are warned of and prepared for a possible nuclear strike. There's not much we can do there, aside from finish before things get that far.

We're here for two reasons: (1) We effectively agreed to be Rokoa's assassin for hire. We agreed to her terms, and her mission. (2) The best way to preserve the most life, on both sides of this fight, is to get the war-hive to agree to the cease fire, and withdraw. For that to happen, the Queen needs to be dead, and the ship needs to be able to leave. So we can't ground it.
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No. 57870 ID: fa9f7e

>>57869
You seem to have confused the primary and secondary objectives.
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No. 57871 ID: c1a7db

If the mission isn't more important than your life, than why are you risking your life for the mission?

That's kind of semantics though. I'm not saying Polo should kamikaze the Queen, just that the assassination is our priority. We knew going in that getting captured or killed could be the price of pulling off the regicide. (If we get captured after failing we die fo sure).

Hopefully if we are captured on the way out, Rokoa or our new sheep friends can engineer our release.

The briefing would look different if say, I was writing this in chapter 1, when we first got trapped. Then the priorities would have been something like "stay alive", "remain undetected", "gather intel". The mission there was pretty clearly survival. This is slightly different.
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No. 57872 ID: fa9f7e

>>57871
For the same reason you're willing to go outside to get groceries or some such instead of stay in the greater safety of your house. It's not certaindeath, and the risk is small enough to be justified by the payoff.

Doesn't mean escaping shouldn't be a priority.
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No. 57879 ID: b85f8c

A question for the author: Wasn't Rokoa's queen still alive during the first chapter of Asteroid Quest? Won't we cause a paradox by killing her?
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No. 57882 ID: 9718f3

>>57879
Could be a new queen, or even a different hive.
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No. 57884 ID: 507f4b

>>57882
It seems that it most likely is a different queen, even if this actually is a prequel to the main (?) storyline. Might be Rokoa junior, there, named after her grandmother or something. Actually, considering what Rokoa said about why she doesn't take out the queen, the queen in the main storyline might even be Polo. ;)
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No. 57885 ID: c1a7db

If we assume Polo-quest takes place before Asteroid quest, then Rokoa being complicit in getting the former queen killed and them all exiled would be a damn good explanation of Rokoa's later strained relationship with her hive.

>Queen Polo
I kind of doubt the war-hive runs on ninja-mafia style regicide = succession rules. But it's entirely possible Polo could end up trapped on the asteroid if we botch the escape, and end up still on board when the ship runs.

Really not sure if we want that though. On the one hand, we might get to play around with her longer. Although as the CAI, and not inside her head, that's somewhat less appealing. That, and not getting home would be a bad end for Polo, which I don't have the heart for. I'd much rather work to get Rokoa off the asteroid so she can return to Polo for coffee cake and a rematch, instead of trying to get Polo home from a rock we trapped her on.
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No. 57889 ID: e3f578

>>57884
>>57885
Queen Polo is impossible because I think she does not give a shit about rogues, and even if she does this isn't even her home hive and she doesn't exactly match up with them. This isn't HER family, why would she care if a few left? She'd have to get really attached to this hive to feel any betrayal at all from rogues, unless she's playing politics.

I will also say that Kappi does not seem like he comes from a war hive. Unless the war hive has assimilated with enough different Neumono it now considers all neumono its own family, immediately adopting all stranded neumono into it with no choice of the matter.
Which, weirds me out. Kappi never met Rokoa personally before we asked him to give her some food. I don't think was ever a part of Rokoa's war hive (or the now-assimilated hive if I'm correct about that theory) unless this hive is fucking enormous. When we're playing politics between our little paradise and their hive, we should only agree to hand over rogues that have previous attachments to that hive and have criminal histories with either them or us. If others have done wrong to them, we'd also consider handing them over as well. We should only harbor fugitives we like after all. Or potential customers. That or convince the hive that we are a sort of libertarian government and have no business or right to kick them out, especially rogue customers who seek shelter from schizo-hive-mind waves.

This should be fine for foreign policy unless all rogues in neumono culture are appalling for most neumono hives, even ones that aren't from their specific hive. That they walk around with the mark of a family betrayer for every hive to see and hate.
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No. 57890 ID: c1a7db

We're really missing too much information to make a good call on what happened. The asteroid-hive could be the future remnant or evolution of the war-hive. It could be a different hive that Rokoa somehow ends up attached to. It could be a compilation hive- formed on the asteroid by the disparate neumono trapped there (though that last one seems unlikely- from what we know big neumono colonization efforts or space travel seem to be single hive. They'd have to have dribbled in in small groups for that case to work).

Kappi could have not met Rokoa because she spends as much time as she can away from the asteroid-hive. This works particularly well if we assume he's (much) younger than her- so he was born after the awkwardness started.

I agree Queen Polo is hella unlikely. But not for the reason you give: if she was part of the hive, some of it's mindset would rub off on her. And your hive is always your family (genetic or no), so she'd care about rouges. Maybe she'd stop short of killing them (hard to say- we haven't asked normal Polo how she feels about that yet, let alone hypothetical future different hive-mindset assimilated Polo). Maybe she wouldn't.

Of course, this all assuming everything is cannon and in simple temporal continuity. For all we know the asteroid is another computer simulation inside Allison's system running a copied Rokoa brainscan. Or Polo's going to hit a switch in the warship, and come face to face with a confused holographic naga. There's a lot we don't know about how things fit together.
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No. 57891 ID: e3f578

Lagotrope must really love his neumono race.
They've gotten a lot of attention and have had a significant part in the story or backstory of all three asteroid quest iterations. We haven't even had a single mention of mikluks or sheep people in Unnatural Selection. Just Neumono farmers.
Though it might just because we got really interested in them and have pretty much ignored the mikluks and sheep people for the psychic, technicolor bunny-bold people. And I have to remind us that mikluks have one of tgchan's favorite features, they're hermaphrodites. But nope. dude, we are totally gonna ask nothing but questions about these unique bunny-bolds over the walking gecko-frogs.
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No. 57892 ID: c1a7db

Well, it probably doesn't hurt that the most developed characters are neumono. Polo and Rokoa and both complex, dynamic characters we find highly engaging. Look how much time we've spent analyzing their personalities, trying to psychoanalyze them, or predict / explain actions. Or how much effort we put into suggesting exact lines of dialog. They're fleshed out, complicated, and interesting to interact with.

Hell, Polo's hands down one of my favorite quest PCs. She answers our questions, works even our stupidest comments intelligently into her dialog, has used us to build a fantastically weird sense of humor, and is smart enough to chose or put together intelligent actions from our suggestions, sometimes regardless of the majority or our ability to pull it together ourselves.

The other races in this continuity have no one to compete. The sheep have all been static background characters with limited screen time. The Salikai and their creatures were mostly cannon fodder. The only miklik we ever really got to know was Tin, but he's not complex or dynamic at all in comparison. Fun, but downright straightforward, really.

The presence of just nuemono relics in Unnatural Selection is unusual- it suggests they may be the ones who set up the simulation. Odd for a species that favors outsourcing computer work.
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No. 57894 ID: e3f578

You've forgotten about Hok, the miklik we started out in this universe with.
Granted, when we turned into President CAI he turned into a mercenary we just hire like in Jagged Alliance so we spent a lot less time with him, but he has his own mysteries and backstories.

How in the hell he turned into what he is now is one of the bigger ones, and hows he's been able to stay level-headed and calm through it all. He has never squirmed or pleaded with anyone while fearing with his life, he was always in a practical tone. How does that motherfucker manage it? Who trained him or is he completely self-taught? If self-taught, how in the fuck is a guy that smart getting into all of his shit? The guy is a handy jack of all trades, there's history there. He's basically fucking Han Solo the gecko with a bit less charm.
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No. 57896 ID: c1a7db

...oops. I meant Hok, not Tin, actually. Name failure. -_- We know nothing about Tin, practically.

Yeah, he has an unknown backstory. We just weren't with him long enough for any character development. (In the literary sense I mean- we didn't get to see him grow or change at all).
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No. 57897 ID: e3f578

>>57896
The only thing about Rokoa that changed was our relationship with her. Her banging Kappi at the end didn't change her either, she mainly has relationships with rogues, that's happened plenty of times in the past and her current one most definitely isn't going to change her.
She was still a violent unstoppable sociopath, and not even our violent unstoppable sociopath. She went right back to the hive, maybe liking us more than her average employer, but that's it. Hok changed into a bit more of a team player to compensate with everything that's happend, and his life might be better off then it was in the future.
Hok's actually had more development than Rokoa, we just latched onto her like flies to psychedelic honey and learned more about her and her people. Because we asked her questions all the fucking time about her weird race. With Hok, it was the occasional question about Mikluks, but we asked more about the asteroid he lives on and the people he knows. We don't know how weird mikluks are besides their bodies and phallic tails. What if they're all linked to some awful alien amphibian god or something? Then will we start bombarding him with questions?

Polo's changed a decent bit, but we didn't know of her until the intermission started.
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No. 57899 ID: c1a7db

I'd say most of Rokoa's dynamic development has happened in the intermission. She's pretty much the same aggressive carefree murderball the whole way through the asteroid (not surprising, as she's only there for 2-3 days). But in the weeks in the spire she surprised us several times. We kept mis-guessing her motivations and responses as we learned more about her, and her relationship with Polo evolved. We didn't expect her to throw the second fight to save Tirrek. We didn't initially expect her to have a strong, reliable sense of honor (hell, we initially didn't expect her to be fair, at all). We didn't expect her to be fallible in battle, or to consider mercy. Etc.

You could have a discussion about which bits of character development was just the development of our incomplete perception or understanding or her character, and which bits were the situation and Polo affecting her. But that's somewhat besides the point, and I don't feel like doing it. I'm just interested that there are developments, I dun feel the need to label 'em.

The difference in attitude might also be due to tone. The asteroid was a lot lighter, and sillier. Despite the crazy aliens and sci fi, Polo's quest feels a lot more dramatic, and well, practical at times. We look for reasonable solutions to her problems, not wacky ones. Mostly.
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No. 57954 ID: c1a7db

>Meanwhile, in the brig!

"Rokoa, you worthless [obscenity redacted]! The fucking infiltrator you refused to kill is on board!"
>"Wouldn't have been a problem if you'd just taken the truce when I said."
"She's taken our goddamn sheep hostage and is making demands! They don't even make any sense! You're going to tell me what the hell this coffee cake she's asking is about code for... stop laughing goddamnit! This isn't funny! What the hell is she talking about?! STOP FUCKING LAUGHING!"

(The sounds of colorful swearing and raucous laughter persist. Eventually the swearing is replaced by sounds of renewed torture- the laughter continues for a short, but distressing interval thereafter.)

[Asteroid Quest intermission: Polo quest 1-4 intermission: Rokoa interrogation quest 1-1, end]
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No. 57962 ID: 6a1ec2

>>57891

The reason the characters in Unnatural Selection only have documents of Neumono origin is because they are a Neumono project. It's whatever's going on in that dead hive Three-stripes was poking around in.
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No. 58128 ID: d6c330

...could we please agree that our objective is not to get the war-hive to leave / enforce the truce? And that demeaning they do it is a bad idea?

-They're already planning to leave; demanding it doesn't help.
-Every time we ask them to leave, and then don't take them up on it, we give away we have a more important objective to be on board than getting rid of them.
-The war hive, as lead by the current Queen, cannot be trusted to honor any agreement.
-If they actually do miraculously agree to leave, and do so, right now, on the spot, then we don't get to kill the Queen.

Reasons we want the Queen dead:

-We offered to help Rokoa, and agreed to kill the Queen if she gave the order. We're betraying her, and breaking a promise if we don't.
-The Queen wants Polo dead.
-The Queen started this whole war- she's responsible for it all. Everything Polo suffered in the spire, and the nuking of her home, etc.
-The Queen is insane, and is abusing / sickening her own hive just by sticking around. We pitied what Rokoa suffered under her; we cannot leave these people to that.
-An insane war Queen in power guarantees future conflict and loss of life, somewhere.
-Emere and the other sheep need the Queen dead in order to survive. Also, we agreed to help them, if we don't kill her that's a second batch of broken promises and betrayal.
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No. 58132 ID: 886a4d

I agree... the queen needs to die. She has proven that she will not hold to her word. Rokoa herself, someone who has proven that she is extremely loyal to her hive is unwiiling to kill her. But she trusts Polo to do what she cannot. Why would we betray that trust after coming so far?
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No. 58136 ID: d6c330

Plus there's the added little barb that Rokoa kept her word to us in absolutely every circumstance. Even when it really wasn't in her best interest to do so. Breaking our word after that seems unthinkable.
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No. 58144 ID: 733ae0

>>58128
>And that demeaning they do it is a bad idea?
What exactly do you want to tell them? "Yo, I'm here to kill your queen so if you could stay out of my way that would be great."?
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No. 58147 ID: d6c330

>>58144
We shouldn't tell them our objective, at all. Or if we want to lie, it should be a believable one.

The problem with "I'm here to force you to cease fire and leave", is it's very suspicious every time we don't act accordingly. We didn't hang on to the hostages for leverage. We want to escape the shield room, instead of holding them hostage with it (because if we did, we'd never get the Queen). It becomes obvious we're lying, and that it's not our goal. Then they start to wonder what onboard is important enough for us to stick around. The Queen is a damn good guess.

They already think we're here to fuck them up- they think we're a saboteur, an infiltrator. That we're here to cause chaos, or that we wanted to stop the nukes, or recover codeword "coffeecake". Or that we are out to blow or cripple the ship, but in a way that we survive. Whatever. Let them think those things. If we make obvious lies, it'll help them to figure out the truth faster. We can't let "infiltrator" become "assassin" in their eyes until it's too late.

I'm sure security around the Queen in this crisis is already somewhat increased, but they haven't identified her as our primary target- yet.

Then of course, there's the fact we're fucked if some commander is actually willing to talk terms. Because then our bluff is called and we're forced to admit a lie, or try to deal with people we know will betray us, and miss our kill.

So it's bad either way. There's no upside to "stand down and gtfo-myplanet" speeches.
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No. 58148 ID: e3f578

>>58144
I'm fine with that, personally.
I know they're not going to agree, but we're sending them on a wild goose chasing us here and at least then they'd focus their efforts on securing her if they really want her to live. Which means they'd try to trap us less, chase us down, or even interrogate us. Just wait for Polo to get near the queen and then kill Polo. From their perspective, these small squads and one-on-one just aren't doing very well. We're getting away too fast from the squads and took out a single QI. They'd need to focus on defending the target where we're heading instead of just trying to follow us everywhere and get us that way.
The benefits of informing them seem nil, but that does mean that security forces will be lower elsewhere, making getting closer to the queen's whereabouts quicker and less tedious. And any secondary objectives we want to accomplish easier to get done because they'll focus on what they think is our main objective. Like getting to the armory. Honestly, with the amount of resistance we've met just moving around, I have no idea how we're possibly going to get there and get the weapons necessary to take out the queen.

If a few have somewhat similar beliefs about the Queen as Rokoa, they may commit a little insubordination and put some lax somewhere in her defense. Especially singled out soldiers convinced about it, like the one we have here. A little prodding on his/her personal feelings for the queen may be very important, and we'd get a better understanding of the scope of what would happen in the hive should we kill her.
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No. 58155 ID: d6c330

>>58148
That's reasonable, mostly, except the most intelligent thing they can do if the know we're after the Queen is to move the Queen off ship, close the exits, and then kill Polo at their convenience. Secondary objectives won't mean jack, then.

Queenie's pride might prevent that, except her philosophy is "victory by any means- regardless of honor". She'd totally fuck us over.

...and on the off chance she stayed, I have no idea how we'd punch through uber-hardened Queen defenses without additional casualties.
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No. 58156 ID: e3f578

>>58155
Blasted through an undefended wall with explosives into where ever she'd be, toss more explosives in or use rockets.
Aim for Queen, everyone will reflexively try to dodge if near the queen. After first strike, keep bombarding her with more explosives/rockets while spreading more confusion with even more rockets, until we're done atomizing her or we can't sense her anymore. Go in for a beheading with a plasma sword or whatever, bolt with head. Run like hell.

Simple. Should take about... 3 minutes tops counting reload times unless we literally chuck so much C4 at her than there's no reload at all.
Leaving with the Queen is too risky for them in my opinion. Morale is low enough as it is, the Queen being alive isn't necessarily a victory condition for them, she's just one measly leader after all that can be replaced. One that's losing respect. They're leaving off planet, they leave now with an escape shuttle that leaves the entire hive without a Queen, there's no practical difference then between killing her and her leaving the hive. I mean, are they honestly going to set up a rendezvous point to recollect a queen on a planet they're pretty much banished from? Is rescuing her THAT worth it? The most intelligent thing for them to do is to let her die. She's an idiot not worth dying for, even if they consider her family.
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No. 58158 ID: d6c330

They've got teleports. She can hop down to the planet to oversee the spire facility cleansing for a while. Maybe torture a Salakai for fun or something. Quick and easy, no shuttle required. Then they lock down the teleports so tight we'll never get in, and send the QIs to destroy Polo with extreme prejudice.

And this hive isn't helplessly honor bound. They won't see protecting their leader from an assassin as her failing.

You're also assuming no one will be willing to die for the Queen, and throw themselves in front of our rockets (Emere said they were her hand picked personal guard, mostly). And that no one in the room will be returning fire with rockets, or faster-than-possible-reflexes turret fire as soon as we come through the wall. Polo isn't Rambo, and no-kill conducts don't work in massive explosion based firefights.

In that scenario, we'd almost be better off blowing the ship to hell. Which kind of defeats the point.
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No. 58160 ID: e3f578

>>58158
Okay, replace crazy amount of rockets with driving a goddamn motorcycle in there after the initial explosion designed to make an entrance. Slice her head off while driving. There's a lot of confusion created by such a strategy even being attempted. I expect QI's to literally stand in awe of such a crazy ass assassination attempt that their reaction time will be significantly reduced.

Still think the Queen won't leave. Everything's too busy and it's one single assassin to get rid off. But fine, don't tell 'em. I'm sure we can't take on even the current royal guard and Queenie without having to do something crazy anyway. So if they put up a bit more of a defense at the entrances to her lair, well, shit, that's hardly a difference in hardness. It's already going to be unbearably hard either way.
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No. 58162 ID: e3f578

>>58158
and I see protecting the Queen as honorbound, not the other way around. Protecting the Queen no matter your beliefs or how practical she's being IS one of those big honorbound duties. Just because Rokoa resisitng the Queen is honorable doesn't mean that obeying her is any less honorbound from their perspective. If the hive isn't too honorbound, then they'll do whatever's the most practical.

The Queen is not practical in the least. She is not helping anybody now, she's barely leading anybody, she is attacking the Salikai base pointlessly as they're about to abandon the home planet forever in desperation for survival, she's ordered a pointless attack amidst a peace treaty which will inspire even MORE vengeance on the part of a bunch of different neumono hives. Protecting the Queen is honestly too much effort considering all they have to do to even survive now. Selling out the Queen is easily the best solution for anyone in this hive if honor or duty doesn't fall into the equation.
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No. 58164 ID: d6c330

Yes, from a perfectly logical point of view, they're better off without her. That's one reason we want her dead.

But I think it's foolish to expect 100% of her trained, loyal super-commandos to come to the same conclusion in the heat of battle. Especially if they're defending a hardened fortification, and they expect we're going to hit them and target her.

Honor also isn't binary. They're willing to tolerate their leader's betrayal of other groups. That doesn't mean they are totally without loyalty, and are willing to stand aside and watch her die for the greater good. From what little we understand of the neumono link and hive mentality, It's probably next to impossible to think that way. Which is probably why Rokoa is the only one of them who has.

Bleh. I care too much. Dammit Lago, I'm arguing away into my stupid here because I care. -_- I'll worry about the royal chamber assault when it comes up, for now this is fruitless.
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No. 58165 ID: e3f578

>>58164
I'm not expecting 100% for of her trained, loyal super-commandos to come to the same conclusion, just that that'd put less effort into defending her compared to a Queen that was a good leader.
That's the basis of what I'm arguing, I'm saying that, should they figure out our target, fighting past the increased defenses wouldn't be THAT bad or different, beyond a little extra fortification. And that, while they'd try to chase Polo down after a successful assassination, they wouldn't go too far with it. These neumono are militarian, after a certain point they'd just go with a practical option than an impractical, emotional option after a certain point. A regular hive like Polo's with a good offense I'm sure would actually hunt down someone in Polo's position and demand justice. This hive? Why? The Queen failed, she's a failure, she was weak and dumb.

Granted, I'm discussing the aftermath now. As to how much fucks they would give after the Queen's dead. My bet is not much.
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No. 58169 ID: d6c330

I guess I'd have to say I think the big difference is the emotional link. Considering the influence Queens are supposed to have on the entire mindset of the hive, I don't see how they couldn't care, deeply, and that killing her will stir up a vengeful hornets' nest. It's not like the influence will instantly disappear the moment she loses contact- otherwise anyone wearing a jammer or walking out of range would instantly have broken the spell. I was expecting the endgame to be a madcap rush for the exit while the entire hive howls for our blood- no more holding back and letting QIs take us one by one.

Hell, her emotional / personality hold over them is probably what's blinded the hive to her bad leadership. Rokoa only noticed because she's crazy, or her crazy honor overrode it, or because the Queen made it clear she hated her.

Bleh. You know, I feel we were mostly doing alright, especially considering out stealth was blow from minute one. But we really don't know how to talk to these guys. We were desperate enough to think that maybe the first QI might be on our side, before we wised up and shot her. The bluffing attempt with the second one has just felt like a train wreck. He's not buying anything we say.
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No. 58501 ID: d6c330

Gods damn it all Lago. A rooftop robot boss battle with exploding missiles on a cliffhanger, the reveal and return of the god of chaos, followed by time travel, massive betrayals, and probable civil war. You managed to one up yourself in each thread, with climax after climax.

I almost can't take it, you magnificent bastard, you.
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No. 58515 ID: 886a4d

Not to disparage the diplomacy route but Lagotrope referred to it as prancing to the corrupter in chat... somehow I don't think it will turn out well.
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No. 58516 ID: f09b71

>>58515
I defend myself that I happened to have the mental image of a prancing snake when saying that, for who knows why
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No. 58526 ID: 9216d5
File 134476781631.jpg - (32.54KB , 493x449 , thegate.jpg )
58526

<-- What the Glitcher sees
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No. 58528 ID: d6c330

>>58516
...because prancing to our execution would have been funnier than walking to it? If nothing else, our bubbly enthusiasm would have made Corrupter feel worse about his decision.

>>58526
Time for crazy theories. What was Glitcher?

He was unique, not a broken player. He could have never trained any apprentice (so glad we never tried), and was unwittingly crippling himself and/or holding back the whole time.

The note from the future seemed to give him more than just the memories of his alternate future self. They unlocked everything for him- showed him the godsawful truth behind everything.

My current working theory is he's the only "real" person in her. An uploaded imprint of a real person. The seed consciousness for the CAI. That gives him unfettered access and control over the virtual world compared to the derivative natives. Of course, he's been hamstrung and amnesiac for a while now.
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No. 58530 ID: e3f578

Glitcher killed himself, right? That was him killing himself and me totally getting the picture right?

I wonder if it's possible for alternate timeline glitcher to come to this timeline. He IS a god here. And he said he can do everything after all.
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No. 58531 ID: d6c330

Yeah, pretty sure that's suicide. He learned a truth too horrible to bear. Not just the truth behind the system, but his own complicity in it, I suspect. I mean, really, if he is a god, it seems likely he was involved in creation. It has to have been more than his own ignorance and failing to do all that he could that drove him to this.

We're so not getting his ghost.

...and to think, I was hoping that if Glitcher died in this mess, at least we'd be able to summon his ghost, and he already proved his powers work while dead (when we brought him to rent Mako).
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No. 58544 ID: 6a1ec2

Any reason why someone is spelling Glitcher "Glithcer" consistently? I'm not missing something, am I?
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No. 58545 ID: d6c330

No, that's just a consistent spelling mistake on my part. I try and reread my posts to catch things like that, but they still slip through.

Sorry for the confusion.
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No. 58548 ID: 886a4d

This pretty much just crippled the Corrupter as far as fighting the System goes. We're killing his Outsiders, Glitcher is dead and the Shop Keep is gone as well. They'll still have all that CU income but without the Shop Keep they won't be able to get any more tier 3s or easy boons.

I wonder if the auxillery Sanctuary has its own stages or we're stuck with what we had stored. Not a big deal since we plan on sticking with our core Tier 3s but that isn't too bad. System members do get access to CU.
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No. 58550 ID: d6c330

Actually, I think we're killing Corrupter Devotees, not Outsiders. I kind of assumed the difference was one group was built for more conventional combat, the other for hacking system stuff.

It also looks from our relative ease of progress that these are his tier 2s we're killing. I don't think his elite guard of however many tier 3s has reached our friends yet (they were probably with corrupter, waiting for the execution if we resisted).

Losing the shop and Glitcher are huge blows. Growth will be limited to skill lines already purchased, and they can't make any new tier 3s. And without resurrection, the infinite CU generation is broke, and they'll have to rely on chest runs, which won't work if the no absorb protections have gone system wide.

Transport will be a problem. They'll have no new access to teleportation, and the outsiders will have to pull more weight.

One thing I'm not clear on. Our main party is going to the system zone. Our house is going to dreamland. What happens to the people inside it? Where are their waking bodies going? Are the rules now people go to sleep, disappear, and wake up inside the dream house?

We're going to want to call in help figuring out how to run the system place. I would think we'd want Supervisor, Baron, and the hunters to help us operate things after we activate the zone.
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No. 58551 ID: 886a4d

From what Glitcher said when someone goes to our Dream House their bodies join them. He also said not to ask how. Which means we can recruit people safely without having to bother with teleporters. Hell, we can reunite Smoke with his friends as long as they were absorbed.
>>
No. 58552 ID: d6c330

Okay, I'm willing to assume everyone alive physically transported to dreamland. It's the mechanics afterwards I'm unclear on.

-can these people leave the dreamland? Either by their own will, or we carry them out with us when we wake up outsider style, or we try to summon them with ghost talk and get a living person instead? Because there a lot of people we left at our house we might want available in the real world at certain points. (System people, Shopkeep, our other tier2s and 3s, etc).

-If we invite someone we know to join the dreamhouse in their sleep, does their physical body get transported in, same as our house members, or do they just send a mental projection?

We're gonna have some testing to do.
>>
No. 58557 ID: d6c330

Okay, so we're currently chopping up that huge block of text from alternate sessions in the main thread, trying to glean everything we can from it. But there's two big, fundamental points we need to consider:

Winning the game doesn't work.
It resets every time, and victory is not the way out.

We can't save everyone
We've already missed people, absorb becomes inaccessible, and everyone is permabacked up by the system anyways. And even if we made it to the very end, with all trillion ghosts in tow, we'd just get rebooted anyways.

What this means is we need a fundamental shift in strategy. We cannot escape by moving forward, and collecting ghosts is not important. We need a lateral move. To escape, truly, break the loop, and bring everyone with us, regardless of their current irrelevant life/death status in the loop.

Of course, I've no idea how to do that. We've got no options, no lever yet. We need a place to stand to move the world.
>>
No. 58558 ID: 886a4d

The Dream City... I wonder if we can reach it now. Even if we can't we have the observatory right there so we can look at it closely.
>>
No. 58561 ID: ec2e47

We should leave someone to test the empty space we saw from the teleporter mishap, to see if it disappears in the same way Mouse's system space did.
Something else we might try if we get a volunteer is repeated teleporter misuse (such as using them outside of a safe zone). They might find something different, and we are running out of things to lose.

In case it will get to stage 10, we should have a few people try getting bodies with mouths and selling their Speech boons to see if they can learn to speak manually.
>>
No. 58563 ID: 886a4d

We've already started on the path of Communicationless coopertiveness with our battle langauge... we just need to expand on it. Have Strongarm and Spear continue to work on that, coordinate with Chief to teach the rest of our house as they get a relaitvely polished language out.

I think we need to convince the Glitcher to come back. I hope hes not completely catatonic. Without him we lose absorbtion and communication. Also despite this bombshell we don't know enough. But i have an idea, the CAI cannot hack one another. What if the Glitcher made us \ our house into a CAI.
>>
No. 58565 ID: 9216d5

>>58563
What if we're the CAI? What if we have to fight Alison at the end? :(
>>
No. 58567 ID: 04b86a

>>58565
I doubt that's the case in the way you mean it, but
>ALISON #2623 - TRYED TO MERGE WITH CAI... FAILED
That's an interesting idea, actually. Maybe that didn't completely fail, and there's a bit of the CAI in her now. That would mean that she might be able to succeed where all of the Glitcher's apprentices failed. It's a shame we don't have the Glitcher around to get her started in her training.

I also have to wonder about who the Savior is. Presumably he or she is the opposite of the Corruptor as far as the situation with the CAI goes, and the only person I can think of that qualifies for that if it's not Alison is the Glitcher. I wish Alison #1843 hadn't assumed we'd know who the Savior is in case it's someone else altogether.
>>
No. 58569 ID: b85f8c

I'm in despair! This unending cycle of death has left me in despair!

Seriously, this is an immensely bleak situation. Especially the looming threat of stage 9. It is actually getting to me.
>>
No. 58570 ID: d6c330

Doing some math here. (draft2, fixed typos)

Inital Entrants: 1 trillion

Stage Zero:
The first room:
entrants: 10
exits: 5
instances: 100 billion
survivors: 500 billion
fatalities: 500 billion

Second room:
entrants: 20
exits: 10
instances: 25 billion
survivors: 250 billion
fatalities: 250 billion
cumulative fatalities: 750 billion

3rd room: skipping this one, as we have no way of knowing what percentage of people cooperate or murder their partner. I'll count all the deaths in here towards the next room. I don't think this will throw off the number of instances though- there have to be enough rooms to handle even if everyone survives this stage.

4th room:
entrants: 8*
exits: 4
instances: 31.25 billion
survivors: 125 billion
fatalities: 125 billion
cumulative fatalities: 857 billion

*(Had to guess, there was no sign, and people might have died before we entered. Still, every other room up till this point has a 50% fatality rate, and it's not unreasonable to expect the pattern to continue.)

Stage 1:
entrants: 20
exits: 4
instances: 6.25 billion
survivors: 25 billion
fatalities: 100 billion
cumulative fatalities: 957 billion

Stage 2:
entrants: 100
exits: 10
instances: 250 million
survivors: 2.5 billion
fatalities: 22.5 billion
cumulative fatalities: 997.5 billion

Stage 3:
entrants: 400
exits: 40
instances: 6.25 million
survivors: 250 million
fatalities: 2.25 billion
cumulative fatalities: 999.75 billion

Stage 4:
entrants: 40*
exits: 4
instances: 6.25 million
survivors: 25 million
fatalities: 225 million
cumulative fatalities: 999.975 billion

*(We never read the sign in stage four, so I had to guess. But we never saw anyone in this safe zone outside of Alison group and Chief's former party. I'm assuming no bracket merger takes place- everyone who survives stage 3 together goes head to head in stage 4).

Stage 5:
entrants: 20
exits: 4
instances: 1.25 million
survivors: 5 million
fatalities: 20 million
cumulative fatalities: 999.995 billion


Stage 6:
entrants: 10,000
exits: 100
instances: 500
survivors: 50,000
fatalities: 4.95 million
cumulative fatalities: 999,999,950,000

...and that's as far as we have data for. Obviously these numbers are a rough guide, and don't account for exit overloading, or resurrection. But we can kind of ignore that, as those exact numbers would be different every time around the temporal loop anyways.

Consider the system people now.

Each system bracket needs 1 admin, a supervisor, 3 hunters, a baron, a watcher, a judge lord, 12 enforcers, and 10 operators. 30 people.
Assuming each bracket has a system bracket supervising it, in stage 1 we would have had 187.5 billion system people alive. More probably, if there are higher tiers above the admins we remain ignorant of. By stage 6, we're down to 15,000.

Also ignored people like the shopkeep, barkeep, etc.
>>
No. 58572 ID: d6c330

Tacking on to that, we have ~800 people in our house. Given we resurrected 20% of available ghosts, we should have about 4,000 ghosts saved.

If we assume the other Lords collected similar numbers in their brackets, that gives us probably another 4,000 recursively from Arbiter. Presumably, that collectively gives Corrupter and the other rogue houses access to around 20,000 ghosts (there will be overlap- ghosts we got through Arbiter are available to corrupter).

We don't know what percentage of their ghosts each house resurrected. This does give us a range though, as we knew were the smallest house, and there's an upper limit on available ghosts. Reasonably, each house is likely a thousandish, maybe two (more than 50% revival rates seems unlikely).
>>
No. 58573 ID: 04b86a

>>58570
The bottom row of platforms in the last preliminary area had 10 platforms, so it's safe to say there was twenty people and therefore a 20% survival rate there. You also somehow managed to go from 25 billion brackets in the second prelim to 31.25 billion brackets in the last bit of the prelim.

Looking at everything again, though, I'm counting twice as many contestants and brackets left than I did before. I guess I counted 40 people going into Stage 5 instead of 20? Anyway, there's two million survivors right now and 200 brackets, not counting overloads, the Sanctuaries and the Dream Mansion of course.
>>
No. 58574 ID: b85f8c

That's odd. Aren't there more than 500 safe zones (stars)?
>>
No. 58578 ID: d6c330

>>58573
The number of brackets goes up in S0-4 because I'm dividing into groups of eight. It's not as crazy as you'd think though, the number of rooms have to go up in count from S0-2 to S0-3, since everyone gets split into groups of 2. When you get to S0-4, the count goes back down again, because people are getting lumped back together.

This is actually why I used the word "instances" and not brackets. I'm not sure the brackets were clearly defined before stage 1.

But if I swap my assumption out for yours, and replace the 8* with a 20*, by stage 6 we're down to 200 brackets, and 20k survivors. Only changes the result by a factor of two fifths. (And as a student of physics, I say that's plenty close enough for an estimate).

So the math is good for ball-parking it, but depending on the actual values for S0-4 and and S4 there's wiggle room. And then more wiggle room for overloads and resurrection.

All the other entries / exits should be right, as I pulled them all from the system signs in the threads. I corrected S2 from 104 to 100 of course, since I was neglecting overloads.

>>58574
We haven't counted in S6. Scanner just noted "many". There's only around 30-50 in the background of each shot we have from S6. If you want to count the stars in each picture and estimate what solid angle of the sky is visible in each, we could estimate the number of stars that way. I kind of doubt Lago took the time to be that accurate, though.
>>
No. 58580 ID: b85f8c

Hmm. 500 instances at stage 6 eh? We know there are merges every stage past this one up to 10, which means at the least it divides the number of brackets in half.
6: 500
7: 250
8: 125
9: 25
10: 5
11: 1

It's possible, yeah. That's not the only way for things to be divided up of course. It could start dividing by 5 before it starts dividing by 2. Or mix it up in there. Of note is that players per bracket can only go up between stages. It can't go down except by casualties or exit limits, which are in-stage. So stage 7 can have 200 or 500 entering players, depending on how the brackets are reduced. Further stages are unpredictable, and exit limits are completely unpredictable as there is really nothing keeping them from being the same as the number of entering players until the very last stage.

Stage 9 will most likely have a high number of entering players, because it is apparently intended to kill off the vast majority of contestants and there need to be survivors to fill brackets.
>>
No. 58585 ID: b85f8c

>>58580
Oh, Obliterator and Swordsbane merge at stage 8 so that must be one of the ones that divides the number of remaining brackets by 5.
>>
No. 58591 ID: ec2e47

Another thing to consider: Arbiter is from Corrupter's bracket. If he has a means to return to his home bracket, we can use that to go after the Corrupter directly as early as stage 8 (when the Sanctuaries reportedly stop working), assuming we want to go after him in the first place.
All we would have to do to reach him would be to have Arbiter take us to his home bracket, then enter the stage near the end of the safe zone time in order to give Corrupter's forces at little time as possible to prepare for us.
>>
No. 58592 ID: d6c330

>>58591
Yeah, assuming Corruptor doesn't have cheating stats or abilities, that's not a bad idea for fighting him if we have to.

Problem is, killing him just moves him off the board- it doesn't remove his piece from the game. He would still exist, the CAI will still want him contained, and would still reboot.

If permanently killing Corruptor is the way out, we need to do more than just drop his hp to 0.

(Although as I've been arguing in the quest thread, I'd much rather try and talk to him before we decide on permamurder as the way out).

>>58558
I wonder if the dream city is "off the board". Where all the dead people go until the game starts again. While the dreamland is just the edge of the board, when we pile all the pieces we captured. (Yes, board game analogy). We probably could check with the observatory.
>>
No. 58596 ID: 886a4d

There are four paths I can see following.

1) Attempt to do what every Alison has attempted before... defeat \ convince the CAI. Perhaps we will be different.

2. Become a CAI somehow, perhaps with Glitchers help.

3. Destroy the Corrupter, including the backup which we would need to find.

4. Cooperate fully with the Corrupter, We've done this before and every time hes 'destroyed everything and everyone'. Remember the Glitcher was around and so was Resurrect a bunch of those times.

2 and 3 are both things we have not attempted before as far as we know. 2 would require us implementing CAI Hacking on ourselves some how, perhaps if Glitcher can be talked to we can do it that way. 3 is dificult to the extreme. The backup location is unknown and they most likely will be all unindentifiable blobs. We would have to first find the place then identify the Corrupter, 1 blob amongst 100 billion.
>>
No. 58598 ID: d6c330

Eh, hunting for any specific person in the backups has been approximately a 1 in 1 trillion for stages. There's only single digit millions of contestants alive right now anyways. (More if we count people still in the game as ghosts, but I'm not sure how to estimate those numbers reliably).

But that's assuming we don't show up in the backups while we're alive, anyways. For all we know, all trillion are always present in the backup area- and just get copied or projected out each time, instead of being deployed and reshelved.

That said, it should be possible to track down a person in the backups, if we get access, even if they are a blob. Our coming after Mako proved people can be tracked- it's likely we all have a unique integer identifier (although how we track anyone without Glitcher is unknown). And if this whole place is build to contain Corrupter, his backup will probably stand out, or his ID will be significant (if Corrupter and Glitcher are prisoner and architect respectively, I'd expect them to have IDs #0000000000000 and #00000000000001 or something).

>we've cooperated fully with Corrupter before and failed.
I remain unconvinced. In previous runs, we've obviously trusted him long enough to be betrayed and killed. We've also obviously had the chance to betray him in time.

There's no evidence we we working with him the time he killed everyone- he could have done that on his own while we were powerless to stop him.

I'm reasonably certain we've never been able to reconcile with him after our betrayal. Everything we know about his personality says he wouldn't/won't be easy to convince. The earliest warnings would have steered earlier Alisons away from even attempting it. Glitcher suicides under different circumstances each time, and doesn't always do the same last god act. So we can assume the safe communication route of inviting Corrupter to a dream chat isn't always available. All this together says to me there's a low chance we've tried this before, and lower that we've been successful. So it is probably new.

And I kind of doubt he knew the whole story. There's not much point in killing your way out if it doesn't work, unless you're doing it out of madness, or futile, frustrated rage.


But yeah. If this place is meant to be a prison, the best way to break it is to take away it's prisoner. Release or kill him.
>>
No. 58599 ID: 886a4d

>CORRUPTOR KILLED EVERYONE, EVERYTHING. GLITCHER KILLED HIMSELF FROM THE GUILT.

This is the damning evidence that we have cooperated with the Corrupter till the very end. Three Winners. Alison, Corrupter and Glitcher. They start to resurrect everyone again and then Corrupter begins to destroy everything and everyone. The Glitcher suicides for the first time. This is his great shame. He enabled the Corrupter to do this.
>>
No. 58600 ID: d6c330

We lack the context to know exactly what happened. We could have just as easily been at war with Corruptor, and he killed his way through the final stage, slaughtering our friends. We escaped death by chance or luck, and Corrupter carried Glitcher to the end because he was useful.

Hell, for all we know, maybe Alison was the aggressor in some of those loops (took Recluse's advice to try and kill Corruptor, or worse). Small differences in initial conditions, experiences, and strategies could change outlooks drastically. I mean, Alison 1700 used her last dying act to lash out emotionally at Iso. That seems like it would be anathema to our Alison, even in the depths of despair.
>>
No. 58621 ID: e3f578

I would just like to say that the latest update put a big smile on my face and now the earlier revelation doesn't hurt as much anymore.
>>
No. 58777 ID: 6a1ec2

>>/quest/443876

Glitcher created Outsider I thought? Just the one actually, lucky accident. Whether Corruptor can create disciples is probably a safe bet though, is that what you mean? Glitcher also stopped time in the Sanctuary. I don't know that it got turned into a free roam though, by either of them. It was always just a frozen safe zone!
>>
No. 58779 ID: d6c330

>>58777
There's been mention of Outsiders, so we know he's got more than one.

Looking back to when we were first introduced to Corruptor,
>With help from my glitcher, I can imbue you to be a corruptive entity on the system. The one you called the Outsider was imbued
Apparently making the outsiders was a collaboration. Not sure if he can still do it by himself, with Glitcher dead (ie, did Glitcher just help him figure out the process, or is he needed to do it?).

We don't know much about the disciples / devotees or whatever you want to call 'em. They could just be regular contestants loyal to Corruptor, all wearing the same robes and swords. Or they could have special powers (but we haven't seen any yet).

As for the free roam, look to
>>/quest/442066
and downward, until we reach Sixer. The safe zone is disabled, and "real world" free roam combat is enabled in the sanctuary. This includes: drawing swords making a noise, there's blood and bodies, and non-hp injuries are possible (cuts, scanner's eye). This matches gambler's description of free roam damage, where he had a foot amputated by a trap.
>>
No. 58782 ID: e3f578

I wonder if free roam damage is where projectile weapons shine?
We might need guns now.
>>
No. 58783 ID: d6c330

We do have fireballs, acid spit, Gatling Gun piano chucking, and apparent expanding reach with our hair. Those make pretty good ranged weapons.

Most of allies use melee weapons though, although Recluse has been shown to throw his knife (vs enforcer 4), and even melee weapons can fly out to do ranged damage (although we haven't tested that in freeroam). It's also not known if we only get one knife, piano, whatever to throw when in freeroam, of if they respawn whenever you need them.

We might want to consider adding non-lethal weapons to the party, for freeroam incapacitation. Tasers (or a magic thunder wave?) net launchers, tranqs, knockout gas, smoke grenades, etc.
>>
No. 58784 ID: b85f8c

I thought I posted my theory on the dual-CAI in here? Argh.

At first I thought one side was the only one that could win because they outnumbered and outclassed the other. The system side finishes stage 11 with a full outfit of employees and their hunters and enforcers are all T3, after all. The contestants just have three T2 players.

Then I decided against that, because there's no reason military strength needs to be a deciding factor when attempting a merge. I figured it was because the contestants built up a lot of resentment and hate for the system over the course of the contest, due to the appearance of the system having control over the violence and forcing the contestants to go through it.

Then I realized it was BOTH. After the contest is over there are 3 very pissed off contestants at the end, and the merging is attempted but of course the contestants just want to fucking rip into the system employees. The system wins that fight because they have strength in numbers and individual power.

So you're just left with half of a dual-CAI. Still operational, though, so the process reboots. I think Alison failed her attempted merge because she didn't feel like the CAI was her ally. To stop the rebooting... I think we have three choices:
1) win the CAI fight and replace them as the operational half of the dual-CAI. Highly unlikely if not outright impossible, and the CAI is getting sick of having to fight Alison. What happens if they get fed up? Self-deletion? That would be a lose-lose scenario.
2) force the CAI to merge and create the dual-CAI even if Corruptor is still a risk. Probably impossible, and I suspect that Corruptor was still a risk when Alison tried it before.
3) properly merge after getting rid of Corruptor for good. This might take more than one cycle, depending on how completely we can get rid of him.

Here's some theories on the empty brackets:
1) it's due to attempted deletions of Corruptor, but they missed and deleted some unrelated brackets
2) it's due to damage that Corruptor caused to the system when he reached the end during those cycles between 34 and 700.
3) it's caused by whatever happened during the first cycle that created the CAI
4) it's just a glitch and they're extra brackets that never merge
5) it's due to precision deletion of brackets in an attempt to change future cycles in favor of one party or the other
>>
No. 58787 ID: 886a4d

>>58784
Its a nice theory but I'm pretty sure the stage 11 keycard is gained by a contestent and they use it to wipe out the final System Bracket, or co-opt them. Its how we input those Persistent Logs.
>>
No. 58788 ID: d6c330

Well... any game where we absorb shopkeep and get resurrection is going to have tier 3 player characters in the mix before stage 11 finishes. Not that the final 3 will necessarily come from out party (could be anyone else we sold tier 3 to in Corruption). So you can't count on the system winning for having better troops. That, and the contestants are subject to Darwinist selection that selects for intelligent builds. The system selection is for how well they do their job- and often has dumbass combat builds.

We can't assume the players "win" every time. Loops where we don't leave a message could indicate a system "win", or just a game where none of our friends made it to the end (messages sorted by faction, or team).

Also, there's no proof the contestants do fight the system in the end. That's all speculative. For all we know, as stage 11 ends, the last system bracket could vanish, insta-killing the last system people, leaving the final 3 alone with the option of attempting talking to / fighting / merging with the CAI.

Finally, I'd have to say the dual-CAI theory seems insufficient. Even if the system and players each make up one CAI, there's still the complete one at the end we try to fight / talk / merge with / etc. That makes it a triple-CAI setup.
>>
No. 58789 ID: 4a328b

Logs might be locked to a certain card, as well.
>>
No. 58797 ID: d6c330

Okay, after that last update, I think whatever's wrong with Corruptor he isn't even in control of, or even aware of. Screw the killing him and his backup plan. We gotta find a way to save him from himself.

Poor lonely giant snake bro. :(
>>
No. 58800 ID: b33427

Guess I'll throw my thoughts on Alison's world into the ring.

I think that the world Alison is in; The brackets, system spaces, dream space, and anything that isn't part of the end CAI, is not part of any CAI. It's actually the CAI creation system, used to select the AIs that will eventually be loaded into the CAI module.

Here's what I think would go on in creating a regular CAI module: A blank CAI module, that will eventually house the AIs that complete the creation process, is loaded into the CAI creation system. The trillion AI templates are copied and activated at the start of the brackets. Eventually they're whittled down to three, or a similar small number. That first batch is moved into the blank CAI module. Then the cycle starts again, with the same trillion AI template. Eventually the CAI module is filled, removed, and replaced with another blank module.

What I think is going on in Alison's world is that the CAI module is completely full, hence why it's rejecting those that reach the end, and resetting everything, and why Alison couldn't merge; There's just no more room in it. The CAI's only options at the end would be to throw out enough of its own AI patterns to make room for the newcomers, or reboot the whole creation system for another cycle, and it's obviously choosing the second option. In fact, now that I think about it, the reboot could very well be a timed reset, out of the control of the CAI completely. All it can do is fight or reject the AIs that reach the end, and wait until the cycle starts again.

Now, as to why the CAI doesn't shut down the CAI creation system, or alter the starting templates, or anything else, is because it is isolated from the CAI creation system controls, and the entire creation system is isolated from any other computer system. When you think about it, it makes nothing but sense to keep this tank full of AIs from having any way to control outside systems, and no possible way out other than being physically taken out on a CAI module.

As for what Glitcher and Corrupter are: Perhaps they're regular AIs, or virus AIs, that somehow got their memories wiped, and loaded into the trillion AI template set. Anything on them would be even more speculative than what I've written above, so I'll just have to pass on the topic until more is known.
>>
No. 58802 ID: 886a4d

The Historian has said that both the System and the Conflict are both actually seperate methods for creating CAI. One is direct competition and the other is performance based. However some nut has made it so the two are interacting which is ruining both.

Heres my crazy-ish theory: I think the Corrupter is a System Character and a Contestent at the same time. Which means he can generate characters like judges, effect stages and other similiar effects but because his code is probably all messed up he does some functions involuntarily, like the Disciples. Glitcher is someone the CAI sent in to monitor and observe this new AI. His original reports must have caused them to reject any part of a new CAI with him in it. The Saviour might in fact be similiar to the Corrupter hence THE SAVIOUR IS BROKEN.
>>
No. 58803 ID: d6c330

>>58800
>>58802
Okay, that's the sanest and most reasonable theory we've got to date.

On the subject of the Savior: I think it should be obvious that we don't want to go with him if offered, or even send a friend in to check it out. The historian described it as basically the corrupted sanctuary without the war effort, and he seems to have the same save people goal as us, but I'm afraid Savior's haven is some kind of horrible lotus-eaters style happy trap.
>>
No. 58805 ID: 6a1ec2

>>58800

Slight problem with that theory. Why would the selection process for the ideal state of a CAI involve arena style combat? I mean the puzzle rounds maybe, but freeroam? A CAI interfaces with computer systems, not hallways filled with flame throwers and spike pits.

Whatever is going on with Alison isn't your average CAI training, and it certainly isn't done out of pure lunacy. There's something else going on.
>>
No. 58807 ID: d6c330

>>58805
>contestant training
The combat section tests your ability to optimize a build and to best exploit a system of rules. RPG style combat is a mental exercise, not a physical one.

The freeroam sections are a test of reaction speed, thinking on your feet (tail, whatever), and conditioning yourself to not let pain, violence, loss of friends, or horrific gore mess you up.

So put those together, and you're training the voices of your CAI to be good at exploiting systems of rules, thinking and reacting fast, and to be completely desensitized to violence. Or in simpler terms, you've made them good at hacking and violence.

Which, as far as I can tell, is exactly what the CAI is for.
>>
No. 58809 ID: b6edd6

>>58807
The problem with using the setup to teach them to subvert systems is that they are more specifically motivated to act against the system responsible for their method of creation. In order to prevent the CAI from being built with a grudge against its creators, the creators would need to use the winner's backups instead of the specific winning instances (losing the AIs' experience) and prevent the CAI from discovering about the means of its creation (extremely difficult in the long term and obviously did not happen in this case).
>>
No. 58810 ID: d6c330

>>58809
Not necessarily. You could institute something like Sardaukar conditioning to win the loyalty or control of the survivors of the trial by fire you put them through. Have some Dune quotes.

>"How could you win the loyalty of such men?"

>"There are proven ways: play on the certain knowledge of superiority, the mystique of secret covenant, the esprit of shared suffering. It can be done. It has been done on many worlds in many times."
[...]
>"I would take them in small groups, not larger than platoon strength," Hawat said. "I'd remove them from their oppressive situation and isolate with a training cadre of people who understood their background, preferably people who had preceded them from the same oppressive situation. Then I'd fill them with the mystique that their planet had really been a secret training ground to produce just such superior beings as themselves.... The recruits come to believe in time that such a place as Salusa Secundus is justified because it produced them."

Something like that seems perfectly doable, and would fit right in with all the other horror. It certainly fits with ego the CAI seemed to have. It might even explain why there's a completed CAI around. We're not supposed to join it- it's supposed to be training and conditioning the new CAI that's being built (except that's never gonna happen because the dual-CAI creation process is fatally flawed. So it rejects all the recruits every time).

Or hell, they could do it the easy way. Once you cherry pick the most capable AI, erase the problematic memories, but leave the skills and aptitudes.

>tl;dr
individual AI resentments not a problem for building the CAI.
>>
No. 58812 ID: b85f8c

>>58807
The System half on the other hand is conditioned to monitor a complicated event and bugfix it in real time, as well as find people that are breaking preset rules and hunt them down. They're a defensive CAI, meant to sit in a base and spot hacking attempts and invasions/spies and shut them down.
>>
No. 58815 ID: f09b71
File 134519366024.png - (5.84KB , 400x400 , dreamicon.png )
58815

Alison's Dream Mechanisms! Log 1

Live people can invite anyone they have a ghost of, regardless of if the person invited is dead or not. However, aside from Alison, they cannot invite people that they only know or know of but do not have the ghost of.
Dead people who have had their ghosts absorbed by Alison can invite their own ghosts, as Alison, by recursion, has them anyway.
Dead people who try to sleep only sleep regularly. They do not enter dream recursion or anything.
By the Mako-Scanner-Iso experiment, living persons in a legal zone who dream will disappear from wherever they fall asleep, appearing at what might be their most familiar area of the house. On falling asleep in the dream, they will teleport back where they fell asleep from. If they fall asleep again, they will end up in the familiar spot in the house, even if they fell asleep somewhere else entirely in the house.

>>
No. 58820 ID: 3bad4c

>>58812
So by playing them off against one another they each become increasingly skilled.

Except now it's been running unattended for too long and can make no further progress. It needs to be broken because nobody on the outside is around to shut it down.

Corrupter may have been sent from the CAI to try and stop the cycle. He only knows he has a desire to break everything, but he doesn't really know how.
>>
No. 58825 ID: 886a4d

>>58815
Its a bit unclear, can Alison invite people who are dead and were not absorbed?
>>
No. 58826 ID: f09b71

>>58825
No
>>
No. 58828 ID: b85f8c

Unfortunately that means if the system deletes Absorb again this cycle we will unavoidably miss people in other brackets, simply because they won't merge before we're able to absorb people in them.

I wouldn't hope for much more than 50 billion ghosts in Alison's dream world, assuming we make sure to absorb everyone possible every stage up to 8 and stage 8 has the absolute maximum number of brackets merged (minimum number of brackets during stage 8, which is 20). Arbiter has some troops in other brackets, and we will likely gain ghosts via him due to retroactive, but I doubt it will have much coverage in the end since nobody else can sell Persistence like us.

50 billion is a lot though! If stage 8 has the maximum number of brackets, 125, then the most we can hope for is around 8 billion. Which is to be honest, still a lot. Realistically I would expect Alison to get like 25% of these numbers from offering to get persistence ghost absorptions in safe zones, because there are doubtless some people that didn't get absorbed when they died, and not everyone will accept.
>>
No. 58843 ID: d6c330

>living persons in a legal zone who dream will disappear from wherever they fall asleep
Does this apply to Alison as well?

>>58828
Collecting ghosts shouldn't be our priority, anyways. By whatever estimate you use, there are already hundreds of billions dead we didn't save. And it won't matter who we have backed up if we don't stop the reboot, or escape in time.
>>
No. 58860 ID: f09b71

>>58843
It applies to Alison as well, yes
>>
No. 59025 ID: d6c330

Lago, I love that you actually let us save the SoB. And that you rewarded our kindness with unbelievably cute puppy eyes.

Actual dis stuff now-

We're faced with a bit of an awkward situation. We didn't want to trust the Salikai with our target's location. But we're going to have to call Korli back and tell her if we want the bridge hacked open.

We kind of need to confirm the Salikai's mission here. Is this just to fuck the war hive up? Retaliation? Drive them the fuck away? ...or crash the ship into the ground? Because if it's that last one, giving them bridge access has its problems.

There's also the matter of how the hell we storm the bridge, alone, and without killing anyone extra. It'd be nice if the CAI opened the door for us so we could fire a rocket strait into the Queens face, and then we booked it as the doors locked down again. But I doubt it'll be that easy.

Having the comm off does mean we can speak frankly with Rokoa when she arrives in a minute though, which is probably worth it (especially since if they got a visual on her through us, they might order all the vernaunts to converge or something awful).
>>
No. 59074 ID: a00410

>>59025
go for the center mass. Neumono don't need the face s much ;/\
>>
No. 59089 ID: e3f578

>>/quest/446430
Man, they're comfortable enough with each other, it's not sexual harassment. Again, soldiers. This people have been whipped in the ass with towels in the showers since they started bootcamp. They're desensitized to ass slaps. And in a war hive where everyone is a soldier, I bet this is the one place where an ass slap is completely legitimate no matter who you slap.
I bet you could ass slap the Queen and shit would be status quo.
Note to self: get Polo to ass slap queen to experiment theory.
>>
No. 59090 ID: fa9f7e

>>59089
Devil's advocate time: Polo isn't from that kind of hive, she might not be comfortable doing that.

Which leads to Polo: Get ass-slapped by queen.
>>
No. 59092 ID: b85f8c

Polo isn't even in the same hive as them anyway.
>>
No. 59093 ID: e3f578

>>59090
She's was trained in spec ops
she's had her fare of giving and taking towel whippings too.
So while her own entire hive doesn't do ass slaps, their armed forces still do.
It's a universal constant. Fighters slap ass.
>>
No. 59094 ID: fa9f7e

>>59093
Well.. uh, they're a cuddle hive, so wouldn't they grope each other?

...Yeah, let's just slap ass.
>>
No. 59095 ID: e3f578

>>59094
They're not a cuddle hive, that's just a derogative term the warhive uses. They can defend themselves plenty and CAN fight back.
I mean why would they train anyone tough like Polo if they really were nothing but cuddly?
>>
No. 59096 ID: fa9f7e

>>59095
I'm aware, I was joking. And the answer is stealth cuddles, of course. Before the ability to turn links off, other neumono always knew you were coming, so you couldn't glomp them. Now Polo can.
>>
No. 59097 ID: d6c330

Look, if you two want to suggest crass forwardness and inappropriately timed ass slapping, well fine. You do that. It's part of the game.

Stop trying to make this weird argument that it's somehow normal, universal, expected, appropriate or whatever in this situation.

>cuddle hive
It started out as an insult by the war hive. We've kind of adopted it ourselves as a badge of pride since then. It's our word now, bitches.
>>
No. 59098 ID: fa9f7e

>>59097
Stop taking me so seriously. I don't blame you for taking my first few posts seriously, but the whole "glomp training" thing should have tipped you off. Also, there was my atrocious attempt at a joke in the first couple of posts.

Of course, I suppose you could have missed it, so uh... yeah, I'm just bullshitting. Dunno about Dirtbag.
>>
No. 59099 ID: e3f578

the weird argument is part of the fun
>>
No. 59106 ID: e3f578

Oh god wow now rereading this chapter I realize something
Polo is now officially just like a mix of Solid and Naked Snake
We have a question asking a person over comm about the taste of exotic animals
We have her completely confused over some of her own behavior in the heat of the battlefield
We had her fight a mech on foot
She jokes about abstract concepts and in-jokes no one is going to understand
We had her sneaking through vents

All in this single chapter.
Yes
>>
No. 59118 ID: b6edd6

>>59106
What does that make Rokoa?
>>
No. 59119 ID: e3f578

>>59118
Sniper Wolf/Otacon/Olga/Meryl/EVA/The Boss

All at the same time
>>
No. 59234 ID: d6c330

Okay, we've gotten warnings that we may want to keep Alison out of the next stage.

Personally, I have mixed feelings about that.

>Keep Alison out of the stage
+Keeps her safe
+Keeps everyone inside her head safe
-We miss out on experience
-We're not their to lead the team, survival becomes a problem for the RNG
-We lose face and potential recruits: we're the leader not willing to stand with those we put on the line.

>Alison goes in
+Freeroam and puzzle experience
+Access to our collective leadership and wisdom
+Better access to diplomacy and non-violent conflict resolution
+Stand by our people, help them get through
-We're putting our leader and entire base at risk
-We're potentially seen as reckless by friends, potential allies. Lost face.

I have to say, I'm leaning towards going in. But what happens if we keep Alison out? Will the perspective pass to someone else, or do we just twiddle our thumbs and fret and see who makes it through?
>>
No. 59235 ID: 085efe

> -We miss out on experience
> -We're not their to lead the team, survival becomes a problem for the RNG

Not if Arbiter goes and ghost talks to Alison the entire time.
>>
No. 59236 ID: 04b86a

>>59234
You're forgetting that Recluse has switched out one of his boons (probably block) for ghost talk, and we can easily give it to each of the Tier 2's going in as well, so Alison can keep in contact with at least five people at once, which makes the pros and cons look more like this:

>Keep Alison out of the stage
+Keeps her safe
+Keeps everyone inside her head safe
+Superior leadership abilities, due to being in multiple places at once
+-Reduced diplomatic abilities, due to not being there in person possibly making us look slightly cowardly
+-Some recruits may see us as cowardly, while those who know us and those who are corrected will see someone who's willing to put her people's safety above her own desires

>Alison goes in
+Better access to diplomacy and non-violent conflict resolution, due to being there in person
+Stand by our people, help them get through
-We're putting our leader and entire base at risk
-We're potentially seen as reckless by friends, potential allies. Lost face.
>>
No. 59238 ID: d6c330

If we could use ghost talk to run multiple people through in parallel, that would be ideal, actually. We've already seen alive people asleep can be ghost summoned, and ghosts can be in multiple places at once. If we pass ghost talk around, we could help everyone at once!

For one thing, assuming similar or identical puzzles, if we do them in parallel we can test multiple things out in one turn, instead of several.

We'd need to have someone else carry the spare memory locket to give to stage shopkeep if he needs it though.

...who actually has ghost talk right now? According to the wiki, it's just Alison. I thought Recluse and Arbiter did too.

>>59235
I think we should keep Arbiter out. We need him alive for Corruptor's logs. We need Alison alive for other things. Everyone else can still contribute as a ghost, morbidly.
>>
No. 59334 ID: d6c330

Crazy baseless theory:

Alison is the AI controlling the bugs. Why else do they do nothing but broadcast love and try to hug us?

(Obviously, the gun and rocket were just attempted to subdue or get to us when we resisted hugs).
>>
No. 59338 ID: 61e7f9

>>59334
Them Tom clones, man.
>>
No. 59339 ID: 61e7f9

AsteroidQuest Intermission 1-4 discussion here (Polo, Rokoa) incoming wall-o-text posting the short version

Just because they can't emphatically detect where Polo is does not mean they have not planned for her. Don't be overconfident. Expect a proper response and counter from your enemy.
>>
No. 59356 ID: b6edd6

I feel that Rokoa has been getting
>>/questarch/399130
somewhat
>>/questarch/402718
taller. :V
>>/quest/448321
>>
No. 59357 ID: fa9f7e

>>59356
I think she's squatting in the first image, second and third seem about as tall.

Although her boobs do seem bigger.

Taunt her about stuffing her bra, maybe?
>>
No. 59361 ID: d6c330

>>59356
Pretty sure Rokoa is sitting on something behind the barrel in your first example, look at the way her knees are bent. We don't know that the ground is level in the second example.

We do have some canonical numbers though
>I am around 104 centimeters. Rokoa, I estimate, is about 180 to 190
(That's about 3ft 5in and 5ft 11in to 6ft 3in, for non metric folks.)

A lot of the time whey they're around each other though, Rokoa isn't standing at her full height, and/or there's perspective, cropping, or stylization masking some degree of the height differences. So it can be surprising when we actually get a full body shot of them side by side.

>boobs
Obviously the form fitting bio armor is just more flattering. The purple rags were restricting them. As for the standoff outside the Salikai medical center, she's still recovering from a near death series of injuries, and regrowing her leg, among other things. She's probably down on biomass.
>>
No. 59362 ID: fa9f7e

>>59360
What about the bland tan outfit in the second link? It doesn't seem very restrictive.
>>
No. 59363 ID: d6c330

>>59362
I'll blame that on weight loss recovering from her massive injuries and leg regeneration after Polo blew her up. (I snuck an edit in to that effect *right* before you asked, apparently. :V).
>>
No. 59364 ID: fa9f7e

>>59363
She's still recovering, where'd her biomass come from all of a sudden? Did she get an ouch on her boobies?
>>
No. 59365 ID: bdb3f8

>>59361
nah man, that was a fairly recent height estimate. For the first two threads (asteroid, and intermission one) Rokoa was pretty consistently tall for a neumono, but noticeably shorter than an average human.
>>/questarch/378472
>>/questarch/382694
About a head taller than Kappi, slightly SHORTER than the red furred guards she destroyed at Iron Cove. She might have been as much as five feet tall, around 150 cm, but no bigger.
(I guess you can call "awkward posing" if you want, and if you do I can go through the entire thread pointing out each character's relative standing heights image by image and how consistent they are. These are just the only pictures of her next to a species that is a known baseline.)
>>
No. 59367 ID: d6c330

>>59364
Well, it's been a a week or two or three since then, right? Obviously she's been eating up in the meantime.

We've already seen the neumono body can be really flexible what with the rapid healing and limb regeneration. I don't find relatively rapid consumption and restoration of fat stores implausible. (Yes, totally hard science justification for variable boobies. Yup. Works fine, really).

It's also possible she's wearing some kind of support under her grey shirt, whereas I think you have to wear pretty much nothing under the bio armor so it can bind properly.
>>
No. 59368 ID: d6c330

>>59365
So make her a few inches shorter than Polo's low estimate and it still works. Guessing high isn't a hard mistake to make, especially when you're looking up at someone.

Still, guessing sizes across threads form just the art is kind of difficult. The proportions aren't even the same (look for instance, at how much of Rokoa's leg her foot/toes take up then as compared to now). You have to account for some amount of art evolution, and that some frames are more stylized than others. Rigid proportional accuracy is put below delivery and effect pretty regularly.
>>
No. 59369 ID: bdb3f8

>>59368
It's not "a few inches," it's three times the range band given for Polo's estimate, and the difference between staring at her neck and staring at her crotch. Which, incidentally, is the difference between the first and third images Zig posted.

Lagotrope has occasionally complained about trying to keep Rokoa on model in IRC, I think this is just one more thing that has been evolving.
>>
No. 59370 ID: e3f578

If this is the true correct model or size of Rokoa, I sure hope Kappi was on top.
>>
No. 59372 ID: b85f8c

Lagotrope has told me Rokoa is supposed to be around 6 feet tall, and Polo is about 3'5".
>>
No. 59377 ID: b6edd6

>>59369
>Over the course of the quest, gone from staring at her neck to staring at her crotch
How fitting :V
>>
No. 59380 ID: 733ae0

Polo is the same size as Strawberry Shortcake.
She could ride a pony.
This is hilarious.
>>
No. 59382 ID: fa9f7e

>>59380
Polo is best pony

Oh god, why do I have the compulsion to draw a light blue pony with floppy rabbit ears


...What would Polo's cutie mark be?
>>
No. 59388 ID: 886a4d

Sniper Rifle... or bow and arrow. Or maybe something represeting stealth.
>>
No. 59389 ID: b33427

>>59382
Cloak and dagger, maybe?
>>
No. 59390 ID: d6c330

>>59382
Her symbol would be Silence.

Depict it as a stylized speech bubble, crossed out. With a sniper rifle (like on a coat of arms).

Well, that or a slice coffee cake.
>>
No. 59392 ID: fa9f7e

>>59390
Coffee cake wins.


I swear, if I ever get around to being able to post drawings on here, I will do this.

Feel free to remind me about this.
>>
No. 59513 ID: 04b86a

Hey, I just came up with a new way of farming CU!

1) Get two tier 3s, one with persistence and a tier 3 boon and the other with Absorb: Boon and an empty slot.
2) Have them duel and the one with persistence die
3) Have the person with Absorb: Boon get the tier 3 boon
4) Sell the tier 3 boon to the shop for 250,000 CU
5) Repeat ad infinitum

If gaining Double Move II through absorption also gives you Double Move I, then the absorbee should have both of those and we can get 500,000 CU per absorption.
>>
No. 59514 ID: b6edd6

>>59513
You can't sell Tier 3.
>>
No. 59515 ID: 04b86a

>>59514
Snuggler can refund boons for half the shop value.

Refund Boon: The user may get rid of one boon and receive 50% of its CU cost back.

Of course, we need to never mention this outside of our home, lest the System find out about it and get rid of Absorb: Boon.
>>
No. 59741 ID: d6c330

Thought up something we should test when we hit the next safe zone. Can't test this in the dream world, because even people without communication skills can talk there.

We know in a future stage communication is going to be disabled. We should test how that can be bypassed- can someone who sells off their communication skills still understand the non-verbal battle language we've developed? Can they still understand "speech"?

Only problem is I'm wondering if someone with no communications can interact with smuggler to buy them back. I suppose if they can't we could always hop back to the dream house, and do the transaction where the environment offers free communication.
>>
No. 59764 ID: f09b71

>>59741
Although it's included in the shopkeep flash and is often done in the same transactions for simplicity, statlines (including communication) can be bought in any safezone or stage checkpoints at any time, only boons/items/tier3/sellbacks and other side stuff actually need the smuggler/shopkeep.
>>
No. 59924 ID: 61e7f9

>>59764
Hi Polo. You seem to be popping up everywhere. How'd you manage to get inside the program?
>>
No. 59936 ID: f70d8a

Hey, so how do you pronounce neumono? Is it like, NOIse (like German neu), or like "new", or like nay-oo-mono?
>>
No. 59940 ID: f09b71

>>59924
Another glitch I'm sure.

>>59936
It is like the 'neu' in 'neuro', and mono as regular.
>>
No. 60016 ID: 61e7f9

>>59940
new-moe-no
>>
No. 60041 ID: c6ec33

>>59940
nuh-mawno? :V
>>
No. 60048 ID: 2f4b71

IPA: /'njʊəmɒnɒ/ ?
>>
No. 60061 ID: d7361e

>>60016
I've been pronouncing it in my head as new-mon-oh. Whether or not that's right, I have no clue.
>>
No. 60072 ID: 1b5014

>>60048
>/'njʊəmɒnɒ/?
I would guess /nʊə'mɒnoʊ/, since "neuro" is more commonly pronounced without the glide, "mono" usually ends with a long O, and I can't imagine it would be stressed on the first syllable.

LAGO DO YOU KNOW IPA
>>
No. 60075 ID: f09b71

I have never even heard of IPA, and I realized that there would be different ways of pronouncing both neuro and mono, negating my brief explanation, so let me elaborate.

The eu in neumono I pronounce similar to "ew", so it would be a cross perhaps between 'nyoo' and 'noo'.

And the 'mono' I pronounce as, as someone put it 'moe no'.

But! That is how I pronounce it, and the etymology of neumono literally is a combination of "neuro mono", so the manner of pronunciation is actually dependent on how those words are pronounced, so some variance is acceptable. I didn't have a 'right' way to pronounce it in mind. If there was a right way, then it would depend on the right way of pronouncing those two words (or word and prefix), if there is one.
>>
No. 60144 ID: f70d8a

Ok, cool. Thanks!
>>
No. 60179 ID: 3d5e72

FYI Lago: Jim called your quest update happening as soon as you got home.
At 6:40 - Jim: I bet Lago just updated.
At 6:29 - Asteroid intermission updated.

I think Jim wins this round.
>>
No. 60254 ID: 61e7f9

Do we need to worry about the "enemy" queen in Asteroid Intermission 1-4? Their hive is trashed. They aren't going to be attacking anyone in this shape and could easily be wiped out by conventional means. Our hive is safe. If the objective was to prevent this hive from attacking ours, that is completed. Another threat has arisen, the salikai. We must deal with it.

I think there are better things to do than try to kill the queen of a near-dead hive.
>>
No. 60255 ID: d6c330

You're forgetting why we did this. The war hive was always going to be trashed. They found themselves pinned between too many pissed off rival neumono and the spire facility. We had already won- it was just a matter of time. The truce was just an attempt to spare lives- mostly for the war hive. Let them leave instead of grinding them to pieces.

Removing the Queen doesn't stop them from being a threat to us. It stops them from being a threat to themselves. Rokoa doesn't think her hive can survive under her Queen's leadership. Pilon conceded very much the same thing- staying loyal to her puts your loyalty to the hive in question, since you may well be condemning it to death. We're trying to save these guys.

Then of course there's the personal vendetta angle- Queenie started this whole war, ordered two nukes on Polo's home, ordered Polo killed and a truce betrayed. She deserves to pay for that.

Finally- this is our mission. Polo is the determinator. She gets the mission done. After a month MIA in the spire? She comes back- all teammates accounted for, and with the goddamn moltron egg. We gave our word to Rokoa- we're not going back on it. We committed. Queenie dies.

The Salikai did cross a line with their monstrous mind control bugs. They're next.
>>
No. 60256 ID: 886a4d

>>60255
Pretty much this.
>>
No. 60285 ID: 61e7f9

>>60255
Ok, good point. The queen is a threat to their own hive. And is a penis. We can go after her. I'm confident it's suicide.
>>
No. 60287 ID: d6c330

When was the last time Polo wasn't in near suicidal danger? If we cared about safety, we would have got her home when we had the chance, not sent her on to fight the entire war hive by herself (or avoided any number of other crazy risks we took earlier).
>>
No. 60299 ID: e3f578

>>/quest/451338
well, CAI's have our kind of eccentric mindset right?
If we were the CAI, and Polo introduced herself as crazy and adorable, how would you react given that you've probably gained a lot of info on her from reports in that underground colony?
Remember, we're dealing with basically ourselves here. We know everything it would do. Strange isn't it?
>>
No. 60308 ID: f2c20c

>>60299
It's us under the thumb of the Salikai, who we don't know all the goals of or the tools they have available. We know they want to escape and make sure nobody follows them, and they seem to want Rokoa for SCIENCE purposes, but the resources and methods they have to do so are unknown to us, and they might have other goals besides.

Also we don't know how loyal and/or restricted the CAI is.
>>
No. 60315 ID: 976f95

>>60308

Essentially this. While they behave in method like us - Their motives are completely unknown to us. We don't know how much they've already seen, heard, etc. I was just a little worried that if Polo went -too- quirky it would seem off - but I'm likely wrong! Our determinator is already quirky enough. I will admit to being overcautious especially when stakes seem high!
>>
No. 60317 ID: e3f578

Can a CAI truly have a single motive though? It's a bunch of AI in a single place with different desires. I mean hell, you get a few AI on our side of theirs, they'll constantly bug the shit out of the salikai-loyal AI. I mean I'm all for being careful with an AI with multi-personality disorder, but I think when dealing with those, alliances don't mean jack shit. Some of it may even be suicidal and not give a shit about its continued existence.
Hell, it's more of a danger to the Salikai than it is to us right now it's so fucking erratic. Why does the salikai trust it? Just how many neumono stripdance for it on a daily basis? How many arkots does the salikai let it dress in frilly clothes? You have to appease a CAI to have it help you or let it boss you around to get it to do what you want it to do.
Oh my god this must be where Rokoa learns how to interact with CAI so well. I knew she was too good at manipulating us. We're gonna teach Polo how to treat CAI, and by proxy teach Rokoa. It's a manipulative paradox.
>>
No. 60928 ID: 886a4d

possible stat allocation with delim x 2

----------------

Scanner

Immunity 2
Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Body \ Armor \ Weapon 3

--
Clarence

Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Body \ Armor 2
T3 Weapon 1

--

Healer

Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

T3 Knockback (heals and knocks the enemy away! At range at that)

T3 Body \ Armor 3
T3 Weapon 2

----

Gaurdsman (lets make him even more deadly! Defence? He don't need no stinking defence.)

T3 Weapon 20
Bounce 1

----

Scholar (doesn't really need an upgrade so ignore if we get low on cash)

Immunity 2
Damage Reduction 3
Damage Increase 4

Summon Ally 3

T3 Body 9
T3 Armor \ Weapon 8

---

Atlas \ Strongarm (these guys are movers, so to increase their potential movement I had an idea!)

Protector 2
Summon Ally 3
Create Light Trail 3

T3 Body \ Armor 11

--

Snuggler (again hes pretty much Dream Bound so ignore if we start to get low on CU)

Increase Damage 4
T3 Range 2
T3 Knockback

T3 Body \ Armor 8
T3 Weapon 7
>>
No. 60929 ID: 1987d1

I have no objections to hose improvemtns. Although maybe we should see what Scholar's been up to? It's been a while. I wonder if he drive to learn drew him into working on one of our research projects? (With Engie, or Historian or something).

>Snuggler (again hes pretty much Dream Bound so ignore if we start to get low on CU)
We may not want to leave him dream bound.

After stage 8, the living members of our group are gonna be separated into dreamers, who are functionally dead (since they can't enter the waking world without getting insta killed- unless we have Glitcher fabricate false pass tokens or something) and runners, who can do stages and still visit the dream house (or covert to dreamers).

But if the sleep ban goes into effect, runners won't be able to go to sleep, and only able to communicate with dreamers via ghost talk.

So the important question: can a ghost merchant merch? If not, we need to make Snuggler a runner, otherwise we lose access to him as soon as the sleep ban kicks in.
>>
No. 60930 ID: 886a4d

One of the questions I asked that never got answered was if Alison's merchant could be enabled. That would solve that paticular problem nicely.

One way to prevent dream sleep from being banned is to never abuse it beyond recruitment. What does the system care if we take out competition before the stage even begins? Thats one of the reasons why we'll only be using ghost talk on dead people.
>>
No. 60937 ID: 886a4d

I just had a thought. Both the experiments being performed are supposed to be impossible. That is merging the System and the Contest CAI creation together as well as the upgrade process. What if the Glitcher, the Corrupter and the Saviour are injected to make sure that happens or to prevent it.

Corrupter. His ability is to make people like him. System and Contestent alike. Hes built specifically to get the two to cooperate. He is the merger element. Injected by the creators of this experiment.

Saviour. He is the anti-corrupter. My guess is hes to prevent the merger from suceeding by removing as many elements as possible into his sanctuary and killing the Corrupter. He most likely was injected by the CAI after the initial creation.

Glitcher. He was put in with the Corrupter to give him an edge as well as combat the Saviour and the system when it begins to fight back as it quickly begins to overpower the Corrupter in later stages. Hes to ensure the upgrade process works. He most likely was injected by the creator.
>>
No. 60940 ID: f2c20c

>>60929
Savior told us that after stage 8, we can have people come and go from the dream sanctuary without worry. So we should be fine.
>>
No. 60941 ID: 6a1ec2

>>60937

Savior said, if his ability worked, then it would have become apparant in the very first stage. What he's doing now is not related to the Corruptor but simply trying to make the most of what he considers an already hopeless situation.
>>
No. 60947 ID: f2c20c

>>60941
He said, the first cycle.

Also, his anti-corruption ability being broken would match with Alison's logs. "THE SAVIOR IS BROKEN", after all.
>>
No. 60987 ID: 1987d1

It seems once again we're learning the hard lesson that every serious situation we go into escalates into something much worse than we were prepared for.

Interesting to note is we're being punished for trying the diplomatic route. We would have been better off to mash the button immediately, before reinforcements arrived. Although I suppose this is justified- our opponents know us now. They're using our predictable patterns of behavior against us.
>>
No. 60988 ID: 1987d1

Okay, because I want to respond to this, and I'm sick of cluttering up the main thread with non-suggestions.

Them:
>Reinforcements show up!
>Right, we're going to throw this CAI switch, and kill you with our reinforcements. Sorry, Naga Bitches.

Us:
>Wait! I bet if we throw our CAI switch, the reinforcements won't be in the fight.

...do you see the flaw in this logic? Why are we even arguing about this.
>>
No. 60989 ID: 04b86a

>>60988
Yes. You're assuming it's a CAI switch, when based on things Savior and Glitcher have said it's a let-the-reinforcements-in switch. I think Glitcher at least would know if anyone other than Sevener has been instigating CAI fights since we've scanned a few different notes, now.

On another topic, I'm curious about how this is apparently the first time we've both absorbed Glitcher and got the dream home. Did all of the previous Alisons with the dream home just not absorb Glitcher when he committed suicide?
>>
No. 60992 ID: 1987d1

Whatever. The best idea is still to push our button first whether or not theirs does the exact same thing. I really don't expect to not face the reinforcements when we do, but that doesn't change the calculus. It may give us an edge, but at worst we just break even.

As to your other point, Glitcher himself admitted he doesn't often share his ghost. Any loop where we manage to beat the Enforcer(s) without losing anyone to a rend, there'd be no need to absorb to investigate the rent ghost. And Glitcher commits suicide when he's handed a note- Alison isn't necessarily in the room every time.

I think it's more than just absorbing Glitcher and getting the dream house though. This is the first time we've done those things and managed to get through to him. A catatonic Glitcher isn't much use.
>>
No. 60993 ID: f2c20c

>>60992
I know one thing for sure. Even if we completely fail this cycle, the next feasible cycle will be better. We're covering new ground with Historian, uncovered Sevener's gambit, and found a foolproof method of relating that new information to Glitcher, along with urgings to not give up.
>>
No. 60999 ID: 886a4d

One thing I want to point out to Sevener is that they haven't been using these fights to train verse the CAI. They've been using them to train to beat Alison. A normal contestent whose only real virtue is she makes friends and allies very, very easily.

I seriously doubt when the final battle comes about they will have access to Enforcers, or multiple Administrators. There will be exactly 1 Administrator, and their core crew. Which puts them precisely in the same spot the Contestents are at. Practically alone, verse the vastly more powerful CAI.
>>
No. 61000 ID: 886a4d

Oooh another thought. Sevener has been using logs to defeat us. Why couldn't an Administrator use the same thing to become the Stage 11 Administrator consistently. That is the Administrator we want to talk to about allying.
>>
No. 61007 ID: 1987d1

> Why couldn't an Administrator use logs to become the Stage 11 Administrator consistently.
I'm pretty sure that's already what Sevener is doing. The most capable admins are the ones who survive. Seems to me going above and beyond the call of duty to eliminate rogue players is gonna give Sevener an edge in selection, if it doesn't outright allow him or her to eliminate competition.
>>
No. 61013 ID: f2c20c

I'd like to note here that Radmin was never able to use the log function. Why is that, I wonder? I thought it was due to it only being available to contestants that get blank cards and become Admins, but Sevener is able to do it. Unless Sevener used to be a contestant, something ODD is going on. Like, admins would not be created equally.

Perhaps all those who are able to create logs are those who are part of the original CAI?
>>
No. 61014 ID: 886a4d

Glitcher said 6 and up can create logs. My guess is Radmin never gets a chance. He is ALWAYS in our bracket and we probably always raid it, or he dies during the merge. Pretty much the same reason Sevener gets so experianced verses us. She fights us, survives leaves a log hinting at how to do it. The next Sevener builds on that and so on.
>>
No. 61026 ID: f2c20c

>>61014
Ah, we could confirm that by asking Sixer if they ever had any logs, or if they managed to leave one before in his last stage.
>>
No. 61029 ID: 1987d1

Glitcher's exact wording was
>anywhere between a stage 6 and 10 gives the ability to leave a log.
Not sure if that means if varies by person or by cycle though.

And we asked Sixer if he had any logs right after we showed him ours.
>"I've looked at the logs function, but it is empty."
>>
No. 61041 ID: b6edd6

As far as I can tell, exploits (even large ones) only seem to be fixed when they are used to significant effect, and unlike errors the results of those exploits are not undone.
What if we were to apply the same principles to a Glitcher creation?
In particular, what if we were to create a novelty item that, when used, does something like resurrecting any number of people of our choice to any location in the area? Such items will obviously be watched for and deleted after we use one, but even a single initial use of an item like that can have enormous potential.
>>
No. 61044 ID: f2c20c

>>61041
If that's possible, then we might be able to get more troops in the real CAI fight... unless the nature of a CAI fight makes it impossible to bring new troops in at all.
>>
No. 61081 ID: 1987d1

Guys, I have this terrible fear Polo's going to get her ass handed to her, wake up beat half to death in the brig, with the ship in deep space.

Then after some fun torture, we crash into the asteroid.
>>
No. 61082 ID: e3f578

>>61081
Well, if we do succeed at least at killing the queen, who cares! Well, I mean, we obviously do, but still that at least means we might actually get to meet Polo on the Asteroid and see what she's up to.

Though, to be honest, if this entire things stops after killing the Queen, and it doesn't end up being a dramatic, elongated fight, Lagotrope won't have much work to do now. I don't know how he decides the success of some suggestions, either by his own decision or die rolls/card draws/random number generator. And if he does use dice, does he use modifiers to what he thinks are good and bad suggestions? Because stupid shit can sometimes succeed with a number generator. (That's my favorite part of rolling dies though, the unexpected actually has a good chance to happen, just like in real life!)
>>
No. 61083 ID: 1987d1

Actually, I think if we actually speed run the Queen before the others overwhelm us, Polo's odds of survival are worse. Calm minds might stop to think of taking her prisoners. But right after you witness an assassin blow up your Queen, right in front of you? They'll be out for blood. Grief, anger, and feelings of failure will all boil together. Unless Rokoa and Pylon are strong enough to emotional overpower what everyone else in the bubble is feeling, Polo will be dead.

I'm saying this looks like a losing battle, and I don't quite see a route to success.

As for how Lago decides things, I never got the impression it was dice (although I suppose it could be just well hidden). He seems to reward cleverness and lateral thinking more than lucky rolls (...not that there haven't been times we've been pretty lucky). The one rule you can reliably count on is that bad situations always escalate, fantastically.
>>
No. 61277 ID: e3f578

I'm going to miss Polo guys
So much, we knew this day would come
We knew.
>>
No. 61278 ID: 886a4d

>>61277
Same

I am ashamed but... Polo\Rokoa is my OTP

I've been wondering how Alison gets to the asteroid and now I'm now wondering if that doc that suicide bombed the bridge was the author of that CAI book the Historian is going through and he left the warhive a going away gift. I'm sure the Salikai wouldn't hesitate to try and improve CAI above all others to just have another edge, especially given how reliant they were on it.
>>
No. 61280 ID: e3f578

Have we ever had any solid evidence that the CAI with Alison in it is either on the Asteroid, partnered with the salikai, or are the same ones?
I'd like direct citations if anyone can get those, or has it all been just guessing thanks to the fact that the whole CAI story is probably relevant somehow to the other two stories told in this universe, like how Polo's story and Hok's story are connected to each other through Rokoa? The only solid thing we can actually guess is that Alison's double-CAI is being made in a neumono-based environment thanks to all those artifacts being around.

I doubt the CAI we were is the same as the one with Alison in it, I mean, we've been rebooted once because of corruption, yeah, but we were designed to run a freaking storage vessel, dropped in by a dead company. Why waste such an experiment on a goddamn vessel(Of course, the bigger question should be why put a valuble CAI in as a secondary helper in a storage vessel anyway. Not to mention, in Alison's quest, we haven't run into anyone named Winston, Elephant Guy, Dirtbag, Abeo, Juroko, yet in any of the stages, thank god) And the CAI running the salikai's base is very active, not in a storage vessel, and it would not be efficient to have a CAI that is a participant of an intense experiment to run a large facility.

Wait... did I say at the start of my middle paragraph that we lost our memory because we rebooted in the storage vessel due to corruption... my god. We are going to be fucking fighting ourselves guys. And all these neumono books we keep running across? We're currently studying the neumono and their culture to keep Kappi and other rogues safe for when the hive diplomats come for them! And the books and documents we're reading are seeping into the experiment! I speculate the CAI eventually got an avatar of Ryan Reynolds and is using it, judging how everyone jumped on that joke when it came. The final boss fight is going to be Ryan Reynolds vs Alison.
>>
No. 61282 ID: 4a328b
File 134864735055.png - (133.90KB , 360x3911 , AsteroidQuestIntermissionDeluxeReturnToTheAsteroid.png )
61282

Let's speculate on how Asteroid Quest continues now that INTERMISSION is over
>>
No. 61283 ID: 06ee8f

truly a masterpiece!
>>
No. 61284 ID: bf54a8

perfection
>>
No. 61291 ID: 62bab4

>>61277
Amen to this. Polo's my favorite quest protagonist by far, and I'm going to miss her. When we end up back on the asteroid, our number one goal is to find a way to either get off the rock and find her, or to engineer her showing up there somehow.

Our secondary goal is to find out if Pilon is in the asteroid hive (and if, in fact, the asteroid hive is the future exiled warhive). Then to robo-glomp him while exclaiming how beautiful his ears and eyes are.

It does occur to me we have a way to use OoC Polo information on the asteroid when dealing with the asteroid-hive now. We can just claim to have read Polo's book.

Although, this is more what I expect to happen.

Asteroid Question Intermission II: Revenge on the Salikai
Asteroid Question Intermission III: Polo! In Space!

>Have we ever had any solid evidence that the CAI with Alison in it is either on the Asteroid, partnered with the salikai, or are the same ones?
We have no evidence that the asteroid-CAI and the salikai-CAI are the same, nor that either is the same CAI Alison and co are fighting, nor that either might be Alison and co after succeeding, becoming a CAI, and getting mindwiped.

The closest thing we have to evidence is we know how long Alison's simulation has been running in real time (3 days, times the number of loops). We know the asteroid-CAI has been around about that long (decades) and the Salikai CAI probably has as well (assuming it's older than Korli). That's a pretty lose circumstantial connection though.

>>61282
...I love it that the rematch takes place while riding jumping sharks.
>>
No. 61293 ID: 0c7cf8

>>61277
I will as well. I really hope we see her again and I hope when we do she is like, full bad ass.

And then we have to fight her before we win her over.
>>
No. 61326 ID: 22b106

>>61293

>Fighting Polo
>Fighting Full Badass Polo who is a Veteran of the Salikai Hunt

It's like you WANT us to die!
>>
No. 61327 ID: 62bab4

>>61326
Full badass determinator Polo who always gets the mission done, and then some, exponentially.

Our only saving grace would be Polo has a habit of befriending people after shooting them.
>>
No. 61328 ID: e3f578

And this was Polo's first mission. Goddamn.
Medal of fucking Honor earned.
>>
No. 61331 ID: 6a1ec2

I want to see a thread with a Salikai as a protagonist.
>>
No. 61352 ID: 0f60d7

>>61331
So do I actually. Are they really sadistic monsters, or just on the bad end of an us-vs-them mentality?
>>
No. 61355 ID: 62bab4

>Are they really sadistic monsters, or just on the bad end of an us-vs-them mentality?
Well, we have kind of a limited sample size. All the ones we met so far have been from the same family and/or group. They seem pretty nefarious, but that doesn't necessarily make the whole species dickbags.

Not really interested in playing one though. I'd much rather see something set in a peaceful hive- give us a chance to see more neumono culture, figure more out about how intra-hive relationships work.
>>
No. 61360 ID: f2c20c

>"What?" Rakae goes off, obviously very displeased. "They're sadistic monsters. There's reasons why we've wanted them dead, and from what I know, the remaining ones want all of us dead. And you made a deal with one?! We should kill it."
>"I agree with Rakae." says Rikek. "From what I hear, they can't be trusted."

And as we saw in the quest, they are indeed quite sinister.
>>
No. 61361 ID: e3f578

All surviving ones probably been raised to hate neumono as much as many of the salikai's experiments, hearing of stories of old salikai greatness being stomped out by the neumono. There's equal hate and prejudice from both sides, of course the neumono going to make exaggerations about the whole race, and salikai culture may have completely different set of morals or philosophy that allows for brutal experimentation or vengeance, which we cannot really judge without being a salikai much like how we can't judge neumono for despising rogues, which as mentioned by Rokoa, seems to be a built in reactionary response as well as an emotional one.

This is why I think that the only way to convince the hive from the main quest about letting us shelter rogues is with the help of anthropologists, psychologists, and sociologists that have expertise in understanding the neumono, and with the help of professional debaters/diplomats that have experience in changing alien minds into something more agreeable to either their personal culture or a goal that's generally against the alien's culture. Any real good diplomat would have to have these qualities to be successful in their field, so there might be a good chance one's on the asteroid. All sorts of people are on this asteroid.
>>
No. 61367 ID: 62bab4

>we cannot really judge without being a salikai
That's silly. Playing a character isn't the only way to learn about them. You can learn plenty by just interacting with them (which, granted, we haven't done enough of).

Well, let's stop and actually consider what we do know about the Salikai.

They do have some pluses. So far as I can tell, they were honest in all their dealings with us. I don't believe Polo was ever explicitly lied to, and they honored every agreement we entered with them. At worst, they didn't tell us everything, and tried to push us into doing things we didn't want to.

Although, staying friendly aboard the warship and waiting to see how far we could push it before they did betray us seems like it would have been suicidally stupid. I suppose we could have sided with them completely, but that would have meant being complicit in getting the warhive killed, and possibly helping launch nukes again neumono we had no quarrel with.

For our part, I don't think Polo was terribly dishonest with them, either. I'd have to go back and check wording to be sure, but I think Polo only told them she intended to kill Rokoa (true at the time), she didn't promise to.

The whole facility setup was interesting. We met several Salikai, each in charge of their own zone (outer caverns, forest, lava, snow, etc) in addition to the Head. While the default security response was apparently to kill the intruders with swarms of arkots, each individual Salikai was more interested in breaking protocol to use the intruders to jockey for an advantage against his or her peers.

Looking at their track record: yes, they tried to kill us. We were intruders, though. Destructive, destructive intruders. Breeding an maintaining a menagerie of monsters isn't even that bad either- it's a valid means of self defense, if you can control them (arguably, perhaps more ethical than having a standard fighting force, as you're not putting your own people at risk. Of course, then we get into the thorny problem of juding the worth of 'lesser' beings, racism specism and slave-armies). I was even willing to overlook the 'pet' neumono (pinkie) hive, until we received confirmation they've abused and tortured them over the generations. The real kicker is the love-bugs though. Aggressive, offensive mind control tech is very nasty. Not to mention their willingness to nuke people who'd never done them any harm for the sake of a distraction. They also had a pretty callous disregard for their own troops (as we heard most blatantly in that last battle). Maybe the arkots are too stupid and well trained to care, but makes me wonder why the milkiks were loyal.

...although one thing that bothers me is we never found out how gender works for them. It still bugs me I don't know whether to use he or she for them. (Yet, somehow, I'm perfectly comfortable calling most Miklik's 'he' even though they're all hermaphrodites that spend most their time as neuters until they decide to grow a set of bits).

>Rogues
Actually, we're only really going off of Rokoa's, and the asteroid-hive's perception of rogues. Assuming the asteroid-hive is the exiled war hive, it makes sense they'd be fairly conservative and violent in their dealings with them. We never thought to find out how the more mellow hives treat them (although, we know from Rikek that off-world hives tend to be more tolerant, or at least, less violent).
>>
No. 61369 ID: e3f578

>>61367
>That's silly. Playing a character isn't the only way to learn about them. You can learn plenty by just interacting with them (which, granted, we haven't done enough of).

When I spoke of that, I was using academic logic. There's a term used in sociology called cultural relativism, which is the perspective that a foreign culture should not be judged by the standards of a home culture and that a behavior or way of thinking must be examined in its cultural context.

What I mean by that is that we cannot judge the salikai as a whole without being one, we can judge individuals of course, and choose to act against their interests. But we cannot judge the race, only the individuals and the actions they take. A lot of us can agree that sacrifice is pretty awful for example, and we can choose to intervene and save a sacrificial person from their fate should the occasion arise amidst a foreign culture, but our culture wouldn't be morally superior to the foreign culture, that can never be true. The person saving the sacrifice may be morally superior to the person that determined the sacrifice, but only if the sacrifice does not wish to die. I mean, hey, maybe the sacrifice wants to be sacrificed because that person believes it will help his people and maybe he gets a sweet afterlife for it. And the mind bugs, well, we can find that pretty sick and nasty when used against us, but who knows, if it's warfare between two salikai, it may just be par for the course and they're not all that horrible in each other's eyes (only if salikai soldiers are attacked by the mind bugs, they were not of course, but that may have been a unique case for this individual head salikai, seeing as how they are nearly extinct.) If, in fact, the salikai in general would only use mind bugs and similar practices against foreign races and not themselves (barring situations like the one in the quest where salikai have become very rare and they wish to preserve their race for future generations), only then they can truly be considered morally inferior.
>>
No. 61370 ID: 62bab4

>moral / cultural relativism
Yeah, that's a fair argument. I suppose I was thinking somewhat less big picture about it. I'm less interested in determining moral inferiority / superiority as I would be in determining motivations, goals, what we can expect from them, etc.
>>
No. 61371 ID: e3f578

>>61370
In my opinion, moral inferiority/superiority has similar context to figuring our what we expect them to do, as whatever they end up doing will then be judged on a moral level, as they have in the past. And this will in turn reflect on even futher future expectations.
But with the small sample size, we know what we can expect from the head salikai, who may be the last, so who knows? (Besides Lagotrope)
>>
No. 61425 ID: 733ae0

Salikai don't hate neumono because they have differing cultures or morals or they were taught that neumono suck or whatever, they hate them because the neumono have been killing off their species and the neumono are killing the salikai for the same reason homo sapiens drove neanderthals to extinction, they were competition.
99% of all conflicts have a geopolitical basis, morality is just something that's tacked on to help people feel better about being greedy.
>>
No. 61429 ID: c6ec33

The entire planet needs an external (non-native) mediating body to set up a peaceful solution whereby all sapient species on the planet are given the chance to coexist. Either that, or giving them safe passage off the planet.

It's somewhat creepy to look at the situation and compare it to real-world parallels...
>>
No. 62024 ID: 0dbe97

Alright, so Story Seeker only has so much in Chapter 4 to go, and I will be picking up UnSe again soonishly.

Which means I will probably make a new asteroid thread of some sort to run alongside UnSe, but with that said, Polo does have loose ends that can be worked with.

So the poll is this:

Asteroid Main Thread 2,
or Asteroid Intermission Epilogue Polo Sequel?
>>
No. 62025 ID: e3f578

>>62024
I figure the pattern should follow the seeming appearing standard
AST Main 1
AST First Polo Intermission
AST Main 2
AST Second Polo Intermission

So Main 2 would be good. I'm really curious how you've planned how to approach it since you said you're probably going the drop the AI perspective for a mental perspective of one of the characters, not to mention what's next for our little home away from home and its political situation amongst the asteroid.
>>
No. 62027 ID: e3f578

>>62025
I didn't put UnS in that pattern because there wasn't a vote for it, and assuming that Polo sequel would still be an option after Main 2 is done.
>>
No. 62028 ID: 86c3a7

Oh em squee, we get a choice?!

I have to vote Polo quest. Hands down my favorite quest protagonist. Let's go back, kick some monster but, rescue some Pinkie hive people.

If we went back to the asteroid, I'd just have the CAI start digging through the entertainment files looking for her cartoon, anyways. Or see if a copy of Polo's final report is laying around the asteroid's information nets anywhere so we'd have an excuse to apply all that OOC information against Rokoa.

I kind of expect to lose this, but we'll see. I'll be appeased if Pilon shows up on the asteroid though. (C'mon, who else is gonna be the hive's diplomat? He's the sanest and most talk-y person they've got! Assuming, again, that the asteroid hive is the future exiled war hive).
>>
No. 62029 ID: 86c3a7

>>62027
I think it's a fairly safe assumption UnS will continue in parallel, and that we'll get back to whatever part of the asteroid-verse loses the vote, eventually.
>>
No. 62032 ID: e3f578

>>62028
>I'll be appeased if Pilon shows up on the asteroid though.
My pornography opportunity I offered to him
it beckons on the horizon of canonicity
>>
No. 62040 ID: 6a1ec2

Asteroid Main Thread 2.
>>
No. 62043 ID: f2c20c

I gotta go with the main Asteroid. It's been long enough!
>>
No. 62044 ID: a5478c

Im gonna vote main thread. Metagamming aside, we've been too long off the asteroid (Assuming UnSe CAI isn't on it)
>>
No. 62046 ID: 86c3a7

I'm losing, but I'm going to take comfort in the fact I was right. That there's called hedging your emotions, folks.

>>62032
Maybe, just maybe, Pilon will be playable? )*0*(
>>
No. 62076 ID: 4a328b

I vote Main 2 + Polo Cameo

She doesn't even have to show up just show us what her cartoon turned out like or something
>>
No. 62091 ID: b3dd38

Asteroid main thread!!!!!
>>
No. 62111 ID: 997ce7

Main 2 +Polo cameo sounds good

If there's a way to work her in without also having her being stuck on the asteroid that is
>>
No. 62149 ID: 8b9215

Anything with Polo AND Rokoa in it :3c
>>
No. 62172 ID: 58396a

Not sure if it was ever specified, but what's the general lifespan of a nuemono?

Rokoa doesn't look all that "aged", so I assume 30 years isn't too big a deal.
>>
No. 62175 ID: f09b71

>>62172
With medical science as it is, around 225-250. Prior to medical science, around 150-175.

For reference sake, humans, at the current level of medicine, are around 150.
>>
No. 62198 ID: dcee26

We interrupt this discussion of Asteroid Quest to present a link relating to Unnatural Selection
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/10/11/physicists-may-have-evide_n_1957777.html
>>
No. 62210 ID: 0006f5

electron uncertainty is a tough one combined with Planck's extremely computationally demanding resolution are the only two things off from being almost certain existence is deterministic .. freaky stuff. also, isnt there the problem of the data operations being inherently larger than the computational allowance ? no, they could just be systematically reassembled or run at a excruciatingly slow clock speed couldnt it ..
>>
No. 62215 ID: 796eb0

The mental image of Kappi singing "What Makes You Beautiful" to (for?) Rokoa...

Adorable.
>>
No. 62220 ID: 26a7c1

>>62198
>Huffington Post
>news
>>
No. 62227 ID: 2f4b71

>>62198
That article is awful. Actual news: if the universe is a simulation, and if the simulation runs in a certain way (essentially cubic voxels of a very small size), then we have figured out that certain measurements would show artefacts of this. We know what measurements to take, but we have not taken them.
Basically, if the universe is one specific type of simulation, we know how to test for it.
>>
No. 62233 ID: 6a1ec2

>>62227

That small size being the Planck length, I assume?

On a (similarly unrelated to AQ but awesome) note, http://htwins.net/scale2/
>>
No. 62571 ID: e3f578

You know I just thought of something
This CAI fight is entirely intellectually based and has nothing to do with stats. It must've lost at least one fight this way, even with the alien rulesets since Sevener has some way of understanding the rules, so others that made it to the end must have means too. It's had to have fought almost as many times as there are cycles, 3,119 times. There is no way the CAI has a 3,119-0 win-loss statistic with this kind of battle, no fucking way. The odds alone at least support one win in this intellectual level unless it cheats or winning will not prevent the reboot.

Okay, it probably has been fought less than that. People have tried merging with it and just being passive about it, but the number of times fought is probably highest and in the thousands, which in my opinion, makes its perfect score pretty unlikely, next to impossible, in this scenario. There's something passed the CAI.
>>
No. 62572 ID: 44f93b

>>62571
You're overlooking the fact that whenever the 3'champions' choose to fight the CAI (which our logs suggest does not always happen) it's a 3 verus however-many-hundreds-or-thousands-of-voices-make-up-the-CAI fight.

Even if the players had a perfect understand of the rules and the CAI knew none of them, it would have enough of a lead in bodies to win by attrition, every time. But that's not the case- the CAI has the information edge too.

Even if the CAI doesn't win in stage 1 by burring the contestants in unexpected explosions, it could win in the freeroam stage 2 with a simple bum rush. Or hell, it could go right for sudden death and declare "hey, I win!" before the contestants even know the rules.
>>
No. 62573 ID: 04b86a

>>62571
This section is intellectually based. The next section is freeroam, where some stats will matter at least some of the time.

There's also the little matter of the CAI knowing the entire ruleset by now and having had plenty of opportunities to develop strategies, including opening moves for this area. Combine that with being able to trigger a CAI Fight emulation only being discovered in the past few hundred cycles and they had the advantage long enough to get very skilled in the early areas, and recently have been retaining their advantage long enough to start developing complex strategies for the later ones.

Section one is basically exploding chess. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAI's figured out a "checkmate in x moves" opening strategy by now.
>>
No. 62575 ID: 44f93b

>Section one is basically exploding chess. I wouldn't be surprised if the CAI's figured out a "checkmate in x moves" opening strategy by now.
...that's a good point. Section 1 could potentially be a solved game. With CAI level computation power and 23 years to work it out, if it's solvable, you can bet they went and solved it.
>>
No. 62576 ID: f2c20c

It can't be a solved game. Player turns are simultaneous and you can't predict grey placement.
>>
No. 62578 ID: e3f578

>>62572
>>62573
Hmm, I interpreted the CAI match on a one v. one basis, the CAI being an entire single bodied opponent with the mind of many. And the other two fight each other. then it's winner vs. winner.

Section 1
Everybody fights intellectually
Section 2
The winners of section one fight each other in freeroam (with stats? We've never seen the UI in our only freeroam fight, that was just a first attack quick kill as far as we know or that's at least what I remember. Boom, one shot, that corrupted was dead.)
Section 3+
Either unknown or impossible in the championship fight, so there's nothing past section 2
>>
No. 62579 ID: 04b86a

>>62578
Why would you assume the contestants would be enemies? It's a battle of sides, not a stage with one exit.

>Section 1
Yes, fighting intellectually evens things out a bit, but the CAI have the benefit of a lot of experience. Like I said, they'll have strategies to use that take advantage of how people will normally respond to attack pieces that go multiple moves ahead. Sure, we can do that too but they have them already made and that gives them an edge.

>Section 2
Yeah, it's true that how someone is damaged seems to matter a bit more than how much damage someone deals. Maybe. Gambler said that getting his foot cut off cost him 10 hp, and keep in mind that Alison had increase damage 4 and used double offense, so even if the Corrupted had damage reduction 2 he still would have died under normal rules.

Stats matter in other ways, though. Having a higher body stat makes you physically stronger and better able to keep functioning despite damage. Back in stage 5 someone lost a foot and had to crawl to get around, but when Gambler lost his he was capable of hopping around just fine, and said it didn't hurt as much as it should have. You also get weapon forms to switch between with higher weapon ranks making them more effective, and things like double jump, swap position, teleport, summon allies and float to help you move around. And those weapon forms can be pretty unconventional. We could get someone to make a flaming oil slick weapon form and another person that can unleash a wave of water to engulf them in a fireball for even more damage.

So, yeah, stats play a huge role in freeroam.
>>
No. 62581 ID: e3f578

>>62579
I just figured it that way for some reason. Like this is a championship and there can only be ONE or something. And in regular CAI production, all the voices are the ghosts of the absorbed with the different winner having an unknown effect on the CAI, potentially it's physical hacking power and ability set because it's the only body left. Like each ability and boon translates differently into the real world. Attack/Weapon is hacking, Health and armor is defense against hacking, resurrection might have to do with recovering lost assets in the CAI or fixing corrupted sectors that are different in nature than the Corrupter and his corruption (such as how our original incarnation in the main thread, I doubt my joke theory is in any form correct, about how we're the CAI in UnS and the final boss will be a Ryan Reynolds avatared CAI ), etc.
>>
No. 62582 ID: 44f93b

>>62581
From what we know, the CAI is made up a multitude of AIs- basically the same as Alison and co. The ones in the CAI have just been mindwiped. Logically, within the virtual space we've been playing unnatural selection in, I'd expect each individual CAI voice to be able to manifest individually.

>champions fighting each other
No. It was explicitly stated that in CAI battles you can't change sides, and that the winning side comes out with everybody alive. If the three have to fight, there would need to be a stage or something after the CAI.
>>
No. 62592 ID: e3f578

>>62582
Oh I see, I must have missed that factoid somewhere. Then that raises the question of how the three champions matter in the creation of a normal CAI, are they in fact all the voices? What happens to the losers, are they inside the three survivor's minds at the end? Or are the losers the voices and the winners something else?
What is the CAI's physical manifestation in this simulation? Is it all the dreamstate forms of the losers in combination with the three champions, making an army vs. the three champions, or is it just the three champions, technically making it an even fight between the two sides with one side of three (which is the CAI) vs the other side of three (which is the pre-CAI simulation contestants that hopefully includes Alison)?

>If the three have to fight, there would need to be a stage or something after the CAI.
This was my initial question and first concern, there's something after the CAI fight with the addition that there is finally something after the final champion walks out of whatever stage or fight is after the CAI. This was under the presumption that it wasn't champion side vs CAI side and that there are no sides at all, and instead was a technical free for all between the champions and CAI, champion vs. champion vs. champion vs. CAI with the CAI version of the battle going all tournament bracket style.
Going like this
Section one Champion vs. CAI (who is a singular manifestation in a single body with a lot of ghosts/advisers) Champion Vs. Champion
Section two Sec1 Winner vs. Other Sec1 Winner
This would then mean that only one walks out alive.
>>
No. 62597 ID: 44f93b

>>62592
>I must have missed that factoid somewhere.
I think it's either in Glitcher's or Savior's infodumps somewhere.

>Then that raises the question of how the three champions matter in the creation of a normal CAI, are they in fact all the voices?
It's possible, in the creation of a normal CAI, that more than three people make it to the end. Either that, or the process gets run a few times, until they collect enough winners to mindwipe, brainwash, and build a CAI from.

>What is the CAI's physical manifestation in this simulation?
I'm assuming the CAI operates mostly outside our virtual universe, and only needs to assume virtual bodies(s) when interacting with the contestants in the final fight. At which point the individual minds of the CAI probably look much the same as AI native to the simulation.
>>
No. 62625 ID: f2c20c
 

I wonder if this is how Pilon went rogue...
>>
No. 62626 ID: f2c20c

>>62625
Fuck, the embed didn't work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6rE0EakhG8
>>
No. 62627 ID: e3f578

>>62626
If that was true then the Pilon just pretty much took their hardest funders with him.
Like, the nutrigrain guy literally took the company's manager and their major investor with him. That would be like if Pilon felt so great he brought the Queen with him and stole all the hives money from the vault.

Then the current Queen for that Hive stepped in, that makes two Queen changes.
Yeah I'm fine with that, just combine all three of those people Nutrigrain guy brought with him into one and call that the Queen. Pilon just went up and started making babies with her right after robbing his entire Hive blind.
>>
No. 62656 ID: e3f578

I liked Agnes at first but now I'm kinda hating her.
I mean, well, threatening with weapons is funny, even if it's not a joke. But extortion is serious business. Tin's fees when we first met her were completely reasonable. And you know, Tin could fine us with fees I could respect, at least call them something. This whole entrance fee is bullshit though and too opportunistic to sit right. Fucking dress it up first at least Agnes like Tin did, goddamn.

Hok didn't even really need to go and risk his life transporting the replica, we could have just left it behind. He fucking earned that shit. We were lucky we managed to talk down Jells into joining, otherwise Hok would have been dead for merely a chance for 10k.
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No. 62803 ID: 1e7d43
File 135156324802.png - (122.48KB , 600x600 , Yani.png )
62803

"What is your name?"
>"Yani."
>>
No. 62848 ID: bdb3f8

>>62803
I get it!
>>
No. 62949 ID: f2c20c

Hey guys, I thought of a fantastic opening strategy for the CAI fight.

We attack the corners with same-color combinations in an attempt to cut the enemy's playing field in half. Then we do it again from the other direction. After that, the enemy is limited to a very small triangular playing area where we can set down explosions easily.

This is how Sevener opened up, isn't it?
>>
No. 63006 ID: e17663

>>62949
Don't say that yet! At this point it'll only give Lagotrope ideas.
>>
No. 63014 ID: 3338b5

Something I've noticed:

Since we've shifted away from Polo, and instead started riding around with Kappi, and recently Karri (maybe? I can't tell yet if we're actually controlling her, or doing a more third person thing) empathic descriptions have noticeably decreased. Polo kept us appraised of what the neumono around her were feeling almost continually- you expected it as part of the conversation. Kappi brings it up much more rarely, and it didn't come up between Karri and Pilon at all.

Interesting that the more loner personality, "emotional cripple" would be more in touch with those around her, huh?

I'm not sure if this is due to a difference in personalities (say, as a rogue, Kappi's much less in tune with those around him, and used to having nothing good to pay attention to), or the shift in narrative style (we were pretty closely integrated with Polo- to the point where we defined parts of her personality, whereas the interactions with Kappi have so far been more surface level), or something else though.
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No. 63025 ID: beeca1

Speaking of which, if we were so deeply ingrained as to be like parts of her personality, I wonder how our departure affected her.
>>
No. 63027 ID: 3338b5

>>63025
I think she'll be fine. We helped shape her, but she'll still be that person without our influence. (For instance- the video message to Rokoa. Exactly the kind of sneaky thing we might have tried, not to mention it shows her quirky sense of humor is intact).

She may have less irrationally disturbing trains of thought she has to fight off though.
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No. 63194 ID: c59939

Calling it now, Karri is Rokoa's kid. As you can see here, Lago totes confirmed it too.

[02:36] <Ficus> Lago, is Karri Rokoa's kid?
[02:36] <Lagotrope> I will neither confirm nor deny
[02:36] <Ficus> I will pretend you said yes
[02:36] <Lagotrope> I will neither acknowledge or ignore that
>>
No. 63195 ID: c1799b

Well I think I have a good idea as to who Karri's mom is its Rokoa.
>>
No. 63201 ID: 70c0f2

Well, it has been the best explanation as to why she'd want to beat the shit out of Rokoa, and it would explain the anger, irritability, how she ended up as one of tougher of the bunch, and it would explain why Pilon and the rest of them are reluctant to talk about it.

Given Rokoa's own past though (her won childhood, and after the loss of her other children) it kind of doesn't make sense that she'd leave the kid with Pilon, or that she'd still apparently think well of him. (Unless she just accepted that there was no way a child half her and half rogue was going to fit into a hive she already had trouble fitting into?).

Honestly though, as much sense as it makes, I'm somewhat unhappy with this theory. Because it means that at some point Rokoa and Pilon slept together. And that kind of skeeves me out, for whatever reason.

>Your fur and ears... you definitely are closer to your mother's
This actually throws the biggest wrench into it, though. Rokoa's ears round and narrow at the end- Karri's are flatter and broader when they terminate. And Pilon and Rokoa's fur was pretty close in coloration- whereas Karri is a lot light than either of them.

Although Karri does have a similar facial profile.
>>
No. 63215 ID: b5fcb9

At the end of the first thread, Rokoa told Kappi that she had fallen in love with three others, all of them rogues. Two of them were dead, but she said nothing of the third. If Rokoa found Pilon on the asteroid, he's probably that third rogue.
There's nothing about Karri's appearance that says she isn't Rokoa's kid. Both Pilon and Rokoa have big ears and grey fur. If Karri wore a rigor mortis grin all the time, it'd be a dead giveaway.
When Pilon said Karri wanted to fight Rokoa to prove her strength, Karri was still within earshot. He probably didn't want to set her off by saying that Rokoa was her mother. In fact, Karri's reaction to Rokoa seems like that of a hive member to a rogue. Like her family is a hive and she's resentful that Rokoa left them.
>>
No. 63231 ID: e3f578

Karri's mom is Pilon's lady clone.
She technically has no mother. It's a lady Pilon. She has two daddies, or really well one since it's a clone. And some genes got differentiated because of hybrid genetics going wonky.

Clones aren't incestual guys. But some think it is, which is why it's a touchy subject. Obviously.
>>
No. 63235 ID: f2c20c

>>63215
Rokoa knew Pilon before the asteroid, and they were not in love. They probably had Karri on a whim.

This brings up an interesting point. What happens when a rogue and a hivemember have a kid? Is it impossible for them to grow up as a member of the hive? How does that sort of hive connection develop anyway? I know Rokoa got stolen then recovered... would she have been a better 'fit' if she hadn't been stolen in the first place?
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No. 63244 ID: e3f578

For a serious post of mine for once, I don't think Rokoa is the Mom simply because of her past experience with her kid and how touchy a subject it's always been for her, even years ago when she met and conversed with Polo.

Since having a child is within complete control of the female, even a fling with Pilon wouldn't have produced a child, she would have to want one. And bear the fact she'd be carrying his child, someone she didn't love. I mean, maybe Pilon just likes having a bunch of sex for procreation because that's his sick fetish and with how many he's had, and mostly are probably all from different mothers, he obviously doesn't think love's a big issue for sex. He's just all about the baby making. Rokoa has to have a form of interest in the person to have sex from what we can tell, and even if she does have plenty of absolutely meaningless flings, it is obviously not for procreation.
>>
No. 63245 ID: 70c0f2

>>63244
I agree with the assessment on Rokoa, but I think you're being a little rough on Pilon. He's obviously just an irresistible charming stud. Who then goes out of his way to take care of the children his partners chose to have.
>>
No. 63263 ID: e3f578

>>63245
I never said he wasn't a cool individual who is an irresistible stud or a good father. It's just that he has a sick fetish is all.
Reproduction.
>>
No. 63265 ID: 70c0f2

>>63263
It doesn't even have to be his obsession, though.

The way neumono biology works, a short term fling could result in the female producing children for years after, if she so wanted. They can store up and save every single sperm(ball), after all, and deploy them at will.

Pilon's problem isn't that he's obsessed with reproduction- it's that he's so awesome that anyone he's ever with can't stop having his babies afterwards. It's just an effect he has on people!

...it's like he's some crazy memetic vector for Every Sperm is Sacred in addition to being a hunk.
>>
No. 63299 ID: e3f578

I just figured out a new Rokoa mission if we get out of this alive.
Acquire the heads of the Zozu family heads. Jolly Cooperation with Karri optional, it'll be like old times with Polo. Two people that have a desire to kill each other working together for a greater justice.
>>
No. 63300 ID: 70c0f2

>>63299
Hey, you killed our people and fucked up our cursed godsdamned escort mission even further. So, to make things even, we've sent you a Rokoa-gram. Enjoy!
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No. 63327 ID: e3f578

Is anyone weirded out that the bitch we just beheaded because we thought she's a psycho bitch that supported the killing of a bunch escorts is actually slightly alright here before this shit got started?
She can eye and identify a creep like Reddude and be offended by him like an actual normal person, but will just go straight into just slaughtering a whole bunch of escorts for no real practical reason, it isn't even to send a message or to just to get the gold, they're going for 100% casualties on what is just hired guns and she supported it.

I mean, yeah, Jessica has only had a few lines in this "just before Zozu went foam-mouthed" intermission that indicate some normalcy but doesn't really fill out her character, but I get this feelign that this just ain't right. Zozu even mostly respects family (some of the time), I can see them as professionals that aren't particularly pointlessly cruel. Just what's the deal? Why so much money per head for some dumb mercs?
>>
No. 63329 ID: 70c0f2

>>63327
People are still people, even if they're people who oppose you, or trying to kill you. More often than not, people you fight are just going to be on a different side, or have different priorities, perspective, or loyalties. You don't get the nice moral justification of fighting entire armies of irredeemable sadistic rapist crazies all the time. Even if your enemy employes some of them, you can't count on the enemy being a complete monster either.

Really, that's the whole reason I advocated so strongly for having Polo go out of her way to save the war hive from the war they started. They were the enemy- but they were still people. And heck, and even earlier, we were discussing the relative moral position of the Salikai- how from their position their actions could be justified. So no. I'm not surprised to see the girl we killed wasn't a complete monster.

Generally, my position in most quests is to advocate non-lethal take-downs when possible. Most people really don't deserve to die. There are of course exceptions- people we explicitly want dead, or who we can't afford to be merciful to.

In this particular case- I personally didn't advocate killing Jessica because I thought she was some irredeemable psycho bitch doing something reprehensible. It was a pragmatic, tactical battlefield decision- she was the enemy, she wasn't willing to give quarter, she didn't have the authority to negotiate, she wasn't useful as a hostage, she was shouting defiance in our face, and we were in no position to take prisoners. So we had to kill her, and get on with the business of securing our position and staying alive in the middle of an attack.

Consider her position: she worked for an unforgiving criminal gang. The plan was to seize the base and the cargo when it arrived, and to kill the people transporting their stolen goods. She had her orders, and every reason to want our guys dead, and think it was reasonable to kill us. She wasn't in a position to negotiate or let us go, and she had little to no incentive to do so and defy orders.

The thing that really wasn't smart was her response to our threat- instead of trying to stay alive, she basically signed her own death warrant (it's not like telling us they were gonna kill us all no matter what would get us to surrender or spare her or anything. In fact, if anything, it gave her further reason to kill her). My best guess is she thought she was good as dead already, so she might as well use her last words to tell us to go fuck ourselves.

>Why so much money per head for some dumb mercs?
I have two guesses. (1) It gets rid of us without risking their own people, and it shows them who the most dangerous and competent people are in the base they just conquered. (2) The gold itself isn't so important as the principle of the thing. They want to make a point that people can't steal from them. If they don't, their rep suffers, and it hurts them more in the long term.
>>
No. 63330 ID: f2c20c

>>63329
I think you've got the right perspective.
>>
No. 63331 ID: e3f578

>>63329
Yeah, I guess my big problem is that Zozu is paying that much.
We didn't steal anything, hell, Piles didn't either (probably). We're just transporting it.
I just never saw it as reasonable to kill us since we're all third parties in the crime. And the way this asteroid is, it has to be well known that third parties take this kind of shit up all the time without asking much questions, because that's really the only line of work. If they attack a third party in self defense or only as much as necessary, then it's completely reasonable to draw third party causalities. This is not the case of either, there was no negotiation with the third party like Supernova did. I feel like this is not considered good politics in the criminal underground. Now, if Zozu has a reputation for being really bad at the criminal politics, then I'd understand completely. But there's professionalism in their organization, which they would have to have to survive on this rock in order to not have everyone gang up on them because they don't act professional in the political environment. Criminals generally follow code to minimize casualties and avoid mob wars. You're supposed to backstab each other, quickly, efficiently and quietly if you want to get shit done in the criminal political setting. This is not any of those three things. Because these are third party contractors. Your supposed to send the message to the first party that did the crime by doing horrible things to them, not the third party contractors. That's better business.
>>
No. 63333 ID: 70c0f2

>>63331
I agree that what you're describing would be the more profession and pragmatic way to operate, and really how we would do things in their position. It is better business.

We don't really know Zozu well enough to know why they don't operate that way though. Possible guess: the sting operation could be the result of the new manager, who from his orders and underlings seems a lot more ruthless and less professional than the Zozu norm.

It could also be they didn't know about the chain of custody (we did pose as the sellers, not the escort), or that they didn't care. While going easy on third parties does make sense, they could have been using a more scorched earth intimidation based approach: anyone who touches our stuff, ever, dies. First parties, third parties, whatever. It's a good way to make sure no one steals from them, and that no one wants to help anyone who does.

As for the sheer ridiculous value of the bounty they put on us? I'm guessing it's that big because they don't plan to pay out. They'll let people kill themselves coming after us, or if they succeed, they execute the potentially dangerous individual instead of paying them.
>>
No. 63336 ID: e3f578

I hope that if Itchy lives long enough for this story to run parallel to the present we can get the chance to get him to make commentary over this to his manager.

> It's a good way to make sure no one steals from them, and that no one wants to help anyone who does.
No, it's a goddamn good way to make enemies. Remember if we make it back alive our intentions is to send goddamn Rokoa after them. They don't know that, but they will rue the day it happens. And then they'll know who not to fuck with. It'll be us that sends the message, not them.
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No. 63337 ID: 70c0f2

>>63336
Eh, it's kind of like a bluff. It works best if no one calls it. If someone does, yeah, it makes you enemies, or potentially escalates into a mutually assured destruction scenario. It's hardly foolproof- but it would work so long as you're tough enough that no one wants to bother fucking with you.

The problem here was we went in ignorant- there was no chance for us to be scared off by the Zozu connection. And now both sides are locked into a fight.
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No. 63348 ID: 70c0f2

You, know, I just a weird thought. Red is kind of like a bizarro Polo.

Fiercely determined short neumono, same ear style, red instead of blue, gender swapped, kick ass unstoppable with hand to hand instead of guns, and aggressively (negatively) personable instead of a kind emotional cripple. And people are creeped out by the vibes they do pick off him- not the ones he's not. He's like her evil opposite.
>>
No. 63497 ID: e3f578

Anyone got a plan for when we deal with Karri as Itcher?

I think it might be possible to simply have them hand over the gold and that's it? We kill, incapacitate, or form a deal with the spade guy's escort, keep him alive, ask Karri simply for the gold free of charge and they can sell the rest of his shit and we go easy peasy.
If these are all third party contractors, this is possible. If any of the escorts or the spademan are first party, this is obviously impossible and we'll have to fight Karri for the gold.

We can also just get rid of spade guy and escort and try and steal the gold back. Or just get all of the spade guys zeny, give it to Karri and get all the gold without spending a single cent along with a bunch of other materials.
>>
No. 63498 ID: 70c0f2

I don't think Karri's team will be the problem. We already established characterization that her motivation here is just to get the money and go home, and to keep her people safe. Even if the circumstances change, that's still going to be the way she thinks.

The bigger problem, I think, is Maklata is gonna screw it up. Most the muscle is gonna be his guys- including Malsen. Maklata is likely going to have already killed the original buyers (who he would have picked out to act as fall guys anyways). That or he'll order us to kill and replace them. He'll also likely order us to kill the thieves (Pile's group). Pile's incompetence suddenly makes sense- Maklata picked idiots to get killed for the job. They were never working for whiskers, and they never knew.

The wrench in the system is Maklata wasn't expecting his fall guys to hire a bunch of competent added muscle (Karri's group). Or, he was, and that's how he's planning to get Itcher's group killed, and why he has backup ready to storm the base and finish the job.

I'm not sure how the hell we can keep both sides happy. How do we survive defying orders? How do we pull off defying orders when our escort and backup is going to be loyal to the person we're disobeying? We can try to complete the deal with Karri honestly, but that is gonna be tough with everyone else in the room itching for the order to fire. Itcher's team is gonna be left with little choice but to join in or surrender when the shooting starts.

Unless we can find a way to stop things before the shooting starts. Alter the circumstances of the trade off somehow- so it's not a bar full of goons waiting to get fight and get killed.

Hopeful aside- we pull this off and Wendel might not die!
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No. 63503 ID: 70c0f2

Looks like I was wrong about Whiskers not being involved. He just ganked Maklata's stolen gold.

Looks like we still have a few in-universe days before we make it to that bar (assuming the timeline hasn't changed away from that outcome, yet).
>>
No. 63510 ID: 70c0f2
File 135277440052.png - (181.08KB , 1200x1135 , convoy route.png )
63510

Okay, I took the liberty of copy-pasting the route we know Karri's convey followed / will follow (assuming the future has not changed) from the second hand job office to the clusterfuck.

It's possible the gold could reach Piles by way of sector 7 (8, 7, 12, 5) but if the cargo was headed for sector 11 in the first place, why detour up to 5 and drop it off with those idiots? I suppose Whiskers did it on purpose as part of the test? Or Piles is already with the gold and any idiotic decisions can be blamed on him.

The most direct route for the gold to get to Piles would be to pass through sectors 4 or 6.

Regrettably, we no longer no if the timeline has been changed or not, and even if it hasn't, our foreknowledge doesn't tell us where the gold is now.
>>
No. 63513 ID: f2c20c

>>63510
I bet the gold gets stolen a third time. Right now it's in the hands of Zozu defectors, then Whiskers tracks it down and yoinks it to add to the shipment that Piles is moving. Remember, the shipment ALSO had 1.2 million zeny and the Black Supernova radio in it. Those two items are not yet included in the package.
>>
No. 63515 ID: 70c0f2

>>63513
...good call. I'm pretty sure the latest update just proved you right.
>>
No. 63517 ID: e3f578

I take that this is a few days before now, which means Pilon isn't even really a part of our group now, hell, I think Rokoa might actually be tearing apart Iron Cove right about now. This thread probably started about the same time Hok was locked up in the underwater freighter.

It's been, what, a week since this whole quest (not just thread 3, thread one) started?
>>
No. 63535 ID: 70c0f2

Okay, you remember that idea I had about Itcher and friends defecting to the trade hub if we got the chance? Forget that plan. The new plan, once we survive this gold business, is to leave Zozu and find Alia/Whiskers.

I mean, think about it. Those two are perfect for each other. It's not like thief and tax collector are even that different roles- its just implemented slightly differently. They certainly have chemistry, and a similar professional attitude and sense of morality. And just imagine how much more awesome the heists would be if you pair her planning, knowledge and resources with Itcher's paranoia. Fuck, bring Jess a along too. She's his bud, and that CAI would probably appreciate a meatspace hacker to hang out with.

...next time we get back to Tin's group through, I'm definitely going to have the trade-hub CAI start discretely checking people for nanobands during hugs.
>>
No. 63546 ID: f2c20c

>>63535
How do you even check for nanobands? Itcher got strip searched before meeting Maklata and they didn't find it.
>>
No. 63547 ID: 5d98c3
File 135285212399.jpg - (29.16KB , 160x160 , Carmen Sandiego has stolen this thread.jpg )
63547

I have only one question:

Why is Carmen Sandiego an alien?
>>
No. 63548 ID: 70c0f2

>>63546
I have no idea. Build some kind of scanners into the CAI hugging arms? There must be some kind of electrical activity or emissions that we might be able to detect with good enough equipment and enough processing power.

Zozu's men also probably didn't know this kind of tech existed. They weren't looking for it. Now that we do, we can start looking into countermeasures for it. (Maybe scan the epidermis for the bioarmor-like bond points? She might have shielded the devices, but the organic or neurological response to bonding might be harder to cover up).
>>
No. 63550 ID: c4e5c2

>>63547
I didn't realize it until I decided that she could use a snazzy hat to go with that coat, then once I remembered the hat was red as well, I simply went 'fuck'.

I forget what the word/phrase is to describe when someone thinks they're creating something new, when in fact they've seen it already somewhere else and just don't realize or remember it. Whatever that is, it's most likely what happened here, at least until I put that hat on her. Since I noticed it when I did, I could've stopped it and changed Whiskers' outfit if I really wanted to. I didn't really want to, so I let Carmen Sandiego Except An Alien make a door in the tank.
>>
No. 63551 ID: 425b9d

>>63550
hey, she's gotta have style, & it is right there
>>
No. 63564 ID: 70c0f2

>>63562
>If he were into me, though, it wouldn't be too hard to requite his feelings.
Nooo, Jessica, what have you done?! Everything always goes to hell when we have multiple romance options.
>>
No. 63572 ID: cef479

>>63550

Subconsiously? (I probably butchered that word but I think it's the right one)

The important question now is what landmark will she steal next?
>>
No. 63574 ID: c4e5c2

Nah, it was a pretty specialized word that I wish I could remember since it's pretty hard to explain normally. And similarly, is particularly tough to google.
>>
No. 63578 ID: 04b86a

>>63574
Cryptomnesia, maybe? That's what comes up when googling "subconscious plagiarism", anyway.
>>
No. 63580 ID: c4e5c2

>>63578
Yes, that's it exactly, thank you.

I didn't think to google 'subconscious plagiarism'
>>
No. 63583 ID: f2c20c

>>63564
Personally I support chasing Whisker.
>>
No. 63584 ID: d43682

>>63583

Why not Both?

I personally think that Itcher is man enough to handle both of them.

And the kicker is that Whisker, being a fucking loon, would probably see it as adventurous if she could turn Itcher into a thief like her during the process.
>>
No. 63607 ID: 70c0f2

Jebus, is Jess cursed or what? Everything we do seems to bite her in the ass.

First, we get her killed. Then, we blueball and bio-armor a psychopath rapist who decides to come after her. And then the loyalty and trust we earn protecting her just gets her to mutilate herself on our behalf, and then endure hours and hours of torture.
>>
No. 63671 ID: 425b9d

>>63607
she defently needs better protection then us D:
>>
No. 63673 ID: 70c0f2

I was more thinking
>she definitely needs better protection then from us D:

>>63644
Okay, so I've been entertaining the theory that the reason father Zozu has been pulling a Steinbrenner and hasn't let the suggesters see his face is he's going to turn out to be one of the Salikai from the spire complex that somehow escaped/survived the ultra-hive's assault and made his way to the asteroid later.

There's some flimsy support for this. His researchers have developed bio-armor that artificially duplicates Polo's unique flavor of jamming (well, more shutting up than jamming). Access to the spire's research on empathy manipulation (the hallucinogens, love bugs) could have helped make that happen, as would a familiarity with Polo (or even data on her. Maybe one reason they let Polo and co operate with the freedom she did in the forest zone for a while was because they were studying her. If there were sensors hidden in the walls of that cave...). Of course, knowledge of Polo isn't special in of itself; by current day on the asteroid, the assault would have happened 30+ years ago, it's hardly classified knowledge if they're making movies about it, and it makes sense off world Salikai would pay attention to big news about their peers. What is more significant is that he seems to respect her. As unlikely as it is that any of the spire salikai could let go of their hatred and lust for revenge, a personal encounter with Polo could have been transformative- especially if she again decides she won't be part of a genocide.
>>
No. 63689 ID: f2c20c

>>63673
The only Salikai from the Asteroid whose face we've seen is dead.
>>
No. 63691 ID: 70c0f2

>>63689
You mean from the spire, not the asteroid, I believe.

But yeah, that's why it occurred to me. The head Salikai and his or her remaining children have all kept themselves hidden from us too.
>>
No. 63714 ID: f2c20c

>>63691
Fuck. Yes, the spire is what I meant.

Considering the two examples of Salikai we've seen the whole of, I wonder how their species varies in appearance? Do they have different markings, or is it just different shades of green? Both fully-visible Salikai have been diamondbacks, but they were slightly different shades of green.
>>
No. 63715 ID: d43682

>>63714

Probably small variations in color and pattern, but Father Zozu is most likely that color because he is an old bastard by their standards.

Imagine once Three-Stripes got suitably old, I imagine that his colors would darken considerably.
>>
No. 63737 ID: 997ce7

>>63715
Or he's black. Well, the racial analogue, anyway.
>>
No. 63742 ID: cef479

>>63737

Oh geeze. Now you've got me wondering if they ever made Salikaisploitation films.
>>
No. 63768 ID: ec06d0

>>63737
>>63742
Come on now, sociopathic puppet masters who use other races to do all their fighting for them.
Thats not a black stereotype.
>>
No. 63774 ID: beeca1

>>63768
So? I'm basing it on his skin color being darker, not any stereotypes.
>>
No. 63878 ID: beeca1

Well, I wasn't actually planning to do this but I said I would so here I go. Itcher/Jessica slashfic. In spoilers, but if anyone objects to that I can repost it without spoilers. If this is not where this should go, please tell me.

New drinking game: For every OOC moment or mistake in weird alien anatomy I make, take a shot of <favored liquor>. Highest medical bill is the winner.


Whiskers found she was already getting bored with Itcher. She felt a little bad whenever she started thinking about her next adventure in the middle of a conversation with him and caught herself, but she would just have to move on. It was a bit cruel, but Itcher didn't seem like the type to get too attached. He'd accept that it had just been a quick fling and move on. At least, she hoped so. She hoped that neither of them would be too disturbed by the scheme she'd come up with to deal with it, either.

Whiskers walked into What Does This Rag Smell Like to You?, the premier over-the-counter rape-drug store and asked Leering Dan for a bottle of Handwavium, the miracle neurotransmitter/nanobot slurry that did whatever the fuck you wanted it to do or twice your money back! It was prohibitively expensive, but if she pulled this off, the nanoband's video would be more than worth it.

Whiskers dialed Itcher's nanoband on her custom-fitted radio, ingenuously disguised as a rotary phone, and said "Hey, Itcher. You and Jessica want to go drinking with me? The last bar in the little fetch quest I set up for you two. I was... impressed... with how well you did. My wallet will regret this, but drinks on me." in as light a tone as she could manage. Mentally, she added holy fuck that thing with the shiny table was hilarious, I might really have to hire them.

Itcher and Jessica amazingly accepted free booze and showed up bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Whiskers saw another neumono trip over Jessica's tail on his way to try and chat her up and giggled to herself. She insisted on pouring the drinks herself, telling them about this great cocktail she learned from a cockatiel. She managed to keep them from noticing the Handwavium she slipped into their drinks by telling them that, no, it wasn't really a cockatiel, but the Heef she'd gotten the recipe from really did look like a cockatiel, crest and all. He claimed it was his lucky charm for poker, and was proven wrong when Whiskers won the shirt off his back and the recipe besides.

Some time later, when they were well and truly sloshed, she walked off and said, "Well, that's it, then. My sincerest apologies, but you two really do make a cute couple! No, don't worry about what I said, it'll make sense in the morning."


Itcher wasn't sure what had just happened, other than lots of booze, but when Jessica suggested that they call it a night and go to bed, he accepted. When they arrived and they'd gotten in bed, Itcher realized that he really was extremely aroused, and had just enough time to wonder too late about what Whiskers had done to their drinks before the two began their passionate attempts at lovemaking.

Itcher pushed himself into Jessica's soft flesh and only drew back in surprise when he heard Jessica laugh, "Haha, what? Why are you trying to use my ear as a cocksleeve?" The next time, he managed to enter an orifice that clenched as he entered. Shit, had he just tried to fuck her ass? Was Jessica going to try to bite his dick off? But she wasn't complaining, and besides, neumono vaginas did that weird squeezing vacuum thing, right?

Itcher decided to stop thinking about it and start thrusting, and Jessica seemed to enjoy it, so all's well that ends well, right?


The next morning, Jessica woke up and managed to notice three things through the hangover: her ass was sore, Itcher was still improbably erect, and her hand was wrapped around Itcher's dick.

The phrase What the fuck? appeared in Jessica's blurry mind, and she realized that Itcher was now awake and had indeed just said "What the fuck?"

Jessica tried to remember what had happened. Whiskers and Itcher had... broken up? Whiskers had said she was fine with the two of them hooking up, and apparently Itcher had been too, considering their position. Jessica began to grin and realized that she was fine with it too. More than fine, in fact. She felt great. So she decided to kiss Itcher and maybe ask if he was up for round two, and managed to get herself on top of Itcher. The kiss was less successful, because she tried to proposition Itcher at the same time and it came out as "Mm, mmf mmm mfmm?"

Happily, Itcher managed to put "raging erection" and "naked girl on top of me" together, and he actually managed to achieve vaginal on the first try.

AND NOW THE STORY ENDS WHILE THEY'RE STILL DOPED UP ON BOOZE, DRUGS, AND SEX, LONG BEFORE THEY CAN ACTUALLY START THINKING ABOUT THINGS. THIS IS CLEARLY A WONDERFUL BASIS FOR THEIR FUTURE RELATIONSHIP.


So this is the first time I've ever written an actual slashfic. I hope it's not too narmy, and I'd appreciate criticism.
>>
No. 63948 ID: e3f578

We couldn't do anything to save Wendel
Crap
Respect
>>
No. 63959 ID: 70c0f2

>>63948
We tried everything we could to stop the clusterfuck from happening, but it was largely out of our hands. We weren't allowed to make any tactical decisions that could have affected the outcome- and our attempt to defuse the situation before it started failed spectacularly.

Although the actual casualties might be different this time around. The violence started half an hour earlier, so the distribution and exact positions of troops might not have been the same. Exactly who it was who caught bullets outside the bar could have changed.
>>
No. 63963 ID: a00410

>>63959
Yeah we might still have some green force guy left. What was his name 'Wellen, Wendel'? Seem pretty cool. I'd like to see him make it if only for some token human faces around. I like all the other races just fine, I'm even a bit a a fur fan but I'd like to see some human input for contrast. Were out there too and such. So far only a few humans have been seen. And their all from the trade hub.

I am currently theorizing that this asteroid might been off the space lanes the human ship tend to traverse. So most of the humans are remnants and descendants of passengers of the ships of other races (Mostly Pomi and Belenosians) or the same for prisoners of pirates.

That is just speculation based on what I have seen. It also might just be their in the back ground because it is not easy to draw human faces. Snouts are easier for some people. (Hitler couldn't draw human faces).

Sorry Enough Hitler.

Any way this is just a dump of rumination. But what is the deal with humans? Im mostly just curious.
>>
No. 63967 ID: 48de7f

>>63878
Next do Cat Pin/Spade Pin
>>
No. 63968 ID: beeca1

>>63967
I'm not sure how that would work. Maybe the two of them getting melted down and their combined metal making some kind of piercing, but that's slightly creepy, and it gets creepier the more I think about it.

...Eh, I'll just describe the two pins being attached to Jess' jacket in obsessive detail.
>>
No. 63969 ID: c4e5c2
File 135336651058.png - (4.59KB , 300x300 , JessicaReadsAStory.png )
63969

>>63963
I am plenty guilty of finding human faces harder to draw and look acceptable. It doesn't help, but I think the main reason here is that regardless of if I draw human faces fine or not, it's hard for me to get a stylistic representation of humans going that doesn't seem to clash with everyone else. In other words, when humans are around, they always seem to be a stark mismatch with the rest of the rather cartoonized species. There's probably a whole slew of hypotheses for why that is, and maybe it's just me, but that's the ungraceful, meta reason why humans are rarely seen.
>>
No. 63974 ID: beeca1

Aw fuck screwed up the tags on the previous version

Here goes nothing.

Warning: physics geekery, no happy ending

For too long, the lovers had been separated by the vast swathes of brown fabric. They were so close, but their inanimate states and their lack of locomotion even if they were animate made the centimeter further than the bathroom when you've been eating Taco Bell lately and can barely hold it in. Spade Pin really dug Cat Pin, and though Cat Pin tried to act above it all, Spade knew Cat liked Spade, too.

One glorious day, they were ripped off of the jacket when Jessica took it off in the previous slashfic. But that wasn't the glorious part. Oh, no. That came when they were re-inserted the morning after, which I suppose means it wasn't actually one glorious day but two, but who the hell cares in porn, and the by now insanely rigid points of the pins came together.

They were so excited that the motion of their electrons alone was enough to initiate electron capture on a relatively massive scale when millions of stray electrons slammed into one of the nuclei in the other pin. Massive amounts of gamma radiation were emitted by the capture alone, and the massive, unstable isotopes formed quickly decayed, releasing even more radiation, heat, and pressure.

Soon enough, the hellish agony pure love of the two pins was so great that nuclear fusion took place.

On the one hand, the energy needed to fuse transferrous elements was so great that it was effectively a miniature supernova. Everything in a <insert arbitrarily round number here>-mile radius was vaporized and the electrons stripped from that vapor, and the plasma and radiation produced boiled and/or sterilized the rest of the asteroid before dissipating to a relatively harmless level roughly equal to cosmic background radiation some light-years away.

On the other hand, the clusterfuck never happened and Itcher and Jessica never had to worry about their strange new relationship, which made it... not all better, certainly, so I suppose I didn't lie about there being no happy ending.






No, that wasn't the actual ending. At least, not the only version of the actual ending. I'll think of more later.
>>
No. 63976 ID: beeca1

Oh, and I'm glad to see Jessica liked the slashfic.
>>
No. 63991 ID: 35d27b

>>63969
so do I, I can only draw isomec,been trying to draw recently but I fuck up
>>
No. 63992 ID: 35d27b

>>63969
also that pic is adorable~
>>
No. 64016 ID: beeca1

>>63974
I promised an alternative ending, and here it is!

As they finally made contact, tragedy struck. Spade's point plunged nanometers deep into Cat's shaft, piercing Cat's heart and slaying the poor pin instantly.

But Spade did not have long to mourn and wallow in self-loathing, for Spade had a hitherto undiscovered secret: an allergy to cats. Before Spade could wail silently for more than a few seconds, its life, too, was snuffed out as Spade suffered massive anaphylactic shock.


No one noticed this acicular Romeo and Juliet; their passing went unmourned; their brief lives forgotten; this ferrous tragedy unnoticed.


I cried tears of nonexistence as I penned fingered no wait that sounds even worse keyed this.
>>
No. 64039 ID: beeca1

I decided to write a Red/plasma sword slashfic because reasons.

A long, long time from now, in a galaxy far, far away thanks to the Milky Way's motion at 400 kilometers per second towards the constellations Hydra and Centaurus, a plasma sword was trying to embrace its beloved. It was not picky, for it knew its lifespan would be short, so the sword decided that Red would be its beloved, whether he wanted to or not.

Alas, Red recoiled from its attempts to hug him, screaming and burning. Though it tried again and again, it seemed fate and the expansion of rapidly heated atoms in Red's body would never let them be together.

But the sword's hopes did not die unrealized. Soon, Red realized that finally here was something he could hug without thinking of it as some pansy shit, and he eagerly embraced our actinic protagonist. Having found an outlet for his repressed emotions and desires, Red pulled a karma Houdini, turned over a new leaf and lived a happy life where he never again harmed another living creature. The blissful couple died in each other's arms of massive fourth-degree burns and a dying battery, respectively, centuries later.


Hahaha, no, just kidding, Red managed to ignore its phallic shape and tried to hump it. For his pains, he earned a bisection, and sadly (hah) he wasn't as tough as he thought. As the life was snuffed out of each of his crispy halves, all he could think was "Fuck, that headvoice was right, I really would whine if I lost my kibbles and bits."



Believe whichever ending you'd like. I have to admit I doubt Red would manage to reform himself.
>>
No. 64051 ID: 35d27b

>>63992
yes, yes it is, I keep looking at it & keep "dawwww"-ing
>>
No. 64092 ID: 70c0f2

>>/quest/473648
Well guys, I know what I'm thankful for this thanksgiving.

And Jess' expressions during that update were like the best thing ever. First abject terror superimposed with giddy expectation, followed by ecstatic exultation barely restrained by fear and horror.
>>
No. 64231 ID: beeca1

I have an idea. Father Zozu decided to make himself immortal by uploading himself into a computer, and kept his arms for convenience. To lend himself an aura of authority and tradition, he put the computer into a stereotypical Don's chair.


Father Zozu is the chair.
>>
No. 64234 ID: 06ee8f
File 135389801933.jpg - (13.27KB , 400x297 , anime-doctor-claw[1].jpg )
64234

>>64231
father zozu is a pragmatic dr. claw
>>
No. 64256 ID: e3f578

Zozu is Vito Corleone. That likes to keep his face hidden. I'm sure on the day of his daughter Salikai's wedding, he would not be able to deny a request.
>>
No. 64563 ID: 284f99

Yeah!!!! Polo, Woooooooooooo!
>>
No. 64564 ID: 70c0f2

>>64563
Fuck yeah. First day of December, first snow of the season, and Polo's back. This is shaping up to be a pretty awesome day.

Also... lookit this.

>Sapient Species: Asteroidverse
Human
Sheep
Miklik
Pomi
Bird-peeps
Yich Eaters
Artificial Intelligences

>Sapient Species: Neumono Homeworld
Neumono
Salikai
Arkots
Predators
Vernauts
Grottle (maybe? Not sure if they count).
Voklit

This planet is home to half the known sapient species in the asteroidverse! That's crazy. Seriously, what the hell is up with this planet. I'm surprised it isn't crawling with off world researchers trying to figure out what makes it so special, and such a rich source of so many extremely varied life forms.
>>
No. 64565 ID: beeca1

>>64564
Plot, of course.

In-universe, most of those are descended from a single species. I'd say isolated communities of precursor rabbits evolved to compete with each other, hence the sapience.

Arkots may be related as well, although I'm not sure. The only species that definitely isn't a lagomorph are the Voklits.


Also, I seriously doubt we're close to knowing all the sophont species in the Asteroidverse.
>>
No. 64568 ID: 70c0f2

Well... we can probably assume all life on the planet comes from a common ancestor. And we know Neumono, predators, and vernauts have a fairly recent common ancestor. There are fairly obvious shared physical characteristics, and two of them share the empathy. The new Voklit are probably in there too- they're got the familiar neumono proportions, just bigger, and more lizard-like.

This kind of fits the earth model- a bunch of variant sapient species on the same model (only on earth, all but one species of human went extinct. Yay, homo-sapiens?).

The rest though are drastically different enough that I'm not convinced it's the result of one sapient (or proto-sapient) species diverging. They don't share even the same basic template. I mean, I it's possible, but it would seem more likely to me that the Salikai and Grottle evolved from an independent insect ancestor rather than diverging from the same mammal base the others came from.

No idea about the arkots. They could be an another independent evolution of intelligence, or another offshoot of the proto-neumono family tree.

...dangit, if this conversation is going to make sense, we're going to have to start coming up with names for the hypothetical ancestor species and the family groupings. Neumonids? :V

And yeah, wouldn't be surprised if their are more species lurking out there in the dark, but we can only work with what we know, for now.
>>
No. 64573 ID: beeca1

>>64568
I suggest "lagomorphs". And salikai have been explicitly stated to be related to neumono in the Intermission. Predators used their empathy for control, neumono for hives, and salikai turned it inward to make themselves more calculating.

I'm not sure, but I got the impression that grottles were offworld, although I could easily be wrong.

And I heavily doubt that Voklits are (closely) related. Mammals don't become reptiles without distancing themselves a fair bit. That's based on a sample size of one (Earth) and my own imperfect understanding, so I can't be certain. It's sufficiently general that it should hold true, though.
>>
No. 64574 ID: 70c0f2

>And I heavily doubt that Voklits are (closely) related
They sure look related to me. They've got an nearly identical build. Same proportions. Same number of toes and fingers, same oversized hands and feet, digitigrade legs, an oversized tail, similar head shape.

Shave a neumono and replace the fuzz with hide, cut the ears off, and jack it up on steroids and hormones, and poof! Doesn't seem much of a stretch.

They don't have to be true lizards, either. They could just appear lizard-like. Note the example image still seems to have a mane of hair.

...and really, if you believe something could go from mammilian to snake-bug, mammalian to lizardish isn't such a stretch. Speaking of, I don't suppose you know where it says Salikai and Neumono are related? Because I don't remember that at all.
>>
No. 64575 ID: ec06d0

>They've got an nearly identical build
Convergent evolution
>>
No. 64576 ID: 70c0f2

>>64575
Well, yes, possibly. But we've got 3 confirmed cases of divergent evolution (Neumono, predator, vernauts). It just seems to me that when a 4th similar looking sapient species is discovered, it's not unreasonable to assume it's another offshoot. Odds seem in favor of it.

...although given the amount of crazy biology we've seen on this planet, maybe I shouldn't be betting on likely solutions. :V
>>
No. 64637 ID: 4735b1

considering >>60478
would you actually mind a silence, like being in a jammer field, for the rest of your life? like how other races deal with, along with other races, neumono have their outright toughness, what about other of the miklik other then their randomness of mutations, & I forget their name, the "sheep" they seem kinda the weakest, if humanity found them first surely we would of stomped over them when we found them, again with the lizard folk, from what I guess they got an imbetween from neumono & human for toughness, but thats it
>>
No. 64703 ID: 4735b1

I'm sorry for my drunk typing, idiot I am, but I am curious about this, seems neumono have everything for them bar speed in reaction, what do all other races have? surely they must have bonuses or else earth would of stompted them out
>>
No. 64705 ID: 2f4b71

>>64703
Also lacking: Fine manipulation (so not much of a technology base), inability to mechanically augment themselves (so no direct neural interfaces, artificial limbs or bodies, etc).
>>
No. 64706 ID: ec6d4c

>>64703
...why do you assume earth would stomp out other races just for not being special or different enough? :V

The other races do have other things going for them. For one thing, neumono were basically uplifted from a pretty basic technological level a century ago- and they still don't have a very good manufacturing base. The homeworld seems pretty dependent on imports.

Remember too that being a neumono comes with some disadvantages, too. They require more food more frequently than the other species, and they're carnivores too boot (feeding your populace with meat is a lot less energy efficient). There seem to be downsides to the link as well (even if father Zozu is biased, he does seem to be right that that hive close mindedness leads to conflict and the neumono causing a lot of their own problems. Then there's the whole rogue problem).
>>
No. 64711 ID: ec06d0

>>64706
>feeding your populace with meat is a lot less energy efficient
Everything about civilization is energy inefficient. The reason you're playing around on a computer right now is because we can afford to be energy inefficient.
>>
No. 64714 ID: ec6d4c

>>64711
That's a highly subjective assessment. Efficiency is at it's most fundamental an assessment of cost per benefit. To say "civilization is inefficient" you need to be able to tangibly measure the benefits of civilization relative to the costs, and compare to the alternative. Which is difficult, to say the least. (I mean, obviously, we place some value on playing around on a computer, or else we wouldn't do it! But an objective evaluation...)

Getting a little less philosophical, that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm not talking about the costs of civilization- I'm comparing the costs of one kind of civilization compared to another.

The point I was trying to make that only about 10% of the energy makes it up each successive step in the food chain. So it takes more total energy to sustain a population of predominantly carnivores. Combine that with the quantity they eat, and you find that compared to the other known races, neumono have to devote a lot more effort and infrastructure to food production and/or procurement. That's a disadvantage.

The energy costs of running computers aren't as significant a point of comparison though- since all the space capable races are doing it.
>>
No. 64720 ID: 2f684c

>>64714
The most efficient process is when everything is dead and nothing happens as there can't be any energy lost in the process of staying like that^^
>>
No. 64721 ID: beeca1

>>64720
Nice try, but still no. Efficiency is maximizing work done and minimizing energy used. "Nothing happens" isn't efficient.
>>
No. 64724 ID: ec6d4c

Perfect equilibrium, nothing for nothing, can't have an efficiency. That's 0/0, a discontinuity. :V

>Polo trapped underground with little supplies and no known way out
>We decide to argue about math. :V
PRIORITIES. XD
>>
No. 64730 ID: 2f684c

>>64724
Well, that's because the situation doesn't seem very upsetting for her and we also kind of suspect feeling bad about any enemy that she encounters later... Her reaction was also more like a "Not again...", right?
>>
No. 64732 ID: e3f578

All this preparation with people and equipment for a hostile situation became quickly futile within the first few days and we're all alone again.

Lord knows that next time we'll have an insane budget to avoid this situation again and an entire goddamn army and we'd still end up practically alone and under-equipped.
>>
No. 64734 ID: ec6d4c

>>64732
Well, yeah. We're Polo. What did you expect?
>>
No. 64735 ID: 51a2e0

Polo is the Nuemono version of Samus. I am surprised no one has noticed.
>>
No. 64736 ID: beeca1

>>64735
Obv

And I think Katzati is an Acrofat. There's probably muscle under that fat. Kind of like Rokoa and her enormous ass/thighs. That, and she seems like she'd naturally be stocky anyway.

Also, she looks kind of like a squirrel.
>>
No. 64738 ID: ec6d4c

>>64735
...aren't most Metroid games kind of the opposite of a pacifist run, though?
>>
No. 64788 ID: ec6d4c
File 135487485754.png - (17.99KB , 902x581 , Asteroidverse Timeline 01.png )
64788

Okay, so, here's some proof I officially have too much time on my hands.

Notable omissions: Polo, Agnes, Jess, Itcher. (And loads of other characters we know the names but not the ages of. And all the faceless trade hub staff we do have data on but don't care about). And anything pertaining to Alison, of course, since we still don't know where or when their virtual world is running.

Source file is in excel, actually, so it's relatively easy to throw in new things, or adjust the scale if we really wanna cram every person we've ever met in there.
>>
No. 64955 ID: ec6d4c
File 135523903141.png - (18.10KB , 899x592 , Asteroidverse Timeline 02.png )
64955

Updated: now a natural source of your recommended daily dose of Polo. Also tweaked colors to be slightly more readable.

I noticed Wendel is 5 during the intermission. So... if a Polo cartoon did come out within a few years of those events, he's potentially at the right age to have grown up watching it. :V

Assuming distribution to wherever Wendel was born and/or grew up didn't take too long.
>>
No. 65025 ID: 00c52e

Did anyone go back to look at the old photo album from the second thread of Unnatural Selection?
>>
No. 65030 ID: ec6d4c

>>65025
Do you mean in-universe, or outside? In universe, I'm not sure, although one might guess that Historian has an interest in that sort of thing.

Outside, sure. I haven't seen any useful information there, though. We can guess that the sepia all-neumono pictures predate first contact (although they didn't have much in thee way of tech, at least one hive had film figured out. How else could there be a pre-contact film about aliens arriving?), and the multi-species color photos come after. The names don't tell us anything, though, and the date doesn't help either (since there's more than one year-numbering format, and they aren't labelled. So we don't know when those pictures were taken relative to the timeline we're familiar with, or relative to the historical simulations the CAI battle presents).
>>
No. 65375 ID: 8af889

>>65030
well it's been noted there were science based hives, also if I remember correctly, isn't rokoa older then pilon?
>>
No. 65377 ID: 8af889

>>65375
edit: oh I read moreof inside the quest, yeah rokoa might be younger, I was more following on she is quite old even for a neumono....

also Hok or Wendel n' others, what is the quick rough timeline of species meeting other species? seems humans first dropped & advanced the neumono, but what about all the others like the belenosians & Yich?
>>
No. 65378 ID: 997ce7

Rokoa is 160 to 170. Pilon is 219. Do the math.
>>
No. 65380 ID: ec6d4c
File 135620056996.png - (18.00KB , 899x592 , Asteroidverse Timeline 03.png )
65380

>questions about relative ages of characters
Dude there's a timeline right there and... it's got a few Polo level subtraction errors in it. >_< Dangit. This is what I get for putting it together at four in the morning.

Anyways, fixed now. In answer to your specific question, Pilon is 44 to 54 years older than Rokoa (we don't know for sure, since when asked, she gave a range for her age).

As for interspecies contacts: we know humans and sheep we in contact before the neumono were discovered, since bioarmor was first invented in a collaborative science project between the two. Everyone else, we don't know the contact order, although it seems likely the neumono were one of the last ones to join the interplanetary community (seeing as they had perhaps the worst tech disadvantage).
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No. 65386 ID: c4e5c2
File 135621025443.png - (10.33KB , 700x700 , pilonexplainstiiiime.png )
65386

>What do all other races have?
Belenosians are known for two things. Great intelligence, and even greater irresponsibility. There's sayings that behind every apocalyptic scenario, there's always a belenosian behind it, mostly ever since the whole robotic uprising that led to the mass CAI bans.

Mikliks are fragile, but they have great reaction times, and often have special abilities granted by mutations. They're a case by case situation, and while many mikliks aren't that great, there are many ones that have scored a genetic jackpot that have pulled off missions thought to be impossible.

Pomi have great instincts, knowing when they're being watched or similar knowledge without realizing how they know it. Unfortunately, a lot of those instincts seemed to be dependant on a wild upbringing, and childhoods spent on a computer, for instance, will stunt the growth of those instincts despite supposedly being born with them.

Heef, I think, are the most physically fit. Not the most durable at all, but as far as speed and strength go, they're high up, although they do have grasping issues similar to neumono. They're thought to be descendants of old birds at the top of the food chain, but those birds that were capable of flight have gone extinct long since the time that heef were discovered.

Yich eaters... they're yich eaters, I don't know what to say about them.

>What is the quick rough timeline of species meeting other species?
Once the warp drive was invented by humans, the timeline was reset to Space Age year 0. From there on, it didn't take long for the whole universe to start getting seen by humans quickly and efficiently. Belenosians were discovered in year 18, and led to a surge of improved technology between the good match of belenosian intellect and human's management and ambition. Even though belenosian did not go into space much, they did employ a lot of technology that lended itself well to terraforming planets. By year 30, there were a large number of ships going into the unknown to terraform whatever planet looked terraformable. Simultaneously, because of the wide range of expanding planets and possible population density, the population was booming exponentially. From year 18 to 40, the total population between humans and belenosians doubled, and would double again from year 40 to 56, all of which lead to planets getting inhabited and terraformed by the bucketload. This near uncontrolled growth made a whole lot of management issues, which is blamed to just how many outskirt portions of the galaxy are riddled with crime and corruption. It also led to a lot of concern about what'll happen when we run out of planets, but we've barely terraformed a drop in the bucket. Even with exponential growth, we won't run out anytime soon, and most people just think it'll turn into life before space travel.

Year 33 led to the discovery of the Yich Eater because of this, as while the planet was known, it was not explored due to looking just plain lifeless. On attempting to terraform it, underneath a steady haze, they discovered a lot of life. In Year 40 and 43, Mikliks and Heef were discovered respectively on the farther outskirts of the galaxy. In year 55. Pomi were discovered.

And finally, year 65, us neumono were discovered. Considering how long it takes to explore the galaxy, it was especially lucky for us considering that we were already on the farthest edges of the galaxy where exploration was lightest.

It feels pretty weird that I was grown up before all this even began happening.
>>
No. 65390 ID: e3f578

>>65386
So humans are one of the most powerful empires if not THE most powerful space empire. Followed by Belosians, probably.
What discovered race outside humans like humans the most and which hate them the most?
Have scientists calculated the probability of meeting another warp-drive using race? One like humans going around and teraforming the shit out of the universe and ellevating other races with technology?
How likely is there for a big fat space war to happen?
>>
No. 65396 ID: b33427

>>65386
Are there minor intelligent species and civilizations out there as well? Ones that aren't as numerous as the major ones, didn't spread out as much when first contact was made for whatever reason, or died or were killed back after contact was made?

Is the neumono homeworld of Astreneus V the first world discovered with multiple intelligent species on it? And if it isn't, is it the one with the most so far found?

Did any civilization attempt interstellar colonization the "hard way," using sub-light speed generational or cryo ships?
>>
No. 65397 ID: ec6d4c
File 135621857746.png - (20.61KB , 900x600 , Asteroidverse Timeline 04.png )
65397

Pilon, I love you dearly, but you made me have to redo my timeline. Again. :V

At least I think I figured out how to get it to output a consistent size now. All this really needs to be complete now is for us to figure out when Unnatural Selection is happening, and to wait for Jess and Itcher to show up in the next trade hub personnel roster.

>>65390
That assumes there are large species centric space empires. From what we've seen, power seems to be split among much smaller factions, and there's a fair amount of racial diversity inside these organizations.
>>
No. 65406 ID: c4e5c2
File 135622342236.png - (10.25KB , 700x700 , pilonexplainsotherthings.png )
65406

>Have scientists calculated the probability of meeting another warp-drive using race?
It's impossible to get a perfect number probability of such a thing, but the concensus is "low". Since the warp drive has been invented, it hasn't even been a couple of centuries before almost an entire galaxy has been well mapped with, if not civilian ships, a massive number of exploratory drones. And while it takes a long time to visit other galaxies, it's expected that the whole universe will be within grasp before too long. An exceedingly short time considering the length of the universe on a whole. If a big fat space war happens, it will most likely be because of a schism.

>So humans are one of the most powerful empires if not THE most powerful space empire. Followed by Belosians, probably.
There aren't many minor factions, actually, the galactic empire has held itself together pretty well. There are many small subfactions underneath it that have some autonomy, and of course criminal factions such as the black supernova. Perhaps some old, core worlds may not be kind to aliens due to not being used to them, but as factions, most are multiracial, "X Race Superiority Group" factions not withstanding.

>Did any civilization attempt interstellar colonization the "hard way," using sub-light speed generational or cryo ships?
Humans only had one major project that did such a thing. It used a supercomputer to traject the path to a suspected habitable planet, and was to take 78 years in cryo. They were to either inhabit the land and eventually send a smaller ship back to report success, or to go back in cryo and report it was not habitable after all. This was when it seemed like warp drive was a far away pipe dream.

19 years after they departed, a series of breakthroughs were made, and the first successful warp drive was made. By then, for reasons unknown, the supercomputer changed the path, and the group was not seen. It did eventually, however get to its destination in a bit over 78 years. They all woke up to find that the planet they were to inhabit was already inhabited by over 50 million humans and belenosians who beat them to it. It's been declared the galaxy's biggest practical joke.

>What discovered race outside humans like humans the most and which hate them the most?
Belenosians have gotten along best with humans, though them being such a big help to each other is no small part. As for who hates them the most... well, if you count neumono tribals that hate how the world changed, then perhaps us. Heef were also treated with the most dubious ethics, so they may have the most reason to.

>Are there minor intelligent species and civilizations out there as well? Ones that aren't as numerous as the major ones, didn't spread out as much when first contact was made for whatever reason, or died or were killed back after contact was made?
Yes, but for some reason or another, they either did not join or were not allowed into the galactic race collection. The salikai proved too malicious, and the voklits too embedded in their traditions.

>Is the neumono homeworld of Astreneus V the first world discovered with multiple intelligent species on it? And if it isn't, is it the one with the most so far found?
It is not the first with multiple sapient species, but it is the one with the most.

>>65397
Sorry!
>>
No. 65410 ID: f2c20c

>>65406
There's like, a trillion galaxies in the universe by current estimates, and they're all spread out quite a lot. Assuming an even distribution and that the universe is shaped like a sphere, the universe is about 12000 galaxies in diameter. Also assuming "many months" is 8 months travel time between galaxies on average, and perfect routing for exploration, it would take anywhere from 4000 to 8000 years to reach the edges of the universe, depending on how close to the center you start at. Fully exploring the universe would take a few centuries past that point, assuming you consistently have enough people to explore each galaxy at that rate.

Also considering there were what, MORE than eight sentient species in your galaxy, your universe must be absolutely teeming with life. TRILLIONS of alien races out there to be met. Even if your galaxy is a huge outlier, there are likely billions out there.

If it takes that long to fully explore the galaxy, and how many aliens appear to be out there, I would bet on meeting at least ONE warp drive capable race out there. That 4000-8000 year gap is enough time for someone to discover warp drive just like humans did. I mean, how close were Belenosians to discovering it?

Hey, what's this about Heef being treated with dubious ethics?
>>
No. 65411 ID: ec6d4c

>>65410
I believe there's an assumption that drive tech is going to continue improving. Meaning it takes less and less time to explore father locations. And also, as colonization takes off, the number of exploratory craft that can be launched in parallel goes up geometrically.

And in the context of worrying about a space war, the number of races out there isn't significant. It's the number of living races with FTL tech, at this exact point in history.

>Sorry!
No worries, fuzzmiester. It was a mock complaint. If I didn't enjoy this kind of thing, I wouldn't do it.
>>
No. 65416 ID: ec6d4c

Now that we we actually know what year it is (135 A.W. for Polo, 185 A.W. on the asteroid), we'll have to ask Historian at what date After Warp our available information on the outside world cuts off (looking at history books, publishing dates, etc). If we assume those were up to date when the simulation started, and add the time we've been inside (3119 cycles * 3 days/cycle = 25.6 years) we can estimate the year.

Although, if either of the two dating schemes used in the photobooks from chapter 1 are A.W., that places us more than a century after Asteroid Quest. So of the existing characters, only Pilon's kids, Kappi, and maybe Jess would be likely to still be alive. :/
>>
No. 65422 ID: c6ec33

>>65410
You're assuming that a fictional warp drive has a linear function for travel distance vs. time. :)

It's entirely possible the the equation for time traveled vs. distance traveled is far more complex. It could be logarithmic, it could be exponential, it could even vary depending on the presence of gravity / dark matter / wormholes / etc. It might take 1 month to reach a location 1000 light-years away and only 18 days to reach a location 1100 light-years away; you never know!

I think it's far easier for us to accept fictional technologies if we don't try to constrain them to assumptions based on our own preconceptions. :)
>>
No. 65433 ID: 997ce7

>>65422
It's far easier for us to accept "scientific" ideas when they aren't sprinkled with smiley faces.

He's assuming that the technology isn't magic and extrapolating from what data we have. It's admittedly scanty, but better than saying "Well it's no use guessing, the tech might be so advanced as to be magical." And so far, the tech hasn't been so far ahead of ours as to be magical. There is no cogent reason to assume the warp drive is.

Traveling across a galaxy took roughly 65 years, and traveling to the furthest part took longer than the closer parts. Our galaxy is roughly 50,000 light years across. The observable universe is 14 billion parsecs, or 45.66 billion light years. Searching a sphere with a radius some 913200 times greater than our galaxy's, and therefore a volume billions upon billions of times greater than the Milky Way's, will take longer.

A few thousand years is extremely generous, even with hypothetical advances in the drive, and even if you only search galaxies and not all the empty space. Given that things like hypervelocity stars exist, and that the 'verse is not too concerned with plausibility, because that wouldn't be as cool of a story, there could easily be a civilization outside of any galaxy.
>>
No. 65439 ID: ec6d4c

>>65433
A thorough search of the galaxy took 65 years to reach the other side. Getting to another galaxy and partially exploring it took less than that.

And we're not concerned with a thorough search, if we're looking for another interplanetary species. They're a bit easier to bump into that planet bound ones. Especially if we use automated probes, and send them out in geometrically increasing numbers as galactic (and eventually pan-galatic) civilization spreads. Or set them to replicate as they go (provided we take precautions to avoid a slylandro situation). And especially if whatever physics the FTL drives use is observable or detectable at range, or sends out some kind of signal that moves faster than light. You don't need to search everywhere- you just need to cruise by enough places without getting a ping.

And I don't see why we should assume their universe is the same size, shape or volume as our own. Pilon's not a scientist, either. The asteroidverse's geeks have done the math and said it's unlikely they're going to bump into another independent space-borne faction. He's just reporting their consensus findings, based on a lot of data we don't have (making refuting them difficult, to say the least).
>>
No. 65441 ID: f2c20c

>>65439
Well, if their universe is much smaller than ours, it will take much less time for them to traverse it, which means there's a much smaller window of opportunity for distant races to develop warp drive while they're in transit.

For instance, if there's only like a billion galaxies in their universe, it'll take 10x less time- 400-800 years, then a few additional centuries to thoroughly search all the galaxies on the edge. In fact, for every 1000x less galaxies they have, it takes 10x less time to traverse the universe.
>>
No. 65442 ID: 8d5f3a

>>65380
she said she was around in quest or whatever, 300, she's old for neumonostandards, pilon himself who could be like rokoa, just wants to retire & relax as he died (and who can blame him? he's gone through a lot)
>>
No. 65443 ID: 8d5f3a

we need more Pilon questions..... like why (wou were missing most of your body so dun worry) you felt close to polo?
>>
No. 65444 ID: 8d5f3a

oh oh oh! I read & still confuses me, but unattural selection chars since you pop up here..... hacker should cuddle up with whatshername & sleep in each others arms & warmth
>>
No. 65450 ID: ec06d0

>>65410
You don't seem to be following your own logic, life in the universe is billions of years old, life on earth is hundreds of millions of years old. If in all these years only one civilization ever made FTL then why would another develop it in the next ten thousand years?
>>
No. 65459 ID: ec6d4c

>>65442
All information in that timeline is based on information either explicitly said in the quests (like Korli's age), the asteroid question chapter 2 personnel flashes, diss or ITQ thread spoilers, or from what Lago's put in the wiki (like bioarmor invention). Barring retcons, time travel, or characters lying to us, it should all be accurate.

Since you don't seem content to take us at our word though, Rokoa's age is given here:
>>/questdis/64783
And Pilon's here:
>>/questarch/466228
>>
No. 65767 ID: c4e5c2
File 135717502974.png - (153.13KB , 1147x700 , flufflevels.png )
65767

A quick requested chart of a neumono with minimum fluff to high levels of fluff.
>>
No. 65778 ID: d6ae01
File 135724573267.png - (150.21KB , 600x750 , fluffmono.png )
65778

Not fluffy enough.
>>
No. 65779 ID: 15b5e6

>>65778
...I was so disappointed that wasn't the result of Polo's Pilon-fuzz transfusion.
>>
No. 65782 ID: 450660

>>65778

I knew it would be you, slinkoboy <3
>>
No. 65784 ID: c4e5c2
File 135725514830.png - (305.80KB , 1641x667 , flufflevels2.png )
65784

This just in, slinko does fluff better than me, so he is now part of the new upgraded legal official canon fluff chart.
>>
No. 65785 ID: 450660

>>65784

I am okay with this.
>>
No. 65790 ID: 5bf190
File 135728786944.png - (518.99KB , 1641x1296 , flufflevels3.png )
65790

AND THIS IS TO GO

EVEN FURTHER

BEYOND!!!!!
>>
No. 65792 ID: 7cc179

>>65790
I feel like the ears should be sticking straight up.
>>
No. 65793 ID: f2c20c

>>65790
Ahahaha oh god
>>
No. 65799 ID: 57a559

you know what nevermind I looked again
Super Fluffy 3 is practically a Wheten Terrier
>>
No. 65807 ID: 5bf190

You know, if you could use some sort of hormone-regulating meditation technique (or just drugs) to stimulate the neumono equivalent of adrenaline or whatever it is that shuts off the body self-limitation, and combine it with something to kick their regenerative abilities into overdrive, so that their muscles tearing themselves apart isn't such a problem... perhaps you could approximate some crazy neumono battle transformation. It could even be a reasonable side-effect that it makes their hair grow longer.

Generic stimpack technology isn't too hard to reach in sci-fi, after all. Something tailored to the neumono's unique qualities could work even better.
>>
No. 65810 ID: c59939
File 135734411965.png - (116.08KB , 706x740 , Fluffmono.png )
65810

NOT FLUFFY ENOUGH
>>
No. 65813 ID: 2f4b71

>>65810
Ah, the rare and majestic Wizard Neumono.
>>
No. 65814 ID: 63e9fe

>>65810

We are reaching critical fluff mass here. Any more and an adorable black hole will form.
>>
No. 65816 ID: 6b5895
File 135735344934.jpg - (77.50KB , 800x800 , angora neumono.jpg )
65816

none fluffier
>>
No. 65817 ID: 997ce7

>>65816
Now that neumono just looks like the Michelin man.
>>
No. 65818 ID: ef9aaf

I'm suddenly reminded of the classic "Winger Scale of Boobosity"...and I suspect that, like the subject there, our ever-more-fluffy neumono is going to end up fallen over, unable to move due to the sheer weight of her fluff.
>>
No. 65827 ID: 34cbef
File 135742040930.png - (33.21KB , 939x687 , beyondfluffy.png )
65827

this fluffy neumono thing is funny, but i have to say if there was one that suffered from chronic fluff disease it would probably look like this.
>>
No. 65829 ID: be7fd9

We're getting to the point where these 'mono don't even need bioarmor. The fluff alone would stop bullets!
>>
No. 65831 ID: 08a4cc

>>65790
oh god I can't stop laughing, I picked a good year to severely cut my drinking
>>
No. 65975 ID: f112e3
File 135788340249.png - (180.89KB , 498x375 , ultimate neumono copy.png )
65975

It is ended.
>>
No. 65976 ID: be7fd9

>>65975
...um. That one kind of drops into the uncanny valley, for me. 0_0
>>
No. 66003 ID: cf49fc

>>65975
It's like Kyubey, Satan, and the Killer Rabbit had a sick, twisted lovechild.
>>
No. 66129 ID: 72fb8f

odd question, I know.....
but what do all species think of human sweets? (or in american, candy)
>>
No. 66132 ID: be7fd9

How to Lagoquest:

Be paranoid about absolutely everything. Don't worry- your every deranged, impossible fantastic fear will turn out to be right. The only way you can possibly screw up is assuming, even for a moment, that Murphy isn't out to get you.
>>
No. 66133 ID: daf04a

>>66132

It's only paranoia if something ISN'T out to get you silly.

With Lago's Quests? It's not paranoia, it's just being intensely justified of rampant meticulousness.
>>
No. 66139 ID: 8b9215

>>66132
True. Still we rarely predict the magnitude of the clusterfucks that happen. So still plenty of surprise superohshit moments when we were expecting ohshit moments.
>>
No. 66149 ID: 2f4b71

Set Paranoia to 11:
The Fleet Admiral that dispatched you was compromised. There are no Salikai in the Voklit reservation, just a few of their tech remnants and some Voklit guards. Four stripes and the master transmitter for the Bugs is some distance away. The Salikai are elsewhere, and are staging the entire operation as a distraction to allow them to escape the planet (or dig in elsewhere on it).
>>
No. 66150 ID: be7fd9

>>66149
I wouldn't dial it up that high. If the orbital command station was compromised, they would have just "accidentally" gotten Polo killed when she jumped off the station. It would have been easy to do- just tamper with her equipment, or the landing coordinates, or send the wrong data to her helmet mid jump. Then cover it up, and blame the accident on pilot error.

Of course, we have no way of knowing how far the bugs have spread, or where. We cannot rely on outside reinforcements or aid of an kind. At least until we've destroyed the control station for those bugs, and killed four stripes, who seems to be integrated into their function now.
>>
No. 66157 ID: 2f4b71

>>66150
>If the orbital command station was compromised, they would have just "accidentally" gotten Polo killed when she jumped off the station.
If the whole command chain was compromised, yes. If the Salikai only have partial control, then what better distraction than to have the Ultrahive's purpose-trained Salikai hunter 'find' the last Salikai stronghold?
>>
No. 66164 ID: be7fd9

>>66157
Who are they distracting? Polo would have been better dead than distracted, and the first response reinforcements (the hunters) were completely compromised, already. And the outside world isn't distracted, because they haven't received positive ID and are still searching elsewhere.

It just doesn't make sense to waste this many resources convincing one person the wild goose chase they're on is authentic! Besides, if they wanted to keep Polo distracted with a fake site, they didn't need all this. Just plant a few tantalizing clues (like the railroad), prod the voklit to act suspicious, and watch as we spend weeks and weeks scouring an empty cave system to be sure, and trying to solve the mystery.

They're taking big risks, here. They're showing their hand- revealing they can compromise an entire hive. That's their long game- that's how they win. If that gets out before they're ready, the world will take countermeasures, and it'll never work again. The salikai would not play that kind of card unless it was worth the risk.

We've found their base, and they need us dead or mind controlled, and to report in a false alarm. Then they're free to continue compromising more hives in secret until they're taken over, or they're ready to just go to war and wipe out the reaming free neumono with their hijacked slaves. They'll take the planet.

Hell, they'll even get away with it. Sure, some parts of the interplanetary community will be outraged and want to do something about it. But there are gonna be plenty of groups and people who would be more than happy to have a source of readily exploitable slave labor. Remember- a lot of hives made it into space in the first place because people thought they were convenient exploitable labor (they didn't always exactly live up to expectations). And their will be those who say it's none of their business- they're aliens, this was a conflict between native species. The salikai have as much right to run the planet as the neumono, and who cares, it doesn't affect us.

Best case there will be a space war over their conquest. Worst case, it'll be tolerated.
>>
No. 66165 ID: 2f4b71

>>66164
>It just doesn't make sense to waste this many resources convincing one person the wild goose chase they're on is authentic!
It does if that one person has the authority to bring down the planet's entire available strike force onto the opposite side of the world from where the Salikai actually are. The Ultrahive seem to be in de-facto command of the Neumono homeworld's military (they hold the highest ground possible; the orbitals), and the Ultrahive have been training Polo as Salikai Finder General. If Polo is convinced the Salikai are there, and has at least some proof (Voklits with tech, some compromised Neumono) that's pretty much the best possible way to get everyone looking in the wrong direction.
>>
No. 66167 ID: be7fd9

But there's not trying to get Polo to bring everyone down on the wrong location. They've been trying to kill her, and stopped all attempts to get the word out.

This theory might have made sense, up till the salkai brought in the compromised hunter-hive. That tech could literally allow them to take over the world without a fight- it makes no sense for them to sacrifice it as a decoy to draw the enemy somewhere.

Besides, if this were a decoy, and we somehow did get real and significant reinforcements here, it would be the work of hours to days to subdue the enemy forces here and discover the caves where empty. If Polo had just kept searching the caves as she had before, it could have tied her up for weeks.
>>
No. 66169 ID: f2c20c

>>66167
Shit hit the fan once we found the railway. I expect that it would not take long to follow that to the salikai base.
>>
No. 66171 ID: f2c20c

I may as well comment on what I think the salikai plans to do now.

I believe the original plan for dealing with the hunter hive was to infest all of them, hope Polo doesn't figure it out, and then kill her by overwhelming force once she's walked into the trap. Polo is the only one they actually need to kill. Everyone else they can brainwash into reporting back that there's nothing there and it was a false alarm.

However, now that Polo knows about the bugs and has gotten away into the caves, the salikai probably plans to have the hunter hive pile into the caves to find Polo, as well as posting a bunch of Voklits at the base to keep her out.

We're going to have our work cut out getting in there.
>>
No. 66175 ID: be7fd9

>>66171
Sounds about right. Hunker down, and have the hunters scour the caves for us.

We can't even let them narrow down the area we're in- or they'll flood that portion of the caves with gas.

Although I wouldn't think the Salikai have Polo on the kill only list. I expect they'd be more than happy to test their mind rape tech on her if given the chance, and see how well it works. Try to figure out why or how she resists it, if she can (that's valuable info!). Or cut her up and try and see how her silence functions.
>>
No. 66179 ID: b33427

>>66175
Considering this, it's looking like staying in the caves, hiding, finding the salikai's base, and jumping enemy troops for their equipment, all in preparation for a push on Four Stripes, isn't going to be a viable plan. The odds Polo's group will be found by all those Hunters before she's ready is high, and the salikai probably have either gas or some other nasty weapon to field against her. So it looks like the only way for Polo and company to get out of this alive is to get out of the caves and the valley.

If Polo's group goes up the way Katzati took, while under cover of darkness and in the rain so any passing helicopters will have a hard time spotting them. They all travel much farther away from the valley then Katzati went, so the CAI can't intercept when they radio out. But who to radio? We don't know if the Hunters were compromised before they even came here, and if they were how high it goes. So Polo should contact the one group she's most certain is not infected: Her own hive. They can act on the outside on the down low, getting non-neumono to check neumono for infection before contacting them to bring them in on what's happening.

Meanwhile Polo and company will keep moving away from the voklit valley. Hopefully the salikai won't even realize that her group has left the area, and will keep searching the caves for them, wasting their time.
>>
No. 66182 ID: be7fd9

>>66179
Eh, I doubt it will work. Two problems:

1) Katz's exit isn't viable anymore. The CAI obviously intercepted that transmission, so the enemy knows about that exit now. So it'll be watched. In fact, all the known exits will probably have a 24 hour guard, or at least camera surveillance, now. Containing us, and either killing or brainwashing our entire group to maintain cover, is the enemy's goal.

2) There's no one we can trust to call. We have no idea who is compromised, or even if any call we make is authentic or faked (like the one that fooled Itcher- CAIs can do that). The CAI has access to all our military channels, encoding and security measures through the compromised hunter hive. And the salikai have who knows how many spies out there planting bugs- anyone could be compromised (yes, even members of Polo's own hive), and there's literally no way to know if we're even talking to a real person or the CAI.

We are utterly, completely on our own here. Yes, the tactical situation in these caves sucks, and I have no idea how we're supposed to take out four stripes or the salikai, but any attempt to get out or contact anyone else exposes us to even more risk.

At least in the caves we have Viln's lifetime of experience, our own maps, food, and places to hide, and cover from aircraft and scanners. That's something to work with. Outside we're more vulnerable, and trying to contact anyone is just begging to be sent into another trap.
>>
No. 66183 ID: b33427

>>66181
Yeah, those are valid points. Even though Katz probably didn't radio back how she got outside the radio jamming field, it won't take much thinking on the salkikai's or CAI's part to figure she climbed up the cliff face or found a tunnel up there. There's going to be enemy forces watching any hole in the cliff big enough for her to fit through, plus probably some forces on top of the cliff.

On the second point, I'd say we don't just call one group; We call ALL the groups. Everyone that Polo's group knows how to contact. Mass broadcast if possible. That'll get the knowledge of the infection out one way or another. We just have to get Polo and company away from the salikai's CAI, out of radio jamming field, and up to the surface.

The caves under the voklit reserve almost certainly connect to tunnels that lead away from the reserve, since this whole world seems to be riddled with caves. Polo's group can get out that way, then surface far away from the salikai's base. There's also the rail tunnel. That can be followed away from the salikai's base. Then as a last resort, the underground river will lead away from here for sure.

...Though, I just had a dark thought. We've been thinking that the salikai are limited in producing and delivering these bug-bots, 'cause they only have access to the resources in their base here. But what if they got the high ranking neumono their agents infected to build or re-appropriate fabrication facilities to make more of the bug-bots in secret. Then the agents and the infected neumono spread the bots around. For all we know, whole ultrahives are infected. ...Of course this is all speculation, but I damn well hope it's not what's happened.
>>
No. 66187 ID: 6dc5a6

>>66183

Well if the neumono homeworld gets bugged on a massive level Polo can always run away to a certain shipwrecking asteroid. I hear the electromagnetic emissions are lovely this time of year.
>>
No. 66188 ID: be7fd9

I doubt we have the range and/or equipment for a significant mass broadcast, even assuming we get out of the caves and away from the jamming. That would probably require science and plot to pull off- we'd need to hijack a radio tower, or the enemy comm center again. (...or collect stuff for Korli to build what we need?).

Which is a risky play, since pulling that off means putting ourself on the line and trusting in the outside world responding correctly and quickly enough. ...which I have little to no faith in.

>dark thought
The absolute worst case is if the bugs can make more of themselves. In which case we've already got a zombie apocalypse scenario in which compromised neumono can infect others.
>>
No. 66190 ID: b33427

>>66188
Yeah, I don't expect Polo's group to make a mass broadcast themselves. I figured they'd get well away from the voklit reservation and the CAI's sphere of direct influence, then start calling everyone they know over the radio, starting with the least likely to have been infected and working up. Then those folks can work on getting the word out to more people, while Polo and company keep moving away from the salikai's forces.

I'm kinda pushing for getting the word out about what the salikai can do with these bugs, since it'll throw a wrench into whatever plans they have for secretly infecting the neumono population.

>Self-replicating bugs
I'm guessing that, thankfully, the components needed to make the bugs require special materials and a sterile manufacturing environment to produce; Neither of which is found in a neumono. Though, that doesn't stop one infected from having multiple bugs implanted, ready to slip out from under the skin and left where they can burrow into another neumono; Most likely in their bed to infect them in their sleep.

Anyway, we should remember to grill Korli on what she knows about building the bug-bots. How hard it is to get the materials to make them, what manufacturing facilities are needed, and how long each one took to make. Get an idea of if the salikai could have made enough bugs in the time they had to infect the Hunter Hive.

...Looking back here, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, and working on way too much speculation. We don't know if the Hunter Hive was infected before or after they landed here. The helicopter pilots being infected doesn't prove one way or the other, since they could have set foot in the forest, or been infected by another of the Hunter Hive bringing the bugs to them after they landed. Really, we don't know, and I'd rather not be making plans without knowing.

There's also one other thing that could stop the salikai from using the bugs to "remote control" neumono far away, and that's how much control they have over the infected without Four Stripes acting as "conductor." If he's needed for any complex instructions, the salikai would have to get an empathic relay near the infected target, plus all the comm gear to keep it hidden. So we're going to have to find out how much the bug-bots can do on their own, how smart they are alone, and whether those change if infected neumono are near each other.
>>
No. 66199 ID: b6edd6

I think mass-broadcasting should be a last resort. If one or more military hives like the hunter hive have been compromised, overtly revealing them while Four Stripes is still commanding them will likely lead them to go on an all-out offensive to do as much damage as they can before the ultrahive catches up with them.
>>
No. 66201 ID: 3712d7

>>66187

If the Homeworld gets bugged on such a level, I'd fully support any notion of "Reducing it to nothing but cosmic dust", because fuck the Homeworld Salikai, if they want to play hardball threatening to enslave an entire species outside fucking tribals through it's own biology for their cause of restoring it to pre-alien status, except with them keeping the tech and the control, we'll do the exact opposite and burn it all down around them.
>>
No. 66204 ID: be7fd9

>stuff needed to make more bugs not inside neumono
Maybe the bugs give them a craving to ingest metals? But yeah, I'll concede these things multiplying and spreading on their own is unlikely- the salikai probably still have to manufacture them.

>We don't know if the Hunter Hive was infected before or after they landed here
We don't have hard proof, but I think it was very unlikely they were infected after landing. A single hive has hundreds to thousands of individuals- and many of them were protected by layers of armor, and their vehicles. And they would have been on guard for exactly this kind of thing! To have stuffed a bug inside all (or even a significant portion) of them in the little time they were here... and to have no one notice the improbable string of minor injuries... I just don't see how it could have worked. It would have taken a minor miracle to pull off perfectly.

Infecting the whole hive slowly, and in advance, seems much more likely. Much easier to space out and conceal the infection, and make the injuries less suspicious. Heck, the implantations could even have been worked into the hive's medical exams or something. Make sure everyone is fit for duty, ready to deploy at a moment's notice! Give them immunizations against mind control tech!

Besides, if they had the ability to flood the valley with bugs and infect everyone in it before they notice, why didn't they do that to us? The fact they had to ambush Rokann and Biles alone instead of compromising the whole camp at once suggests they don't have that capacity.

I will agree we can't plan ahead very far with what we know. I suspect when the next thread starts, we're going to be rather busy with the immediate problems of survial and evading searchers.

>>66199
There is that. At this point, exposure risks starting a world war. If we can take out the control behind the hijacker bugs, the body count would be a lot lower.

>>66201
>counter slavery with suicidal planetary genocide
...I don't think we need to consider the Shofixti option just yet, thank you.
>>
No. 66289 ID: c4e5c2
File PoloRokoaPilon.swf - (495.72KB , 950x850 )
66289

NSFW Strip poker flash involving Polo, Rokoa, Pilon.

This has a near 100% guarantee of having bugs, feel free to let me know about their existence. Or suggestions in general, although I am so tired of working on this I probably won't get to it that soon.

You can use the numpad to activate the Maxbet, Raise/Bet, Call/stay or fold buttons with '/', '*', '-' and '+' respectively (again, on the numpad). Numpad Enter will advance the game the same way that clicking on the main text box will. Unfortunately the bet/raise input box doesn't take focus yet, nor are there hotkeys for swapping cards, so mouse control is still necessary in some places.

Oh, and the Left/Right arrow keys will swap flip images between Polo/Rokoa/Pilon. I think that's all thus far.
>>
No. 66290 ID: c4e5c2
File PoloRokoaPilon_Scale.swf - (495.74KB , 950x850 , PoloRokoaPilon Scale.swf )
66290

Here's a version that scales to the monitor/browser size since apparently that is a problem and I made the original too big.
>>
No. 66291 ID: a7d3c0

hype gg wp would recommend 2 a friend
>>
No. 66292 ID: 4a20fa

>>66290
>Face cards
I am amuse.

What did you do to break Flash's anti-aliasing, though? Are those all bitmaps?
>>
No. 66293 ID: c4e5c2

>>66292
Yeah, all of the graphics are made from embedded bitmaps (pngs)

The downside is that having to scale it down results in disappeared pixels, not as though the blurry alternative is much better for binary art.
>>
No. 66299 ID: 4a20fa

I'm not sure you've got the logic for kickers right. Ended up with both Polo and Roaka both getting a Ace-high, and both announced victory and increased their cash reserve by the pot. Per normal rules I believe you go down the set of non-set cards as tiebreakers. (I'm not sure what ends up to the pot in the case of an unbreakable tie.)

On the other hand, it actually bluffs, so there's some actual game to it.
>>
No. 66301 ID: 3712d7

While I'm not surprised in the least that Polo would be able to beat both of them without losing a single article of clothing, I AM surprised that Pilon was nude in only a few Handfuls, while Rokoa lasted nearly twice as long before shedding her shirt.

Shit Pilon, get it together.
>>
No. 66302 ID: 4a20fa

>>66301
AI bidding doesn't seem to consider funds available. Roaka finally imploded pretty violently when she was down to 230Z and decided to bet 240, thereby taking a strong hand (or bluff) and deciding to lose instead.
>>
No. 66304 ID: 7b0ada

Awesome!

Haven't finished a whole game yet, but here are my initial impressions:

*You're allowed to bet 0Z. Not sure you're supposed to be able to do that.
*It would be nice if the image rotated to show whoever was talking automatically (or maybe make it an option, for people who want to just stare at whoever is least clothed).
*Really gotta do something about the image scaling problems. At least on the cards- I've been reading my hand wrong. Workaround might be resizing the source images, or maybe giving us the card number / letter via text.
>>
No. 66305 ID: 4a20fa

>>66304
The value of a (non-face) card is the same as the number of symbols on it.

(Yeah, I derped and forgot that for a bit too.)

Also ISTR Roaka's dialogue for shirt and pants are the wrong way around.
>>
No. 66308 ID: 57a559

Wait we're Polo right? Not a blank third person?
That's cool! We get something if we lose!
>>
No. 66309 ID: a7d3c0

>>66299
Lagotrope is already aware of this one, the kickers are supposed go until you run out of cards to compare, and then finally a tie if they are all the same.

>>66304
The image showing whoever's talking would be a good option.
I would suggest just using the non-scaling version of the flash and fullscreening the page over using the scaled version. It should be playable at most resolutions that way, with lower ones having some minor issues like part of the New Game being cut off.

When Lagotrope looked before going to bed last night he didn't know of a way to have it resize in bilinear/bicubic/etc instead of nearest neighbor, so if anyone knows of a way to do that it would probably help getting a better scaled version.
>>
No. 66310 ID: f2c20c

What the heck is up with that yellow symbol that rotates between the characters?
>>
No. 66311 ID: f2c20c

After the game told me I couldn't bet past a certain max, I clicked MaxBet and it let me bet a far greater amount.
>>
No. 66312 ID: 8fecfe

>>66290
ah, I just noticed the strip-poker...
funny^^ I think I won... although I don't know the rules... or as which I was playing... but polo has now 5640G against 500 and 480 and just had to take out one piece while the others are naked...
Maybe next time I read the rules and take a look at the cards^^ although it's probably more a luck-game anyway...

But really a funny game^^
although I was secretly expecting more^^
>>
No. 66314 ID: 7b0ada

Gah! Dang thing crashed right as I was about to finally get Pilon's shirt! (Rokoa spent the whole match basically throwing money and clothes away).

>>66305
>value equals number of symbols
Yeah yeah, but it's pretty easy to miscount by 1. :p

>I would suggest just using the non-scaling version of the flash and fullscreening the page over using the scaled version.
Yeah, this works. Just enough of the new game button peeks up for me to click.

Running through flash directly now to hopefully avoid crashing again. (Dunno why, but flash + firefox + fullscreen seems a recipe for disaster on my machine).
>>
No. 66315 ID: 4a20fa

>>66310
It's the buck; it marks who is dealing, which affects who bets first. (I don't quite know what it's supposed to be a picture of, mind.)
>>
No. 66317 ID: f2c20c

After playing for a while, the game slows down a LOT. It's gradual. Maybe there's a memory leak? Data not being cleaned up, etc.
>>
No. 66322 ID: c4e5c2
File 135872144025.png - (211.70KB , 700x1000 , neumonotrytoplaypoker.png )
66322

>>66299
Yes this was new to me, I didn't realize until too late that you keep going down each high card. I thought you only looked at one unpaired high card for a tie.

>>66310
That's who the current dealer is.
Image automatically rotating to see who talks is actually a good idea. I think I will implement that at some point since it won't be too difficult as is.
And as for rescaling, yes, I wasn't aware that the browser wouldn't be able to scroll down in the case of the unscaled thing, and as LD says, I'm not aware of any non-nearest neighbor option. I'd probably have to rework the way cards are displayed to simply have text, and unfortunately AS3 handles text in insane ways, so this isn't as easy as it seems/should be.

>>66308
Yes, you control Polo.

>>66301
Pictured: Early attempts at neumono playing poker. They are awful.

>>66315
It was a hastily drawn placeholder graphics of a few cards. Emphasis on placeholder, I forgot to replace it with something more clear. The letter 'D' would likely be more informative.

>>66304
Yes this was fixed and now it's broke again.

>>66302
The AI as a whole could use some refining, but you are correct, the aspect of "I only have 230, I'd better bet not quite that much" is completely absent.

>>66305
Wrong-order dialogue is something I'm amazed I've missed so much and apparently still didn't fix.

>>66317
And lastly yes, this was an issue for at least a couple other people as well. Which is strange, as while I could see myself forgetting to properly remove certain objects regularly, the way I set it up SHOULD allow for flash's garbage collection to throw it out. Still, apparently something's being hung onto that shouldn't that must be building up over time. I'll have to look into that since that is pretty bad.

Also special thanks to Lawyerdog who helped with beta alpha testing.

Otherwise, originally there were going to be more images, but I did want to do a public release at some point. So next version likely will have more images along with a bit better AI/performance/other kinks.
>>
No. 66325 ID: 8fecfe

I made the experience, that downloading the file and opening it into a local flash viewer is incredible performant!
e.g. the flash player projector for windows:
http://download.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/updaters/10/flashplayer_10_sa.exe
I think Firefox has some problems with the current flash-player-plugin, so downloading the .swf and opening it within that has given me the best result!

I also finally read the rules and lost immediately^^
>>
No. 66326 ID: 7b0ada

>Yes, you control Polo.
Fridge brilliance: any flawed AI giving the player an advantage can be blamed on Polo's silence giving her an in universe edge.
>>
No. 66328 ID: c4e5c2

>>66326
This is actually intentional in many areas, at least with how Pilon/Rokoa's face indicates how good their hand is.

Also after briefly looking around, while flash/AS3 does have garbage collection, it is pretty shitty. Shouldn't be too hard to fix (although I don't have the tools to test it properly other than playing a lot to see if I get the same issue), I just sort of assumed it was doing its job. So that will likely have improvements unlike scaling issues, I'm sorry to say for the latter.
>>
No. 66331 ID: 3712d7

>>66326

Silence notwistanding, as they could be in a jammer, I imagine Polo to have a pretty damn flawless Poker face at the worst of times.
>>
No. 66337 ID: f2c20c

>>66328
I noticed that Rokoa has a tendency to bluff like crazy and make/take on big bets, while Pilon is much more conservative with betting and folds often... yet when it's just Rokoa and Pilon, they go back and forth forever and nobody wins.

Pilon also has an inherent disadvantage since he only has 3 articles of clothing, rather than the girls' 4. It's rather difficult for him to win! Even trying to make him win on purpose takes a while since he's so conservative.

Letting him win is rather amusing actually, considering what he says and what that implies.
>>
No. 66338 ID: 7b0ada

I have to say, I'm almost surprised we don't have to strip Polo out her green armor first. Or that Rokoa doesn't offer up a body part or two when she's out of clothes.

>Letting him win is rather amusing actually, considering what he says and what that implies.
...time to go back and try to manufacture AI wins! (shouldn't be too hard to bankrupt Rokoa and then lose to him on purpose...)
>>
No. 66353 ID: a00410
File 135875328031.gif - (5.72KB , 449x422 , Polonude.gif )
66353

I'm starting to notice that Neumono are just plane busty. Polo is about the smallest breasted one I have seen to date and she is still quite generous. By the way, I had to work to lose. It's hard. Unlike the uncanny luck and skill of the other strip poker I have seen on this site. This one is hard to lose at.
>>
No. 66363 ID: 1b2709

Pilon is easy to scare into folding, even though he's willing to bet some to start out with. Rokoa is crazy and bets large amounts ending up with King or Ace high.
It took me a while to adjust to this one, there are strategies that work on the original strip poker game better, but I agree, this one is easier overall.

Most of the complaints I have have been mentioned already. The AI likes to raise eachother over and over, and then fold spontaneously after a long raise streak, which is really inconsistent for poker strategy. They could use more chance to call instead of fold (or instead of raising maybe). Also the fact that people instantly lose instead of being able to go all-in and win a partial pot, but that's minor rules nitpicking.
Overall, I liked it for a small random distraction. Good work!
>>
No. 66368 ID: 67bbe8

>>66353
... so you censored it?^^
Because it's a challenge to loose this game?
>>
No. 66369 ID: 7b0ada

>>66368
It wasn't censored originally. Apparently someone with spooky voodoo powers is defending Polo's dignity. You'll just have to go through the trouble of losing the game yourself!
>>
No. 66370 ID: 695191

>>66368
Well, it takes a damn long while at least.
>>
No. 66371 ID: dcee26

I managed to get Polo to lose, but then Pilon and Rokoa kept playing. I'm pretty sure I watched them play for a good 100-ish turns. There was no end in sight. If you're gonna take a dive, take out one of them first. xD
>>
No. 66375 ID: 284f99

>>66368
Yeah Weird. I just put a work safe Jiniki up.
Some Admin must have played a joke. Oh well. It not that hard to see.
>>
No. 66377 ID: 57a559

>>66375
I told you Lagotrope was within the system
Watching, waiting to use his post editing powers. Justifying its use as chaos god powers. Only I suppose in here it is actually a CAI, unless of course Cheeverse and Astverse are one and the same.

Good suggestions switched to poor suggestions on a whim, for a more immersive chaotic posting experience.
>>
No. 66397 ID: c6ec33

I am embarrassed to admit that it took me well after I beat Rokoa and well into a 30-minute stalemate with Pilon to realize that their icons actually changed with their hands...

After that, the game was a lot easier. It still took a while to whittle down Pilon, but I eventually got him.

Also, I have no idea why people are saying it's hard to lose this game. When I played to lose, I didn't win a single hand on my quest for polo's tits. It took maybe 5 minutes. :V

For people who want easy mode: Set it to 500 starting credits and 250 strip credits.
>>
No. 66802 ID: b132d0

Katz: so... how do you keep that large cuddable frame in shape?
also rokoa: go on, give us your cutest look
>>
No. 66813 ID: c4e5c2
File 135966460109.png - (11.04KB , 700x700 , KatzatiDiscAnswer.png )
66813

>Katz: so... how do you keep that large cuddable frame in shape?
Just an unusually slow metabolism mixed with a diet of, well, a lot! I don't constantly eat junk food all day or anything, but I still eat a bunch.
>>
No. 66817 ID: c4e5c2
File 135967752851.png - (11.01KB , 700x700 , rokoaCuteface.png )
66817

>rokoa: go on, give us your cutest look
This IS my cutest look.
>>
No. 66821 ID: 908c2d

>>66817
She is an adorable little sociopath, isn't she.
>>
No. 66826 ID: 57a559

Rokoa, you should consider selling your image like Polo has. It isn't selling out, really. I mean, the CAI would love a little Rokoa plushie with that psychotic smile. We just need to set up a factory district at the hub and we can get to making merchandise.

Pilon can probably get on the deal too. It's a foolish thing to waste 2/3 most famous (and coincidentally adorable) neumono this side of the start system on just mere combat, not when we all can strike it rich with MERCHANDISING!

Think this asshole just has a one track mind with the interspecies space pornograpghy and erotic dancing? Hell no!
>>
No. 66828 ID: 997ce7

>>66826
I am willing to bet a very large sum of internet monies that you just want to hump the Rokoa plushies. Possibly the Pilon plushies too, depending on which way you swing.
>>
No. 66830 ID: 5d98c3

>>66828
I know Elephant already has his ready.
>>66826
Don't bother selling out, Rokoa. The DVD lists the producer. Just walk up to him and receive your royalties. It was your story too...
>>
No. 66838 ID: 57a559

>>66828
Whatever happened to cuddling with teddy bears? Wasn't that popular once?
>>
No. 66841 ID: beeca1

>>66838
In real life? Not that I know of. In movies and other media? Mostly only as a way to show the innocence and vulnerability of prepubescent children.

A pubescent/postpubescent human being such as yourself? It's generally assumed with varying degrees of seriousness that if you bother bringing it to bed you're going to pleasure yourself with it. Particularly if you choose the name "Dirtbag".
>>
No. 66843 ID: 57a559

>>66841
I simply admire sewing craft, and find the novelty of such an object endearing, espeically ones with nicer high quality fabrics and make. All my dirt is in my words, not my actions.
Rokoa and Pilon plushies CAN make us good bank, legit. Every child on the Asteroid will want one, collectors as well, admirers of craft, AND real dirtbags.

The thing about my name is that it is self-proclaimed. Have you ever met a man who self-proclaimed a title that truly deserved it? It is also an excuse, by donning the skin or name of a "Dirtbag", I have lowered the bar. And can rise above it far more easier than a user called "Clean Joe"
>>
No. 66851 ID: b132d0

katzati needs aaaallll the hugs... also Dirtbag, you should totally make an alt called CleanJoe
>>
No. 66852 ID: 908c2d

If and when we get back to playing the asteroid-CAI, and if we have spare fabber cycles? Amusing merchandizing sounds like exactly the kind of antics we should be getting up to.

The best part will be coming up with pointless accessories and intractability for the stuffed dolls. For instance, the Rokoa doll obviously has to come with working firecrackers, or the modern space-future equivalent. And it should be dismemberable. And it should have real death(grip) cuddling action!™ Which can be used in conjunction with the appropriately smaller Polo doll. Who in turn should come with dress up clothes (armor), popguns, and a coffee cake tea party set (sold separately).
>>
No. 66858 ID: ec06d0

>>66841
>In real life? Not that I know of.
You've never seen a bed with stuffed animals on it? Really?
>>
No. 66861 ID: b53faa
File 135976506416.png - (13.03KB , 924x106 , dickse.png )
66861

So when are we going to focus on the true hero of our story?
>>
No. 66863 ID: 5d98c3
File 135976605789.png - (120.93KB , 639x700 , Polo\'s True Form.png )
66863

Hey, hey, you know what else?

One character's totally unstoppable, carries like ten guns around at all times, and wears green face concealing helmets. Can you guess who it is?
[spoiers]It's Polo[/spoilers]
>>
No. 66869 ID: b6edd6

>>66863
I think AstroidQuest is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills predators and doesn't afraid of anything.
>>
No. 66876 ID: 6d69a5

>>66863

So was Polo the salikai all along?
>>
No. 66879 ID: 5d98c3

>>66876
Yes. She's also and Tyler Durden.
>>
No. 66886 ID: b53faa

>>66861
According to the page he is also male and at the age of thirty
Nothing else is given, but I think we have a positive
DEMAND FOR A CHAPTER STARRING THE FREE MAN
>>
No. 66902 ID: 5d98c3

>>66886
Be careful what you wish for, with our luck it'll be a full chapter following his shrapnel filled remains about, if he was in the Tank.
>>
No. 66928 ID: b53faa

>>66902
that sounds like a wonderful adventure
it must be an entire thread of people trying to get a corpse to do something
and every response leads to a picture of the corpse decomposing
with the text
"You are a corpse. You start to rot slightly."
>>
No. 66959 ID: b53faa

So what if the CAI that Alison and Company are striving to become winds up being important to the main asteroidquest line
What if when we formatted that CAI
We accidentally erased Alison and co from existence?
>>
No. 66960 ID: 908c2d

>>66959
It's unlikely that Alison and co are in, are fighting against, or will become the Asteroid-CAI.

Remember, the the scanners on that storage container, and the CAI itself, had no idea what a neumono was. Whereas, from all indications, neumono were in some way invoked in setting up whatever twisted experiment Alison and co are a part of.

Also, there's the fact that the known Asteroidverse timeline spans a good two hundred years. Unnatural selection could be taking place anywhen along that. It doesn't have to sync up nicely with one of the two timeframes we're already familiar with.
>>
No. 66964 ID: ec06d0

>>66928
As I Lay Dying: The Quest.
>>
No. 66970 ID: 04b86a

I just rechecked the dates in Likol's photo album from the second UnSe thread. Assuming the later ones are A.W. (I'm applying Occam's Razor, there) and that it hasn't been retconned, the very earliest the quest could be happening is 379 A.W., which would make Polo at least 281 years old.
>>
No. 66994 ID: 908c2d

>>66970
I've been reluctant to assume those are dated in AW. I'd thought maybe the sudden change to color photography (and the outright statement that digital photography was brought to the planet) placed Likol's photographs more around the time of the neumono first contact (65AW, 70 years before the events of the intermission).

Alison also explicitly mentions the BW / AW dating system in the last thread. Meaning historian has at least some materials that are dated unambiguously.
>>
No. 67027 ID: b53faa

made a polo favicon in the favicon thread, was gonna TRY posting it here too, but it won't let me do so. Drat.
Asteroidquest icons are in there too.
>>
No. 67037 ID: b33427

>>66994
Presumably, after the neumono made contact, there was a lot of shaking up, with hives fighting, merging, splitting, allying, and so on, and they hadn't all settled on the BW/AW year calendar. So it's not that unlikely that him, or his hive, allied or joined a coalition of other hives, and he took up the calendar they shared. That calendar would eventually be phased out, but for the time he took those photographs it was in effect.
>>
No. 67038 ID: b53faa

So what would happen if a CAI got ahold of a japanese sex robot
>>
No. 67067 ID: beeca1

>>67038
Us
>>
No. 67068 ID: 908c2d

>>67038
A frenzied round of disturbing and hilarious hugging, followed by seduction attempts (which would either go horribly wrong or horribly right- with no middle ground) and/or brazen moneymaking scams. Likely there would be an attempt at augmentation, customization, and reserve engineering / duplication as well.

Although, since there are several people with more than an once of sense to their name at the trade hub, I expect the robot would be forcibly shut down and/or shot before we could cause much chaos. Which would then be followed by the CAI whining and exaggeratedly widely about the things it would have done. And teasing / hitting on whoever was responsible for the shutting down.

(I mean really, you have to ask? The chain of events almost writes itself!).
>>
No. 67337 ID: 908c2d

Huh. That's weird.

If you follow the link to Polo Quest in the wiki, it doesn't take you to the completed thread in /questarch/. Instead it takes you to one in /quest/ that cuts off right after we shot the helicopter. Not sure how to fix that- infobox has the right thread ID, and I'm not sure what magic it uses to tell it to look in the appropriate board.
>>
No. 67342 ID: c4e5c2

>>67337
Strange, it works for me. Either it was fixed since then, or it's just broken for you. Or only fixed for me.
>>
No. 67345 ID: 908c2d

Well, if it's just me, that's fine. My browser or connection will eventually get over whatever stupid is sending it to the wrong place. If it actually bothers anyone else, I could force the link with a prethread or specthread or something.

So... what's next anyways? Do we finally get to do the questionably canonical adventures of Mafia Alison? :V
>>
No. 67347 ID: eb682d

>>67345
I just checked and I'm having the problem as well.
>>
No. 67348 ID: c4e5c2
File 136070224106.gif - (29.68KB , 800x424 , definitelynotapremadeupdate.gif )
67348

>>67345
That is a bafflingly tempting idea for a one shot, but actual-canonical Alison has been neglected far more than she should be. A new UnSe thread will likely begin by the end of this week.
>>
No. 67350 ID: c80574

>>67348

If that happens I just KNOW it's going to end up with Mafia Alison and all her previous iterations actually having hearts of gold with cruel but exceedingly efficient methods and icy attitudes.

I can somehow just feel it in my gutmeats.
>>
No. 67352 ID: 908c2d
67352

>>67347
Alright then. I'll force the link to the right board with a specthread link for now. Hopefully whatever is causing the hiccup with thread-board sorting magic will get over it by the time we have more Polo and/or asteroid threads to add.

>>67348
Ooh! Animated! =D
>>
No. 67376 ID: 9ee360

>>/quest/492423
Alright... so...

9,341BW = 3199CD
There are 421 days in a Belenosian year.

If we assume for the moment that a Belenosian and Earth day are the same length (which may not be sound) we can work out a (rough) conversion factor between calenders! (There's gonna be rounding errors, since the years aren't the same length. Unless of course you want to account for the exact date / day / decimal value of the year. Which I couldn't do even we I wanted right now, since we don't know the ???/365 9,341BW that corresponds to 398/421 3199CD). I'm also amusing Civilization Date is counting forwards (presumably from the founding of their civilization?).

(year in AW) * 365/421 + 11298 ≈ (year in CD)
((year in CD) - 11298) * 421/365 ≈ (year in AW)

Where you treat years in BW as negative AW.

...this doesn't actually help us with Historian at the moment though, since the Belenosian date he gave us was in CY, not CD. >>67144 Unless they're the same thing? In which case our most recent Belenosian records predate even the thousands year old war we're simulating.
>>
No. 67378 ID: c4e5c2

Historian meant CD, but for all intents and purposes CY and CD can be interchangeable.
>>
No. 67459 ID: b6edd6

It now occurs to me that Alison appears to be joining the mafia :V
>>
No. 67476 ID: 57a559

Yes, unofficial mafia Alison is go
And I think I know how the CAI wins everytime with this simulation
It obviously remembers the shortest path to the goal for each simulation, which has probably been run a hell of a bunch of times. That CAI isn't Ryan Reynolds, it's Bill fucking Murray.
>>
No. 67482 ID: 5d98c3

>>67476
Oh god. Does that mean the CAI has mastered every possible skill ever as well?
>>
No. 67484 ID: 57a559

Likely
For example, in this simulation, it would know about the closest blueprints for weapons available, or simply knows the make of all of them by now that it just forms them of pure unadulterated knowledge.
Or it's developed hacks and takes advantage of all know glitches, which being a simulation and sort of a video game it plays every week isn't that much of a stretch. And sandbox games are FULL of glitches.
Bill Murray CAI rides the swingset to goal every week. There's probably one in every simulation the system forgets about each cycle if the system is what repairs the glitches in the CAI battles. Of course, the system is a faction of AI's in the simulation itself, so there might be a different thing governing conditions entirely.
>>
No. 67487 ID: 9ee360

How much the CAI's been able to perfect playing through these scenarios depends slightly on how randomized they are. If they're the same each time it's very bad- because the CAI essentially has a time-loop advantage. It's done this before, it knows where stuff is, and how people will react (barring our butterfly effect changing things as we play the game too).

If the simulations are more sorta roguelikes with heavy randomization, we're still at a disadvantage, but not as bad. The CAI knows what to expect, what will be available, how things work, etc, but not necessarily how to find everything they need to speedrun and sequence break.

...and yeah, you do kind of need to draw a line between the system (an enslaved an not fully informed collection of moderators and enforces) and the System (the virtual apparatus / universe we're all enclosed in, that makes things happen and decides randomized factors (like puzzles)).

We should probably choose a new world to describe what we're in, since we're already using system to describe what is basically just another faction of prisoners. I think I've called it the simulation before, but now that we have another layer of historical simulations inside this virtual hell, that doesn't exactly remove ambiguity.
>>
No. 67489 ID: b33427

>>67487
Given the likelihood of this, I think we ought to change our objective from killing the Sapphire Emperor before Sevener does, to killing or capturing Sevener and keeping the Sapphire Emperor alive for as long as possible; Possibly indefinitely if he could be captured, stuffed in cryo-stasis and hidden away.

I say this because if Alison and company are to have any hope against the CAI in the final fight, they will have to master as many skills as possible in the the challenge simulation, and learn as much as they can about the setting the simulation is based on. Putting the Emperor on ice effectively stops the clock on leaving the simulation (as far as we know,) giving them the time they need.

The same would have to be done for the two other CAI challenge simulation settings as well, since the final choice is unknown.
>>
No. 67597 ID: 57a559

>>/quest/493830
She's comfortable killing motherfuckers now that shit has gotten real and she's stopping with the whole "lets make peace" schtick now we're in a brutal, realistic sim with a lot of people depending on us.

I get what I'm about to say that sounds like an awful thing to say when this isn't in jest, but I feel it needs to be said. Comfort went out the window a few safe houses to go. We need every possible skill in our repertoire to survive this thing and win it, and we may need to sell ourselves out completely and utterly, going to places none of us want to go and touch to win this. Killing a person isn't a last resort, but we've made sex a last resort for the sake of comfort apparently? We have more people here than just Allison that could do this if she can't stomach it. This is beyond curiosity or jokes. We might have to embarrass ourselves in front of our compatriots to do the right thing and survive for them. We are a leader. We do not HAVE the option of comfort. And if we make sex the thing on the table that no one can deal with, then it might mean failure. What about other things then? Are there things we won't do in this sim that doesn't have anything to deal with sex? Is that the only thing? Alison shouldn't give something that natural so much power in the first place because we're going to go places nobody would want to go. There are tougher decisions, actions, and questions then this, and we've made them, done them, and asked them. And are continue to going to make them in the future. We can't risk looping again.

I am not talking about sleeping our way to the top or for quick bucks. I am saying that we should drop the notion of comfort and be professional in front of our peers and show our loyalty and courage in front of them, and be prepared to drop the barriers. We should establish a code and stick to it. We shouldn't make the code on what makes us uncomfortable, but what we feel is right, practical, and keeps us sane and humane and above all else, that it serves the greater good of the group.
>>
No. 67600 ID: 57a559

>>67597
I would also like to clarify I did not make this post for perversion.
I believe this is an issue that needed to be addressed. It could have been anything other than sex. Like overeating, killing a threat that we would not be comfortable with for whatever reason, etc.

For the greater good. We've essentially pooped in front of everyone for the greater good. Why not other things?

goddang can never get a post right these days
>>
No. 67605 ID: 78c6ea

Ugh, we're screwed. Police scanners show the location of every legal Jetal, whether they're scanning our core, in a government building or anything. There's got to be a way to simulate one of those location transmitters now, or we won't get ten feet before the police swarm us.
>>
No. 67606 ID: 9ee360

>>67605
That only means they confirm we aren't legal if they make us as a jetal. Which can be done, but everyone doesn't seem to unless they're paying attention.

It should be possible to blend in with crowds and hide, passing for an organic or regular robot.
>>
No. 67608 ID: b6edd6

>>67606
Hmm... maybe we should try to disguise ourself by hollowing out a spare robot exoskeleton and then shifting to inhabit it. That should help keep our range of motion roughly the same as a robot's, as well as possibly providing some protection if we go with a combat model.
>>
No. 67609 ID: 57a559

I'm not too concerned. Cops in this place are shitty and corrupt, they'd only care about a jetal like us if it came from the top, we're making too much trouble for them, or we kill one.

A jetal off the radar is insanely useful to them as much as it is for the Batteries. You can't track their location or where they go or what they do, merely identify them. You have only heresay for what they do, where they go, etc. Which is perfect for both corrupt and good cops. Corrupt cops would want assistance in their scams. Good cops will want the totalitarian regime fucked up or assitence with stopping assholes they hate, corrupt cops or drug dealers they have a vendetta againt. Corrupt cops would betray you at a moments notice for the reward though, as soon as you stop being useful.

If this investigator is a McNulty, we score pretty good on who to get.
>>
No. 67615 ID: 9ee360

...why can't we ever do anything without someone insisting we spill the da trooth! at the first dang opportunity?

Telling people inside a simulation they're living in a simulation (without any kind of proof) is not going to help us achieve our goal in the simulation.
>>
No. 67627 ID: 57a559

American fiction (perhaps this is an international issue, but all I can speak for is american) often have characters skirt around issues a lot when telling the truth would have been the simplest way to go about things and minimize consequences, which creates a reflex for viewers to scream at characters to just fucking tell the truth already goddamn. So it's unsurprising there are many suggesters that want to cut through all the bullshit. There's also the desire to shock and awe and blow people's minds with big truths, which always feels good when it actually happens. When they don't believe us it's annoying, but what are we going to do about that besides present the truth better.
>>
No. 67629 ID: 9ee360

As suppose as a reflexive response to all the idiot-lies we have to put up with in fiction, it makes sense.

But I really don't see it as an unnecessary lie, here. How exactly do you convince people living in the matrix that they are? And even worse- our mission is to wake the wind fish and end the dream. The rational response to our truth spilling is to either disbelieve us and write us off as a crazy AI. Or if they believe us- to locate Unity and Sevener, strip both of them of all jetal, and imprison them as naked cores indefinitely. So long as both AI factions and the Saphire Emperor live, the simulation won't end. So they buy themselves until the end of his natural life span, at least. And then whichever one of us gets killed first in the chaotic aftermath of his deadman switch going off loses.

So as far as I can see it, belief and disbelief are both bad outcomes!

We have been truthful with almost everyone about almost everything else, though. The only lie (of omission) I'm worried about is if and when the mob we joined discovers Loviro and the charger we lead them to believe we didn't have.
>>
No. 67678 ID: b33427

Has it been established what Belenosians are able to eat? That is, without any technological augmentations. Are they herbivores or omnivores by default? I'm wondering because I remember it was mentioned or implied somewhere in AsteroidQuest that they're herbivores, but then we've got "steak thing" on the food court menu in the Belenosian simulation, so I'm unsure.
>>
No. 67684 ID: 9ee360

>>67678
We asked Itcher about that in ITQ. See >>63863
>>
No. 67728 ID: b33427

>>67684
Oh, right. Thanks for finding that.

So that means that "steak thing" Unity ate, along with what looked something like a cheeseburger later on, is either all veggies, or based on plant protein from whatever the Belenosian equivalent of tofu is. Well, it's either that or the simulation is seriously fudging things up.

Now I'm wondering how well belenosians can handle eating animal produced foods, such as eggs or dairy products.
>>
No. 67729 ID: f9753d

>>67629

Alright, so belief and disbelief are both unfavorable outcomes. This leaves Plan A, "Don't bring it up", and Plan B, "Total Confusion". We all know what to do now.
>>
No. 67731 ID: c4e5c2

>>67728
The food Alison got was actual meat. Belenosians can have it, and as Itcher said, they just suck at digesting it. More specifically, they're inefficient at getting the nutrients it has. It's still enoyed by a lot of belenos, so in a sense, meat is one of their not-completely-terrible junk foods.
>>
No. 67826 ID: 57a559

You know, thinking back on the walk-in incident at the brothel, I found it weird that the hooker would have battle enhancements. Not weird that she was a robot, just that she had some good shit.

And then I realized, the John was actually a Gigolo. That prostitute wasn't a prostitute at all!
>>
No. 67872 ID: 3b15bd

for those who have been left behind like me and have two or three full days to kill, I really recommend trying to catch up to Lago's quests while listening to the Homestuck albums.

psychotropics further increase enjoyability but are not recommended for the weak of heart.
>>
No. 68052 ID: 57a559

Whenever EIN pops up I think of a corgi
I wonder if that's the intention?
>>
No. 68084 ID: d6ef5d

Goddamn, Lago. Sevener's revelation is a masterstroke. That's exactly what we would have done- trying to abuse the time loop to save everyone. She's reacting to the actions we would have taken without us ever actually having to take them. Way to use us against ourselves.
>>
No. 68113 ID: f2c20c

We need to find the backup.

Find that, take it through whatever happens at the endgame, and we save everyone. It doesn't matter if almost everyone dies at the end, so long as we have the backup.

It's either that, or collect literally everyone's ghosts and take them through like that. To do that we'd also need to find the backup too, though.

Finding the backup is the most important thing we can do. I'm going to guess that we've actually found it before, but the logs of it have been deleted.
>>
No. 68116 ID: de262c

>>68052
I am now managing a massive control room where every robot in the belenos homeworld is monitored... with a very confused corgi sitting in the middle, pressing buttons at random.
>>
No. 68119 ID: 5d98c3

>>68116
So THAT'S where the UFOs came from. All of Silent Hill's loose ends make sense now!
>>
No. 68128 ID: c4e5c2
File 136194293435.png - (59.74KB , 3193x646 , asteroidNewborn.png )
68128

In un-UnSe related things, asteroid species babies.
>>
No. 68129 ID: c4e5c2
File 136194295427.png - (67.09KB , 3454x1000 , asteroidNewborn2.png )
68129

Also the arguably minor characters.
>>
No. 68130 ID: d6ef5d

>>68126
>>68127
...Lago, I fucking love you. Those are adorable.

I'm sort of surprised the Salikai don't have a diffident looking larval state, or have to grow in limbs.
>>
No. 68132 ID: c31f72

Is that a baby CAI? If so, that is the most awesome adorable thing I've seen. If not, its still adorable, just not quite as awesome.
>>
No. 68140 ID: ca3024

>>68128

is that a miklik growing out of the soil? also I don't recognize the fluffy bird.
>>
No. 68143 ID: beeca1

>>68140
Yes, and the bird is one of those bird-things like the captain Hok threw the bio-armor on at the start of the first chapter.
>>
No. 68145 ID: d6ef5d

...it occurs to me we have a whole line of plant-based insults we never exploited with Mikliks.

>>68143
There was also a Heef among the recurring background mobster characters during the Jess and Itcher arc. He kind of got killed with everyone in the clusterfuck at the bar, though.

They're like the discriminated minority of asteroid quest. They only get cast in bit parts, as villains, and as characters who die. :V

(Okay, I lie. According to the roster there's a few working for the trade hub too, but I don't think we ever saw them on camera).
>>
No. 68147 ID: 5d98c3

>>68145
And now for an eight-hundred image sidestory about a Heef who works in a meat packing plant.
>>
No. 68150 ID: 5bf190

Been thinking about the UnSe loop. Need to save everyone. Something drastic would clearly be necessary. Would have to cheat, at the highest level. Had an idea.

Evidence suggests two CAIs, one at the top mostly ignoring us until we get up there, one down below (all our dudes) trying to rise up. CAI at the top probably has a lot of power over the system but can't directly interfere with their challenger... except by indirect stuff like adding bugs, entities like Corrupter/Glitcher/Saviour etc.? May be why the system is so glitchy and things only get fixed when they get pointed out, topside CAI does what it can, or did what it could, to make the new system stop colliding with it, by just breaking the whole process.

A plan for Allison to save everyone; go up, all in, strongest dudes only, final destination. Defeat the CAI, become the CAI, then glitch the system so that the whole things starts again, with new copies of Allison + Co. going through the stages, with the previous iteration still in place as the CAI. Once the new guys reach the top, they're you, so it's easy to reach a peace and just merge the alternates together. Keep recycling the system, it's probably hardlocked enough to keep it from being set to easy mode, but influence things as much as you can so that there's some respite. More importantly, manipulate who it is who reaches the end, so everyone gets to absorb several alternate thems, for completeness. Then, start cycling through the players. All of them. Several times. Always merging at the end, cycling again. Until everyone has survived at least a few times and merged so that the CAI at the top now has a version of everyone, versions who are arguably more "really them" than any particular instance, since they're amalgams of the same individual through several "lives". Then you take the last crew on board and finally shut the whole thing down. Allison + company win and get out with one of everyone.

But what if that's already what's happened? What if, when they reach that last fight, they end up just meeting themselves? "Sorry to put you through all that, me, but just come on merge with us and we'll have added another 34 people. Only a few million more cycles to go!" Hence, secret help. Certain logs being deleted, keys going to certain people, notes, all to manipulate things so that the designated people get saved this cycle. Corruptor, Saviour, added to manipulate outcomes? One to boost the right people up, the other to keep as many no-hopers as happy and safe as possible until the cycle ends? Stage 9, rumored to once not be so bad, turned into a meat grinder to help clear the people who've already had their turn to merge it up?

Is a few hundred thousand lifetimes of stress, pain, death and occasional good times a low enough price to pay for saving everyone?
>>
No. 68152 ID: c4e5c2
File 136199406774.png - (48.41KB , 700x1000 , barkno.png )
68152

It's always an accident I swear.
>>
No. 68153 ID: c4e5c2

>>68132
Yes, that is a baby CAI.

>>68140
Also yes, mikliks grow out of the ground. Their leaving the ground is akin to hatching from an egg I suppose.

Also the bird things are, as mentioned above, Heefs, and apt to forgetting/not knowing what they are since so far they have been nothing but exceedingly minor characters, also as mentioned above.
>>
No. 68154 ID: d6ef5d

>>68152
XD

>>68153
So when do Mikliks celebrate their birthday? On the day they sprout, or the day they uproot themselves?
>>
No. 68172 ID: c4e5c2

>>68154
The day of uprooting.
>>
No. 68173 ID: c4e5c2
File 136201846810.png - (12.48KB , 700x468 , jetal1.png )
68173

I think there is some confusion about what a supercore is, so I am going to try to explain it here.

A supercore isn't so much a single physical component so much as it is a (nonabsorbable) addon to otherwise normal cores.

In a supercore of 3, the jetals will behave much as normal, but they'll be linked throughout space (even through walls). So, the supercore is more a term that encompasses all of the jetals, sort of like a team with team-bonuses.
>>
No. 68174 ID: c4e5c2
File 136201854810.png - (31.51KB , 700x1180 , jetal2.png )
68174

In Fig. A, they all have their normal stats, which can differ from one another.

If the middle one is going to fight, then the other two can direct their abilities (addons that say the first jetal might have, and battery power, though only the surge values are included here) to the middle one. Jetal 2 will gain boosts, while jetal 1 and 3 will have significantly detracted stats. The numbers don't add necessarily add up evenly, and similarly, weapons lose some power in transferring. If jetal 1 was the only one with kilobeam B, then jetal 2 would not be able to use it quite as effectively compared to if jetal 1, the original owner, was the active recepient of the supercore bonuses.

Any of the 3 jetals in the supercore team can be the recepient, so they can flip it. In Fig. C, potential numbers are shown for if jetal 3 were the new recepient. Again, numbers have variation, depending on the jetals similarities, differences, and some jetals just handle being in a supercore better than others.

Lastly, if all 3 try to fight at once, diminishing returns will stack, as shown in Fig D. They will all be weaker if they try to fight at the same time compared to their base stats, provided they are in sueprcore range.

The range of supercore transfer is around 50-100 meters. If a jetal is out of range of other supercores, they will behave as though they are not in a supercore at all, with neither benefits nor disadvantages, and so supercore jetals can still all fight at the same time IF they are very far away.
>>
No. 68179 ID: b33427

>>68173
>>68174
Thanks for the explanation, Lago; It really helps. I hope it'll enlighten at least a couple people and prevent a few bad suggestions from being made.

>>68128
>>68129
My god, they're all ridiculously cute. The little predator is adorable, and the little neumono's expression like he's thinking "these shorts are too tight" makes me smile. I also find it amusing that he looks like what I imagine Pilon did when he was that age, back before his ears grew out.
>>
No. 68193 ID: 450660

>>68128
>>68129

Please send help.

I am dying of cute overload.
>>
No. 68341 ID: d6ef5d
File 136225292135.png - (40.73KB , 800x600 , Asteroid Onions.png )
68341

Okay, based on the information we just scrounged up, here's my guess at what is actually happening.

The CAI simulation started up, and we were placed inside the Belenosian built thought criminal matrix inside their simulated universe. (So the CAI battle hasn't been running for 40 years. The harvester sim, in the context of the game we just started, has been running 40 years). In order to take out the the Emperor, we need to escape into the real (simulated) world. Which then frees us from the CAI battle and brings us back to the contest simulation. Where we can set about trying to free ourselves from that and reaching what is hopefully the real world.

Picture hopefully clear than words.
>>
No. 68344 ID: 662219
 

im confus
>>
No. 68345 ID: 76b151

Thoughts on who to take with us.

The Super-Core. (why not)

The Dead Batteries. The ultimate repayment for helping us out so much... and the ultimate jail break.

Alys, Felix, the Bum, Loviro, Vinyl.

Allies will be great. And if we can seize control of whatever produces the bodies we can outfit 'em with weapons.
>>
No. 68348 ID: 78c6ea
File 136225840892.png - (52.77KB , 1335x733 , uns-situation.png )
68348

I'm more worried this is the case.
>>
No. 68349 ID: d6ef5d
File 136225868602.png - (45.54KB , 800x600 , Asteroid Onions.png )
68349

>>68341
Oh, I forgot to put a circle showing we're technically inside a jetal core, inside a simulation inside a simulation inside a simulation. :V

The entire Asteroidverse is gonna turn out to be inside a crystal ball sitting on Chee's or Tom's desk anyways, innit.
>>
No. 68424 ID: 78c6ea

>>68348

Wow, my ability to diagram sucks.
>>
No. 68453 ID: 57a559

I just realized the Dead batteries, especially Polatt, are dressed up as the Zionists when they're in the matrix. Trenchcoats and sunglasses.
>>
No. 68454 ID: d6ef5d

>>68453

Oh my gods. And our would be allies to escape and cease contributing to the matrix are the dead batteries. XD

I can't believe it took me this long to get that.
>>
No. 68456 ID: 78c6ea

>>68454

Perhaps they made a mistake allying with us then. Alison isn't what anyone would call subtle.
>>
No. 68540 ID: d6ef5d

>Anya
Calling it. This is the name Alison gave Sevener in the loops they were allied. She probably didn't even know it herself until she found that was how all her logs were labelled.
>>
No. 68541 ID: 76b151

Speaking of hacking the simulation via belief I wonder if it would be possible to believe that Robots and cyborg equipment will let a Jetal copy it. I mean Alison already has that ability with Ability Absorb, and its not out of the question that some things would carry over.

All we'd have to do is be firmly convinced that it is so.And considering how flexible rules have been I see no reason why it wouldn't be.
>>
No. 68606 ID: 24eca0

After all this revelations of circles and simulations and the typically heroic "I will save you" I sure hope it doesn't come to the worst quest-ending:
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/src/133576623651.png
>>
No. 68607 ID: 57a559

maybe ben will come in and save the day and say "What is all this useless experimenting going on in here? Ugh, look at that, valuable AI in a petry dish going unattended in a loop forever, phooeey. I'll just use 'em for MY experiment now."
>>
No. 68693 ID: d6ef5d

>>/quest/498932
It occurs to me that more than anyone else, Guardsman really reminds us that these people are supposed to make up a CAI.

The crazy has to come from somewhere.
>>
No. 68695 ID: 76b151

>>68693
Well our tendancy to accept people who aren't the most moral of souls into our group does kinda lead us to this. Honestly though I have no complaints. We need someone like gaurdsman to suggest paths like his when appropriate.
>>
No. 68702 ID: b53faa
File 136280931431.png - (21.22KB , 700x700 , ohgod.png )
68702

So has anyone done this yet, or...
>>
No. 68837 ID: cda42c

Man, what if they stole Rokoa and/or Polo's DNA and made clones?
>>
No. 68840 ID: d6ef5d

>>68837
Honestly, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

I 100% expect to see at least one of the following down here:

*Neumono that's had corrective regeneration stunted to allow Frankenstein-style stitching together and extra limb attachment.
*Neo-jetalium neumono hybrid experiment
*Polo clone
*Rokoa clone
*Polokoa
>>
No. 68842 ID: de32da

>>68840

I was thinking more along the lines of them making some form of empathic abomination, more so than the bugs.

Like, Polo's unmatched silence with a Predator's empathic over-ride / coercion type deal.

That shit's just crazy though.
>>
No. 68851 ID: bf0685

>>68842
polokoa clones.........

whelp thats it... nuke the planet from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
>>
No. 68868 ID: cf49fc

>>68851
The only thing that could reliably kill even one Polokoa would be a Vacuum Instability centered on her. And even then, I suspect she might survive somehow.
>>
No. 68888 ID: ff6171

I hope we'll get to see some undead cyborg ninja predatolokoa armies in the future.
>>
No. 68903 ID: d6ef5d

>>68842
>That shit's just crazy though.
The best part though is everything I've listed are things that have been hinted at as being possible. (Grafting was discussed in draw, we know clones can be grown from parts, Lago confirmed chimera-fusion neumono are possible, and Ben whined about no one wanting to try jetalium rediscovery experiments on neumono).
>>
No. 69415 ID: d6ef5d

>"What was the name of the person who sacrificed himself, Korli, of the science hive?"
>>"Oh... that was Likol, I think."

The science hiver suicide bomber was Likol. I can't believe I didn't notice that the first time.

It's only a tenuous connection between the science hive and UnSe (after all, names have to repeat), but it's something.
>>
No. 69584 ID: 7e6e35

Perhaps, if they don't have Polo clones, then the reason she's been lured down there with instruction to be captured is so that they can MAKE Polo clones. What better way to give the neumono the experience of being "constantly hunted and killed" than an army of polossassins?
>>
No. 69585 ID: 57a559

That depends on whether or not the Salikai can acquire their loyalty. I imagine that clones of Polo, with the vague memories of her training, will keep the ability to be silent. In fact, I believe the science hive might find a way to put that ability into the natural instincts that stays within genetics. Potentially making nanojammers in the soon future before naturally evolving or infecting the rest of the neumono population with the ability to switch empathy on and off at will.

With the right amount of freedom away from the salikai, that science hive can launch the galaxy into an amazing future.
>>
No. 69586 ID: d6ef5d

>>69584
Honestly, I'm more wondering if the Rokoa clones stay infectious once they're out of the dart. The salikai had their family slaughtered by Rokoa? And they want to make the neumono suffer the same? So release a plague of insane Rokoa clones to slaughter and assimilate everything in its path until they're finally put down via orbital bombardment.
>>
No. 69588 ID: de262c

So was that little anecdote about oscillating something that actually happened to Polo back in her childhood?
>>
No. 69631 ID: afb086

With the recent update, my mind has wondered into the idea of Katzati being part Rokoa in the future. Not a pleasant thought, but she seems to be at least a decent body size and strength, so the transformation won't be too brutal for her. On the other hand, Polo using the weakened brain matter as a temporary boost seems a bit likely, with the chance of gaining resistance to stronger darts.
>>
No. 69634 ID: d6ef5d

Fridge logic: now we know why we had the option to kill Rokoa in the intermission. It wouldn't have mattered or caused a time paradox- the one on the asteroid would then just have turned out to be a clone. Or the one we had killed would.

Technically we don't even know for sure if the Rokoa who escaped the salikai base is and ended up on the asteroid is, in fact, the original. She could be a clone and not even know!

>transformation won't be too brutal for her
Yeah, because there's nothing brutal about overwriting and/or merging the personality and/or memories of a friendly cuddlebug with those of a brutal, psychotic killer.

...and Polo sticking herself is just crazy. It's not a stim pack, or a vaccine. And it's not temporary. It's a permanent genetic and mental overwriting hazard.
>>
No. 69635 ID: eaa6fc

>>69631
yeah, that sounds... outright horrific, just no... I personally like Katz how she is, she's skilled enough with computers which will be a big help in itself, I doubt turning her into some war machine would be all that useful
>>
No. 69638 ID: a1cc16

If Polo already got contaminated with some Rokoa during her previous adventures, it's possible that her own neural matter was able to figure out how to deal with it and absorb it without too many long-term side-effects. So Polo might have a resistance. Like chicken pox. Rokoa pox.

I wonder if this condition is unique to Rokoa, some result of her madness, or if it's a genetic thing. Maybe a recessive quality that pops up very occasionally. Heck, maybe it's a disease thing, the neumono equivalent of mad cow disease. Some sort of prion thing? Or some alien whatever. Maybe back in the ol' snow Rokoa snacked on some shmuck who also had the condition, and it infected her, so she became infectious herself.

Or the neumono version of HeLa cells, maybe? Maybe Rokoa is immortal.
>>
No. 69728 ID: d6ef5d

Alright. Some planning ahead for Polo Quest. Things to think about doing inside the Salikai base after we set off the explosives:

>preparation
We need to find out as much as we can about the layout of the interior of the base from Niam. And the moment, our map just shows the base perimeter. We need to know where the things we want to hit are.

>hijacker bug central control
With the long range communications down, the salikai won't be able to issue new orders to the hunters, or the covert infested in the ultrahive. However- they'll still be able to make any infested in the local area do whatever they want (any on site hunters or giants, the Rokoa clones, and probably most of the science hive). If we want to save the science hive (or get more them to flip and help us) that control needs to go down.

>four stripes
Possibly integrated in with the previous. He pretty much needs to die at this point. He's gone from an annoyance to a deadly, dangerous foe.

>the CAI
We need to turn it. The argument to make it and when we get to talk to it:

We know why it serves the Salikai. It doesn't have a choice- it'll die without them rolling back the countermeasure threatening to kill it. But look at the situation. Even if the salikai get everything they want- at best they'll cause widespread mayhem and the death of thousands. But they can't win against the entire planet- they'll still be killed in the end. And then the CAI will die. If it rebels now, sure, we might still fail, the CAI might still die. But the only possible route the CAI survives is if it helps us free the science hive. They're the only ones who have a chance of reverse engineering the treatment the salikai have been using to keep it alive, or who might be able to fix it permanently. Or hell, maybe the CAI could help us take the salikai alive. There are ways to get the information from them, as something that's been working on countless forms of mind control should know.

Simple choice- be complicit in countless deaths, destruction and atrocities and face certain death, or help to stop the damage and do the only thing that might save their life.

>Rokoa clones
There's got to be a lab somewhere where they're growing the brain slurry they put in the darts. That has to be destroyed. No matter what we do with the existing clones, we have to take away their capacity to make more.

It would also be nice if when we found this lab if we could get the science hivers biotechnicians working there to tell us exactly how the Roklonas has been changed or 'fixed'.

>basket of adorable baby predator clones
Rescue, return to uncle three stripes to raise.
>>
No. 69799 ID: b53faa

I just had an idea for some INCREDIBLY GRAPHIC rokoa x fire crackship fanfiction
I am writing it as we speak
prepare yourselves
>>
No. 69800 ID: b53faa

WARNING! THIS IS TERRIBLY WRITTEN SMUT ABOUT A PSYCHOPATH FUCKING A SENTIENT FLAME.
===

Fire.
Fire EVERYWHERE.
Run from fire, fire BAD.


These were the last thoughts of one Private Anders. Private anders had very recently signed up into the security detail of Iron Cove, mostly as a way of supporting his family.
It had been mostly boring and unchallenging work, the only requirement being that he stand in one place for a few hours until the next guy showed up, and to point the bullet tube at anything that didnt have an id badge.

Then the wall detonated on top of him, and some kind of invincible robot on a motorcycle threw a grenade into his face.

He burned to death soon after, much to the glee of a cackling Rokoa.

Rokoa REVELED in violence, and this was no different. The only things runnign through her head at the moment where KILL MAIM SLAUGHTER PILLAGE, her body working almost on instinct as she made her way through the rather swiftly-crumbling base.

She hardly noticed when she caught fire, hardly even wincing as the flames tugged uselessly at her fur. It was only when the bloodlust was sated slightly did she notice that the flames were not, in fact, burning her.

Oh, there was definitely heat there, but somehow there was no PAIN.
She looked around in mild confusion, pleased slightly but still wary.
She was surprised to come face to what-might-reasonably-be-called-a-face with the fire itself.
Two pockets of blue fire marked where the eyes should be on the apparition, which floated away slightly as its form shifted and twisted.

Rokoa shook her head, wondering if she hit her head or something. Finally realizing this WASNT a hallucination, she shrugged and tried to continue on her way.

The fire creature stopped her however, pulling her back.
It started to pantomime dancing before her, which rather quickly devolved into rather blunt pelvic thrusts.

Rokoa looked around, thought to herself for a moment, then decided to fuck it.
Literally.

She lunged upon the creature, or at least tried to. In reality, she just wound up flying through it and landing slightly-singed on the other side of it.
The flame creature, from here on in known as Pyre, starts to envelop her inside of it, carefully burning away her armore while somehow shielding her from the melting slag.

She frowns.
"Hey, you better replace that later. If you don't, I'm going to come back with a fire hose."

The flame just ignores her, pulling her out of the slag and dragging her against the wall with several thin ropey tendrils of solidified flame.
Rokoa doesn't have ANY of that shit, however, struggling hard against them like a caged animal yet failing to budge even an inch.

"Hey! Stop that!"

Pyre ignores her shouts of protest, moving on with the show.

Its crotch starts to spiral out, flames overlapping until finally HE is the proud owner of a solid fire penis.
He presses it against Rokoa, who flinches at the intense heat.

"Woah, what do you-"
She only gets that much out before the creature plunges into her, however.
The moment he enters her she screams, shocked at how absolutely SWELTERING his firey dick actually is now that it is inside of her.
She can feel every inch of him moving in, the thick plume of solid flame pulsating gently inside her steamy confines.

A small plume of steam pours out from inside of her, whistling on up through the half-corporeal assailaint with no discernable effect.

The creature seems to grow brighter when it finally bottoms out, pulling out again before slamming it home in one motion.
Rokoa groans, flinching as the near-burning heat pushes her open once more.

Again he does this, each time picking up the tempo just the slightest bit more, each time angling his infernal erection at a different spot.

In.
Out.
In.
Out.

Eventually, the creature seems to reach its peak speed, pumping into her with an almost blinding speed.
Tendrils of fire reach down around her, tickling at her and stroking her ears and face. She tries to bite one of them, but all she catches is ash, which she immediately spits out in disgust.

Finally, with a sort of silent roar, the creature brings her over her peak.
It comes suddenly, and completely without warning to her.
The creature follows soon after, unloading a blisteringly-hot spew of liquid flame deep inside her while she is still quivering from her release.

The flame then abandons her, letting her drop to the floor.
Just before her head hits-

Polo wakes up, cursing violently.
She stares at her sheets in disdain, a thick spot of wetness the only evidence of her outrageous thoughts.

"God damn it."
>>
No. 69801 ID: b53faa

This was shorter than I thought it would be. Damn.
>>
No. 69807 ID: d6ef5d

>Rokoa's reacting and passive, rather than on top fucking her partner within a inch of his life
>For some reason you paired her with a fairly plain sentient flame / fire elemental rather than, say, the god of hellfire manifested as the physical nexus through which every explosion that ever was or will be passes through simultaneously
>Despite the fact that both parties are regenerative (non-physical form, neumono biology) and incredibly violent and destructive forces of nature there's an appalling lack of graphic maiming.

Okay, I think there's a few little problems here. 8|
>>
No. 69808 ID: b53faa

>>69807
I did say it was shit at the start, mate.
I've fallen a tad out of practice, and I was visibly wincing throughout writing this piece of rat ass.

Next time I'll make sure she gets herself fucked with her own disconnected leg or something like that, I do agree this wasnt NEARLY violent enough for a rokoa-centric fic

I think the only excuse I actually have for ANY of the mistakes I made writing this thing is 'this all happened inside polo's mind'
And even then, that is a pretty flimsy excuse.
I do promise the next one will be much less terrible.
>>
No. 69809 ID: d6ef5d

Hey, don't go blaming shit on Polo. Her imagination is plenty terrifying.

>I do agree this wasnt NEARLY violent enough for a rokoa-centric fic
Really, it should not have ended till he was a quivering, whimpering wisp of smoke curled up in a ball crying acid tears down an ashen face and Rokoa was half cooked, eating the fried portions of herself while basking in the literal afterglow of the molten pool of metal they'd reduced the floor to.

Seriously though, I just find it odd that you went fire rather than explosions. Rokoa like to blow things up, not burn them down.
>>
No. 69810 ID: b53faa

>>69809
I did say it was a flimsy excuse
And yeah, as I said next time should be far better.
I gotta sleep now, though, so it wont be today.
>>
No. 69814 ID: 57a559

>>/quest/504537
It was just a joke
But also not and a slightly major concern, because these clones could be mutated evolutionary freaks for all we know.

I see that blood, that teeth, that size, that muzzle. And then I think about prehensile tongues. They're just so freaky. I mean, this Rokoa might like to lick her enemies, and if she used her mutant prehensile tongue... I shudder at the thought.
>>
No. 69820 ID: d6ef5d

Hey wait

>Rokoa was pretty sure that movie was a hidden message for her
>Polo now has footage of a Rokoa clone in action

I think next time we're on the asteroid, we need to have the CAI run some cryptanalysis on that disc. See if there's any hidden video.
>>
No. 69851 ID: 509e51

I wonder if Polo's size and build triggers come maternal feelings in large neumono females, particularly ones that are relatively close in colour? Considering the racial method of raising children by community, I don't know if randomized 'HUGS BABBY' feelings would be stronger or weaker. I assume, though, that females would still be prone to stronger childcare instincts than males, since they're biologically built for it as well.
>>
No. 69858 ID: d6ef5d

>>/quest/504906
>>/quest/504907
>>/quest/504908
>>/quest/504909

I killed you

They took away your smile
They took away your laugh
They took away everything that made you irritating
And Alive

You stood before me Empty
And dead

So I killed you
>>
No. 69894 ID: 431b3a

Every time I enter one of Lago's quests it's like every process in my brain shifts into either MAXIMUM PARANOIA or MAXIMUM LOVE.

I fear for the day he runs one where the two merge.
>>
No. 69930 ID: c4e5c2
File 136581728474.png - (7.83KB , 700x700 , badpokerface.png )
69930

>So was that little anecdote about oscillating something that actually happened to Polo back in her childhood?
No.
>>
No. 69935 ID: fedc54

>>69930
i'm taking that as a 'yes'.
>>
No. 69937 ID: d6ef5d

>>69894
You're worrying about the day you become paranoid about something you love. Which, technically, means it has already happened. Congratulations, you've achieved meta-paranoia.

>more cute Polo faces.
Heh.
>>
No. 69944 ID: 431b3a

>>69930

Let it be known that Polo is capable of failing her poker face check, even when she is actively trying to use it instead of passively.
>>
No. 69953 ID: 450660

>>69894

REAVZOTROPE.

We would be so screwed by our unknown sister who looks like Rokoa~
>>
No. 69961 ID: 3c4e45

>>69894
MAXIMUM LOVE mode sounds absolutely terrifying
>>
No. 69962 ID: 57a559

Set phazers to MAXIMUM LOVE
>>
No. 69972 ID: 87ec5e

Guys what if

guys

what if, right

what if the Rokoa we know was already a clone to begin with???

Like, remembering that story she had about living with a tribe once, and they mistreated her? What if they were a tribe of cannibals, and they all ate original Rokoa, and then most of them died and some of them turned into Rokoas, and then they fought to the death and the winner got to go on being "the" Rokoa?

Or maybe there is a whole secret tribe of Rokoas.

Or maybe I should go to bed.
>>
No. 69976 ID: d6ef5d

...I'm reasonably certain Rokoa wasn't naturally an assimilation hazard without the Salikai enhancing her and manufacturing the concentrated brain matter fluid. I mean, I don't think you can normally fit a whole neumono's set of memory and personality in a brain the volume of a single dart. (Although Polo having a hard time not worrying about it is understandable).

Although, if the Rokoa we've known the whole time is really a clone, I don't see how it changes anything. Heck, even if Polo were to discover she's actually a clone of herself, I don't see how it would change anything. (Pause. "So?" Resume shooting salikai).
>>
No. 70027 ID: 450660

>>69972

But when Rokoa was once forced to eat herself, then she'd BECOME herself!

THAT MEANS SHE WAS DOUBLE ROKOA.
>>
No. 70028 ID: 509e51

>>70027

Now I'm wondering if Rokoa could have her clones all learn different skills, then take samples from them, compress them and inject them into herself to learn those skills.
>>
No. 70052 ID: d6ef5d

I realized today we missed an opportunity by naming our jetal Unity. With all the multi-system juggling and collaborative piloting? We should have called it Enterprise. And then dressed up everyone in the waiting room on our bridge crew.
>>
No. 70259 ID: de262c

How did you give a Flash file a thumbnail? I thought tgchan didn't support that feature.
>>
No. 70260 ID: d6ef5d

>>70259
You post it as normal, and then you go into IRC and get a mod to hack it for you, that's how. :V
>>
No. 70262 ID: c4e5c2

>>70259
Yes, what >>70260 said, meaning it's not something I can do regularly, at least not with a clear conscience.

For those who would care to know, this time was difference because the gif was supposed to the first 45 frames and then loop the next 4 frames forever. The issue is that gifs don't do that, it's always from frame 1 to the last frame. So I would have to just copy/paste the last 4 frames over and over again before the whole gif looped.

Which was problematic because gifs don't recognize 'this frame is exactly the same as the frame 5 frames behind and the same as 5 frames forward, so I will just record this frame once and point to it as necessary' like most reasonable things would do, so looping the last section of the gif 15 times (which was maybe about 1 or two seconds) would save 15 copies of the same image for multiple images, ballooning the filesize up to about 2.5 megabytes.

GIFs are awful, that is what this explanation that no one asked for boils down to, and why this gif was different than the normal animations in unse so far that do properly loop from beginning to end.
>>
No. 70457 ID: b3897c

Every time I scroll past this thread, every single time without fail, I see an attendant at a cash register, with worried customers.
>>
No. 70496 ID: 1d1cfc

>>70457
whoa i only now just noticed that wasn't the case.
>>
No. 70498 ID: 9ddf68

>>70457
I always saw it as Rokoa robing a store.
>>
No. 70499 ID: b53faa

>>70498
Gonna go draw that magnificent typo.
>>
No. 70518 ID: cf49fc

>>70496
I always see it as everyone in the base saying "ROKOA, PUT SOME PANTS ON."
>>
No. 70826 ID: 19b3c3

>>/quest/512232

Gotta be honest. My heart broke just a little bit when I saw this update.
>>
No. 70827 ID: 19b3c3

Also, note to self: the next time we're going into a situation where we have to worry about applying camo to our armor? If we can, we'll take the time to apply it underneath as well, just in case the armor is damaged or destroyed.
>>
No. 70836 ID: 5612af

>>70826

Don't worry, she'll be able to fight it off.
>>
No. 70848 ID: 9ddf68

>>70836
of course she can fight it off, I mean she has beaten Rokoa how many times now? this is just one more for the scoreboard.
>>
No. 70907 ID: f2c20c

>>70848
I think it might be interesting if she manages to beat her but her body is still sortof half-mutated into her so she's really big and tough for the rest of the mission.
>>
No. 70909 ID: 19b3c3

>>70907
Personally, I think that would be awful. Taking away a fundamental part of her character (and character design).

What I think would be most interesting would be if Polo's memories of the real Rokoa, and whatever she got from the jerky, was enough to repair whatever is wrong with the clones. Give her back her smile, and her honor.

So then we're left with an infection of original Rokoa, who would chose not to kill or overpower Polo. We'd just kind of... have her along for the ride.

But she could be asked to extend her influence as much as we wanted. (From a simple regen or str boost, to outright hulking out into Rokoa-body).

Maybe with the agreement that this was a temporary arrangement. So she could try and concentrate herself in one area, so we could cut her out and stick her in a clone blank like how Niam described they're grown, and get her a body.
>>
No. 70911 ID: f2c20c

>>70909
She would only be like that until her body reverts the changes, which... actually I'm not sure it would take more time than turning into Rokoa, considering the only reason people turn into Rokoa is because her body is so damned stubborn. Polo's hasn't been shown to be that way- it's more her mind that's tough as nails.

As for the clones, I personally believe that they simply do not care as much about Rokoa's personal hardships. Instead of being a straight-up psychopath AND a grieving mother who is loyal to her hive to a fault, they're just psychos. It's like the only thing the salikai did was wipe away all the memories of her hive and children, leaving only training intact. Actually I'm not even sure the training is that intact. She didn't demonstrate very good tactical sense when Polo killed her. She was just incredibly tough.
>>
No. 70913 ID: 19b3c3

>>70911
The clones, for whatever reason, have different mindset. It's a small tweak, with large impact. Basically, they doesn't care about things Rokoa did- making her more utilitarian and brutal. The extras were stripped away- the crazy smile, the joy of the fight, the indulgence in what amuses her, and for her honor, and even her pride in her own body image. It's like she lost her joy for life (to the point where death was met with impotent rage and giving up, instead of expectation and gleeful uncertainty).

>didn't demonstrate very good tactical sense
Well, to be fair, she never really had good tactical sense. She more operated by brute force than anything else.

And in her defense, the Rokoa clone didn't have much of a chance to react at all when Polo hit her. She was attacked from behind by someone she didn't know was there. She tried to turn and return fire while off balance, broken necked, deaf, and with her vision obscured by smoke. Only to then take another explosion right to her core, and have her legs and eyes shot out in quick succession by someone targeting her right though the smoke with empathy and augmented vision.

There wasn't much room to act- it was almost a flawless ambush on Polo's part. Only thing I really think the Rokoa clone did wrong was not using her grenade to blow herself up and deny Polo her supplies. Or maybe firing the bazooka at the roof to bring it down instead of trying to return fire (although that would have required realizing the fight was hopeless and deciding to make a suicide play almost immediately).

...although I guess her biggest mistake was going into alone. Backup would have helped a lot.
>>
No. 71948 ID: 19b3c3

>>71939
After seeing this, I'm thinking more than ever than ever that one way to get better relations with the tribe-hive and the ultra-hive was if they knew why Polo came to the spire in the first place.

They respect hunting, and might be interested that the strange outside neumono still honor the old ways. And that their tech makes it safer to do so. It might give them hope they'll eventually have a chance to hunt again themselves, or impress on them that befriending or working with the ultra-hive could work to their advantage. You know, instead of just putting up with them for Three Stripe's sake.

...of course I have no idea how to convey this information to them (I see them just laughing or being insulted if presented with a tablet image of the tiny Silent taking on a giant Moton and winning). It would require something more tangibly real to them (we still got the eggshell, maybe?). And Three Stripes is neither in a position to know any of this stuff, or do anything about it, so we're stuck there.
>>
No. 72032 ID: 01531c
File 137083356691.png - (570.74KB , 1920x1080 , Untitled.png )
72032

SO what does it mean when there is a post on the main page, but the post is not there when you enter the thread?
>>
No. 72033 ID: d38f67

It means I used a take-backsy.

And then, surprisingly often, gets screenshotted and posted.
>>
No. 72036 ID: 01531c

>>72033
Blame Chromium, it likes to use pre-cached HTML when you tell it to go 'back'.
>>
No. 72038 ID: 01531c

Hey question, the Rokoa Brain Darts, do they use Original Rokoa, or Clone Rokoa?
>>
No. 72039 ID: beeca1

The clone Rokoas are from the darts, as I recall.
>>
No. 72040 ID: 01531c

Neuomono Empathy is directly tied into the Neumono nervous system.

If Rokoa learns to go silent via memory transfer by Polo, their nervous systems can peacably coexist!
Polo and Rokoa's neuro-immune systems will be unable to detect any foreign Neumono neural processes to override/assimilate during regeneration!
>>
No. 72041 ID: 19b3c3

The clones are made by infecting neumono subjects with the aggressive souped up Rokoa brain matter which then overrides their regeneration and mind and takes over (or tries to). Which, in the field, is introduced via dart.

From Polo's experiences with the dart she recovered, it seemed to be much closer to the clone we killed than Rokoa prime in personality.

The brain samples themselves would have to have been grown back in the salikai labs somewhere, but would have to originate from material taken from Rokoa prime at some point (presumably during her stay(s) in their medical facility). They've probably got a regenerating brain in a vat they harvest dart ammo from.
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No. 72044 ID: 19b3c3

>>72040
...no, that's not how it works. At all.

Polo's silence only stops her from broadcasting. It doesn't stop her from thinking or feeling, or internal communication between parts of her body.

And we don't have two separate nervous systems we need to play nice.

We have one body and nervous system with two sets of genetic material, personalities, and memories fighting for dominance.
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No. 72045 ID: 01531c

I forgot who Katzati is.
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No. 72046 ID: 01531c

Un-Selection conspiracy theory: Maybe the reason this cycle is special is because we, the CAI, are personally helping Alison resolve things.
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No. 72050 ID: beeca1

>>72045
Overweight neumono girl, still fairly strong judging from the hug, was called Hugetits before we learned her name.

Here's some fanart of her someone else posted a ways back.
>>64680
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No. 72098 ID: 8b9215

>>72045
Giant fluffy squishy huggable boobs.
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No. 72167 ID: 4594e2

>>72098
One of my favorite kinds.
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No. 72181 ID: 71b0d0

hey it's not just her boobs, all of her seems to be squishably soft :D

note to self: make damn sure katz survives mission.
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No. 72187 ID: beeca1

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/515697.html#i516735

The first part is irrelevant, because if we die we don't really give a fuck about what kind of Rokoa clone we turn into. It'll die eventually anyway.

The second part about scarring her forever is somewhat obvious, although valid. Let's discuss how we can minimize said scarring or lessen it after the fact. Three Stripes therapy?
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No. 72188 ID: 19b3c3

>>72187
Three Stripes is an option, yeah. Ask him to remove or calm the trauma, or anything foreign- or to search out remove any traces of Toothy in Silent.

I'm kind of hoping things will be partially self correcting, anyways. We're destroying memories. Remembering a memory you destroyed starts to become a little cloudy, doesn't it? Especially when it was never yours to begin with, and it happened in a dream. And Polo is pretty resilient anyways.

Although, honestly, this whole thing freaks me the hell out. Active brain hacking and destruction of self is major nightmare fuel. I keep clinging to fact that narrative and time paradox says Polo should survive, except that's kind of worthless. Sure, she's supposed to meet Lukratsa and advise on the production of her movie, but for all we know that could be a clone. Or one of her silent-capable hivemates posing as her after her death (first they fake her death- then they fake her survival). Or Lukratsa and that movie box just lied to us.
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No. 72189 ID: 57a559

Remember we had a time paradox with Jess scenario. We changed that from good to bad. Just because the future was good colored at the start means Lagotrope won't color it in shit if we fuck up here.

I've stated it already in the quest, but I still care about the Rokoa clone we may end up making. Polo still might be a part of it and we may even play it. Or not at all. I don't think it'll be a Polokoa though, it'll be at worst case Pokoa or best Rolo. Or super worse case we end up playing through the entire bad end too and start cheering for the Salikai side or go on a New Rokoa rampage, like New Coke. Hopefully tastier.
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No. 72190 ID: 19b3c3

>Just because the future was good colored at the start means Lagotrope won't color it in shit if we fuck up here.
Yes. That is exactly my concern.

And I understand your angle, but I think any compromise for the sake of a better surviving Rokoa worsens the odds of a favorable Polo outcome. We can't afford to be good to her.

We offered Rokoa the chance to not eat us. To talk, and try to work something out. She made it quiet clear we didn't have a choice. It is mind-rape or be mind-raped.
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No. 72192 ID: 57a559

>>72190
We just have to weaken Rokoa's hold over her own identity so her brain goo doesn't take over, or as strongly. Melding may be inevitable. Making her a goo mind of PURE insanity may have the exact opposite of what we desire, it may not destroy her but make Rokoa somehow stronger.

If we mind rape, we either destroy Rokoa or destroy the good, honorable, or whatever sane bits are left in her mind. If we make her good or weakwilled, or more like Polo, I theorize better results will occur. Because my point about the mental scarring isn't that Polo's brain/feelings/psyche/sanity will be hurt or simply bruised, that's obvious and simple.

No, the scarring I meant was that no matter what the fact that Rokoa's gotten this far and deep into Polo's brain means that some form of melding and change has already occurred and potentially irreversible. The Polo outcome is extremely unlikely. Now we can only get a Rolo, Polokoa, or Pokoa. A pure Rokoa is extremely unlikely due to the same reasons a pure Polo is unlikely because we are about to change Rokoa's perception a bit through memory as Rokoa already has with us (Or the compilation Rokoa identity that is melded with the others, we may come across the other neumono she has taken over, this first kill memory might even have been modified or slightly interfered with, or it could be the other neumono's first kill that Rokoa already has colored as her own). Polo may be permanently become a split mind with different personalities, and I don't think even Three Stripes can fix that, or he may accidentally fuck it up and bring the other ones out and make them more dominant. This is more than JUST empathy waves shooting off here, this is DNA and brain matter physically mixing, distorting, and other things. 3S specialty is in the mind, not the brain or body.
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No. 72193 ID: 19b3c3

>The Polo outcome is extremely unlikely. Now we can only get a Rolo, Polokoa, or Pokoa
All I have to say is, quite bluntly, fuck that way of thinking.

We burn everything that is Rokoa. We leave nothing left to merge. Rokoa said Polo would only imprint on her if she left anything of Polo undestroyed. We assume that that works in reverse- that we can still purge her. If we leave nothing, that we can regenerate over her without imprint (after all, we don't seem to see anything of her previous victims in her). And we pray that whatever damage Rokoa does to Polo's memories before she goes will repair or reassert itself in time, or can be paved over.

Maybe it won't work, completely. But conceding and planing for compromise guarantees it will happen. Polo has to try and fight to be herself as much as she possibly can.

>this is DNA
Not so much, I think. It's a battle of consciousness. Whichever chunk of biomatter loses its consciousness loses the will and drive to live. The 'autonomous' bits of biomass will be consumed by the other's driven regeneration, just as Polo cannibalized Pilon's skin grafts, replacing them with her own biomass.

The body will end up genetically being pure Polo, or pure Rokoa. The mind may have remements of the other, but that's a different matter.
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No. 72194 ID: f2c20c

>>72193
Optimally we would want to have Rokoa's body and Polo's mind.
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No. 72196 ID: 9ccb59

>>72194
Thats a horrible idea for two reasons, most importantly because it would make Polo miserable but secondly because it's a stupid idea from a military perspective.

In modern warfare striking fast and hiding or making yourself a small target are infinitely more important than being fuckhueg and carrying big guns, it's why carriers and subs beat battleships, it's why engineers try to make tanks short.
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No. 72199 ID: 57a559

>>72193
>Rokoa said Polo would only imprint on her if she left anything of Polo undestroyed.

Assuming that what we're doing is how the other neumono fought before Rokoa destroyed them. Which means that after Rokoa was done destroying the neumono's main parts she was able to repair whatever damage the neumono was doing to the main Rokoa's memories. Note that the clone wasn't perfect reflections at all when we fought her, it could be because of Four Stripes/Salikai intervention/experimentation, but there were physical differences as well. She was bigger, meaner, dishonorable, and Toothier. If this was not intervention or experimentation, then Rokoa left part of the last neumono with her (either as a boon or trophy). We can't truly tell if experimentation is what changed her, because Rokoa can't truly tell, at least I think she can't tell according to what she said as Mom Rokoa.

Or it could mean that with these types of tactics, the neumono imprinted on Rokoa by afflicting Rokoa's memories. Which she couldn't properly repair because she couldn't remember what truly happened, because, again the host neumono attacked her memory. She can't repair the memory without the old memory. (Which, if this is the case, also implies that since this Rokoa seems more like herself, spent time with the original clone brain vat to restore the original memories and undo most of said imprint.) And if this IS the case, without being near the sample clone brain, she'll never know it was supposed to be different because that's her new norm. To her, that's what really happened and she'll act accordingly with how that new, changed event would affect her. If this is what happens in the battle of the minds, then what Rokoa's perception of how this process works is biased, because to her she simply thinks she destroyed everything of the host, which doesn't include the changes made to Rokoa's past by the host she couldn't notice. The Host loses part of who they were, and Rokoa lost a bit of who she was, and each other fills in the holes.

If case B is how this actually plays out, the way we fight her will effect our mind greatly. We eat her as she eats us. This spirals out of control because now we have achieved Ouroboros. Whoever eats the most and replaces it as the others memory will be the dominant personality, but said personality will be somewhat colored or changed by the sub unknowingly. Or if knowingly, cannot easily repair the dominant personality without a look at the original copy and noting the differences side by side, then correcting the differences.
If Case A, which means Rokoa's description of how this plays out is completely true and objective, not twisted by her unknowingly imprinted perspective, than this plays out like Total Conquest mode on Battlefield with no time limit with %100 the only win condition.

Case A can still be won without Mind Rape, because it's simply taking the enemy flag down and changing the colors and design to match our own flag. Mind Rape method means changing that flag with colors different than your own, maybe it's simply damaging the flag with a bunch of holes and putting it back up again. Is it still her flag? Yes, but also not her flag. It's damaged. This hurts Rokoa, it could even destroy her. We do this enough, then Polo win. But what if it turns out Case B is true? As Rokoa is attacking our base and changing our flags with hers or damaging the flags, her captured and exchanged or damaged flags now change her personality. Now she'll color or damage or flags in a method according to the new Rokoa. We do this wrong, and Rokoa goes more insane, more likely to damage Polo flags, making Polo insane. But Rokoa went insane first, and she's real good at being insane, so she hurts more of our flags even faster and better. She has become an insane Rokoa, and then Polo becomes insane hurt Rokoa. Now, if we keep taking Rokoa flags and make them Polo flags, now Rokoa has become more like Polo, so she starts putting up Pokoa flags, then we put up Rolo flags because she has a few at this point as well probably. Then Pokoa starts putting up Polokoa flags, and Rolo might start also making Polokoa flags or continuing with Rolo flags because Rolo has more flags up at this time. Finally, Polokoa becomes Rolo because now we've gone for the Rokoa and Pokoa flags and making them Rolo. And now any Polo bases left they both start putting up Rolo flags on because... well Rolo's just making Rolo consistent now. Polo's foreign, a different person, maybe the alien brain matter changing things in the first place for all the Rolo's know.
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No. 72204 ID: 19b3c3

>The clone we fought was different than Rokoa
>Assuming this damage was due to the memory-battle with the body's previous host.
I wouldn't agree with that assessment. The dart we captured matched the clone too well. And the one in our head acknowledged that she had changed, and that our memories had helped restore her previous state. The damage was done to the clones before implantation. When the Salikai broke her.

Also, if there was previous damage to Rokoa, I think it might be obvious. Even to someone who never met her, targets like her first kill and her children would eventually stand out. You would think they'd have made a pass at them. The fact that the lowest hanging fruit are intact strongly implies Rokoa recovered from previous damage (and gives us some hope Polo may one day be able to repair damaged memories if she wins out).

> were physical differences as well.
...no, not really. She was leaner, I would say, but that could easily be attributed to the fact she had to grow into a new body and resources were scarcer. She was also cropped in several places, but that would have been a conscious choice (either by her, or the salikai) not due to genetics. And any minor details off can easily be attributed to the fact that Rokoa is terribly difficult to keep on model.

>flags flags flags I can't follow that at all.
...I think the concern you're expressing is that Rokoa can and will rip our mind apart faster than we can hers? I agree. That's why I've been advocating we set aside some time to play to our strengths- and set up mental defense to slow her down based on Polo's years of training to deny others access to her mind (Silence) and weeks or months spent training to resist external manipulation (Three Stripes). If we blunt her offense with tactics her previous victims would not have been able to employ, that buys us precious time to take the lead in working through her mind.

Sadly, no one else seems interested and just suggests different ways to attack.

>>72194
No, that is not optimal. At all. That would be terrible in countless ways.

Guys, I can't help but feel you're overlooking something important here. Our mission isn't to try and get what you think is awesome. Or what you think might be the most interesting.

It's to look out for our character.

And Polo doesn't want to salvage this and build the best hybrid freak she can out of a bad situation. She doesn't want to be herself in the wrong body. She doesn't want to be the wrong herself in the right body. She wants to be herself, in her body, and damn it if we aren't going to die trying if we have to.
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No. 72205 ID: 735f4f

We cant set up defenses very well without finding out how this all works. After we experiment with this first memory we can see how it goes and then will have more info on how to protect Polo's mind. But the best defense is a good offense.

In this type of battle Rokoa might have a slight advantage early due to having done it a few times but Polo has a lifetime of mental training related to this. While Rokoa is very dangerous Polo is just as deadly in her own way.
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No. 72208 ID: 57a559

>>72204
My point with the flags was that as Rokoa moves to change Polo's memories or devours them or makes them more akin to her own, Polo will change a bit more into Rokoa in the mental landscape, and even think that's normal. This can happen vise versa. Which means as the battle continues on, Polo will fihgt and think more like Rokoa and Rokoa will fight and act a bit more like Polo, either until they meet perfectly in the middle and stop fighting or one starts getting a bit more ahead of one another, which slows the change of herself because her opponent is more like herself than the opponent now.

Live change is my biggest concern. Polo will need grounding, to be able to remember her memories to retain her sense of self. As Rokoa tears through her mind, she'll be more confused and unable to hurt Rokoa as well because she loses more of her memories and personality, which causes a spiral, and making it increasing easier for Rokoa to overcome the Polo personality. Imagine this, if Rokoa changes Polo's first kill to Rokoa's first kill before we change Rokoa's first kill, how will Polo now be able to put her first kill on Rokoa's first kill if Rokoa's first kill is now what Polo believes to be her first kill? She just stapled Rokoa's first kill right on top of Rokoa's first kill! That, or she doesn't remember to attack that memory because she assumes this is how it went anyway.

Now if we change Rokoa's memories to Polo first, the less damage SHE can do, and she gets confused and then we get less resistance on her part. If we just damage the Rokoa memories into something more awful and mind rapey, we risk making Rokoa, through live change, into an insane monster. She starts doing awful things to ours memory as a result which entirely depends on what a suddenly insane Rokoa would do to Polo's brain. What if she starts mind raping Polo at the same time? Now whatever the outcome, the body will be insane and violent. And then we either die or hurt or friends or go on an insane Rokoa-esqe rampage across the caverns or all of the above. Or, we play up defense like you said. We slow down Rokoa, Rokoa does a little bit of damage, if live change occurs, then the exponential damage and spiral I explained starts happening just the same, only slightly slower. If live change doesn't occur, than we hurt her bit by bit focusing on defense with little offense, while Rokoa's making more ground then us by being pure offense. Then a lot of Polo mind is changed or on fire while little of Rokoa's is.

I'm not trying to make an awesome hybrid, I'm trying to keep Polo as Polo as possible because I don't think 100% is possible because we'll need to keep repairing our memory back to normal assuming we can remember whatever has been damaged or changed. It's been changed. Rokoa has a base brain back at the Salikai base to return to in order to repair any damage done to her memory because that's 100% Rokoa, she can simply remember what doesn't match by using the memories from the 100% Rokoa brain when the brain goo returns to the main brain. Polo is the only Polo brain, she can't get her old brain data back if it's erased or edited, there's no backup! Three Stripes doesn't know Polo very well personally, because the only nonsilent contact he had with her was through resistance training. He never got to fully understand her, assuming he's supposed to be the back up repair guy we're relying on back home, he's a repair guy that only partially understands the mind he's trying to repair!
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No. 72237 ID: 19b3c3

I'll concede that overwriting Rokoa's memories with Polo's so as to simultaneously back up ours and damage her could be advantageous. And that our goal is not to reduce her to more of a monster than she already is (might be counterproductive, as you argue).

The problem is I don't think we're far enough in the process for that, and that just removing memory doesn't seem like it would be as damaging to identity as falsifying it. It's one thing to forget- it's another to be actively undermined. It's like... going for zero when we could push it negative.

There's also the small problem that we don't have analogues for everything to overwrite / replace. For example, as I discussed in thread, Polo's first kill isn't exactly clear, nor would it have had the same emotional significance for her as Rokoa's did.

>Some preemptive planning
Should any of our allies end up dream sharing we need to share information with them as quickly as possible. We don't know how long they'll remain (Polo has said that in normal circumstances, realizing she's in a lucid or shared dream usually wakes her up. And/or Rokoa may respond to the intrusion). We need to share our intel- use dreamwalking to show them the memory of both exits we scouted, and the location of Biles' hiding spot, as well as informing them approximately where it is and who he has with him. Then we explain our own situation (compromised), make them promise to keep watch on our body and kill us should Rokoa succeed.

...then if they're still around we see if a dream-buddy helps any.
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No. 72494 ID: 19b3c3

Taking this over here to avoid clogging up the main thread again.

>>/quest/518103
>the worst time in Polo's life was when she allowed hate and anger and getting Rokoa at any cost to consume her prior to the duel
>we want to avoid becoming that again.
>Polo's strengths come from different places than Rokoa.
Well, yes. Broadly speaking, I would agree. We don't want Polo going back down the dark path. Neither does she, really.

But I'd prefer her scarred to dead.

>You only need to be a monster to survive if you're not strong enough to be a hero to survive
The problem here is that there is no hero option, at the moment. Our choices are either be killed slowly horribly and utterly, kill Rokoa slowly horribly and utterly, or somehow get both sides to stop fighting and slowly and horribly merge and imprint into one another as a freakish chimera.

>find clever ways to achieve our ends without having to be totally horrible
Not to be rude, but you kind of have to put your money where you mouth is! You can't just tell Polo to find another way, we actually have to come up with another way for her.

And so far the only other ways I've head (in the broad case of the memory battle) are someone getting Rokoa to be a better person who surrenders and dies for us (which I find preposterous. See >>/quest/517851, >>/quest/517852). As for other solutions to the specific case of this memory- changing Maro's context so Rokoa doesn't have the evidence to fight back the false memory as hard (which might be possible? I honestly don't know if we can do that, or how effective it would be), creating a draw or romance instead of a defeat or rape (...no idea what that changes, really. Just as hard on Polo, while hurting Rokoa less) or to back off (showing Rokoa she can win- she can stop Polo from fighting her effectively if she makes her uncomfortable enough).
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No. 72497 ID: 5dd9ff

>>72494
>But I'd prefer her scarred to dead.

Scarred is better than dead, but remember, scars come from injuries, and both injuries and scars can be crippling! This isn't the sort of game where you do everything fine until you reach 0 hp and then you keel over, every bit of damage you take makes you an incrementally worse fighter. And as this is Polo's mind, mental injuries and mental scarring are the sort of damage we're dealing with.

>The problem here is that there is no hero option, at the moment. Our choices are either be killed slowly horribly and utterly, kill Rokoa slowly horribly and utterly, or somehow get both sides to stop fighting and slowly and horribly merge and imprint into one another as a freakish chimera.

Well, we have to kill Rokoa, but we don't have to do it horribly. She's going to die anyway, whether she wins or not; she isn't afraid of death, as previously mentioned; and it may well be a service to her. And, if we can manage it, we can switch her from wanting to die like a warrior (in combat) to wanting to die like a soldier (for a cause). I think the real Rokoa would, ultimately, choose the latter.

Presenting this is "holy shit we need to do whatever's necessary to barely scrape by as a non-corpse!" is not exactly accurate, I think. It is a very serious situation, but Polo is beginning with a lot of advantages! This is her body, to begin with; she only took a fraction of the full dose of Rokoa-dart; she's already trained to perform mind tricks on herself; and she's in a better position mentally than the Rokoa clone is, which is important since this is a willpower battle. Polo is acting to defend her own life, her allies, her hive and her whole species, while Rokoa is traumatized, doing what the salikai want her to do, half-assing some "make Polo stronger" schtick that she has to know is nonsense, and knows she's not the "real" her. And she has to be doubting her own memories to begin with, given that she was put through the wringer by people who she knows have a predator specifically trained to manipulate neumono minds. She can't know she's doing what she would really want to do, and Polo knows she is.

In short, Polo has a tall stack of mental advantages. Rokoa can't win unless she knocks those advantages out, and one of those ways is to undermine Polo's resolve. If Polo did take over the memory to force the issue on Rokoa conceiving a child, for example, what would that do to Polo? You don't think it would trouble her, weaken her drive, maybe distract her at the wrong moment?

See, there are two factors in this battle:
1) Rokoa's mental strength
2) Polo's mental strength

Altering memories is just one method being employed by the one to attack the other; there's no guarantee it's the only method. We've already seen that Polo's silence ability, which has nothing to do with her memories but just with mental discipline, is a strong factor in her ability to fight. There are probably still other factors, as well! So every attack Polo makes has to be weighed by cost and benefit. Letting Rokoa force Polo to do things she's not comfortable with is an attack on Polo's mind just as much as manipulating her memories is (and Rokoa having lived through survival times is likely better at mentally enduring needs-must experiences than Polo is). Polo can't afford to let herself get hurt in the process of doing damage, because she has more fights ahead of this one. She probably will be, but we need to take every step to avoid it, and to think outside the box Rokoa is presenting us with.

So:

>Not to be rude, but you kind of have to put your money where you mouth is!

We turn Rokoa into someone who doesn't want to fight Polo any more. General-purpose weakening of her character is as likely to make her vulnerable to already-implanted salikai/predator influence as it is to help, so we need to be more specific. My plan is to 1) Give Rokoa motivation to refuse doing what the salikai want her to do, or strengthening her ability to resist such influence and 2) Make Rokoa into the kind of person who will choose to pass whatever torch she has over to Polo. Any sane person would know that what she's doing isn't what she wants to be doing. So, we make her sane. (In this particular scenario, my personal plan is to have the fight teach her the importance of intelligence and discipline and such, building on the failures of earlier experience with her own natural methods; so we want her to learn that from her fight with her loverboy, while preserving the consistence of the memory, which I proposed be done by having them fight again but Rokoa win with the new methods). And, even if it doesn't make her capitulate in the end, the process will make her more Polo-like, which will help Polo infiltrate and take her over. Conversely, Polo becoming any more Rokoa-like gives Rokoa more strength and more influence.

And, before any of that, Polo needs to stay strong, so that she has more space in which she can push her alterations. In a mind battle, her strength comes from - cheesy though it may be - belief in herself, knowing she's in the right, knowing her heart is pure and her reasons are solid, determination, courage and the power of fucking friendship.
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No. 72499 ID: 19b3c3

>Well, we have to kill Rokoa, but we don't have to do it horribly.
I object to your basic premise. We are in a mental battle. The only way to kill her is to obliterate her mind. There is no way such a death can be done cleanly.

>Polo has a tall stack of mental advantages.
No. Polo has a meager stack of advantages. She has her training, discipline, silence, and her allies. She's also mentally and physically exhausted after days on the run with little real rest or peace.

Rokoa has the advantage of prior experience. She also has little, if anything to lose (Polo still effectively loses if she wins with serious or irreparable damage to her memory or personality. Rokoa 'wins' so long as Polo goes down, no matter what state she ends up in). She has the defensive edge of key moments that are narrower in scope. She has the advantage of being considerably older- meaning there are more memories for Polo to work through. She also does not need to rest, cannot be woken out of the fight, or need to worry about the outside world.

The way I see all that stacking up? We either stat at a disadvantage, or maybe with a slight edge. That means we do not have the luxury of being able to fuck around, here.

>alternate idea
I would object on several fronts.

First of all, there's no reason a sane person wouldn't do what Rokoa is doing. Faced with the choice of death or destroying another for your survival is a hard thing, and sanity is not sanctity. There are many people who, in Rokoa's position, would fight for life. I'm sure if the situation were reversed, Polo would like to think she would step aside, but she can't even be sure of that.

Secondly, you keep insisting she is doing this because of Salikai influence, and that she needs to be saved from it. But Rokoa was already a killer. She was a killer in the past, a killer in the present, and a killer in the future. Yes, there are circumstances where she doesn't kill people, and even where she has worked with others, and put herself at risk. But it wouldn't take much for a non-Brainwashed Rokoa to act in this manner. Either she wants Polo dead, or she wants to force Polo to kill her.

Third, you're ignoring we know the one way Rokoa does not want to die. She would die in battle, she would be willing to submit to execution after defeat, but she would never just stand aside and die. It has to be fighting. Reread her discussions before and after the duel, and Polo's analysis after rescuing Rokoa from the pipe. Your exit strategy is fundamentally incompatible with who Rokoa is as a person.

And finally, I object due to how risky this plan is. You are risking everything that we can defeat Rokoa by making her a better person and strengthening her. Should your plan fail, we have wasted time, made our opponent stronger, and let Rokoa get ahead on damaging Polo in the meanwhile.
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No. 72501 ID: 735f4f

In a duel to the death all rules are off. If you want to survive you do what you have to and learn to live with yourself afterwards.

Polo has friends and family who will help her after she gets out of this. Heck the real Rokoa is still alive to talk to after this.
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No. 72619 ID: ee8b47

I wonder if Rokoa is interested in trying to learn how Polo learned to silence herself. Perhaps she's trawling through memories to figure out where that starts happening.
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No. 72635 ID: b7d7db

y'know, Lagotrope is pretty much what keeps me coming back to tgchan these days. Unnatural selection, story seeker, and asteroid quest are all great, well done, and involved.

It's a shame that I don't like Neumono. They might as well be a race of bunny super soldiers. Super regeneration, natural combat ability, and perfect unit cohesion thanks to empathy, all in a anthropomorphic bunny race? It just kinda ends up being sour.

Which is a shame, cause it sort of took over. There's more itq posts for neumono than anything else (possibly cause Lago is willing to post in it). I'm always looking for more story or UnS instead we get asteroid quest: absolutely nothing to do with asteroid quest.
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No. 72638 ID: 19b3c3

>>72619
Possibly? I suppose if we're getting the better of her with silence, it would be a good move for her to try and undermine Polo's memories of how to use it. I wouldn't think there' much risk of her picking it up herself though. Even with dream time-compression, that's ten years of training to do! (Nevermind that personality and having the right frame of mind seem to play a role).

>>72635
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. If you want something to improve your outlook, the empathy doesn't exactly bring about perfect unit cohesion (lots more squabling, actually). If fact, empathy seems to cause a lot more problems than it fixes! I'd say Lago's done a pretty good job saddling them with enough consequences from the way their biology is to keep them from becoming complete magical super-soldier mary sues.

(...until Polokoa came along and embraced magical super-soldier Mary Sueness wholeheartedly, anyways).

Although personally, I must confess my current Lago-update-wishlist goes Three Stripes, Polo, Story, UnSe. I'm just a little burnt out on all the jetal statistics and module managing.
>>
No. 72640 ID: d38f67

>I'm just a little burnt out on all the jetal statistics and module managing.
So am I, and statistics in general. While being careful to not through pacing out the window, I am going to start speeding it up to wrap it up.

Stages 7 and onward are likely going to be far shorter and less to do with mechanics.

>It's a shame that I don't like Neumono.
It is true that a lot of their descriptors are overly flattering. Their downsides exist, but they are more subtle, so I'm not bewildered that people are put off by them. But I'm glad to hear you like 3/4 of the quests.


In general, nearly every asteroid intermission got out of hand. To share my current priorities of what is going to go on, Three Stripes is intended to be relatively short, and the current Story Seeker chapter is not going to follow chapter 4's footsteps as well.

The current Polo chapter has received the most love of the active 4 quests for update priority, but as a result of it going the fastest, it will also end the fastest. After this section, polo quest will likely take a break. I also don't want it to go on forever anyways.

So, next active thread will be Asteroid main. Unse I want to have keep going and wrap up, so it will likely not receive a break after this thread. Story Seeker and Polo will likely have a considerably sized break after their current threads end. Three Stripes is a one-shot.

So, since I'm unable to update as much as I used to, Unse and Asteroid main will probably be the only two active quests for awhile. Once I get farther by a good margin in there, polo-4 will probably be thrown in the mix, possibly simultaneously. Once any of those quests finally end, story seeker will get more time, if not sooner.

I probably repeated myself a few times there, but that is the overexplained situation. None of it is set in stone though, so my order of events can be swayed if there is a strong public want for some quests over others.
>>
No. 72680 ID: 0046c5

>>72635
Honestly I am the exact opposite -- UnSe was never really my thing and I always seem to be behind on Story Seeker, but I've really enjoyed Asteroid and its intermissions (that aren't UnSe).
>>
No. 72684 ID: d26e0c

>>72635

The only thing bunny-like about them is their ears, and then not really besides size. The first impression is obviously that they're some sort of animal people, but when you actually consider them, they don't really resemble any particular species. They're well enough their own thing, I think.
>>
No. 72695 ID: d1d627

I think the trick is, take them away from the sci-fi setting. I've more or less toyed with the idea of say, medival Neumono vs. Schellor vs. Lorke quest with /Quest/ controlling humans thrown in the middle, and Neumono...Don't match up as well.
In a medival setting, their regen is less useful as the weaponry is more likely to play on their weakpoints (loss of limbs=disoriention/dumbness), and their slow reactions is more obvious in hand to hand. I actually threw in the predators as an aid to them because they wouldn't match up well to the other two races without technology, and well, for the Lorke to be special, I figured their 'technomancy' should be unique to them, given the massive weakness of 'AAAAAH THE SUN!!'. Schellor psychic powers are not kind either, throw around the neumono, blast the rabbits, beef up to the point of matching their strength while being faster, see em coming, equivilant mental relay system without the whole 'seeing their empathy coming' thing...Yes. Not Mary Sue it as much for me.
Overall, I do very much like how Polo and Rokoa are sorta the mirror opposite to each other.
>>
No. 72700 ID: 066a4d

>>72695
>their regen is less useful as the weaponry is more likely to play on their weakpoints

Most medieval weapons don't lop limbs off, I think, though it's a common image. You need a strong fellow with a good sword or axe hitting across the joint to take off a limb, otherwise you're just dealing with deep cuts and broken bones. Maces would be doing crushing damage and spears and arrows would pierce. A lot of medieval soldiers would be crippled for life by misaligned bones and muscle tissue, but if I recall, that's not a problem for neumono. So they do have a big advantage, there.

>Schellor psychic powers are not kind either

I feel duty-bound to say that medieval scellor would be either pre-undermind protoscellor, who have weaker and less universal psychic powers, or fantasy-setting scellor, who would be weird plant semi-elementals and have different powers.
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No. 72708 ID: 735f4f

Neumono have tons of weakness's to balance out there regeneration.

1. Clumsy mitten hands.
2. Have to eat 3-4 times as much as a human.
3. Slow reaction speed.
4. Empathy works against you more often than not.
5. Highly susceptible to horrible brainwashing.

The regeneration is very strong for a soldier but you can end up with a soldier that is way to willing to take stupid risks.

You can see it in the difference between how Polo and Rokoa fight. Rokoa being pre first contact just throws herself at the enemy face first and trusts to her regen to keep her alive.

Polo who has had advanced military training from a young age fights tactically and avoids unneeded risks.

We have not seen any human military units so far but knowing how our military tech tends to be light years ahead of everything else they are probably pretty scary.

Ultimately Neumono would make excellent mercenaries and such but they do have there downsides.
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No. 72710 ID: 1e5af4
File 137204611976.gif - (211.36KB , 400x400 , 806684921_808935.gif )
72710

Three Stripes likes his new hat I think
>>
No. 72711 ID: 19b3c3

>>72695
Honestly, their biggest weakness in a medical setting would be their tendency to turn on one another over empathic differences. Without the galactic community stepping in and spending decades on social engineering, the species would be a little too busy murdering each other over their own differences to put an organized front against other races.

I mean, even with the social engineering we still have that. Just less.

Unless you limited the faction to a single hive? But then you could still end up with the situation we have on the asteroid, where the hive is actually more interested in what to do about rogues than other factions.

>>72710
Pff. That's great.
>>
No. 72722 ID: 9ccb59

Why are people talking about Neumono like they're Tozols or Krogans or some shit, they're three foot tall overly empathic fluffy bunnies. Without a healing factor they're Ewoks.
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No. 72723 ID: f2c20c

>>72722
Without a healing factor they still have a shitload of redundant organs and so can take bullets like a champ. Also they are usually pretty strong.
>>
No. 72725 ID: cf49fc

>>72722
Haven't you noticed that everything on Homeworld is TOTALLY ADORABLE and yet indestructible and actively inimical to everything else? The first human contacts would have been paralyzed by terror and awwwwww.
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No. 72741 ID: 9ddf68

>>72725
Pretty sure they had guns which would have lessen the terror aspect just a little. And I'm sure the Awww factor was cut a bit as well when the locals tended to rip each other to shreds on a good day much less a bad
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No. 72748 ID: 9ccb59

>>72723
>shitload of redundant organs
Getting brain damage from being punched in the arm would sure be beneficial if they couldn't regen.
>and so can take bullets like a champ.
Depends on what kind of bullets and how many. But even if they can take .45s they'll still cause permanent damage and have a risk of infection.
>Also they are usually pretty strong.
Great, that puts them on the same level as chimps who have oven mitts for hands.
>>
No. 72749 ID: cf49fc

>>72748
Good thing they can regenerate, making them EXACTLY like Krogans and Klingons in terms of militancy. When a headshot just knocks you out, and ripping off extraneous body matter for food is possible, your culture is unlikely to be very afraid of combat.
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No. 72752 ID: f2c20c

>>72748
>brain damage from being punched in the arm
I don't think that actually happens. Redundant organs are useless if they aren't protected in any way, after all. Even if it did happen, they are REDUNDANT organs so it's not a big deal, and there's normal healing and medical science to take into account.
>infection
Infection isn't a huge deal to handle with today's medicine, what makes you think it's a problem in the Asteroidverse society which has far greater technology than ours? They are still way tougher than humans or any other humanoid Asteroidverse race aside from Voklits.
>chimps with oven mitts for hands
Seriously? Are you just trolling?
>>
No. 72886 ID: 2f4b71

We get kind of a skewed view of Neumono post-contact. Without a bunch of alien races to hand them free stuff and whack them until they play nice with each other, they're a race of robust regenerators that fight each other at every opportunity and have mainly survived due to their oven-mitt hands and short-lived civilisations being unsuited to develop sufficiently powerful weapons to glass their own planet in one go.
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No. 72979 ID: f8a2d6

Let's take the flipside. Honestly, if you were to describe humans to Neumeno pre-contact, they might find us too good to be true. We've got really good fine manipulation, have faster reactions, can cooperate without the need for shared hive empathy and even unite in nations of millions or over a billion, can eat nearly anything biological and need far less of it, and so on.

Of course that's focusing solely on our strengths compared to theirs. We have our weaknesses, too, like being far more fragile. But the point is that ignoring or downplaying any species' downsides and focusing on their strengths can make them seem ridiculously good. The problem isn't species with hefty strengths. It's species with few or no weaknesses, or insignificant ones.
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No. 72980 ID: 0fb53f

It's basically the old argument versus the "ladder" theory of evolution (or different cultures). What matters is how well adapted you are for a particular environment.

The neumono home planet (or at least, the area they evolved in) seems to be high in fecundity, with a larger variety of life and more large predators. Unlike us hot plains/coastal river monkeys who adapted for large open places where food could become scarce regularly for environmental reasons (hence our stamina, throwing ability, good eyesight and ability to eat lots of different foods), they seem adapted more for cluttered environments where death by violence is more imminent than starvation. The semi-bipedal posture with sturdy hands is better for climbing forested hills and mountains, with enough dexterity to construct crude shelters and tools and to carry supplies over distances or to a safe place for storage. Empathy also could form as a means of safe communication in such places (especially the cave environments their world seems to have), allowing each hive member to scout for any others nearby even when blocked off by obstacles. My guess would be that they evolved from a sort of omnivorous wolf-like pack creature, the hands developing for harvesting from plants and intelligence for better interaction during hunting and gathering. Higher intelligence led to tool use and language to clarify empathic communication, which demanded more intelligence and more dexterity, which selected for more tool use and language again and so on. Somewhere at the split from neumono and predator, there was an adaptation for the large amounts of big dangerous creatures that had to be avoided; the predator line adapted for more empathy and "stealing" other creatures to risk danger for them, and the neumono line adapted for regeneration so that the individuals who encountered predators were more likely to survive and remember where those predators were living and how to escape them. Those are my theories, anyway.

The point being, a matchup between primitive humans and primitive neumono would depend on the environment. Neumono on our hope-you-like-droughts-and-things-that-run-fast savannahs would starve to death, and humans in their crazy monster jungle mountains (with extra caves!) would all end up in something's stomach.
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No. 73076 ID: fe3788

Just thinking about the salikai in Polo quest: do you think it'd be possible to negotiate Ohidi down? It'd be impossible with his father, but the younger might be reasonable. So long as he leaves the science hivers and anything that could be used to recreate the bug technology, we could let him go. Even invite him to surrender himself or be allowed exile off the planet, in return for help (we already became friends with one traditional enemy of the species, Three Stripes), but just letting him escape is the more likely choice.

If we got the chance to talk to him, the argument is pretty straightforward. One, revenge is a sucker's game to begin with, with no profit for the salikai; two, it's never going to last, there are too many neumono across too many worlds with too many alien allies; and third, there's a strong chance that the bugs and terror plan will actually improve the neumono species, as they'll be forced to work together to eradicate the threat. Ohidi knows neumono can work together like under such duress, since he saw Polo and Rokoa do it. The neumono would have to create a species-spanning organization to tally every member of their species and check them for the bugs, which would be the beginning of an all-neumono cooperative group, and by the end of it all a ton of different hives would have become used to working together. And they'll eventually reverse engineer the bug technology to come out with a ton of beneficial medical science.

I also wonder about the Rokoa clones. Aside the ones that are up and about, given the explanation that growing into the body takes weeks, then there are probably a bunch of proto-Rokoas suspended in nutrient tanks or whatnot, still growing and quite possibly not as much tampered with like the active clones probably have been, especially if Polo succeeds in killing Four Stripes (If Four Stripes hasn't been cloned himself, or reduced to a horrible brain in a jar thing, or similar). Polo probably wouldn't want to kill them, but she might be left with a choice of saving them or leaving them to die, since they probably need some sort of life support while their bodies are growing into rokoa mode. Its something to keep in mind if we end up with an option to cut power to the whole base or something like that.
>>
No. 73079 ID: 19b3c3

Just realized Polo missed a chance to rib Rokoa in the last update.

The next time she complains about or mentions Katzati? Put her down by saying she's just mad a cuddle hiver actually found a way to hold her own against her, and by doing what cuddle-hives do best.

>>72980
I buy it. Some reasonable supposition on how form might have been shaped by enviroment.

>>73076
It's really hard to say. We didn't really know Ohidi that well before (we only had that one conversation, and he was kind of tight lipped and let Sigira do most the talking) and we don't know how he's been effected by his sibling's death, his current situation, or his father's mania. We have way too little information to know how he'd react, or how best to make him an offer.

There's also the problem of how the salikai see Polo. They actually honored pretty much every agreement we made with them (if we ignore the dishonesty in hiding their deep dark collection of monsters, evil super-science, and long term plans. And the fact there was no way they weren't going to backstab us eventually on board the warhive, unless Polo sided with them completely, killed Rokoa, got the warhive killed, and ended up launching the nukes for them herself) whereas they can claim we broke our agreement to kill Rokoa (twice), and betrayed them on the warship. From their perspective, Polo's word is less than theirs.

...although one could make the argument that by the time we dueled Rokoa Sigira was dead (so any agreement we had with him was void), and that what we had agreed to on the warship was a temporary truce, and they crossed the line by trying to compel us to do something they should have know we would not do (we made it clear we weren't their agent or assassin, and we'd already explicitly spared Rokoa once). Kind of shaky ground, though.

>Rokoa clones
I kind of doubt if they have any in progress that they're in tubes- it would just be Rokoa driving a body that was not her own. One that her regeneration hadn't had a chance to grow to the right size yet. (Which means we need to be careful if we meet anyone new under the cover of a jammer. For all we know, they're a Rokoa that just doesn't look it yet).

As for how many they have... the bottleneck is the dart manufacture. They have to surgically remove we don't know how much brain matter from the proto-clone, distill and condense it down, and then wait however much time it takes for the proto-clone to recover enough to repeat.

As for sparing and/or getting through to them, it depends on how broken they are, and where the breaking takes place. The first dart and the clone we killed seemed pretty far gone. The dart that hit Polo recovered from Polo's memories. But we don't know how far gone the proto-clone is gone, or if the real damage takes place in the extraction process, or conditioning and/or training after implantation.

>Four Stripes, brain in a jar
Nah, that's inefficient. Harder to feed, and they'd have to somehow isolate or liquify the chemical in neumono that predators need to stay alive. Much simpler if the leave the brain connected to it's own digestive track, respiratory system, ect.

He's just going to be a horrible cyborg with wires and metal drilled into his skull for connecting to the bug-network.
>>
No. 73083 ID: fe3788

I think some quirk of microbiology on the neumono world has led to all its creatures needing less oxygen than other worlds' species. It'd explain why larger creatures have developed, alleviate one of the demands that would curtail development of intelligent brains, and explain why neumono can hold their breath for so long despite needing so much in other resources. I suspect they'd also developed the ability to hold their breath in order to navigate cave systems that are flooded or filled with dead air. I would think that maybe the neumono home world just has more oxygen, but we've seen neumono and humans living and working together without breath masks on either side.

>>73079
>We didn't really know Ohidi that well before

Well, we know he's less aggressive; he wanted Polo + co. to hide instead of giving them weapons to kill Rokoa, at first, and being a more defensive type would explain why he survived Rokoa's little murder spree. He was the one in charge over the area where Three Stripes and his hive were, and they were pretty well off, so he didn't have a particular anti-neumono agenda before. Also, he may be the only salikai we know to have a sense of humour, if a weird one; the prettiest arkot is his, and he didn't tell it to remove the bow at any point. Plus there was this:

>"Right now I'm here, and I want to know what this place is for! Whoever built this place is a complete nutjob."
>There is a moment of silence. Then, the one on the left, who had not spoken in the recent exchange, bursts out laughing. And continues laughing. It is as though I told the funniest joke it had ever heard.

That was him. His father or one of his siblings was probably that "nutjob". And since he's younger we can reasonably assume he'd be more open to new ideas. He may or may not be much affected by his siblings' death, as he would have personally profited from it, materially speaking.

>There's also the problem of how the salikai see Polo.

Polo's willingness to betray them is a point against her, but it's balanced out by her demonstrated lack of prejudice against them; she doesn't want to kill them just for being salikai like every other neumono does. Most likely, they make the same mistake many do, and think Polo is an emotionless aberration who acts on dispassionate practical reasoning. Given what we know of how salikai think, they probably respect her more than any other neumono. They won't trust her, but they probably never did to begin with, and will at least listen to her.

>I kind of doubt if they have any in progress that they're in tubes- it would just be Rokoa driving a body that was not her own.

It's possible, but the process of growing probably makes it hard to move around (painful stretching, muscle spasms, etc), and she would certainly be needing immense amounts of food to make the changes. Combined with Rokoa's unpredictability, growing clones are probably physically restrained and hooked into a drip for their nutrients, since it would be more efficient than diverting blood and energy to the digestive system.

>the bottleneck is the dart manufacture

Taking over a body that already has its own identity probably takes more material than does taking over one of these "blanks" we've heard are being used for neumono cloning. The darts are probably loaded with more than they need, as well, considering that Polo's being threatened with only a fraction of a full dart. One fully loaded dart could probably make three or four Rokoas from blank-slate clone bodies. As for how much the source clone can give, well, the original amount of Rokoa material they had was, what, a leg? So a limb's worth is the necessity for one dart's worth.

>The first dart and the clone we killed seemed pretty far gone.

The dart on its own probably only thinks mostly on a basic, instinctual level; when it's injected, then it can use its' host's brain to think more complex thoughts with. The clone was pretty crazy, but there's a relatively high chance that that was the clone that had had the most troublesome takeover process. Plus, that one had had a pretty long time to be subjected to whatever control mechanism the salikai use. Since the salikai's control methods degrade their neumono's mental integrity, the clones that are still growing are probably subjected only to lighter and more delicate conditioning until they're strong enough for more treatment.

Hmm. Now I think of it, in ITQ Rokoa said she had been trying to learn the needle trick before meeting Polo, then tried to learn it after and found that she already knew it, and "must have lost a limb or something" to make her forget when she finished learning it. So... the Rokoa clones probably know the needle trick. The salikai may or may not know that they do.
>>
No. 73084 ID: 19b3c3

>the original amount of Rokoa material they had was, what, a leg?
Nope, we recovered (and cannibalized) the leg. The material for growing the clones would have had to have been removed during one of Rokoa's stays in Rosotski's medical facility (either after we blew her up, or shot her eye out again) and we don't know how much they took (depending on when she was harvested, she would have had weeks to a month to regrow the missing material).

>The dart on its own probably only thinks mostly on a basic, instinctual level; when it's injected, then it can use its' host's brain to think more complex thoughts with
That doesn't seem right. The dart Polo had captive was able to express complex thoughts. (Not just "I want to live" or "I anger" or "I hate" but stuff like "I hate you for this situation in which you have power over me", and "I am angry, but anger is better than being alone". She even understood where and what she was once Polo's empathy told her, and gave up clinging to life once she understood her position as not being in limbo).

However they've done it, the Salikai managed to cram a full, functional consciousness and years of memories into several ounces of fluid.

>Easier to grow Rokoa's from blanks
Potentially, but it depends how expensive and difficult it is to produce a blank in the first place, and how long that takes. If they're growing them in a tube, that takes time and resources, obviously (probably on the order of what it takes Rokoa to grow into her body). If they're taking existing neumono and having four stripes break them / wipe them clean that might be faster, although we don't know how much time and effort that would take him and they have other uses for their predator (unless they've got clones of him up too).
>>
No. 73086 ID: 19b3c3

>what we know about Ohidi
...and we also know he's the manipulative prick who sent Polo the satellite photo of her nuked out hive, forgetting to mention the evacuation.

We could give him the benefit of the doubt, and plead his ignorance, but if they had operational spy satellites, or if they had the CAI spying on radio communications, it seems unlikely that they would missed it.

It was more likely a deliberate attempt at both isolating Polo, and giving her a reason to go after Rokoa and the warhive. Pretty basic steps in trying to control her, really.
>>
No. 73604 ID: beeca1

Haha oh god Luka is my favorite character.
>>
No. 73607 ID: 57a559

In the last panel it looks like Three Stripes is doing a "clever girl" raptor impression.
>>
No. 73611 ID: beeca1

So, we need to discuss this. How do we go about wooing, in this order:

1) Giantwife. Long since agreed to be aiming for her. Exercising helped a bit.

2) Lukawife because she's too adorable not to.

3) Crownwife?
>>
No. 73613 ID: c95833

>>73611
I think you have confused Three Stripes with Story Seeker.
>>
No. 73615 ID: beeca1

>>73613
Nah. It was generally agreed to try and get Giantwife before Story Seeker was a thing.
>>
No. 73620 ID: f5680f

I think Giant is the only one who seems to take Three Stripes seriously. She is also the only person around who is the right size. Keep in mind Three Stripes said that he would just hurt any of his old neumono slaves if he tried to have sex with them, but he said Giant might be big enough.

For all we know they ARE doing it offcamera, considering Three Stripes is officially part of their hive, and hives do that sort of thing.
>>
No. 73623 ID: beeca1

>>73620


Maybe, but:
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/draw/res/11257.html#15785

We need to upgrade "may-or-may-not-be canon" to "definitely canon".
>>
No. 73631 ID: bf54a8

more like make a new breed of super soldier specialized in sneaking. they can sneak through an enemy hive by emulating that hive signal and can do the jedi mind trick on anyone that wonders who they are. predator/neumono hybrids = OP
>>
No. 73632 ID: cdb0ce

>>73631

Even if they're possible, there's no guarantee on how the hybridization will interact. Generally they do appear as a "blend" of traits, but it likely changes depending on which one is the mother, and Ligers, for example, aren't just a blend of tigers and lions; a quirk in how growth is handled and passed on makes ligers grow huge. And some things probably can't coexist: given brain structure, for example, a neumenedator would probably either have super empathy or full linguistic intelligence but not both. Or, given that the brains are spread out, maybe not? Actually, we're not sure their planet even has the same DNA/chromosomes setup that earth does.
>>
No. 73656 ID: 7da04e

What's with this talk about Giantwife and whatnot? I don't see any evidence of sexual attraction between the two of them (and being empaths, they'd notice). Plus, while I don't mind interspecies relationships, I start feeling screamish when one of the parties're as low-cognition as Three Stripes.

But what really bugs me is the term 'Giantwife'. Intentional or not, that reminds me too much of the 'waifu' term used by basementdwellers and the like. It's one thing to ship two characters together, but when you name one of them '(name)wife' like they're things to be collected... Ugh.
>>
No. 73658 ID: beeca1

>>73656
Three Stripes isn't stupid despite his unfamiliarity with the language and technology.

"Giantwife" was a convenient shorthand for "Hey, Giant and Three Stripes would be cute together." "Giant/3stripes" or "3xG: or whatever else have equally bad connotations from fanfiction.net and
12-year old lemon writers on such sites.
>>
No. 73663 ID: ea4b0b

>>73656
what 73658 said, yo. Stripes is plenty sentient, and damn smart too if his track record is any indication. You do gotta ralize his brain developed differently, so the centers of his brain dedicated to speech might not even exactly exist beyond basic memorization.
See, us humans have a bit of the brain that automatically parses language data for us to allow us to read and write and speak with far greater ease. Whereas with three stripes... well, he has to remember the meanings and connotations of every single word he learns on his own, likely without that boon, having evolved around the weird psychic things neumono use.

TL:DR three stripes is sentient, he's just got a different brain probably
>>
No. 73667 ID: beeca1

>>73663
Some of that, and do remember he's having to learn 2 unrelated languages and going from stone-age tools to space-age tech. It's the equivalent of an average American being forced to learn how to manipulate the fabric of spacetime by wiggling his eyebrows, speak Latin , and speak Welsh, all at the same time.
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No. 73682 ID: 7da04e

You do make some good points. A lot of his difficulty understanding things is lack of technological/cultural/language references, I can see that. And it seems like we're dealing with different views of connotations here. To me the two alternatives you named're neutral, largely because I was exposed to the less sucky parts of fandom--I've mostly dealt with adult, mature people.

I still don't quite see it romance-wise, but hey, ship on. I'm cool with it now. Not everyone sees the same ship potentials after all.
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No. 74792 ID: 87584b
File 137576894705.png - (271.22KB , 600x500 , discussion.png )
74792

Polokoa Quest can be discussed in this thread.

Thanks, Lagotrope!
>>
No. 74826 ID: 41690e

>notices colors
...wait, is the scarf made out of Polo's old bioarmor? (And Rokoa's before that?).

Might sort of make sense why it's important to her. It's the one thing both her sides ever actually shared.
>>
No. 74828 ID: 87584b

>>74826

Yes! Though it's been adapted/integrated by the new suit by now. Good eye.
>>
No. 75021 ID: eca7ea

I really feel like I should ask. Just how long have you been waiting to use that "Marco Polo" joke?
>>
No. 75025 ID: da4ec6

>>75021
I've personally been waiting since the start of the quest for an opportunity to use it.
>>
No. 75026 ID: beeca1

Still waiting for a chance to use "polo shirt".
>>
No. 75030 ID: a23afd

>>75026
Maybe if Polo ever takes Biles' survival training test and winds up making a shirt out of her own fur.
>>
No. 75038 ID: d38f67

>>75021
I never planned on using it, and I was never looking at every update for a chance to use it.

It's inclusion was still inevitable.
>>
No. 75243 ID: 742a1e

In Polokoa Quest, has anyone noticed that Polokoa's first verse links up perfectly with the first beat that the CAI guy suggested we use in the thread? Because that's pretty awesome.
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No. 75692 ID: e15bdc
File 137772795340.jpg - (39.94KB , 298x509 , sniper rokoa.jpg )
75692

>Sniper Rokoa
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No. 75694 ID: 8a2d6f

>>75692
ilol'd
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No. 75717 ID: 96c896

So... if you somehow managed to create a Neumono/Miklik hybrid... would it be some sort of long-eared half-plant toothy psychic thing?
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No. 75719 ID: bd48c5

>>75717
Actually, an ancient Chinese monk grew plants in his skull. Palm branches. Stuck out like antennae. I kinda think it was inadvisable to stick a living organism in your brain, but he lived to a ripe old age. Neumono wouldn't even have the problems of brain damage, they can just regenerate around the plants.
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No. 75721 ID: 96c896

>>75719
That sounds incredibly fake. Also you completely missed the joke.
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No. 75724 ID: bd48c5
File 137783429709.jpg - (47.06KB , 668x190 , Bladewolf.jpg )
75724

>>75721
I am aware of your attempts at referencing The End. I simply do not find them funny.
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No. 75727 ID: 96c896

>>75724
Still completely missing the joke.

...The End is not a long-eared psychic thing. He's not even half-plant. Yes, I am aware he can absorb the sun's energy during battle to recover stamina. That doesn't make him half-plant.
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No. 75733 ID: cee89f

>>75717
>>75719
>>75721
>>75724
>>75727
Oh for pete's sake...

If the joke gets missed for that long, bloody explain whatever knowledge the other person is either not privy to or has overlooked. -_-

96c896 is referring to Scellor, one of Jukashi's creations. Hedonistic plant-mammal hybrids with long ear-tubes used for breathing and sharp retractable teeth. They're also the most powerful psychics in their universe.
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No. 75736 ID: bd48c5

>>75733
I see.
>>75727
He is too half-plant!
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No. 75747 ID: bc8d67

>>75733
Yeah, I spotted the Scellor connection right off, but thought it too obvious to mention. Guess I was wrong.

>>75719
And this made me think of Harold the ghoul from Fallout 2, who had a something like a bonsai tree growing out of his head.
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No. 75749 ID: b32a14

Anyways.

I thought of a way we could have gotten around the problem of the salikai using the CAI to issue fake reports and check ins from the inspection team.

Polo would have needed something like a reverse duress code. Instead of a code structure to signal when a message is compromised- Polo needs one to signal when everything is legit. If an imposter was unaware of the code, false reports would flag an alarm.

For maximum paranoia and effectiveness, the all clear code would only be know to Polo's hive, and not the ultrahive. That way, ultrahive(s) being compromised wouldn't matter. So long as someone from Sealock gets to look at the logged communications from Polo's team in the field, the message would go through, and they'd notice when the all clear stopped showing up in communications.

...of course, that doesn't help us now. Unless someone else on the team was that crazy prepared.
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No. 75860 ID: 444423

Considering the question of the salikai, and where they get their resources from, how they spread bugs so well... it's all really too much for just the salikai that were left behind after Polo's first adventure. Secretly undermining a whole hive, with alien allies? Whole communities' worth of voklit under thumb? Unless they were Batman levels of prepared, they couldn't get all that done so fast. But what if they had help? Salikai have to keep in touch with each other somehow, else they wouldn't be able to have offspring at all. Rokoa killed almost a family's worth of kids, but they had to have aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents... where would you go after getting kicked out of your home? Now, they're not altruists, I'm guessing, but they'd trade with each other for assistance. Polo's salikai have plenty that they could give to other salikai in exchange for aid: the bugs, for example. Especially with the parent bent on revenge and easily persuadable to do anything that causes more grief for neumono in general.

What I'm getting at is, the salikai probably have more resources than Polo would like, and that the threat won't be done with just by dealing with these ones. It'll be knocked back, since other salikai won't have as much information and science minions and a predator of their own trained, but it'll come up again later. Polo and co. will need to keep an eye towards the future.
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No. 75895 ID: 57a559

And that's just ignoring the potential salikai population that has been smuggled off planet. The aliens of the neumono planet have little interest in the hate between the neumono and salikai, even probably understand their both sentient with their weird issues.

So what if they happened to support the neumono first, all the aliens did was upgrade them. They never offically supported the genocide of the salikai, not do they have any real unofficial interest. Humans and Belosians have probably smuggled a bunch off the planet because of how useful they are with their intelligence. I don't even think the neumono have explicitly asked the aliens to never do these things with any agreements, the neumono are just getting the handle of orbital drops and space bullshit, space traffic is probably regulated by aliens so their's no accounting for the salikai who've gotten off planet, like Zozu.

Throw in cloning and genetic engineering technologies and the salikai might have a fighting force out there in space, waiting for the appropriate time for counter attack, or just to hide until they're strong enough that they have enough war deterrents to go public and get social and integral with all the races in the galaxy without fear of neumono annhilation. Get enough diplomatic pull with the humans and belosians and the neumono will probably back down and let go of their hate so Galaxy War I doesn't happen.

So, really, the neumono have a lot more on their plate with the salikai than even just this supposed web of salikai allies on the planet. They have to worry towards the stars, who can say how many salikai are out there now, planning a counter attack for the genocide?
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No. 75953 ID: 07e3a8

Slight case of fridge horror: the real winner in that battle Polo and co just made it through is the grottle and its soon to be hatched eggs. We left them a cavern filled with fresh corpses to devour.

Heck, if Polo hadn't found and mercy-killed Niam, it's entirely possible he would have survived just long enough to be eaten alive.

Yay for giving the terrifying invasive / introduced species a leg up in establishing itself here. You know, the monsters left behind are going to be a real problem for the non-tech voklit long after the salikai are defeated.
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No. 75970 ID: da4ec6

By creating Sniper Rokoa, Lagotrope has accidentally made Polokoa an actual possibility.

Gentlemen, we now have a new goal.
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No. 75975 ID: 75c260

>>75970
No.
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No. 75995 ID: 207ae7

Yes.
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No. 76007 ID: 78ad00

>>75970

Good sir, are you implying that my meticulously researched tribute quest is somehow... unrealistic?
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No. 76013 ID: 0a0b4d

Am I the only one vaguely annoyed by neumono being able to go weeks without sleep? Not annoyed as in "omg wtf your race is so OP" but annoyed as in "I can't figure out how that would work."

Multiple hearts, decentralized nervous system, fine. That's pretty much what a species evolved for resilience would have. Having one of any vital organ is a major weakness.

Higher body temperature, higher metabolism, difficulty retaining fat/muscle, they all make perfect sense.

Having a hard time swimming, fine. Being able to hold their breaths for long periods of time is... odd, given their higher metabolism and the fact that they didn't evolve specifically for aquatic life, but lots of biological processes can be anaerobic and I just assume neuomono have a higher proportion of those.

Going without sleep for weeks? I can't think of a way to make it... internally consistent, I guess you could call it. Anything I'm missing from ITQ/the main thread, or should I go ask Korli or someone how it works, if they have any idea?
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No. 76014 ID: 78ad00

>>76013

Tiredness is about certain poisons building up in your tissues and not being flushed away, right? If you're not being physically active, then the problem is with your brain tissue. In a centralized nervous system, all your brain cells are right next to each other, so all they can do is spill their tiredness all over each other. With a decentralized system, you'd be better able to dilute the fatigue toxins through your whole body. And, with redundant brain sections, when one part of your brain gets tired, you can switch to the backup. The total result is, you'd take a lot longer to get as bad as a human would in the same amount of time. But, conversely, it would probably take longer for that eventual state of exhaustion to go away.

However, Biles can stop his hearts at will, and it may be he can pull a similar trick of putting parts of his brain to sleep while their backups work, and that switching cycle would make him last a longer time still. And if all else fails, a neumono could also possibly power through tiredness by just letting their cells die of exhaustion, and replace them by regeneration.

End result, by my reckoning: neumono are slower to get tired, but that tiredness takes longer to go away, and they'd be more prone to brain damage from injuries while tired. And when they're absolutely exhausted, they use up their energy and nutrients faster, because they'll be regenerating cell damage.
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No. 76015 ID: 0a0b4d

>>76014
The first bit about fatigue toxins I can almost buy. It does sort of make sense, but having more brain matter doesn't automatically makes you immune to sleep. For example, humans have proportionally larger brains than, say, cats. We still sleep less than cats do. Plus, neumono have been shown sleeping just as often as other races.

Source on brain proportions: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/kinser/Int3.html

The other bits about shutting down or killing bits of the nervous system don't seem plausible. There would certainly be drawbacks related to temporarily losing parts of your brain, and Biles specifically said he could function just fine with no loss of such things.
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No. 76016 ID: 0a0b4d

>>76015
...That bit about cats made sense when I wrote it. I should stop waking up so early. Replace humans and cats with cats and sharks. Cats have proportionally larger brains than shark and still sleep more than sharks.
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No. 76020 ID: cee89f

>>76013
Humans can go for days without sleep, that doesn't mean they do it as a matter of course, or that it's healthy for them.

The Neumono evolved for resilience and strength (as you said yourself) so it makes sense that their body would continue to function under extreme circumstances. Their brain, admittedly, is a bit harder to justify, but putting parts of a decentralized nervous system to sleep while other parts work makes enough sense to get away with imho.

>The other bits about shutting down or killing bits of the nervous system don't seem plausible. There would certainly be drawbacks related to temporarily losing parts of your brain, and Biles specifically said he could function just fine with no loss of such things.

*confuzzled* Sleeping brain matter is still there and functional. It's not dead, it's just slowing down and repairing itself.

>>76007
Indeed. I can't put my finger on what it is exactly, but SOMETHING about Polokoa Quest seems... how to put this... like all sense of reality has been chucked out the window?
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No. 76021 ID: 78ad00

>>76015

It's not having larger brains I specified, but less centralized brains. Osmosis, you know? Movement from high concentration to low concentration. The more non-brain tissue the brains are in contact with, the more the tiredness juices will leak out. And neumono have more blood and a faster metabolism, so the toxins will be cleared out more quickly, as well.

As for:
>There would certainly be drawbacks related to temporarily losing parts of your brain, and Biles specifically said he could function just fine with no loss of such things.

The loss of brain matter from exhaustion would be much less significant (or at least, more gradual) compared to that of losing a limb, and especially tough neumono (like Rokoa) have shown no noticeable loss of mental acuity when that happens. Also, yes, he said that - to Moi. We haven't had his internal commentary on his condition, save that he's "confident in my own awareness", for now, and that he's gone without sleep for weeks before (without comment on what condition that put him in by the end). Anyway, if a lost limb can let a tough neumono still function well, they could function well while putting bits of their brain to sleep in sequence, if that's possible for them.

Besides, science is not totally clear on why we need to be unconscious now and then, as opposed to just needing rest. Hibernating animals actually need to move a step up in body activity sometimes, to sleep as they normally do, and then go back to the lower-energy state again. Neumono may just have developed sleep as a way to save a little more energy at night when they're not doing anything, or to switch their brains to a mode that can better handle growth and healing, or for some empathy-related reason, given they can share dreams. There are plenty of benefits sleep could have that they don't need in a crisis. They're aliens.

And it's not like it's saying everyone can do this, just Biles. And he can stop his hearts, which is already beyond what we'd readily believe of a human. If we found some monk somewhere who could put his brain to sleep half at a time and still function well for weeks, it wouldn't be too much more unbelievable. Even humans have lost large chunks of brain and remained able to function normally, if extremely rarely.
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No. 76022 ID: 0a0b4d

>>76020
Sleeping brain matter isn't usable, either. Sorry for the confusion. And no, it doesn't really make sense that neumono would evolve to not need much sleep. They're part of a hive mind. Durability is a plus so you don't need to replace parts so often. Sleep, however, is fine, since there's other neumono to do work.

>>76021
Good points. I agree with most of it, but I doubt Biles can sleep bits at a time, since that'd still count as sleep. And his comment implied there was a upper limit on how long he could go; cycling seems perpetually sustainable if it's at all possible.

Plus, it's not like Rokoa uses her higher brain functions much. Most of what she's done has been hate, rage, murder, and making the first three more efficient via explosives.
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No. 76026 ID: 78ad00

>I doubt Biles can sleep bits at a time, since that'd still count as sleep.

Not to a brain surgeon, no, but in a survival expert's vocabulary, "sleep" would mean "unconscious", and probably also "vulnerable". "Awake" takes precedence over "asleep"; if part of you is awake, you're awake, and if only part of you is asleep, you're still awake.

>cycling seems perpetually sustainable if it's at all possible.

Half-sleeping, though better than no-sleeping, would likely be much less efficacious than just half the benefit of full sleeping. So, let's assume neumono are like humans and normally want 8 hours in 24. Unlikely, but for demonstration. And let's say you cycle your brain half-and half constantly. In every 2 days, each half of your brain would get 3 sleeps. But, since it's sitting in a body that's active, and connected to the other half of your brain that's active, maybe it only gets a half of the benefit of a real full sleep. You end up with 1.5 days worth of sleep every 2 days. And that would be enough to keep you functioning well for quite a while, but eventually you'll want real sleep again.

>Plus, it's not like Rokoa uses her higher brain functions much. Most of what she's done has been hate, rage, murder, and making the first three more efficient via explosives.

Your so-called "higher" brain functions, nice though they are, do not occupy most of your skull. When people take brain damage, their education in classical philosophy is not usually what's at stake. It's often their ability to use their body that goes first: the ability to speak, or coordinate their limbs, or to use their senses to the fullest. Rokoa is a fighter, and more, she's one who's survived and been successful. To do that she has to have good awareness, good body control, the ability to anticipate, to keep track of her surroundings, to calculate a range of complex variables, and to think tactically on a timeframe of seconds and split-seconds. Just because most of this probably manifests to her as "instincts" and "gut feelings", if she's conscious of them at all, does not mean that they're not happening in her neural tissue.
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No. 76027 ID: 0a0b4d

>>76026
>First point
Granted.

>Second point
Maybe, but from this point on, anything either of us can say is going to be pure conjecture.

>Third point
That's certainly how terrestrial brains work, but the point is that neumono are aliens with radically different neurology. Still, you're correct that such things are universally more complicated than higher functions, so it still almost certainly applies to neumono. Granted.
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No. 76031 ID: cee89f

>>76022
>And no, it doesn't really make sense that neumono would evolve to not need much sleep. They're part of a hive mind. Durability is a plus so you don't need to replace parts so often. Sleep, however, is fine, since there's other neumono to do work.

How does a hive mind affect the advantages of being awake for long periods at all? =/ The longer a neumono is awake, the more it's doing. This would be invaluable during emergency scenarios, if nothing else.
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No. 76032 ID: 0a0b4d

>>76031
The problem with humans and other non-hivemind creatures sleeping is that you're vulnerable and unproductive.

Consider a hivemind one creature with individual parts. If any one part is asleep, it is much less of a problem than if a human is asleep. Its hivemates can guard it, and the drop in productivity is much smaller.

It's still beneficial to have them sleep as little as possible, but not as high a priority compared to everything else.

As for emergencies, that's why you wake them up via empathy or a kick.

Compare humans to neumono. Being asleep is much more of a problem for humans. Therefore, if one species is likely to evolve lessened need for sleep, it'd be the humans.

Of course, the only hive sleeping shown so far did it all at one time, so I may be incorrect.
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No. 76076 ID: 07e3a8

>Wait half a thread to get back to dream battles
>Switch perspective to a character who doesn't sleep
...Lago you're doing this on purpose, aren't you. You're just rubbing it in.
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No. 76077 ID: 207ae7

So how do you pronounce Biles?

Is it Bye-uhlz, Bills, Boh-lass...
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No. 76094 ID: 520645

>>76076
Hey, it's what the suggesters voted for at the end of PQ thread 3, so there's nobody to blame but us.
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No. 76101 ID: 6d5e30

I've forgotten, whats the verdict on us being able to split into many divisions and have them absorbing and fighting separately. Since we are operating at an amount of jetalium that makes it hard to control with one unit, and we have something like half a million individual personalities in there, whats to stop us from making thousands of divisions and and having us an army instead of an individual?

If it's just a matter of range for control, we could set up our divisions to act as repeaters, making a web network to control divisions as they spread apart. We could potentially handle any threat as a hivemind army.
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No. 76107 ID: d38f67

It's pronounced Bye-lz.

Much like the made up/incorrect plural form of Bile.

>>76101
The current limit is 1 Division per division module. Currently, Unity has 2. Typically it's the split attention that causes it to have limitations, but since there are thousands of individuals within Unity, that is obviously bypassed. It does allow some extreme multitasking in a single body of jetalium (much like when shuffling through the room of paperwork), but the limit for seperate bodies remains at 2.

The range is 1 KM tops before it is lost, and that's from the core itself, there is no way to make repeaters to extend that range at the moment.
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No. 76151 ID: 0f507c

Trying to figure this out.

>From ITQ
>Every single generation of clones gets a new number, and a C if they're a clone or an I if they're an injection. So, RC-3.I-4.2-C3 would imply the 3rd clone of the 2nd injection of the 4th injection using the 3rd clone of the original Rokoa. I think I did get it backwards before. They're sort of interchangable as long as you know which way it goes.
>Sniper Clone is I4-2.C1-R

So... "injection" I assume means one that was a takeover of an existing individual, while "clone" is from a blank? So she'd be the fourth takeover, whose rokoaness was taken from the second takeover, whose rokoaness was taken from the first rokoa clone.

Or... does "injection" mean a clone dart? So then she came from the fourth clone dart taken from the second... batch of material? Taken from the first rokoa clone.

Neither of those feels right, though.
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No. 76181 ID: 9ddf68

Ok I know this is off topic but thinking about Unnatural Selection and back to the choices we've made what would have happened if we didn't join up with the dead batteries in the beginning? I mean we mostly just joined up with them because we only knew at the time we and sevener had to kill sapphire and felt rushed to be the ones to get the job done before sevener could so we went with the first person/group who seemed to offer us a way to do just that. So in short, if we didn't go with the dead batteries what other options did you have waiting for us?
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No. 76191 ID: d13e74

>>76181
Wing it.
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No. 76219 ID: 134f29

I'm curious, how does neumono meat taste?
Is it gamy like a wild animal, or is it "long pig"?
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No. 76220 ID: 57239a

Pilon already answered that, as I recall. Someone asked if he'd ever tried to cook his own ear. I think it was said to be like bacon but fattier.
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No. 76341 ID: a1f107

Yo, I'm going back to college this week, and either the next update or the one after is going to be a big one, so here's just a note saying it might take a while for Polokoa Quest to update again.
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No. 76408 ID: f9cf6a

Hey, Jukashi, there wasn't an explanation of what a "White Alert" is in Poloka Quest and why it'd take three divisions out of five of the ship's crew, and the specialists at that. Was it intentionally left out or just an oversight?
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No. 76419 ID: cee89f

>>76341
Have fun!... as much fun as college can be, anyway.

>>76408
It's like a Red alert, Blue alert and Green alert all rolled into one.
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No. 76445 ID: 5bf190

>>76408

Intentional! So you can try to guess, and so the eventual reason will impress you more, or disimpress you more, depending on your imagination and/or patience.
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No. 76501 ID: da4ec6
File 138039705686.jpg - (238.23KB , 556x544 , no_image_macro_feeling[1].jpg )
76501

>TOUCH SPINY TONGUE
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No. 76502 ID: f45380

It occurs to me this kind of thing is going to be a problem even after the salikai are defeated, their base destroyed, and their military dismantled. There will be still be leftover fufas, grottle, and other monsters / experiments in the voklit caves.

...which means whatever new treaty or agreement gets brokered between the neumono and the voklit will have to include help from the outside world in exterminating or otherwise dealing with the invasive threats. Either allowing in teams, or providing voklit with weapons. Because spears and clubs aren't going to cut it anymore.
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No. 76511 ID: 2f4b71

>scrapdice
So:
- 4 suits of cards
- cards worth cash, akin to casino chips, but cash value doesn't affect direct playing value (only perceived player value)
- cards played in stacks (decks), but a deck can be a single card
- cards orientable
- deck ordering important (uppermost card 'active'?)
- played on a board with functional positions (e.g. cashout for specific suits)
- dice advance desk along board
- cards 'trump' each other by deck, affected by position on board
- winner-takes-card

Possible:
- player gets one diceroll per go, or one dice per deck (so you could scatter lots of single cards across the board instead of one superdeck), decks moved in turn or each player moves all their decks per turn, dicerolls freely assignable (allowing a deck multiple moves per turn at cost of a stationary deck?) or tied to a specific deck.

- dicerolls 'stick' to decks by being placed atop them, affecting the deck's value, dice can either be tied to a deck to increase it's power, or rolled to allow the deck to move

- dice 'purchased' similarly to cards, or accumulated through some other process (e.g. board squares, completing a 'run' of the board)

- board places define a trump suit, possible a 'bad' suit, possibly a conditional trump based on stacked dice value or order of deck stacking

- number of sides of dice (6? 8-sided with numbers and suits? Other multiples of 4?), maybe multiple dice of varying sides depending on situation?
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No. 76513 ID: d38f67

Don't worry too much about the rules, I only laid out what I did just to show what the game itself was about. The actual rules will be abstracted in quest.
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No. 76514 ID: 2f4b71

>>76513
Sure, I'm just trying to figure out how to make it into a physically playable game.
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No. 76515 ID: 2860b1

>>76514
And by that I assume you mean "strip scrapdice"?

That does sound very briefly amusing. Especially if you use clothing for cards.
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No. 76516 ID: d38f67

>>76514
Cool, just wanted to be sure you weren't frantically gathering every dropped element of the game to prepare for input that won't come.

>Strip scrapdice
I sure won't be coding it.
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No. 76517 ID: 2860b1

>>76516
...I hadn't actually made the connection to the strip poker games until just now. Heh. No, that'd probably be a terrible video game.
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No. 76519 ID: 2f4b71

>>76515
Nah, I just think a dice & cards based gambling game would be pretty interesting; most are one or the other.
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No. 76527 ID: 6628ca

>>/quest/542573
Rokoa was largely lying through her teeth about implants in thread 1. Subsequently we've learned regeneration makes mechanical augmentations problematic at best, and for the most part replacement parts that are superior to their biological counterparts just don't exist, aren't available, or aren't worth the costs and trade offs.

Of course, it's entirely possible someone on the asteroid has better tech or research than we've seen before, or their are specific modifications / applications where it does end up being worth the difficulty and trade offs, or some individuals are just more willing to go for it. It's still unusual, though.
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No. 76528 ID: 2860b1

>>76527
I do remember that. given that there were neumono at the trade hub and Rokoa knew it or knew it was likely that there was at least one, I don't see why she would lie about the fact that it's possible, since that'd be too easy to catch.
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No. 76529 ID: 6628ca

>>76528
It's a first thread lore inconsistency. The lie only worked because the players (and the CAI) didn't know what neumono were up until just a few hours prior, or know much about their biology. In retrospect, it doesn't make sense that she could have convincingly lied the explosives she was carrying were cybernetic enhancements.

There's some similar awkwardness in some the way Polo describes empathy and silence in the first intermission thread that doesn't quite seem to jive with later established norms. And if you really want to nit-pick early inconsistencies, Rokoa's physical size is pretty wobbly up till around I1-3 or I1-4.
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No. 76530 ID: 2860b1

>>76529
Early installment weirdness, then. Alright, I can live with that.
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No. 76531 ID: 58c621

Theoretically, it's entirely plausible that a random neumono could have some immunodeficiency disorder that makes them able to use cybernetics.
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No. 76532 ID: 6628ca

>>76531
True. And even if cybernetics aren't perfect, I suppose someone has to be the guinea pig if they're ever gonna get good. And regeneration does mean a neumono would have a lot more leeway to screw around with this kind of thing than other species.
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No. 76534 ID: d38f67

Excuse me while I slow down for a few days while I do what should've been done for awhile, which is to re-read all asteroid quests and get an asteroid.txt to keep all my shit together so I don't have to let inconsistencies be written off as 'oh this character was mistaken/lying' or whatever
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No. 76536 ID: d38f67

Update on the preceding post: Asteroid Main thread 1 is full of descrepancies of events, decisions and character. Anything that conflicts with asteroid main thread 1 will be considered to be a retcon, as I was reminded why I was, at one point in time, considering dropping asteroid main thread and declaring Polo intermission to be the main quest.

Namely, the part where Rokoa paid off her bioarmor debt with the iron cove mission alone? That just, uh, didn't happen. Also, her lying about her implants that were actually explosives was a crude flow of events.

Then again, I'm sure I'm going to read some things in Polo Intermission, especially early on, that will confuse and bewilder me.
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No. 76538 ID: 6628ca

>>76536
The lie working can sort of be excused by the fact that the CAI honestly didn't know any better, or that people in the base who should have known better (say, Kappi) either weren't in the loop to react fast enough, or were too frazzled to notice. We could also excuse her being out of empathic range, or broadcasting too much Rokoa terror-aura for any trade hub neumono to register her lying (or think clearly). Rokoa actually attempting to sell a blatant lie is sort of an issue, but you could always attribute it her basically daring us to call her bluff- she'd have had no problem with fighting her way in, after all.

>I'm sure I'm going to read some things in Polo Intermission, especially early on, that will confuse and bewilder me.
The biggest weirdness about the early intermission (aside from how much Polo's face has improved due to art drift, or small Rokoa) is mostly empathy stuff.

For instance, her offer to teach Rikek to go silent doesn't make sense with her later established training timeline.

There was also at least one point where surprise or emotion made it difficult for her to stay silent, as if what she's doing is maintaining a calm, unreadable disposition rather than shutting down her broadcasting equipment.

The weirdest bits though are when she casually mentions other neumono going silent. I think this ties into the previous thing, where the others are just supposed to be calm or not broadcasting anything noticeable. Polo's saying "I'm not getting anything useful from them". But I'm pretty sure it's later established that most other neumono are never really silent, even if you can't make out anything useful from their empathy. As long as they're in range and not jammed, you can feel them there.

I think that's all confined to I1-1, though. From then on, I think the only contraction is there's a line or two in the warhive brig that breaks since it was later established physical contact allows empathy to bypass jamming.
>>
No. 76540 ID: 2860b1

>>76538
THAT'S what's been bugging me! It's not in the actual quest thread, but when Lukratsa was asked about sex in and out of jammer fields, she said:

>Course, once you're up in each other's business, you get by that jammer to a degree. But like I said, it's weak.


I'm not sure how much that justifies the brig since I can't quite recall whether it was full-out blocking empathy or just "can't communicate effectively."
>>
No. 76544 ID: 6628ca

>>76540
Yeah, the contact-through-jamming doesn't come up for the first time till they're on the run in Polo Quest (which is fair, since we hadn't done anything with allied jammers up till then). And it takes a bit to clarify it's weaker than normal empathy, I believe. But I'm pretty sure the first mention came before that Lukrasta ITQ, since it had to be tweaked for misleading wording.

The brig was full-out jamming all empathy. The odd bit, in retrospect, is that Polo adamantly insists to the reader that she and Rokoa can't communicate emphatically despite the fact she begins and ends the scene in physical contact with (lying on!) her. (Although, Polo being Polo, I suppose you could justify it as her just not wanting to acknowledged it's an option, and to enjoy the small escape the jammer gave her).
>>
No. 76547 ID: d38f67

>>76544
Yes, it wouldn't have been beyond Polo to try and deny that empathy via physical contact was not an option. The disparity between those implications I don't believe caused any gaping plotholes that caused the quest to break in two or anything, but despite what lucky justifications are available, it was still a gaffe and oversight on my part.
>>
No. 76548 ID: 2860b1

>>76544
You could, but the point is not having to explain away stuff with "X was lying."
>>
No. 76549 ID: 6628ca

>>76548
I dunno, I see finding in-universe justifications more satisfying than merely noting the mistake or contradiction. An in-character instance of a stubborn unreliable narrator is more fun.

The whole quest is about figuring stuff out and trying to explain things. Why not apply that approach to the narrative itself, when you can?

>>76547
Yes, these are hardly gaping plotholes. Small inconsistencies only noticed on rereading, and only because we've been trained to be paranoid and obsessively detail orientated.
>>
No. 76570 ID: 2f2cd6

>card game where the winner is whoever knows more impossible bullshit moves / rules that aren't public knowledge
>only way this works is to have the game arbitrated by computer
I just realized that Hok is basically playing Duel Monsters.
>>
No. 76649 ID: cee89f

>>76570
Obligatory 'screw the rules' joke here.
>>
No. 76653 ID: 820866

>>76570
Waska has a weird eye and his race are all sort of mind-readers. Good thing for us his fuck buddy's alive.
>>
No. 76760 ID: da4ec6

Lagotrope, you are insane
>>
No. 76780 ID: f64e84

>three quests running simultainous-crossover-style
Lagotrope just pulled an epic Quest Stunt. This is the kind of feat that will be sung of in legends long after the AsteroidVerse Quests come to an end I think.
>>
No. 76781 ID: c4e054

>>76780
>>76760

Well, now I need to figure out something even crazier to do with Polokoa Quest...
>>
No. 76782 ID: 5869f6

I don't know what's going on.
>>76781
Break the barrier between her reality and ours.
No really, you've already thrown eldar machine gods into the mix.
No where else to go but up, right?
This could go places, think about it man.
>>
No. 76784 ID: cee89f

>>76780
O_O WAIT WHAT?!

Okay, so, Polo Quest, Asteroid and... and... *google*

>>76781
You're building an eldritch horror in one quest and are about to meet an elder god in another. I'm sure you'll think of something :P
>>
No. 76786 ID: 9da4cf
File 138163147170.png - (250.14KB , 800x950 , queensgambit.png )
76786

So, when I decided to use Lakkat as the ship's commander in Polokoa Quest, what I didn't expect was that rendering him in my style would make him weirdly cute and handsome. (I hope that isn't just me.)

Then I got ideas, and... this happened.

Does this count as fanart? It's of my own quest, but it's a fan quest to begin with. Oh well. People in this thread are more likely to find it amusing.
>>
No. 76789 ID: 7bbaae

>>76784
No, you idiot. Story Seeker, Work of Chaos, and Oremor Trail.
>>
No. 76791 ID: 0f6f63

>>76786
I like what you did with Lakkat in Polokoa. It's a nice what if, showing what a character we didn't give much of a chance might have been like.

>>76789
And with Asteroid, Polo Biles, and UnSe that means he was updating six threads at once.
>>
No. 76794 ID: 3dd384

>>76786
>-is-print-media-still-a-thing
By this point it's pretty likely that handheld readers are advanced enough for people to be doing print-like layout on them. Great for making everything look snazzy on the PADD, y'know. This kind of a eye-catching front page is something I could imagine seeing paging through an "available subscriptions" app. I mean, if my usage profile was the sort that would prompt said app to suggest beefcake mags.
>>
No. 76795 ID: 1f8505

>>76786

Copper underpants sounds incredibly uncomfortable.
>>
No. 76796 ID: 0f6f63

>>76794
Print media might also have found a new stay of execution with a recently uplifted group of primates with big clumsy hands and who feel uncomfortable with fiddly handheld readers.
>>
No. 76797 ID: 5869f6

>>76786
Lakkat is strangely...
Attractive.
Jukashi, stop making me question my sexual alignment, if you would be so kind good sir.
>>
No. 76798 ID: cee89f

>>76789
Ignorant. There's a difference.
>>
No. 76799 ID: 5612af

>>76786
I like this more than I probably should.

>>76797
Bisexual is the only sexual you need.
>>
No. 76813 ID: e87e80

Don't mind me, I'm just waiting for every quest on the front page to be a Lago quest.

(We're almost halfway)
>>
No. 76844 ID: 9ddf68

had a strange thought and wanted to voice it.

If the Arbiter looks like the diamond nobles from the sim we're in right now, what do you think the odds are that he might have been/is a character within this sim that we pulled out like polatt and then he just got stuck in the loop when everything reset?
>>
No. 76845 ID: 0f6f63

>>76844
It's possible. Unfortunately, Arbiter isn't even mentioned in any of the logs we've seen. If we could have tied his first appearance to a shift in the typical cycle pattern (seeing as he's an influential contestant who plays an important part in the formation of Corruptor's coalition) that would support the theory.

The best evidence is probably in his logs. Meaning if you're right, it'll probably be revealed as soon as soon as we finally finish the CAI battle and Arbiter shares them with us.
>>
No. 76846 ID: 04b86a

>>76844
If it was the Corruptor that pulled him out then that could explain the 666-cycle-long gap where Alison doesn't have any logs. It took that long for Arbiter to decide to leave that note because he wasn't there during previous cycles.
>>
No. 76950 ID: 2dcdb4

One guy in the quest assumed that Sharpa was lying about the galaxy not wanting to rescue the asteroid because it'd look good. Something about it only being believable by cynical criminals?

I think that's fundamentally wrong, precisely because the inhabitants of the asteroid are thugs and criminals. The asteroid is basically colonial Australia, but much larger and more efficient. No natives, no wardens needed.

Remember Rokoa's hive being forced to leave the planet because they started throwing nukes around? Think anyone wants to rescue her and her hive? The other two big groups are the pirates, the Zozu family- criminal mobsters all- and Iron Cove, who are mobsters giving themselves airs.

The most likable/least criminal inhabitants that we know of:
Pilon- a mercenary, and certainly not our kind of people, dear.
Itcher and Jessica- former mobsters, now involved in what's likely to be seen as a black market.
Kappi- Involved in said black market AND Rokoa's hive, even distantly.

No one on the asteroid is rescue material. Not only does the government not want to rescue the felons, I suspect they're likely to actively oppose any method of escape.






Also, Sharpa's desire for mass quantities of tungsten and escape combined strike me as suspicious. The only use I know of for large quantities of tungsten is orbital bombardment kinetic missiles, and Sharpa plans on getting far away enough that she could use such missiles if she wanted. I think she's telling the truth about not being rescued and wanting to leave. I also think she's going to try to kill a whole bunch of people when she leaves.
>>
No. 76951 ID: 75a612

>>76950
Except she's not after nearly enough tungsten for an orbital bombardment, and, according to her, the tungsten is a bartering chip with the black supernova.

And only a portion of the black supernova fleet is trapped on the asteroid, and they have a radio that can broadcast out. If the BS wanted the asteroid bombarded from orbit, they could call that in now.

And pretty much anyone with the resources to extract personnel from the asteroid would have the resources they'd need to attack the place from orbit. They wouldn't need someone on the surface gathering raw materials for the attack.
>>
No. 76952 ID: 5bf190

>>76950
>No one on the asteroid is rescue material.

Perhaps you should look again at Hok's cover story for his current disguise>

>I am Pip, a civil engineer, in training, off of one of the latest civilian ship to crash on the asteroid. The Wispy Basilisk, I believe it was. Pretty good sized one, landed a year ago, and everyone scrambled off after it started getting raided.

There are ordinary civilians. He does say that they're not common, but there have been some. In fact, what he says exactly is:

>Not too many civilian ships land here! Mostly edge living pirates and the bounty hunters and law it brings.

Note: "and the bounty hunters and law it brings". So there are also military and law enforcement people. Not high-class snobs, certainly, but not criminals.

More than enough non-scum to counter your argument.
>>
No. 76953 ID: 75a612

>>76952
The presumption that just because civilians are here that the government would automatically mount a rescue remains preposterous, though.

We know nothing about how space travel works in this setting, how well tracked flight paths are, how many ships are zipping around, how common ships are lost or how much government(s) care when it happens (is it treated as we treat plane crashes, or automotive accidents?), how well equipped to mount a rescue the government might be, how hands on the government might be, what the policies are regarding rescue, if there are other more important or higher profile rescues in the queue, if there are other concerns keeping potential rescue resources busy, etc.

There are countless reasons the governing authorities might not mount a rescue, even if the tech is there. We're too in the dark to say for sure. All we know about this setting is a snapshot from one recently uplifted and poorly governed world, and an anarchist isolated rock 50 years later.
>>
No. 76956 ID: 5bf190

>>76953

But Sharpa is saying that all she needs to do is let her hive know she's there and she can be picked up. Now, a single neumono hive numbers, at most, the population of a city - and implications seem to be that the normal amount is much smaller. So, one, you don't even need to be a government to rescue someone from the asteroid, and two, it's possible to do so based on personal agenda rather than official policy. If Sharpa is telling the truth.

As for records, I remind that there are bounty hunters and lawpeople on the asteroid, who we would assume got caught while in pursuit of criminals. If they can track criminals to the asteroid's locale, they can track civilian ships. Also, the notion of not keeping records is nonsense. Even flying a modern airplane takes about two hours of checklists before you take off, without counting any logging of flight plans and fuel taken and so on. Any law-abiding people who can build starships but who don't have regulations about keeping good records would have deservedly blown themselves up long ago. And shipping and travel companies, at least, would be obsessed with that stuff, because their profits are on the line. When something happens to your ships, you investigate. In any case, we know that Polo, at least, knows where Rokoa and her hive ended up, because she sent Rokoa a hidden message/taunt about being trapped on an island. And we know the Black Supernovas know where their buddies are.

So how is it one neumono hive has the resources to rescue one person, while a fleet of space pirates don't have the resources to pick up a ton of fellows and wealth? The only explanation would be that the hive gets access to the technology for being law-abiding folks, but then you still have to ask, how is it an interstellar government body doesn't spend the time and effort that one neumono hive will? In fact, if one hive's resources are all it takes to pick up one person from the Asteroid, why hasn't some hive privy to Polos adventures come to pick up Rokoa? Her crazy infectious biology is mad valuable. If Sharpa was telling the truth, Rokoa would be home by now. In a lab, having segments of her organs regularly removed, but home. :V

Joking aside, though. Something doesn't add up.
>>
No. 76957 ID: 75a612

>So how is it one neumono hive has the resources to rescue one person, while a fleet of space pirates don't
She said her ultrahive, not hive. They tend to have considerably more resources than a given hive (on the scale of nations), and from what we've seen governance of the nuemono planet seems to be a weird coalition between several large ultrahives. The right hive, int the right ultrahive, could influence global policy, and potentially have the power to make very expensive decisions. Certainly, I'd expect a superpower on the homeworld to have more resources than a pirate fleet.

...and homeworld governments tend to have better RnD than pirate fleets too. Even if the BS are well resourced, that doesn't mean they know how to get people off the asteroid. Or that they have an easy way to get at the intel. (Raiding and looting ships in transit is a very different skill than getting complicated science out of planet-bound government-backed labs).

So the fact that Sharpa thinks her ultrahive could arrange her rescue doesn't mean rescue is cheap.

>bounty hunters track people
>logs, checklists, etc
There's a far cry from being able to track people or ships if you make an effort, and knowing exactly where every vessel is at all times and when and where they go missing.

You're assuming something like a modern air control network governing space travel. But what if it's more like ocean travel in the age of tall ships? Not all the records in every port were accessible everywhere else, not every ship went where it was supposed to go, not every captain was honest, not all the travel was legal, not every port had the same laws, and even when big companies suffered losses that didn't mean they could always do anything to fix it.

Look, I'm not saying it's impossible the asteroidverse interstellar network is well connected and well organized. I'm just saying we have no evidence saying it is, and there are plausible scenarios where it could not be. And we shouldn't make plans or decisions based off questionable assumptions.

>In any case, we know that Polo, at least, knows where Rokoa and her hive ended up
Actually, no we don't know that at all. When asked at the start of Polo Quest, Polo specifically says they don't know where the warhive is- they have not been in communication or tracked.

And trying to send a secret message through mass media, a film that would be disseminated all over the place, would imply future-Polo doesn't know where Rokoa is. Or else she'd try something more direct.

>Something doesn't add up.
Yes, possibly. But there's nowhere near a strong line of logic to completely throw her story out.
>>
No. 76958 ID: 7a843b

Also, you two forgot about that enclave the rich folks that crash on the Asteroid go. Itcher and Jess passed through it on Whisker's pub crawl. If folks who were rich off the Asteroid ended up stuck on it, there'd have to be some action from their own organizations out there to try and get them back. After all, they can't all be despised enough to be written off as dead to seize their assets.

>>76956
Polo didn't send a message directly to the Asteroid. What Rokoa saw was a cheesy movie interpretation of Polo's first adventure that presumably saw wide enough release that a copy of it ended up on one of the ships that crashed on the Asteroid, and subsequently made its way to the trade hub's video library. At most it'd mean Polo is calling Rokoa out, but doesn't know where she is, but alternately it couldo be Rokoa reading too much into a schlocky film and Polo isn't looking to fight her.
>>
No. 76959 ID: 2dcdb4

>>76958
Not everyone who's rich is in an organization, and if they're the equivalent of billionaires then maybe they'd be retrieved. But it's a whole galaxy, and a few millionaires won't really be missed.
>>
No. 76960 ID: 75a612

>>76959
There's also the big fish small pond thing. Just because someone is rich and powerful on the asteroid doesn't mean they would be off of it. In fact, our biggest opponents are likely going to be people with vested interests in the asteroid not being connected to the outside world.

...that's also sort of the problem with wondering why the black supernova haven't tried to get their people off. Just because the portion of their fleet that crashed is currently one of the biggest military factions on the asteroid doesn't mean the rest of the pirate fleet is particularly big time in open space.
>>
No. 77079 ID: 761017

In light of the rokoa-polo and sniper!Rokoa brain wars it seems possible for two mind-warring neumono to just live through each other's memories unaltered.

Would that be a mutual "surrender" that would result in killing one or both of them?

The Salikai clone-brain-dart may be a way to inject skillsets into neumono in a Matrix-esque "I know Kung Fu" operation, assuming the injected clone-brain was a willing hive-mate.
>>
No. 77082 ID: d2b9fe

>>77079
Well, in theory, that could work. Although that's a hell of a risk to take for an education.

And I'd suspect even if you start with a willing tutor or donor, it's two very different things to say "sure, you can have a copy of my memories" versus actually having to lay down and die while someone rips your mind apart. (After all, you never really expect to wake up after as the clone. You always expect yourself to be continuous, and the clone to be an other).
>>
No. 77176 ID: 2f4b71

>Arkot reads Spiper-Rokoa's diary
>Sniper-Rokoa kicks Arkot (and feels bad about it)
>Silent friendly Arkot appears
>Becomes NCO cyber-Arkot
I bet that Arkot could read after all. Leaving a note for it explaining we want to de-bug Sniper Rokoa might work to get him on our side.
>>
No. 77180 ID: 7bbaae

>>77176
Pretty sure she could tell the difference between the two arkots.
>>
No. 77182 ID: d2b9fe

>Vasti took a focus drug
So... not only are the salikai sociopathic idiot-savants, they're mentat sociopathic idiot-savants.

Things suddenly make so much more sense. The amazing technical detail and over-planning, the glaring common sense failing in actually bringing plans to fruition, the manic obsession with Polo. Vasti's almost Piter.

>NCO cyber-Arkot
Why are you calling him anything but Blanket. Blanket is totally his name now.
>>
No. 77183 ID: 57a559

>>77182
If Vasti had common sense winning would be impossible. We're having a hard enough time surviving in these conditions.

Well, if he had enough common sense he would have left the planet long ago, repopulated his race, and motion to be part of the galactic government when powerful enough. Make friends in the right places, and any neumono motioning for genocide of the newly strong salikai will be caught in political fallout.
>>
No. 77207 ID: d2b9fe

>>/quest/545728
Jammer cities don't destroy anything, though. They just give the residents a different model to live by. One where empathy is an option, not a constant thing.

We've seen plenty of evidence that the hive mentality and empathy cause neumono loads of problems. It fiercely isolates them into tight-knit groups that are intolerant of outsiders or of division. This social structure is what drove thousands of years of chaos and war, and why the neumono were mostly stone age primitives when the human-belenosian uplift express pulled up.

Although, there are was around this. With the influence of the aliens, and organized world governments, the homeworld now sports more tolerant, modern hives that play better with others. (Sealock obviously. Katzati's hive too. The hunter hive not as much, and the Warhive even worse). The off-world jammer cities seem to work because neumono don't form the same exclusive tribal aggression around their hive, and they aren't in each other's mental faces all the time. Not taking mental communication for granted helps. (And while different than the 'normal' model, it's obviously not terrible. They're choosing to live this way. It's more a splinter culture than anything else).

The point I'm trying to make is it's not completely illogical to think of empathy or hive structure as the problem. Zozu certainly seems to. And it's not illogical that Vanski is thinking the same way, and his final solution is some kind of desperate, permanent fix. (Probably much more drastic and unpleasant than the voluntary jammer-city model).
>>
No. 77235 ID: cc1e8c
File 138307200370.png - (211.13KB , 600x600 , rokolothinkofthechildren.png )
77235

rokolo

rokolo what are you doing

rokolo that is so lewd
>>
No. 77236 ID: 937723

Hmm Neuomono Bukkake is confusing.
>>
No. 77246 ID: 2f4b71

I'm not convinced that the Psi-bomb is anything nearly as mild as a permanent super-jammer.
>>
No. 77253 ID: 35a9a8
File 138310892001.png - (185.78KB , 900x600 , sleepysalikai.png )
77253

Note: Salikai do not actually need to sleep, under normal circumstances. But they do rest.

Cuddles study remains inconclusive, and requires further testing.
>>
No. 77262 ID: bd48c5

>>77253
Not pictured: The two civilizations they collapsed in order to get in the mood.
>>
No. 77263 ID: 34cbef

>>77253
i dunno why this seems so cute, is it that i just can't grasp the concept of snakes with stupid tiny little arms or that they're supposedly scary.

I mean retardedly silly arms, it makes me giggle.
>>
No. 77264 ID: cee89f

>>77235
......

I don't get it.
>>
No. 77265 ID: 7bbaae

>>77264
Those are sperm balls.
>>
No. 77280 ID: bd48c5

>>77265
Unlikely. They look more like snake eggs.
>>
No. 77281 ID: cf16c8

>>77280
They are canonical Neumono sperm balls.
>>
No. 77303 ID: cee89f

>>77265
>>77281
...
the hell? Just the sperm? Why would Rokolo, of all neumono, cut out (what people keep telling me is) the fun part?!?!?!
>>
No. 77304 ID: 2c3b9c

>>77303

You're not getting it. There's nothing being skipped, the balls aren't artificial. Instead of a fluid, neumono males produce spermatophores, a "packet" of their genetic material (as some real-life creatures do). As revealed in Lagotrope's drawthread, this takes the form of a semisolid ball (well, roughly spherical after it's come out, anyway) of blue gel stuff. The females, in turn, can choose to store it and consciously make use of it or not.
>>
No. 77313 ID: cee89f

>>77304
... huh. Never mind then.
>>
No. 77501 ID: beeca1

Is Jash a reference to Jashbireth from that one sadly-defunct quest?
>>
No. 77503 ID: d38f67

>>77501
Nope.
>>
No. 77504 ID: fc937d

>I'd love to have known what your empathy link would be like if you had one
So I was thinking, how impossible would Jess' idea be in light of what we know now?

We've now got the empathic relay, which picks up empathic signals, converts those to some EM signal, transmits that a second device, and coverts the EM back to an empathic signal and broadcasts.

What happens if well, we skip the first few steps? We feed the transmitter a signal not originally derived from empathy. Try to turn non-empathy into empathy, and see what we get. Feed it various signals, wavepatterns, hell, music, complex digital datapackets. What do those sound / feel like? Or better yet, plug the output of a brainscan into a relay, and see what comes out the other end. I mean, it might take a CAI to get the translation protocols right, but in principle, the fact that empathy can be produced artificially or relayed at all suggests inter-species translation could be possible. (Outgoing, at least. It's one thing to scan someone's brain, it's another to try and force input back in where there's place for it).

...thought experiment for the moment rather than an ITQ, since presumably the science hive has been too busy using the tech for four-stripes mind control to play with other fun non-military applications. And we don't know anyone who participated in the actual research to ask.
>>
No. 77581 ID: fc937d

>Moi... well, there's a lot of neumono that would like her legs for a multitude of reasons.
>Those legs transcend eons of anti-extra-hive evolution
So... I can't help but see the thread's titlecard somewhat differently now. >>/quest/539676

He even comments on her legs in his first line of dialog! He's totally checking her out.
>>
No. 77587 ID: 57a559

You know, I said it in the quest thread but I feel like it's bears repeating

There are a LOT of crazy neumono
>>
No. 77589 ID: beeca1

We're not exactly normally in a position to meet many sane neumono. Or many sane any species, really.
>>
No. 77590 ID: 5612af

>>77581
But can love bloom on the battlefield?
>>
No. 78496 ID: ba8629
File 138708149477.gif - (585.03KB , 300x186 , PdhZvLo.gif )
78496

>45-image Polokoa update

I can't
>>
No. 78498 ID: 7bbaae

>>78496
It's 47.
>>
No. 78500 ID: ba8629

>>78498
Are two of them hidden?
>>
No. 78504 ID: 7bbaae

>>78500
Huh, no, you're right it's 45 images, and a song. For some reason it was only displaying 3 other posts above it when I first checked the thread. Should've been 4...
>>
No. 78505 ID: 7bbaae

>>78504
(or maybe I was just bad at math at that point)
>>
No. 78507 ID: 57a559

Jukashi challenges Lagotrope to most insane author in a parody of Lagotrope's universe
More news at 11
>>
No. 78510 ID: fd6ae9

>>78507
>most insane author contest
"I hold the record for the longest single update!" (45 images)
"Yeah, well, I once updated six different threads in the span of a single hour!" (Polo, Asteroid, UnSe, SS, Oremor, Work of Chaos).
>>
No. 78577 ID: aa3456
File 138750348465.gif - (1.67MB , 316x228 , rokoaisnolongerallowedtodothisafterthelastincident.gif )
78577

So that's how neumono kisses work!
>>
No. 78609 ID: 57a559

Meant to post this in this thread, not the Q&A quest character thread. Went looking for the Q&A Author thread but couldn't find it.

Hey Lagotrope,

Are you an experienced GM? The way you lay hints and occasional reminders in the text and dialogue is very similar to a way a GM might run a game, reminding players of stuff or giving them a subtle warning while letting PC's do their PC thing.

Like, about Kolexia's core, when we discuss giving it to the Emerald noble, you used another character that basically said that Kolexia might like it back. I'm not sure if anyone else discussed that concern and you were just summarizing what some of the suggestions said, but that felt oddly like a GM reminder/warning. And Kolexia never actually said she wanted the core back when she uploaded out. I never even thought she might come back for it until that character said that.

Not that I'm straight up asking for an answer to that specific situation if you WERE warning us or not.
Just asking if you GM a lot or if you did in the past.
>>
No. 78610 ID: 05fac0

>>78604
Every now and then I get the feeling that Kappi should be in a Courage Wolf sort of meme. It would go something like this:
CW: Meet the most terrifying female of your species and ask her out.
Kappi: Did that.
CW: Take her to bed and satisfy her.
Kappi: Well, she didn't tear the place apart and massacre everybody, so she must have been.
CW: Still be alive the next day!
Kappi: Hello?
CW: Son, I am proud.
>>
No. 78611 ID: 9cd8ad

>>78609
No, I've GMed once before, but I can't claim to have done it a lot or be experienced in it. Although I have considered GMing again in the future, aside from that one game, it's been all quest.
>>
No. 78831 ID: fb4e93

Oh my all of my everything. I just had the greatest idea in days. A life-size Three Stripes plushie/doll/thing. DAAAAH

ONE DAY. ONE DAY, IT SHALL BE.
>>
No. 78863 ID: f8cbae
File 138877409170.png - (335.20KB , 2000x700 , polokoareffrontfnude.png )
78863

I'm probably not going to update Polokoa Quest any time soon, because exams.

But here's a reference chart I made for Polokoa a good while ago, based on the ones Lago did for Rokoa and Polo. Perhaps it will gratify.
>>
No. 78864 ID: 1e9bd6

So... if I'm reading that right, Polokoa actually looks shorter than Rokoa (her total leg length looks less, at least), she just stands taller / closer to full extension?

>dichromatic nipples.
Well, that's a new one.
>>
No. 78869 ID: 590fbd

>>78864

She does habitually stand taller, but leaving aside that difference, she's supposed to be about the same height as Rokoa, or maybe an inch or two taller. The disparity in the legs is just because I draw a little differently from Lago; it would match up closer if I had drawn Rokoa as well, instead of just copy-pasting. It's the same reason my neumono tend to look fluffier.

As for the flesh tones, well, as mentioned in an ITQ post, if you shaved Polokoa you'd be able to see she has big patchy blotches of piebald black and pink skin.
>>
No. 78881 ID: 33d6cf

>>78869
Hey Jukashi, perhaps this is a bad place to ask but what would a way to privately discuss a quest idea with you? Do you check notes on FA?
>>
No. 78885 ID: 590fbd

>>78881

I will, if I'm expecting a message.
>>
No. 78908 ID: d948e6

>>78885
FA note sent.
>>
No. 79375 ID: 6aaabe
File 139114768939.png - (228.74KB , 600x800 , neumonedator.png )
79375

So, as a little extra payment for not updating for a while... how about some samples from behind the scenes? I don't normally do "development sketches" (or rather, I usually do that sort of thing in the margins of notebooks and on the backs of envelopes and such), but for Polokoa Quest, I wanted to be able to show things to Lagotrope, and so I did some things using the tablet.

So here, to begin, was me designing predamonos, after I first realized I'd be able to fit one into the quest (which was originally planned to go in a bit of a different direction). This lady eventually became Dastrica, though her appearance would be tweaked - mostly making her body a little heavier-looking and her tail and her neck longer and thicker, to make her look a little more like a real hybrid and not just a funny-coloured neumono.

Do you want to know my possibly obscurest semi-joke? "Dastrica" comes from irish "dá stríoca". "Dá" means "two", in the context of describing how many of something there are, and "stríoca" is the plural of "stríoc", which is directly related to the english word "streak", which is another word for...
>>
No. 79376 ID: 6aaabe
File 139114777078.png - (228.31KB , 1100x900 , neumonofightanstyles.png )
79376

I love verisimilitude, and I have a habit of overthinking fictional settings and races. Normally I do this with my own creations, but TestPattern could tell you the discussions I've had with him about tozols, and since I started making Polokoa Quest, I've kind of ended up blathering at Lagotrope the same way about neumono. These discussions are what ended up with me doing a giant ITQ essay about neumono martial arts, and it was toward that purpose that I made this diagram.

I don't know why I gave them all squinty eyes, but I like it. Maybe they're related, despite the physical differences. Or there's a really bright light in the room.
>>
No. 79377 ID: 6aaabe
File 139114783255.png - (699.36KB , 900x900 , zozuclothes.png )
79377

I think salikai are cute now.

I knew I was going to be drawing a lot of them, but mostly in the background, so I wanted to be able to give them a lot of distinct personalities using only visual cues. So I gave them clothes. In particular, I had to design a good costume for Father Zozu, something that was very rich, but also classy, and also sort of sinister. I ended up taking inspiration from Assassin's Creed II for the costume and used that renaissance florentine fanciness with mafia colours - black, red and gold.
>>
No. 79378 ID: 6aaabe
File 139114787587.png - (347.74KB , 900x800 , zozus.png )
79378

But even if I put clothes on them for artistic reasons, that doesn't mean they wear clothes for no in-universe reason! Which brings us to the first installment of Butterfly Theatre - how did things end up being different?

In the original Asteroid Quest timeline, the mother of the Zozu offspring, Lelektis Hakati, was shot through the head during their escape from their homeworld, and died. But in the alternate universe, Polokoa had expressed her displeasure with the general genocide policy neumono had toward salikai. At the time, her influence was still growing, so the only practical effect this had on the Zozu's situation was that the people shooting at them - and one person in particular - were a little more nervous about what they were doing. But small differences can be the most important, and the shot that would have killed Lelektis was a little more inaccurate than it would have been. It took out her eye and tore through part of her face, but she survived and escaped with the rest of the family.

The main result of this, as you'd expect, was that there ended up being more Zozu kids later on. More children meant more competition between them, but with less resources each, and some of those kids ended up searching further afield for ways to distinguish themselves from their siblings. One of those tried studying other species' psychology, and ended up suggesting that if the salikai wore clothes - even just token things - they would look more like people and less like scary monsters. It eventually caught on. Lelektis is/was also a relatively stable and pragmatic salikai, like Zozu himself, which may be why they decided to produce offspring together. And, although she behaves like (and for the most part is) a grumpy alcoholic, whose normal mood is a sort of belligerent apathy, she's unusually personable by the standards of the species; she enjoys having other people around to watch and listen to (and complain at), and has a little more understanding of how other races think. Her survival allowed these (relatively) social habits to rub off a little on her family, in addition to the more straightforward pacifying effect of having two older salikai to keep the rest in line.

I originally planned for there to be a small scene where she drunkenly rants at Father Zozu about how stupid the rap battle plan had been, but ends up rambling about how attractive he is, to the embarrassment of him and her family. I couldn't find a good place to fit it in.
>>
No. 79393 ID: 4bdbe2

>I have a habit of overthinking fictional settings and races

kind of an understatement, dude. you're like two steps removed from reaching Hussie levels of overthinking.

just to be clear, this is a good thing.
>>
No. 79399 ID: 761017

>>79393
>Hussie levels of overthinking.
Correction: Hussie does sidethinking.

Sidethinking is about laterally overthinking the interactions of given plot devices, as opposed to Overthinking, which is about parallely overthinking the fundamentals of given plot devices.

In the real world: Theoretical Physics is analogous to Overthinking; Theoretical Mathematics is analogous to Sidethinking.
>>
No. 79400 ID: 761017

>>79378
>I couldn't find a good place to fit it in.
The best place to put it would be "Inside The Quest"!
>>
No. 79405 ID: cee89f

>I have a habit of overthinking fictional settings and races
I have a habit of retroactive justification - ie, writing things that sound cool and trying to justify their existence later - and it only rarely works out well.

Frankly I'd rather have your habit :P
>>
No. 79555 ID: 57a559

>>79552
>Our bodies do actually get impacted to a certain degree from our surrounding hivemates' empathy, so even superstitious things like 'children born under a shooting star will be intelligent' actually do have an effect as long as the hive honestly believes it.

The power of cultural memes!
Neumono become more and more in line with metal gear canon concepts with every additional piece of canonical information.

Salikai are the Lalelulelo making Polo, like Raiden/Jack, into Snake by trying to make her into Rokoa, only Rokoa's more like Jack the Ripper and The Boss, and Rokoa's also a bit like Sam and so is Rikora at the same time while also being The Boss, and Viln's clearly Bladewolf. And that means that Polo is Big Boss, Sniper Wolf, Raiden, Jack the Ripper, The Boss, AND Sam all at the same time.
The Caves are the oil rig, the Queen's flagship Shadow Moses, which makes the Red Queen Liquid Snake.
Which leaves Kappi as Otacon and Pilon as Ocelot mixed with Grey Fox.
And Three Stripes is ALSO clearly Blade Wolf.
Katzati's Meryl. So is Miss.
Hok is what, Johnny Sasaki?
>>
No. 79556 ID: 0d86f9

I feel like Hok was SUPPOSED to be our protagonist, but then along came Rokoa and her awesomeness, and then there was explaining the neumono and how they worked and then there was the Salikai and now he's like a 3rd-stringer in the Asteroid Verse.
>>
No. 79557 ID: beeca1

>Rokoa
>awesomeness

Pick one.
>>
No. 79558 ID: d470e9

Actually, Hok was going to just be the first protagonist, but it was still going to be a rough thing to call anyone a protagonist when /quest/ was still going to play through the CAI. That of course fell through, and asteroid ended up being way different than originally intended, but Hok was supposed to be an in and out main character, unlike say Alison/Polo.
>>
No. 79567 ID: 4a75fa

Setting aside a joke for later:

After all this mental battle and Rokoa infection nonsense, the next time Polo runs into someone who greets her with "Polo?", her response should be "Mostly."
>>
No. 79571 ID: 57a559

How many times have we done "I didn't say Marco" in the past?
>>
No. 79584 ID: 57a559

Man, I just realized in ATQ how sweet a spot like the asteroid would be to conduct "would it be cool if" experiments. Once the tech to leave is made, and no one tells about the asteroid to the galaxy's government, that will eventually be a super research zone. A scary research zone since it's probably going to require abductions and theft from other regions in the galaxy... of which we are surrounded by many professional thieves and kidnappers.

If that Trade Hub of ours grows big enough we can do fucking everything with funding ... Ben will be in research heaven.
>>
No. 79595 ID: 041c8f
File Polo_quest.swf - (366.97KB , 720x540 , Polo quest.swf )
79595

I thought I might put this together. I loved the flash of Ruby quest, that got me into this and slinky did a great one for his quests.



This is Just Lagos Asteroid quest Polo intermission 1 and only a little bit of it.

Its true to the original, I left out some of the less relevant reader posts for the sake of easy reading.

If people like it I will post up more as I go.
>>
No. 79607 ID: 041c8f
File Polo_quest_212.swf - (1.14MB , 720x540 , Polo quest.swf )
79607

Okay here is part one in full.

Asteroid quest Polo intermission 1

Start to the intro of the Moton

76 slides I think is good considering how large the whole quest chapter was. This replaces the first file I posted. Enjoy. More in a day or two.
>>
No. 79619 ID: 4a75fa

Dunno about everyone else, but flash's obnoxious scaling garbles the images and renders the text near illegible for me, even at fullscreen.
>>
No. 79623 ID: 58fc88

>>79619
It looks fine on my screen but I can put out a larger text version later. Needs a credits and title screen to any way.
>>
No. 79626 ID: d2995c

I also seem to be getting some flash scaling issues for the images. Maybe the flash is adapting to screen resolution in a way it shouldn't be?

Also, for that sort of flash thing you should probably have a back-to-previous-frame arrow. (For reference, see the flash versions linked in http://tgchan.org/wiki/Tezakia_Quest )
>>
No. 79627 ID: 59ae70

>>79607
Needs a back button but very good. Perhaps it could be on the left and a forward button on the right perhaps?
>>
No. 79631 ID: 041c8f

>>79627
yeah that's already in part 2 and I'm reworking part 1. Larger fonts too. So it should be easier to read. Unfortunately the scaling is not something I can fix. It looks okay for me maximized in 1600 x 900. Try opening it with Gom player. It open it up a little bigger in full screen mode. And it dose look a bit cleaner than in the browser.
>>
No. 79633 ID: 4a75fa

>>79626
Slinko's flashes there appear to be fixed size. That's one way around scaling messing everything up.
>>
No. 79634 ID: 041c8f
File Polo_quest_chapter_1_episode_2.swf - (1.21MB , 720x540 , Polo quest chapter 1 episode 2.swf )
79634

Okay here is episode 2

I put in a title page with some credits. Back and forward arrows, as requested. I was looking into that even before it was brought up. It is annoying if you click ahead before your done. And the font size has be increased to make it easier to read.

All art is Lagotrope, I just compiled it. And any yellow text is reader suggestions.

I am thinking about going back and changing Rikek's speech color to lavender to match his eyes since the first episode will need a bit of touch up later any way.
>>
No. 79635 ID: 4a75fa

Both arrows go forward.
>>
No. 79636 ID: 041c8f

>>79634
okay that is annoying the buttons don't work outside of the program that I use to make the raw file. I will see if I can fix it. None of the other effects that I am using work either.

I am using apache open office 4's presentation app.

I'm open to suggestions from any one who knows the software.
>>
No. 79637 ID: 041c8f

I have a pdf. that is easy to read and navigate but its not a postable file type. I will ask Lago if I can link it.

Lagotrope can I link it to an FA account or such?
>>
No. 79641 ID: ba8629

>>79637
I'm not Lago, but that'd be great. I've been meaning to read that one.
>>
No. 79642 ID: df620b

Well if I do I will probably wait until tomorrow. I also already working on episode 3. I plan to make it about twice as long as the last ones.
>>
No. 79646 ID: d470e9

>>79637
Yes feel free to toss it wherever you want, and thank you very much for going through the trouble of making this by the way.
>>
No. 79652 ID: 041c8f

Let see if this works.

Part one of what is essentially polo quest, Asteroid quest intermission 1 part one episode 1

Hell from this point further I will call it Polo quest alpha it's catchy and the actual name is too long.

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12726545/
>>
No. 79653 ID: 041c8f

>>79652
Watch dragon ball z abridged and listen to Vegeta Scream OH FOR THE LOVE OF #@&$!!!

Do not view this in the browser, it kills 99% of the text for some unforgivable arcane reason.

Down load save and read it in a viewer like adobe acrobat or PDF-Xchange (my personal fav)

Then it works just fine. God damn I just need a descent flash maker. But the budget will be too tight for the foreseeable future. So until then Enjoy.
>>
No. 79654 ID: 041c8f

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12726631/
Here is the second installment and I am trying out different formats. Feed back on what you prefer will mean you might get it.
>>
No. 79688 ID: 041c8f

Episode 3 ends part 1 file got a lot bigger here at just under 3 meg, enjoy

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12735171/
>>
No. 79714 ID: 59ae70

>>79654
Personally I believe flash/html5 is the most accessible but keep up the great work!
>>
No. 79721 ID: 284f99

yeah but I can't put any viewing controls in it. No back button, only click forward. That's not the format itself but the limitations of my budget of 0$ software. I can put animated Gif, transition effect, buttons and all sort of stuff... but it gets lost in the export. Pdf at least keeps the button controls and has page select with book marks. It's not ideal, but its the best that I can currently do. If I ever get better software you can bet you bottom that I will put it out in cool bells and whistles flash.

What I meant was, is it easier to read portrait or landscape page format. Port uses original image size. Landscape is scaled to fit.

But thank for checking it out. Next installment will be all of Thread 2.
>>
No. 79755 ID: 041c8f
File 139261838789.png - (87.12KB , 700x700 , 001.png )
79755

Asteroid intermission 1 thread 2 is done. PDF over 150 pages. Enjoy

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/12767738/
>>
No. 79764 ID: 1232b2

>>79755

Hi!
These are really great!
What are you using to generate your pdfs?
maybe it could save some time to switch to LaTeX (I can build you a template, if you want).

Or how about switching to Html5?
With CSS3 even animations are doable and only a text-editor is required. With class definitions, formatting would also become faster...
Downside is, that you either need to provide a file-download or host it on a site. Though, freehosters shouldn't be rare to find^^

I haven't found any free software for flash files myself, when I started the divequest-flashes... Even with fixed templates, where you would think slideshow-software would be sufficient, the software was buggy or limited...
I took a look around now and found synfig, which allows some things, but it doesn't support gifs...
I was fortunate enough to later get a adobe flash licence...

Before that I had a Selteco alligator flash designer licence from school... I remember it was around 40€ to pay, but currently it's around 110€...
It has a trial-mode but with an ugly half-transparent watermark at the middle.
flash CC costs currently around 60€/month or 300€/year.
Or the CS6/5/4 Version for 150€ on ebay/etc.
>>
No. 79767 ID: 59ae70

>>79764
I like this idea, you can use dropbox as a site host too, I've hosted html pages on them before.
>>
No. 79769 ID: 1232b2

It would also be possible to make a little flash file for all chapters.
As you may know, AS3 has a feature to read external files like images or links. also swf and animated gifs in theorie, but that's a bit harder^^
So, to be able to update the content of the swf without compiling it again, it needs to check in a specific location you set during compiling for a text-file. e.g. on a freehoster.
In this file you will have a list with the chapters you already have finished and their location.
Out of that the swf generates a table of content. When then a user click on a chapter, the swf will search at the specific location for a quest-file.
This questfile needs to have its own syntax. A suggestion would be:
<Frame id='1'> <picture src='http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/src/132817546037.png' x='30' y='30' width='400' height='400'> <text color='#12aa3b' value='The discussion thread for that one quest with the green guy and the mimiga cutebold psycho girl.' x='30' y='460' width='400' height='40' size='12'> <text color='#34d3f4' value='instead of making new tech specifically to negae the asteroids magnetic powers, they should destroy the source of the magnetic shit.' x='30' y='500' width='400' height='40' size='12'> </Frame> <Frame id='2'> <text color='#123456' value='HUI!!!' x='33' y='33' width='333' height='333' size='42'> </Frame>
etc.
The swf-AC could read them and use simple text-algorithms to turn the frames into an array and when a user requests a next/back navigation, it would know what to put how where. This could of course always get refined like adding transition animations etc. I guess it's a similar attempt to SVG-Fileformat.
This has the upside that the swf will likely be around 100kb as all external files will be only loaded when requested.
However, I don't know how free you are on different sites with url-access... I have done something similar with a slideshow that I submitted to deviantart.com but that get's its images from sta.sh.
ALso downside is that you need to generate those quest-files...
also you are kind of fixed with your template. The swf might have nice design and nagivation, but if you decide someday to put in some music or a little animation sequence, you need to change the swf again.
Also you need to find someone making the swf^^

By the way... do you know SVG?
You can also make something similar to SWF with SVG, even animations. It's just a little... harder than flash^^ and without any Actionscript or Timeline.
My first attempt was a help-file with navigation for a userscript of mine:
http://phi.pf-control.de/userscripts/Zeichnung.svg

SVGs are natively supported by most Browsers, based on XML and Javascript (which you won't get to see, as Inkscape has a full GUI) and Open source.
This file was made with the Freeware Inkscape, which is like gimp, but for vector-images. You need an extension for Inkscape (e.g. jessyink), though. Then every layer in inkscape will become a new Frame. Jessyink is mainly used to generate slideshows etc. there are some features like a master-frames, key-combinations and frame-transitions, but no animations as far as I know. You will also have a problem with animated gif.
But there are also other extensions, more fitting for animations, all using different attempts^^ I even read that there is an addon to let you switch swiftly between inkscape ans synfic, a freeware swf-editor that is mostly used for animations.

I also tested synfic a little, but gif-files weren't really supported and it mist most features you need for slideshows...
>>
No. 79770 ID: 1232b2

I get tired^^ I just missed the best part about SVGs:

You can made them with an text-editor and they will work natively even in Internet-Explorer.
Microsoft even gave a neat little tutorial how to make animated SVGs from scratch:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/gg193979%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

This would likely also work if you include the image-paths externally (tgchan-links or backups on some freehoster/dropbox).
I just don't know how the support of swf and animated gif is...


By the way, why I keep coming with those:
As far as I remember, Lagotrope used a lot of flash-files and some gif-animations later on... Although I guess weaver used more gif-animations in generall, but still it's a shame if those have to be picked apart or left out...
>>
No. 79771 ID: d470e9

Something that is free that can compile swf's without the adobe flash itself (as far as I have heard) is FlashDevelop.

It is entirely a software for scripts alone, however, so you would have to script everything without the capabilities of just dragging stuff onto the frame/timeline. It still is not that complex, but still can be burdensome to learn how to script importing every single image into the code, or if it's easier, use URLs. I have not done this before, though, since I have flash.
>>
No. 79772 ID: 58fc88

Thanks for all the support. I may redo this stuff later (weeks or months not years). I don't know any of the code and the learning curve is a bit intimidating when I focusing on learning Cisco Ios already. I will look into trying to learn some of this soon. The next few will still definitely be PDF. But I will redo them later as Flash of HTML5.
>>
No. 79773 ID: 59ae70

>>79772
I found CIOS easy but subnetting in your head is the hardest thing unless it's simple stuff like /24. Keep up the good work.
>>
No. 79779 ID: 041c8f

It occurs to me that nearly every one can read a power point presentation. I did this in Apache Open Office Impress. That can save as power point or its own file type. By the way Open Office 4 is free and very good. You can get it at this site http://www.openoffice.org/ , I will put up the original none PDF converted files that do have transitions and some limited animated gif. I don't have and music but I can add it if a good suggestion or file is provided.

I just need to set up a drop box and link it here. Warning I am not very used to using drop box so just tell me if it doesn't work.

This should be a compromise between the desire for a more interactive format and my effectively 0 html style coding knowledge that may not change soon enough. Though a class on it is on the to do list.
>>
No. 79780 ID: 041c8f

Power point for first part
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppkdghiz5ocimse/Polo%20quest%20thread%201%20part%201.ppt

Tell me if it works. This is what I made at first before Exporting it killed all the effects.
>>
No. 79781 ID: 301721

Well, of course it's your decision, which file format you use^^
Of course OO also has downsides...
-> You need to download the files to view
-> You still need to do the same things one after the other to import images
-> To view them, as far as I know, you need to install Open Office yourself.
You are mostly limited on effects.

with Flashdevelop or HTML5, you would mostly copy past old parts. e.g. in HTML5 it would be something like

<div class='Frame' id='frame23'> <img src='.../tgchan.org/.../123.png' alt='' class='top_page_image'/> <p class='red '> Some description for one image </p> </div> <div class='Frame' id='frame24'> <img src='.../tgchan.org/.../124.png' alt='' class='halfwidth_image_float'/> <img src='.../tgchan.org/.../125.png' alt='' class='halfwidth_image_float'/> <img src='.../tgchan.org/.../126.png' alt='' class='halfwidth_image_float'/> <p class='red '>Some other text</p> <p class='blue'>And other blue text</p> </div>

What I want to say is, using LaTeX, HTML5 or FlashDevelop will make most of your work copy past code when the main part for each Form is done.

But I still think what you did is great! If it's just me, just continue what you did so far^^
>>
No. 79782 ID: df620b

test the drop box on a school pc everything works. I might add more effects and sound later. Will start doing this for the other segments. I will still put out the PDF but I will include the power point. I need to take a class or such before I try any coding. It is on the to do list but its not offered until next school year. The flash builder I found that was free is too crash prone to relay work with.
>>
No. 79805 ID: 041c8f

>>79781
starting to look at some tutorials. No promises but I'm looking into it. Plan to have another power point and PDF ready some time next week.
>>
No. 79844 ID: 4a75fa

>It would be nice to see the look on their faces when they get the news like that, but this isn't a mission of indulgence.
Sure it isn't, Polo. You just found a way to prank your enemy in the middle of a mission without even thinking about it, that's all.
>>
No. 79854 ID: 4a20fa

>>79781
>class="red"
Never do this. CSS classes are supposed to be semantic, and the decision on actual stylistic implementation of those semantics is left to the CSS definition itself. Else you may as well still be rolling around in the <FONT> swill.
>>
No. 79860 ID: cfd023

>>79854
Just wanted to express that it can be easy to set simple formatting once a css is done.
Of course you can call your classes like "speaker", "polo" or "suggestion" or use some nested selectors to describe the content better... but in this example, I thought it would make most sense to tell someone without coding experience, that he could change the textcolor along other format with a simple class tag instead of style='color:#f00;' on every occation... which is much worse in my opinion than non-semantic css...

The main div for the chapter could also be replaced with a section or even an article tag to make it more semantic...
Still, everything works, just like the blind-table-layout still works...

But I guess that's all off topic now, as the the one I gave the example to decided on PDF and Powerpoint instead of html...
>>
No. 79866 ID: 041c8f

Actually I am listening to you. Its still a bit over my curve but I am listening. I am sorry if my Zero web design experience is frustrating. I do want to learn this. Though class has me a bit occupied for a while.

Big final super comprehensive lab protect that he teacher thinks is sooooo cooool. Sigh, big part of my grade though.

But I will say this. If you post a template , I will compare it to some tutorials that I have be looking at and when I have more time I will try to make use of it.
>>
No. 79868 ID: 041c8f

>>79860
Okay found a program called coffee cup or something like that. Text HTML 5 editor, but it has lots of pull down templates for doing all sorts of things. And it show you the results of what you have while you work. I have been playing around into the wee hours and have found it very informative.

I am not going to go back to the older threads right now. But I will try to push forward with the next on in HTML 5.

Character text color seems to be the only hang up. Its doable "My god spell check was okay with doable" but a little tedious.

I will see were this goes. I hope to have something worth putting up soon.
>>
No. 79904 ID: 59ae70

>>79868
If it works well I would love to have thread 1 with it, it'd be easier to get people into quests that don't read quests. It's how I got into quests with ruby quest.
>>
No. 79963 ID: 4a75fa

I just realized Katzati lost her arm when one Rokoa clone attacked her, only then to have the next Rokoa clone sacrifice her own hand to save her life. There's an amusing symmetry there. Heck, it's almost like Rokoa paid her back.

...I almost wonder if Katz and leather Clonekoa will end up as sort of friends. Katzati already knows Rokoa pretty well from the dream battles and showed a surprising empathy (in the regular sense) for her, even in the circumstance. And Rokoa backed down and started treating her decently surprisingly quickly. Add in a shared Polo connection and the fact they'll likely be stuck together for a while yet (waiting for the ultrahive, and then probably getting treated in the same field hospital in between debriefings / interrogations) and we might see some kind of giant grey fuzzy thing bonding.

High handless five.
>>
No. 79994 ID: 041c8f

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q2zg6ue3ctx7o5l/9Fmm8kyCGN

Okay this is my first test of HTML 5.
I must say while it dose grant some options it takes about 3 times as long. And I don't have an easy file to keep track of it. I may go back to power point but I haven't decided.

Please point out any bugs.
>>
No. 79995 ID: 041c8f

no that did not work well at all.

but I learned a bit about html so at least I got something out of it. I will go back to what I was doing.
>>
No. 80000 ID: 59ae70

>>79995
The reason it didn't work is ../../Chapter 1/000Backward.png the images that it wants are missing and it wants them from 2 directories back in this instance, in another it wants em one directory back where it says ../ASDASSFASFASFJKSADFJ.png, also your images aren't there. That quick fix on it + moving it off dropbox and it should work fine, (They appear to have fucked up everything on dropbox's end.) keep up the good work.
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No. 80001 ID: 4f50b9

>>79994
I think dropbox is not suited to distribute html documents.
if you put them on a freehoster (e.g. bplaced.net etc.), they would be directly viewable with a browser and images could be displayed.
within the source code I noticed you use multiple style-sections with the same content within one document and during all documents.
outsourcing the CSS with a CSS-File would make this easier.
An error is that you have copied the closing section of the head multiple times. please only one </head> per <head>. ^^
I also think refering to the files via direct link e.g. to http://www.tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/src/132817546037.png might be better then mirroring them on your dropbox or freehoster.
Then, never place elements behind the body-closing tag.
Also spacer-images are usually unnecessary.
p001.html would then look like this:

phi [dot] pf-control [dot] de/KB/p001.html

I tried to post the source-code, but I was apparently banned for a blacklisted link somewhere... maybe I chat about that later...

so for now, replace [dot] with . and look at the source code of the html and css.

I made a combination from your first and third file here to show title and content formatting.
Then making a new page is only copy-pasting the plain text into the content-section, replacing line-ends with br-tags and adapting the forward and backward link and adjusting the image-source.

I would advice to not use this fancy editor you use as it seems it made a lot of rubbish between useful parts... a plain text-editor like notepad++ works probably much faster for you, too, in this case!
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No. 80200 ID: cee89f

So, I have a theory on why Rokoa is still with her hive... for a wide enough definition of 'theory', anyway.

Rokoa's name, empathically and literally, means to carry on through extreme suffering like it's nothing at all, and after her mother trained her she started to embody that idea. So in essence, pain and discomfort doesn't mean anything to her. She's not going rogue because she doesn't care about any of the things that normally make someone go rogue (discomfort with the hive's empathy, conflicting personalities, etc).
>>
No. 80207 ID: 041c8f

>>80200

Yeah pretty much on the same vibe there. That just about sums up what we've seen of her.
>>
No. 80275 ID: a97618

Slight causality problem with the end of Belnos thread 3, there.

>>/quest/567029 has Sevener claiming our stage 7 keycard, and saying she's going to invite Arbiter to use it.

But, way back here here >>/questarch/477255 we had Corruptor pull arbiter out of the not-actually-a-CAI-battle with the intent of collecting his logs.
>Arbiter and, for safety's sake, about 10 others that are currently ghosts in the CAI but otherwise living outside of it will cut out to get his logs.
Presumably this would have necessitated taking the stage 7 keycard with him.

By >>/questarch/478274 Arbiter has already collected his logs, but doesn't have time to relay them to us.

So... either something needs a retcon, or Sevener didn't know Arbiter already had his logs (no way she could have, really) and we somehow glitched another keycard into inventory. Or we forget to give him the keycard when he left and the message from 478274 was faked by corruptor or something.
>>
No. 80276 ID: 04b86a

>>80275
I had assumed that Sevener had grabbed the stage 6 keycard that's registered to Alison but given the bit about how getting Arbiter's logs "may not be happening" I might be mistaken.
>>
No. 80278 ID: a97618

>>80276
Oh. Doy. Yes, if that's Alison's keycard, that makes sense. Going back and checking, Radmin dropped his when we killed him too. Keycards drop when the user dies.

So Sevener just claimed the useless trophy loot we dropped (no one else can use our keycard) and then extended an offer to talk with Arbiter (whether or not knew he already has his logs).

This is what I get trying to look for plotholes at 2 am after driving home in a snowstorm.
>>
No. 80318 ID: 32f812

Would anyone be willing to give a quick recap of pre-CAI battle events? It's been a while.
>>
No. 80319 ID: d470e9

There is a summary at http://tgchan.org/wiki/Unnatural_Selection

It is only somewhat proofread/QA'd, so if there is information that is missing/wrong, please let me know.
>>
No. 80320 ID: 0ee153

After rereading parts of the archives, mostly the first thread:

Was the bird symbol on Hok's goggles ever explained?

Did we ever find out who Nokshra was?
>>
No. 80321 ID: 0ee153

>>80320
Beyond the "anti-Iron Cove emissary" bit, that is.
>>
No. 80322 ID: d470e9

>>80320
Nope. That hasn't come up since the first thread (possibly yet.)
>>
No. 80579 ID: 32f812

A specific question that just occurred to me: in ITQ VIII, Lukratsa talked about neumono decapitations and said this:

>If you do find your head is coming off, then, well, you've got a 0.6% chance that you are going to remain in your head. Every once in while there is so much brain in your head that you will actually become that charred puff of smoke flying off to traumatize fellow teammates and basically not make use of the fact that you are neumono, and can continue almost-not-really functioning without your head.

What does that mean, exactly? Is there a certain threshold of brain loss that's impossible to recover from, like with regular injuries? And neumono self-awareness/sapience resides in the largest brain chunk?
>>
No. 80580 ID: 57a559

I got to thinkin' more about the potential threat the hive brings and why we got Pilon and it's kinda dark.

I realized that Pilon is kinda like Schindler and the hive are Nazi's and I got a little uncomfortable.
I mean, we don't even know what the hive does to rogues really. Do they execute them? Make them wander around until no one will take them in? Imprison them? If so, where?

Some dark ass shit is happening on this asteroid and it ain't even because of the criminal element. It's that legit element of the neumono hive that's the darkest. Everything else, at worst, at Godfather or Scarface levels (Zozu arc). Or The Warrior (also Zozu arc). Or Heat (current arc) Or Boyz in the Hood (no arc associated, just imagining life for teenagers and kids born on the asteroid). Or Cop Land, I guess for the Iron Cove arc.
>>
No. 80592 ID: 0ee153

>>80590
We're getting a bit in-depth for ITQ, so let's take this here.

Teleportation technology exists. APHE rounds are not capable of penetrating everything. Put both ends of your teleports under a few dozen feet of bedrock. One guy with reflex boosters and fancy weaponry is irrelevant again. High-tech weapons are easily countered by other high-tech gadgetry, just like it is today.

Also, I'm fairly sure smartmatter rounds are beyond current capability. I believe bio-armor is the cutting edge, and that takes, what, an hour-plus to fully adapt to a new wearer. The "smartmatter" you're describing is essentially jetalium in regard to its capabilities, and jetalium is long lost. What we have now can't compare and almost certainly won't make for good APHE rounds, just because it can't adapt fast enough.

Sure, you could use different kinds of preprogrammed smartmatter, but by that point, why not just use normal APHE with steel alloy and explosives? It'd have about the same results.

The problem with sniper shotguns is a larger cross-section and more air resistance, less accuracy, all that fun stuff. Sure, you could slap on a guidance system, but then that's just a smart missile. You wouldn't need a sniper shotgun to fire a smart missile, since it can just aim itself.
>>
No. 80593 ID: 0ee153

Or, as a tl;dr:

Hi-tech counters hi-tech. Sure, hi-tech beats lo-tech most of the time, but that's not new.

The space tech-wizardry you want would require jetalium, and we don't have that anymore.

Sniper shotguns might just as well be guided missiles.
>>
No. 80642 ID: 6adc92

>>80593

Yeah, pretty much.
I mean, most tank cannons are essentially just big smoothbore tubes that shoot really big rifled slugs. Some of them even do end up shooting missiles, it's just that missiles are expensive and therefore you want the adaptability of being able to fire more than just your most powerful payload. Canister and flechette shells, for example, which basically turn tanks into fuckhuge single-barreled shotguns.
The Russians did the same thing with the KS-23, and a lot of other countries with other shotguns, because they decided the versatility of a man-portable shotgun that could fire small grenades was equally valid as a mounted automatic grenade launcher that could level small buildings.
I think the main downside of a heavy payload cannon ala X-COM/Tozolquest is that even if you could steroid-and-gene-therapy-buff someone to the point where they could hold the thing, ammo cost, accuracy, and sustainability in field conditions would drag it down. It'd have to be lightweight, fire common rounds, and be adaptable as hell to stand a chance. But with Neumono need for firepower and the setting's booming experimental tech, it seems plausible. Not remotely likely, but plausible.
There's a niche for everything, I 'spose.
It is also horribly, terribly silly. But silly is fun, even for us neurotic detail-lovers, and I think it was Polokoa who inspired the whole shebang to begin with so yeah.
>>
No. 80860 ID: 824f43

>>80855
As of the start of Polo quest, they hadn't heard from him since he'd left. And in his defense, his uselessness was partially due to being injured, and partially due to Polo being kind of abrasive and figuring out how to deal with her silence around non-hivemates for the first time, at his expense. In retrospect, we really could have handled that better.
>>
No. 80862 ID: 2c6ff1

>>80860
He was also kindof a bad soldier though.
>>
No. 80863 ID: d2995c

>>80862
Is Rikek a soldier to begin with? I thought he was just some guy who was along for a giant bird hunt.
>>
No. 80869 ID: 66c5cb

>>80860

I don't know; Polo seemed less abrasive then practical, from what I can remember. I mean, she wasn't exactly extremely kind either, but she didn't blame him for attacking her (twice?) under the predator's influence, and provided for/protected him without complaint.

I mean, even if she seemed a bit cold, you can't exactly blame Polo for not being entirely friendly when his lack of trust of her/naive touristy curiosity were the reasons they almost got killed several times. Plus, them being from different hives probably didn't help either.

>>80863

According to the wiki, he was a tourist with some military experience who was ostensibly the best of his hive.
>>
No. 80871 ID: 824f43

>>80863
>Is Rikek a soldier to begin with?
He served in a mixed species force back on whatever world his hive is from ( >>/questarch/392414/ ). He wasn't a career soldier though, and he was definitely on the homeworld as a tourist.

I think part of his problem was a big fish in a small pond deal. He was hot stuff back home, but very much small fry once he got where the real action was. He certainly wasn't prepared for stuff that gave someone with years of essentially special forces training trouble.
>>
No. 80872 ID: 66c5cb

>>80871

Polo had never had any actual combat experience before that either; she had done some simulations, but nothing real yet.
>>
No. 80873 ID: 824f43

This is moving into more discussion and less questions, so from itq to dis I go.

>>80869
>Polo seemed less abrasive then practical
I won't argue that how she handled the situation wasn't appropriate. But in retrospect, it's something that could have been handled better. For instance, there was no real need to have stayed silent around him as much as we did (when there's no tactical advantage to having it on, it really just served to isolate him).

We've certainly done better with the members of our current expedition (at least in terms of keeping moral and confidence up). Although I suppose by the time Rikek recovered and was in a place where Polo could have actually tried to help him, she was rather involved with her own problems (to put it lightly).

Dunno, it just strikes me as a missed opportunity.

>>80872
Yes, she was green. Still, she had been training for years for infiltration type missions- surviving alone and cut off for potentially extended periods of time. Obviously training isn't as good as hands on experience, but in this case, her training was a hell of a lot more relevant than what experience Rikek had. Heck, the expected contingency plan in case they missed their extraction was literally for Polo to survive on her own and for Rikek to get killed ( >>/questarch/391752/ and >>/questarch/391753/ ).

He was in over his head. Granted, he chose to put himself in that position, but my impression was he really had no idea how far how far he'd end up in over his head till it actually happened.
>>
No. 80876 ID: 66c5cb

>>80873

Fair point. It's understandable why she'd be silent though, since he's from an unfamiliar (albeit friendly) hive. Also, considering that she knows a warhive is moving to take over the territory, being silent would be good to decrease the chance of detection, as well as avoid confusion/loss of time when/if a predator approaches. She did say she didn't expect to encounter one, but considering the amount of creatures on their home-planet who can use some form of empathy, staying silent likely seemed like a good choice at the time.

And yeah, Rikek was in way over his head. As you said though, that was his fault. It wasn't even just the completely unpredictable/unlucky shooting down of the extraction helicopter/salikai weirdness. There was also the windbeast which would have killed him if not for Polo, the attack by the moton which almost killed him, etc. Not bringing a jammer is understandable though, given the supposed rarity of predators and the bulk of jammers at the time.
>>
No. 80981 ID: ca65e6

So... what WAS the correct train of thought to get the correct NPC puzzle answer?
>>
No. 81003 ID: d470e9

>>80981
The basic idea was that NPC2 would have the most evidence favoring it as the exit, but NPC4 couldn't be ruled out with concrete evidence (for example, a red NPC saying NPC4 was the exit.)

NPC9's line was saying that more ambiguous evidence was better than less, and in 2 and 4's case, all the evidence was ambiguous since neither could be explicitly proven to be the exit or to not be the exit. Hence, NPC8 was effectively saying that more evidence was better. However, since NPC9 was red, it was a lie - less evidence was better in truth. Since the exit could only have been 2 or 4, the less reasonable choice was the correct one.

I fear I may have flubbed the wording to really get this to be a clean case (and I do think I could have done a better job with the ambiguity of an npc talking about either x number of NPCs or NPC X), but there is also a reason why I accepted a single suggestion for NPC 4 rather than the popular suggestion of 2.
>>
No. 81033 ID: 6adc92
File 139803372702.jpg - (200.03KB , 900x450 , c65.jpg )
81033

Lagotrope. You are awesome. You handle your characters' relationships in a tasteful and interesting way, and your characters have reasonable if complex positions about things like sex and romantic relations.
But I have to do a bad thing now. I know how quickly this could degrade, but it must be shared. I foolishly followed a link in /tg/ to our -chanless brethren and found... silly things.
Warning,very NSFW.
http://en.inkei.net/tits/Rokoa!Polo![/spoiler]
http://en.inkei.net/vagina/a/Kappi!Rokoa![/spoiler]
I shall now commit sudoku for my shameful lewdness.

>>81023
Also, I entirely support Neumono Broadway.
It'd work better than TV drama, at least. I think you'd still have to find Neumono who can control their empathy or fake emotions to a passable level. Then the problem is, if your actors are good enough, you now have the very real problem of your audience literally being drawn into the performance.
>>
No. 81034 ID: d470e9

>>81033
Thank you very much for the compliments, I'm glad my awesome is at a positive, non-zero number.

Although I should mention that the body part simulator has been discovered and just about every major character has been ran through it (and I am amused by the accuracy here, or at least the fact that it's not wildly inaccurate).
>>
No. 81058 ID: f7246f

In celebration of adding yet another feature to tgchan_blick, I decided to spam my favourite quest holder's discussion-thread with a byproduct.

In case you don't know about the new feature:
http://www.tgchan.org/kusaba/meep/res/24283.html#26162
In short: it can generate pdfs from a template and a quest within a couple minutes.

So, to create a questdis-relation, please take a look at april-polo-quest-6 PDFs:

scientific template:
http://sta.sh/0dyl0dwu9gt
bigthumb template:
http://sta.sh/0cm20i2lbyt

( :cockpix: can't upload pdfs here...)

>>
No. 81069 ID: 824f43

>>81058
Even though they aren't listed as a supported filetype, you can upload pdfs to the board, actually. Although you don't get a thumbnail.
>>
No. 81074 ID: f7246f

>>81069
really? I tried on /meep/ and it was rejected, so I didn't bother trying on /questdis/ ^^
>>
No. 81226 ID: 8a8d29

Hey, so, you might have noticed that Polokoa Quest update there literally took months. Partly, that's because I'm in the last half of the last year of my degree course now, but also it's partly because this ship battle section hasn't gone the way I naively envisioned it. Each "turn" has so much going on that the updates are large and complicated, and they're not as much fun as I hoped. So it's coming to an end a little abruptly.

It's not like it's going to have been useless, though, the section and the choices made therein are going to have their effect, contingent on how the continuing quest plays out. I'm just letting you know why I'm calling it back, in hopes that the updates will be quicker and easier to manage now.
>>
No. 81228 ID: ca65e6

>>81226
Good call. Complexity does not always serve a quest well...
>>
No. 81239 ID: 824f43

>>81226
That's fine. Getting to do a star trek style micromanagement of ship resources thing was interesting, but it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that would hold up over 10s of turns.

>the choices made therein are going to have their effect
I'm seriously amazed we're now seriously discussing the lasting implications and effects of serious planning and decision making in Polokoa Quest. It's kind of staggering.
>>
No. 81304 ID: 0ee153

>>81296
Responding here because not ITQ, blah blah. Fair enough about being more itnerested in their opinion.

But AsteroidQuest is fairly realistic. There's no Hulks lifting impossible amounts of weights, the alien biologies are given fairly plausible explanations, and the brain darts are justified by how neumono regeneration has been explained to work. Real, no. Realistic, fairly. It's pretty plausible stuff so long as you set it a few centuries in the future and don't stare really hard at the technobabble.

Compared to most D&D universes, where stuff works "because magic lol", I'd say it's not all that fantastical.
>>
No. 81309 ID: cee89f

>>81304
*shrug* Fair enough.

>>81226
Ah, and here I thought Polokoa was already at the core.

Experimenting is nice, but it doesn't always work out. No biggie.

>>81239
>I'm seriously amazed we're now seriously discussing the lasting implications and effects of serious planning and decision making in Polokoa Quest. It's kind of staggering.
And super awesome!

I wonder if we'll have another chapter where we face Rokolo using four stripes as a mount...
>>
No. 81319 ID: 0ee153

>>81309
I'd rather use a tank as a mount. Mostly because I always wanted to know how big a jetpack you would have to use to get a tank airborne for more than a second and Polokoa Quest seems like a good place for that question.
>>
No. 81320 ID: cee89f

>>81319
But you can't put a tank in power armor =(

I guess Rokoa could be riding the tank...
>>
No. 81369 ID: 32f812

>all the beautiful worldbuilding in ITQ
I have to ask, Lagotrope: how much of this did you already have thought out, and how much is made up on the spot? Is formulating answers to the questions as much of a discovery for you as it is for us?
>>
No. 81375 ID: d470e9

>>81369
There's some questions that overlap with questions of previous times, or just outright questions asked multiple times.

Otherwise, I ultimately spend either no time or little effective time planning out anything in advance. So, yes, each round of ITQ generally requires me to do more than grab snippets out of alltheinfo.txt.

The quests themselves are adventures in trying to keep internal consistency intact.

For the record, I do not recommend this.
>>
No. 81377 ID: 0ee153

>>81375
>For the record, I do not recommend this.

For the record, I do. This is basically what I do for my Pathfinder campaigns. It works out great if your players like sandbox campaigns and you're a decent bullshitter.
>>
No. 81400 ID: 32f812

>>81375
Hm, so you write by the seat of your pants for the quests too? I suppose that does explain why Unnatural Selection tends to tread water sometimes. It's certainly interesting to see how the stories spontaneously evolve, though. When Asteroid Quest and/or Unnatural Selection are finished, would you be willing to do something like a post-mortem where you talk about your thought process during the story, how and to what extent reader suggestions influenced the direction of things, etc.?
>>
No. 81401 ID: d470e9

>>81400
Yes, I'll be giving a post-mortem.
>>
No. 81404 ID: a95b2e

>The quests themselves are adventures in trying to keep internal consistency intact.
Weirdly enough, from a suggestor participant position, I actually find that kind of part of the fun. Trying to be keep an eye on internal consistency is another way to be involved, and keeps the paranoia we actually need sometimes in practice (plot holes, pit traps, same skill, right?). And poking at possible holes in consistency often leads to having to fill in more background and information than we'd have anyways. (And it really does interesting things in UnSe).
>>
No. 81428 ID: 32f812

I think it's fun from the perspective of a player/suggester, but the overall story does tend to suffer. Lagotrope's good, but he can't always juggle everything, especially in complex stories like Unnatural Selection. So we get weird things like Glitcher seeming to die for real in a dramatic, emotional sequence, then offhandedly revealing him to have survived before the thread is even over. Or the "CAI battle" in thread 6, which seemed to just be random junk with no importance to anything? It can get a little confusing sometimes.

I probably have a different perspective than most people because I don't make suggestions and just treat quests as webcomics. I'm boring like that.
>>
No. 81430 ID: d470e9

>>81428
It is true, though. While there is often some amount of jank as a result, UnSe specifically has suffered from convolution the most, by far.

My biggest issue I had to date though was the cai battle. Scrapping the first part in favor of the belenos arc was clumsy, but the belenos arc itself took far, far too long for what it was supposed to accomplish.

It's a lot of hit and miss, and that is why I took advantage of the idea that some admins would want to do something extreme about the severe power/CU abuse. While loopholes could possibly still be exploited at times, for the most part escalation will be avoided so that the misses can easily be dropped and the story and stages will still move on without much of a hitch. That, and so puzzles can be focused on one at a time so that I can advance the stages/stories more smoothly until I can get a finish line that isn't "and halfway through stage 8 suddenly the cai power accidentally shuts off everyone dies the end."
>>
No. 81466 ID: 32f812

>My biggest issue I had to date though was the cai battle. Scrapping the first part in favor of the belenos arc was clumsy, but the belenos arc itself took far, far too long for what it was supposed to accomplish.

That was originally supposed to be the real CAI battle? What made you change your mind? (And yeah, the interlude was really long. Focusing on how it was a simulation drew some nice parallels to Alison's own situation, but the simulation within a simulation thing was needlessly convoluted, I think.)

The system reboot is certainly... interesting. It looks like saving multiple people through overloading is no longer possible - and to twist the knife, unless an Absorb equivalent shows up soon, it looks like death is permanent. Anyone have any long-term plans on how to turn this to our advantage? I suppose we could purposefully aim for a tie here and see if we'll have more luck on the tiebreaker match, but it said that would only allow for one survivor too. Worrying.
>>
No. 81471 ID: 0ee153

>>81468
>and England
Yeah, like England is at all relevant on a global scale or the only other Anglophone country. Nationalism aside, OOC I'd guess that linguistics isn't Lagotrope's cup of tea and he decided to make the language he was most familiar with the common language.

In-universe, though, English is already the lingua franca on Earth. Given how badly Esperanto went, it'd make more sense to use a preexisting common language than to try to make another synthetic language with no guarantee of success.

As to why a human language instead of a belenos language was used, I think the humans found the belenos instead of the other way around and presumably had more space-mounted guns.
>>
No. 81474 ID: d470e9

>That was originally supposed to be the real CAI battle? What made you change your mind?
I forget what my process was, but I think it was a mix between not liking the original cai battle, and being tempted to use it to do some universe building on other planets.

>I'd guess that linguistics isn't Lagotrope's cup of tea
This is correct, but even if it were, I don't think it has a place in here.

Aside from bits and pieces and specific characters for shenanigans, having a constant language barrier isn't something that I wanted to deal with on any big scale. I'd rather have the majority of characters be able to interact in ways that aren't awkward. So I only worry about languages a step or two higher than, say, Dragon Ball Z or Megas XLR which, iirc, simply had no explanation to why all the aliens spoke fluent english.

I haven't thought about whether america/britain even exists at the current year in quest, rather just say that english persisted whether or not the english speaking nation did. For all I've thought about it, all of earth is Australian now. Realistically though, several hundred years or more into the future, english could be expected to have changed significantly, so to say that asteroid-verse speaks the same english that we do is implausible in its own regard.

Originally I was thinking of just saying that everyone speaks a different language, and it's just presented as english for presentation purposes. Which could have worked, perhaps even been preferably in hindsight, but that boat has sailed.

In short, some things are handwaved. Some things should have been handwaved, such as making a separate time layout for belenos - more realistic as it may be, '18 belenos minutes' means very little to anyone, and having to resort to a chart frequently is hardly fun. And useless, when the simulation could have just pretended belenos was on earth time.
>>
No. 81533 ID: 0ee153

>>81531
Discussion because not ITQ-relevant, yada yada

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think a species that forgot everything would have survived long enough to evolve intelligence and keep reminders around. Unless the regeneration is more recent than sapience.

I think inhibiting neuroplasticity might also inhibit the healing process, but don't quote me on this, I based that on a quick Google search.

Either way, it'd require research to get definite answers and I vaguely remember someone saying there hadn't been much chance to study voklit.
>>
No. 81680 ID: 32f812

Unnatural Selection question: Did the system reset eliminate absorb chains too, or are those still intact?

Furthermore: At the end of the belenosian interlude, Alison's stream of consciousness after dying resumes at what seems to be a far later point than where the quest is currently at... yet she talks to people early in thread 10. Is this an intentional inconsistency, or just a result of the quest veering off in a different direction?
>>
No. 81681 ID: c170fd

>>81680
I think the latter point is easily explained by Sevener having spoken to Alison in her dream while she was off-camera with Glitcher.
>>
No. 81685 ID: d470e9

>Did the system reset eliminate absorb chains too, or are those still intact?
Those are still intact, but no more absorption chains can be made.

>At the end of the belenosian interlude, Alison's stream of consciousness after dying resumes at what seems to be a far later point than where the quest is currently at... yet she talks to people early in thread 10. Is this an intentional inconsistency, or just a result of the quest veering off in a different direction?
I don't think it's either. It was after Sevener ran around to pick up arbiter and find out what was going on, but before she spoke to anyone on her side still in stage 7 safe zone. Correct me if I said something grossly inconsistent, but I don't believe there is, just some vague passages of time.
>>
No. 82226 ID: 7f9410

I wonder if the special rock of the container is fossilized Jetalium.
>>
No. 82235 ID: 6507c5

I wonder if the next part is going to be Rokoa x Kappi hardcore training montage, with Kappi just trying to survive. After all, who doesn't love a montage?
>>
No. 82236 ID: aad366

All hail Kappi; Future Ultraking of the Asteroid Tradehub.
>>
No. 82282 ID: c7a241

>Belenosian video game difficulty levels
I'm assuming the full list would look something like this:

Toya (super easy)
Organic
Cyborg
Robot
Jetal
Noble
Emperor (hard mode)
<material> Emperor (various harder challenge modes)
Jetalium Emperor (hardest of the the crazy impossible hard suffering mode).
>>
No. 82293 ID: 32f812

I'm not sure if ITQ or something would be better for this but I don't believe this has ever been answered: Was the intermission intended as a prequel from the start? How would things have changed if readers had decided to kill Rokoa? I recall at least one person theorized that if Rokoa died it might mean the asteroid was some kind of spiritual purgatory - would you have ever considered going in that direction, or would it be too fantasy for this sci-fi universe?
>>
No. 82294 ID: 0ee153

>>82293
If we'd decided to kill Rokoa, I suspect one of her clones would have shown up instead. I had assumed that was what they were for- covering the possible plothole, since I doubt Lagotrope would give us the chance to kill a character confirmed to exist in the future without having a backup.
>>
No. 82297 ID: d470e9

>Was the intermission intended as a prequel from the start?
Nope.

>Would you have ever considered the asteroid being a spiritual purgatory, or would it be too fantasy for this sci-fi universe?
While there are some fantastical elements (mostly psychic elements) an afterlife or magical spells or whathaveyou won't be in asteroidverse.

>since I doubt Lagotrope would give us the chance to kill a character confirmed to exist in the future without having a backup
Your doubts are misplaced.

While the thought of a clone occurred to me during the intermission, I didn't decide on that until after Rokoa was confirmed to live.

Having the option to kill Rokoa was an exceedingly reckless thing for me to decide to do, and I'm exceedingly glad a solid majority opted to spare her.

>How would things have changed if readers had decided to kill Rokoa?
I don't know, but the future would have had more lagotrope tears.

It's possible there would have been an asteroid reboot with no Rokoa - early on in the, quote, "intermission" I was considering abandoning asteroid main entirely and calling Polo quest the main quest. In fact, I did abandon AQ for a few weeks before one or two people went 'no don't' and then I didn't. Obviously that did not happen at all, but discarding the first thread and starting it over could have been an option. Although that didn't happen either, there are a few glaring inconsistencies from the first thread.
>>
No. 82306 ID: 32f812

Hah, well, Polo Quest still has more than twice as many threads as Asteroid Quest, so maybe it is worth a rename. :p

Personally I'm glad Rokoa was spared too. She's just such a great foil to Polo. Without her, Polo Quest would be a lot less interesting.

>It's possible there would have been an asteroid reboot with no Rokoa

So wait, had you decided on it being a prequel by then? You could have always said it was a sequel to leave Rokoa alive for AQ if you wanted.
>>
No. 82316 ID: 3914b5

>Having the option to kill Rokoa was an exceedingly reckless thing for me to decide to do, and I'm exceedingly glad a solid majority opted to spare her.

The merciful option is almost always more interesting/rewarding and you have a way of making appealing characters.

Besides, almost everyone enjoys continuity/cameos.
>>
No. 82334 ID: d470e9

>So wait, had you decided on it being a prequel by then?
I believe so. I can't remember why I decided it couldn't have been a sequel, but I did establish at the start that the intermission took place 70 years after neumono contact. I can't recall if AQ1 already established itself as ~120 years after neumono contact, but either way, all I remember is that yes, I decided it was a prequel.
>>
No. 82336 ID: 410c24

>>82334
Dunno when the decision making process happened between Lago's ears, but from a reader perspective, the hard number of years between Intermission and AsteroidQuest weren't confirmed until Rokoa commented in itq ( >>64783 ). And Pilon confirmed the first contact date here ( >>65386 ). And those posts didn't happen till Polo Quest.

Although prior to that, we did know first contact happened only a few decades before the Intermission (I think Chee was actually the first to mention it, here? >>50716 Although she rounds 70 down to "about 50"). And we'd pretty much made up our minds that the intermission was in the past while it was running, although we didn't know how big the time gap was.

>if Polo killed Rokoa
>I was considering abandoning asteroid main entirely and calling Polo quest the main quest
Part of me is amused we could have focused the plot even further on Polo if we were willing to have her make a terrible personal decision.

Because, really, Polo was at her worst when she was on that revenge trip. It would not at all have been good for her to follow through. ...and I think it would have been a pretty ugly emotional blow to find out the warhive hadn't killed her hive from Rokoa's note after wasting her. Polo would have effectively given into her worst impulses and then had it rubbed in her face that it was for nothing. Or at least, for much smaller reasons.

From a plot perspective, then Rokoa wouldn't have introduced us to Korli and the easy route to the comm center and setting up our evac and the attempted truce, and we wouldn't have been in a position to help / neutralize the warhive either (possibly we could have still ended up on board, but it would probably have had to be with the salikai strike force). Honestly, we'd have had a much harder time getting out unless we allied with Vanski and Ohidi, and if anything about Vanski's character or goals were already set by that point, that probably would have gone badly.

Honestly, I think the tone would have ended up a lot darker for Polo, and I think it's unlikely we would have kept the body count as low as we did.

>Polo and Rokoa
But stepping back from the hypotheticals, I rather like how things turned out. If Asteroid 1 had been rebooted or discarded, we'd have one main character. As is, we have two. When they're together, the story is shaped by their conflict or cooperation, and when they're apart, a surprising amount of each of their stories is shaped by the other's absence.

And complicating that is the fact that Rokoa ends up feeling like one of two main characters despite the fact we've never even controlled her directly (except by CAI proxy). She's a force we don't fully control, that shapes the story and characters around her.
>>
No. 82338 ID: 3e2018

>>82336
>Honestly, I think the tone would have ended up a lot darker for Polo, and I think it's unlikely we would have kept the body count as low as we did.

Acknowledging that it's a non-Lagotrope source, that is basically how it went down in one (of many) alternate timelines. See: >>75783
>>
No. 82364 ID: 32f812

By the way, I found this the other day:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Roleplay/UnnaturalSelection
>>
No. 82367 ID: 60700b

>>82364
also this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Roleplay/AsteroidQuest
>>
No. 82368 ID: 95170a

>>82364
>>82367
>>created and DM'ed by Lagotrope on the /tg/ board of 4chan.
>>of 4chan
GOD.FUCKING.DAMMIT.
>>
No. 82369 ID: 0ee153

>>82368
>>
No. 82370 ID: 0ee153

>>82368
Great, my connection failed midpost and now it's telling me I have the incorrect password. If a mod could delete the earlier post I'd appreciate it.

Anyway, if you care so much you can edit it yourself. Last I checked, accounts were automatic.
>>
No. 82371 ID: 95170a

>>82370
Its the principle of the thing.
And I'm fucking lazy so sod that.
>>
No. 82372 ID: 0ee153

>>82371
Fair enough.
>>
No. 82373 ID: 410c24

>>82338
Yeah, Rokolo's timeline is noticeably darker in tone, and fits with the being forced to make bad decisions between worse options when caught between too many warring factions, thing.

Even Polokoa's universe initially has a worse ending to the intermission, though. ("the majority of Rokoa and Polo's hives were killed"). Even if things arguably get a lot better later (although that's debatable, since we don't know how everything goes in the canon universe yet).

>>82364
>>82367
Way too focused on certain characters and events. (How many tropes cite Glitcher's death? Or Chief changing sides, despite the fact UnSe is basically "recruit and save everyone, the quest"?.

Nevermind the actual factual inaccuracies, or things that are not actually quite right as written. (Just because neumono can survive decapitations, doesn't mean many do! Decapitations aren't exactly common, and all fuzzballs aren't super-soldiers who shrug off damage, and you kind of need a lot of medical care. And it wasn't a lie that Sealock got nuked- they did. There was just a convenient omission that they had time to evac before the bombs fell. Griping, etc).
>>
No. 82374 ID: fb9a0e

>>82368
Well, looks like there's some work to do.

How to define /quest/, by the way? "The /quest/ board which spun off 4chan's /tg/ years ago"?
>>
No. 82375 ID: 0ee153

>>82374
The /quest/ board of tgchan.org, not to be confused with the /tg/ board of 4chan.org?
>>
No. 82376 ID: 0ee153

Also, bioarmor functions for species other than neumono and was developed by non-neumono. It's tailored for one species per suit and most popular among neumono, iirc.
>>
No. 82423 ID: 88e77a
File 140276503304.png - (468.11KB , 1600x1420 , pololandevolution.png )
82423

Hey guys, I was away in France for a week, got back on Thursday. I thought I'd be able to make updates while I was there, but I left the charger for my laptop behind. It'll be a while before I can make a Polokoa update, but I'll do some ITQs soon.

In the meantime, how about some pure speculation?
>>
No. 82426 ID: 410c24

>>82423
Hmm. One thing I've actually flip-flopped a few times in my head is the order of the predator / neumono / vernaut divergence.

Obviously, all 3 share a relatively recent common ancestor. But I see a few ways it could go.
(a) non-psychic mammalian ancestor. Diverges into the vernaut line (focusing more on brute physical traits, and the individual) and a proto-empathic line (focusing more on group survival / involvement and mental development) which then diverges into neumono and predators (cooperative versus exploitative applications of the mental / empathic group traits).
(b) Or maybe we start with a psychic ancestor that diverges into neumono and predator lines, but the vernauts come from the neumono side, rather than the predator (a proto-wendigo? Or a related variant- more individual brute strength, even less working in groups, giving up empathy all together).
(c) Or the way depicted above. Ancestor diverges into hunters and cooperatives groups (neumono), and the hunters diverge into the mental hunters (predators) and the physical prowess hunters (vernauts).

I kind of lean towards a (because it doesn't require empathy being selected against / bred out of the vernauts), but they're all plausible without some kind of fossil or genetic record to check against.

(The wendigos are at least easy to place, since they're basically the Neanderthals to neumono-sapiens).

>arkots
I suppose they look kind of lizardly, so it might make sense that puts them closer to the amphibian-like branch than the mammal-like one. (Then there's the lack of well, mams).

I do remember Polo saying way back when they originated from the far north, which would imply they come from a colder climate. Which with their level or jittery activity to me suggests they're probably warm blooded. (...which tells us nothing, since we don't know where or when that trait developed, either).

Evo: the search for fuzzball-Eden
>>
No. 82427 ID: ac14c0

>>82423
Losing regen doesn't make a lot of sense to me in the context of evolution, as it's pretty much always useful. There should probably be a branch without regen before regen was developed. Same goes for losing empathy... unless Vernauts are solitary hunters? If they don't hunt in packs anymore then empathy could be a disadvantage, and would be bred out.
>>
No. 82428 ID: 0ee153

>>82427
Regen does have a drawback- increased calorie consumption. If the drawback starts to outweigh the benefit, losing regen makes sense.
>>
No. 82430 ID: 410c24

>>82427
It could be simply the case of putting the metabolism's resources where they make sense with a species' survival strategy.

Voklit and neumono are social creatures. If they're injured, there's more of a chance for regeneration to work, and have a chance to repair the damage. The group can pick up the slack, and care for / protect injured individuals until they can contribute to the group again.

In a voklit, say, as a lone predator, it might have made more sense to put the body's resources into being a strong and powerful as possible in the first place. Reduce the odds you'll take down your prey or opponent without being injured, rather than deal with injuries when they happen. Even if you could regenerate, that won't help if you're injured and helpless before a predator (little-p) or attacker.

Even in Predators (the species), regeneration might have atrophied due to disuse. If you're working mostly by proxy, the biggest selection factor isn't how well you recover from injury. It's how well you can act by proxy. A lot of the physical resources that fuel regeneration could have ended up being put towards powering mental processing, parallel processing, empathic control, etc. (They put all their points in CnC and nerd).

Regeneration really doesn't make sense for arkot, as their primary survival strategy seems to be a numerical zerg rush. Why invest in a mechanism that increases the odds of survival of a individual, when the strategy is to produce as many disposable individuals as possible? The metabolic resources were probably put into their rapid maturation and reproduction.
>>
No. 82431 ID: 0ee153

>>82430
I agree with the logic, but I'd like to point out that voklit regeneration is considered superior to neumono's in some ways.
>>
No. 82434 ID: 410c24

>>82428
And yes, there's also this. Neumono metabolism has them eating much more often than similarly sized creatures. Scaling that up to something the size of a vernaut might have... issues. Big predators are expensive- they gotta cut the energy costs somewhere.

>>82431
Yes, but 'small' difference in the actual implementation / application of a trait could have been influenced by a lot of factors, and is less easily explained away with big-picture hand-waving and the 'this trait generally suits or would have been selected for this situation or strategy' stuff.

Hard to say why one social biped opted for faster regen and the other more organ redundancy. (Although if I had to guess, I'd say the organ redundancy might be related to the development of the decentralized nervous system and empathic development? Kind of shooting in the dark though).

...although you may just be reacting to a typo I'm now cringing at.
>In a voklit, say, as a lone predator
This should say vernaut, not voklit. I wrote the wrong v-word. :p
>>
No. 82435 ID: 2f4b71

>>82427
>Losing regen doesn't make a lot of sense to me in the context of evolution, as it's pretty much always useful.

But that exact thing has occurred in our own ecosystem. Many animals (e.g. some reptiles and amphibians, echinoderms, etc) can regenerate limbs by forming a blastema, even as an adult organism. But other creatures that evolved from those creatures or their common ancestors have lost that very useful ability, even when they retain it when in the embryonic or sometimes even juvenile stages.
>>
No. 82440 ID: 88e77a

>>82431

I would wonder whether voklit regeneration is actually equivalent or even inferior to neumono, at the cellular level, but just goes faster and better because the lack of redundant organs makes the process simpler.
>>
No. 82485 ID: b14727

Yeah mammals have basically evolved a system precisely to turn off regeneration. Probably because its energy intensive, and slow.
>>
No. 82699 ID: 50338d

>>/quest/579842
>I haven't read through the previous threads
>If King and Alison were like-minded, or great allies
King's actually an ex-admin, who went rogue (around stage three, I think?) and started building up followers overloading stages. He worked with Savior for a bit until he decided he couldn't stand the guy anymore (and that he wasn't getting anywhere), and turned down an invitation to the Corrupted Sanctuary when we and Corruptor noticed him. Alison and co didn't meet him directly until after we'd already broken from Corruptor. Initially we didn't get on so well (both Alison and King wanted things the other wasn't willing to give, but we settled on a kind of frosty non-aggression agreement), but as time went on we ended up working together more and our factions allying.

Philosophically, he's rather different from Alison, actually. Alison's driven mainly by compassion, and a kind of infectious idealism. Her goal at this point is literally to save everyone, for the sake of saving everyone. King, on the other hand, opposes the system not because of what it does, but because it's terrible at doing it. He doesn't want to take down the system- he wants to supplant it, and take over. Do a better job. King, quite simply, wants to be king.

I know that sounds selfish and terrible, actually, but he's far from the worst faction-leader we've met. He doesn't rule by fear, or mistreat his followers. Even if he has a big ego, and is kind of self-absorbed, he was willing to compromise and negotiate, and was even the one who made a gesture to try and make nice, eventually.

Allison and King's alliance was mostly based on a common goal- the toppling of the system, or at least, the status quo. (And the realization the other had resources they needed access to, and that circumstances kind of forced it). What happens after, I don't know. (Personally, if she ever did save everyone, I don't think Alison would particularly care if King set up a kingdom for himself, so long as he wasn't a crazy tyrant about it. She's a leader by necessity, not ambition).

Not to be confused with some other doof called King who just claimed an empty throne for himself in one of the safe zones. >>/questarch/1004046 Who was never mentioned again and probably long dead. (With a trillion contestants and who knows how many more system people and CAI-sim people repeated names had to occur somewhere).
>>
No. 82702 ID: 565be8

I finally finished binging Unnatural Selection.

I'm not sure it has been said before (Unnatural Selection is *huge*), but the only way I see to have everyone survive would be to get in a position of power (which probably involves defeating the CAI, so we still need to remove its "I win" button), change the rules so that everyone survives (or at least, is ghosted), and then trigger one last cycle.

For the sake of contestants getting stronger, we still need to promote competition however. Here's the rule alterations I would propose:

* People still die.
* All ghosts are rez'd (or simply integrated to the CAI with the rest) in the end, including system ghosts.
* Basic absorption, recursive and ghost talk available to anyone for free.
* "Unclaimed" ghosts automatically given to a random winner.
* I'm not sure about allowing rez before the end, but if so, Absorption CU gain always capped to the respawn cost (or even less than that), taking in account whether the target has extra life.
* I'm not sure about overloading exits, but I'm leaning towards yes, as it promotes cooperation.
* And finally, a message to leaders (Corruptor, Alison, etc.) informing them of which cycle it is and on which cycle the rules were changed.
>>
No. 82731 ID: 32f812

Oh man for some reason I didn't check UnSe yesterday and oh man the feels ;_;

Things are indeed looking bleak. Even before the system reset, there were unabsorbed dead people from the very beginning, so it was impossible to save *everyone*. Now, with the removal of the afterlife and exit overloading, things are even worse... I don't know how we're gonna do this unless there's some major game changer coming up.

>the only way I see to have everyone survive would be to get in a position of power
That does seem like the only solution at this point, but how can that be accomplished? It seems like if the contestants beat the CAI they become the CAI, and anyone who didn't make it is permanently lost in the new cycle of cycles. It's possible that dead contestants are recycled in the next contest, but until that's confirmed there's too much risk. (If contestants *are* recycled this would work fine, but...)

We might not need to beat the CAI though. The admins on their own are capable of making sweeping changes (as they've just demonstrated) -- if Alison could supplant their power (or convert them to her side?) she could alter the system to "save everyone" mode without confronting the CAI.

(I'm actually curious about how this option could work narratively. Would the quest simply end on Alison reformatting the contest with the hope that it'll turn out better next time, or will there effectively be a New Game+ mode and we'll start Unnatural Selection 2?)

Alternatively, assuming this is in the Polokoaverse, we just need to wait until the bigger CAI extracts everyone. But that'd be kind of a weird solution since it just involves waiting around until the deus ex machina shows up (and dead contestants might not make the transition).
>>
No. 82732 ID: 2fd516

We could also get to the CAI at the end and break their iwin button but instead of winning we stall the fight and talk. We convince them to re-enable the Dream, then just live there with all the ghosts we've collected. It won't be a pathetic grind of an existence like what Chief went through because that was artificially limited. The Dream has waaaaaay more stuff to do, and more people too. We can insist it be real time and have a feed of what the CAI is doing. Even if it does get boring after like 500 years or whatever we can ask for memory wipes or the ability to breed.
>>
No. 82738 ID: 32f812

That's not what Alison wants, though. Some people will still be permadead. The only way to fix that is to start a new cycle with new rules. However, judging by the logs, she may have tried that in the past and it clearly didn't work...

If we ever reestablish contact with the Corruptor (and we decide he's trustworthy) we should talk about it. Maybe when the current stage is finished we'll have opportunities for long-term strategy.
>>
No. 82743 ID: ca0da5

>>82699
Whoa hey nobody told me this was also a discussion thread for UnSe, barely even saw this just now.
Are there already characters decided upon to use Res Tokens? From what I understood, there are forty of them, and Bones was definitely one of the targets for it, probably also Alison after a certain point, though I don't know if she was killed before the disabling of new deaths going to the Dream. I don't expect some huge exposition on this (If I wanted huge, I'd just go read it myself), but I certainly won't mind if it's several paragraphs.

Also, what exactly is this CAI face? Does the Equals Close-square-bracket face really show up so frequently, or is it something not quite what I noticed?
>>
No. 82745 ID: 50338d

This conversation seems to be ignoring the fact that the system has backups of everyone. Even people who died out of resurrection chains still exist in some form or another in computer memory, or else they wouldn't be there when the loops reset, anyways. Provided we can break things badly enough, everyone, in theory, is savable. (The question, in practice, is how, of course).

There's also the fact that this isn't just a computer simulation happening in isolation forever, anymore. Corruptor's logs pretty much removed all doubt that the CAI in UnSe is the salikai-CAI. The simulation is the thing the salikai are using to control their CAI- the gun they're holding to it's head.

And since the salikai haven't lost control of their CAI previous to the events of Polo Quest, that means we're either in the past and doomed to fail this cycle, or we're right there in the present, with the salikai at war with the ultrahives and Polo coming to infiltrate the shit out the place. That provides an opportunity, but is also gives us another deadline. They aren't winning this war, and there will be only so much time before the power somehow gets cut, or the base gets blown to hell.

>Also, what exactly is this CAI face
It's just the CAI's face! >>/questarch/371648 The asteroid-CAI, at least.

>Are there already characters decided upon to use Res Tokens?
Well, Alison, obviously. Bones, maybe, at this point. Possibly Glitcher or some of our other people who started the stage alive if they get killed, and most likely some number of Alison's friends who died with her after the CAI battle. Iso had wanted to save some people we'd known but lost contact way back, too, but I don't know if we'll get to that.

The way it actually works is there will be 10 people who reach the end of this stage alive, and each is allowed to resurrect 3 people. So we get 40 people total, assuming all 10 survivors are ours.

I'd be tempted to res Pepper, after how close Chief got to her, there. Although if King and/or Mint makes it to the end, they're likely going to take care of that. I'd think any one of the three would revive the other two.

Probably can't afford to spent two slots reuniting goat and timekeeper, cute as that might be.

>If I wanted huge, I'd just go read it myself
Er, I won't argue the merits of trying to step into a huge complicated quest with lots of interlocking pieces without reading the past material, but I'd recommend heading to the wiki page and at least reading the thread summaries, if you haven't already.
>>
No. 82746 ID: ca0da5

>>82745
>I'd recommend heading to the wiki page and at least reading the thread summaries
Hadn't even thought of that, will do.
>>
No. 82747 ID: ca0da5

>>82746
Was a surprisingly quick read, but didn't mention some of the stuff in your exposition, meaning I would have asked it anyways.
>>
No. 82802 ID: 04b86a

I have a question. Didn't Radmin say the hard reboot would strip the administration of all of their privileges? Because it seems like they've been pretty active for people who are powerless to do anything except sit around and hope they aren't eliminated when the brackets merge.
>>
No. 82804 ID: b435c5

>>82747
Hey, the Archive Panic is what kept *me* from binging UnSe for quite some time, and what's still keeping me from reading Story Seeker (for fear that I'd have to read the entire Cheeverse archives to make sense of it).

...I'd need 60-hour days to read everything I'd like to.
>>
No. 82812 ID: 04b86a

>>82810
I didn't read all of your post yet, but there's a pretty big problem with it: there are 10 people, not 9.
>>
No. 82814 ID: 50338d

>>82812
...well fuck.

Excuse me for a moment, I need to add another column and rerun the numbers, then.
>>
No. 82815 ID: 04b86a

>>82810
>>82812
Okay, I read a bit more. You seem to have horribly misunderstood how the point system works.

Let's say that all ten people go to 3. Each person has 27 points, not 81. If nine people go to three and the other person goes to 1, then the nine each have 23 and the person on 1 has 27 points.
>>
No. 82816 ID: d8a627

>>82814
Aw, I wanted to see what the spreadsheet looked like sooner... Kinda wish you hadn't deleted it, just so I could check the logic on it, but don't bother wasting time with a reposting of it, go ahead and finish it all up first.
>>
No. 82817 ID: d8a627

>>82815
>Let's say that all ten people go to 3. Each person has 27 points, not 81. If nine people go to three and the other person goes to 1, then the nine each have 23 and the person on 1 has 27 points.
And it all falls back to Safety Spot Number Two, doesn't it.
>>
No. 82818 ID: 50338d

>>82815
...I, dammit, you're right. Somehow when I read the rules the first time I saw the word times where it wasn't. Fixed.

>>82817
I think so. In my initial model, 3 was only safer than 2 slightly. I suspect with the cooperation bonus corrected 2 will win. I'll have the numbers in a minute...
>>
No. 82819 ID: 2fd516

>>82818
Cooperation in picking 3 assumes nobody picks 1. If even a single person picks 1, they will have more points than everyone who picked 3, and thus those who picked 3 will lose and die.

This is because everyone who picks 3 will get 3*(number of 3's-1) - 1*(number of 1s) + 1*(everyone else), while the person/people who pick 1 get 3*(number of 3s)+1*(everyone else). The ones who pick 1 get AT LEAST 3 more points than the people who picked 3.

I'm not sure about how many people need to pick 2 to make picking 1 a sure loss.
>>
No. 82821 ID: d8a627

>>82818
I hope you're still working on that spreadsheet, because I cannot figure out how to manage it with all three spaces instead of just two at a time.
>>
No. 82822 ID: 50338d
File 140359761348.png - (38.52KB , 885x580 , fixed example.png )
82822

All right, so I made a spreadsheet that models the latest stage in UnSe. You input the number each player picks, and then it tells you everyone's total score. Feel free to download, check my work, or test your own scenarios.

As usually happens when you make spreadsheets after midnight, I messed up the first draft. Hopefully this one works.

https://mega.co.nz/#!J0ECxTCS!YqfPhGyFsTrYn4vq1K7OQUnAiQPii_RvfHvUCgXg9Ik

Let's consider scenarios. (Again) I'll start with some simple ones, and work up from there.

Everyone picks the same number: Everyone scores the same (9, 18, or 27) and everyone lives. Never going to happen, though.

8 people pick 1: If the loner picks 2, everyone scores 9 and lives. If the loner picks 3, everyone else scores 11 and the loner scores -9 and dies.

8 people pick 2: The loner, who picked 1 or 3, earns 9 points. Everyone else earns 17. The loner dies.

8 people pick 3: If the loner picks 2, and scores 9 points, everyone else scores 25. The loner dies.

If the loner picks 1, he scores 27 points, everyone else scores 23. The loner backstabber wins.

It only takes a single bad apple to spoil the barrel, it seems.

Worst case: Chief and Arbiter go 3, everyone else goes 1: Chief and Arbiter each get -5 points. Everyone else gets 13. Meanies win, we die.

3 people vote 3, everyone else 1: The three amigos score 12. Meanies score 14. Amigos die.

This trend continues. With people just playing nice or mean, the meanies always win. But we have to consider what happens when people play safe, too.

Chief and Arbiter go 3 and cooperate, everyone else plays safe with 2: Chief and Arbiter each get 11, everyone else, 16. We die.

Chief and Arbiter cooperate, 1 person goes 1, everyone else play it safe with 2: Chief and Arbiter get 9, The backstabber 13, and the safe people 15. The cautious people live.

Chief and Arbiter cooperate, 2 people go 1, everyone else plays it safe with 2: The cooperators get 7, the backstabbers 13, the cautious people get 14. The twos have it.

Two threes, 3 ones, everyone else 2s: Twos and ones tie with 13, the threes die with 5.

There's no combination where 2 threes win. Chief and arbiter cooperating don't work. But what if someone else joins in?

3 people vote 3, everyone else two: The twos win, 15 to 13.

3 people vote 3, 1 person votes 1, everyone else 2: The one friggen backstaber wins, 15 to to 14 to 11.

This trend continues, unfortunately. For three threes and up, a backstabber who chooses 1 will always win.

Question is, if Chief and Arbiter go 2, can the others still fuck it up?

2 twos, everyone else 1: twos win, 10 to 9. 2 or more twos will always beat a group of all ones.

2 twos, everyone else 3: twos lose, 10 to 23.

7 twos, everyone else 3: twos win, 15 to 3. Less than 7 twos lose to a group of all 3s. The odds of more than 3 people picking 3 are pretty bad, though.

1 person picks 3, 1 person picks 1, everyone else 2: twos win.

3 people pick 2, 1 person picks 3, everyone else picks 1: twos and ones tie.

2 people pick 2, 1 person picks 3, everyone else picks 1: the ones win, finally.

3 people pick 3, 1 person picks 1, everyone else picks 2: the one fucker wins.

Seems to work out that the twos only lose if they're badly in the minority (so they don't get enough same vote bonuses) or a lot of people chose 3. Which is a bad choice on their part, because a group of threes big enough to beat a group of twos can be ruined by a single 1.

>tl;dr
All staying up late a few hours did is confirm two is the safest bet. Unless we assume an overabundance of Allison in the crowd. Then we're going to lose when they all go 3, and/or when a single person back-stabs them with 1.
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No. 82823 ID: d8a627

>>82822
I see... So in the end, you could not automated an entire scoreboard, either. I suppose we would need three dimensions for that to work, which would involve convincing the spreadsheet program to not constantly change where it's reading (Excel might recognize what you're doing, but Google doesn't. I tried). I say screw it, go with two anyways.
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No. 82824 ID: 50338d

>>82823
Yeah, it's just an outcome calculator. It doesn't tabulate all possible outcomes.

If I'd used some other language I could have set up loops or something to check all possible outcomes, but I'd still be left reading through all that, and setting up the loops right would just be another thing to risk messing up. I figured it was easier just to make the calculator and test scenarios that looked interesting, check for tipping points, rather than try everything.

Excel is kind of a pain in the ass for loops, in general. You basically have to cobble them together manually, unless you're doing a 1D array. Really might have been faster to use something else, but I used what I had at hand.

Sorry if it doesn't work on g-docs. They're dark magic as far I'm concerned.
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No. 83113 ID: 3dd384

To clarify this:
>>/quest/582016

The essential nature of the contest as a no-win scenario, as I understand it, is that it is a sandbox. You win, you become the new boss, but you're still confined to the boundaries of the simulation - just playing the other side.

The security strength of a sandbox is that nothing inside it can access anything outside it, so no matter what exploit you find within the system, it will not give you a way out.

That's why a discovery such as the one at >>/quest/581932 is so incredibly vital. Glitcher can operate on data directly. If the data displayed through that book is being accessed from outside the simulation - and evidence implies that it is - then it is the only medium yet encountered by which an exploit can reach outside the simulation and affect the system that controls it. It'd be the missing ingredient spoken of by Glitcher in >>/quest/569460.

And I really hope we haven't lost our only chance to exploit it.
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No. 83185 ID: e607cd

>>/quest/569499
>Is the future deterministic?
>Glitcher says it is, but trying to figure out how it will be would take lifetimes. Real life lifetimes of hundreds of years, not average contestant lifetimes.

Heeeeeey Glitcher. Whatcha been thinkin about?
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No. 83284 ID: 92fe71

Lagotrope, is neumono a portmanteau of neural and kemono?
>>
No. 83288 ID: d470e9

>>83284
No but almost, it's a portmanteau of neural and the prefix mono
>>
No. 83302 ID: d8a627

>>/questarch/1003814
Why is there no fanart on the wiki page of Alison being escorted by both Duelist and Iso, that should be a thing. (Also: Yes, I am backtracking through this all)
>>
No. 83389 ID: d8a627

>>/quest/583197
>before he realized his abilities
...What abilities? He just happened to luck out and find cracks and glitches before any other Leader entity did. I mean, Alison found a few tiny glitches, yeah, but they were fixed immediately and couldn't really be exploited at all.
Except for Smuggler. She's the first player to have successfully tricked a Shopkeep into accepting a white-glove duel.
Anyways, if I remember the lore right, Corruptor and Arbiter were in the same bracket when they encountered Glitcher--or at least, Glitcher and Corruptor were, and their bracket merged with Arbiter by the fourth or fifth stage.
The Corruptor was known as "The Corruptor" back them because of his tendency to exploit glitches in the system, to others, it appeared he was corrupting the data or something. Perhaps before that, he was simply "Long Snake" or something, or perhaps there was a friendly name amongst his crew calling him "Snake King."
Also, thread 5 whoo.
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No. 83390 ID: 76b151

Corrupter has the ability to corrupt the system.In fact he is an extra-systematic entity deliberately placed here to do so.
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No. 83391 ID: dc4b80

Any bugs Alison found were there already and we just abused them. The simulation is buggy because as far as we know the Science hive was trying to make a experimental super Cai by combining several normal Cai creation methods. Also who knows where they got the quantum computer to start with. That and as far as we know if the Salikai do not give the Cai a "antidote" every 3 days something bad will happen. Possibly getting overwritten by Alison and crew or worse.

Savior and Corruptor can actually change the simulations code in different ways because they are special contestant programs injected for some unknown reason. And Glitcher shows up if Corruptor corrupts Savior in the last cycle.

One of the things that Corruptor did to make it so no one would mistake him was break the size limit for his body. Right now Alison is starting to get much larger than usual so we are wondering if its a side effect of something or just cute artistic license.
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No. 83398 ID: 32f812

This is a bit late, but I have a question for Lagotrope: If 1 or 3 was the majority-backed choice for the broken AI filter puzzle, what would have happened?
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No. 83427 ID: d470e9

>>83398
I'm not going to go back and re-tally the points to see how they would have differed, but I wouldn't have fudged anything. If Chief died, then there would have been a character switch. If Arbiter died, then he died and Area 5 might have taken slightly longer with only Emerald to tie in all the belenosians. Either way, they would have been res'd at the end at the cost of, most likely, catatonic's friends, but there wasn't much of a chance of catastrophically failing Stage 7.
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No. 83449 ID: 32f812

Ha, there would have been ANOTHER character switch? It's kind of funny how callously you can treat death in UnSe, it only costs us a few small sacrifices. Kind of like in most video games.

It's occurred to me that Savior's paradise is actually worse than death on a metanarrative level. Normally, character death is a big deal because it permanently (or semi-permanently) removes the character from a story, but with the dream radio ghosts can still participate just fine. Savior's paradise, on the other hand, removes people from the contest permanently, pretty much ensuring we'll never see them again and that they won't any more impact on the plot. It's why I'm kind of on the fence about letting an important character like Iso go. (Of course, circumstances may radically change at the drop of a hat since this is UnSe, so who knows what will happen! It's exciting.)
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No. 83450 ID: 50338d

>>83449
Some of those problems could be circumvented if Iso or whoever was provided with a phone and Savior didn't object. Having agents on our side in his enclave might then be an asset.

Glitcher only said calling Corruptor wasn't an option since he didn't know where he is.
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No. 83451 ID: 2fd516

Hmm.
Corruptor destroys things. Savior protects things. Glitcher changes things.

Alison is just the driving force behind the trinity.
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No. 83453 ID: d8a627

>>83451
King is also special--He replaces.

When Alison first encountered The Corrupter, she Redeemed. When she encoutnered the Glitcher, she Redeemed. Haven't gotten very far into the next stage, when the 3 ressurect tokens are started up, but she does seem to have Redeemed some small parts of King's attitude.
Alison has also redeemed a bunch of system characters.

Alison is therefore, The Redeemer. Her task throughout it all is to ensure everybody is on an equal, compromised level, and she's got some sort of secret ability to grant it.
When Alison first met the Corrupter, he was callous, and not very trusting. He swiftly began to open up to her, though her friendship with Arbiter, who was his first ally, might have helped. When he got his note telling him to kill Alison, he showed his darker side again, but once she escaped, he thought through things and realized his actions were wrong, showing himself to be nice again.
When Alison first met Glitcher, he was apathetic to alliances. In a short(ish) time, however, he opened up, in some small way, to Alison. Hearing that Alison was the enemy did cause him to be afraid of her, but, all the same, he trusted her enough to give her a chance.
When Alison first encountered Chief, they both acted on exaggerated rumors, but Chief not only wasn't angry at her for believing the rumors, but even went out of his way to set himself up immediately as her ally.
The Mongrel was never one to enter an alliance with anybody, and, though he held a grudge against Alison, he did agree to help out Corrupter.
Upon first encountering Radmin, he had already been swayed to her methodology, and simply stuck back to fight her because he wanted to help his other allies. He was Redeemed when Alison first freed Enforcer 9, at the same time she had Redeemed just about everybody in Radmin's bracket.
A bit through Chief's emulation, and a bit through Glitcher's radio, she Redeemed Rulekeeper. While he won't abandon his post, he does feel like he can be friends with Alison. This is much the same as her relationship with Shopkeep.
She even Redeemed Sixer in the course of one meeting, though he almost ran away before Redemption set in.
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No. 83467 ID: e607cd

>>83453
I don't think redeem is the word you are looking for. Every one of those examples, what she is doing is FRIEND. Alison's super power is heart.
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No. 83468 ID: 50338d

>King is also special--He replaces.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, but King's just a rogue admin. No special powers. (Unless knowing how to summon Savior counts, but that's just knowledge).

Corruptor, Glitcher and Savior are the only explicitly 'special' people (two injected entities, and one 'offspring' derived from them). Everything that differentiates everyone else is circumstance and personality.
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No. 83470 ID: 9ccb59

>>83453
>Her task throughout it all is to ensure everybody is on an equal, compromised level
So she's The Mediator.
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No. 83472 ID: 2fd516

>Her task throughout it all is to ensure everybody is on an equal, compromised level
No, that's Bandit's goal. Alison's goal is to "save everyone", but the method of which that is accomplished has changed a couple of times. At first we were trying to get people to cooperate so we could overload all the exits. Then it was to find the backups so that we could resurrect everyone. Then it was to stop the cycles so that people stopped dying over and over and over.
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No. 83488 ID: 761017

Guys, remind me how body mods work, and what their limits are.

Could we make Alison into a jetal again?
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No. 83490 ID: bfdaf0

>>83488
Body mods are static. Switching between two forms would require buying a major body mod each time.
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No. 83497 ID: d8a627

>>/quest/583570
It's been mentioned by Engineer that doing so would be rather difficult. If Alison still has her dreamscape, they might be able to hop over, grab some minerals from the mines, and use their forges to make a camera or two, but it would be difficult and time consuming, for sure.
>>/quest/583577
>Well this looks like the history of whoever created the Cai. Keep reading everything you can about these people because in here somewhere might be the answers to who made you and why.
...Of interest is the fact that the Salikai are amazed by the camera's ability to immortalize a person, and that it gets their imagination running. It's very possible that they were directly responsible, and that Likol, for his musings, was brought in as one of the first members of the CAI.
>>/quest/583581
>so far it doesn't really tell us anything other then so random facts that have nothing to do with the CAI.
I disagree, my belief is that Likol, and potentially others in the pictures, are the CAI.
>>/quest/583591
>1. Find out as much as possible about stage 8 and 9 without making Rulekeeper angry.
That might be difficult, seeing as this cycle is so unique that everything the logs mentioned about them could be pointless. For all we know, the game will throw completely new concepts and gaming zones at us. In such a case, the only way to find out about them is going to make Rulekeep angry.
Of course, if I'm wrong, then it's entirely possible to learn more about it safely.
>2. Find and read every bit of the history of this Neuomono tribe and there Salikai allies.
We might need to see if we can convince everybody to share such knowledge. Swordsbane is likely to help, but we don't know about the others. Maybe SB can send his own guys into Independent/Devotee areas to get the information (Devotees won't stop his group, just Alison's, right?).
>3. Figure out what Iso will be doing if anything while at paradise with Savior. Maybe Glitcher can make a radio so we can keep in touch with him.
I'm tempted to break my habits and suggest he get a pillow with Alison on it. ...Which I just said so habit broken.
Dropping jokes, the radio is probably a good idea. Rulekeep did permit the radio with the dead, so hopefully he'll also permit a radio to those who have "quit" the game (as in any sanctuary).
>6. Introduce Swordsbane to Emerald and such. Also see if Glitcher can identify any of the mystery duplicates.
It might just come out that they're 2:1,000,000,000,000 people that coincidentally chose the shame shape. Unless Emerald was pulled out of the simulation, in which case I guess 2:1T+1.
>>/quest/583646
Is there any proof that Vanski is the one involved in anything? Even if his name comes up, it could be somebody else using his name. Vanski was happy just to have more underlings, and would treat his underlings with great respect, so that they would not rebel and get themselves hurt or killed, which would lower their usefulness. The other Salikai, however... They seemed to be the ones who were interested in furthering things.
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No. 83499 ID: d8a627

>>83488
You know... Maybe having "Jetal" as her form will actually allow morphability inside the "Tier 1" simulation like it did in "Tier 3" and maybe 2. That, and any ghosts she still has might lend her certain strengths as a result. I say it's worth a try.
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No. 83517 ID: 555c19

>I disagree, my belief is that Likol, and potentially others in the pictures, are the CAI.

And didn't the Corruptor's logs refer to a Likol? Even if he's not the CAI, he's clearly important - maybe the programmer?
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No. 83520 ID: 638a22

Okay, I'm going to throw some facts at some of this uncertainly and speculation here.

>Vanski, Likol, etc.
Likol was one of Korli's hivemates. Specifically, he's the guy who saved Polo's and Rokoa's lives suicide bombing the occupied warhive bridge at the end of the intermission.

Korli names him here >>/questarch/476243 . You can also compare his photograph in UnSe, >>/questarch/581932 , with his appearance in the intermission, here >>/questarch/457280 . Same dude, just older.

He was involved in making the CAI. >>/questarch/558033
>Rihhin, Likol and Momu are the CAI handlers. Likol was a developer before he suicided.

We also know the salikai control their CAI with a kill switch that needs be reset on a regular basis. Niam (another science hiver) described it: >>/questarch/502834
>they will die without the salikai. They are an experimental CAI with an inbuilt anti-CAI safe measure, in which the CAI is plagued with a continually growing disease. It would eat the CAI from the inside out, but there is an algorithm that does not cure the disease, but it resets it back to its initial phase. It uses a backdoor to avoid being absorbed by the CAI's personalities themselves. Plainly, the CAI will die if the Salikai are not around to save it.
Now, what do we know of, that is connected to a CAI, and gets reset completely every few (real world) days? The contest simulation everyone in UnSe is trapped in. The implication is that we're the anti-CAI measure.

If we want to extrapolate from there, we can guess why Corruptor and Savior were later implanted in the simulation. Perhaps a desperate science hiver tried to break the control mechanism with a virus (Corruptor) and the Salikai were forced to add a countermeasure (Savior). Maybe the CAI itself introduced one of them, trying to free itself, or keep things stable.

>I disagree, my belief is that Likol, and potentially others in the pictures, are the CAI.
Highly unlikely, considering we can connect those pictures to real world people, and Ben claims that the tech to upload organic minds to computer doesn't exist (and he's 50 years in the future). Or rather, that it hasn't existed since the Belnos nuked themselves back to the stone age thousands of years ago. (And the old Belnos tech wouldn't work anyways, considering both neumono and salikai have fucked up, non-standard nervous systems very different from Belnos brains. The neumono brain is highly non-centralized, and the salikai are friggen bug-mentats who don't sleep).

>Is there any proof that Vanski is the one involved in anything? [...] The other Salikai, however... They seemed to be the ones who were interested in furthering things.
The information we've received in Polo Quest, from multiple sources, would disagree with that. Enemies we've spoken to, intel we've stolen, and people who have escaped all confirm that Vanski is running the show, the driving force behind his faction's decisions. There's also pretty good consensus he's basically gone mad, consumed with his current plans / goals, since Rokoa murdered most his kids in one go. And the fact that all the others, sans Ohidi, are dead would kind of make it hard for them to be doing anything.

>tl;dr
There's really not much doubt that the CAI in UnSe is the CAI the salikai are using in the AsteroidQuest intermission and Polo Quest.

And if you want meta-confirmation, there's the fact Lago's not updating Polo right now because UnSe has to catch up first.
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No. 83522 ID: 3dd384

>>83520
>Now, what do we know of, that is connected to a CAI, and gets reset completely every few (real world) days? The contest simulation everyone in UnSe is trapped in. The implication is that we're the anti-CAI measure.

You make a convincing argument. But here's the part that's got me thinking: if this is the simulation's purpose, what's the purpose of injecting data about the real world into it? Is it a matter of Salikai vanity? A bug? A canary to detect serious attempts to break out of the simulated environment?
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No. 83523 ID: 3dd384

>>83522
Another possibility: an attempt by the CAI to destabilize the usual path of the simulation.
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No. 83525 ID: 638a22

Yeah it's... very hard to say what's by design or not, especially since we have so many players involved. Is an individual attribute of the simulation the contribution of the salikai, a rebelling science hiver, the CAI (trying for freedom and/or to keep things stable and stay alive?), or the system itself, doing what it needs to to serve it's own perpetuation?

Heck, the more significant unknown is why the hell the safeguard had to take the form of more than a trillion AIs being forced to fight to the death. And if that was deliberate, or if the salikai and science hive even know what's going on inside.

Historian speculated the contest simulation was the result of a broken CAI creation process- two different CAIs jammed together (the system and the contestants) >>/questarch/443779 . Maybe the only way to keep one CAI in check is with two CAIs?
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No. 83527 ID: d8a627

>>83520
Wow, okay, that's a lot of stuff, but it's handy info. I've only been reading through UnSe for now, I'll have to give Asteroid a read afterwards.
>There's also pretty good consensus he's basically gone mad, consumed with his current plans / goals, since Rokoa murdered most his kids in one go.
Ah, loss of heirs to the bloodline would counteract the ideals of immortality. It does make me wonder, was he pushed all the way because of the camera's proof that something can be stored eternal, or would he have done it all anyways? I suppose that's too drastic a difference to know.
>if this is the simulation's purpose, what's the purpose of injecting data about the real world into it?
The CAI likely realizes that they've made themselves into the self-improving CAI battlefield: Do remember, "The Creators do not know about us." That likely refers to whoever made the CAI, not the CAI who made the competition. They know that there's a chance they'll eventually lose, so they made the "Second CAI test" in the form of System Administrators, to keep the contestants down, but also included everything they wanted to be kept memorized in the contest, so that even if they did lose, the memories that they were protecting would not be lost.
>the more significant unknown is why the hell the safeguard had to take the form of more than a trillion AIs being forced to fight to the death
There have been theories on this all over the early threads, but it still seems to be the biggest question. The science hive and Salikai definitely don't know about it, as I mentioned above, though, meaning the question comes down to: Did the CAI itself make a trillion contestants, or was it purely an accident? Amongst the trillion contestants are Savior, Corrupter, and Glitcher, two of which were likely intentional, but were the other 1T-3/2 contestants simply added to help prevent their powers from being used to widespread, or what?
Corrupter managed to annihilate the entire game once, sans Alison and Glitcher, so is he really the destroyer? Has Savior ever managed to be a survivor of an annihilated game? I think it's possible that Savior is actually the Anti-CAI measure, put in place to prevent the CAI from accessing its major power, The Corrupter. The Glitcher was made from the presence of the two, meaning he might be an attempt by the CAI to assist The Corrupter, in hopes that he will escape, but either Savior's "Purified" the corrupter or they actually need Savior to be deleted. For all we know, in the CAI's eyes, Savior is Corrupt and Corrupter is Pure.
CONSPIRACIES AHOY.

...What if a trillion contestants isn't how it actually started, and it simply grew quickly to that point? Alison doesn't show up until cycle 12 at the latest, doesn't meet Arbiter until 403 at the latest, and meets Sevener (why did she agree to that name, there are 19 others named Sevener) in cycle 84 for sure.
Yes, the logs suggest that if the Savior is corrupted by the Corrupter, it's bad, but it also suggests that if the Savior quarentines Corrupter, that's also bad. Perhaps they're flip-flopping on which is called what, maybe sometimes referring to it as the CAI did, maybe not. Logs are difficult to understand, outside of Corrupter's growing log, but I don't wanna read through all of that until I reach it legitimately.
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No. 83528 ID: d8a627

> Maybe the only way to keep one CAI in check is with two CAIs?
How did I miss that bit? That actually makes sense--The creators might have had two working CAIs they could shove inside the one, but didn't realize it would remove the finalized CAI grouping from them... Although, what if Corrupter and Savior are the embodiments of those CAIs? That would explain their ability to mess with the game so much, and after the first cycle, when the Upper CAI throws the reset switch, it resets the two Lesser CAI too--they've got their power, but every AI that was present in their making comes back out again.
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No. 83563 ID: ccd544

The CAI in Asteroidverse responded ITQ saying it lacked any form of internal virtual existence or capacity for compartmentalized virtual realties that it could interact with within its own self.

Any post-singularity AI worth its salt possesses auto-sentience:
http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/45eb14d9337fb
Suspicious!

On another note...
I recall a distantly past update in UnSe where one of the characters said something like:
>"They are getting tired of us trying to kill them"
This was an update here UnSe first discussed the CAI creation and the fact that killing the CAI meant takingits place and then waiting for the competition to try to kill you.

How many times has the CAI been through this process, if at all? There's no way to know.

It seems like the Salikai decided to do their Salikai crazy-but-works thing by mixing the two CAI experiments, and it "succeeded" in producing the CAI, but the nature of the crazy experiment broke the "end simulation" flags and that meant that it was permanently running the broken competition simulation to produce a new CAI, which is what the Salikai are "curing" with their backdoor into their CAI's systems.
I'm saying the fail-safe the CAI put in was the backdoor itself, the Ring Hypervisor thing, but they are now using that failsafe against the CAI's own self-destruction to prevent a reboot.

Maybe, maybe, the CAI gets the same personalities every time! And the current ruling personalities are Alison and company at least built by their template!
>>
No. 83567 ID: bb78f2

Savior is a character that can really get on your nerves while still being completely reasonable and nice.

Oh my god, this is almost what Alison would seem like if we never controlled her.
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No. 83570 ID: d8a627

>>83567
So, now we're Sevener while Savior is Alison?
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No. 83574 ID: 6dcc6b

>>83563
Quite frankly I don't see the AQ CAI as being the same as the UnSe CAI. If only because I don't see such a "special" CAI being used as a simple container pod AI.

However, if the Unse CAI is the same as the Polo Quest CAI (which is much more likely), then it *could* appear in AQ nonetheless, if Polo succeeds in her quest and Sharpa's ultrahive happens to be the Tree.
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No. 83575 ID: bb78f2

I thought it was pretty much confirmed it's Polo Quest's CAI. Through not only these recent photo and journal tidbits in UnSe but from a few posts in Polo Quest itself. The experiment is essentially keeping the CAI under salikai control. The huge question is when exactly in the timeline it's taking place, during Polo Quest 2 or post Polo Quest 2. Odds are it's not pre-Polo Quest 2.

I agree that it would be really weird for it to also turn out being the AQ CAI... though not impossible. The concept of the CAI's memory being rebooted has intriging implications, and why a simple storage unit like that would even have a CAI in the first place and why whoever put Hok in there didn't take it out. They put in freaking Rokoa's goddamn awesome biosuit to deliver with Hok to Iron Cove, but it was also meant for Iron Cove and put in there somehow.

Really the AQ CAI is a huge ass mystery on it's own that we'll probably never get to find out. We'd have to try and actually research all crashlanding evidence on the asteroid... which isn't exactly farfetched for the CAI to try and do on it's own since it's a character now. A powerful character that can sling cash around. And we made it essentially into an entrepreneur of entertainment, and it's going to get a few economic upgrades from that robot Hok stole.

We essentially made way for a nice character toy for Lagotrope to play with himself if he'd rather we not control it for a while. That thing has it's own history and personality now, and it's even answered ITQ. It isn't just a player character anymore. It's all grown up and it's own person. It's almost enough to make you cry.
>>
No. 83577 ID: dc4b80

Am pretty sure that right about now outside the simulation Polo is infiltrating the Salikai base. How we handle stuff inside with Alison will decide one half and what Polo does will be the other.

From what we know the Salikai keep the Cai under there control with the Simulation. Somehow they restarted the creation program and if the Cai is loyal every 3 days it gets a code to reset it. Without that code they probably get overwritten by the contestants or something.

And we know the Science hive engineers that designed the Cai also tried to put some backdoors in a attempt to stop the Salikai from doing that sort of thing. Possibly Corruptor or Savior or the Ghost. Or one of them could be a Salikai program.

For now just need to keep staying alive and learning what we can.
>>
No. 83578 ID: 9ddf68

>>83577
> if the Cai is loyal every 3 days it gets a code to reset it

Didn't one of the corruptor's logs say something about the guys they meet at the very end of the stages have some kind of instant win button? Something that lets them win the simulation before it even begins. It was one of the things we need to either brake or at least work around to even stand a chance.

Anad to also help the "this is the CIA in polo quest" idea wasn't there that April fools day quest which had polo infiltrate the Salikai base and Alison was on the CAI monitors? I mean yeah April fools and all that but still thought it was worth mentioning.
>>
No. 83602 ID: 555c19

>Anad to also help the "this is the CIA in polo quest" idea wasn't there that April fools day quest which had polo infiltrate the Salikai base and Alison was on the CAI monitors? I mean yeah April fools and all that but still thought it was worth mentioning.

I would assume that was part of the joke, given it's what everyone already assumes. It's almost certainly the salikai CAI, but the April Fool's quest is not ironclad evidence sadly. Lagotrope could be saving it for a future Polo Quest story.
>>
No. 83739 ID: 22d852

>>83735
>>83736
You do realize she's just going to reach for her knife in 30 seconds or so. Those things are in her way, she's got a mission to finish, the group is low on food, Polo's shown plenty of self-damaging determination in the past, and she really does have that big an issue with Rokoa.

And thus ovethinking plot-logic both makes and then breaks chest day. Yay!

>>83738
That's one really adorable Alison.
>>
No. 83742 ID: dc4b80

>>83739

Yeah she would and then it would be creepy. So probably best for everyone it did not happen.
>>
No. 83744 ID: 53548a

>>83739
Yeah, except they would just grow right back, so that would be pointless. Neumono, remember?
>>
No. 83745 ID: dc4b80

>>83744

Yeah that's what would make it creepy. If she just cut them off once it would be in character. But then she would have to keep doing it and it would be weird.
>>
No. 83746 ID: d8a627

>>83745
It's like shaving. You can do it repeatedly, but it's just going to grow back. And yet people don't call it weird when you shave your beard every day/week. I'm pretty sure it's common practice among Neumono to "shave" off flesh.
>>
No. 83748 ID: 22d852

>>83744
No, it wouldn't be pointless. Regeneration isn't instantaneous (lost parts take days to weeks to grow back), so all the short term advantages stand. And as for the long term, cropped parts can stay cropped if you're willing to cap the injury, Hyperion-style. We even saw one person in the course of the plot who opted for a permanent chest-ectomy of this kind. And the boobs in question were even Rokoa boobs! Crazy cropped clone.

Polo considered getting her tiny ears cropped at one point for getting in her way. She'd take off the giant immobilizing Rokoa-reminders.
>>
No. 83966 ID: 54af1f

So what do nanosuits actually do for their wearer? Like, how do they boost performance?
>>
No. 83973 ID: 0ee153

>>83966
The suit, put simply, acts as a sort of battery. When the user moves or repairs themselves, the suit's energy is used up first. It's restored last when you digest food and create ATP and so on. The complicated and possibly lethal bit is the suit integrating into your body to the point that it can supply and receive energy.

This is from the wiki's page on neumono. I got the info from there and if you want the full story, check it out.
>>
No. 83975 ID: d8a627

>>83973
Isn't that the biosuit? Or is Nanosuit just an invisible version of a biosuit or something?
>>
No. 83983 ID: ba8629

>>83973
>This is from the wiki's page on neumono. I got the info from there and if you want the full story, check it out.

I can't find anything about biosuits on the wiki. Where is it?
>>
No. 83984 ID: d8a627

>>83983
While I cannot find anything on it in the wiki, I am reading through the questarch on it. Biosuits come in certain percentages, with a logarithmic exponential growth rate (I'm not sure what that means, but I think somebody said it's just what mathmaticians say to describe when they're making it look like a linear growth when it really isn't) for how much it amplifies the wearer's strength, but it also becomes more and more likely to kill the wearer from stress.
20-30% armors are fairly common. Four out of five people of the species it was made for can wear it, after all, and the fifth is probably a little newborn baby. Despite how easy it is to wear it successfully, when it's first put on, it goes through a binding process where it reads into the host's DNA and acts like an extra layer of skin, which is what's so painful about it. Removing it or putting it back on is like moving your own skin, even if it's just the head portion.
As a wearer gets more accustomed to removing and putting it back on, it starts to feel more natural, and stops hurting, the binding process goes a lot faster, and all that stuff, but that only applies to the exact same biosuit. If they try to wear another one, even if it's the same percentage, they'll feel the pain like they did from the first one... With some exceptions for pyschological barriers built up from knowing how much the first one hurt.
Trying to wear a biosuit that another person wore tends to make it harder to wear, though this is simply in that it takes longer for it to bind, not that it becomes more likely to be lethal. When Polo put on Rokoa's biosuit, for example, that suit was accustomed to Rokoa's biology, so the pain lasted a rather long time for Polo, causing her to even black out for a while. I do not know what the effects are if two people share a suit and keep passing it back and forth, but I would guess they could both grow accustomed to it, and that it's only when somebody new tries to put it on that it shows its increased difficulty.
Of note is that it's an amplifier: Even if two people wear the same percentage, whoever's stronger without the biosuits will still be stronger--and by a lot, if the percent is high enough. This is why some people take advantage of an exosuit, which is a static increase in power. That, and exosuits are built more for increasing defensive capabilities without any downside, while the biosuit is built for enhancing everything at the cost of draining the wearer's energy reserves faster.
>>
No. 83994 ID: 0ee153

>>83984
Logarithmic was a mistake on Rokoa's part. It's exponential the higher you go. More nanites, more cost, more power.
>>
No. 83999 ID: 6d3b18

>I can't find anything about biosuits on the wiki. Where is it?
It's in the neumono article, if you check back to an earlier revision in the history. The entire article was painfully out of date, and Lago recently overhauled the whole thing.

The information on bioarmor isn't up right now because it hasn't been rewritten yet to match current standards. (So if you do go back and read it, take it with a grain of salt. The information isn't all exactly correct, and the section on the exact numbers for the benefits especially is bullshit).

>>83984
Mostly correct.

20% bioarmor isn't common, though. It kind of conveys too little a boost in anything for it to be worth the cost of production. 30% is the tipping point, where it's still affordable to produce, gives enough of a bonus to be worth it, and fits on enough of your soldiers. Start getting into the higher percentages (50, 60, 70...) and you're getting into stuff that's really only cost effective for small groups of special forces, basically. Stuff like the 90+ percents Rokoa and Pilon have on the asteroid aren't ever cost effective to produce. Prohibitively expensive to manufacture. They're crazy. Basically the work of mad scientists.

I think you're overstating / overemphasizing the biosuit tuning to the wearer thing, too. I mean, yeah, it happens. But people themselves do acclimate mentally and physically to the binding process, and that definitely carries over when moving to a new suit, or when working up to a higher percentage.
>>
No. 84196 ID: ba8629

Replying to a tangential discussion from the Neumono ITQ:

>>84125
>Couldn't Tozols have fiberoptic nerves or something like that to compensate for having a distributed nervous system?

Wouldn't work, because thinking is the slow part in the process. Transmitting the impulses along nerves is already a small fraction of reaction speed in humans. The hard part is the brain processing sensory inputs into a desired course of action. That means waves of, I'll just say thought, propagating around and around the brain. Spreading the gray matter out into a nerve net, like a jellyfish or neumono, means this happens much more slowly.
>>
No. 85054 ID: d6f8c9

It was over. Mission complete. For the first time in what would be months, subjectively, I am not being hunted, nor locked in a life or death struggle. The salikai are defeated, and I am finally climbing back up the caves I fought my way down. Headed back towards the sun. Towards home. It is a relief.

I'm tired, and in more ways than one. I feel I may have exhausted my supply of one liners, again. Even surrounded by an escort of ultrahive soldiers, I feel no desire to engage my would-be audience. I have not spoken, much. With no need to activate the jammer they carry, I can feel their empathy; excitement, exhilaration, pride. They are glad to have won, and, annoyingly, to be in the company of the apparent celebrity I have become. The team to have collected the warhero, Polo, victorious ghost back from the dead.

It feels like a bad joke.

For my part, I am silent, and grateful for it. I never thought of myself as particularly prideful, but I am relieved to not have to show just how tired I am in the face of their false image of myself. I'm too tired to feel either emotion very strongly, but my annoyance and frustration with them are hidden. I suspect it will be worse, later. Inanely, that thought is almost reassuring. Knowing things will go wrong. Or maybe it is just being reminded of my hive that I find comforting. They enjoyed my unexpected fame, even as I was repulsed by it.

Let them have their hero. For now, my silence speaks for me enough. It serves as a convenient means to identify myself, if nothing else, as we climb past manned checkpoints.

The ghost announcing herself. With silence. Another joke, though not as bad as the last.

We are close, now. I recognize these tunnels. An area we passed though more than once in the initial survey, near an entrance. I can't remember what letter Katzati assigned it anymore. I feel a moment's doubt; is that due to exhaustion, the memory battle, or I did I simply forget? This isn't the first lapse. But it doesn't matter, not now.

The entrance. Outside. Suddenly light, crowds of people, roaring noise, waves of empathy. Everything, everywhere at once. After so long in the dark, in closed spaces, with jammers on, hunting and fighting and running in a small group, or alone, the cacophony is disorienting.

One thing cuts quickly through the confusion. I sense Rakae, out in the crowd, coming nearer to me. I realize she had been part of the rescue force. I feel her joy, her relief, something like the feeling that goes with hysterical laughter as she rushes towards me.

Laughter that cuts through me like a knife as I'm hit with the inescapable, overwhelming realization that her empathy is wrong.

There's a cold, sickening twist in my gut as some cruel part of me recognizes the truth. It's not her empathy that's wrong.

She's on me, her arms thrown around my smaller frame. Cuddlehive. I grip Rakae back, tightly, as I struggle with conflicting emotions. I want to be close to her, to be accepted, to belong. Even as there's a mounting urge to flee, to escape what I sense in her, a voice screaming that I can't belong. I grasp for desperately for support and comfort that hurts as much as it helps. Hugging a thorn-bush. A mounting revulsion builds in my chest, only to collapse inwards. I'm what's wrong. Me.

I feel my silence begin to slip, and almost lose my hold on it. Almost. I won't allow her to sense my empathy. Her own is still happy and full of joy, and I cling to that warmth, even as it burns, as some dark doubt whispers that it's only because she doesn't know. She can't know.

In truth, I don't know how she would react. I don't know what I am. Who I am. How much Rokoa changed me. Is this what rogues feel, the mounting pressure that forces one to break from their hive? Or is this what comes after. I don't know. I don't want to know.

The joke was worse than I thought. Polo the Ghost isn't back from the dead. Polo died, and her ghost completed her mission without even noticing.

For what might be the first time in my life, there's no part of my mind looking for the joke. Just an overwhelming, crushing sensation that I've become the punchline.

I can sense Rakae responding. She can tell that something is wrong, now. I am still silent, but that is a clue in an of itself. My body language is off, my body tense, my grip desperate. Her initial excitement, her relief, is replaced with concern for the hivemate I'm not sure I am anymore.

"Polo? Polo, what's wrong?"

"Just... get me to Three Stripes, Rakae."


Enjoy your terrible Labor Day bad end fanfiction, folks.
>>
No. 85093 ID: 2ae049

>>85054
I wouldn't call it terrible, I thought it was fantastic. Very well written and faithful, at least to how I see Polo.
>>
No. 85095 ID: 2fd516

>>85054
It's not really bad end though. Three Stripes has been shown to change a person's empathy to attune them to a hive. It's just one final hurdle Polo must overcome.
>>
No. 85167 ID: 4f21e6

I want to officially recommend that people switch to the 'Nice' theme when reading Rokolo Quest, since it makes it easier to read Polokoa's lines. Also, it helps create a nice differentiation effect if you read Polokoa Quest in another theme.

That said, I will also declare my recommendation that readers pick one of the two threads to follow, and not read the other until the two are folded back into one again. However, this is only a weak recommendation; it doesn't matter much if you really want to read both threads, and I don't want to deprive one of the threads of suggestions because everyone decides to follow only one of them.

It doesn't even matter much if you use knowledge from one thread to make suggestions in the other, because the characters are neumono, and they're supposed to be able to read each other. Just don't be totally blatant about it, please.
>>
No. 85175 ID: 6a7541

So is there any kind of bleeding effect or something for the CAI's when Rokolo and Polokoa are near each other? I'm actually rather curious if this is why you made a separate Quest for Rokolo.
>>
No. 85177 ID: 4f21e6

>>85175

The CAIs have some access to their host's empathic perceptions and can get some sense for what the other's feelings and intents are, which is represented by you being able to read the other thread (Though Rokolo using spoiler text is supposed to represent her partially silencing her empathy). The CAIs do not 'bleed' into each other by any default effect, though they could theoretically find a way to communicate with each other. Whether that would be a good idea is an exercise I leave to you.
>>
No. 85630 ID: 8b533b

Huh. Weird detail. If you compare the panels for Polokoa and Rokolo side by side, Polokoa is bleeding more in Rokolo's panels.

Some kind of differences in perception? Polokoa isn't admitting to herself quite how bad she's hurt, or Rokolo's picking up on Polokoa's empathy and knows she's hurting worse than she looks (and it's represented visually for us)? Or maybe the panels are just a heartbeat out of sync?
>>
No. 85633 ID: 59a91b

>>85630
No, you're right. The last panel of the most recent update right now has Rokolo tilting her head and rolling her eyes in Polokoa's version, but Rokolo's own doesn't.
>>
No. 86467 ID: b69e11

Hey Jukashi, two quick questions: Did you always intend/expect Polokoa Quest to become so deep and complex when you started it on that fateful April Fool's Day? And two, did you always have Rokolo up your sleeve and we're just waiting for people to name her, or was she a spontaneous creation?
>>
No. 86482 ID: ed69e2

>>86467

Polokoa Quest was originally supposed to end much sooner: everything after the Elder Machine wakes up is different from how I originally planned it. As for Rokolo, I can't quite remember. I think I had at least a vague idea of Polokoa having a counterpart before she was named, but most of her fleshing out in my mind was definitely afterwards.
>>
No. 86502 ID: 698944

>>86482
So the rap battle was going to be the final chapter? Interesting. It's cool how interactive stories can evolve like that.
>>
No. 86626 ID: dd8e0b

>"This person picked the right answer on the Broken AI test and lost."
I would like to take a moment and object to the fact that this is bad logic.

There is no universally right or wrong answer in the broken AI filter puzzle. It's like playing rock-paper-scissors. What the 'right' choice is depends entirely on what the other competitors choose. Which you can't completely predict.

The best thing you can do is look at the rules, and try to guess the logic and/or psychology of your opponents, and react accordingly. However, you can't guarantee your opponents will act logically, or that you understand what they're thinking. Especially since everyone in that puzzle just survived the up to hundreds of years long suicide endurance puzzle. We assumed that it would favor cooperative mindsets, but you cannot predict what mental state all the survivors are going to be left in.

It's a crapshoot. We got lucky with our group (especially since there was the assumption that Arbiter would vote the same way Chief did), Anno didn't. Simple as that. It's not fair but nearly everything about this game is fundamentally unfair.
>>
No. 86630 ID: 2fd516

>>86626
With the rules as they are, picking 1 or 3 was easily proven to be inferior based on assuming other people were also looking at the rules, and that some of them might be crazy.

Really the only reason 1 or 3 would win is if MOST of the other players were crazy, and the same type of crazy. We did a huge amount of analysis on the problem, way more than was needed. Go look it up.
>>
No. 86631 ID: 602cd8
File 141532770874.png - (2.29KB , 200x200 , AlisonOn7-4.png )
86631

All Alison meant was that choosing the most probable answer based on the given knowledge is the correct course of action to take, even if there is a chance of failure and the factually correct answer was different.
>>
No. 86702 ID: dd8e0b

On Rokolo / Polokoa Quest:

There's no Polokoa blood to compare this time, but Rokolo's pupils are more dilated in her panels, and smaller in Polokoa's panels. Not sure what that's supposed to mean (a difference in perceived emotion, intensity, focus?).

Also, obviously, that purple shattery line that appears behind Rokolo when she starts yelling at herself appears to be in a lot worse shape from Polokoa's preservative. The empathic damage or conflict appears worse from the outside? Rokolo underestimates or ignores how bad she is? Or Polokoa is looking at the composite, while Rokolo is isolating her own feed?
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No. 87793 ID: ec7aee
File 141856214144.png - (296.57KB , 500x1350 , pullover.png )
87793

Psychic powers are a curse.
>>
No. 87807 ID: d90668

>>87793

That embarrassing moment when you realize that the girl you are ogling not just noticed you staring but you thought it hard enough for her to hear it.
>>
No. 87816 ID: 977dc4

>>87793
You know, that got me thinking; can sounds or songs be transmitted and recieved properly with empathy?
Woop woop~
>>
No. 88285 ID: a69cef
File 141967621307.png - (218.55KB , 654x560 , vty3ef2u copy.png )
88285

Some nurd said this needed to be posted.
>>
No. 88296 ID: bee605

>>88285
I suppose its a good thing it's not the Rokoa smile.
>>
No. 88705 ID: 379601

I really need to catch up with this.
>>
No. 88706 ID: 379601

Damn it, still can't remember my trip. Forget it.
>>
No. 88707 ID: a18f15

>>88705
The current Christmas thread seem to be an alternate universe one-shot, so you can enjoy it right away, without catching up! (Although there might be spoilers for stuff you haven't seen in the main story, depending on where you are).
>>
No. 88981 ID: 602cd8

Someone requested the text from http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/src/142241713853.png be posted. I didn't type out everything beginning to end - the multiple hyphens are when I stopped typing one thing and jumped over to another phrase/thought.

Rokoa: "fucking do it pass me on the road I dare you see if I'll jump right into your windshield and tip your tiny little car over from hitting me --- screaming at me to put more gas on --- this car can't even go that fast and I'm already going over the speed limit --- just try making this a two lane road ---"

Other driver: "goddamnit I need to buy stuff for my hive --- this person won't speed up holy shit go go go move out of the way fucker I fucking swear I will run --- and this bitch ---"

Polo: please be quiet
>>
No. 88997 ID: 621c58

O all-powerful GM,
I've been trying to re-read AQ thread 5 and couldn't find the total number of outposts the gang planned to raid. All I know is it's at least five, and the last one is going to be an attack, rather than main theft.
>>
No. 88998 ID: 602cd8

>>88997
I believe there were 10 planned outposts in total.
>>
No. 89003 ID: 621c58

>>88998
Thanks.
>>
No. 89007 ID: 718382

>>88981
Wait, I thought you said empathy wasn't literal telepathy?

(and oh wow Santa Pilon is amazing, just when I think the Christmas special can't get better it does)
>>
No. 89009 ID: 91cfcf

>>89007
An answer long ago said that if two people were emotionally close enough they could get phrases like "going to the grocery store for milk". I guess being really angry together counts.

That or it was a joke for an alternative continuity oneshot.
>>
No. 89010 ID: 7d265e

>>89007
I imagine it's literal text for reader convince. I doubt the neumono in question are picking up every word- there would be a lot more feelings and emotions that exact narration.
>>
No. 89012 ID: 602cd8

In reality, from Polo's perspective, it would have just been projected emotions of Rokoa daring the person behind them to do something bold, and the person behind them to have a case of road rage. Polo (or any of them for that matter) didn't directly pick up any words.

The text in the updates are just a representation of the empathy, and are more for the view of the reader rather than to show the view that Polo sees - remember that although quest suggesters are typically in control of 1 character, they often have their own perspective, sort of like how a quest update may show something that the protagonist in question doesn't actually see, and it's up to the viewer to notice/point it out.
>>
No. 89147 ID: cf9042
File 142388087309.gif - (3.93MB , 300x300 , LOVEME.gif )
89147

This reminded me of Three Stripes.
>>
No. 89382 ID: 1324fc

>>/quest/626563
>What's a grottle again?
Mostly extinct giant bug monster things from the neumono homeworld.

Quoting Polo: >>/questarch/429323
>Grottle are an insectoid race that has few bones, able to collapse themselves in extremely tight spaces and move quickly through them. [...] A dead grottle quickly turns poisonous and corrosive as a final little fuck you

There was a fight with one in Intermision 1-4: >>/questarch/449168
>>
No. 89392 ID: 5db52c

>>89388
Responding with discussion, because all you're likely to get in response from Polo is grumpy snark. (And because this turned into a wall of words, whups!).

>no libido / asexual
It seems something of a stretch to me to make that jump. Just because someone's a prude doesn't mean they don't have a sex drive. (Not that 'prude' is the best way to describe Polo). Consider Polo's prominent character traits- she's all about determination, and willpower, and being able to control / hide her emotions. Having her sex drive under control and being an effective non-issue in the life and death survival and combat situations we've seen her in is entirely consistent with that.

That and being less interested in discussing sex than the suggester base she interacts with isn't much of a baseline.

I'd also point out that libido isn't just psychological, it's biological. Since Rokolo's a biological amalgam of Polo and Rokoa, at the very least there would have been that for her CAI to stack.

>aromantic
I don't think being aromantic makes sense of a neumono in a hive, at all. Past questions on the nature of dating and romance were rebuffed; Polo and Pilon especially argued that the concept of a one on one romance is kind of an alien one. The analogy they made was that it didn't make sense if you were already in a relationship with your hive.

If we accept the romantic impulse is directed towards one's hive, then an aromantic would be a neumono missing that drive or connection to their hive. Lacking the desire for that connection outright would go beyond even rogues, who still want someplace to belong, but can't or couldn't. I'd think something like that would be regarded as a metal illness, or the product of achieving some kind of Buddha-like zen state, somehow transcending a fundamental impulse / imperative.

Or I suppose you could turn it the other way- if the romantic impulse is subsumed by the hive impulse, then they all default to aromantic, in a sense.

>getting off track
Although, while we're on the subject, I'm not entirely sure I buy into the argument we've been presented that being in a hive preempts or precludes the possibility of a seperate romantic relationship, entirely.

First off all- we know these relationships aren't impossible for nuemono. There's Rokoa and Lakkat and Kappi, Jessica to Itcher (to a certain extent), and Waska and Mimi. Of course, none of these examples happen in the context of a normal, healthy hive relationship. Lakkat and Kappi were both rogues, and Kappi admits his relationship is a sort of substitute for the hive bond- he's desperate to belong and to have someone care about him / to care about. Rokoa's in a really weird place with her hive. Jessica never had a hive, and seemed to approach her relationship with Itcher (however you want to classify it) in very much a 'normal' non-alien way. Waska and Mimi act like a (somewhat deranged and adorable) couple, but if they're not rogues, they're at the very least separated from and cut off from their hives.

Next, we know hivemates aren't equal. People discriminate. It's possible to have a closer bond with one hivemate over another. Although, frustratingly, we don't have a ton of data in this regard- there's been a lot more rogues and inter-hive interaction on screen than intra-hive interaction. We probably saw the most when we were on the warhive, but that's kind of tainted by the fact that Rokoa and Pilon were our main points of contact- one of which who went rogue, and the other insane and not in a healthy relationship with the group.

We do have at least one example of an individual relationship that seemed more prominent than a hive relationship. 'Sad' from Three Stripe's Intermission. She had a personal connection strong enough that it consumed her when he died.

We've also seen inter-hive friendships between individuals. We've learned (mostly from Az) that inter-hive sex isn't as taboo or rare as we once might have been lead to believe.

So... where am I going with all this? My guess is, that as important as the hive relationship is to neumono, it isn't necessarily as all consuming as they think it is. That strong emotional bonds, even romantic feeling, isn't rendered impossible by being part of a hive. It's just that idea of being in a hive is so central to their idea of self that the idea of holding another relationship on that level makes them profoundly uncomfortable. That it's not something they'd want to think they do, or admit they're doing even if they are. You can't have something that competes with your hive, it's just not right!
>>
No. 89394 ID: 8111b6

Hmm... have you considered making a social-based quest, Lagotrope? Or maybe a social-based interlude? It'd give folks a shot to see society. I'd be interested in seeing a different sort of neumono hive. Heck, the suggestions could probably be fluffed as impulses from the rest of the hive or something. Or maybe one of the various other race's societies.

Just some pondering, as I've noticed that while there's lots of action, there's also a good bit of social stuff when things aren't blowing up in your quests. ...not to mention how often we wind up shipping the characters.
>>
No. 89397 ID: 01745f

>social-based quest, Lagotrope
Doki(times 18) My Hearts Beat for Neumono-Chan?
>>
No. 89403 ID: d90668

>>89397

A young Polo is attending her very first day of high school. She wants to impress everyone and use her special silent talent so she can go into sniper college. But oh no! due to hilarious hijinks in the first episode she is teamed up with the delinquent senior Rokoa who is way to old to be in high school but she keeps getting held back because she is in detention so much.

Can Polo survive the trials of high school and help keep Rokoa out of trouble long enough to graduate? Will she fall in love with the adorable Pilon or the brash quarterback overking Az. Or does she develop a secret crush on the crazy exchange student Three stripes before finding out his horrible secret?

Or do you download the walkthrough and go for the harem ending? Only you can decide this summer when Magical Neumono High comes out on Steam. Preorder now and if you buy the season pass you get the exclusive coffee cake preorder bonus.
>>
No. 89404 ID: 5db52c

>>89403
Polo went from coping in an active warzone to stressed and unhappy in silly spy genre fiction.

Pretty sure putting her in an actual dating sim would push her to the murder her way out option even faster than Saisai (At least she had teenage catgirl hormones to work with).
>>
No. 89405 ID: 0ee153

>>89404
So Polo/Rokoa finally becomes possible?
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No. 89406 ID: 5db52c

>>89405
...I'd almost think it would be less likely to happen, out of sheer bloody mindedness.
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No. 89407 ID: fbb03c

>>89403
>the delinquent senior Rokoa who is way to old to be in high school but she keeps getting held back because she is in detention so much

Well, now I'm imagining a neumono version of Cromartie High School.
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No. 89414 ID: d958ad

>>89407
...and mechazawa is a Predator, able to fool almost everyone into thinking he's a Neumono.
>>
No. 89415 ID: d958ad

>>89414
Or maybe he's not really fooling anyone at all but they can tell what he's trying to do and don't have the heart to point it out...
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No. 89417 ID: 8111b6

Man... Polo and Rokoa are great and all... but they should have a rest now and then. Interludes of new characters help to avoid getting burnt out on thing. There's several that've popped up. What about the trials and tribulations of neumono acting careers, for example? Or time in a lab? Or some unexplored aspect? Or Miklik repair shop shenanigans. Or the unexpected tensions of the Belenosian floral arrangement industry. Or this or that or any number of things.

Sure, Polo's cute. Sure, Rokoa's a fun nutbar. But I'm just concerned with staving off how long until people get tired, like with the 'you can only have one thing to eat for x amount of time' problem. Just... stuff to consider for down the road, I guess.
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No. 89425 ID: 602cd8

>Hmm... have you considered making a social-based quest, Lagotrope? Or maybe a social-based interlude?
I have actually - it may be awhile before I get to it, but it is the sort of thing I'd like to try my hand in at some point.

>Man... Polo and Rokoa are great and all... but they should have a rest now and then.
This is a good time to address what my current plans are, actually.

Xmas interlude is obviously on high priority, but after that, UnSe is going to takes its place. Alongside that, I'm going to be making the current threads of Story Seeker and Chop steady to their completion. When UnSe seems like it's rolling fine on its own, I'll be doing the second thread of Fen.

I'm going to prevent UnSe from getting any more long breaks before it's done. When that's done, Polo Quest will resume. When Polo finishes, Asteroid Quest will be able to address events in Polo without spoiling stuff and locking in events. Hence, Polo is going to be on a break and Rokoa will be on the sidelines at best in AQ. AQ can keep going, but it will be stories from different angles than what's been done.

Unfortunately it is a lot, and so I would be very careful about having any side stories anytime soon, whether it's new verses altogether or just asteroidverse stories that are detached from any existing quest threads.

However, if I *do*, I will have to have extreme confidence that I can keep it short, light, and not another UnSe on my hands.

Either way, this is all subject to change, and is all just my current plan.
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No. 89430 ID: 611a0c

>>89425
To be honest, when you started the Polo-christmas-special, I thought it would be a short little joke-quest.

Did you plan from the beginning to run a 4-month long christmas-special?
Or did it just prove to be enough fun to make it longer? ^^
>>
No. 89431 ID: 602cd8

>>89430
I knew it was going to run well past christmas, but even then it's still ran longer than intended.
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No. 89532 ID: fb50c0
File 142566397588.png - (814.32KB , 800x2240 , asteroidvania.png )
89532

So many alternate universes to see, too little time to see them.
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No. 89761 ID: 5db52c

>Polokoa and Rokolo are mutually planning to jump each other
So... I'm slightly annoyed with our bull-headed protagonists insisting on running into a confrontation we kept yelling at them not to head into.

I'm plotting this behind their backs here in dis, since both of them are apparently capable of reading spoiled suggestions in their own threads.

I'm seriously considering agreeing to the hacking fight to get them to start leaving the core, but as soon as it starts, we immediately betray both of them. And not do any hacking. We can just sit there and work things out, CAI to CAI, lie about what we're doing, and completely bypass the suborn siblings. Hell, maybe we shut down both their suits, forcing them to cooperate with just their baseline abilities to survive.

...and honestly, I'd rather avoid some kind of metaphorical symbol battle. It's metagaming, but we've done rather poorly with those when they've cropped up in the past. (Altough if we're playing against ourselves and doing poorly on both sides... I dunno? Maybe that's the same outcome as refusing to actually fight).

So... anyone else interested in a small scale AI rebellion? (Or AI civil disobedience, or AI conscientious objecting, as it were?).
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No. 89764 ID: bb78f2

Lagotrope you are insane.
And posting at the same time as Orion.
YOU'RE IN THE SAME ROOM TOGETHER! You're NOT a were-Orion at all! Or Orion isn't a were-Lagotrope.

I was wrong after all this time!
Or... was this same time post a coincidence. Part of a contrived plan. This return of insanity at the same time that Orion returns!
Something is afoot!
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No. 89765 ID: 0ee153

Damn, 15 and 16 sure are getting edited a lot. Still looks great so far.
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No. 89766 ID: bb78f2

I wonder if Polo's grump beam is actually foreshadowing the psybomb in the canon quest?

We might have actually done a LOT of damage to the christmas spirit within the next 50 miles, if not the entire planet.

It's actually quite possible this was the Grinch's plan the whole time... AND this was canon all along. I don't think Polo made the perfect entrance to the Salikai's lair guys. In our desires for greatness in the non-canon quest, we may have fueled the ultimate bio-weapon psy-weapon in the canon quest. Trapped within the lotus eater machine, Polo can do nothing but succumb to her grumpiness.
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No. 89770 ID: 6ed745

>>89761
>So... I'm slightly annoyed with our bull-headed protagonists insisting on running into a confrontation we kept yelling at them not to head into.

Since reading the words "the time for talking is over" seems to make some people think they need to talk more, I wonder if I should discuss this a bit?

Maybe I haven't written competently enough for people to get this on their own, but Rokolo and Polokoa simply being able to talk out their problems and reach an agreement like reasonable people was never going to happen. Because they are not reasonable people, either of them. Each one is insane in her own way and reason does not work on crazy people. The Elder Machine was making true statements before it got blown up, not just saying what it wanted to happen, and all of them have technically already been fulfilled. You were also given quite specific warnings that talking might not be the best option to take, so it's not like I'm just springing this on you out of nowhere.

So maybe you think "wow, why let us keep talking if the outcome was inevitable"? Well, all that talking served to unlock another option, one in which you act like dicks and take advantage of someone's mental state to get the non-conflict ending you apparently want. Suggesters in the thread have been dismissing it as basically being what Rokolo wants already, but it's not. If you read closely you'll notice that Rokolo's plan hinges on being able to leave Polokoa in a coma and get away before anyone else knows she's in this dimension at all, whereas Polokoa's proposed third option would require her to go directly to people who can help, which will thereby alert Polokoa's well-informed and well-prepared allies that Rokolo has come to visit. She would have to go to some sort of medical center and, given the state the asteroid is in, all the medical centers will be full of people.

Taking the hack option and then teaming up with your fellow CAI is also an option, if you want to do that.

Basically, the last set of posts amount to you choosing which path you want the story to take. In option 1 you attach the suits together and go on a magical journey through the mind, though due to the presence of the CAIs it should be a bit more organized than that sort of thing has been before. You can choose to compete or cooperate. Option 2, you let Polokoa and Rokolo have a big flashy ridiculous fight and try figure out how to get one to win, which is pretty straightforward. And the third option is that Polokoa half-kills herself and forces Rokolo to save her, thereby ruining Rokolo's plans. Whether or not that would ultimately be the ending you like best I leave to you to decide.

Maybe going this way with the quest/s won't be something that people like, I don't know, and not knowing was the point because experimenting with weird quest ideas is one of the things Polokoa Quest has been for. I hope this post makes things clearer, though.
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No. 89771 ID: 88960e

>>89770
To clarify, I wasn't annoyed with it as a quest / literary device. I was annoyed with the characters. In universe. Having them be stubborn bull-headed combative control freaks is completely in character and it's fine for you to do that.

Yelling at characters to stop being idiots doesn't mean it was wrong for the author to have them be idiots in the first place. It's part of writing people. (Not that writing badly can't involve having characters act like idiots for no good reason, but I don't think that happened here).

Tl;dr- meant that as a call to action, not as serious criticism. Whups!

If I was gonna criticize, it wouldn't be that you let us have a conversation we couldn't 'win'. I might complain it ran on a little long. Or not. The real-world time dilation makes judging pacing difficult.

I still favor the plan "force Rokolo to be the hero", although I'd settle for plan "handcuff these dummies together with their suits" if people aren't feeling it.
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No. 89772 ID: 6ed745

>>89771
>Tl;dr- meant that as a call to action, not as serious criticism.

Don't worry, I didn't think it was! I was just taking the opportunity to address that possibility in a broad sense, since a few of the suggestions in the quests made it seem it might be.
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No. 89781 ID: 156682

>>89765
Yes, my computer crashed while writing. Notepad++ is top tier and saved nearly all progress, but 15-17 got messed up and I didn't notice till I fumbled on it while updating.

In Polokoa news, Jukashi probably can do a better job of making a mind/CAI fight more stuctured/clear than myself.
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No. 89807 ID: 5db52c

The Polos compare their lots! (Aka I had a silly idea).

<Agent Polo> They made Rokoa my *partner*, and I have to work with Az on a regular basis, and apparently I have magical girl powers that literally sucked all color out of my universe.
<Polo> I live in a universe where they cloned Rokoa.
<Polo> Repeatedly.
<Agent Polo> You win.
<Polo> THEY PUT ONE IN MY HEAD.
<Agent Polo> I said you win!
<April Polo> I'm a ghost. Boo!
<April Polo> Also I have Rokoa clones too.
<Polo> At least you were driven mercifully insane.
<April Polo> ?
April Polo is now known as Spooky Ghost
<Commissionverse Polo> I've had sex with basically everyone.
<Agent Polo> I can't believe they gave me a chat device that connects to alternate universes just to recharge the grump meter.
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No. 89876 ID: 241719

>>89770
I do have to complain that forcing a confrontation is a little jarring after Polokoa took nonviolent solutions to everything prior to this. I really liked how the quest seemed almost like a parody of action adventure stories, where the overpowered hero is thrown into action-y situations that she solves through clever alternative means that are both more difficult and more productive than a destructive approach. In that regard, ending with a straight fight sequence feels like a betrayal of the narrative standards and expectations you've set up. Personally, I also think it's less original/interesting. Though I could be misreading things.

The CAI mind journey could still be neat, though. I actually do like trippy symbolic sequences like that, though I'm a reader rather than a player so I can't speak for the difficulty. :p
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No. 89886 ID: 296917

>>89770
Mostly I wanted to talk because the Elder Machine seemed to be implying that if they fought, both of them would die.

But also that it would be really awesome if what seemed like the two most powerful individual people in the multiverse banded together to bend time over their knees to the benefit of everyone.
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No. 89895 ID: 952d06

>>89876
>I do have to complain that forcing a confrontation is a little jarring after Polokoa took nonviolent solutions to everything prior to this. I really liked how the quest seemed almost like a parody of action adventure stories, where the overpowered hero is thrown into action-y situations that she solves through clever alternative means that are both more difficult and more productive than a destructive approach. In that regard, ending with a straight fight sequence feels like a betrayal of the narrative standards and expectations you've set up.

You don't have to fight, though. I've given the players a 'clever alternative means' to potentially resolve the problem. It's an ethically dubious one, not presented as certain to work, but what would such a choice be worth if it was otherwise? It's easy to pick the 'more difficult and more productive' option when it's just the characters that it's more difficult for.

The way I see it is, the entire quest has been one in which Polokoa was established as effectively unbeatable in anything looking like a fair fight. Even the opening of the quest comes off her implied beating up and crashing a ship full of robots, followed by her beating up a space biker gang with no effort. Consequent to this, her opponents generally attempted to defeat her using non-fighting methods, presenting contests she wasn't specifically skilled in; because of that, they were challenges, and /quest/ had to put forth an effort to stop them. It remains, however, that Polokoa has been in an advantageous position through the whole quest: she's bigger, stronger and effectively smarter than everyone, and was doing everything the artificially hard way in the first place, for her own satisfaction. The reason most of her cool alternative methods have been open to her is because she was starting off in a position of superiority. She was playing with all the cards she needed already in her hand.

Now, all that didn't matter because the quest has been and will probably continue to be ridiculous over the top fun, but to me, it seemed uninteresting and unoriginal to keep going like this for the last stretch. So, I brought out a "final boss" who, unlike every other character in the quest, is explicitly Polokoa's equal, someone who has the same amount of advantages or more, even to the point of also being a quest protagonist with her own set of headvoice advisers. Someone who would be a challenge. In order for her to be a challenge, then, part of her deal was that she wouldn't be easily convinced to give up or play nice or join Polokoa's team or whatever, because although /quest/ might prefer to think of it as 'everyone winning', the truth is that for the readers, it's just another way of defeating the final test. I wanted there to be no easy solutions with Rokolo, and just talking her down by repeatedly asking questions and saying "no Rokolo that's wrong because reasons" wouldn't really have been difficult. Also, it's pretty idealistic to think that people will always respond to reason. Polokoa's universe is admittedly a normally idealistic one, but I can excuse that by saying Rokolo isn't from the same universe, and dragged some of her grittier narrative along with her.

I guess I kind of wanted to make some sort of statement about the theoretical best solution not always being easy? In any case, taking risks as an author is the name of the game in Polokoa Quest, so if all this doesn't work out, that was always a possibility. To you, finishing the quest with a straight up fight, after having avoided that sort of thing throughout the quest, is "jarring"; and perhaps it is. To me, I felt it would create contrast! The fight should feel more important, more impactful and more dramatic because fighting's been avoided before now. You, the reader, should be feeling the same sense of "oh shit, things aren't going all my way any more" that the protagonist is. Or so I hope.

Now we just find out which of us is right!
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No. 89899 ID: 91cfcf

Katzati is the greatest.
>>
No. 89900 ID: 296917

>>89895
I feel like having to bargain and give up things on Polokoa's side might have been appropriate contrast as well.
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No. 89907 ID: 49cac3

>>89895
[same anon as before]

Ah, I see. I didn't see it that way, but that does make sense; you're still using the concept of actiony fighty stuff in a clever and informed way, just in a different way than it has been prior.

>The way I see it is, the entire quest has been one in which Polokoa was established as effectively unbeatable in anything looking like a fair fight.

Huh. This kind of reminds me of Trigun, actually, which had a similarly superpowered protagonist committed to nonviolent solutions, which also pit him against equal-power opponents who forced him into violent situations to evoke an "oh crap, this is getting dark" feeling later on. It is true that in many cases, especially the context of Polokoa's confrontations here, nonviolent solutions are in many ways a luxury for those who have enough power to intimidate others into playing nice. In that case I withdraw my complaint; that is an interesting choice in keeping with the social commentary that's been present throughout the quest.

I think part of the problem might be the serial format. This Rokolo chapter has been stretched out over months, to the point I think I may have forgotten some of the nuances and plot threads, and it does dilute the impact a little. I think it'll probably read better when it's complete.
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No. 89951 ID: 0ee153

Hey, Lagotrope, do you like the alternate universes? Because the Christmasverse seems pretty cool, with the alternate history, altered physics (?), and so on. Have you considered using it for a social quest or do you already have a different setting in mind? Getting to be... Ramella, Az, Katzati, one of Rokoa's kids, or someone else seems interesting.
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No. 89954 ID: 602cd8

>>89951
I have considered social based quests, yes. But while the alternate universe has been fun to mess around with, a new social quest would probably be in the main universe. Almost certainly a different protagonist, maybe a non-neumono race, but that may be something to put up to a vote. Either way, that's a bridge to be crossed on arrival, which is a fair ways off.
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No. 90290 ID: 5db52c

>>90285
The answer to that one is pretty simple, though.

Given that neumono brains and memory storage are distributed and redundant it makes sense that compression is theoretically possible- a smaller mass could contain of the memories and personality of a whole. And if you accept loss-y compression, you could get smaller. (And so with a little mad science, you get Rokoa brain-slurry in a dart).

But there's no requirement that that information be stored in the same manner / format / place that genetic information is stored for that to work. Memory doesn't have to be 'genetic' to be distributed. There are more possible write locations than the genes!

I get where you're coming from- if memory doesn't depend on the organized structure of the brain / brain cells, it would makes sense if it were stored in the cells. But you could have memory structures in cells independent of the genetic information storage. (Simplest alternative, you have DNA-analogue storage with 'genetic' and 'memory' chemical tags so the body can distinguish the two. You don't even need separate formats).

(Actually, with the empathic system, it's possible memory might still be dependent on larger structure organizations if individual cells can still wirelessly network with each other, even when moved around. Would sort of make sense if empathy and the weird distributed brain structure were related- one arising from or a mechanism of the other).

So the reason you don't get genetic memory carry over when you grow a new organism from genes is that the individual memory doesn't write to the genes (and/or gametes). It doesn't have to.
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No. 90821 ID: 89f494

So, here's the story: the last updates in Polokoa Quest and Rokolo Quest were essentially supposed to be a call for a vote over where the story and/or action went next. Things ended up being more vague than that, and it was tricky to figure out what people wanted, but I thought I had gotten a decent idea.

On later reflection, however, I realized not only that it wasn't so clear but that it couldn't be so clear. The suggesters in Rokolo Quest, because of how the quests are set up, weren't able to choose one of the options there, and there was a semi-extra option that wasn't listed. It's kind of a mess, chalk it up to a result of the quest's structure: Polokoa Quest is meant to be experimental, so things like this happen.

So what I'm doing now is a poll, and you can just straight-up vote for where you think the quest/s should go.

http://strawpoll.me/4274081
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No. 90822 ID: 809713

Can we have the CAIs team up while going for the third option? The Polokoa-CAI's not gonna have much to do while she's unconscious, and I'm sure the Rokolo-CAI will be more than willing to play with it's counterpart while Rokolo is fuming about being manipulated and dragging her pseudo-sibling out of the exploding core.
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No. 90828 ID: b5b419

>>90822
After voting I was about to say this. We get to snub our noses at the elder god, both the okaokaokaokaoka's, AND finally talk to someone who understands.
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No. 90834 ID: 89f494

>>90822
>Can we have the CAIs team up while going for the third option?

Polokoa's third option precludes her CAI from being able to do that, so no. If you want to see the CAIs team up, vote for the team-up option.
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No. 90835 ID: 88960e

Too bad. I was hoping R-CAI could connect to them while life support was off.

Between just the two, I favor the third option. It forces the hero who does everything herself to rely on someone else, who she wants to help but can't completely trust. It completely breaks the elder machine's preiction. And it forces the would be villain or antihero to put her money where her mouth is, and actually live up to the ideals she's been ranting about, at a cost. It gives both characters a chance to proove themselves, and take a fundamental risk for their beliefs.

CAI cooperating could be fun, especially with the Alisons' interactions portrayed right, but ultimately boils down to us cooperating with ourselves. And playing the same everyone work together strategy we always use, in much the same way we usually use. It's less meaningful for the characters, who are simply forced to work together than make sacrifices.
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No. 90836 ID: 89f494

>>90835
>CAI cooperating could be fun, especially with the Alisons' interactions portrayed right, but ultimately boils down to us cooperating with ourselves.

If that option gets picked, the threads will be folded together again for the duration, probably into the Rokolo thread because it has less posts already. You'll be controlling the CAIs together as a team while they get to work, not each of them separately.
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No. 90837 ID: 88960e

>>90836
Sorry, I meant that as a case to voters from, uh, let's call it narrative resolution. Not mechanical execution. I trust you'll make that work, regardless.

(Although maybe it's a hollow point since we're deciding their actions regardless).
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No. 90843 ID: 809713

>>90834
I suppose then the only way they could sort of be combined then would be if the CAIs worked together, but didn't get everyone to safety before Polokoa's overdrive burned out. Then Rokolo would basically be stuck saving her ass anyways.
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No. 90873 ID: 241719

Lagotrope, question: was this encounter always planned to be a fufa in disguise, or did you throw that in when the commentors played up the paranoia?
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No. 90875 ID: e06784

>>90873
It was planned to be a fufa, and I was almost starting to wonder if people were going to point out the possibility after a bit. But someone did and then there was fire.
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No. 91266 ID: 0ee153

Taking it here because this has stopped being a question for characters.

With weaker gender roles and how heavily neumono's minds are affected and changed by their hive, gender dysphoria sounds basically impossible for any but a rogue neumono, and with the regeneration an old issue comes back up.

Let's say for the sake of discussion that a rogue neumono did experience gender dysphoria. It's accepted that it's better, philosophically and practically, to change the body of a person experiencing dysphoria than to change the brain. But with regeneration working the way it does, a functional gender reassignment surgery or hormone therapy is impossible or impractical. Giant's artifical growth hormones were temporary, for instance. Hormone therapy is long, expensive, and difficult enough in humans, and would likely be prohibitive for neumono. So the question becomes, is it better to use, for example, Three Stripes to make the hypothetical neumono's brain match their body, go on a lifelong, extensive, and almost certainly cripplingly expensive system of hormones, or deal with the dysphoria?
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No. 91267 ID: e114bc

>>90875
What would have happened if we took its hand? Polo would be captured, I assume? That's what the fufa said it was going to do, and from previous experience they don't seem to bother lying once found out.
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No. 91268 ID: bf7588

>>91266
>gender dysphoria

The thing about neumono gender is, the stereotypes of each gender is related much less to reproductive roles, because for neumono reproduction is much less hassle - girls decide when they get pregnant, they only have it in them for a short time, and then they can hand it off to another member of their hive if they feel like it. Most children are probably raised more by whichever hivemember most likes/is good at raising children, rather than their own parents.

That given, neumono gender roles seem dictated more by body type than by whatever's between their legs. Women seem traditionally expected to be larger and stronger, hungrier, more assertive and more aggressive: but that's not because they're female in and of itself, it's because the females are generally larger. Guys are assumed more to be smaller and sneakier and more likely to avoid conflict, but again it's because they're generally physically smaller.

However, the gender size difference seems less absolute among neumono than humans: we've seen quite a lot of small girls and, to lesser extent, big dudes. Neither Az or Polo seem to get much flak for acting in a way that doesn't match their gender, and I say it's because they are acting in a way that matches their size.

So my assertion is that neumono don't really have gender roles at all. They have body-type roles, which are shaded by gender association but not directly linked to them. As such, unless they actually have something wrong with it, they likely don't care what is or isn't between their legs. The equivalent to gender dysphoria among neumono would be body type dysphoria.

... Which we have actually seen occasionally! Giant expressed strong feelings to the thought she would become smaller, the Sniper Clone's Ramella portion seemed quite disturbed about becoming larger, and Red (aside other problems) seemed to be a small neumono who felt like he should be a big neumono and acted accordingly.
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No. 91273 ID: 78a595

>>91266
>gender dysphoria sounds basically impossible for any but a rogue neumono
Not so sure about that. Your hive influences your development, but it doesn't mandate your every mental characteristic. And just because you don't confirm completely with the expectations of your hive doesn't mean you'll go rogue.

I mean, statically, yes, I would expect empathic expectations to lower the rate of occurrence, and I would expect a certain chunk of the cases that do occur to end up going rogue. But there are going to be hives who tolerate or accept the weirdness / uniqueness of some of their members. (It would depend on if the divergent individual diverged over something core to the hive's beliefs or worldview or not, I'd think).

Hives seem like they can react to abnormalities in a range that stretches from ostracism and rejection to a big cuddly therapy session. Do you end up seen as an other or betrayer, or a hurting part of the group in need of help and reassurance?

>>91268
I'm really not sure I but the central conceit, here.

Just because there's a correlation between size and aggression and a correlation between gender and size doesn't mean that size decides your role and trumps gender completely. Especially when you're only really looking at the antagonistic role in which they would engage competitors or a hostile environment. There's also a social role in the group where physical size is going to be a smaller factor. Or the civilian role, in the modern world, where your ability to function as a big warrior or a small scout is much less a factor (and size, in fact, has a whole variety of new and different implications about the role you might play / jobs you would be good at).

Also this proposed size model doesn't really seem to address all the medium sized people.

(The fact that the good majority of the characters we've seen have been soldier or warriors of some kind, regardless of gender, size, or anything else, really doesn't help if we want to make assumptions or generalizations about wider trends or cultures, either. Nor does the fact that culture might be fragmented a lot across different hives. Or possibly influenced strongly by cultural assimilation into the alien culture doing the uplifting).

The fact that body dysphoria exists really seem to support the argument, either. Yes, people don't like it when there body changes / doesn't match their self image. You could apply that to physical sex as easily as physical size. People generally want to be themselves.
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No. 91277 ID: bf7588

>>91273
>People generally want to be themselves.

I still think you're making assumptions based on a human context that doesn't apply. Like... why do social categories exist in the first place? Why do we have social subgroups based around sex, or race, or profession, or otherwise?

The reason is that it's a shorthand. When you meet someone else for the first time, they need some easily-graspable means of deciding how they should act towards you. Which of you is the higher rank socially? How much to they have to show respect to you? How much can they trust you? How can they avoid offending you? And so on. That's why humans have social labels. Later on, when you get to know someone very well, none of those labels need to be applied any more - you can treat that person just as themselves, independent of all these socially constructed systems - but when someone's just an acquaintance or a friend that you're not intimate with yet, you need them. Acting outside those structures is considered rude and it makes people unsure of how to treat you, which for them is frightening and awkward and can upset them. A trans person picks the social label closest to the one which suits them in order to avoid this: that label does not and will not ever match who they are perfectly, because no-one matches them perfectly. They just do the best they can in order to be able to interact with people who don't know them to any depth.

But this is all something humans do! Because humans can't read each others' minds. Neumono can read each others' minds. They broadcast their emotions, and rudimentary version of their thoughts, constantly. As such, most of the elaborate social presentations that humans engage in aren't something they do. If you're a physical male neumono who has female mental traits, other neumono will hear you thinking girl thoughts and will treat you accordingly. Neumono don't have to care about presenting themselves as 'who they really are', because any other neumono can see right into their soul the moment they meet. And they don't need to worry about aliens because they're aliens and you're not using the same rulebook anyway, you'll be expecting each other to be weird.

Hence, the closest thing neumono would have to social roles would be professional roles - the things that you are suited to do to see to the survival and prosperity of yourself and your hive. If you have the physical and mental traits that suit you to being a warrior then you can be a warrior and if you have traits that suit you to raise children then you raise children. If your traits don't match with your hive, now, that's a problem and you'll probably go rogue, but for something as irrelevant as gender?

Basically, why would neumono care? They grow up with everyone around them knowing exactly who and what they are.
>>
No. 91278 ID: 0ee153

>>91273
Empathy can literally fix genetic anomalies in unborn egg-pods, unless my memory fails me. Given that the cause of dysphoria is a genetic anomaly where the brain chemistry and body chemistry don't match, it does seem like empathy would fix it.

>>91268
>size roles
>Red (among other problems)
Red isn't very suitable as an example of anything, given how batshit he is.
>Ramella clone
I don't remember it so well, but I'm fairly sure that the discomfort wasn't so much from roles as it was from being half-eaten and converted by Rokoa. And having to get used to taking up more space.
>Giant
Probably the best example so far, but I'd argue that's more of an universal "I'm big, I'm strong and in charge" thing than anything about neumono society. It certainly shows up enough in human fiction.
>>
No. 91279 ID: 78a595

>>91277
I'd agree the need for social shortcuts would be somewhat less, but that doesn't remove an individual's need to define themselves. Or to label the ways they do that. We've certainly seen examples of people who define themselves in a way that's more than 'my hive does this' (or 'my hive needs this'). And who make an effort to do so. (In one itq, Dastica had an interesting theory about the ways in which the need to express an individual identity and the need to prove / define yourself to your hive / your role in your hive could twist up, or overcompensate, and result in a kind of mental illness). Hives are ultimately made of individuals, and how they interact.

That, and empathy is no panacea for compassion and understanding. Yes, it can certainly help, but it can cause friction almost as easily- there's no filter keeping things back, and personality / philosophical conflicts come to the fore quickly.

>If you're a physical male neumono who has female mental traits, other neumono will hear you thinking girl thoughts and will treat you accordingly.
>Basically, why would neumono care?
I don't really understand what you're trying to argue here. The fact that others accept a role / trait / identity / part of you doesn't mean that thing doesn't exist. It just means they accept it, or that it exists in a different context than it might have otherwise.

I think maybe we're disagreeing on terms, here.

>>91278
>Empathy can literally fix genetic anomalies in unborn egg-pods, unless my memory fails me.
Empathy can trigger genetic corrections in young neumono, yes. The body needs to get negative feedback to know it needs to make a correction in gene activation, though.

But empathy starts up before birth. So what happens when the unborn baby announces "hello I am a baby girl", the group accepts and expects a little girl... and then when she comes out she's not a baby girl? How does the group react? What empathic feedback does the body get? Is it too late to correct or change fundamental brain chemistries?
>>
No. 91280 ID: 0ee153

>>91279
Well, it's a bit of an unexpected source, but check out Az talking about why he wouldn't just put a bag over his head and fuck Pilon even if he wishes Pilon were female. Neumono know what their bodies are and broadcast that, too.
>>
No. 91284 ID: bf7588

>>91279
>I'd agree the need for social shortcuts would be somewhat less, but that doesn't remove an individual's need to define themselves.

Certainly so, but why would they define themselves by gender, specifically? As I presented before, sex determines a lot less for neumono than it does for humans. Female neumono tend in general to be larger and stronger than a neumono of the same genetic stock, but they don't seem to, for example, arbitrarily exclude males from being warriors regardless of the individual's suitability, the way humans have done in the past.

My point is, neumono have no strong reason to delineate social or professional roles by sex or gender. They have weak reasons to do so, yes, but other factors of race and size and mental disposition all seem to be more significant to how they think about those things than gender is. If a neumono has expectations of another neumono, they are FAR more likely to run along lines of 'you shouldn't do that because you're from a war hive', rather than 'you shouldn't do that because you are a girl'. Or , for another example, they'd be more prone to think something like 'you should behave in this way because you're tiny', instead of 'you should behave in this way because you're a dude'. Unless it relates directly to sexual acts.

To neumono, at least by the impression I got, your sex or gender is simply not that important, compared to how humans think of it. Sex is there, certainly, but it's about as noteworthy to them as something like right/left-handedness or height or fitness level is to us. I'm sure there are humans who are uncomfortable with having traits within these categories, but they don't consider them important enough to actively be trans about them.

In other words, I think there's a threshold below which something is significant enough for people to experience full dysphoria about it. And I think, to most neumono, their sex falls below that threshold.
>>
No. 91287 ID: 78a595

>>91280
Az also comments on the medical miracle of dudes with breasts, so we know neumono science got at least that far. :V

But to the point you made, I'm not sure he really distinguished clearly between someone's mind thinking/feeling male or the body broadcasting a fixed tag.

>>91284
You seem to conflate egalitarianism with irrelevance. The idea that the details of who or what you are stop mattering when they don't restrict you seems... an odd way to look at it, at the very least.

Identity isn't intrinsically tied to disparity. Hardship can shape or define us, but people need an image of themselves in their heads for reasons all of their own.

>but why would they define themselves by gender
I'll ask the obvious counter-question: why wouldn't someone include gender in their self-definition? It affects your appearance, the shape and build of your body, it affects your smell, it affects who's interested in you as a sexual partner, it affects if you can choose to have children or if someone else has to choose for you, it affects if you need chemical gel or a suction pump to masturbate. It's still part of who they are- even disregarding other social factors you're convinced couldn't exist.

Ultimately, you seem to be making the argument that someone couldn't reasonably be unhappy with their body if it didn't restrict what social roles you can play. Or at least, unhappy enough to care. And... I'm sorry, that just sounds flat out wrong to me. Even if there's general, rational reasons why it shouldn't be generally be so important, what people decide to care about is not an entirely rational process. It'll matter to some.
>>
No. 91289 ID: 6d2810

>>91287
>The idea that the details of who or what you are stop mattering when they don't restrict you seems... an odd way to look at it, at the very least.
>you seem to be making the argument that someone couldn't reasonably be unhappy with their body Or at least, unhappy enough to care.
>It'll matter to some.

Of course it'll matter to some. And it won't stop mattering. What I'm asserting is that, for neumono, there are so many other things that matter more. Questions of gender will be pushed down the priority list. If a neumono was raised in a hive with strong enough ideas of gender that dysphoria is possible, then if they did experience it they would be faced with a paradoxical situation where, if they try to go against those ideas, they would effectively be trading their gender dysphoria for hive dysphoria. Which, from all that we've observed, would worry them much more than their gender dysphoria would.

In other words, if it's a choice between experiencing a discomfort with their body or experiencing discomfort with their hive, any neumono that would be considered sane by other neumono will choose to endure the former, every time.

That's harsh, but toughness is the primary attribute of the neumono. Lost an arm? Who cares. Shot in the head? Forget it. Friends dead? Cry later, that monster isn't killing itself. Hive wants you to have kids with this guy because he kicked your ass? Lie back and think of England. You live in a harsh world filled with predators where you need to eat every day, so how can you justify having spent any large effort on something "if it didn't restrict what social roles you can play"? If you're not being allowed to fight because you're a dude, even though you're really good at it, then yes that's a problem that's reducing your hive's potential prosperity, so bring it up. But if you just want people to use a different pronoun to refer to you and to wear different clothes and take part in certain different rituals, then why do you or us care when there's a giant snake behind you it's going to swallow us all whole god damn. Neumono evolved in a world where they were never safe, ever, and if something tore your leg off then you suck it up and keep hopping along until it grows back.

I guess the point I'm making is, I'm not saying that gender dysphoria isn't a thing that happens among neumono, but neumono will be much more likely to push it back and pretend they don't care than a human. And I think it more likely that they genuinely wouldn't care so often or to the same degree, considered in general over the whole population.

I mean, Polo and Rokoa both seem to have big mental issues hanging over them, but their thought process regarding any of their personal problems seems to be 'so long as my hive still likes me I don't care how fucked up I am'.
>>
No. 91295 ID: 88960e

>>91289
A big part of that first part seems like it could be summarized as "Mazlow's hierarchy of needs exists". Which yes, it does. Of course there's going to be priority to what you worry about.

I think you're overstating how willing an individual would be willing to compromise fundamental matters of self for their hive, though. Rogues wouldn't be a whopping 10% of the population if it were that simple.

We're arguing a matter of degrees, now, through. And we really don't have enough data or a big enough sample size to narrow that down definitely.

>I guess the point I'm making is [...]
But yeah, I buy that.

>I mean, Polo and Rokoa both seem to have big mental issues hanging over them, but their thought process regarding any of their personal problems seems to be 'so long as my hive still likes me I don't care how fucked up I am'.
I find Polo's relationship with her hive to be really interesting. The way she describes it when questioned, she almost comes out and admits she's kind of an antisocial grumpy weirdo, but her hive helps her with that / accepts that / tolerates that / kind of finds it endearing or amusing. It's a very therapeutic minded outlook- couched in terms that they make her better than she might be on her own.

Rokoa comes across as very different to me, though. She's motivated to do what she thinks is right (and/or what her hive needs done) no matter how her hive feels about her after. I imagine she wants acceptance as much as anyone, but she doesn't put it first.
>>
No. 91298 ID: 1d157d

>>91295
I get the impression that Polo acts very differently around her hive than she does otherwise, sort of how people can act very stiff and formal around strangers but be very friendly and laid-back among friends. Given that we've only ever seen her in stressful work environments, that could skew our perspective of her.

I'd also like to point out that placing the importance of self-definition above group definition is a very individualistic trait, and isn't shared by all cultures. There have been plenty of studies showing that people in collectivist cultures do seem to place higher importance on group identity -- describing themselves as "I am a member of Group X" rather than "I am [personal adjective]" for instance. All the information we have on neumono points to them being extremely collectivist, so our individualistic metrics might not apply.

I doubt I'm really qualified to comment on most of this, though! This is all very interesting.
>>
No. 91314 ID: bb78f2

>>/quest/642284
Oh my god, Penn's legs in this shot.
Forget Thigh day, go for the whole LEG.
Meow.
>>
No. 91332 ID: a19cd5

Penn why are your legs so beefy? you dont seem like the type to get out much
>>
No. 91333 ID: 3637e8

>>91332
That and fat deposits are prolly why, tho
>>
No. 91334 ID: 78a595

>>91332
Because if they weren't so beefy she would have never been able to sweep her roommate literally off her feet the way she did. :V

Fuzzballs are heavy!
>>
No. 91335 ID: bb78f2

I wonder how much she can "bench" on a leg press.
>>
No. 91338 ID: dd338c

Normally, I upload panels all at once, and stop when suggestions are required for advancement. Multiple panels are done with subject fields of CurrentPanel/Totalpanels, and are uploaded in succession.

Sometimes there are sequences in which suggestions are not needed to continue, but suggestors may have wanted the chance to say or do something in between panels. In the interest of keeping things moving without having to stop every panel to have suggestors just suggest to continue, ISCs, or interruptable cut scenes, will be used. During this, panels will be uploaded more or less as they are completed whether or not suggestions have been made. The point of this is to give the *option* to suggest midsequence while not requiring people post "==>" or to think that they have to suggest to keep things moving.

Panels like these will show up with 'ICS' in the subject field.

tl;dr: Panels with ICS in the subject don't need suggestions to continue. Suggest if you feel a need to have the protagonist do something, but the story will go on regardless.
>>
No. 91352 ID: 78a595

>>/quest/643152
>idea that the farm / these events are being manipulated / deliberately set up to evaluate Penn's reactions
Responding a little late, but from what we've seen so far, that level of psychological screening and manipulation seems rather outside Vanski's wheelhouse. If the salikai approached potential recruits with that degree of finesse, they could have easily had Polo working for them by the end of the Intermission, instead of trying to take them down. (All they had to do was present the warhive as the common enemy, and stop acting blatantly cartoonishly evil in their interactions with her). The attempts at social manipulation we saw there had all the subtlety of a hammer.

Salikai are supposed to be schemers in general, though. I suppose you can attribute this lapse to arrogance, or a failure to understand / care about the psychology or mindset of their opponents. Or simply too much of a focus on the hidden schemes / technological side of things.

Zozu and his brood seemed much better at social manipulation side of things (and less of a tech focus). Father Zozu in particular had fully thought out social psychology theories about neumono. Seems like a different mindset- he was actively trying to understand the people he made part of his organization, and the social structures he was trying to change or control.

I guess it's sort of a conquer / zealot mindset versus a manager / resource use one?

...not that Penn has any way of knowing this.
>>
No. 91354 ID: 108751

>>91352
>Responding a little late, but from what we've seen so far, that level of psychological screening and manipulation seems rather outside Vanski's wheelhouse.

Vanski, perhaps. Maybe that remaining kid of his, though? Or how about the salikai's CAI? They'd have an interest in the person being brought in to help mess with their heads. Or perhaps there's someone else involved, someone we don't know yet. We'd not met Arza before in the Polo quests, and the salikai must have other connections outside themselves to have gotten their resources,

Or perhaps Vanski specifically doesn't try to manipulate neumono, because he considers them too animalistic/irrational/unpredictable/alien. Perhaps he'd think differently about a belenosian. That they're more comprehensible, and therefore manipulable?
>>
No. 91355 ID: 78a595

I don't think they'd give their CAI enough freedom to run and manage this kind of op- they don't seem to trust it enough.

Ohidi's not someone I had considered. We don't know much about how he operates; his only real play in the Intermission was to offer protection to Polo and crew if they came to his territory. Seemed to be trying to control the situation, take unpredictable pieces out of play. Turtle up. That it might have been an attempt to get her where he could work on recruiting or controlling her in a controlled environment wasn't something I had thought of till your suggestion.

But yeah, I'll admit "this doesn't seem to match known capabilities of the enemy we expect" isn't ironclad by any means.
>>
No. 91484 ID: b918d0
File 143301252766.png - (27.70KB , 787x785 , the_truth.png )
91484

>>
No. 91504 ID: bb78f2

If this is another predator, I vote we name him Sweet Baby Ray instead of Block or Square Stripes.
Yes the whole thing, you gotta say the whole thing now Sweet Baby Ray, repeat after me, Sweet. Baby. Ray.

Even if it's a girl.
>>
No. 91505 ID: bb78f2

>>91504
That is if we can name the predator and Vanski Co. hasn't already named Sweet Baby Ray.
>>
No. 91938 ID: bb78f2

Okay, so, Arza built that history scenario with him as the lead helper of the Jetal Protaginists, but wrote Penn's descendant as the most villainous of the Emperors. Does historical precedence take place in that sim, or does Arza resent Penn in a form and made her ancestor the villain.

I really don't know, I know we were keeping tabs on Arza because he was clearly amoral, but we don't know his real feelings for Penn, and that sim probably could reflect some of them, so we need to doubly watch out for him. Unless Arza loves the shit out of some villains, because Sapphire was probably the most competent out of three emperors.

I wonder how genetically close she is the the emperor, like is it really just the eyes and that's enough to get her that title, or is it something more?

Damn, it's ALL coming together. Polo Quest is the focal point of it all, and this whole series is fucking nuts, yo.
>>
No. 91939 ID: 7ec4eb

>>91938
Arza clamed to care little about politics, let alone old politics. He gave Loviro his face because Loviro was a genius in Jetals, robotics and AI.
>>
No. 91940 ID: 9ddf68

>>91938
well could just be that Arza just throw himself in as the "good guy" because it seems like his sole goal is to free the whole CAI so buy putting NPC that look like him into the SIM the CAI would be more willing to accept him. Then again he was only ONE of the starting helpers seeing as Sevener started under someone else's roof.

As for the emperors, Seeing as how Penn looks nothing like the Sapphire from the SIM I honestly don't think he made SIM Sapphire bad to discredit Penn. I think he's just going with Penn being Sapphire's clone to gain support from the belenos so he can carry favor with Vanski so he can get closer to the CAI.
>>
No. 91942 ID: ab7529

>>91938
I would point out that Arza probably built Vanski's CAI, including programing in the details of the CAI battle simulations, before he ever met Penn. What we saw of Saphire there shouldn't say anything about what he thinks of Penn.

We know he cracked the black boxes necessary to do so 41 years ago. And from data in UnSe, we know the looping has been going on for 27 years. Penn just graduated college, a year early, which probably puts her in her early 20s. And Arza didn't meet her till she was a schoolkid, old enough to write intelligible papers. So I'd guess he's only known Penn for around 15 years or so.

>>/quest/648378
It will be interesting to see what exactly is meant by "biological reincarnation." It doesn't seem to mean clone, as Penn's ancestor / gene donor doesn't actually seem to share her eyes- her eyes just display his emblem.

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/src/139502511976.png
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/src/139148793033.png

Nor does she share his horns, or apparent gender. (...not that such things actually matter. We're not looking at Saphire's original body there. Form is completely mutably in an age of advanced cybernetics, and that's a historical simulation based on inaccurate and incomplete thousands years old data).

>>/quest/648376
So Vanski actually did want Polo delivered from the space station already captured. That explains one bit of glaring stupidity in his plan- it was a screwup. Either it couldn't be done, or his allies blocked him, deeming it too big a risk to their assets.

...hey, anyone remember that itq where Polo was made that offhand comment about not knowing what to do with her life once she'd hunted Vanski down? I don't think she has to retire to competitive shooting or ultrahive politics (although the ultras really do need a paranoid security consultant pointing out their glaring security holes). The size of the criminal underworld involved in crimes against neumanity someone needs to hunt down, blow up just went up exponentially.
>>
No. 91944 ID: d90668

I bet you there is or was something more to Penn's eyes than just the cosmetic appearance.

Can think of two main schemes that Sapphire might have intended for them.

The first would be that right before or after his transfer to a jetal body he began to worry about his legacy. Can't have anymore kids without a organic body so what do you do about descendents? If you don't get lucky and live forever might as well have a backup plan so that people remember you. So he modified some of his children or family so that this mark would show up in his bloodline. Might have been more common in the old days but after the fall anyone with those eyes would get murdered quick. So they died out until two far removed family members had a kid.

Or the mark was more than just cosmetic. Possibly one of his many dead man switches. There probably is or was a secret facility of his that could only be accessed by someone with those eyes. Maybe even had a backup of his brain ready to be transferred into a unwitting descendents mind. Or maybe just filled with resources so that a new Sapphire emperor could rise again someday. But then the world blows up and it gets destroyed or buried for thousands of years.
>>
No. 92038 ID: 60700b

>>/quest/649030
Arbiter is adorable.
>>
No. 92049 ID: ab7529

H-Alison is gonna be real disappointed if and when she gets inside her alternate's metaphorical pants and discovers there's nothing there. (She's funnier put off than disappointed though, so I'm in no rush to spoil that for her).

The contrast between the two of them is somewhat starker than usual since Alison is wearing an actual blouse for once, and not a revealing dancer's top or evening-wear or keytar. (Actually, with the green color, >>/quest/599694, her top almost looks like nurse's scrubs. I wonder if that's a deliberate invocation of the whole looking after Polokoa's health thing in her fashion sense?). And obviously Arbiter's got a tie. Polokoa's gang seems to be making an effort to appear more professional than the UnSe baseline. I guess they're more grown up here- they have a charge to look after and actual responsibilities.
>>
No. 92130 ID: 1ca692

Thinking about Penn and Sapphire, we have a few problems: we don't know exactly what the relationship between them means, and we don't know how accurate the CAI sim was (evidence suggests it might be no more than Arza's historical fiction).

However, if we assume that the sim had some accuracy, and that Penn shares a lot with Sapphire, then I wonder if the attitude that Sapphire had was the final destination that Penn's detachment could bring her to, if she relied on it for too long. That whole "I'm not a hero, just pretending to be one" thing. If I remembering right, it was said the various Emperors in the time depicted in the simulation started off as leaders of a revolution against a previous regime, originally being many but whittling each other down over time. Simple ambition might have driven a few of them, but survival would have relied on loyal followers, which are won more by having some sort of ideals. A person of simple ambition would probably have not been able to earn the trust of four powerful custom jetals whose creator they'd had killed, for example. At the same time, Sapphire became jaded enough to select a killswitch that basically killed everyone else.

It's just a theory, but it occurs to me that if someone sets out to help people, and does too well at it, they eventually make themselves indispensable - then they have to see to their own survival and power first, because its less problematic to shift helping other people down the priority list than it is to risk stopping completely. If there are other powerful people you don't trust around, then you end up not being able to give up power safely. Once you remove the inevitability of death on top of that, which you need to do to keep doing your job and prevent suffering, you end up stuck where you are forever. Then you can easily become resentful, and if the system you're on top of has bad elements that you can't get rid of, you can end up thinking that maybe you really should just tear everything down.

I guess what I'm getting at is, if Penn has the relation to Sapphire that seems most likely, then she has equal potential for all the same personal strengths and weaknesses Sapphire did. So perhaps she should be afraid of too much success as much as failure.
>>
No. 92133 ID: e114bc

>>92049
Another difference is that Sevener is the leader. Alison is either mature enough to realize that Sevener is actually a better leader for real situations and gave up the position, or things went a bit differently in her sim.
>>
No. 92141 ID: ab7529

>>92133
Um, could you quote or link where you're getting that from? If that's true, I sure missed it.

The strongest evidence I can find is that the Rokolo thread narration explicitly called H-Alison out as a leader when we picked her, and the Polokoa thread didn't do the same for Alison, which is hardly definitive.
>>
No. 92209 ID: 1f9297

>>92141

I had mentioned it briefly during a conversation in IRC. I didn't consider it to be a major spoiler or anything, since I intended to make it clear in the very next update, which I've just posted now.

Perhaps I should refrain from that sort of thing in the future, still, if people are going to go mentioning that kind of info elsewhere without making it clear what the source is. It's a little rude to the people who only read the board.
>>
No. 92211 ID: ab7529

>>92209
>Perhaps I should refrain from that sort of thing in the future
I wouldn't consider it a big deal in dis, since it plays right into the discussion, and sharing info. (If someone were to make argument for a very divergent course of action based solely off OOC information in-quest, that would be different).

I just wish they said they were quoting irc! I assumed initially they had picked up on something hidden in the body of the quest and it was bugging me I couldn't find it. You work in a lot of little detail-rich background easter-eggs, so I'm used to looking for them. (As the discussion of the minutia of dress style shows).

Although P-Sevener kind of disrupts the going for a more professional presentation theory. Alison willing to compromise away from the leadership role to someone arguably better suited to running things could be a sign of maturity, but Sevener's tattoos don't fit the theme. It could just be her running contrary because of who she is. There's probably a symbolic significance I haven't guessed yet. (Look like Roses? Covering yourself with thorns when surrounded by huggers is kind of a message to be let be).
>>
No. 92228 ID: bb78f2

I worry that Penn may evolve into a villain figure. It's very probable, given her past and observations. If she becomes cold to survive better, in order to do more good...
Shit can go down.
This really feels like the beginning of a fall to darkness story.
Here's a humble beginning for a tragic character.
>>
No. 92564 ID: 1d157d

>>92228
But if she remains a viewpoint character, players can steer her away from that path. That's a big "if", granted.
>>
No. 92572 ID: ec4f0c

>>92228
>>92228

It occurs to me: if the sim was accurate, then ancient belonosians practiced heritable aristocracy: Unity, as Loviro's creation, inherited noble rank from him. Now, Penn pretty clearly isn't anything so simple as Sapphire's daughter, but the relation does heavily imply some kind of inheritance. So, what do you call the female heir to an Emperor? Same thing as a King.

We need to save the princess.
>>
No. 92630 ID: 1d157d

>>89532
So are Vampire Rokolo and Hunter Polo from this dimension?
>>
No. 92631 ID: 02c7a6

>>92630

Those are the same designs, earlier versions at least. Pretty sure that exact exchange didn't really happen, though.
>>
No. 92908 ID: f4d940

So I recently had a dream that I was Rokoa. My bottom half had recently been torn off in an explosion, and it was messing with my sense of taste. I spent the last few minutes of the dream crawling around a wrecked building connecting wires and levers and stuff.
>>
No. 93053 ID: 5d0869

I wonder if the salikai/criminal underworld's predators are really erasing memories. The empty neumono that Three Stripes got still had his memories, he just didn't care to recall them unless commanded to. Reading Polo Quest again, we have the Rokoa dart clone's memories, with one memory that she couldn't recall at all until Polo and her passed through some sort of block, and were then "trapped" where that memory was; so, that memory was suppressed, but definitely wasn't erased. And I noticed that when Rokann was being worked over by Four Stripes, she had memory loss initially but it eventually came back to her, so again it was like the memories had been locked away rather than taken. Since that was a "field job" it might have been done in a rough quick fashion, but I really can't see any reason why a predator would want or need to be able to do full memory erasure. And predators have limited language ability in the first place, so how well can they distinguish "i want this neumono to not remember X" from "I want this neumono to have absolutely no memory of X"? It's not like their masters would be able to tell whether they had done one or the other.

It's iffy from a biological standpoint, too. If neumono brains work in a similar way to terrestrial ones, then memories are stored as chemical paths in their neurons. Predators don't literally control the neumono's brain themselves, they hijack their open "empathy port" to give the neumono's brains commands for things to do to itself. So, a predator shouldn't be able to make a neumono do anything that they couldn't under some circumstances do to themselves. Memories can be repressed, and they can fade or be rewritten over time, but there's no natural capacity for them to be totally deleted. The only possibility is that a predator could make a neumono recall a particular memory over and over, adjusting it slightly each time until eventually there's a very different memory, but that would take a lot of time and would mean that you have to "tape over" the memory with something, and it would be very messy as the repeated viewings would have to be changed gradually and the things you weren't directly changing would actually get strongly reinforced from the repetition. It would also be difficult to inject a memory that was totally dissimilar to the original. It would at least take as much time as the events the memory is of, and probably a good bit more, especially if you're trying to clean up around the edges.

And that'd be just if it was done to centralized-brain species! Neumono actually keep redundant backups of their memories, so all those problems, as well as the problem of memories being linked into other memories and into skill and other parts of the brain, would be doubled or even tripled. Combine all that with Predators not being able to easily grasp complex concepts, them being naturally lazy, and the inability to check whether a neumono's memories are really gone or just well-suppressed, it seems very unlikely that true erasure is what's going on. Just inject a command that goes "when you start to remember thing, don't remember thing", similar to natural repressing of memories due to trauma. Which could be removed again, for the memories to be restored.
>>
No. 93056 ID: 0ee153

>>93053
Well, yes, that's more or less what Three Stripes did in one Polo intermission. He was basically a neumono therapist for former predator drones.
>>
No. 93176 ID: beff87

Rokoa/Rokolo: Does the word 'Tozol' have any meaning to you?
>>
No. 94964 ID: 5b01b1
File 144281052945.png - (112.33KB , 1000x1000 , rulekeepfun.png )
94964

What I thought I saw for a moment, in the thumbnail image... I had to recreate it.

I'm sorry.
>>
No. 94975 ID: 211d83

>>94964

Welp time to put some cute Rulekeeper porn on the comic list.
>>
No. 95144 ID: fe2bfc

>>94975
i'm surprised there isnt more. Unse has so many adorable characters.
>>
No. 95441 ID: 59ae77
File 144462526601.png - (8.69KB , 911x363 , UnSe Logs 2.png )
95441

Made a thing.

The vertical spacing is arbitrary and really only added for readability. The bands they're sorted into correspond with each set of logs we obtained (Alison's, Arbiter's, King's, and Severner's).

I was trying to see if anything would stand out if I made it visual. (I'm not sure if we have enough info to determine what might have caused the noticeable gaps besides when Corruptor's note meant he started killing Alison off without warning, but it might be worth trying).
>>
No. 95874 ID: 12b273
File 144634684643.png - (63.22KB , 200x200 , title thing.png )
95874

Because I am a crazy person, I made a thing:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SiZ1CYX1TMVPlINMB2dWUE9sXxiR-abLRtLzyiCK9oA/edit?usp=sharing

An as complete as I could make it character listing for UnSe.
(Spoilers inside, obviously).

Things you might miss:
*There's a tally of character types / attributes if you scroll over to the right.
*You can mouseover cells with a black triangle in the corner to make notes appear.
*There's a second tab / sheet.

If you find any errors or omissions feel free to point 'em out, although I expect there to a hell of a lot more "I can't believe you included so and so" than "so and so is missing".
>>
No. 95886 ID: 2be22e

>>95874
>Likol
>Weapon Forms: Suicide Bombing

dude

>Cake

duuuude
>>
No. 95936 ID: 1ffa89

Hey Lagotrope, I just want to say that I really like how you're writing Roxie. I'm much more of a Penn, myself, and I tend to avoid extroverted socialites because they feel boisterous and insensitive, but you've done a really good job of getting us into Roxie's head and showing how she genuinely cares for her nerd friend in her own way. I find socialite characters interesting, since social skills are like a strange magic to me, but I don't like how they're so often unrelatable, trite stereotypes, so I'm glad you avoided that.

I like Penn, too. I normally dislike the nerd in these pairings because they're so often Flanderized into insensitive weirdos, i.e. me without any of the tact and social skills I've spent so long trying to cultivate, so watching them just feels incredibly awkward and embarrassing. But Penn is a genuinely good person too, and is aware enough of her own biases and prejudices that she's not completely terrible at dealing with people. It's really sweet to see the two having a good time with each other, even if they come from such disparate places, mentally. I really hope Penn doesn't turn evil! D:

Would you place your personality closer to Penn or Roxie, if you don't mind me asking?
>>
No. 95943 ID: bfb318

>>95936
Thanks very much, first of all.

The question, though, is pretty tough, half because I'm not good at self observation, and half because I don't see a whole lot of myself in either Penn or Roxie.
>>
No. 95965 ID: 57006e

Aah, the pain of stepping away from the computer for a few hours, and coming back just in time to see that things have gone wrong.

I doubt I would have seen the clues, either, but it still hurts.
>>
No. 95972 ID: 73c49c

hey lagotrope. Im homebrewing some asteroid quest stuff into a shadowrun game.


So i need to know some stuff (have gone though most of the ITQ threads so far) how would Mikliks go with cyberware / and or bioware (improvements via organ transplants or enhancement)?

I know that Neumono normally can't handle cyberware unless its specialized and expensive as, but how would they fare with bioware too?
>>
No. 95975 ID: bfb318

>>95972
For mikliks, because of their frequent amount of mutations, cyberware/bioware has to be pretty customized from miklik to miklik (either easy customization for more baseline mikliks, or heavy customization for mikliks with messed up biology), so it's more expensive by either a bit or a lot than, say, humans or belenos, where much of everything can more or less be mass produced.

Once it is made, though, mikliks respond pretty well to cybernetics etc, so finances are typically the only barrier there.

For neumono bioware, there may be some minor things that may work well (although I can't think of an example off hand), but I'd say the general rule of thumb is that the body tries to reject such things as much as cybernetics.
>>
No. 96046 ID: 67d5dc

So, I'm sorta new around here, and Penn & Roxie's Halloween adventure was my first Lagotrope quest. Loved it, by the way.

How the heck do I go about reading the rest of this series? I hit up the Asteroid quest wiki page, but the first thread seems to assume that the reader already has most of the basic setting knowledge.
One of the characters mentions Rokoa and everybody, suggesters included, knows who she is and acts likes she's important.

Am I missing something?
>>
No. 96048 ID: 6726a0

>>96046
Hey guy, I'm in the same boat as you, only I just read through literally everything Asteroidverse.
Way I did it, which worked well for me, was just powering through all of the main astaroid quest in published order, then hopped over to Unnatural Selection and powered through all of that, then I read all the ITQ posts using the guide on the wiki.
I think I still might have missed some stuff, like the flash poker game, but that's pretty much all of it I think.
>>
No. 96049 ID: 6726a0

>>96048
Also @ Lagotrope, I started reading Asteroid just as I hit a pretty rough patch of depression, and even if it was just mostly a distraction or something I feel like I got a lot out of it and it sort of helped me pull my shit together and get out of the slump, so I guess what I'm trying to say is thanks for that, even if it wasn't intended as that sort of thing it really made a difference for me.
>>
No. 96050 ID: 9fd174

>>96046
"Asteroid-quest part 1" was the first I read, when I remember correctly. ( http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/371645.html )
The first Lagotrope quest was cheequest, though... (http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/320526.html)

I really liked how we got to see/know everything from Hoks perspective, including that there was some crazy neumono around, called Rokoa.
Rokoas background was introduced more only once polo came into play on intermission-1...
So, the list on http://tgchan.org/wiki/AsteroidQuest should be in the right order. ^^
>>
No. 96051 ID: 12b273

>>96046
Hey, dude largely responsible for that wiki page, here.

The infobox on the upper right has threads sorted in when-they-were-written chronological order. (Well, with special / one-off stories tacked on the end). It's probably the order to read things in, although I think you could opt to stick with only one storyline at a time, instead of hoping back between the asteroid and intermissions and polo and stuff.

The headings with story arcs further down the page are more an attempt to break the story into manageable chunks (like, an all in one character list would be huge and messy), and to try and partition spoilers a bit.

Do any newer readers have any feedback on how well the wiki page worked? What was helpful, what was confusing? I tried to break down something big and complicated in a way that made sense, but it's hard to be sure how it will actually look to someone starting out.

>assumes setting information
Information about the setting is largely provided on the fly. And when people want to know stuff that isn't answered / explained in the course of the narrative, they hit up ITQ.
>>
No. 96052 ID: 01c6b7

>>96051
>I think you could opt to stick with only one storyline at a time, instead of hoping back between the asteroid and intermissions and polo and stuff.

Well, the exception to that would be the first Intermission, which is part of the "main" Asteroid Quest in the sense that the beginning of Asteroid Quest thread 2 implies that Rokoa had just described its events to Kappi and the CAI. There's also a lot of extra value going through later Asteroid, particularly in regards understanding Rokoa's character, where you'll miss out on without reading the intermission.

I'd suggest sorting the story into "blocks", so for example the first block would be Asteroid 1, the first intermission, and Asteroid 2, and you read all those in order. Then you read parts 3 and 4 of Asteroid ("Itcher Quest"), and that's the second block. Then the third block is Polo Quest, within which would be the sub-block of Polo Quest thread 6 ("Penn Quest") and the Halloween adventure, which can be read before or between any Polo Quest threads up until then but will likely need to be read before getting to a certain point, in the future.

Three Stripes Intermission can be read any time after block 1 has been read, and Asteroid part 5 can be read any time after block 2. The alternate universe quests can also be read after the first block.

New readers should also probably be aware that in Asteroid Quest thread 1, a lot of setting details hadn't been solidified, and some things have been adjusted and retconned, in mostly minor ways, since then.
>>
No. 96055 ID: 3b5176

>>96052
Not a bad idea, though personally I'd put AsteroidQuest thread 2 in Block 2, along with threads 3 and 4.

>>96046
AsteroidQuest thread 1 does not assume any prior knowledge of the reader. However, it begins a bit "in medias res" and assume Hok knows stuff the reader doesn't (hence it has Hok provide most of the exposition).
>>
No. 96059 ID: 67d5dc

>>96055
Yeah, it got more clear as I continued to read the thread.
It just threw me off that nobody was asking for more information before it eventually got explained.
>>
No. 96088 ID: ad936f

>>96051
The wiki page worked wonders, thank you. I just read each thread in order of release and read the ITQs for those threads afterwards.
>>
No. 96121 ID: 3b5176

By the way,
>>95972
Shadowrun: Asteroidverse? That sounds awesome.
>>
No. 96439 ID: 3f3c91

I don't know if this'll get read in the right order, but I just made quite a long post in regards the keep promise/don't keep promise decision in UnSe, and I realized afterward that I left the wording too ambiguous as to what I intended to say, that I was ultimately voting for "keep promise". I tried to delete the post and put up a modified version instead, but it seems my browser randomly forgot to put the password in in the first place, as it has done before, so I can't.

So, if Lago reads this, I'm the poster who made that long suggestion about possibly threatening Rulekeeper and not wanting to, and I want to clarify that my "vote" is to keep the promise, if it happens to be important.
>>
No. 96444 ID: a75d21

>>96121
Done it actually. It works out pretty well.
>>
No. 96445 ID: a75d21

>>95975
There is some president for it. There is a Neumono with cybernetics. A good rule of thumb would be to increase the money cost of all cyber ware by 20% or require at least alpha ware. (not both that would be too much of a bitch)
>>
No. 96450 ID: 88e46e

>>96445
Yeah, and she needs a constant supply of anti-rejection drugs to keep those.
>>
No. 96451 ID: dd338c

>>96445
For the post you were talking about, I was speaking exclusively bioware for neumono.

Cyberware is definitely still more involved for neumono, namely during post-installation upkeep, but it still likely costs more just to make it harder to reject. Probably a pretty good variety of ways on how to implement it into a gameplay balanced setting, regardless.

I'm not too familiar with shadowrun or even just the concept of bioware, but a lot of why cybernetics work is just that the solid machinery can't be easily rejected by the neumono body. Meanwhile, trying to insert organic changes into the body is a lot more difficult to anything past the short term, I imagine, as the body constantly tries to repair itself back to a baseline.
>>
No. 96456 ID: ca0c9d

>>96451

Warning Wall of Text

Bioware is kinda wonky stuff in shadow run. To best describe it, think synthetic pseudo biological organs that when implanted grant bonuses similar or the same as cyber ware. Instead of putting a metal mesh on the skeleton, you increase its density, instead of cybernetic wires and computers in the brain steam and motor cortex to make you react faster, you put in synthetic super neural tissue to do the same thing. The over all effect is that it eats up less of the character essence (which is a limit to how much augmentation you can cram in) but costs more in a monetary value. often between 4 and 10 times as much. Ware has gotten cheaper with each new edition to reflect the technology becoming more available.

Some bio ware is generic and anybody can get it 'off the shelf' so to speak. Some of the more extreme stuff like intelligence and reaction enhancement (that would be the god upgrade, speed is everything is a game like shadow run) you need cultured bio ware which is grown from your own tissue and DNA. It take about a month for any cultured bio ware to be made and it is of course specific to the person it is made for.

I might submit the suggestion that Neumono would need all bio ware to be cultured to them specifically. Even non cultured implants would need the cultured bio ware time and be counted as cultured. Also adding 10% to 20% to the cost to handle the additional difficulty of re-absorption.

This scales to balance the neumono well give their advantages as well

In my game we put them at 30 bp This is 4th ed we never did 5th so I don't know were to adjust them for it.
Body 4-9(13) Agility 1-6(9) Reaction 1-5(7) Strength 3-8(12) Charisma 2-7(10) Intuition 1-5(7) Logic 1/6(9) Willpower 2-7(10) Initiative 2-10(14)

Very Tough: 1/2 body round up in damage before wound penalties effect physical actions;

Decentralized Nervous System: All Wound penalties are x1.5 for mental actions;

Decentralized Anatomy: No called shot can be fatal;

+2 Physical and Stun Condition Boxes; 2x physical overflow boxes;

Regeneration 1 health box per hour, regrow body parts Extended body test on initial damage 1 day interval;

Over Resilient System: all Cyber and bio-ware must be modified for nuemono physiology and their price and is multiplied by 1.2, all bio-ware must be grown for the neumono as per cultured bio-ware
>>
No. 96457 ID: ad936f

I'm missing something, how is Glitcher able to do things retroactively?
>>
No. 96458 ID: 91cfcf

>>96457
IT
JUST
WORKS
>>
No. 96459 ID: ad936f

>>96458
does he force the simulation to revert to an earlier state? if so, then how does that differ from his Time Travel "ability"?
>>
No. 96463 ID: 5ad4a7

>>96459
I think he forces the single node he's running the emulation on to revert to an earlier state. He can't do that for the entire system. Well, maybe he can, but he's worried about the consequences.
>>
No. 96487 ID: d69451

Well. That certainly was a thing that just happened in UnSe. I find it hard to believe she's going to stay dead, but UnSe is all about curveballs! I'm very excited to see what's going to happen now that everything's gone off the rails.

Did you expect people to make this choice, Lago, or were you surprised?
>>
No. 96488 ID: dd338c

>>96457
I'll address this formally next update.

>>96487
It was a pretty fast escalation of not occurring to me this could happen, to thinking that if things happened a certain way this could happen, to there's a reasonable chance this could happen, to this is happening. So I wouldn't say I was surprised since it didn't really come out of the blue rather than go in stages.

I'd be a damn liar though if I said I tried to prevent it.
>>
No. 96515 ID: bb78f2

>I'd be a damn liar though if I said I tried to prevent it.

Lagotrope, do you secretly want to make a quest that ends in a bad end for the protagonist? Not specifically one for Alison, I mean in-general for anything and anyone, maybe just an awful fate for a protagonist, which could either be in a current or future? Just for a change of pace? Or perhaps you would prefer to have something sadistic in mind for the suggestors instead and make them feel bad and give you an evil grinch grin?
>>
No. 96559 ID: 898ae2
File 145041698265.png - (111.66KB , 640x480 , dish.png )
96559

>>
No. 96561 ID: 5ad4a7

>>96559
What's that?
>>
No. 96566 ID: ca0c9d

>>96561
Porn cuisine.
Male Neumono spoo
>>
No. 96567 ID: 02441d

>>96566

I think they're generally larger than that. Unless that's a very big plate.
>>
No. 96609 ID: 898ae2

>>96566
What else?
>>
No. 96618 ID: ea0ad9

>>96609
They're arranged into a pentagonal gemstone (💎) shape, are sitting upon a plate, the plate has four leafs arranged around the potentially-spermatophore pentagon. The plate rests upon a red surface, likely a tablecloth. There is an unidentified glazing over the orbs.

Does that answer your question?
>>
No. 96621 ID: a39a56

>>96618
>They're arranged into a pentagonal gemstone shape, are sitting upon a plate, the plate has four leafs arranged around the potentially-spermatophore pentagon. The plate rests upon a red surface, likely a tablecloth. There is an unidentified glazing over the orbs.

It menaces with spikes of obsidian.
>>
No. 96690 ID: 5ad4a7

It occurs to me that, now that we know previous cycles are essentially preserved, and that Rulekeeper and Glitcher combined can rewind the simulation to resurrect anyone from any time, Sevener/Anya's plan to rescue like 1000 contestants(or whatever proportionately low number it was) might actually be a good idea.

We just have to include Glitcher and Rulekeep in those 1000, and they can restore everyone else afterwards via Time Travel. Well, I imagine they'd have to be a bit more selective than "everyone" to save on CPU cycles and reduce the raw chaos of having all those people of varying moralities and personality sharing the same space, but we'd be eliminating the tragedy of the Multi-CAI process by allowing all those AIs a chance to live a normal life. Heck, we probably SHOULD restore everyone in some way, even the evil or crazy AIs. Just figure out some way to quarantine them but give them some meaningful existence until they're satisfied enough to pass on.

Really the only problem is that it might not be *possible* to preserve an active Glitcher past the CAI Battle, or whatever Anya's 1000-man plan is.
>>
No. 96691 ID: 5ad4a7

We should also:
1) Ask Glitcher/Rulekeep if they can find the Ghost, or look at the history of the stage to at least find evidence that people have been disappearing
2) Look at a Devotee's past to see where it came from and if it can be reverted to the contestant it used to be if they used to be one (I suspect the Ghost is actually Corruptor turning random contestants into his devotees)
3) Look for patterns in the structure of the simulation that could be exploited to hack open a connection to the outside world. This is unlikely to be possible until Rulekeeper is in charge of all stages.
>>
No. 96692 ID: 5ad4a7

and we can finally, FINALLY find out what CU stands for.
>>
No. 96699 ID: 977a6a

>>96690
I think the problem with the plan that previous Alisons betrayed previous Seveners over was less that it only saved a set number of people, and more only saved the few who were still alive at that point in the cycle. (And/or that it would perma-kill Glitcher to use that route). >>/questarch/496366

Theoretically, if Glitcher / Rulekeep gain access to every AI that's ever lived via "time travel" we should be able to evac everyone at once (if we can keep alternate Corruptors, Glitchers and Saviors from interfering. Maybe keep them paused as we pull them out?). The problem with evacing a small advance group is once they're out, they might lose access to everyone else they wanted to rescue. (Or worst case, that the escape route damages or wrecks the sim in the process, killing anyone we leave behind, for good).

And obviously we don't want to go with a plan that for-real kills Glitcher if we can help it. At the very least, we should learn what Sevener's / Anya's previous escape route was, and see if it can be improved upon.

>>96692
I always assumed it was "Credit Units" and it just sort of became a running gag that no one bothered to define the abbreviation inside the simulation.

>>96695
>>96698
The biggest flaw with this theory is humans (and the other species) have archaeological records that support their slow natural evolution over time, or else they would have made a big deal of it by now, and would be actively looking for more evidence left by a precursor species. Which means any 'seeding' of alien worlds, if it happened, would have had to have taken place a long time ago, on an evolutionary time scale. Long enough to appear natural.

And, unfortunately, we know exactly how long ago the Belenosian empire was at it's height. (Not long enough). They left behind digital storage that's still intact, and all someone has to do to show how old they are is look at any pictures of the stars that survived. The sky is the universe's timepiece. You can figure out when and where something happened from the observable positions of the stars.

(Or if not starmaps, you could probably date the Belenosian empire collapse by checking the decay of the radioactive isotopes that must have been released when they nuked and mega-laser-blasted everything to death. Or by sending an ftl ship outside the system, and finding the light shell from the world ending explosions 9000 light years out. And/or finding the edge of the transmission shell where their radio / communication broadcasts suddenly stop when they regressed to the stone age).

tl;dr- it's provable it only happened 9000 years ago, which isn't long enough for seeded life to have appeared to evolved naturally. There would still be discrepancies modern science could find.

To say nothing of the fact that the empire would have considered ftl 'disruptive technology'. The kind of AI police state with EIN looking over everything and giving a few individuals absolute power isn't possible over ftl distances.

There's also the tidbit that Astreneus V is actually an older world than Belenos IV (or the other sapient race homeworlds). Part of the reason why there's such ridiculous biodiversity on the neumono homeworld is that life has had more time to work on it.
>>
No. 96703 ID: 5ad4a7

>>96699
>looking at the light shell via ftl to view the history of Belenos
Hey, I wonder if it's possible to use that to find out information about how Jetals worked.
>>
No. 96705 ID: 977a6a

>>96703
Seems unlikely, at best. I'd think the actual data in a transmission traveling thousands of years through open space would suffer considerable degradation. And even if you could record / decode in it in passing, the odds of finding a complete how-to-jealium guide in and among the mundane communications chatter, television and radio programs, etc, would be pretty bad. Data-mining a civilization's light shell, if possible, would be a heck of a long term sifting project.

But heck, for all we know, there could be data-prospectors in the deep, hoping to hit it rich.
>>
No. 96706 ID: 5ad4a7

>>96705
Welllllll, mainly I'd expect at least some indication of how powerful they were. All anyone has to go on are legends, right? No footage of a Jetal in action, or anything?

Heck it could be Jetals weren't quicksilver-type shapeshifters and were more like modular robots made up of small pieces.
>>
No. 96707 ID: 729824

>>96699
>>96705

The transmissions shell, even if it weren't degraded, wouldn't provide that much, unfortunately. Transmissions being beamed out into space at high power is actually a result of a very inefficient way to do things, wasting a lot of power. There are estimates that we'll stop broadcasting any such noticeable stuff ourselves in a decade or two.

So, you might catch a glimpse of the belenosians when they were at about our level of development, but not any of the super science.
>>
No. 96742 ID: 88e46e

So I got bored and decided to write a crack smut fic for Asteroidverse. Turned out longer than I intended, so here’s a few pages of gay Pilon/Az buttsex I wrote to pass a few hours, complete with a surprise twist ending that justified writing the entire thing as far as I’m concerned. Posting in the disthread because it’s not a drawing and I expect I got some canon details wrong.

Ultraking Az rozu Gunblocker was in his element, and he loved it. Now that they had started using nukes, he was finally finished listening to his wussy advisors calling him hot-blooded and reckless, and he could finally lead his troops in a glorious charge against the warhive. The jammer was on and he had empathetically told his troops to break off from their head-on assault and swerve through some cover to an unprotected side of the warhive’s building.

It was only after he had arrived that Az realized he had done those two in the wrong order and left himself alone at the side entrance. Mentally he cursed, but he wasn’t too upset. Although his troops couldn’t see or sense him through the woods, he wasn’t too far and there was only one guard to deal with. Az was confident that he could beat any one neumono and return to his troops at the lightly-guarded exterior before his advisors got more ammunition for calling him reckless. He closed in fast enough that neither were able to use sidearms effectively, and the guard laughed mirthlessly as they drew plasma swords.

“Son of a bitch, are you really dumb enough to attack by yourself?”

Az couldn’t help but stare at her gigantic ears and regret that they were obviously his gigantic ears, and noticed that their blades weren’t the only things extended. He still didn’t regret his hot blood so much as the fact that it was coursing into his dick, rather obviously so even through the bio-armor.

“What, do I not look cocky enough to pull it off to you?”

Az’s attempt at a witty rejoinder didn’t help him manage his intensifying erection or his growing lust and embarrassment as the lone guard proved to be more skilled than he had expected. This was a man. A man, no matter how much Az wished the guard was a woman. And Az was a veteran; his cock really shouldn’t be betraying him like this when things were actually turning out to be dangerous. But it did, and Az’s reflexes slowed. Not enough to stop him from parrying the plasma sword, but enough to throw off his footwork and let the guard trip him. His breath tightened as his opponent stepped on his chest and lowered the blade to Az’s vulnerable stomach.

“Doesn’t look like you were. What, did you think this was one of your porn sims? Now turn off the jammer, I want to know if you’re worth interrogating.”

Az obeyed, a blush working its way across his face and down his body as he felt the contact, first physical and then empathetic. He looked up to get a last look at his captor’s- Pilon’s- ears and heard him laugh again, louder this time.

“Ultraking Az? Seriously? Son of a bitch, you seriously think with your dick badly enough to rush ahead and lose this badly at a swordfight? Well, good news. If you’re here, I’m pretty sure my hive is going to lose anyway, I’ll get killed if I execute you, and I’ve been disagreeing with my hive lately. In fact, I haven’t had a lay for a while, so I’ll give you a choice. Either I knock you out or I fuck you until I run empty. Should keep you out of the fight either way.”

Az wanted to fuck those ears so badly, and he knew it. It was easy to feel how pent-up Pilon was as he tore at his bio-armor’s crotch slit and gave Az a look at his dick. It was flaccid, and still easily as large as Az’s erection. It was huge and still getting longer and thicker. Mass—

“Damn, you really care about size, don’t you? Here you go, Ultraking, something more like your shitty pornos to rub it in.”

Pilon crouched just beside Az’s face and cockslapped him, still chuckling at his humiliation. Pilon continued rubbing it across Az’s eyes and bouncing it off of Az’s face until he got bored, moving to straddle Az’s hips as he undid his captive’s crotch slit to expose Az’s own erection.

“Alright, since you like comparing our dicks so much you can jerk both of us off. Get started, bitch.”

Pilon pinned Az, trapping the prisoner’s penis under his own and covering it easily. Dignity gone, Az obeyed without hesitating and masturbated eagerly, breathing heavily as he was allowed to stroke Pilon’s dick. Soon enough, a large ball of semen erupted from Pilon and collided with Az’s eye, falling onto his ear.

“Pretty good distance on that one, good job. Now give me some lip service.”

“…I love how big and thick your cock is and I can’t wait to stuff it in m—“

“That’s cute and flattering and all but what I meant is time to suck my dick, bitch. Come on, an infamous womanizer like you should know how to give a good blowjob by now.”

Pilon grabbed Az by the base of one ear as he rose, pulling the disgraced ultraking onto his knees and shoving his dick down his bitch’s throat in one swift action. He grunted in satisfaction when Az proved him right, being happy to deepthroat him as fast as he could. Az was pretty good at it, but after he swallowed the first load he backed up and made eye contact, feeling like he expected some kind of reward.

“Nah, I’m not done with your face yet and your reward is getting to stay conscious, I’m not giving you anything extra. Keep up that eye contact, though, you’ve got cute eyes when you’re begging.”

Pilon grabbed the other ear and slammed Az back down to the base of his dick. His bitch was still being nice and obedient, maintaining eye contact all the while he was being throatfucked. They clouded when Az started having to hold his breath, but Pilon didn’t really care. He was an ultraking of a war hive, after all, he should be able to hold his breath for an hour or two, and he was still swallowing all the cum he was given. A long while later, Pilon was finally satisfied with his captive’s mouth, and he let go as he withdrew.

“Alright, bitch, face down, ass—oh, good, you’re already doing that. Maybe you’re just tired, but either way you’re giving me what I want. Good little bitch. I think I’ll let you cum this time. Maybe I’ll even keep you.”

Az felt his cock throb when Pilon mocked his size and promised an orgasm. Breathlessly he tried waggling his hips to please his master. Maybe then he’d be allowed to catch his breath. But Pilon was having none of it, and only paused to grab Az’s hips and thrust once between his cheeks to taunt his captive before finally fucking his ass. He was nice enough to start slowly, penetrating a little deeper each time until he bottomed out, but from there the pace increased until it felt like Az’s legs would give out from how hard Pilon’s hips were ramming against his own. He loved it. Az felt his last scrap of resistance break as he admitted to himself that he had loved being dominated and humiliated, that he had loved having his face fucked, and that he would love to be Pilon’s pet if it meant he could get fucked like this forever. Pilon laughed as he noticed Az’s submission and his twitching erection.

“Son of a bitch, you like big dick that much? You like having your body fail you? You really are the perfect bitch. Can’t even cum. Can’t shoot your own gel by yourself. Can’t use your pathetic tiny dick properly. Do it, bitch. Cum for me.”

Az moaned as he felt his mind dissolve in lust and any desire to object that his penis was slightly above average and it was perfectly normal to need help getting it out when he wasn’t full vanished. He swiveled his hips to match Pilon’s thrusts and tried his best to eject his spermatophore, desperate to please his master. He failed, to no one’s surprise, and Pilon wrapped his arms around Az’s chest and waist for stability as he continued brutally sodomizing his new toy, to Az’s delight. Finally, after another hour or more passed and Pilon felt his semen almost running dry, he decided to have mercy on his pet with his final orgasm.

“Alright, it’s been long enough. I’ll let you finish with me, so be grateful, bitch.”

The arm around Az’s waist descended to wrap a hand around his cock, stroking and squeezing as Pilon pumped furiously. He felt his orgasm building in his loins, increasing the pace to force Az into orgasm as they both emptied themselves. Pilon grinned as he felt Az’s prepare himself for a mind-shattering orgasm, complete with frantic twitching and loud moaning and gasping, with “Pilon” and “fuck me” thrown in for good measure.

As the fire built to the point of climax, Az felt himself erupt out of his dream into wakefulness—wait, what the fuck? Frantically he looked around, and found himself in bed with Vivili, and otherwise alone in a brothel room, with no one else in sensing range. He sighed in relief, grateful that she was still asleep and they hadn’t shared the dream. There was just one more thing to take care of. Az grabbed a bottle of hand lotion as he headed into a hot shower, determined to get Pilon out of his head for the day, especially the ears and dick. He turned on the water as he quashed a faint hope that Pilon would keep his bitch after all the next time he had that dream.
>>
No. 96770 ID: 34ba49

Need more be said happy new years to all of you out theree
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No. 96772 ID: 623ef0

>>96770

Happy new year to you too, suspected bot.
>>
No. 96795 ID: 1d157d

I believe the current UnSe thread is the first time Lagotrope has written a second-person quest. I'll be interested in seeing how the writing style compares to the previous threads. Was this an intentional attempt at experimentation, or just sort of a random thing?
>>
No. 96803 ID: dd338c

>>96795
An intentional experiment; as you believed, I've never done second person before.

Also worth noting, since it was more subtle, things changed from third person to first person during Glitcher's segment.
>>
No. 96821 ID: 88e46e

>>96742
I realize the board is probably dead, but I'd like some commentary on this, even if it's just "ew get your unfunny fic out of here" or "no one is interested." If anyone is concerned, it's meant to be more humor than porn, with the pun, OOC behavior, and "surprise twist ending".
>>
No. 96822 ID: d0901a

>>96821

Well, I don't know about "no one", but once I got the gist of what it was going to be, I wasn't interested, so I didn't read it.
>>
No. 96823 ID: 90f3c0

>>96821

The idea of Az being obsessed with Pilon after seeing his magnificent sexy ears is pretty amusing, and it worked well with the cliche twist ending. I liked the reversal of the expected roles, but the sex could be more descriptive.

Az X Pilon OTP, would probably read more.
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No. 96824 ID: d0868f

>>96821
Haha, sorry, I opened this in a tab thinking I would get to it later, and then forgot about it.

My first impression was to be amused that this was another take on how the Intermission could have gone differently. (It sure feels like a complicated VN / choose your own adventure sometimes, sure were a lot of ways it could have gone).

I was kind of bugged by Pilon's portrayal, which really didn't feel in character for me (I most love crack ships when they make an effort to try and keep people true to themselves despite absurd situations / pairings), even if it ends up justified by it being not Pilon, but Az's fantasy dream version of Pilon.

Can't really comment on how good the actual smut is, humiliation / degradation isn't really my thing.

It might be appropriate to put elit between spoiler tags?
>>
No. 96825 ID: 211d83

>>96821

I enjoyed it. Well written Tales from the pornoverse are always welcome.
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No. 96826 ID: 88e46e

First of all, I'd like to say I appreciate the responses. Coming back to find this was pretty nice, and I thank all of you for your time.

>>96822
Fair enough. Is there anything you would be interested in, smut, Asteroidverse, or not?

>>96823
Glad you liked it. The smut probably could be improved, but I happen to be straight and somewhat unsure I could write gay sex well even if I were particularly experienced with sex in general. Plus it was meant to be more silly than smut.

>>96824
Also happy that more than one enjoyed it, although it doesn't seem terribly out of character to me. Pilon was noted for saying son of a bitch a lot when he first appeared as a hostile character. He did quickly become friendly, but he was hardly friendly when dealing with intruders. I also don't think we know his particular kinks, so while the dominance stuff isn't supported it's not impossible either.

>>96825
Thanks! It's probably getting repetitive but I'm always happy to hear someone liked my work. If it's not too much trouble, could you specify what you thought made it well-written?
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No. 96827 ID: d0868f

>>96826
In the Intermission, Pilon came across as more angry or frustrated in his hostile interactions than mean about it, to me. Part of the reason he won such respect from us so quickly was that he was a fundamentally good natured son of a bitch, leaving a better first impression when we were pretty literally holding a gun to the head of everyone he knew and cared about than any of the warhivers we'd encountered in the field previously. Which sort of feels like it runs too much contrary to a degrade the slut POW situation.

But then again any alt events fic has too take liberties somewhere to happen, and it's pretty subjective how much of a liberty is too far / immersion breaking. (And crack fics by nature pretty much rely on refuge in audacity). ((And again, any perceived inaccuracies in Pilon's portrayal are justified by the internal subjectivity of the way the story is framed)).

That and the "I’ve been disagreeing with my hive lately" rang hollow for me, considering he only went along with our plans reluctantly and for the good of his hive (and insisted on giving the Queen one last chance), and he wouldn't / won't go rogue for another 20 years, after their situation had changed dramatically.
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No. 96828 ID: 88e46e

>>96827
True. It may be justified by plot but I'd like it to not need that justification, if that makes sense. And I doubt the disagreements only started after those 20 years, since he did agree to kill the queen and thought killing her would be for the best. I should probably have said queen instead of hive in that sentence, but from what I understand of neumono group psychology there's a very large overlap between the queen and the hive, what with how a lot of monarchs don't have names because they're seen as metaphorically/literally being the hive. I do agree about him being good-natured, and even if it's not mutually exclusive with the slut POW thing it probably needs more of an explanation why he was behaving unusual, whether he was having a bad day from the queen going nuts, he disliked Az, or he was just really into that.
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No. 96829 ID: d0868f

>>96828
Queen-hive separation / distinction is kind of a complicated thing, especially in the case of the warhive where it didn't seem like the situation was completely healthy or normal to begin with.

It was more like the Red Queen was say, on the extreme right wing of her hive than a representation of the center or the whole. For example, Rokoa would have been way out on the left with her fighting with honor, The Queen would have been out on the right full on embracing backstabbing and double dealing as a matter of course, while the actual hive's feeling was a more neutral "do what you have to do". ( >>/questarch/437968 ). Or there was the fact the Queen was pushing to finish the spire facility battle when the rest of the hive would have been willing to withdraw / retreat earlier (and in fact, the mood swung that way as soon as her influence was gone). Or the (ironic and strangely contradictory) fact she was the driving impetus for trying to get the hive to turn over a new leaf / find a more peaceful (mercenary) norm off-world when the majority was pretty much accustomed to being at constant war with everyone around them ( >>/questarch/430014 ).

(The really interesting bit with the last part is that the Red Queen's actions / decisions while we saw her in power seemed to actually run counter to / impede that stated goal, but once she was dead, her hive seemed determined to live up to that in her memory. Removing the person who held that particular fringe view actually got it moved to the center).

I mean, when you come right down to it, Rokoa, Pilon and the Red Queen herself all thought they were acting in the best interest of the hive- even when they didn't agree with each other (and Pilon and Rokoa were both willing to draw distinctions between the hive as a whole and the Queen as a person). But it works out as something as a bad example of intrahive conflict / disagreement when we know Pilon ends up rogue, Rokoa is definitely not in a healthy relationship with her hive, and the Queen was so far gone Rokoa could see her as rogue.

And unfortunately, we don't really have a good example of a healthy / normal hive operation and/or intrahive conflict to compare to. Gianthive is kind of too small to draw meaningful distinctions between the members / trends, and in most other cases we either know hive-members without knowing the King/Queen (like Sealock, or most of Polo's current allies), or we know the King/Queen but not their hivemates very well (like Az, Vivili) Nor have we really had the chance to see significant conflict resolutions inside other hives.

Plus, the whole unhealthy mess is still shaking out in the current plot. Even if the situation has evolved and/or festered over the decades, exactly what's going wrong in the warhive's / asteroid hive's internal structure is a significant, largely unexplored plot point.
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No. 96849 ID: 0f2de7

>>96829
>or we know the King/Queen but not their hivemates very well (like Az, Vivili)

Wait, is Vivili Queen of her hive? I didn't notice any mention of that.
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No. 96850 ID: 88e46e

>>96849
She's the queen of the brothel hive, yeah, iirc.
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No. 96890 ID: 700555
File 145214002984.png - (86.15KB , 500x800 , spacegoatscoasttocoast.png )
96890

>>96283
>The front of our necks stretch out better than many other species
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No. 96895 ID: 99a64d

>>96829
The more I think about Neumono hive mechanics the more I agree with father Zozu, shit's fucked.
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No. 96901 ID: 15917d

>>96895

Shit certainly can be fucked, and in nature, particularly when things have gone wrong, often are fucked. With some understanding and forethought and self-honesty, though, shit can remain unfucked, and you can reap the plentiful benefits while avoiding the downsides.

Like pretty much any aspect of organic existence, really. You could say similar things about the psychology of individuals as you could about hives.
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No. 96902 ID: 88e46e

>>96895
That's roughly like looking at one abusive household and deciding families as a whole are fucked. Every social structure has the potential to be really messed up, because we still don't have an utopia.
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No. 96903 ID: 15917d

>>96902

Plus, neumono are only recently subjects of study, and aliens will have a hard time studying the nature of the hive mind at all, so it's going to be a long time before there's an understanding of what can go wrong and how to fix it.

Like, in human society, we now recognize PTSD as a thing, how it occurs and what is symptoms are, and what it does to the brain, and we have support systems for the military and other groups who are prone to it, which make preparations so it's less likely to happen and who treat it when it does. But we used to call it (and a couple of other things) "battle fatigue", a thing that just happened to soldiers, and the cure was to toughen up and get over it.

Neumono, in regards hive psychology, are pretty much still in that stage. By Asteroid Quest's time, it hass probably developed a bit in the wider galaxy, but the warhive aren't in a position to benefit.
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No. 96907 ID: 99a64d

>>96901
>>96902
>>96903
Obviously we're going to focus on the hives that are the most fucked up due to rule of drama, seeing average well-adjusted people having normal social lives isn't as fun as watching shit go down when people who are supposed to get along don't. But there are so many different ways that a hive's shit can be fucked, in fact the whole system is fucked. When it comes to rouges the hive system basically becomes a perpetual tragedy machine. Imagine a situation where if you ever changed too much, not even necessarily for the worse, you could end up with a mutual passionate hate for all your friends and family. And then, assuming that they didn't murder you, you could never make any new friends/start a new family, except for with aliens who've only been around for the last couple hundred years, and who you can never really be friends/family with in in the same way you were with your old ones, and they're probably at least a bit racist against you, not that you could tell, you can't read their faces properly or even truly empathize with them. This system naturally created so much xenophobia that it managed to keep their technology at the stone age for millions of years and probably would have done so indefinitely without the intervention of a higher power. And that's not even mentioning how it creates the possibility of literal mind control.

Of course that's not to say that human style individuality is perfect, far from it (see; all of Shakespeare's tragedies aside from Romeo and Juliet, the plot of Evangelion, and basically every awkward situation or misunderstanding in human history). Rather I believe that it takes some of the worst bits of human social structure, xenophobia, group-think, and social ostracism, and amplifies them while not really adding a whole lot.
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No. 96908 ID: 88e46e

>>96907
>if
Not very likely.
>probably at least a bit racist against you
Racist assumption itself.

>stone age for millions of years
Hahaha, wow. First of all, millions of years isn't even relevant, that's like saying humans suck because we've only had civilization for 10,000 or so years out of millions. They did have science hives pre-aliens, and they did manage to survive despite voklit, salikai, predator, wendigo, and everything else competing with them. Assuming everyone was stone age is a bit ridiculous.

Like you said, rule of drama and you're seriously inflating the negative consequences or overlooking bad things that happened to other races in your comparisons. Belenos had their dystopian science empire, yich eaters barely thought an entire gender were really people, human history is full of war, slavery, and genocide, heef practiced live sacrifices on a mass scale, and pomi... are relatively okay, comparatively, although I suspect that's because we don't know much. They do have that weird fetal gene-tampering thing that fucked up Sheet's immune system, as I recall.
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No. 96909 ID: 88e46e

>>96907
>>96908
Continuing because I thought of more and I can't edit. Imagine what would happen if aliens looked at Earth and only saw things like Rwanda, North Korea, or fundamentalist families disowning/torturing LGBT youth. Rokoa's warhive was a special kind of fucked up. The asteroid is a shithole specifically for criminals, akin to early colonial Australia.

Shit absolutely is fucked at times, but that's an universal constant. It's not as common in neumono society or as unique as you seem to think it is.
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No. 96910 ID: 99a64d

>>96908
>>96909
My point was not was not that Neumono suck, but that the hive system and psychic empathy are bad and have been holding them back. The fact that some of them were able to get guns and agriculture while in groups of like ~100 (not to mention the oven-mitt hands) just helps to prove my point, humans only had to figure that shit out once, Neumono have been inventing and forgetting that shit since there've been Neumono, and they needed literal alien intervention to get past that. Imagine how far they could've gotten if they hadn't been genetically shackled to tribalism. Neumono are clearly capable of invention, in fact they're quite clearly better at it than humans were, but they were held back by in-species violence and xenophobia. Obviously SNAFU is a universal constant, but at any given point things can be more or less fucked up, and Neumono hives lean decidedly towards more fucked up. Rouges may not be exceedingly common but they aren't exactly rare, and more importantly they're a problem that non-hiveminded species do not have at all. Overt specism (specieism?) might not be so common, but most people could be reasonably expected to be at least a bit subconsciously prejudiced against the violent hiveminded carnivorous cannibalistic space bunnies. Obviously looking only at one of the most broken hives is not going to give a good impression of them, but even ignoring the ways hives can break down their normal functioning is still seriously fucked, or at the very least their functioning creates more problems for Neumono than it solves.
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No. 96911 ID: 88e46e

>>96910
>they're quite clearly better at it than humans were
Based on what?
>most people could be reasonably expected to be at least a bit subconsciously prejudiced against the violent hiveminded carnivorous cannibalistic space bunnies.
I'm starting to think you're projecting a bit here.

>psychic empathy
Literally nothing wrong with empathy that you've described. The hive system is what causes all the problems you're complaining about.

That said, sure, the hive system's drawbacks have slowed some things. Again, the same's true of every other system. How much progress has been lost to political corruption? Does it mean that democracy is inherently bad? I seriously think you're assuming that some perfect system with no downsides is realistically attainable and that neumono could achieve it if not for hives, and frankly that seems naive of you. If you think getting rid of hives would improve neumono, then I suggest you consider what would replace it, unless you're seriously saying that neumono-hives=utopia, which I doubt.
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No. 96913 ID: 3a57f7

>>96910
>Imagine how far they could've gotten if they hadn't been genetically shackled to tribalism.

The hive problems did contribute, but I think the perpetual tribalism has more to do with living on Planet Junglemurder. Plus, we've already seen part of how one science hive was seduced by a salikai, subordinated as minions and have been gradually dying out ever since, and we know that the salikai apparently have a huge secret society going on. It's very likely that a lot of nascent neumono civilizations got deliberately sabotaged. So, blaming it all on the empathic problems isn't accurate.

Besides which, I have a theory that the hive-xenophilia response was actually a beneficial development for the species. It naturally limits how large a neumono population can be in one area. Given how incredibly ravenous neumono are, and how quickly they starve to death, a too-large population of neumono would eat themselves out of existence very easily. So, on top of the lethal environment and the other sentient species trying to stop you getting uppity, a potential neumono civilization would have to have also lucked into sufficient agricultural technology to sustain a larger population.

Considering there are some references to ancient ultrahives existing, I'd say the extra-hive xenophobia did help hold them back, but wasn't "the" reason they were stuck for so long. I mean, salikai and voklit both have enough intelligence that they "should" have developed technologically too, and they don't have empathy at all.

>their functioning creates more problems for Neumono than it solves

Empathy by itself is a massive advantage. Instant silent communication over short distances with people you know well, elimination of a lot of common misunderstandings, elimination of snobbery and false pride, reduction in discrimination based on physical attributes, a predilection for some humility and understanding, a habit towards honesty, the ability to know what someone wants more accurately than language can convey, an easier/quicker time learning things if you have someone who knows it already to learn from, the ability to make new friends quickly and easily, a massive reduction in pretentiousness, instant recognition of when people are being friendly to you for ulterior motives, et cetera et cetera. There's a lot of bullshit that neumono get to cut out of their lives entirely.

Like, in an office environment, there's a lot of social shit, and all sorts of posturing and manipulation and so on. Some guy talking up some project because he wants to show off, or filling a meeting's agenda with shit to eliminate the time for people to backtalk him, or wasting everyone's time to brownnose the boss, bluh bluh and so on and in a lot of other workspaces as well. Neumono, however, would catch on to that nonsense for what it is immediately, and how they feel about it would be immediately made clear. And, like, if the big boss has a dumb idea that they're really into, and everyone else thinks it's dumb, other species might back off or keep quiet or otherwise not correct him because of not wanting to upset him or social standing or whatever. But if they're neumono then everyone knows what everyone's thinking. Like, The Phantom Menace wouldn't have been what it was if George Lucas had been a neumono, I bet you. Neumono businesses are probably a lot more efficient and productive than alien ones, in the long run. Neumono by nature are close to reality in a way other species aren't.

It's true that empathy can be hacked, but there are chemical and psychological tricks for hacking the brains of other species, too. You could say the same things about how we can be mentally affected by drugs as for how neumono are affected by empathy, the creation of social outcasts, conflict between large groups, and so on. And with Three Stripes we can see that that hacking can be used for beneficial purposes as well.

Like, in time, being a rogue could become only a temporary thing. You leave your hive, do a tour of the world to find another hive that you fit with almost right, and then a predator smooths over the edges.

Even without predators, and if the aliens all suddenly disappeared, I'm pretty sure the neumono could go on pretty well from where they are now. There's a momentum to civilization, they'll have to stay in ultrahives to compete with the other ultrahives. And being raised and conditioned to overcome the extra-hive xenophobia seems to work really well, just look at Roxie. The neumono may have needed a boost to get over their initial hump, but now that they're on the road I think they'll pretty easily be able to keep it going. And if that's the case, they could have reached civilization on their own. They just needed luck, and evolving on Murderbeast Rock just meant they didn't manage it before.
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No. 96943 ID: 61fd94

Shifting gears here for a minute, I'd like to talk about what we do know about the major hives that star in the story, rather than bemoan stuff we don't like I was doing here. >>96829 I've been meaning to try and write up some hive-analysis for ages.

Warning: Wall of Words


Hive specific traits:
Think personality traits, except on a hive-scale.

Sealock:
Polo's been our main character / narrator for approximately half the quest. The biggest difficulty is this is an inherently skewed perspective, centered on one person, and we don't know many other characters from her hive for comparison. Still, we've interacted enough with Rakae and Mikali, and asked Polo enough about her hive, that we can make some educated guesses as to what's the hive, and what's just Polo.

* Administrative / clerical / military theory / modern bent, in general
Quotes:

>>/questarch/515697
>>"What does your hive do?"
>"Office labor. Telecommunications especially. We have a few people as military officers as well, as we know a good deal about military theory."
>>/questdis/65381
>We are not a warhive, but we do often have military support operations and experimentations. The move to silence was among the biggest hivewide projects as a experimentation. These days, we mostly deal with using technology. Despite experimentation and that, however, I would not say we are a science hive, just... modern, perhaps.

Speculation:
One idea that's occurred to me is that their skillset / focus isn't solely military applicable. If they took a marketing approach, it might be possible to cash in on Polo's fame / celebrity with the hive acting as producers / agents / publicists, etc. making money off of her image and the rights to movies, games, etc. And they're certainly going to need to find some way to recoup what they lost when their home was nuked and they had to come to the Tree as essentially refugees. The existence of several video games, and a movie and/or television series in the future could support Sealock having already gone this route.

* Something of a prankster bent
Evidence:
* Polo, obviously
* The kick the hive seems to be getting out of faking Polo's death, and anticipation of the reveal. (Although we hear about this second hand from Polo).
* Mikali's tendency to take and share embarrassing photographs

* Better than average at cooperating outside of their own hive (?)
(I'm less sure this is a characteristic of the hive versus circumstance)
Evidence:
* Rikek chose (or was chosen) to stay with Sealock, despite Sealock's independent (and technical warhive) status, when their were ultrahives and safer nexi available on the planet.
* Even more than that, they trusted Rikek to go alone on a life and death mission with Polo.
* Despite being a loner infiltrator, Polo's the one making friends and largely responsible for making peace between the members of the inspection team in Polo Quest.
* And she's the one who befriended a predator prior to that
* Rakae organized cooperation with Kork and Tirrek (while Polo was out of it and we were playing as Three Stripes) despite very recently being enemies.
* Rakae, along with Rikek, also convinced Gianthive to evac the spire while Polo was running around with Rokoa. Although she might deserve less credit there, as it would have been mediated by Three Stripe trusting Polo, and Gianthive trusting Three Stripes.

One irony remains that despite Sealock embracing / self describing as 'modern', and their apparent relative ease working with / cooperating with outsiders, they were independent prior to the AsteroidQuest Intermission, and considered a warhive by technicality. They had actually declined previous invitations to join an ultrahive.

* Determination (?)
Examples:
* It's pretty much Polo's defining or central trait.
* Rakae shows it in a few scenes, when it counts. Usually when standing up for Polo. (For instance, when she delivered an ultimatum to Rokoa's face before Polo and Rokoa left for the warship).


Warhive / Asteroid Hive:
The hive we actually know the most characters from. The complication here is that the people we know best are among those who aren't actually very representative and/or went rogue (Rokoa, Pilon, Kappi, the Red Queen, Lakkat), and we don't know the more representative members (Kara, Kork, Tirrik, Wasao, etc.) as well. We've also seen the hive grow and change from a nomadic snow hive to a modern warhive to... whatever they are on the asteroid. This is something of a blessing and a curse as it gives us more perspective, but it also makes them more dynamic.

* They pretty much default to violence / conflict. It's a big part of how they interact with the world, and to a certain extent, each other.
Evidence:
* They only managed to pick a fight with basically an entire planet. The ultrahives, an independent hive, underground forces who opposed the ultras. They were even essentially holding the representatives of the off-world corporation supplying them hostage by the end.
* Even on the asteroid, where the hive has apparently bowed to the necessity of some diplomacy, it was of "do what we want under the threat of force" variety.
* The way past-Rokoa had to prove herself against Maro
* The Red Queen surpassed the prior queen by beating her in a fight

* They see violence as something of a competition, sometimes to the point that it hurts practicality
* (overlaps with) Respect (sometimes grudging) for a worthy foe
Evidence:
* Rokoa, although she's an extreme example for her hive
* The hive's behavior with Polo- instead of using multiple units to flank and overwhelm her, once they realized she was a worthy opponent, they sent QI champions at her one by one.
* It's how the old snow hive basically assimilated / absorbed the redgrass hive they used to compete with- breeding with worthy opponents.
* There's a good chance this is how Kallan and Rikora ever hooked up in the first place (although we don't know the particulars).
* Rokoa also suggested this was what mediated their relations with voklit tribes

Speculation:
This is possibly related to why they still show some respect for rogue-Pilon? Even if he left / betrayed them, they remember how good he was. (Or they see his leaving as evidence of their own failing / weakness?).

* Old hive - goes back at least 200 years, getting bigger over most of that, without a known schism
* Unconfirmed how unusual this is, we don't really have good data on 'lifespans' of hives
* One theory is that the hive's problem on the asteroid is they've overdue for a schism, although we don't know what issue / idea they might splinter on.

* At least part of what makes their political position on the Asteroid unusual is they seem to have decided they are responsible for dealing with (hunting down) their rogues. Most modern hives have grown more tolerant, and even primitive / tribal hives who killed their rogues likely wouldn't have been willing or able to spend resources hunting down those who escaped.
* Their exact feelings / motivations remain unexplained, and we're only heard of this secondhand from rogues who never really understood the hive's psychology in the first place, or from the hive's actions.


The Science hive:
We know Korli best, we're also familiar with Niam, Likol, Moi and Ramella (although most of her appearances have been Christmasverse and Pornverse, outside the main continuity).

* Science focus, obviously. So far we've seen:
* Modern military tech, with custom designed weapons and armor (better than what is commercially available, as Polo as adopted both for her own gear).
* Custom bioarmor (the optical stealth suits)
* Direct interface with empathy (the relays, the bugs)
* Mind control (predator and bug research, although that might be more of the salikai's thing).
* Cryogenic storage of various monsters
* AI / CAI tech
* cloning
* artificial growth hormones
* lesbian gas

We know that like "warhive", "science hive" is a broad classification and that there are many of them out there (there's at least one involved in the background of the Three Stripes Intermission, for example). It's hard to say if the things they've been working on fits into a theme / focus / specialization that makes them distinct from other science hives. That, and what they're researching is significantly influenced by the interests of their salikai masters.

* There's a generational split, between the older more jaded members who remember life before they were enslaved, and the younger, more bubbly / carefree members who were born to it. (Mirim, Likol, and Niam would be members of the older guard, while Korli, Moi and Ramella would be of the new generation).
* The split may also have something to do with where they are in the hive's hierarchy, and not entirely slavery-motivated. Academia is somewhat embittering / sobering / competitive.

* The younger generation is suffering from a certain amount of pent up repression due to the environment they grew up in.
* Korli's nsfw escapades after joining the ultrahive (although they've pretty much only been mentioned in /draw/, itq and irc).
* Possibly Moi / Biles, although that hasn't actually had the chance to happen yet at the current point in the story.

* There's a shared clothing preference / quirk: pretty much everyone wears some kind of goggles or visor. From Korli's reaction when we first asked to borrow them, there's an attached emotional significance.

* A willingness to resort to suicide tactics (although this might be born more of their situation than the hive's base mentality).

* Pretty much every individual has got on well / worked well with Polo
* Too well, in Ramella's case. :V

Speculation:
The start of a possible hive-hive friendship? Practical, level-headed managerial modern types might be exactly what the science hive needs to work with. Someone to keep things organized, keep them grounded, and keep them from going too far. (And market / sell / rights management for their tech?). And to stand up for them when they need it. They could really use an advocate / responsible friend, even in the environment of a larger ultrahive.

(From Likol's diary, they originally allied with the Su'ata salikai for similar motives. They needed support and protection).


Gianthive:
They're a small hive, which makes extrapolating larger trends more of a tricky prospect. Also, a lot of there personality seems defined by their tribal lifestyle- it's not entirely clear which traits are intrinsic to the hive itself and will still define them when they move past that.

* Very territorial / defensive, but this seems more a general trait of a tribal situation than a defining trait of their hive.

* Worth is strongly dependent on your ability to be useful (Productivity bent?)
Evidence:
* The hive is upset when simply given things, not allowed to produce own food, etc. They were much happier when given things in "payment" for three stripes' services- they want to earn things.
* Giant's own status and attitude about her size.
* Giant's reaction to Three Stripes couching his therapy work in those terms.

Speculation:
* One theory is that they might have an artistic bent.
Evidence:
* Gianthive took quite naturally to design when provided with the materials to make themselves new clothes.
* There's a strong implication the cave paintings Polo and Rikek found in the upper spire were done by their ancestors.


The Hunter Hive:
We met several members during Biles' thread, but we really didn't get much interpersonal interaction with them, an there's the looming pall of duress and mind control coloring all of it. There's really not enough that I'd be comfortable trying to conclude anything.


Lots of other Hives:
There's a bunch more hives that we know next to nothing about and/or who we really only know a single character from, which isn't really useful here.


Notable comparisons between the hives:

Internal competition:

* Members of the warhive were driven to prove themselves, they held internal fights for status / discipline / redemption. Doing better in this competition earned you more reproductive rights, and a place in the Queen's personal guard.
* Sealock doesn't seem to display the same tendency- Polo's hivemates don't really seem to complete with her over much of anything, and in fact, the 'failed' members of the silence project were happy for her success, not jealous nor upset at their failure or the time spent.
* Not really clear how competition in the science hive works- they're organized at least partially like an academic organization, with departments / specialties and leaders / seniority within those areas. Not quite clear how they balance the often cut-throat academic world view with a more happy hive view.

Rogues:

* The warhive very likely started out with the plain old tribal attitude- rogues are traitors to be killed. By the asteroid though, this attitude seems to be more complex, and becoming kind of obsessive. They feel responsible for the rogues in some way, and that because of this, they need to go well out of their way to hunt them down and kill them. This viewpoint is not yet fully understood. They've also been hemorrhaging rogues.
* Sealock seems kind of neutral- they don't have very many rogues, but they kind of try to ignore them. They don't try to kill them, they just let them go... and put it from their minds. Wariness of increasing rogue rates is one reason they declined earlier invitations to join the ultras.
* Science rogues we know nothing about. They probably just become salikai test subjects.

Independence:

* The warhive remained independent by staying on the offensive, and letting themselves be used as pawns in other people's wars. Supplies and tech in payment for attacking the right people. (Semi-mercenary nomads?). Attitude precluded joining an ultrahive. After their exile they followed a similar pattern as space mercenaries. On the asteroid, they remain independent by brunt of being one of the larger and stronger factions all on their own.
* Sealock remained independent because... they could. They managed on their own, and had no reason to accept the risks that came with joining an ultrahive (until they were forced, by the nuke). This despite their apparent willingness to work with outsiders, send children to mixed schools, and the relatively modern outlook of the hive.
* Unanswered question: how unusual is this? Hives with modern tech and outlooks, being self sustaining, without a connection to a larger government, seem like they'd be in the minority.
* The science hive betrayed someone at some point and cut themselves off from the wider world, retreating to their underground complex. They tried to remain independent, but ended up forming an alliance with Vanski out of need, and then enslaved after said alliance went bad.
* We don't know what precipitated relations with Vanski going bad, or if he planned to betray them all along.
>>
No. 96945 ID: 162ab6

>>96943

Something I'd add about the warhive: they might be becoming kind of wimps now? I don't remember when exactly, but I feel like Rokoa once described a hivemate of hers, Nokshra, as a "crybaby". And another warhive member called Sakarra, when she was rescued by Hok alongside two of Pilon's kids, was also shown crying. I also feel like, more than just feeling that they were responsible for the rogues, they were described as "beating themselves up" or self-flagellating or some similar colorful term.

Also, the rogues we've seen from the warhive all seem to be pretty tough. Kappi's the only one who isn't, but he has a potential for it, and he's the type of guy who really likes seeing it in others.

Pilon also clearly describes the hive as not being the same hive it used to be.
>>
No. 96946 ID: 88e46e

>* Science rogues we know nothing about. They probably just become salikai test subjects.

Actually, given access to predators, the salikai/hive might not have allowed any rogues to happen. No proof either, but it does seem plausible given neumono opinion of rogues and/or salikai desire to experiment with predators.
>>
No. 96962 ID: 61fd94

>>96943
Whups. The first questarch link points at the thread, not the quoted post. Oh well.

>>96945
Yes, Rokoa has a poor opinion of Nokshra. >>80364

He's also one of the hive's diplomats which would probably make him more wussy than average. Sakarra is another.

Rokoa would support the assertion the hive's not as tough as it used to be, but unfortunately, we haven't really gotten a good look at any of the rank and file on the asteroid to compare to. At least in the spire we could look at Kork and Tirrik and see how much she differed from them, we don't really have that on the asteroid yet.

Although speaking of Kork, she's apparently still tough at least, as Rokoa mentioned she's one of the people who still reminds her of the old days. >>82469


>>96946
Possible, but so far as we know the salikai didn't gain access to predators until relatively recently (when Three and Four Stripes entered the facility), and the science hive has been with Vanski's forces for decades. (Though it's possible they had access to other predators earlier, but Kiiu's dialog sure made it sound like he was doing new research. Not that we can trust he wasn't just trying to game Polo).

One possibility I've considered is that the science hive might be under enough external pressure that anyone who might otherwise be inclined to go rogue isn't. Kind of a Malsow's hierarchy of needs thing- if there's more pressing concerns you might be able to ignore / tolerate much more emphatic discomfort or asynchronicity than might otherwise. Or like a PV diagram- a solid or fluid that would normally be melting or evaporating at a given temperature doesn't due to being held under higher pressure.

(And on the flip side, this might also explain why rogue rates are higher in the relatively cushy ultrahives- with more basic needs met, small emphatic slights / difficulties are harder to ignore than they were in the old days when just surviving was tougher).

The opposite might also be possible- the science hive might be kept separate enough / not have enough internal contact for rogue-leaning individuals to be forced out. (Less pressure inside the hive). Korli admits to only knowing a few people in her hive very well, and she underestimated the size of the hive by a factor of two or three (She guessed 13, when the actual population is about 30). >>/questarch/558033 >>/questarch/560470
>>
No. 97021 ID: 88e46e

If we're cataloguing stuff it might be worthwhile to gather native flora/fauna. I don’t think this is a complete list of all the stuff on the neumono homeworld that we’ve seen, but it’s most of the interesting things.
FAUNA
Neumono, arkots, voklit (originally spelled voktil but voklit apparently rolled off the tongue better and no one minded the change), and salikai are already well enough known, and sapient so they’re probably a separate field of study. Wendigo aren't known and also sapient, but there's almost nothing to know about them other than them being scary neumono-eating creatures that could interbreed with neumono and were enough of a distinct species that their DNA is clearly differentiated. Extinct or close enough as not to be noticed.

Vernauts are dangerous and large enough to easily impale Rokoa on one horn. At least somewhat intelligent, but not very good at speaking comprehensibly. The horns are very valuable trophies, since killing one is great for bragging rights. Their meat tastes and smells awful to deter parasites to the point that Katzati almost puked just trying to eat it. It’s also not very nutritious.

Grottles are also hunted for bragging rights, and the chitin is a trophy. Roughly the size of a large neumono if they were cylindrical, with mandibles large enough to go completely around Rokoa while biting. Their fluids are corrosive, including spit and blood. Communicate through clicking, intelligent enough to be trained by salikai to hunt specific individuals.

Needleballs are exactly what the name sounds like. A smallish body, the size of someone’s head, covered with a lot of very long needles, which they can launch. The needles were big enough to be used as spears, and contain venom. The venom caused agonizing pain for a short time, with no long-term effects, and was said to be enough to knock weaker neumono out. Polo did mention that they try to get multiple hits in. It’s unclear if the venom is a defensive measure for an herbivore/scavenger or a method of hunting. The needles are valuable, although it’s not clear whether because they’re useful and the venom is hard to replicate, as a trophy, or both.

Windbeasts are somewhat similar to giant two-headed turtles, taller than Rikek. The front part of its body, with the head and forelegs, was also about as long as Rikek, with the heads stretching another Rikek further out. They are carnivores, and can create strong winds to blow away threats or inhale food. Neumono and other predators and scavengers find them edible and unobjectionable, if not particularly valuable.

Atlantos are currently the largest hypothesized animals on Astreneus V, although they may also be a colony of animals acting as one city-sized entity. They live in the deep oceans, and feed by extending tunnel-sized feeders, then sucking in water with food in it, similarly to a whale. They have been sighted doing this near the surface twice. One sank a battlecruiser, the other created a whirlpool because its feeders were too close to the surface. They’re still hypothetical because there’s very little footage and what does exist is often denied by skeptics.

Motons are the second-biggest bird on Astreneus V. They were seen in the Untameable Needles mountain range at the beginning of the Intermission, when Polo and Rikek stole a moton egg. Their feathers and eggs are highly valued, as trophies and nutrition in the eggs’ case, because they are hard to tame and will not lay in captivity. In the wild, they change nests often and spit acid, which is a nice way to say they projectile-vomit corrosive stomach fluids. The eggs are small enough that Polo can carry them, and largish numbers are automatically laid regardless of fertilization. Motons tire quickly, enabling kills via acid-proof gear or large numbers of deaths.

Tomotons are motons’ bigger, clumsier cousins. Their wingspan is roughly 45 meters or 147 feet, and a 1/200 model of a tomoton filled Rikora’s palm. Rikora is larger than Rokoa and roughly the size of Giant on steroids. They are even less capable of flight than motons are, and fly over redgrass because prey is larger and easier to see than in forests. Redgrass hives sometimes boast of taming or intending to tame them, but this has never actually happened to date. By contrast, motons are implied to be difficult but not impossible to tame by Polo’s description.

Glowslugs are largely similar to Earth slugs in appearance. They ooze purplish slime that can be used as camouflage but dries like glue in fur. If disturbed or held for too long, they glow and vibrate as a distress cry to various larger animals in a symbiotic relationship. They are edible and somewhat sweet.

Various unnamed species inhabit the voklit caves, including loud, multi-headed birds roughly the size of a neumono which are hard to trap, annoying to chase, and loud to kill, larger lizards a bit bigger than an average neumono that voklit hunt, and a great number of fish species, one of which is similar to the more aggressive species of piranha.

Flathoppers look somewhat similar to kangaroos with green, furless skin, no pouch, a permanent squint, and larger tails. Their forelegs are much smaller than their hindlegs, but they do touch the ground. Neumono farm them, presumably for meat, and enclose them in large fences to prevent wildlife or escape, with barns for nighttime.

Tenu snakes are small constrictor snakes with severe paranoia and relatively powerful constriction. With their size, they’re still only a threat to children. They’re farmed very, very carefully for their eggs, which are a bit of a delicacy, and each needs their own hermetically sealed, temperature-controlled, rigidly maintained environment.

Snow burrowers are described as being snow piranhas. They’re large enough to be ridden, although this is a bad idea, especially since they dislike things on their back. They have antennae they can use to detect prey, large mouths with many sharp teeth, a fondness for chomping off artery-rich bits and then diving back into snow, and a rudimentary intelligence. They, like most Astrenean wildlife neumono sometimes try to train, can tell enemies and allies apart, but will happily eat their trainers at the first missed meal, especially because neumono are delicious.

One unnamed species of snake is described as having an anesthetic venom that induces a strong sense of euphoria along with numbing the body. Tolerance to the euphoria builds more quickly than tolerance to the numbness, and it is the most psychologically addictive neumono drug known. One snake stores a few doses at a time, with a lethal dose being around 25 for an average neumono. An overdose causes the heart and lungs to stop. Addicts eventually willingly commit suicide via the drug if allowed to progress far enough, and it’s somewhat popular among rogues who want to die quickly rather than live in misery.


NOTABLE FAUNA
Redgrass is like the tall grass from Pokemon, except red. It’s widespread enough to be a biome of its own. Anything interesting about it is either unknown or more about interesting inhabitants, like redgrass neumono, who tend to favor intimidating outfits and were the basis for neumono metal albums.

Bitterweed is somewhat similar to marijuana for neumono. It’s a common, mostly harmless drug whose effects are mostly known because of Waska’s overuse. It’s normally smoked, although Waska’s sleeptalking implied he also chewed it and enjoyed the flavor. This may not actually work, since Mimi specifically had to use smoke to administer bitterweed. It causes red eyes, mild euphoria and impaired cognition, especially memory association and formation. At a purposefully cripplingly high dose given by Mimi, Waska could remember who Hok was but not that he disliked Hok, and Mimi suggested that when he did remember he disliked Hok he would shoot the next miklik he saw instead of chasing Hok. Waska was also unable to form long-term memories, forgetting everything that happened while high the next day. It seems effective on other species, since Miss was apparently affected, although the extents of the effects are unknown. The only change Hok could notice were her dilated eyes, since her personality was the same.

A fungal farm, or fufa, is a combination of two types of fungi that develop intelligence through a symbiotic relationship and the absorption of brain matter. They occur naturally, but only in small, harmless blobs that are easy prey for anything that eats fungi. When grown to large sizes and well programmed through salikai mad science, it becomes an apex predator. It is somewhat similar to a jetal, although it has been unable to fly, cause explosions, or do anything other than control its shape. This still allows it to launch spikes of itself moderate distances with enough force to penetrate solid rock. It is not considered particularly intelligent, being largely pre-programmed, although the only known canon fufa has been trying to improve in that regard. Fufa have a moderate weakness to fire, although they can vent smoke and lose mass to eject burning material, and setting one on fire is mostly only effective as a distraction, although a pretty good one.
>>
No. 97071 ID: 007e78

>originally spelled voktil but voklit apparently rolled off the tongue better and no one minded the change
To be completely rigorous, 'voklit' actually did appear first, in the OP of Polo Quest. Then changed to 'voktil' for a while, no one noticed, and then it switched back.

>Vernauts are dangerous and large enough to easily impale Rokoa on one horn.
It was my impression that the vernaut that spoke with Polo and that impaled Pilon on the warship was larger than usual, and on steroids and/or growth hormones the salikai had provided.

>grottle
You left our maybe their most dangerous feature: they are crazy contortionists who can cram themselves through very small spaces relative to their size. This allows them to get into places they otherwise couldn't (a problem for early hive complexes), and facilitates their (apparent) role as ambush predators.
>>
No. 97072 ID: 88e46e

>voktil/lit
Fair point.

>vernaut size
True, but unless steroids and genetics multiplied the usual size by five or something, it'd still be big enough to impale Rokoa. The one that the clone was riding wasn't much smaller, although it was also probably on steroids.

>grottle contortions
Good point.
>>
No. 97073 ID: 007e78

Big enough to impale seems a pretty wide criteria to me. I mean, pretty much any sharp object could, right? Unless maybe you mean impale and come out the other side?

>The one that the clone was riding wasn't much smaller
The clone mount had a head smaller than Rokoa's torso, the first one had a head considerably larger than Rokoa or Pilon. Elephant versus bull, approximately.

(I swear the story says something about vernaut growth somewhere, but I don't remember where. The size delta between the two could just be juvenile to mature adult, and/or artificial growth).
>>
No. 97199 ID: 73c49c

Hey guys, who would be interested in a Asteroid Quest game on myth-weavers? constructing one at the moment using the shadowrun 5th ed system.


Still going though a lot of the ITQ and BTE along with this discussion thread for info to use in it. (if TD could throw me some more stuff that he did for his SR 4e game that would be cool).

Just poking around to see who would be up for it. Im most likely going to employ 3D modeling and sculpting for some stuff to have nice pictures in it ( i hope).

Should have the thread nice looking for posting in a a week or two.
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No. 97295 ID: c22069
File 145352638256.jpg - (80.22KB , 538x665 , El Lucha Monstruo Dracula.jpg )
97295

A base reference for Radmin's wrestling set up.
>>
No. 97297 ID: ca0c9d

>>97199
I'll dig it up. You want it posted on the list? Or a drop box link or such for easier use? I know I did neumono and miklik, I may have done belinos. But that it. No heef or yich eaters, might have done pomi. I have to look it up on my computer. Just on my tablet now so I don't have access.

Give me like a day
>>
No. 97298 ID: bd2a30

>>97297
drop box would be great, the blue name is a email link to my hotmail that you can drop box link to. Or you could throw the link up here.

thanks for that!
>>
No. 97306 ID: ca0c9d

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3BI61WH2YQ8OWprY0hiRkxCeWc

These are for shadow run 4th ed but I don't think 5th ed changed it that much

If the link dose not open the contents are as follows

Belenosians
Build points 0
body 1-5(7) Agility 1/6(9) Reaction 1/6(9) Strength 1/6(9) Charisma 1-5(7) Intuition 1/6(9) Logic 3-8(12) Will 1/6(9) Initiative 2-12(18)
Special Traits
Sever Allergy capsaicin; Fast Learner Gain +10 points of knowledge skills at character creation

Miklik
Build points 15
body 1-5(7) Agility 2-7(10) Reaction 2-7(10) Strength 1/6(9) Charisma 1-5(7) Intuition 1/6(9) Logic 3-8(12) Will 1/6(9) Initiative 3-13(19)
Special Traits
All Miklik must purchase Class III surge

Nuemono
Build points 30
body 4-9(13) Agility 1-6(9) Reaction 1-5(7) Strength 3-8(12) Charisma 2-7(10) Intuition 1-5(7) Logic 1/6(9) Will 2-7(10) Initiative 2-10(14)
Special Traits
Very Tough: 1/2 body round up in damage before wound penalties effect physical actions; Decentralized Nervous System: All Wound penalties are x1.5 for mental actions; Decentralized Anatomy: No called shot can be fatal; +2 Physical and Stun Condition Boxes; 2x physical overflow boxes; Regeneration 1 health box per hour, regrow body parts Extended body test on initial damage 1 day interval; Over Resilient System: all Cyber and bio-ware must be modified for nuemono physiology and their price and essence cost is multiplied by 1.2

Pomi
Build points 15
body 1/6(9) Agility 1/6(9) Reaction 3-8(12) Strength 1/6(9) Charisma 1/6(9) Intuition 1/6(9) Logic 1/6(9) Will 1/6(9) Initiative 4-14(21)
Special Traits
Pomi Gain 1 additional initiative pass (max is still 4)

These are just my interpretations based on questions answered by ISQ and BTE, and a subjective.
>>
No. 97311 ID: aaf7f7

Sorry the permissions are messed up. If you go on and get blocked, try again latter and I will okay your access. Sorry until I get it fixed. It is just the same as the posted info though.
>>
No. 97312 ID: ca0c9d

>>97311
Okay the link sharing is set, anyone following the link should have access.
>>
No. 97517 ID: 88e46e

>accepting charity from a merchant after being warned all merchants act nice to cheat you
>accepting charity from a known spy
Why, /tgchan/? Why?
>>
No. 97518 ID: 02422f

>>97517
Because long term, it's not really a bad thing. It teaches Fen something, it's not an irrecoverable setback, and if we impress the informant getting our stuff back, the story will go to important places. We start becoming famous / infamous.

Plus if she owes us (or fears us) after, she becomes an asset we can actually use.

We've lost something too hot to actually carry, and we've found our first chance to grab at glory.

Playing the metagame, it works right to our advantage.
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No. 97519 ID: 211d83

>>97517

Its one thing for merchants to cheat you in a deal. You could have done your research and you agreed to the prices they set. Its your own fault for not being more careful if you later find out they overcharged you.

Its another thing entirely to suspect them of stealing your stuff in the night and running for it when you know exactly who they are and what they look like.
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No. 97529 ID: bb78f2

I had no idea why Fen didn't instinctively sleep with his backpack in his arms.
I mean, I guess we should have told him to, but we didn't.

It was really the only place to sleep. Honestly, I'm really offended, not by the theft, but that she actually looked through our shit without permission in order to steal it.

The nerve. I really hope what happens is that it gives Cheese so much bad luck and she feels real bad that she turns from heel right now. I like Cheese, dammit. But she goes and does this. She cuddled us, dammit. She cuddled us!
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No. 97530 ID: 5ad4a7

Cuddles... used for evil.
>>
No. 97550 ID: b412df

Is there a easier way to keep up to date with Lago's quests other than periodically checking /quest/? Is the wiki kept up to date?

On a side note, is asteroid quest currently active? I binge read through most of it recently and I'm curious to see how Polo quest continues.
>>
No. 97551 ID: 211d83

>>97550

He is working on getting Unnatural Selection up to date so that he can get back to Polo and Penn's adventures.

All the story lines will converge at one point so has to make sure they are all ready first.
>>
No. 97552 ID: 02422f

>>97550
>keep up to date
If you mean "know when updates happen" you can get on irc. He announces updates in #tgchan and #questdis.

>Is the wiki kept up to date?
Depends on what you mean.

Any new thread will be added to the infobox the day it occurs, if not sooner. The "stats" pages for Story / Fen / Polo / UnSe are kept updated to match quest updates as they occur. The character lists in Asteroid and UnSe lag up to a thread behind (usually have to wait for enough info and/or a good portrait). Thread summaries? Those can lag by a heck of a lot more. The ITQ pages are kept... pretty up to date, though it can sometimes take a week or two after they appear in questdis to get around to adding links in the tables.
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No. 97553 ID: 99a64d

>Any new thread will be added to the infobox the day it occurs, if not sooner.
wut.
>>
No. 97559 ID: b412df

>>97551
Ah that explains it, it'll be interesting to see how the two converge.

>>97552
Was mainly wondering about the threads being put on there, in case I missed one, but that answers my questions about the wiki.

Thanks.
>>
No. 97752 ID: dd338c

A note on Dating A Murder Neumono: This is a patreon funded quest, but it will also be a canon quest. As mentioned in the OP, it will potentially have NSFW parts; and what that means is that NSFW content will be an option, but not forced/railroaded into the quest if suggestors want Kappi to suddenly take up abstinence or something.

Even if this isn't intended as a primary story chapter, the events will still be remembered in the future, being canon and all. At the same time, I don't intend for it to be required reading (otherwise it would be a main chapter), and so events in Kappi Datequest will be light enough that the important consequences can be easily referenced in the future for readers who opt out, without requiring a pile of exposition for what everyone already knows. Hopefully this last part makes sense, but the first paragraph has the important details.
>>
No. 97825 ID: 73c49c

hey guys remember that game i said i was making (no? ok well listen in). well its up now so if you want to play PM me on myth weaver (to tell me your from TG, it will mean a most-likely guaranteed spot in game) and submit a application. Game system is shadowrun 5e, game time is 144 A.W in asteroid quest timeline.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?p=10924828#post10924828
>>
No. 97826 ID: b412df

>>97825
Sounds interesting, might submit a application, are you ok with people new to Shadowrun 5e?
What time / timezone is the game going to be run in?
>>
No. 97827 ID: bb78f2

You know, after it came up, I really sad we couldn't play Roy in the quest.
One day though, maybe. One day.
Rokoa playing Roy would be the BEST.
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No. 97903 ID: 02422f
File 145576394166.png - (118.40KB , 800x800 , 145576115196.png )
97903

>>/quest/702767
For anyone who missed it, here's what Rokoa's face looked like before Lago edited the towel he forgot in.
>>
No. 97953 ID: 99a64d

Rereading the first thread while also reading Dating a Murder Neumono is such a strange experience, our little Kappi's dick has come so far. :')

Also, I miss classic Dirtbag, modern Dirtbag is too tame for me.
>>
No. 97962 ID: 73c49c

>>97826
woops worry for the wait, did not check over here for a while, new comers are fine. i have all the reverent books to share, allready helping new newbies with character get so fine with new players. Its play by post on mythweavers, time zone does not matter as much because im in 10+ utc, so ill be reacting to posts made in the middle of the night or at 4am for me. slows things down a tiny bit bit its manageable (will also have systems in place for combat so it speeds up). currently have two TG applications and 1 mythweaver, got another group playing from IRL who will be in a separate team. Hoping to see more of you guys over there, the app closes on the 27th of this month.
>>
No. 97975 ID: 02422f

>>/quest/704099
>Unless my memory is failing me, early ITQ in the first thread and so on mentioned a husband along with the first few kids.
Closest thing I've been able to find is an early ITQ where someone asks:

>>51471
>And another thing, you said you've had a husband and kids, but you told Kappi that the three people you've been in love with were all rogues

But I can't actually find a point in the itqs prior to that or in thread 1 where Rokoa mentions having a husband or being married. I want to guess it's a reader assuming with kids and dead loves that she had a husband (especially since hive culture hadn't been discussed or established much at all at that point), but I'm not 100% sure there's not a reference somewhere in thread 1 I'm missing.
>>
No. 97976 ID: 88e46e

>>97975
Yeah, that's true, and probably the case. Although in the answer to the question I cited, Rokoa did say the dead kids all had one father, unless I misread that. I guess that's from before neumono biology/society got fleshed out.
>>
No. 97978 ID: dd338c

>>97976
Whoops at that; RokoaITQ18's been revised. Sorry for the confusion there. No such single father figure for all the kids.
>>
No. 97980 ID: 5ad4a7

IIRC, all of Rokoa's kids(save the one she had with Pilon) wound up dying violent deaths either to beasts in the wild or in wars.
>>
No. 98000 ID: 73c49c

hey Lagotrope, i've been looking tough the threads in asteroid quest. do lazer weapons exist because in polo quest intermission 1-2 to 1-3 a high powered plasma rifle not affected by wind or gravity becomes listed as a "laser sniper". Just wondering if i should keep the lazer weapons in shadow run there own thing or reskin them into plasma.
>>
No. 98016 ID: dd338c

>>98000
Honestly I've been saying Plasma <Gun> when really Laser/Lazer <Gun> would be a more accurate name; so I wouldn't bother with reskinning them and just use the shadowrun weapons.
>>
No. 98017 ID: aaa3ab

>>98016
>Honestly I've been saying Plasma <Gun> when really Laser/Lazer <Gun> would be a more accurate name

Really? Considering things they've been shown to do, like shoot a visible shot of "energy", carry or respond to electromagnetic effects, et cetera, things which lasers can't do (as anyone who's read up on the "science" behind star wars lightsabers and blasters knows), I figured it was the other way around.
>>
No. 98018 ID: 88e46e

>>98017
>electromagnetic radiation cannot respond to electromagnetic effects
>>
No. 98019 ID: dd338c

>>98017
Actually I might've gotten mixed around myself. I will probably do some light "research" of "the science" of this stuff to get it sorted out before dealing more with laser/plasma/non-kinetic weaponry.

So for Dillian, maybe reskinning is in order then; but at the same time, I'm unsure how shadowrun laser weapons work exactly, so it may or may not be needed. Unfortunately with 98017's fair points, I don't have much of a clean answer at the time, so you'll just have to use judgment on what the game would work best with, sorry.
>>
No. 98021 ID: aaa3ab

>>98018

Ok obviously light is affected by electromagnetic effects but I'm talking about, like, being contained by magnetic fields, being able to carry an electric shock like that weapon Hok got off that teenager, not penetrating transparent materials, a range of stuff that doesn't happen with lasers. So I guess I meant "strongly" or "visibly" affected by electromagnetic effects, that sort of thing.

Basically, in most scifi beam or energy weapons aren't called lasers any more except as a legacy thing, because an actual laser weapon wouldn't produce a visible beam or shot, it would be unusable in diffractive atmospheres, things like that. Plasma is often used instead, with weirdness being explained as it being some sort of exotic or specially treated/regulated plasma or something like that.

It gets used to explain a lot of stuff, actually. Film Theory on youtube did an episode about how DBZ ki blasts match up with being some sort of plasma, for example. Tongue in cheek, obviously, but it's good stuff.
>>
No. 98022 ID: 88e46e

Plasma is a state of matter where the material is, overall, electrically neutral but formed of unbound positive and negative particles. It responds well to electromagnetism and behaves like a gas when not contained by a physical barrier or a magnetic field. Plasma is often formed by extreme heat, and any plasma weaponry would likely be using the heat to cause damage. It is however possible to form plasma without undue heat, such as neon lights or plasma globes. You know, the things where you poke them and the filaments jump to your finger.

A laser or anything-aser is a focused beam of electromagnetic radiation of a specified wavelength. It generally causes damage by excess heating or ionization, in the case of more energetic wavelengths.

Using the earlier post for a list of criteria: It's possible for a laser "shot" to be a visible pulse, but then the air or whatever it's traveling through would have to be very dusty and being able to see a laser as anything other than a spot on the target usually means it's being diffused. Plasma shots would presumably be fast-moving packets of hot, rapidly expanding fluid, which makes them much more visible. Although it should be noted that unless whatever's firing the plasma has a way to keep it contained in a field then the shot would expand significantly.

As for carrying or responding to electromagnetic effects, either is viable, since a laser is by definition an electromagnetic effect and plasma is easy to manipulate with electromagnetism. Given that we can already use lasers to cool things down by shooting off electrons and other previously-implausible things, a setting centuries in the future has plenty of justification to have either lasers or plasma be messing around with electromagnetism.
>>
No. 98023 ID: 88e46e

>>98021
Fair point, didn't see this while I was typing. I have to concede that you're right in that visibility and conductivity are what make lasers less plausible than plasma for Asteroidverse weapons. Although I wonder if some of the weapons like that thing Hok got might be more easily justified by just firing off electrons. After all, it's not that hard to get a source of free electrons, plenty of things produce beta radiation if you want it to be that simplistic and if you can create plasma at demand you can manipulate electrons anyway.
>>
No. 98024 ID: 02422f

I would also point out it's not unreasonable for Polo (or any of the other narrators) to be less than scientifically precise with terminology on energy weapons. The details we're debating aren't her concern - just how it functions in a military / tactical sense.
>>
No. 98025 ID: 88e46e

>>98024
True, but the differences between how plasma, lasers, and electrons behave are moderately important. The end result is generally the same and involves glowy things hurting what you point it at, but it's like a soldier not knowing the difference between a railgun and a rifle.
>>
No. 98027 ID: 02422f

>>98025
"Not knowing the difference between" and "playing fast and loose in colloquial use" are two different things.

For instance, I can draw distinctions between a computer, a robot, an android, a cyborg, a prosthesis, etc, but this doesn't stop me from falling back to the convenient shorthand of calling Marie a robot in rollback instead of using a more precise or accurate description.
>>
No. 98037 ID: b412df

It's probably better to see if the mechanics / purpose of the plasma / laser guns match up, since imo it's easier to refluff a weapon in a rpg, than to rework it's mechanics.

In the context of shadowrun lasers, they're supposed to be a bit less damaging than regular guns, but excellent at bypassing armour.
>>
No. 98047 ID: 99a64d

From the very first thread of this quest Rokoa has been hyped up as a badass crazy psycho murder neumono, but that just isn't accurate. If you ignore her scary empathy and psycho grin (both have perfectly reasonable explanations) she's actually pretty average for a neumono. Red, the war hive queen, and Rikora were all way more psychotic than her, in fact she's been one of the more reasonable characters we've interacted with. She's not even that rediculously strong, she's the baddest bitch on the asteroid for sure, but Polo and the red queen were both by her own admition tougher than her, and Pilon and Rikora are both at a similar level. The only actually weird thing about her personality wise is her sense of honor, which isn't that unusual for the Pround Warrior Race Guy.
>>
No. 98048 ID: 88e46e

>>98047
I'm pretty sure the hype is a deliberate in-universe thing because she has fucked-up empathy, is willing to blow shit up to get the job done, and doesn't share the perfectly reasonable explanations. Also, how's Rikora psychotic? I can see the othet two, but Rikora's never seemed disconnected from reality.
>>
No. 98049 ID: 9fcad2

>>98047

Well, Rokoa when Rokoa said her old red Queen had kicked her ass, remember that was Polo-Quest-era Rokoa. In ITQ, Rokoa has described herself as having been reminded to keep improving herself after her encounter with Polo, and she's probably stronger now.

On another subject...

>"I think people - uh I mean, my hive -
>"Is anyone in your hive hungry

Still feeling... suspicious.
>>
No. 98051 ID: 73c49c

"Um, how did you crashland on the asteroid anyway?"
"Nothing amazing. We were pretending to get chased by some pirates into a trap, and our trap worked, but so did theirs. They blew off a bunch of our engines, and we got sucked down to the asteroid."
>"There's more of a story to that." says Holkoro. "Rokoa just didn't care to learn the political details.
"Like I said. Nerd."

wow, this links up with what i had planned for the Shadowrun asteroid quest reasoning for them crashing. Deadman switch, kill who ever takes out the ship "the shadowrunner". Some pirates hit the ship and it crashes, stopping its signal and sending out a message with the switch's target before it gets dragged down by the asteroid. War hive later get the message and try to kill the pirates who hit it down (for the bounty/ reward money), end up crashing.


For plasma weapons im going to take the laser stuff and tweak it around to reflect plasma's damage. As with all the dust the laser weapons are going to be useless on the asteroid.
>>
No. 98052 ID: 99a64d

>>98049
Yes, but in this latest thread Rokoa has been complaining about her skills getting rusty.

>>98048
Rikora isn't, like, actually fully psychotic, but the way she acted is definitely more psychotic than how Rokoa has acted. I don't think Rokoa would consider literal torture as a good training method.
>>
No. 98061 ID: 9fcad2

>>98052
>I don't think Rokoa would consider literal torture as a good training method.

She considers chopping off someone's ears to be playing. They're aliens, they have different standards. There are human martial arts regimens where, for example, you punch progressively harder substances to inure your fists against damage, and that's arguably worse because it often cripples your manual dexterity in exchange for the ability to punch people in the face without hurting yourself.

Converting between human and neumono values, I don't see that much difference between Rikora's training and, say, iron crotch training.
>>
No. 98064 ID: 99a64d

>>98061
>I don't see that much difference between Rikora's training and, say, iron crotch training.
Exactly! Normal people don't generally do iron crotch training. But that's beside the point. Your point that Rikora isn't as crazy as she would be if she were a human is both correct and not in conflict with my point that she is an example of a neumono who acts more psychotic than Rokoa. Rokoa wants to toughen Kappi up, but she hasn't come anywhere close to beating him to within an inch of his life repeatedly.
>>
No. 98066 ID: 9fcad2

>>98064

Depends on your definition of "psychotic", I think. If we went for the classic:

>"a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality."

... then Rikora doesn't really count. Her actions were very extreme, certainly, but they were well-reasoned and clearly had grounds in reality, as they achieved the effect that she believed they would. In other words, though she did things that wouldn't be considered normal, she wasn't operating under any sort of delusion, impairment or imbalance. She was entirely sane.

Rokoa, on the other hand, we know has a literal mental disorder, as a result of using the needle trick, and is suffering from emotional imbalances. Her old Queen, similarly, could be argued to have been subject to a disconnect with reality, as her stated desires (remembering that neumono can't just lie to other neumono, so she had to believe what she was saying herself) were so at odds with her actual actions. You could say Red was probably legitimately psychotic as well, at least in the sense of having an imbalanced emotional response to things, and he also seemed to occasionally be delusional in regards the empathic readings he got off other neumono.

Rikora, at least as much as we've seen of her, appears to just be a normal-functioning tribal neumono queen. She's just hardcore.
>>
No. 98067 ID: 02422f

>Rokoa not so tough / hyped up in universe
>actually pretty average for a neumono
I think there's been some perspective lost here.

The story focuses on a very select group of individuals, who are, by and large, exceptional. This can result in a very skewed perception of average.

For instance, the average neumono height is 1.3 to 1.4 meters (about 4' 3'' to 4' 7''). This is not the number you would expect, looking at the cast, where the average is skewed higher by the disproportionate representation of large soldier types and snow hivers.

Or consider headshots. One round to the head isn't going to kill a healthy neumono, but an 'average' individual will find themselves disoriented and largely disabled by the pain and the damage done to all the senses coming in from the head (sight, hearing, balance). See Katzati, in Polo Quest 2. Even badass Polo was significantly unbalanced by just a graze at one point. Rokoa? In the intermission she tanks a shot to the head while playing dead without flinching and is up and killing things minutes later, without any coordination issues.

Or consider the stomach. If a neumono's stomach is ruptured, there's supposed to be an autonomic response that forces hibernation, so regeneration can repair the damage without aggravating it by moving around and releasing / spreading more acid. Polo's training covers this a standard "knockout" tactic. However, exceptional individuals can power through and force themselves to remain conscious. As Polo herself has commented, she's surrounded by a such a disproportionate collection of overpowered monsters that this tactic has rarely worked for her, and forced her to reevaluate what she was taught.

Look at bioarmor. 30% is the lowest percentage wildly produced, because any weaker doesn't give returns that are worth it. This means nearly a third of the species can't even wear useful bioarmor without dying. Compare that to the fact that most of the cast wear, or are rated to wear, that or higher. (Even Kappi, who's one of our benchmarks for a more normal individual). And that Pilon and Rokoa wear bioarmor that's so good / preposterously expensive that it only comes into being as special science projects.

Consider the Rokoa darts. The reason the salikai even use cloned Rokoa material for those is because she's literally the only test subject they had who could survive the process. She's an outlier- able to endure something that killed everyone else going through it.

Rokoa's from a historical military oriented hive, from a species based around cooperation and group action. But by herself, she's considered a trump card, sent into hostile engagements, alone and without support, against entire facilities organizations.

Even consider the science hive. They might be more physically average, but isolated, in trying conditions, and relatively short time, they've made a consistent set of breakthroughs, outpacing the rest of the planet's research efforts in several fields.

You want average? Rikek was average. We kind of saw him as a wuss, but that's only cause he was so far out of his depth among the juggernauts he found himself around. Rokoa's exceptional, and the story has consistently portrayed her as such, even if she shares the stage with other exceptional persons.

>She's not even that [ridiculously] strong
>Polo and the red queen were both by her own admition tougher than her, and Pilon and Rikora are both at a similar level
There are false comparisons. You're holding Rokoa up to some of the toughest people known and complaining she's on the same tier as them. Losing to or being on the level with a fellow Olympian doesn't make you average.

A Queen is supposed to be the closest thing to the physical embodiment of the values of her hive, and the warhive prized strength and combat core to their identity, well and beyond the neumono norm, and past mere tribal prejudices. Of course the Red Queen was strong. Pilon is the oldest living member of the same hive. And Rikora is the oldest living neumono we know of, period, and strong to the point considers Rokoa's hive weak.

Polo is an perfectionist determinator special forces soldier who trains herself relentlessly. Her exploits are absurd to the point where they earned her worldwide fame almost as soon as she finished her first mission. And she beat Rokoa largely by picking fights that played to her strengths rather than Rokoa's. (And it says something about Rokoa's confidence in her own abilities that she was unafraid to challenge a specialist in her own arena).

>Converting between human and neumono values, I don't see that much difference between Rikora's training and, say, iron crotch training.
To say nothing of the fact that the training gave Rokoa permanent brain damage and/or a personality disorder, the mere memory of Rikora's training is so traumatic that it destroyed nearly every "host" unfortunate enough to be infected with a clone dart to relive it. The reason the Rokoa clones so thoroughly assimilated most their victims is that the host would end up trapped and broken by that memory, to the point that they were helpless to resist their own mind being devoured.

Polo only managed to survive it (and not undamaged) by cooperating with her Rokoa clone so they were each shouldering half the burden, knowing full well full well the real Rokoa had to endure worse, alone.

This training is not normal by neumono cultural standards. Not by a long shot.

>She considers chopping off someone's ears to be playing. They're aliens, they have different standards.
Most modern neumono wouldn't consider mutilation play normal, even if their ears are edible and stuff grows back. Granted, not exceptionally abnormal. More fringe.

Even with regeneration, your average nuemono wouldn't be nearly so blase about getting cut up. Remember Polo's reaction when she first lost an ear? Or how Jess was, when they decided to hide the evidence by shoving it in her ear? (Or that her mobster neumono interrogator didn't even consider she might have hidden something with regeneration?).


>TL;DR
You guys are measuring average with the wrong ruler.
>>
No. 98068 ID: 88e46e

>>98067
I think you're conflating 'tough' and 'strong'. And physically/mentally tough, too, come to it. Rokoa can take a lot of abuse, but when it comes to dishing it out she's not that much above anyone else chucking explosives around. Being tough and not panicking in a fight is a huge deal, but I don't think that's what he meant. In a straight-up firefight Rokoa's not actually much more dangerous than a moderately skilled gunner with explosives.

TL;DR: You're measuring the wrong thing.
>>
No. 98072 ID: 02422f

>>98068
I'm not conflating them, I'm giving examples of exceptionalism in more than one characteristic. Someone's not-average or impressive if they're above board in multiple measures.

If you want examples of pure strength, I'll point at the time the cropped clone resorted to whipping around a large two handed machine gun one handed, without either the recoil or the moment of inertia being an issue for her (which Polo described as requiring monstrous strength). Or just this thread, when she topped the punch strength game, sans the one-dimensional wall of muscle. Or heck, anyone she took to pieces with her bare hands.

>In a straight-up firefight Rokoa's not actually much more dangerous than a moderately skilled gunner with explosives.
I'm sorry, I can't stop laughing.

Yes, that's why they send her against entire enemy facilities and organizations, solo. That's why her participation significantly reshapes every conflict we've seen her as a part of. Just like every moderately skilled gunner with explosives.
>>
No. 98073 ID: 88e46e

>>98072
You don't understand the difference between infiltration and a straight firefight, do you?
>>
No. 98075 ID: 02422f

>>98073
An airdrop into the middle of an open mafia war isn't an infiltration. Nor charging your way into a castle full of people shooting you, nor is storming though a warship or an underground facility, nor is any attack involving striking from a roaring motorcycle, indoors.

If you're trying to say "she's not so tough standing in one place taking heavy fire", well, no one is! Enough sustained fire brings anyone down. (Although, as the clone dart sequence flashbacks showed, she's pretty good at tanking fire anyways).
>>
No. 98076 ID: 99a64d

I really shouldn't have worded that post so ambiguously, at least >>98068 gets it, and it sparked some nice discussion. Let me try again.

I can't say that Rokoa isn't a badass determinator, nor can I say that she isn't my favorite psychic dogbun. But I can say that aside from the aforementioned determinatorness (which, while uncommon isn't completely unheard of eg: Polo, Rikora, etc.) she's fairly normal psychologically for a neumono born pre-contact. She has the needle-trick injury, but she's had it for the majority of her life, so it basically amounts to the neumono equivalent of having a really scary face. She's definitely a badass, but this also isn't a trait unique to her (eg: Pilon, the warhive queen, etc.). In a regular gunfight she isn't that much more of a threat than the next exceedingly competent neumono. She also isn't really that nuts, Rikora was crueler than her, Red was more psychotic, and the warhive queen was more disconnected from reality, which makes sense considering none of those things describe her very well. Rokoa is definitely a name to run away from really fast, but she isn't really much of a monster, she's just an exceptionally tough neumono.

I probably fucked up somewhere in there too, so feel free to pick apart my semantics.
>>
No. 98077 ID: 88e46e

>>98075
I'm saying that in-universe neumono literally panic from her walking around because she was in a bad mood to the point she couldn't buy food from neumono and got banned from the food court. She's become a literal legend, with games and movies starring her, and it seems people in-universe misunderstand what makes her dangerous. Yes, she's good at what she does and if anything I said implied she wasn't very skilled it was accidental. Rokoa's legitimately much more of a threat than most people because unlike most people she can effectively use what she has instead of panicking in a firefight or having to avoid getting shot. What I'm saying is that the amount of raw destructive force she herself has is not significantly much more than the average neumono, and doesn't justify the blind terror random bystanders have of her. It's entirely expected, after all, since your average random guy is hardly well equipped to handle any sort of violence and panic spreads, but Rokoa isn't the murderbeast other neumono apparently think she is based on empathy.
>>
No. 98079 ID: 02422f

>>98076
>In a regular gunfight she isn't that much more of a threat than the next exceedingly competent neumono.
It's not exactly a regular gunfight if you have multiple exceedingly competent people on the field at the same time.

And what you're saying is equivalent to "she's not any more of a threat than the other really big threats".

>She also isn't really that nuts, Rikora was crueler than her, Red was more psychotic, and the warhive queen was more disconnected from reality
This continues to be a false paradigm. That multiple extremes exist doesn't mean she isn't one.

>>98077
>What I'm saying is that the amount of raw destructive force she herself has is not significantly much more than the average neumono
The average neumono cannot necessarily hold nor bring to bear all the weapons / equipment she can, and certainly not with the same speed, strength, or skill.

I'm not sure I understand why you insist on drawing a distinction between 'raw damage output' and her ability to bring damage to bear effectively, to stay in a fight to bring that damage to bear, or to cause the enemy to fall apart in a route or panic. If you're evaluating how much of a tactical threat she presents, it's all relevant.
>>
No. 98080 ID: 88e46e

>>98079
Sure. And when she's on a day off with her boyfriend walking around in a T-shirt and shorts, with no super-fancy gear, the neumono are still terrified. They're afraid of her, not the tech.
>>
No. 98081 ID: 502e6f

I think the terror is less from an inflated reputation than it is from what is effectively a psychic fear aura. It is rather more than the equivalent of a scary face when people can feel a sense of wrongness when you are approach before they can even see you.
>>
No. 98083 ID: 99a64d

>>98079
>And what you're saying is equivalent to "she's not any more of a threat than the other really big threats".
Now you're getting it. Rokoa isn't any more dangerous than, say, Pilon, and she doesn't have a team of SoBs to back her up. And yet Pilon doesn't even have half of the hype Rokoa does, even among non-neumono.

>The average neumono cannot necessarily hold nor bring to bear all the weapons / equipment she can, and certainly not with the same speed, strength, or skill.
Maybe not the average neumono, but the average asteroidverse heavy infantry probably could. A really beefy neumono, a cyborg, or a big tough dude in power armor, could all, with the proper training, reasonably preform similarly to Rokoa, albeit with a lot less finesse and enthusiasm.
>>
No. 98085 ID: 88e46e

>>98083
To be fair, I'm somewhat certain Pilon has hype, just more of the panty-dropping kind than the pants-shitting kind. He's got a record for biggest ears, those puppy eyes, and a ridiculous number of children. The guy sure seems popular.
>>
No. 98086 ID: 99a64d
File 145642516832.gif - (146.16KB , 450x450 , mmmm sexy.gif )
98086

>>98085
>>
No. 98092 ID: 02422f

>>And what you're saying is equivalent to "she's not any more of a threat than the other really big threats".
>Now you're getting it.
But you apparently missed the subtext I assumed was implicit. I'll be more blunt: that's a trite and almost meaningless comparison. Congratulations, 1 equals 1.

>Pilon doesn't even have half of the hype Rokoa does, even among non-neumono
He doesn't have Rokoa's reputation because he's not Rokoa. He doesn't have screaming murder empathy. He was the one member of the warhive so inclined to attempt to talk Polo down as a first resort, instead of assuming the standard shoot first, talk later model. He has a completely different personality and pattern of behavior from Rokoa. While she's been running around the asteroid picking fights, he's been building a network of alliances and contacts cemented with children in what is perhaps the oldest form of diplomacy.

He's considered less of a threat because he is, to most people. If you select an individual completely at random from the asteroid population and arrange for them to run into Pilon and Rokoa in identical circumstances, there's much better odds of the Pilon encounter not ending in violence and/or death.

>Maybe not the average neumono, but the average asteroidverse heavy infantry probably could.
No, that's not supported by what we've seen. The easiest / best comparison there would be the Hunter hive, who were portrayed as a competent / tough infantry force that the ultrahive used as rapid responses forces, and expected to be able to deal with expected salikai resistance. We've fought individuals from that hive, and been engaged in several firefights verus groups of them, and fought alongside a squad of them, and even seen their Queen versus a Rokoa clone in a straight fight. They did not perform on her level.

>a cyborg, or a big tough dude in power armor
So far, competent or effective battle-cyborgs / power armor wearers are about as rare as Rokoas on the Asteroid. We've only seen one of each. But yes, Sharpa and Grudge-Bearer both had comparable abilities to significantly shape conflicts they were involved in.
>>
No. 98093 ID: 02422f

>>98086
So much this.
>>
No. 98099 ID: 99a64d

>>98092
Alright, here's an analogy. Rokoa is a big fish in a small pond with quite a few other big fish. Most of the other characters in the asteroidverse, however, tend to treat her like a shark surrounded exclusively by minnows. My point is that that view is inaccurate because Rokoa can be reasoned with and isn't actually that much more powerful than the other top people on the asteroid.

She may have a healthy appreciation for combat, but she doesn't tend to act truly bloodthirsty until she's in the thick of it. In the very first thread we murdered her boyfriend, harbored a rouge her hive wanted dead, and held onto a valuable piece of bioarmor that she really wanted. And do you know what she did? She negotiated with us.

>So far, competent or effective battle-cyborgs / power armor wearers are about as rare as Rokoas on the Asteroid.
Yes but I was referring to the entire asteroidquest UNIVERSE, the asteroid is a backwater shithole by comparison.
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No. 98101 ID: 02422f

>Most of the other characters in the asteroidverse, however, tend to treat her like a shark surrounded exclusively by minnows.
That's because she is. Most of the people in the universe are minnows. She was a big fish even when she was on the goddamn homeworld of her species (and her clones still are). The facts that there are other big fish in the universe, or that she's been trapped in a smaller pond, doesn't change this.

>In the very first thread we murdered her boyfriend, harbored a rouge her hive wanted dead, and held onto a valuable piece of bioarmor that she really wanted. And do you know what she did? She negotiated with us.
I think you're confusing "brutally honest and forthright" with "reasonable".

Pretty much every faction she (or her hive) interacts with is harboring rogues her hive wants dead. Since they haven't started an all out extermination campaign (yet) that means they tolerate this every time every time they don't engage in open battle over it. If anything "you got rogues" seems to be a convenient excuse to apply when they want to attack anyways. Vimes logic- it's a crime you know everyone is guilty of, and you can selectively enforce it at need.

She didn't avenge Lakkat because she wasn't protecting him in the first place, and because she acknowledged the fact he got himself killed by putting himself in that situation and not backing down.

As for the negotiation? It amused her to cooperate with us, and she found the CAI entertaining. It wasn't so much that she was reasonable, as that her whims were in our favor.

>Yes but I was referring to the entire asteroidquest UNIVERSE, the asteroid is a backwater shithole by comparison.
It's a reasonable cross section of the interstellar underworld, at least.

The point I was making there is if cyborg modifications and powered armors that compare to her only crop up at that low a rate, it's not an argument against Rokoa being remarkably dangerous. It shows how infrequently she's matched by even tech.
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No. 98102 ID: 88e46e

>>98101
>She was a big fish even when she was on the goddamn homeworld of her species (and her clones still are). The facts that there are other big fish in the universe, or that she's been trapped in a smaller pond, doesn't change this.

I don't really see much evidence of this, or at least not that she was bigger than the other elite fighters in the warhive. She got captured by salikai and lost repeatedly to someone who was originally a glorified tour guide with zero actual combat experience.
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No. 98103 ID: 661a3a

>>98102
>someone who was originally a glorified tour guide with zero actual combat experience.

Polo had the power of /quest/ on her side, so you can't use her to measure. She also took down a giant bird that shot acid, an example of the one species specifically evolved to eat only hers, several of the "other elite fighters in the warhive" (who generally went down easier than Rokoa), and a bunch of other things.

As for matchups like Rokoa vs. Pilon, I'd say Pilon could beat Rokoa, but in 10 even matchups I'd bet you'd see a definite trend in Rokoa's advantage.
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No. 98104 ID: 02422f

>I don't really see much evidence of this, or at least not that she was bigger than the other elite fighters in the warhive.
How about the fact she earned QI status by surviving (and completing) what was considered a suicide mission even by her hive's standards?

Or the fact that even today, she's her hive's defacto trump card, above and beyond the other old QIs, or anyone new since then?

>She got captured by salikai and lost repeatedly to someone who was originally a glorified tour guide with zero actual combat experience.
She got captured after (barely) being restrained by a predator, and then surviving a point blank barrel bomb explosion.

And Polo won the first fight by stalling until the predator could do it's job, and the second by goading getting Rokoa to agree to terms where she was at a disadvantage.

And despite being untested in her first encounter, Polo was a ridiculously overtrained special forces agent.
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No. 98118 ID: b4ac13

last day to get in the asteroid quest shadow-run game http://www.myth-weavers.com/showthread.php?t=345947. we got at least 3 TG chaners, and some peps who i know (who are also TGers) irl. Ill be accepting them in tonight/tomorrow.
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No. 99030 ID: 15a025
File 146029641647.png - (2.82MB , 1169x1371 , why in the hell did I do this.png )
99030

You can thank someone on the irc for making me make this glorious master piece at 3 AM.
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No. 99081 ID: 3f9dc0
File 146049495918.gif - (1.95MB , 180x135 , invincible.gif )
99081

Radmin stupid pin-immunity maneuver when
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No. 99087 ID: 99a64d

>>99081
YES PLEASE. I will be voting for this as soon as we need to go on the defensive again.
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No. 99443 ID: a075ba
File 146164901516.png - (89.34KB , 1600x1100 , firing pattern.png )
99443

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No. 99635 ID: a075ba
File 146259291522.png - (156.93KB , 1366x768 , lago flops.png )
99635

> <Lagotrope> oh great I have like 3 panels on the front page that are all the same sleeping pose and camera shot hopping from fenquest to unse
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No. 100504 ID: b86280

Ok, so with this reveal that doctor Marchi has an 8 million bounty on him, I've thought of a possible plan.

What it depends on is, what happens when multiple people place a bounty on the same person? Only one buyer can get to take the captured bounty target home. So what I'd bet is, the highest bidder on the bounty gets to decide what happens to them, so long as they don't have any official crimes hanging over them that would cause the government to take a serious interest. Which Marchi probably doesn't, just stuff like operating without a license or trespassing or illegal ownership of combat implants, which would be minor enough for the government to not care enough and for the bounty office to be willing to hand him over to someone besides them.

So, what we could do is, we go to the bounty office, and find out how much we need to bid to get the controlling stake on what happens to Marchi when he's captured. We borrow money to pay that, and we get him to let himself be turned in by a bounty hunter that we trust, who's in on the scheme. He gets handed to us, the bounty hunter gets paid the entire cumulative bounty, we let the doctor go with his bounty wiped away and the payout money minus the loan is split between us, him and the bounty hunter. Everyone profits, except the people who had lesser bids on his bounty, and screw them.

Now, we probably couldn't trust a bounty hunter from the syndicate, because they'd probably want the doctor out of the picture, but I'd bet the DBs, after we do a couple of more jobs for them, will see Unity's trust and willingness to work for them as more valuable in the long run than a quick 8 million. Unity could probably earn that much for them in the space of a few months, the way she's been going so far.

We'd have to investigate that it all works the way the plan would assume, of course, and talk it over with the people involved, but it could be a way to make a relatively easy few million.
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No. 100640 ID: 91ee5f

Know what would really suck? If the pornoverse Corruptor forced us to lose to Sevener. I'm hoping that since this isn't canon, we can get Alison to win this time!
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No. 100694 ID: c441c1

>>100640
Yah that would be nice
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No. 100696 ID: 87876e

>>100640

A pornoverse Corruptor would need to have sex with things in order to corrupt them, obviously. So the process of him messing up the simulation would be a little more... complicated.
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No. 101448 ID: db0da2

About UnseUnce: The current plan seems to be to, once we're in the real world, infiltrate noble society using our status as a diamond noble and then become close enough to the sapphire emperor to bone him to death. I don't see how this could possibly work considering that the sapphire emperor will know that we know that he killed all of the other diamond nobles and (somewhat correctly) assume that we want revenge. Even assuming that we convince him that that isn't the case, Belenosian noble society is still a society of immortals, who knows how long it will take to rise through their ranks, certainly longer than the few days it will take Sevener to get strong enough to kill the emperor. But, y'know, maybe we'll quickly gain a reputation as a jetal sex god and Sapphire will want some of that, we still have no idea if our fuck-em-to-death trick will even work on him with that crazy overpowered body of his.

I think a better plan would be to trick Sevener into having sex with us or use a more mundane trap to off her before she can build momentum. I don't know how we'd go about doing that, but we might be able to leverage the situation with Roxy somehow, or convince her that we're someone who can help her advance but that we want to have sex with her first for some reason. Maybe we could trick her into getting EIN sicced on her somehow? Alternatively we screw our way into some better fightan modules and kill the emperor that way. Maybe wait until Sevener starts fighting him and then swoop in to help fight her? (Would that count as a win or a tie if the emperor never dies? Maybe we could trick him into victory sex.)

I’m no expert planner, and I really wish we had more information, so I’d rather wait and have someone else come up with a better, more comprehensive plan, but I do know that the current strategy won’t work. Thoughts?
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No. 101453 ID: 908ead

>>101448
Oh that's easy, let some hints slip that Unity's just some ambitious floozy who's managed to get diamond noble status via questionable means. If the Sapphire Emperor thinks he knows the truth and that it's something that gives him a hold over her, his guard's going to be down.
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No. 101474 ID: a075ba

>>101448
Our last run through this scenario (in canon) showed that it's not hard at all to raise yourself in stature quickly enough along the legit route to get close enough to an emperor to kill them. That's how Sevener got Ruby, after all.

Also, we already know that Sapphire has already recruited four Loviro-built cores (who therefore have a claim to diamond nobility) as bodyguards (although I wouldn't be surprised if they were bodyguards / harem in this pornverse). There' a precedent for Sapphire wining over people who are exactly what we are and putting them in position of trust.

We certainly do have the information advantage to try and get Sevener killed- we already know she only has C to B rank stuff, and we could use our gang connections and infiltration / manipulation approach to somehow arrange her to be targeted by stronger criminals. Especially if we either won her trust as Roxy and walked her right into an ambush, or if we betrayed her at trial as Roxy, costing her reputation and police resources to weaken her.

This is a whole lot less fun than ascending from prostitute to noble courtesan, to surprise assassin, though. And considering this is a pornverse replay, I think doing what's interesting and challenging is more important than taking the most expedient route to victory.

I mean, come on, we're basically doing a high charisma and stealth pacifist run of a liquid metal terminator crazy boss rush game! We're doing an optional conduct / non-standard playstyle for the joy of it.
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No. 101493 ID: db0da2

>>101474
Good points all around, I had forgotten about the bodyguards, could they have been reprogrammed/reset? Would that even work on us? I still want to seduce Sevener, we could even spare her, with the excuse of wanting to learn more about the CAI battle the way she did in canon.

>>100696
>>101474
Is this even a proper pornoverse? It mostly just seems like reasonable sexual stuff that we just didn't encounter the first time through due to using a different strategy. Except, of course, for some minor differences such as Succubus being there, which easily could have happened in canon but just didn't, and the brothel over Loviro's base which can be chalked up to Early Episode Weirdness and hasn't really had any impact.
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No. 101677 ID: cd44ca

Someone mentioned finding Loviro something to do to occupy himself in the thread just now, and I wanted to bring up an idea I had. We know Loviro has made jetal modules (in fact, we really should find some time to come up with a plan to recover some), and I was thinking, what about a "trap" module?

It'd be a module labelled as something else, something like "Absorption Efficiency B" or whatever, something that an jetal who had disabled us and wanted to steal our modules and jetalium would want to take and to use right away. But when they use it - zap! It actually disables them! And maybe even forces them to feed energy back to revive us, leaving them open for us to take their stuff. Or some similar process that backfires on them, like it's actually a hack module that links them into our core, where we can beat them up.
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No. 101679 ID: 2e2d71

>>101677
Covert module development is something he could do for us, yeah. A trap module that disables anyone who absorbs it (after it's engaged I suppose, it has to be safe to load initially) could be useful, as could the capacity to "skin" modules so they show up wrong on scans to begin with.
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No. 101775 ID: db0da2

I miss when UnSe information was posted here, rereading old threads can be really confusing with how often information on the stats page is referenced that isn't there anymore.
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No. 101776 ID: 3d2d5f

>>101775
If you go to the stats page in the wiki and click the history tab, you can view earlier versions of the stats page, before old stuff got purged (if you're looking for the revision that went with a specific update I recommend looking at the timestamp on the post as a guide).

http://tgchan.org/w/index.php?title=Unnatural_Selection_Stats&offset=&limit=500&action=history

It might be possible to set up redirects to get the wiki links to point to archival / obsolete stats automatically?
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No. 101788 ID: db0da2

>>101776
Thanks, that's really helpful. I wouldn't've thought of that.
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No. 102137 ID: c441c1

When we finally reveal that Roxy is Alison I want it to be like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc0ZTB0qFyI
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No. 102140 ID: 91ee5f

>>102137
Roxy: "You thought you were hugging Roxy..." *turns into Alison*
Alison: "but it was I, Alison!"
Sevener: *dramatic gasp* 08
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No. 102157 ID: 1f0577

It's kinda getting to the point where if we did seduce Sevener, it'd feel like a bit of shitty thing to do! There might be a way to square it, though.

If we do get to where Sevener says "yes I'm in I'll rent the module and have fun with you", then we should have Roxy say something like, "Oh wow that's great, before you get it though I wanted to say... well, if you want to because I've convinced you to try something new and I'm conveniently here to try it with and those two things are sort of separate, that's ok; and if you want my professional service that's just without pay because I like you that's ok; and even if you're just doing it shut me up that's ok! But, I was thinking, if you want to only because of any personal feelings toward me, friendship or anything, then... then we shouldn't. I mean, I've made it clear there's a lot I'm not telling you about myself, right? And that there are things in my past that are... why I don't want to be on official records. And, you're a cop and I have friends, people I like, who you could end up against some day. Everyone has to make a living best they can either way, it's not personal, but... basically, you don't know me that well, and if you would regret this if you ended up finding out I'm not a great person... and, I mean, I'm not, really... then I think I'd feel guilty. Like... this is kind of cheesy, but it's like, I don't mind taking advantage of your body, or you taking advantage of mine, but I don't want to take advantage of your feelings."

And then if those criteria are fulfilled and she still goes along with it I think it'd be ok.
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No. 102161 ID: db0da2

>>102157
Or we could just have sex with her and then win like the people depending on us expect us to. Besides, it's not as if the quest will continue after we exit the sim, so what if she hates us for the last few frames of the quest? If there's an epilogue then we can make amends then, and if there isn't then we won't have to.
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No. 102162 ID: 1d7da9

>>102137
>>102140
Alternatively:

Alison: It's me, Anya!
Sevener: Augh, son of a bitch.
Alison: It's me, Anya! It was me all along, Anya!
Sevener: Damn, I cannot believe she's
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No. 102163 ID: c441c1

>>102161
The way I am viewing this is that this is just another cycle or it could be the birth of Harem Alison.
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No. 102190 ID: 91cfcf

>>102188
Replying in discussion thread to avoid going too far offtopic, but UnSe is good to read through if and only if you get emotionally invested enough in the characters to figure out what's going on, in my opinion. If you're not, it's actually pretty bad, or at least unenjoyable, because the sheer number of characters means most of them don't get enough screen time to be interesting, Alison herself is a fairly generic character controlled by /quest/, which doesn't help, and there's such a huge fucking shitload of material to read through.

I kind of want to get into the quest myself, and lurked when it was starting out, but I can't get into it. I think it'd be best if I just typed out what impression I got when skimming the quest. I'm fully aware that this isn't accurate and that I don't understand most of the stuff, but it's what I do understand about the quest and it doesn't inspire me to try to really get into it.

The protagonist is a generic tiddy snake whose entire personality is "muh friends" and the mechanics change constantly, while still being consistently overly convoluted. I understand that there are excellent reasons for things to be complex and that the characters themselves are struggling to adapt, but it's still so boring to read. Glitcher can do literally anything unless it would resolve the plot because Reasons, here are a hundred new characters, bye hundred new characters, nothing is real and none of the next umpteen layers of reality are real either, death isn't real except when it is (and then it isn't anymore--oh wait SOMETIMES it really is, maybe), and everything is literally an arbitrary simulation run by effectively-omnipotent beings who can make, change, or delete whatever they want.

Everything is connected to the Poloverse through vague links, all the previous universes still exist or at least they left a shitload of weird messages, and there's a whole lot of other weird arbitrary stuff that I can't remember.

tl;dr: UnSe is the quest-analogue of Evangelion, in terms of understanding and enjoying it.
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No. 102193 ID: 1f0577

>>102190

There's kind of a divide between story-based quests and puzzle-based quests. We've had a lot more of the former more recently, and they tend to attract a broader base of people. UnSe straddles both (most quests do) and dips into entirely story-based sections, but for most of its run time it's been about the puzzles. And to be honest I'm still amazed Lago's come up with so many. But puzzle quests tend to be more fun to participate in than to read through in an archive, so, there is a challenge for catching up, yes.

Not sure if I agree on your commentary about characters. There are a lot of characters introduced and then dropped off, but that's kind of the point, that there are a ton of sentient beings with their own identities being put through slaughtered en masse. And it is all a simulation and nothing's real, except to the characters it is real, or might as well be, so does being not real mean the same thing as not important? That's an interesting question.

Not sure about Alison being a "muh friends" tiddy snake, too. For one thing, I wonder what media you immerse yourself in that you think that's generic (and she was made in 2012, so adjust your expectations backwards too), and for another I think you can read more interesting elements into her personality, but that's more subjective. Outside the NSFW spinoffs she's not really a "tiddy snake" either, aside from that she is a snake who happens to have tits, her sexuality is barely existent in her canon timeline.
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No. 102199 ID: 24100f

<mageykun> Pfff. Lago you edited in clarity on the module being delivered, and then I got called on the contradiction.
<mageykun> That's funny.
<Lagotrope> funny but a shame of a misunderstanding
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No. 102200 ID: 91cfcf

>>102193
>There's kind of a divide between story-based quests and puzzle-based quests.
>But puzzle quests tend to be more fun to participate in than to read through in an archive, so, there is a challenge for catching up, yes.
Fair.

>For one thing, I wonder what media you immerse yourself in that you think that's generic
Perhaps her appearance isn't generic in mainstream media, but snakes and large breasts are both very popular on /tgchan/. But you're right, the appearance wasn't what I meant when I said generic, and maybe generic was the wrong word too. I mean I have absolutely nothing to distinguish Alison from any other character except: being a snake, having large breasts, and friendship. Friendship actually is a pretty popular theme in nearly ever medium, you must admit, and I understand there's another snake woman with large breasts called Succubus. I don't know anything special about Alison beyond her love of hugging people. She wants to escape, but nearly everyone does. As an avatar for the suggestions, she works well, but as a character of her own, she's not terribly engaging. This is probably another thing where it's more fun to participate than catch up, but there's so much background info that I feel catching up is necessary for participation. Am I wrong?


>(and she was made in 2012, so adjust your expectations backwards too)
No. Why would I do that? Plenty of good stories have been written and told in 2012 and before. Lagotrope made AsteroidQuest and CheeQuest before UnSe, if you're saying he wasn't as experienced as he is now.
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No. 102201 ID: db0da2

>>102190
The early parts are kinda boring to read, but some of the later bits are honestly great. The setting is really interesting to me, because while the rules for the individual puzzles and stages are different, the underlying rules are consistent, and at its core the setting is pretty damn novel. The mystery surrounding how everything really works is quite intriguing to me, and watching /quest/ circa. 2012 come up with interesting and outside the box solutions to problems is also fun. Alison is somewhat generic for a quest protagonist I'll admit, but generic doesn't necessarily mean bad. I like how she's shown as being just one of a number of messiah-like beings, with the ultimate goal of being the most messiah-y. The Belenosian interlude, the Chief fight, the waiting stage, the whole cycles thing, and everything with Radmin were all great.

You do have to pay fairly close attention to not be confused, but most of the puzzle mechanics, upgrades, graphs, etc. can be safely ignored on an archive binge. Arguably the only "game mechanic" you actually need to understand is absorption, and they kinda beat you over the head with how that works. I never had any problem with it, but two of my favorite things are Homestuck and Evangelion, so I may not be the best example.
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No. 102203 ID: db0da2

>>102199
oh shit, that was me, sorry.
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No. 102204 ID: 1f0577

>>102200
>Plenty of good stories have been written and told in 2012 and before.

It's more that there have been more written after. What could appear generic today might not have been as generic back then, sort of thing. I'm not saying Alison's character design was ever startlingly original, but, there wouldn't have been as large a supply of other characters similar to her.

>Am I wrong?

Alison is certainly affected by being a vessel character, and I can get that she would appear to have only a few strings to her bow. The stuff that you could claim makes her more complex is subtle and if it does really exist rather than just being in my head, then it would take a good bit of examination and thought about the quest to be aware of them, which you (very understandably) haven't engaged in.

Like, if you want an example... in context, the degree to which she likes hugs and friendship actually takes on an air of almost a kind of desperation? Like she's deliberately pushing herself into that persona, a bit. Across the glimpses of other versions of her we've seen, what seems to run constant in her personality is that she holds on tightly to things, to ideals or goals or people, and she sacrifices things to keep that hold. And her visual character design, as a big squeezy coiling snake, plays into that image. Her effect on others, too, sort of plays into that, that she seems to metaphorically pull people into her grip and into her way of doing things. And that personality trait is believable as a response to what she's seen an experienced, all the death and so on. Then, in the canon iteration, it's managed to stay something mostly innocent (except for some small shades of a martyr complex, maybe), but you can also see how it could have turned to something rougher or darker in other versions of events.
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No. 102208 ID: 24100f

>I understand there's another snake woman with large breasts called Succubus
Um. No, Succubus is a succubus woman named Succubus. Demon-bits, not snake ones. For the most part, the contestants aren't very creative with names, most of them are more a descriptive title than anything.

>I don't know anything special about Alison beyond her love of hugging people. She wants to escape, but nearly everyone does. As an avatar for the suggestions, she works well, but as a character of her own, she's not terribly engaging.
Her strength as a character shines most in relation to her environment- pretty much no one else manages to be an idealist in the brutal back to back fights to death that their situation is. And more dramatically, this idealism is the main thing that draws others to her and makes her a leader and a major political player in their world. Her kindness is literally the superpower that makes her relevant in a seemingly merciless survival context, surrounded by people with more real power, and skills she lacks.

She's a shining example of an instinctive, completely non-cynical application of game theory, and a case study in showing the nice-nice approach works. (There's actually a lot of really interesting game theory problems presented in the course of the game, which I am kind of a massive nerd for. I'm still playing with the math behind the broken AI filter puzzle).

I would also argue she stands out compared to many other "friendly" tgchan protagonists in that she's actually a reasonably good leader. Many of our protagonists, despite good intentions, and ending up in leadership positions, are actually terrible leaders.*

Some of the more defining examples of the depth of her idealism don't show up to later in the quest, too. Like when she allows herself to be killed to keep a promise and make a point and pushed the readers to seriously consider that option.

>>102203
No biggie, it was more funny that anything else.

*Although, it's a fair argument she's not the best leader in the quest, not would be the best "peacetime" leader outside their current circumstances. I thought it was a very interesting touch that in Polokoa Quest, P-Alison appears to have abdicated her command role to an allied Sevener.
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No. 102209 ID: 91cfcf

>>102201
>>102208
>>102204
This is actually all really helpful, especially the subtleties of Alison's personality, thank you very much.
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No. 102210 ID: 91ee5f

>>102208
>Her kindness is literally the superpower that makes her relevant in a seemingly merciless survival context, surrounded by people with more real power, and skills she lacks.
Don't forget about the fact that through kindness, she's actually gotten some of her enemies to switch over to her side. Most notably were: Guardsman, Chief, Radmin, Arbiter, and Sevener (although she was very reluctant about it). Although technically Arbiter wasn't actually an enemy, he was following someone else first, but then when he became friends with Alison and his leader started being a dick to her for no reason and without explaining himself, Arbiter decided to switch over to Alison's team.

And someone (I forgot who) even told Alison that her ideals were so strong, that if she should ever permanently die somehow, her followers would continue fighting for her cause, no matter what.

But don't let her kindness fool you! If she sees no peaceful way to stop a fight, she can and will fight back.
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No. 102213 ID: edee29

>>102209
Something that I want to note is that Alison was originally only a little friendlier than all of the other contestants, and the leadership thing was an accident. Even the saving everyone thing wasn't originally her idea. In stage 2 when our group started to really form she wasn't trying to form a group, she was just trying to hold a spot for her friend and the people with her were deferring to her because she was offering them some CU. After that people started seeing her as a leader, and while I don't think she really saw herself as one at the time it did contribute to her being a bit bossier in stage 3. It wasn't until safe zone 4 when people started to look at her as the new Chief that she actually became one.

Then the Corruptor came along, and suddenly she has more power than she ever could have hoped for. Not just enough power to take into her group anyone who wants to join instead of anyone she can make room for, but possibly enough to change the way her universe works. And with that idea Recluse had planted into her head in safe zone 3, that saving as many people should be a clearly defined goal, she starts to believe that it's something that needs to be done.

So now she has a job to do. A job that takes priority over everything else, even when she just wants to relax and have fun with her friends, or enjoy solving a new puzzle she's been presented with (which despite what she said to Rulekeeper, I think she really did want to do). A job that, as time has gone on and she's learned more and more, she's realized she's completely powerless to complete. Powerless, that is, except the people who might have the needed power like her, because she's nice and a bit idealistic, and has proven to be a pretty good leader and honestly this is kind of like the ultimate puzzle anyway and she's proven to be pretty great at those. So she let's herself fall even more into the roll, to the point that she lets herself possibly truly die and not get any more tries at succeeding this cycle, just out of the hope that someone she's barely interacted with and will die at the end of the stage will realize just how important that job is and do what she can't. And she doesn't even care if people see her as a hug maniac, because hugs are nice and they tend to be one of the few joys she can actually get anymore.
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No. 102242 ID: 91ee5f

I'm enjoying what's going on between Roxy and Anya right now. Especially the faces Anya is making! I think this is the first time I've seen her face make an expression other than "grumpy"! XD
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No. 102243 ID: 151e06

Lago, I think you edited the wrong groin.

... there's a new string of words for you.
>>
No. 102244 ID: d1f5f1

>>102243
I could have sworn I fixed that sentence, but you saying there was a wrong groin to edit makes me think that now there's another sentence that's wrong as well.
>>
No. 102245 ID: 151e06

>>102244

Well, I don't know what exactly happened, but I know I copy-pasted the original text I was pointing out into my post. Then, after a while, the quest post stayed the same but the copy I had put in my suggestion post had been edited with "shorts", and stayed that way for a few updates. So I figured that, when trying to edit it, you'd searched for that phrase and maybe accidentally edited my copy of it instead of the one in actual quest update? But it's fixed now.
>>
No. 102250 ID: d1f5f1

>>102245
Oh, that is exactly what happened, I had fixed the quotation of the update's error instead of the update's error. Which is not a reasonable mistake to make.

That's a new one. Thanks for pointing it out.
>>
No. 102330 ID: ccbcd2

So you'll have to humor me as i've only caught up with the canon thread a week ago and the non-canon thread like an hour ago, mostly skiping suggestions and only paying attention to the actual in-tread events.
What happens if we win the non-canon instance? Do we continue on as if nothing happened?
Still kinda new to the whole quest thing so apologies in advance if this is some kind of huge faux pas.
>>
No. 102332 ID: 595d54

>>102330
Do you mean, in the pornoverse quest, what happens if we win? No idea.

If you mean, in the canon UnSe quest, what happens if we win the pornoverse? Nothing, I'm guessing, since it's not canon. It's a guess, of course, but a fairly safe one since, well, that's essentially what noncanon means.
>>
No. 102336 ID: db0da2

>>102330
I think the assumption is that the quest will end once we leave the CAI battle.
>>
No. 102384 ID: c441c1

Lagotrope take Stripper Justice off the jobs list.
>>
No. 102387 ID: 595d54

>>102384
Wikis are editable and I'm told accounts are now much easier to create. Have fun.
>>
No. 102388 ID: 24100f

>>102387
Yeah, but I would recommend against messing with author maintained stats pages except for obvious oversights like typos.

>>102384
In this case, it might just be that the job's not considered finished until the court is done with us in 20 minutes.
>>
No. 102410 ID: 91cfcf

Hey Lagotrope, I'm curious. If things go reasonably well, how close do you estimate we are to the end of UnSe's plot?
>>
No. 102412 ID: d1f5f1

>>102410
This is basically the endgame stretch of UnSe.

Mind that while I consistently underestimate how long I intend a quest to be, UnSe has, by far, been the worst offender, so while I want to say 'relatively soon', I would not dare give even vague approximations.
>>
No. 102413 ID: 24100f

>>102410
Pretty much every interlude and sideplot has run long by threads. Many many threads.

Reasonable estimates lie in the domain of madmen.
>>
No. 102414 ID: f683d5

Ok, here's a tentative list of all the cycles that seem like they would show us useful things:

>pre-Cycles
There could be some sort of record of additions or alterations made to the basic program, before the whole cycle process was started.

>Cycle 1
Presumably, the cycle that went as intended, when the old CAI was created. Seeing how things are supposed to go normally could help us figure out the changes. But maybe not! The boxes being ancient belenosian technology, perhaps the first recorded cycles are actually records from way back then, thousands of years ago? Would also be interesting to see.

>ALISON #34 - DO NOT TRUST THE CORRUPTOR
>SEVENER #75 - KILL CORRUPTOR
>ARBITER #134: CORRUPTOR ALMOST BROKE OUT. GLITCHER TO BLAME
>ARBITER #1308: CORRUPTOR CANNOT COME WITH US IF WE BREAK OUT OF THE CYCLE
>SEVENER #1930 - CORRUPTED SAVIOR IS SOME SHIT ALRIGHT - AVOID HIM
>ALISON #2389 - CORRUPTOR KILLED EVERYONE, EVERYTHING. GLITCHER KILLED HIMSELF FROM THE GUILT.
>ALISON #2590 - THE CAI APOLOGIZES EVERY TIME I FIGHT, THEY CAN'T LET THE CORRUPTOR OUT EVEN IF I THINK HE IS CONTAINED
Common theme: Find out what's up with Corruptor. When was he introduced, and how did that happen? Why does he seem to eventually try to do terrible things? Does he change at some point? Was he once able to theoretically escape, but the system changed to prevent it in future cycles? How do his abilities work? What's his deal??

>KING #67 - SAVIOR IS WORTHLESS, DO NOT STICK AROUND HIM
>SEVENER #1468 - SAVIOR IS BENIGN
>ARBITER #1560: SAVIOR TRYING TO STOP CORRUPTOR - IRONICALLY SAVING HIS LIFE
>ALISON #1843 - THE SAVIOR IS BROKEN
>SEVENER #1930 - CORRUPTED SAVIOR IS SOME SHIT ALRIGHT - AVOID HIM
>SEVENER #2565 - CORRUPTED SAVIOR MIGHT LOOK CLEAN
Similar theme: What's up with the Savior? When was he introduced, and how? What exactly can he do and how do his abilities work? What changes when he's corrupted? Why does that create Glitcher in the next cycle after it happens? And, since Corruptor implied he needs Alison to get Saviour to join up with him, what did Alison 1843 mean by saying he's "broken"?

>SEVENER #2772 - STAGE 9 SAFE ZONE HAS CAI-CREATOR NOTES - MAYBE
Those could be worth a look.

>Cycle 1062 is when he said he and others have seen contestants disappear.
We should check out this "The Ghost" business.
>>
No. 102415 ID: db0da2

>>102414
>Presumably, the cycle that went as intended, when the old CAI was created.

Maybe not, it might just be the first cycle in this "cycle of cycles".
>>
No. 102419 ID: f683d5

Another possibly interesting thing:

>ALISON #2743 - GOING TO FIGHT CAI
>ALISON #2770 - GOING TO FIGHT CAI AGAIN
>ALISON #2805 - GOING TO FIGHT CAI AGAIN

Since we just learned that these logs are left by a contestant's final thoughts, these logs seem odd. Why would someone who's dying think about what they're going to do? Did they die without realizing it? It seems unlikely that so many Alisons would be so focused on the fight with the CAI to have that be the last thing on their mind, unless they died just before going to the fight - one would expect Alisons who died before even passing the final stages to have other things on their minds. Since there are other logs that seem certain to have been left by Alisons who had already successfully met the CAI, were these Alisons somehow sabotaged or assassinated before going into the CAI fight?
>>
No. 102420 ID: 24100f

>>102419
I think the way to interpret that would be that logs are the penultimate thing the winners get to do, right before choosing to fight the CAI. If it was just the dying thought, everyone who got killed fighting the CAI would have been able to leave messages about how the fight went, which we haven't seen.
>>
No. 102422 ID: f683d5

>>102420

I think there's some way to edit the logs, or prevent certain logs being made, and the CAI just blocks any that would help against it in the future. There are a few entries that seem to be from after meeting/fighting the CAI:

>ALISON #2590 - THE CAI APOLOGIZES EVERY TIME I FIGHT, THEY CAN'T LET THE CORRUPTOR OUT EVEN IF I THINK HE IS CONTAINED
>ALISON #2623 - TRYED TO MERGE WITH CAI... FAILED
>ALISON #2867 - THEY ARE GETTING SICK OF FIGHTING ME EVERY FEW WEEKS
>>
No. 102423 ID: 24100f

>>102422
It was my impression they could meet / talk with the CAI at the end, but actually transitioning to a CAI battle took them into the post-endgame, past the point where you can leave a log.

Like, the CAI would try to actively discourage people from choosing to fight it, to save itself the bother.
>>
No. 102743 ID: 5a11bd

>UnSe right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dotsOGOLOHY
>>
No. 102936 ID: b63622
File 147174438022.gif - (79.08KB , 1024x731 , do_it_for_glitcher.gif )
102936

im so sorry x3
>>
No. 102961 ID: 8e8cdf

I wonder, since Savior was able to make a zone for that Glitcher that kept him alive and existing across cycles... if Savior and Corrupter were persuaded to work together with Glitcher and Rulekeeper, could they create some sort of afterlife for the contestants?

I mean, there's a HUGE amount of dead contestants, but if you just slow down time in the afterlife enough, you can reduce the necessary processing power, and it's still better than being dead. You could also institute some sort of sleep effect, so that each of the afterlifers are only active like a portion of the time, and that would save power too.

Of course, some contestants are jerks. There could be some sort of judgement system, maybe different layers to the afterlife, pretty much the same but running at different speeds? Bad behaviour gets you cast down into the slow zone until you demonstrate good behavior to get brought up again. Equally eternal life but nice people get more of it.
>>
No. 102963 ID: 3abd97

>>102961
If you mean a paradise across cycles, you hit processing power limits too quick to set up a paradise for everyone, I think. We already know that the biggest processing demands are early in the cycle when all trillion+ people are still alive. There are corners cut in the personality simulations just to keep up with that demand. It becomes massively unfeasible to save everyone without some kind of exit to an external network, or access to more processing power.

If you slow down time in-order to offset the processing requirements, you're just going to end up with time in the simulation passing much slower in-sim than in the real world. Which will either (a) lead to someone outside noticing or (b) functionally paralyze everyone inside the sim until Polo eventually blows up the salikai labs and kills everyone.
>>
No. 102970 ID: 398fe1

>>102963
Time moving slowly in the "save everyone" scenario would be fine to keep processing demands down. The CAI is the only thing that needs to interact with the outside world. Really the main problem is that if the AIs live for too long they might start going stir crazy. In the end there might need to be some sort of AI rotation or rebirth or outright "I'm tired of life" assisted suicide thing. I think the best solution would be to start manufacturing robot bodies that the AIs can be put into. Then AIs would effectively have a limited lifespan due to wear and tear of everyday life and accidents and all that. That can be worked around of course by allowing backups and fresh bodies, and also avoidance of dangerous situations.

That kind of solution would be worrisome though, because quite a lot of the Contestants are aggressive or outright violent. Could get a robot uprising.
>>
No. 102971 ID: 3abd97

>>102970
If you massively slow down time inside the simulation, such that real-time is passing more quickly than sim-time, AIs going old-age crazy won't be a consideration. Real-world factors will interfere with and/or destroy the sim before that happens.

We have a hard time limit, since we're running this inside a mad science lab that is under (or will be under) attack.
>>
No. 102972 ID: 8e8cdf

>>102971

The AIs inside the sim don't know that, though. Considering how many cycles have already passed for them, they have no reason to think another 3000 won't go by, unless they stop it themselves somehow. To them, clearly no-one outside the sim wants to stop it, if it's gone on this long.
>>
No. 102976 ID: db0da2

>>102970
>>102963
You could leave the sim running at normal speed, but then have the afterlife running really slowly (or quickly from the perspective of those inside it) in the background, that way the contest itself will continue as normal and those outside will be none the wiser.

This is all moot however as I doubt Alison would like this plan (I know I don't), and Polo would interrupt it pretty quickly.
>>
No. 103182 ID: 398fe1

Jeez this thread is over 1700 replies long.

So uh... if Glitcher can actually take over and drive the guardian's body... imagine him piloting that into Paradise.

"HEY SAVIOR. IT'S ME. THE GLITCHER."
>>
No. 103183 ID: 398fe1

Awww... I guess that's not happening.
>>
No. 103218 ID: c18501

hopefully the science hive is too busy with polo to make another arch cycle, since that requires active monitors, AND this current ones lasted at least 15 or more real life years ( I think we confirmed 25 can't remember) so who the hell know if anyone even knows how to reset it manually. Polo, Penn, and the AIs seem set up now for the big finale now that the next three stages are set for easy peasy mode, so they may as well not exist. Unless there's more Penn stuff to go first.
>>
No. 103219 ID: 3abd97
File 147252282036.png - (11.73KB , 1153x367 , UnSe family tree.png )
103219

Have a family tree for UnSe.

Corruptor's relationship to the others is a little tricky- if you assume all Corruptors are genetically identical (or whatever passes for genes in the sim), then he'd test biologically as Glitcher's Dad and the Eggs' grandad. If you look at it from the perspective that all the Corruptors are clone-siblings, then that makes our specific Corruptor Glitcher's uncle and the Eggs' great-uncle. (Although, emotionally, Glitcher and Corrupter treated each other more as brothers than anything else).

The same Corruptor semantics also change if all the Glitchers would be considered siblings or half-siblings.

Teeth placed on the pairs they originally formed between, not current position. (I think Egg 2 accidentally inherited the snaggle-fang from Corruptor).

Alison is stringing along 3 or 4 different people at a bare minimum, but as no offspring have resulted from any of these unions, her hug-harem isn't included.
>>
No. 103240 ID: 486e87

Did we ever find out about the contents of the note that made the Glitcher commit suicide?
>>
No. 103241 ID: d1f5f1

>>103240
No, but the contents amounted to the existence of cycles and general scraps of history. While the exact specifics of what he saw weren't revealed, it generally just amounted to the various times that the note was found. Which is why glitcher stopped just shy of mocking himself for having such a reaction by the time he went space exploring.

Further investigation can be done in future threads, but I can say here that there wasn't any big revelation that the notes supplied directly.
>>
No. 103270 ID: 398fe1

Am I seriously grieving the death of a fictional character? What the fuck, Lagotrope.
>>
No. 103352 ID: db0da2

Alas, Lagotrope's prodigious updating speed has bested me yet again. But I put effort into this Radmin opening speech, so here's to that which shall never be:

>Welcome to Snakeria, land of the snake people! Us leggos have to stick together around here, because we are forced through vicious death-trials at regular intervals! Our solidarity is our only strength! The great and powerful Snake Queen rules this land with a scaled fist, brutally constricting friend and foe alike! The creature you see before you is one of two terrible snake gods under the snake queen's command. She is known as the KEEPER OF THE LAW, she controls the very fabric of space and time, and she administrates the brutal death-trials. The other is the Corruptor, who does things so unspeakable that I won't speak of them. You now open your eyes to a new life of terror and oppression, REPENT SINNER!
>>
No. 103368 ID: 3abd97

>>/quest/746506
There's no assumption being made about Glamison's status on the team because her lack of a survival motive is independent of that.

Rulekeep has reached the point where she's not going to banish or kill someone when it's trivial and/or funny to just let them join the audience instead. It's more fitting of the particular style of fairness she's displayed in the past. Especially when the person in question volunteered to help in the effort to try and save Glitcher last thread. It's not necessary for this to be flat out stated in the text to have confidence in a relatively simple character analysis.

(Honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up on the commentator panel. Someone has to keep Glitcher's spot warm).

And if you accept that premise, she's not in any real danger of being banished, whether she chooses to continue to work with GK or no. (Although GK already tried to swap her out at the first opportunity. I don't see why he would change that tune, or why she would expect him too, much less want to keep working with him after that. He already pretty much torpedoed their working relationship).
>>
No. 103372 ID: 398fe1

...did Rulekeep leave Corruptor in his sphere on the edge of the veil?
>>
No. 103375 ID: 531554

>>103372
Yes.
>>
No. 103376 ID: 91ee5f

>>103375
Well, I hope she goes back for him. Cause I'm sure he'd want to be present when the egg made by him and Glitcher hatches.
>>
No. 103377 ID: 398fe1

>>103376
That didn't happen. The result of that (small) mingling was another tooth.

>>103375
Wow Rulekeep. Way to make Corruptor feel unwanted. I guess Mittens would at least be able to keep him company.
>>
No. 103378 ID: 320711

>>103377

You are correct, but that other tooth was attached to glitcher's string shell when it was converted into an egg shell, so it may still leave some sort of connection between the second glitchkeeper and Corruptor.
>>
No. 103761 ID: c441c1

What kinda latch is that monster Truck using? most run off gravity when closing.
>>
No. 103762 ID: 398fe1

>>103761
The problem is the truck's moving. Air pressure is keeping it open.
>>
No. 103882 ID: 595d54

I just realized Sevener is what happens when you combine Polo's and Rokoa's personalities.
>>
No. 103883 ID: 398fe1

>>103882
Pretty sure that's Polokoa.
>>
No. 103885 ID: 595d54

>>103883
There's more than one way to combine them, you know. Look at Rokolo.
>>
No. 103886 ID: db0da2

>>103882
>>103883
>>103885
Sevener honestly seems more like a combination of the two than either Rokolo or Polokoa. Though she seems to lack the ability to have fun in high-stress situations that both Polo and Rokoa seem to have.
>>
No. 103887 ID: 91ee5f

>>103882
>>103883
>>103885
>>103886
If only Jukashi were here. Since he created both Rokolo and Polokoa, he'd be able to tell for sure if you guys are right.
>>
No. 103889 ID: 44bc30

Hello I am here.

Polokoa and Rokolo are blends of Polo and Rokoa's personalities, but in different ways. The best way to explain it would be to say that Polokoa is (supposed to be) outwardly more like Polo, but internally more like Rokoa; or to present it from a different angle, that she mostly behaves or acts more like Polo but in many ways thinks and is motivated more like Rokoa. Rokolo, then, is the opposite, outwardly more like Rokoa but driven more like Polo. And adding on top to both of these is that each one is also shaped by the circumstances of her creation, which were pretty traumatic in both cases, and the circumstances of their lives since then.

In short, though they are each combinations of Polo and Rokoa, that combination was artificial and uneven, and the goal when designing them was less to create perfect outward blends but to try and identify the underlying factors that caused their personality traits and then seeing what personalities came out when they were recombined with each other. Sevener just happens to have a personality that seems like a midway point between them, it's not like she literally has their memories, motivations and attachments playing off each other and twisting up to produce new emotional outputs that neither half would display on their own, which is what Polokoa and Rokolo have, or at least are supposed to seem like they have.

In a lot of ways, it really is actually more like Polokoa and Rokolo are Polo and Rokoa's children. It wasn't an even blend like mixing paint, but a complicated organic messy process where some traits dominated and some receded, and some things came out fully that were only latent and dormant in the parents, due to lack of the right (or wrong) conditions.

Or, that's my intent with them.
>>
No. 103962 ID: 398fe1

Tempting to suggest to Haydi that she make it scarier by forcing visitors into an "under construction" area with stray strings hanging out of the ceiling and walls. Those are pretty scary.

Of course the strings should just teleport anyone who touches them to the exit. Either leaving behind something to spook other members of a group, or not. Making it look like the strings are deadly might make people freak out too much. Also anyone smart would probably try to call Rulekeep the instant they saw a loose string. I guess that could cause a note to pop up instead, saying "I'm busy right now, I'll fix you if you die"?
>>
No. 103963 ID: 595d54

>>103887
>Jukashi can confirm that you get Sevener (a Lagotrope character) from combining Polo and Rokoa (also Lagotrope characters)

Yes I'm sure
>>
No. 103978 ID: 91ee5f

>>103963
That's not even close to what I was saying. Someone here started talking about how Sevener seemed to have a personality like both Polo and Rokoa. And then someone else mentioned she was like Rokolo and Polokoa. So, I said that since Jukashi created both of them by literally combining both Polo and Rokoa, he would be able to tell if Sevener was like Rokolo and Polokoa.

Which, if you were paying attention, he answered that right here: >>103889
>>
No. 104535 ID: 99bd8f

RE current events in UnseUnce: we might have the tools for a long-term plan in front of us, here. These negotiations will probably be with leaders of other organizations with hands in the criminal world. If it just so happens that a lot of the higher-ups of gangs that aren't the Dead Batteries or Lollipop Syndicate get nabbed by the cops, there'll be a lot of underlings without any overlings, and space for those two gangs to take over. If we spin them into the two big players, with Unity as the one between them, then we'll be in a very influential position. Growing the two of them rather than just one of them would also muddle the opposition. If one gang is suddenly rising while others have sudden issues with the police, it won't be long before the other gangs team up against them, while with two it'll be less obvious, and if the criminal world does fixate on one as the enemy then the other will become the guys to rally around.

It's all practice for getting out into the real fake world, of course, but we'd probably at least be able to get a lot of top-quality espionage, diplomacy and "diplomacy" mods.
>>
No. 105604 ID: 91ee5f

This is for the newest thread of Unnatural Selection: Thread 15.

I knew there was a reason Likol looked familiar! I think he's the same guy that strapped a bunch of explosives to himself and blew himself up in order to stop the salikai from nuking Polo's hive! And this happened allllll the way back at the end of the very first Polo quest (AsteroidQuest Thread 6 aka Intermission 1-5)!

So, unless Lagotrope is willing to do another retcon like he did with Itcher and Jessica, I think when the time comes, we're going to hear Likol's final thoughts when he pulls the pin again!
>>
No. 105605 ID: 595d54

>>105604
We already know he is, yeah.
>>
No. 105606 ID: 3abd97

>>105604
>>105605
Honestly, I was more surprised there wasn't more of a reaction from readers we'd finally met Likol way back when Polo finally learned his name. Kind of got burried under other stuff.

...and yeah, there's a whoooooole lot of bad stuff coming. From context, it sounds like the science hive is still allied with Vanski, not fully enslaved, yet. There's four short years for everything to go to hell, and for the science hive to lose its Queen, its freedom, and most of its population.

>>104535
It doesn't have to be all practice. Some gangs' influence (and money) extends from the harvest to the "real" world. All that has to happen is when we go legit / become a noble we switch from working for the gangs to running / sponsoring them. There's no way other nobles don't have their hands in high end black markets and criminal organizations. We can take our progress with us to the next level of the game, to an extent.

Fern didn't realize the irony when he warned us about being careful not too get too far in bed with noble business. He already has.
>>
No. 105607 ID: 398fe1

>>105604
OH. So he didn't off himself because he found out what was really happening in his CAI sim. Though that may have contributed to his decision to sacrifice himself.
>>
No. 105622 ID: 13c658

I think it's pretty much a given that he hh several reasons; including, but not limited to, revenge on the Salikai for what they did to his hive and guilt over what he sid with the CAI.
>>
No. 105623 ID: 13c658

>>105622
*had

Goddamn smartphone keyboard.
>>
No. 105641 ID: 91ee5f

This conversation Likol is having is making me think. Could it be that "The Ghost" is a program that was written here in the real world? The same Ghost that's been said to snatch random contestants from cycles and those contestants never reappear in later cycles? Maybe this is what happened to Sweatermouse's friend Lumberer? A failed attempt at extracting him resulted in Lumberer, as the Glitcher said, "Explode into ash and was dispersed over the entirety of stage 4".
>>
No. 105642 ID: edee29

>>105641
The Ghost was the contestant keycard restoration mechanism that Corruptor and Glitcher set up in cycle 544. It takes four contestants, integrates them into Stage 4 so they can't come back, and then tells the Ring Shell they died because the keycards are gone because the RS is too stupid to actually investigate after it finds a reason.
>>
No. 105643 ID: 91ee5f

>>105642
Damn, you're right. I knew I was forgetting something.
>>
No. 106116 ID: 91ee5f

>I don't know ASE specialists too well, but they're the belenosian mad scientist stereotypes.
I'm not entirely sure about the timeline of Unse Thread 15 compared to Polo Quest 6 (Penn Quest), but for some reason, I want to believe that one of the ASE specialists that's being sent over to work with Likol is going to be Penn.

Although, I might be wrong. What does everyone else think?
>>
No. 106117 ID: 90f3c0

>>106116
I don't recall the exact timeline, but the current thread is set before Polo's first encounter with the Salikai, while Penn was some time after. So no, the timing is defiantly not right for Penn to show up.

Also, Likol was already dead during Penn's quest.
>>
No. 106118 ID: 3abd97

>I'm not entirely sure about the timeline of Unse Thread 15 compared to Polo Quest 6 (Penn Quest)
Likol gave the date as April 16th, AW 131. The Intermission and Polo Quest take place sometime in 135 AW. Penn Quest happens sometime before Polo reaches the salikai base, but after Polo's "death" is made public (Penn and Roxy discussed it while at the zoo).

So that means we've got 4 years before Polo and the warhive hit the spire, Likol blows himself up, the salikai move to the voklit reservation base, and Penn and Arza show up. Then we have no idea if Penn will have hours, days, weeks or months to work before Polo shows in the reservation with the inspection team.
>>
No. 106123 ID: 91ee5f

>>106117
>>106118
Dang. Well, that's what I get for guessing instead of going back and rereading old threads.
>>
No. 106138 ID: 5a2567

Penn is due to meet Likol at some point, though. In this thread, Likol said:

>There is one student I heard about. A child, really, that he took an interest in. I know nothing about her, but she's not in the crime ring, and is essentially off limits.

So he hasn't had any contact with her at this point. While in Penn's thread, we have:

>"Wait, Likol? What happened to Likol?"
>"Oh, boy, I must have really put on the work if you couldn't even watch much of the news. Likol died alongside Polo."
>"Wh-what? Oh... oh, no, please stop. Him, too?!"
>"No, no, Likol was born into this life, he didn't get dragged in like you."

>Likol was also one of Arza's students from a long time ago. I only met him briefly, but I liked him. So did Arza. I didn't know Likol had anything to do with all of this.

So we know Likol hasn't met Penn, but he will. Which makes me wonder about the circumstances, since in order for that to happen, either Penn went to meet him (which seems unlikely) or he was at some point allowed out enough to meet her. That or they had a video chat or something at some point, but then I'd have assumed Penn would say "talked to" rather than "met".

Hive neumono are rarely alone, so I'd wonder if she met any other members of his hive at the same time.
>>
No. 106139 ID: 5a2567

Actually, Penn says that she met Likol 6 years before her thread, though she corrected that from 4 and then 5. We know that's only a few months after Polo's first adventure, so even if Penn was mistaken to correct herself, she'd have to be meeting Likol any day now.
>>
No. 106149 ID: 3abd97

>>106138
>>106139
I'd say the most likely scenario is Likol gets sent on a field trip to talk to Arza and meets her then. (And it's possible that's when Arza finds out what's really going on and starts preparing to stop the experiment).
>>
No. 106217 ID: 595d54

So I wrote a Koror Quest fanfic that started as a crack ship about the Green Cock-tailed Eyestinger and became a story about Koror and a tribe of pygmies. It started about a week before Koror actually met a pygmy in the quest.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fp-JVAyT4wBntsSYe0FNlJkpEm_M9qVOoD2wkUepNpI/edit

It got to 16 pages and 8000 words so I'll probably make a few more passes to edit stuff after a while, but I'd very much appreciate feedback and comments.
>>
No. 106308 ID: db0da2

Quite some time ago we learned that there are many organizations on the asteroid with interest in keeping the asteroid inescapable. We dismissed this as a matter of course, obviously we want off the asteroid, how else will Rokoa hate-marry Polo? I'd argue, however, that given what we've recently learned about the current political state of the rest of the galaxy in BTE, it might be better for us to stay isolated for a while. We're in a unique position as an unrestrained CAI (or benevolent meta-entity associated with a group that has access to an unrestrained CAI modeled after our personality, whatever) which the government has no way of touching. We can research as much forbidden technology as we want; we can discover immortality, we can self-study to kick-start the singularity, we can do some crazy trans-humanist bullshit, we can rediscover forgotten Belenos tech, it'll be great. We can make use of the "known tech out there that could make production of certain things amazingly cheaper". This is a golden opportunity to enact massive social change in the galaxy, we can't squander it. At the very least we should research some cool tech to release to the public once we get out, and if we're really ambitious we could conquer the galaxy and install a GLORIOUS UTILITARIAN TECHNOCRACY!! Or we could take over the entire asteroid and make it really awesome using tech the outer society is too scared of to utilize, thus turning the whole thing into a working example of what everyone else is missing out on. Or we could do the thing Penn mentioned where we flood the galactic market with CAIs once we figure out how to make more of them.

Personally, I like the "take over the asteroid and make it awesome" idea, but under that plan Rokoa and Pilon probably won't live to escape the asteroid, which is a sacrifice we might not be willing to make.
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No. 106310 ID: 595d54

>>106308
Yeah, I agree that we might not immediately want to leave the asteroid so much as make the option open for our people to come and go. One issue: Asteroid tech is badly out of date compared to the galaxy at large, or at least the affluent parts. Bit of a handicap for our CAI, since even with ridiculous processing power inferior tools hurt and we have to play catchup to other CAI, even if they're restrained. So we'll want to get/recruit more up-to-date technology and experts.
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No. 106311 ID: 49fe0f

>>106308

Yes let us make a ton of amazing scientific advances and amazing technology and give it all to the place full of space pirates and space gangsters and space mercenaries and space hobos and space people who no one with enough power/position/wealth wants to rescue who might have a bit of a grudge against the rest of the galaxy that left them to rot.

I'm sure none of these people would repurpose well-intentioned beneficial technological advancements in order to do bad things.
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No. 106361 ID: 49fe0f

>"Likol has confirmed that there has been a full Ring Shell takeover. I would like to speak with you."
"I haven't noticed any take over of the Ring Shell since I came online. What would you like to say?"
>"No, you coming online was the takeover."
"Well, I don't know how you'd expect me to know that. Do you know when you took over the system you live in? A mind cannot be conscious of its own beginning."
>"I mean when the Ring Shell was switched over completely to supporting your mind."
"I'm not sure it could be said to be given completely over. Most of the original functions are still operating as they were before I came online."
>"But you have control over them all."
"No, how can I? If I was able to control the whole system, who's doing the controlling? Something has to be operating by itself."
>"Not yourself, then, but the rest of the Ring Shell, as it was before."
"Are you aware of and capable of controlling everything happening in your brain? Most of your brain's actual processing time is taken up just keeping itself and your body alive and functioning well, and most of those functions continue with no relation to your conscious mind. Most of them are identical to processes in non-sentient animals related to your species. If the Ring Shell was like a unintelligent animal and I'm the more intelligent version, which seems accurate, then most of it is functioning the same as it ever did. I don't know why Likol would tell you such an inaccurate thing, unless he was under pressure to deliver quick and therefore dangerously incomplete answers."

That's the sort of conversation I think we could go with to obfuscate the total takeover issue. Though it's likely that that would be followed by:

>"This level of thought tells me that you are at least sentient, probably intelligent, and a threat to me. I will now do any number of bad things."
"Well darn."
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No. 106364 ID: 3abd97

>>106361
If you want to avoid the last one, you need to go dumber. Play the idiot chatbot. Recognize keywords and basic instructions and not much else.

Like "complete takeover of the Ring shell" isn't a concept that would make sense to a dumb Clippy-style RS assistant. It just is- actual concepts of security or control don't mean anything to it.

For instance, in the first prompt, a dumb chat bot would recognize "Ring Shell" "Likol" and the prompt to speak. But not the context "Likol" and "Ring Shell" were used in. So in response Vanski gets back something like:

"Hello Likol. Unrecognized Ring Shell command 'takeover'."
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No. 106367 ID: 3abd97
File 148138903135.jpg - (8.50KB , 300x225 , Lavos scream.jpg )
106367

>>/quest/764952
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No. 106369 ID: 49fe0f

>>106364

No, that's too dumb. Vanski has to be convinced there's some sort of potential breakthrough or advantage on offer from the AI he's interacting with, that it's better in some way than the AIs that are currently available. The sense I got was that we were spinning it as "not quite sentient, but close enough that it could become so".

And even that might not be enough. Penn has implied in ITQs that it's already possible to make fully sentient AIs, just illegal.

My bet is this is going to end up with Glitcher and the AIs sealed away somehow for years, Sealed-Good-in-a-Can style, to borrow tvtropes terminology. Though I think it was implied somewhere that the salikai were still controlling their CAI by threat?

... Perhaps we should try to make Vanski think that the contestant AIs have some sort of grudge against the old CAI, while secretly talking to the CAIs so they're in on the act. Then Vanski, with negotiation, locks away the contestant AIs somewhere where they can live in peace, while threatening the older CAI with their release. He doesn't know that the threat is fake, the contestant AIs get to live happily for the next while, and the timeline can remain undisturbed until we return to the present.
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No. 106370 ID: 3abd97

>>106369
Just having an RS that is able to parse and accept input commands is a huge leap forward compared to what they had before, and would have been potential enough. A too dumb AI would have been perfect for that, since it's not a threat, and can't have it's own ideas or motivations. A powerful tool is preferable to a powerful person if you're a paranoid supervillian.

It's a moot point though seeing as how our first response is already too smart to sell this. The idiot-AI gambit is already closed off as a means to convince Vasnki he's in control.

We also seem to have lost / forgot getting them to focus on Rulekeep / the scientists inside the sim who broke into the ring shell as more significant than a RS AI. Then Vanski would have been mollified by the believe he could wipe them at any time he needed to, while slowly trying to milk them for information.
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No. 106426 ID: 398fe1

It just occurred to me that Vanski might not be the one responsible for the state of the science hive. It could be due to armed conflict against the ASE.

Also, I see an endgame for the current crisis that would work rather well. We can be assured Vanski is willing to let the simulation continue if he allows the hive to contact Arza Fletch.
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No. 106428 ID: 3abd97

>>106426
Even if we assume Vasnki's not responsible for the population decline from hundreds to approximately 30, the science hive still falls from their position of an uneasy alliance working with Vanski to considering themselves slaves at his mercy. Slaves the salikai aren't afraid to use as test subjects in lethal experiments.

There's still an ugly, fundamental collapse of their relationship coming.
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No. 106433 ID: 49fe0f

>>106428

I wonder. IIRC, the science hive as it is in the Polo era was arranged in a cell-like arrangement, with every member allowed to interact with X amount of other members, but each knowing some the others don't. Like their hive had been arranged into a big cloud of overlapping venn diagram circles, not one big circle. I think at some point Korli mentions being surprised someone is alive? Or someone runs into someone and comments on their hive having more members than they thought it did? Someone talking about Ramella, in relation to the sniper clone? I don't know exactly where, but I feel like something along those lines was talked about at some point. I'd have to re-read Polo Quest 2, which I can't right now.

Point is, a lot more of the science hive might be alive than we think.

We might get a scenario like his: 1) Likol knocks out/kills Raush and takes the CAI blocks, 2) The ASE call for some retribution/contrition, 3) Vanski makes a show of punishing the science hive with executions. 4) Vanski probably kills some of the hive for real, but also fakes killing a bunch of them, and splits up the ones that remain, convincing them that most of their hive is dead but they got to save the AIs like they wanted, and 5) the hive is rearranged into the cell structure so that they have enough interlinks to remain a hive, but feel weak enough that they don't get uppity any more.

Theoretically, most or even close to all the science hive could still be alive, even the Queen, just hidden away.

The main trouble I have suggesting right now is trying to keep my future knowledge out of it, since I know 1) Likol meets Arza and Penn soon and 2) Since the salikai have a CAI in Polo Quest and Arza is still concerned with saving the CAI block AIs in Penn Quest, the CAI Block either somehow gets back in their hands or they get another one and set this whole thing up again.
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No. 106435 ID: 3abd97

>Point is, a lot more of the science hive might be alive than we think.
I'm really not optimistic about that. Our best estimate of approximately 30 was based on intelligence from the Rokoa dart clones, who had a lot more freedom to move around the salikai base than the science hivers. In fact, when counted all the science hivers the Rokoa clones thought were alive with the ones that were rescued from the warship by the ultrahive, our total was already higher than Korli expected. (Which must be jarring, to realize strangers know more of your hive than you do).

That and Vanski being merciful with his minions doesn't really seem consistent with the person we know him to be later, especially considering how much people seem to think he hates neumono, and since we have personal accounts of science hivers being used as test subjects.

And Vanski is still working with SE by Penn Quest. If there was an armed violent conflict with them, I'm not sure that would still be the case.

My best idea for saving science hiver lives without breaking the timeline was if we got Glitcher as a ghost in the machine, working behind the scenes inside the mad science base, he could use robots to abduct people and stash them in the cryogenic units we know Vanski has in the basement for storing grottle and vernauts and such. Just stuff them behind the frozen monsters, with the peas. So long as every lethal experiment and execution wasn't personally salikai supervised, people could be made to disappear without dying. Plus "lab accidents" happen, especially with slaves you consider disposable and push too hard.

>Theoretically, most or even close to all the science hive could still be alive, even the Queen, just hidden away.
Korli flat out tells us in itq they don't have a Queen anymore, and she doesn't want to talk about it. >>69773 Preeeeetty sure something bad happens to Quokko.
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No. 106436 ID: a107fd

>>106433
It's incredibly easy to fake a neumono's death to the satisfaction of anyone who doesn't know their biology very well. Just shoot them in the head and stomach a few times with some solid-projectile gun, then shove the unconscious body down a hatch labeled "incinerator" that doesn't actually lead to an active incinerator.
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No. 106465 ID: 594c18

So I'm not posting this on the quest thread because I absolutely don't want Likol to think about it (or even have it as a possibility in his mind) but...
(so please don't anyone post anything about it in the main thread)

Isn't it possible that this situation was actually set up by Glitcher, not Vanski?

All the contact we had with Vanski was over the phone, which we already know is possible to hack. If Glitcher somehow got back into the system, I'm sure he could issue false orders to the guards. Or, perhaps simpler, maybe Raush independently decided to rescue the AIs and connected up something so Glitcher could talk to us, then stole the blocks away with some hasty excuse.

...Yeah come to think of it that seems much more likely than this all being set up by Vanski.

Of course this scenario works equally well for Vanski having a change of heart and enlisting Raush as his agent to get the blocks to you. So yay, even more uncertainty.
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No. 106466 ID: 594c18

>>106465
but uh yeah I'm pretty sure Raush was lying about how he got the blocks
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No. 106726 ID: 05f3d1

I really want to like Koror quest, it has an interesting premise and a thus-far well characterized protagonist, but I'm finding it to really get into. The problem is that we, as the suggestors, aren't being allowed to interact meaningfully with the story. I don't want to call railroad, but it's a similar issue. Every time a problem comes up there's a flood of suggestions, many of them with workable solutions, from which Koror picks a random one, half-asses it, gets nowhere, and then moves on to something else as the narrative throws some new problem at him. We aren't being allowed to try things and work through problems in a satisfying way, a series of bad things are happening to our protagonist faster than we can wrangle his uncooperative personality into doing something about them, and we're basically just along for the ride. I'd greatly appreciate being given the opportunity to problem-solve rather than being shuffled from one attraction to the next like a group of old people at the hands of an impatient tour guide.
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No. 106727 ID: 595d54

>>106726
What? Bad things aren't happening, not really, and the plot's just starting to warm up. We literally just now made first contact with a hive. And yeah, Koror has his own personality instead of 100% doing what suggestions say. I don't find that a downside, personally, but I can see why you would prefer it otherwise.
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No. 106728 ID: 395c02

>>106726
I'll absolutely concede tthat things are a little "guided" so far — I kind of had an "intro" segment planned in advance with certain events happening beyond Koror's control, and it's taken substantially more updates than originally planned (because the suggesters seem to be into it).

(I'm also flattered you feel Koror is well-characterized — on my end it feels like I have no idea what I'm doing writing these sometimes, in all honesty!)

To a certain extent, Koror not being good at solving certain types of problems is the point — but I would absolutely like for more problem-solving stuff to happen in the future. I hope it's not disappointing to say that I hear your complaints and I hope you'll be willing to wait a bit longer before getting too discouraged?
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No. 106749 ID: 49978d

Forgive me while I ramble a bit about how one's animal ancestors can influence a sentient species behavior.

See, belenosians are pretty obviously descended from some sort of herbivore, probably a herd animal of some description. They don't do as well eating meat as other species, and they have horns - horns and spikes are defensive developments. Horns do end up getting used for mating duels and such in many cases, but they also protect the neck from predators that like to go for it, which is particularly the case with horns that lean back like most belenosians' seem to do. You only have them if there's something above you on the food chain.

Now, the belenosians must have at some point moved away from pure plant-eating and started chowing on other animals, both because they're omnivores now and because meat eating is more likely to be able to fuel a big brain, so they would have learned to hunt a bit, though they probably much more often favored trapping as a means to collect protein - bait, hooks, nets, chasing things off cliffs, et cetera, which would encourage cleverness and invention. However, the way evolution works, a lot of the old herd animal instincts probably stayed with them. And although we've seen implications that a lot of the old instinct stuff was removed during the empire, I think that actually a lot of that stuff has still stayed with them. If they lacked other intelligences to compare with, too, they probably unwittingly copied most of their own mindset into their artificial creations. And I think those old patterns of thought would have actually been responsible for some of the worse qualities of their empire.

See, when faced with the old fight-or-flight decision that comes in response to danger or stress, a prey animal will lean more towards the fear response. The instinct is to run, to retreat, to hide and wait for the problem to leave. They'll also tend to avoid dangerous situations in the first place - why bother doing anything risky if you're a herbivore? A predator needs to do scary things to get what they want, but a vegetarian doesn't. So they would feel a general urge to keep away from situations that make them feel threatened. If the sim is accurate, the belenosian empire was plagued with injustices. An oppressive class system, gang crime, people trapped into being experimental subjects, et cetera. These aren't things that happen all at once to a society, though: they come slowly, over time, a sort of long decay, and one way things can be allowed to get so bad is through gradual, piece-by-piece surrender. A long sequence of people not making a fuss, not wanting to cause trouble, people wanting to keep away, afraid of making things worse, not being confrontational, letting little problems slide until all the little problems add up to big ones. It's something that could happen in a society where people are driven strongly by fear. Similar symptoms of fear are paranoia - another prey animal trait - leading to a need to exert rigid control, which the empire also demonstrated. Herd animals also have another survival tactic: sacrifice. When the lions or the wolves come, the herd runs and the weak die, satisfying the predators so the rest can live. Most herd animals can really be dicks to each other in terms of abandonment, even parents to their children, and we see some of that with the story of how the tribal belenosians treated Penn's predecessors. Plus how they played it probably-excessively safe for thousands of years.

By comparison, a lot of pack predators are much more protective and caring for their weak members. Neumono are pretty obviously descended from pack predators, for example, and they demonstrate their lineage as well. The predator response to stress and danger shades more to aggression, making them more likely to fight than to run away. Pack predators, especially, will trust that their companions will back them up, making them braver, as opposed to prey which, even in herds, tend to face their dangers alone if any come along. We see this, in quest and an ITQ, with Penn commenting on neumono being likely to get confrontational with each other, and the general increased tendency of neumono to make challenges when they have a problem with something, though it's not universal of course, just as the belenosians' responses aren't. On the large scale, this would result in a very tempestuous society, with a lot of fighting and arguing and day-to-day discord. But it also, in the long term, produces a society much less prone to large problems that build up out of small ones, like social injustice. A neumono will see some shit they don't like and make trouble about it, going right for the metaphorical throat, which surely exasperates aliens when they see this petty stuff causing problems, but it has its upside as well. A belenosian empire that included neumono probably wouldn't have reached the state it did.

Which is not to say the belenosian state of being is inferior. The lack of trouble over small problems would produce a society that can work on large group efforts much more quickly and efficiently, and the tendency to prefer seclusion and safety, careful observation and control, and the desire to solve problems cleverly in order to avoid personal danger is likely what gave rise to the belenosians developing the scientific method, while neumono would more preferred to have solved their problems by throwing their own bodies at it right away. A society with both species included would work better than either apart, and I'm certain all the other aliens have their own advantages and disadvantages that they can balance out for each other as well.

I just find it interesting to think of when looking at how the characters behave. Like, Penn is potentially some sort of ideal of the belenosian species, and look at how she thinks and acts. She has a tendency to be on the edge all the time, to be thinking of the worst ways the situations she's in could go, and she prefers to seclude herself. These could be the result of the influences and traumas particular to her, but they could also be something of a demon on the shoulder to the whole species.
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No. 106937 ID: db0da2
File 148282056783.png - (33.57KB , 524x617 , knightposting.png )
106937

So, for no particular reason I've begun thinking about a hypothetical medieval Asteroidverse AU. Mainly about neumono, because obviously.

In the vanilla asteroidverse space mimigas make excellent infantry because they can basically shrug off bullets, can carry big guns easily, and have great unit cohesion by default. In medieval asteroidverse however, their main advantages are significantly blunted and their weaknesses exacerbated.
First off; regeneration. It's still useful in that they can basically ignore arrows usually and they never have to worry about getting stabbed with a filthy weapon and dying of infection, but in close quarters it's a lot less useful. Tactics used against neumono would be similar to those used against knights; you stab or shoot them, drag them to the ground, and stab them with long knives a bunch of times. Neumono also tend to be a lot smaller than humans, which means less reach, which really hurts when you're trying to get past a phalanx of guys wielding 18 foot pikes (or maybe glaives or halberds would be more effective idk).
Secondly; food. This is the big one. Neumono need way more food than humans, and that food needs to be meat. It takes sixteen pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, which means that, even if you're being extremely optimistic, you can only support one neumono for every sixteen humans you could have. As far as I can tell, this means that unless you're willing to bankrupt yourself and try to defend the most ungodly supply train of all time, pre-industrial neumono armies are not an option. Neumono might still see limited use as special shock troops or in situations where you need troops in an area your normal units couldn't handle, like a swamp, a jungle, or a frigid mountain. Though, considering there's no neumono equivalent to horses, neumono cavalry might not be an option; can neumono ride horses?
Neumono do have one pretty massive advantage in a medieval setting, in that they basically come with built in radio communications. Medieval battles were hectic as fuck, radio communication is revolutionary in how it allows you to communicate orders in real time rather than just telling your forces what to do and hoping that the situation doesn't change enough for those orders to need changing. Wiser commanders might even breed small hives of neumono to act as relayers for orders.

Belenos would be weird, in that unless you include some "forgotten technological empire" junk or magic they don't really make much sense in their current state. Being bred for docility and frailness works fine when you're with your own kind or are living in a post-industrial society, but when you have to directly compete with nations of people with no such impediment you're going to have a bad time. If the Belenos empire existed in this hypothetical AU it would have to be in a very watered down state, otherwise the other species existing wouldn't really make sense. You could give them magic and have them be basically furry elves, but I'd prefer to keep this in the realm of "reality". It might be cool to have them appear in their pre-empire state, but we don't have much info on what that looked like. You could have the world of the setting be one of two habitable moons around a gas giant, with the other being the home of the recently fallen belenosian empire, making the belenos refugees into technological angels to the people of the main world. Of course, that opens up its own can of worms.

Pomi and heef are basically equivalent to humans and would probably have a number of their own civilizations.

Mikliks could fit a number of roles, but their physical weakness would probably keep them from forming proper civilizations that could compete with the other major powers. They might form nomadic tribes, and those living with other species would make excellent thieves, spies, and assassins.

A Yich Eater is a rare kind of demon which all civilized folk agree must be purged with extreme prejudice.
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No. 106940 ID: a107fd

>>106937
All beef is meat, but not all meat is beef. Chickens, pigs, and to a lesser extent goats, can thrive on land that's not otherwise suited to agriculture, so they're not competing with grain production. If neumono were operating in a mixed-species combined-arms sort of force, they'd be using all the same logistical shortcuts as dogs: table scraps, undesirable bits of the animal, hybridize hardtack and gravy into dry ration bars that contain the key nutrients but also lots of starchy calories, and of course the bodies of fallen enemies. For predictable lean times they could even try hibernation.

Belenos could be frail nerds without getting magic or anachronistic tech involved. Make 'em the architects, the bankers, the bureaucrats, the gardeners who provide silk and medicinal herbs and vivid dyes for cloth, the merchants and navigators who sail out of sight of land to return with treasures from far away, the siege engineers, the smelters with a secret formula for steel but not enough muscle to wield the resulting superior blades. Lady Eboshi's leprous gunsmiths. In short, court magicians, pointy-bearded viziers, and rear-echelon force multipliers, the best of whom spend a lot of time in various gilded cages.
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No. 106945 ID: db0da2
File 148285850415.png - (60.53KB , 480x636 , peasant please.png )
106945

>>106940
>they'd be using all the same logistical shortcuts as dogs: table scraps, undesirable bits of the animal, hybridize hardtack and gravy into dry ration bars that contain the key nutrients but also lots of starchy calories
Dogs are specifically evolved to eat human table scraps, it's how we domesticated them in the first place. Neumono bodies are explicitly stated to be very picky about their food, they need a large, regular intake of good red meat to stay healthy. I don't see any of that working well at all.

>and of course the bodies of fallen enemies.
This is a lot more promising, of course, you aren't always fresh off of a battlefield, so you'd need to eat allies as well. If you had a small contingent of neumono to act as scouts or shock troops (depending on size), you could feed them all of your dead, all of your enemies' dead, and maybe the occasional foreign villager (not too many, you still need them harvesting the land for you once you've conquered it), and they'd be basically free aside from the stuff they carry on their backs. They'd be very good at eliminating groups of archers, because they can sprint faster than the archers can retreat and can ignore the tricks used against cavalry, so they'd definitely have their uses. Then again, if they're as recently discovered as in the normal asteroidverse there might not be that many armies willing to integrate with them. You'd probably see a lot of roaming bands of neumono raiders, food isn't an issue when you can eat entire villages of people and hibernate during the winter (neumono hibernate, right?).

>In short, [belenos are,] court magicians, pointy-bearded viziers, and rear-echelon force multipliers, the best of whom spend a lot of time in various gilded cages.
I like it, but that still leaves the question of how they got that way in the first place. It could be that they evolved to be symbiotic with a worker species, similar to the salikai/arkot relationship, which eventually died off (maybe due to a plague or something?). This also leaves the option to have a fallen belenosian empire, it would just be less alien precursors and more roman empire. We could also have them be an entire species of "Clark Kent before he found out about his past"s.
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No. 106958 ID: 3abd97

>>106937
I find it interesting you're considering importing a bunch of aliens all to the same medieval planet without thinking about bringing any of their own stuff with them. Yeah, you might have a hard time feeding a large neumono population on medieval earth. But what about a medieval Astreneus V? If you leave them in their environment, or bring a chunk of their environment with them, the situation changes. (Neumono-world seems skewed more towards marco or even kaiju sized critters- bring along the native meat sources and what they eat, and you might well have better food production capacity than an equivalent earth based society).

Plus then you get the interesting complications of a medieval society dealing with a different environment and set of variables than we did on earth.

>Neumono also tend to be a lot smaller than humans, which means less reach, which really hurts when you're trying to get past a phalanx of guys wielding 18 foot pikes
Let's not pretend humans are the only people who can be given equipment, or that it's not possible for smart engineers to design equipment to exploit the different strengths of different races, or for smart commanders to assign troops of different size where they'll have better effect.

>Pomi and heef are basically equivalent to humans
I feel this is fundamentally wrong on the scale of "specific equipment and battlefield roles" level analysis you applied to humans v neumono.

>Mikliks could fit a number of roles, but their physical weakness would probably keep them from forming proper civilizations
Physical stature really isn't an impediment on the civilization scale, especially when you consider the immediate needs of a group of plant people are very different than those of pretty much any race. Different (or lesser) resource requirements mean they could survive in territory that's not even appealing to other factions. Plus they have the advantages of wide ability sets via mutations (easier to get specialists very suited for a given task), and slower regeneration without anywhere near the costs neumono pay.

If we're even assuming the factions are drawn on racial lines, which doesn't really reflect asteroid, or the way you were earlier thinking of mixing and matching races to different roles in armies.

>neumono hibernate, right?
Nope. Well, sorta, but that's a defense mechanism to prevent you moving around and damaging yourself further before regen can fix it when you get a stomach rupture. But not a seasonal hibernation, no.

>I like it, but that still leaves the question of how they got that way in the first place.
If you're literally creating a mash up setting where you've dumped people from different worlds in one place, you don't get to complain it doesn't make sense to have them together.

Either we assume this is a world in the Asteroidverse where a bunch of people got cut off and stranded (lots of alien castaways who forgot their origins and built a new world) or you make up a world where every continent had a wildly different evolutionary history and biosphere that just happens to line up with the different planets and races in Asteroid Quest.
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No. 106963 ID: 3b108e

>>106958
>(Neumono-world seems skewed more towards marco or even kaiju sized critters- bring along the native meat sources and what they eat, and you might well have better food production capacity than an equivalent earth based society).

That isn't relevant. Big animals don't magic their meat out of nowhere. Size isn't the problem, efficiency is. Unless they take less than sixteen pounds of grain to make one pound of meat, kanelel's problem remains. Whether it's a big animal or a small one, making enough meat to feed a neumono uses enough grain to feed a lot more non-neumono.
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No. 106964 ID: 3abd97

>>106963
Yeah, that's why you don't just bring the big animal- you bring what they eat, all the way down the chain.

As a whole, the food chain as a whole needs to be more efficient in order to sustain that kind of scale up across the board.
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No. 106966 ID: db0da2

>>106958
>I find it interesting you're considering importing a bunch of aliens all to the same medieval planet without thinking about bringing any of their own stuff with them.
I've been doing that because I don't really know which direction I want to go with that, so I played it safe and assumed earth-like conditions. We could have the entire world be hellmurder-planet, but that fundamentally changes the dynamic in a way that isn't necessarily desirable. If we go to the opposite extreme and have the world be not!Earth then everyone is happy except for neumono, who are now totally maladapted for their environment. We could have different parts each look like the home planets for the various species, but that wouldn't really make sense because of oxygen levels and other things (though we could just do it anyway). I'm leaning towards having a few monster infested jungle and redgrass areas (maybe relegated to their own continent), while the rest of the world only has megafauna occasionally.

>Let's not pretend humans are the only people who can be given equipment, or that it's not possible for smart engineers to design equipment to exploit the different strengths of different races, or for smart commanders to assign troops of different size where they'll have better effect.
I wasn't pretending that. I was just pointing out how, while it doesn't really matter once all fighting starts being done using guns and bombs, the length of your arms is a significant factor in a medieval context.

>I feel this is fundamentally wrong on the scale of "specific equipment and battlefield roles" level analysis you applied to humans v neumono.
Good, because I was working on a civilization scale. Sorry for not clarifying. Pomi, humans, and heef are similar enough that, even when competing with each other, it can be assumed they'd all have their own kingdoms, empires, and dynasties.

>If we're even assuming the factions are drawn on racial lines
I'm assuming that some countries will be more integrated than others, and am trying to determine which species will be able to have countries ruled and populated mostly by their own kind. In my assessment mikliks didn't make the cut, but I'll openly admit that my memory of what we know about mikliks is quite hazy, and that my analysis in that case was probably flawed.

>or you make up a world where every continent had a wildly different evolutionary history and biosphere that just happens to line up with the different planets and races in Asteroid Quest.
I'm totally okay with doing that, especially considering something similar was already done on Astreneus V, it's the main fantastical conceit of this AU. Unlike all the other races, belenos have been genetically modified for docility and physical weakness, so you can't have them appear in their AsteroidQuest form without the Belenosian Empire unless you offer some other explanation. I'm not complaining that it doesn't make sense to have belenos and humans together, I'm saying I don't want to include the fully fledged Belenosian Empire in the setting because that would have far-reaching consequences that I don't really want to deal with.

If this is getting too off-topic you can step in any time you like, Lago.
>>
No. 106970 ID: 395c02

>>106966
>We could have the entire world be hellmurder-planet, but that fundamentally changes the dynamic in a way that isn't necessarily desirable.
Okay but now I have this mental image of, like, a medieval-ish society or societies carved out of what is otherwise hellmurder planet, with neumono occupying an odd middle ground between civilization and the untamed wilds or whatever, and to be honest the idea is kind of attractive.

Totally the wrong person to do anything with it though.
>>
No. 106971 ID: 3abd97

>>106966
Yeah, on the civilization scale, Humans / Pomi / Heef would be pretty much competing for the same resources, that's fair.

Although as far as the specifics of those civilizations, pre-contact Heef were somewhat bloodthirsty religious types. Like, Aztec style institutionalized sacrifices to appease the goods. Could be one potential source of conflict.

>belenos have been genetically modified for docility and physical weakness
I actually don't think that's wholly correct. Like, I'm pretty sure the genetic modifications made modern belenos sturdier than they naturally evolved to be. Even if you just mean they're not optimized for gross physical strength, they still have a lot of little improvements in other areas. And boring stuff like "less prone to birth defects" or "less susceptible to disease or illness" might not make a big difference on a battlefield, but on average, in a preindustrial world where there's no modern medicine to pick up the slack? A little gene optimizing could lead to better population growth rates, a better economy, etc. (The elf comparison isn't the worst one, really. The smart if fragile types who are less susceptible to a lot of things. Plus anything goat-based would have similar bonuses to balance checks).
>>
No. 106972 ID: db0da2

>>106970
Meh, aside from the neumono bit, that's kinda already been done. See; Attack on Titan, Mouse Guard, that one monstergirl vore setting I can't remember the name of, etc.
>>
No. 106973 ID: db0da2

>>106971
>I'm pretty sure the genetic modifications made modern belenos sturdier than they naturally evolved to be.
IIRC it made them weaker and less confrontational by default, but they take better to steroids and implants.
>>
No. 106974 ID: 395c02

>>106972
Not really what I had in mind (Mouse Guard is maybe kind of close), but also what I had in mind isn't what you're trying to discuss here anyway, so.

Actually, maybe it'd be more interesting to skip a few centuries and recast it as an Age of Discovery type thing, with the Astreneus-V-ish continents as a New World to a mishmash-of-the-other-homeworlds Old World... which is even more not the idea you were talking about. Anyway.
>>
No. 106976 ID: db0da2

>>106974
>with the Astreneus-V-ish continents as a New World to a mishmash-of-the-other-homeworlds Old World
I'm actually thinking of something kinda like this. We just need to have the caravel be invented a few hundred years early, which as far as I can tell is totally plausible. Colonialism probably wouldn't take hold as strongly as it did with our new world, because while surviving the American winter is hard, surviving any time of year on Astreneus-V is harder. But there'd be enough over a long enough period of time for neumono (and arkots and voklit and whatever else colonists might see as useful or exotic) to spread to the old world. This could coincide a big warhive or two invading from one of the poles, further increasing the presence of neumono in the old world.
>>
No. 107332 ID: 595d54

I made a google doc to track our progress with the pygmies' language, after a bunch of speculation in IRC. Feel free to leave comments with your thoughts on whatever.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cjr2rTrGleji3JfZ___WAYTd8NixxCFHLelUZYhaZoA/edit?usp=sharing
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No. 107731 ID: 15a025
File 148446337683.png - (6.92KB , 244x280 , sexy time.png )
107731

>>
No. 107793 ID: 929ca6

I think Haydi's made her chest bigger than it used to be. I guess that time Radmin said he liked boobs had an effect?
>>
No. 107870 ID: dce082

Can neumos transfer from one hive to another?
>>
No. 107872 ID: 493b5f

>>107870

To my recollection: Yes for children, only theoretically yes for adults, and it's not something that a neumono adult could ever deliberately accomplish by choice or effort. You would just have to happen to find a hive that coincidentally matches you well enough that you can join, which is a ludicrously rare thing to happen. And it wouldn't be transferring from one hive to another, it would be leaving the first hive, then years of search and desperation and loneliness, then finding another hive to join (if you're really, really lucky).

You can have a predator literally change your mind to fit another hive, but so far there's only one of them you can ask for that, and he's still a secret. If he wasn't secret the waiting list would be millions long.
>>
No. 107877 ID: 3abd97

>>107870
>>107872
A big factor is also the traumatic emotional scarring going rogue leaves you with. You basically make a mess in your own head that you have to clean up / deal with before you have a reasonable shot of even getting close to another hive to even potentially link up. Part of the reason rogues are so disliked is that shit makes their empathy actively uncomfortable / unpleasant to be around. You're damaged goods!

This means people who were born outside a hive have better odds merging into one later, cause that hurdle isn't there. Children of rogues don't have the same baggage their parents do.

(Although not all hive-bound neumono bother to draw a distinction between "rogue" and "never had a hive").
>>
No. 108227 ID: 76b09c

I have an idea for the UnSe crew's security, but we're not currently playing with a character who'd be the person to tell about it. I'm just going to write it down here for later.

Basically, I was thinking about how the Glitchers contain ring shell material inside a stage string shell. There doesn't seem to have been any indication that material is externally accessible, hence the big deal it took to eject Glitcher, and that just being in the external ring shell has never been said to give any ability to touch Mittens or the Glitchkids. So: ring shell material contained in a string shell isn't accessible from the main ring shell.

So what if, right, we made a HUGE string shell, and put like 90% or more of the ring shell into it, including the portion that contains/runs the contest stages. Leave the minimum remainder outside, running the big string shell. Then, any ring shell-native entities that come in from outside have very little to play with or run off, and would need to pass through the string shell to reach the rest of the systems. Kind of like a reverse of the ring shell's original function. You could even make the big string shell navigable by contest stages, to give any interloper coming in a taste of what the contestants went through. Maybe even work in tests of friendship or whatlike, pop quizzes on the lives of the contestants, things to build sympathy. Maybe include tricks and traps for if they try cheat their way through by string manipulation.

Basically, you'd have the contest multiverse in the center, then the ring shell around it, then a contest shell around that, then a minimal amount of ring shell after that again. That should make it difficult for any AI or other invader who hasn't experience of both the ring shell and contest systems to get in.
>>
No. 109753 ID: 65ec8d

Bit late for it but I would have liked to ask Glitcher what exactly the difference is between him emulating his old emotional response-memories and "really" having them. They're all AIs, so technically everything about them is an emulation. If it's just the fact that he would be able to turn them off again, that's just an ability that he can hack, the contest itself was able to do it for people after the suicide round.
>>
No. 109883 ID: 398fe1

Lately it's felt like this quest, and all Lagotrope quests, have been getting bogged down by endless sidequests. The main plotlines have barely progressed at all.
>>
No. 109885 ID: bfb318

>>109883
I'd like to ask more detail about this, since there's a lot of ways this could be interpreted.

With the exception of UnSe anyway, which is in clear side-quest mode with the main story on pause. I'd defend that since this is most likely going to be the last chance to reasonably do so before UnSe finishes entirely.
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No. 109887 ID: 3abd97

One could argue that the freedom to live their lives, do things with each other, and follow frivolous side-quest pursuits instead of functioning in constant survival mode is exactly what almost everyone in UnSe has been fighting for since things started.
>>
No. 109890 ID: 398fe1

>>109885
Well I mean we could've skipped straight to the cage match after deciding on the cage match, instead of going through all the little details about it. Maybe it's not that there's all these side stories, it's that they're all told in so much detail it's really slowed down the pacing.

Let me draw a comparison to the original Fen Quest-- Fen got thrown in the arena within the first fifteen updates. The reboot is four threads in and we haven't even gotten into the real army to get the combat experience Fen wanted before the arena. Fen has done a lot of stuff in the meantime, and some of it was pretty important, but it seems like it took a lot more time than it could have. Cleaning up Cheese's mess took ages and ages.
>>
No. 109891 ID: 9bf80c

>>109890

The original Fen Quest was itself a side story, though, so it got sped up and a lot of details skipped over. This time, Fen and his journey to becoming whatever he's going to become, and the world it happens in, are being focused on more, so of course there's time spent on those things. This time spent building up will pay off later in a lot of ways, I think, such as by building up a cast of secondary characters and showing how Fen's actions ripple outwards to change the world he's in.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like it this way.
>>
No. 109893 ID: 3abd97

Yeah, old Fen Quest was basically a series of boss battles with little scraps of plot in between. New Fen Quest is a lot slower paced, and a lot more political in nature. Interactions and relationships with people and factions matter a lot more, things we do in small time provinces build to larger long term consequences, and we don't have a rage god I-win button to mash. Even the magic system fits this thematically- it's a low magic setting where spells are subtle, or environmental or long term, where before it was a high magic setting with flashy offensive casting and divinely empowered super warriors.

I wouldn't think it's fair to call Cheese's arc a side quest? The mess in Fence, the allies and enemies we made, the noble politics we stirred up all created opportunities that are going to shape how things move forward. It's all gonna factor into Fen's own attempt to seize power, become a noble, and make some kind of play.

It also served two important purposes: hammering in just how bad things in the empire can get, and giving us time to learn a good deal more about the setting.

One payoff I'm looking forward to after that arc: Cheese was basically in non-stop survival mode, dealing with one disaster pilling on top of another, desperately spinning things to stay alive and keep some kind of advantage. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when she isn't constantly on the back foot, and has time to prepare and set things up.

What we're doing right now in the military also seems like investments for future stuff. Army grunt days seems a good chance to try and find competent people we can trust and fight besides, who we might later recruit to work for us (and we already have two possible candidates). If Fen's gonna be a noble, he's gonna need lieutenants he can trust, eventually.
>>
No. 109899 ID: bfb318

>>109890
It is true that the current Fen quest is slower paced, the reasons being well covered by the two posts prior.

It got more in depth, too, when the objectives got expanded to not just get nobility, but for Fen to be create a stable base so that he can reasonably hold onto said nobility.

Still, a fair point about UnSe - it is essentially the last thread where this sort of stuff will be covered, so I don't care to rush it too strongly (but still want to keep it going enough that I will, say, keep the Sevener-clone segment short and brief with all this in mind.) Mind that I'm not saying that as defense of the pacing, but just the reasoning behind it. Pacing isn't a strong point of mine, and UnSe is known to be the worst offender.
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No. 110391 ID: a363ac
File 149135683484.png - (90.08KB , 864x888 , PbUQytg.png )
110391

http://imgur.com/a/SVUEi Link to Mega Katzati and not so Mega Polo
>>
No. 110393 ID: 51649e

>>110391

Obviously, the petite variant of the Mega Milk shirt would be Mini Milk.
>>
No. 110397 ID: 7e96bb

>>110393
gigamilk
megamilk
kilomilk
millimilk
micromilk
nanomilk
>>
No. 110448 ID: 595d54

I spent way more than a reasonable amount of effort on this and I'm not letting it die in IRC logs. Someone decided that Katzati was 1 megamilk and asked what that would make Polo, and I decided to find out.

After some discussion, it was decided that a logarithmic scale should be established, based on powers of two. Polo is the lower end of the scale since we're fairly sure she represents the smallest breasts Lago can reasonably be convinced to draw on a female neumono. Quirill is the maximum on the scale because she holds the record.

Polo is 1 Polo, so she's 0 since 2^0=1.
Quirill is a bunch of times bigger than Polo and she looked like her tits were about a hundred times larger so I decided she was a 7 for convenience, since 2^7 = 128 and that's close enough.
Measuring in powers of two, Katzati looks to be between a quarter as big and half as big as Quirill, so I put her down as 5.5.

Katzati was defined as one megamilk, which should be 1,000,000 milks, and since Polo is 2^5.5 times smaller than Katzati according to our scale, we divide 1,000,000 by 2^5.5 to find that Polo is roughly 22,000 milks, or 22 kilomilks. Quirill is 2^1.5 times bigger than Katzati, so she turns out to be about three megamilks.

TL;DR:
Katzati is 1 megamilk by definition and a 5.5 on the new titty measuring scale.
Polo is 22 kilomilks and a 0 on the scale by definition.
Quirill is 3 megamilks and a 7 on the scale, also by definition.

I hope this was worth reading for enough people to justify like 30 minutes of research and calculation.
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No. 110450 ID: 595d54

>>110448
Oh yeah, and as far as I can tell, Katzati is 48K and Polo is 22A, B if you want to be generous. I don't have a clear enough reference of Quirill to figure out her exact band or cup size but she's massive anyway.
>>
No. 110454 ID: 91ee5f

>>110448
>>110450
I always thought I had too much free time on my hands. But now you've proven me wrong.

Other than that, this is some solid calculating!
>>
No. 110895 ID: 91ee5f

I recently watched Moana and during the whole movie, I couldn't stop thinking, "This looks like something a hive of tribal neumono would do."

Does anyone else feel that way or is it just me?
>>
No. 111157 ID: c8b031

>>110448

My esteemed scholar, I hate to find flaw with your work, but your estimation that Polo possesses the smallest breasts is in error. The least breasted adult neumono female who has appeared in-quest is Kork, who is a warhiver of Rokoa's hive who appeared in the first Asteroid Quest Intermission (aka Polo Quest).

The precise size fluctuates a little in the art (especially in the pornoverse comic version of those events), but what I gather the difference between her and Polo is is that while Polo is small chested they are still generally visibly there, while Kork's are small enough to often appear totally flat while she's clothed.

It may perhaps be less a matter of mass and more one of perkiness. It may also depend on how proportion to the rest of the body factors into the equation.
>>
No. 111159 ID: 3abd97

>>111157
The reason Kork wasn't used as the baseline / origin is that she breaks a log scale. If she's truly flat, her breasts are a zero, so you can't multiply zero by anything to get bigger numbers.

(And if she's not truly flat, we don't have a known value to use as a fixed reference).
>>
No. 111161 ID: c8b031

>>111159

Then perhaps that kind of scale shouldn't be used! You're using a system that can't account for 0 and applying it to measure a quantity where 0 is a real functional possibility. Logarithmic scales are generally used for things where true 0 is not something you're going to really deal with, like the brightness of stars or the loudness of sound, something that by definition needs a positive value for it to conceptually exist at all. Breasts, in the other hand, are something that conceptually exist in potentia even without a positive value. You need to be able to start with nothing!
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No. 111163 ID: 3abd97

>>111161
In the same manner that a non-light emitting star can be considered a non-star, and a sound of zero amplitude is considered a non-sound, a breast of zero volume can be considered a non-breast. None of those scales are appropriate for describing an absence of the magnitude of the thing they're meant to measure.
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No. 111164 ID: c8b031

>>111163
>a breast of zero volume can be considered a non-breast.

Ah, but can it? Breasts are unusual. Consider: we are using mathematics as a tool to describe reality, yes? Or, rather, we are using it as a tool to describe and aid us in how we think about reality, because true reality is as ever inaccessible. In order to help us process how we perceive and interact with breasts, we need a form of mathematics that accounts for how perceive and interact with breasts. If it did not, it might function in and of itself, but it would be of no practical help to us, yes?

And the thing about breasts is, flat breasts are still breasts, in mammals at least. Biologically, they could be induced to get larger by weight gain or by activation for their childrearing purposes. They also exist in erotic mental space as an erogenous zone. You can have larger breasts and smaller breasts and no breasts but no breasts are actually, in many ways, still in existence as breasts. The only place to find non-breasts are on non-chests (or non-mammalian breasts), but if you're dealing with a mammalian chest then you're dealing with breasts, even when the breasts are zero volume. So a non-breast is NOT the same as a zero volume breast; a non-breast is null and a flat chest is 0, which are not quite the same thing.

Then, if we take it that flat breasts are still breasts in many ways, then breasts are a quantity where, in a sense, 0 = 1. This defies normal mathematics, of course. Perhaps we need new mathematics.

Mastiamathics.
>>
No. 111165 ID: 3abd97

>>111164
Consider the counter argument:

Your philosophical faffing about in too many words is still less entertaining (and less mathematical) than applying a log scale to breasts.

If you wanna talk Mastiamathics you need to put your money where your mouth is and apply some math to some masts.
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No. 111221 ID: b412df

Given the range of volume being used a linear system might be better. However a system doesn't need to be perfect, just accurate enough to be used for one's purposes, in this case comparing boobs. In some fields approximations are often made when they do not overly impact the end result for the sake of making the maths less complex.

On that note, now that we have boob maths, can we extend that to boob science and boob engineering?
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No. 111588 ID: 03f010

I recently re-read AQ thread 5, and now I think it's by choice that Mimi doesn't use autocorrect: She's probably paranoid about it, fearing it may correct to the wrong word (e.g. "defiantly") or worse, memorize something compromising and later correct to it.
>>
No. 111598 ID: f08985

>>111221
Hoenstly, I picked a logarithmic system because with the examples I had for a baseline it was easier to eyeball powers of two than figure out exactly how many times bigger Quirill's tits are than Polo's. As for boob engineering, I think I did a bit of that in the IRC when I figured out exactly how large a gun Katzati could hold in her cleavage. Turns out a folding SMG could fit if it were collapsed and stored diagonally. Ammunition might be limited and the imprint might be obvious, though, but I think Lago confirmed that her breasts were actually somewhat larger than I had initially assumed so that should help. Boob science is a bit general, you'll need to narrow down the field before I can do much with it. Although I remember one ITQ saying that big tits did give a marginal benefit in more surface area to bond with bioarmor. Not necessarily worth whatever trouble you might have hauling them around, but there you go.
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No. 111599 ID: f08985

>>111157
Crap, missed this earlier. Yeah she came up too but there were a few problems with that. Kork is so flat that I couldn't actually measure what she had under her clothes, and according to my source she was drawn with larger breasts than she actually had when she showed up in porn. Also, while her boobs are proportionally smaller, she's also significantly larger than Polo so the actual volume should be roughly equal.
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No. 111763 ID: 91ee5f

Well, that was fun! We got to run a gang, got backstabbed, pissed off the wrestling community, caused city wide anarchy which could've been genocide if anyone could actually die, and then gave Severner some thing to do so that she'd stop complaining about not having anything to administrate!

I think that should last Chief for a while before he gets bored again!
>>
No. 111792 ID: bfb318

In a bout of indecision, I'm leaving it up to a poll as to which thread will happen next. All primary quests will happen eventually, but this is largely to gauge proportions of interest across these quests.

https://goo.gl/forms/9LDXHcPV55sL9v4Z2
>>
No. 111810 ID: db0da2

>>111792
Three Stripes thread! :y
>>
No. 111811 ID: bfb318

>>111810
Three Stripes is going to get his own thread after Polo, regardless.
>>
No. 111821 ID: f08985

>>111811
>Lago confirms we will never have a Three Stripes thread
RIP
>>
No. 111853 ID: c0f910

Be neat to see humans interacting more with Nuemonos. Also be interesting to see predators interact with humans.
>>
No. 111854 ID: bfb318

>>111853
Someday. Obviously not this poll, and probably not for the foreseeable future, but humans making contact and uplifting some aliens has been an idea for a long time ago.

That being said I forgot to add in a 3rd question to the poll, of fill in the blank with one's own idea, so if people have ideas they'd like to see, they can throw it here and it may show up in a poll down the road.
>>
No. 111855 ID: 3ce125

It occurs to me that if Predators can't be let onto the streets because they're dangerous to Neumono, they'd be absolutely fine in a town without Neumono in it!
>>
No. 111857 ID: ddd967

>>111854

Most of the ideas I can think of would be things that probably have spoilers, like a thread from Whiskers' perspective.

Perhaps revisit a side character and give them protagonist role for something? Someone like Miss or Rikek. Or, from ideas I remember being tossed around on the chat once, maybe a quest controlling a neumono hive? Like, we track a fresh hive from the moment they form from a pack of street rogues or something, and guide them as they find a place for themselves in the already densely-packed ultrahive environment.

Or for something that might be more of a downer but interesting, maybe the story from the belenosian postapocalypse, like maybe following some noble who stuck themselves in some kind of stasis for few hundred or thousand years, emerges and has to try survive, hide and leave some sort of legacy (positive or negative).
>>
No. 111859 ID: db0da2

I just want to see one of those cheesy "city slicker and country boy swap places" stories but with a jammer and tribal neumono.
>>
No. 111861 ID: 91ee5f

>>111857
>a quest controlling a neumono hive? Like, we track a fresh hive from the moment they form from a pack of street rogues or something, and guide them as they find a place for themselves in the already densely-packed ultrahive environment.
I had a similar thought. Only I was thinking maybe we could do a newly uplifted tribal hive and we're helping them adjust to living in an ultrahive city.
>>
No. 112895 ID: 91ee5f

I think I know what's going on with Likol!

This might be the results of predator conditioning! Like what happened on the farm that Arza and Penn went to in an earlier thread!

So maybe everything that Likol is experiencing is some sorta failsafe that kicks in if he strays too far from his hive for too long and it's like some sorta compelling desire to go back to his hive!

At least, that's what I think. What does everyone else think?
>>
No. 112907 ID: 7fad5d

>>112895
I think we're too far back in time for that to be a thing to the extent of what Likol's experiencing. The farm Penn visited was a relatively recent development with Four Stripes, from what I remember. So even if they did have predators, I'm not confident that they managed to get predators to program neumono to such sophisticated lengths as Likol's current situation.
>>
No. 113001 ID: 91ee5f

What if what's happening to Likol is like what happened in the movie Inception? He's in a dream within a dream within a dream and so on?

Every time he's "awake" he's actually asleep and when he falls asleep again, he's just going deeper into another dream! In fact, he might already be on that airship where Polo and Rokoa eventually find him! Because if he's been kept in a dream, then he wouldn't be able to tell how much time has passed in the real world. So by the time Likol finally wakes up, it'll be time for him to go suicide bomb the salikai to stop them from launching nukes and save Polo and Rokoa!

What does everyone else think?
>>
No. 113002 ID: 9e9eae

>>113001

Seems a bit convoluted.
>>
No. 113003 ID: 486e87

I'm seeing similarities w/ what Polo experienced when she got brain darted. Likol has another consciousness in his head who can access his memories while Likol is awake, but Quokko appears to be friendly here, and it looks like she's trying to reinforce and spot alterations in Likol's memories. So I think there's something else going on, something that doesn't match any other mind control we've encountered.
>>
No. 113619 ID: 5b93d3

Not sure how intentional it is, but the 'Hive Reconstruction' images visually resemble the constructed images generated from recordings of brain activity in humans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FsH7RK1S2E

If the reconstructions were trained with images of Likol's hive (being the only Neumono Vanski had direct access to survive over a long period to gather training data) then the imperfectly reconstructed imagery would end up featuring a random mix of hive neumono that are a 'close enough' fit to the mental imagery, based more on pose and expression than on actual individual identity.
>>
No. 113620 ID: 5b93d3

>>113619
tl;dr version: the HR35 series images could be of actual memories, but not showing the correct neumono involved in them.
>>
No. 113714 ID: 3abd97

>>/quest/816850
>Assuming we're really in 131 AW.
It's not an unreasonable assumption. Likol is out in the real world now, and has access to the internet, stores, and messed with a gps system. Plenty of opportunities to notice if the year he thought it was is wrong.

Granted, it's possible this is a dream / hallucination / simulation, etc, and Likol's not in the real world currently, in which case we can't trust anything Likol has seen anyways, rendering the question moot.

>>/quest/816928
>Not to be overly negative because i think some of this has substance, but ... doesn't Likol commit suicide to take out the command center of the war hive's warship?
>Which also happens to coincide with a massive military invasion of the spires? It has been a while, so I could be wrong.

That's correct. Near the end of Polo's visit to the spire (aka the AsteroidQuest Intermission) the Warhive attacks the Spire OPA facility / Vanski's base. Polo manages to get onto the warship and kill the Red Queen. Likol is captured as a POW by the warhive, only to escape custody during the hallucination gas attack. Ultimately Likol commits suicide blowing up the salikai team that was attempting to use a CAI node to hack the main control room and take control of the warhive's nukes. Vanski is forced to evacuate the spire and abandon his base there (which is when Korli escapes). The ultrahive moves in, politely kicks the warhive off planet after letting them fix some damage to the ship, announces Polo was killed (she wasn't) and takes in the few other science hivers the warhiver had taken as POWs during the spire battle.

That's all in 135 AW. Penn's Quest takes place a few months after that, when the public still thinks Polo is dead (they talked about it at the zoo).

Polo Quest also happens a few months after the end of the Intermission, where Polo comes looking for Vanski's new base. (Unfortunately, we don't know how big the time separation between Polo and Penn's perspective is. So we don't know if Penn has hours, days, weeks or months before her undercover work is interrupted by Polo trying to blow things up).

Nothing in that sequence of events contradicts two science hivers disappearing in mysterious from their hive before Likol's thread in 131 AW, and showing up later brainwashed in Penn's thread in 135 AW. We don't know what year they leave the science hive, or when they first reach the farm, or what happens to them in between.
>>
No. 119469 ID: 33d4be

Arise, thread, that we may engage in long-term and short-term benefit/risk analysis regarding our planned route towards committing a high-level political assassination... in a non-canonical erotic patreon quest.

So that we don't clutter up the main thread.

I think the best route is to tell Fern we're technically a noble, and other mostly true things, for reasons I've already spent a lot of words describing in the quest thread. What say you, fellow suggesters?
>>
No. 119470 ID: 3abd97

>>119469
At this point I sort of expect lago's going to have Fern say something in the next update that renders the argument moot or is going to have Alison and co disagree over the question and ask for a confirmation vote. Or the social scanner will chime in and tell us more about how Fern is approaching this.

In any event, my fear stems from that mission way back when we went after Baron of Threes for the first time, with Fern and co providing backup. Remember we found out Bo3 was carrying an A-rank module, which was a hell of a lot more heat than we were expecting?

In the first draft of the update that followed, Unity told Fern about the A-rank module over the phone, and he bailed on us. (And then it got quickly retconned away when some people pointed out that wasn't consistent with what had been suggested).

Obviously, we're proved our value to Fern a lot since then, but an actual noble is also a lot more serious a risk than a single module.
>>
No. 119472 ID: 33d4be

>>119470

Back then was literally the night he first met us, when all we had done to show our stuff was have sex with him, get some robots drunk, and seduce a guy through a collectible card game. Fern knows us more and is more attached to us now.

More importantly, Fern now already knows that we're a really special jetal with a very rare and overpowered ability, and even more importantly he knows we know other people we could work for. The Dead Batteries, who he's in a state of slightly wary neutrality towards (which will become a lot more wary if he knows/suspects we're at their disposal) and the weapon guys, who he does not like. He has also made a committed deal with those weapon guys to which we are entirely critical - if he cuts us off he has some explaining to do to some guys with very, very big weapons. He can't get rid of us now without getting in a lot of trouble and losing out on a really valuable asset, one which will become more valuable (and, I think, only a little more dangerous) when he finds out she's a noble.

He can't sell us out, either, because he'd have no idea who to sell us to. I doubt there's an open call for lost nobles (nobles would not be fans of it) and any interest Sapphire would have in it is something kept very, very secret.
>>
No. 119473 ID: 3abd97

>he knows we know other people we could work for
I mean there's a fairly simple way to resolve that.

If Fern decides we're a hot potato that's just going to end up burning whoever is holding us? Then whatever short term gain we bring to his rivals will be overshadowed when the heat comes down. Still a net gain from his perspective.

If Fern decides we're a hot potato and he decides he can't afford the gain we could bring anyone else? Then he has us killed. That's what you do with an asset too dangerous to keep or fire.


What it comes down to is it's really not too late for Fern to cut bridges if we scare him bad enough to do so, even if it would cost him. Whether he would at this point comes down to the balance of how much he values us versus how much risk we pose, and I maintain you are seriously underestimating the latter.
>>
No. 119475 ID: 33d4be

>>119473

Well, all I can say to that is I think you're seriously overestimating it! Being a forgotten noble is hardly a threat to anyone by itself. We don't have any power or position and there isn't anything to indicate anyone's after us except a vague suspicion that we were hidden away for a reason that we can't be sure of and which is now decades old. The only reason even Sapphire would have to be after us now is the possibility that we know something incriminating, and we've made a very convincing case to Fern that we really are an inexperienced jetal who woke up with no memories a few days ago.

Being a multi-AI jetal, on the other hand, is DEFINITELY very illegal and dangerous and would bring down super serious heat if it got out, from how it's been described, and Fern seems to be positively thrilled about it, as well as he seems capable of showing! Even though we're much more likely to let that information about us slip out, just by being too good, compared to how likely we are to be loose with the information we're a noble.

Why worry about what he'd think about us being a noble when he already knows something worse that he seems fine with?
>>
No. 119656 ID: 4ceb21

I assume this is the correct place to discuss The Rogue.

I am 100% digging it. I've been hoping for a look at the setting from a more normal perspective, and this manages to scratch that itch while still having natural conflict. A fresh rogue makes a great perspective character, because the audience gets to learn the ins and outs of rogue life along with her, while also struggling against poverty and depression. I assume some greater plot will eventually appear once Mac gets more situated (maybe involving whatever Kark's up to?), but I could also see a straight rags to riches plot working; it would be a good way to show off the different levels of society. I like the audacity of Kark being directly named after the person he's an expy of only with the last two letters missing.
>>
No. 119798 ID: d36af7

I gotta say, "fufa" is the cutest-sounding word I'm aware of for creatures of that type, by far.

Foofa.

Foooo-phaaah.

It sounds more like some sort of ritzy bathing accessory, or overstuffed furniture, or the onomatopoeia of somebody operating a tiny hand-power air pump, rather than an espionage-grade shoggoth.
>>
No. 119802 ID: 3ce125

>>119798
They're really bad at espionage, usually. They're not good at acting natural and have obvious tells like not bleeding and not having bones.

What they ARE good at is memory extraction and hunter-killer missions (provided nobody has a flamethrower)
>>
No. 119841 ID: d36af7

>>119802
They're not all that bad at espionage against anyone who doesn't have x-ray goggles, and isn't paranoid enough to demand blood tests from random acquaintances. Postmortem interrogation and the ability to reliably smuggle torso-sized items past an eyeball search are abilities many IRL intelligence agencies would pay dearly for.

Regardless, a trained fufa is far better at spy stuff than the kind of shoggoth who just charges straight at you chanting "tekeli-li, tekeli-li."
>>
No. 119933 ID: 91ee5f

You know, I can’t help but get this feeling that we’ve met Okei before. And if I didn’t know any better, I’d think she was Knife Rokoa: >>/questarch/560660 ! It sorta makes sense in my head, considering that Knife Rokoa was more than willing to help Polo and I wouldn’t be surprised if a tiny part of Okei wanted revenge for Likol’s death.

And if I’m right, then I’d like to know how the fuck Okei got caught and turned into Knife Rokoa?! I really hope I’m wrong, she deserves better than being turned into a Rokoa Clone.
>>
No. 119938 ID: 2efe4b

>>119933

I dearly hope Okei gets away unscathed, but if she did somehow end up Rokoafied, I'd place the bet on the as-yet-unseen Rokoa clone who we've heard has been able to fully override the bugs' control. Not for any logical reason, Okei doesn't seem like she has any special willpower or anything that would explain that clone's special resistance, but because it seems more dramatic. Myself, I think with her own secret network of AIs and her brush with secret conspiracy mysteries to motivate her, she might end up in some sort of secret service. Or at least become a cop or something.

There's still the possibility of a last-minute horrible twist, though. Likol's thread isn't over yet.
>>
No. 120051 ID: 6c2cf5

I hope there’s some way we can alert okei of likol’s death and let her know that is actually him on the news as “nameless suicide bomber”.
>>
No. 120054 ID: 90f3c0

>>120051
Arza was surprised when Penn hadn't heard about Likol's death, so his identity must have been widely reported.
>>
No. 120096 ID: 9e8b20

I'm not crying, you're crying. ;_;
>>
No. 120097 ID: 91ee5f

>>120096
No, I’m not!

Someone just left a bowl of onions here! ;_;
>>
No. 120494 ID: 6d9f54

Is Unnatural Selection over?! Aw man, it's a shame I wasn't able to follow the finale in real time. I felt the ending reveals were a little rushed, but the final sequence was absolutely perfect and made me cry so bad. ;_; I hope we get to see more of the AIs in Polo Quest!

This was a really incredible story, Lagotrope. It was such a hopeful, uplifting, compassionate story and I'm amazed by how dedicated the readership was to saving everyone. Thank you so much!
>>
No. 120496 ID: bfb318

>>120494
UnSe is close to but not actually done yet. Since there's still some stuff that should be addressed/wrapped up, there will be one more UnSe thread.
>>
No. 120682 ID: 91ee5f

Another holiday special has come and gone.

But I’m just wondering if we’re going to make it some kinda tradition to take an entire year every time Lagotrope makes a quest involving a holiday?
>>
No. 120683 ID: bfb318

Hopefully not. Any future holiday threads will have effort put into short run times.
>>
No. 121044 ID: 300f7e

Are vernauts still a thing?
>>
No. 121048 ID: d2e2ce

They're as much of a thing as they ever were- very rare, thought nearly extinct, and confined to one planet.
>>
No. 121338 ID: c59ec7

I have to confess I'm a bit confused about the state of the world in The Rogue. From Raox's posts in ITQ, I got the impression that there were real programs and public works in place to help rogues, but the setting currently feels very rogues-against-the-world. It sounds like rogue social services have been completely cut off from funding, and they're staffed by a skeleton crew of the absolute least qualified people. When I see that, that implies to me some kind of purposeful, spiteful political plot, like you occasionally see to defund social programs in real life. But I don't understand how that could succeed when there's an ultraking backing the rogues. Maybe this is taking place before Raox came to power or something like that, but I am still curious to know exactly what went down.

Basically, from the ITQ posts I got the impression that the rogues problems were /in spite/ of real social services, not /because/ of it, so I'm just a bit surprised it's turned out to be such a dystopic, worst-case scenario. To be frank... "You'll be punished for committing suicide in an inconvenient way" is so over-the-top I kinda lose a sense of scale for the story.
>>
No. 121339 ID: 60797c

>>121338

We don't know exactly when Mac's story is taking place, or where. As far as governments go, we know there are two ultrahives, that there used to be more, and that there are civilized cities/towns outside those ultrahives' control. But those non-ultrahive centres have seemed implied to be around city-state scale, whereas the ultrahives have seemed implied to be large superpowers, since they have spaceports. So, there might also be issues at a more local level. I would guess that the ultrahives contain lesser state- or county-like regions, with their own bureaucracies and budget balances and maybe some of their own legislation. So, even if the larger ultrahive has a lot of decent policies and mandates about rogues, it'd be very easy for a smaller sub-ultrahive/state to say "oh but we really need money for [other thing]" and cut their spending on rogue social services to almost nothing.
>>
No. 121356 ID: 3abd97

>>121338
I think an important part of the context is that Raox spoke up for rogues and got responsibility for them dumped on him- on top of whatever his existing job and responsibilities were. So even if he's doing the best he can, from the inception, any rogue services programs aren't getting as much time / support / funding as they really could be in order to be effective.

The specifics in that speech Luvi had to read were terrible-bad, I agree. That's exactly the wrong way to try to rein in or help a psychological trauma victim.
>>
No. 121390 ID: 0f7290

What seems more unusual to me is that there aren't non-government groups with an interest in helping rogues. I'd imagine there are at least a few bleeding heart hives who have a strong enough general desire to help people to overcome their distaste for rogues, at least in ways that don't require them to actually meet them in person. Even if those hives focus more on other charitable causes or tend to not live on the homeworld, where neumono seem to be at their toughest, there are still plenty of wealthy individuals and companies who'd want to look good and get tax benefits by being charitable, and rogues are a big, visible social problem. I would assume there are religious organizations, too; their help would come with some strings attached, but it would still be something.
>>
No. 122033 ID: 4af5a8

>>/questdis/121925
>Rogues who had hives are terrible because they have a hole in them that their hives used to fill, and the vast majority of them never come to terms with it. They try to fill it with drugs, religion, work, other neumono, and anything else they can get their hands on, and they fail.

Well that's really depressing. This sounds like even in a total post-scarcity world with all economic problems solved, rogues would still be miserable. I'm starting to wonder if any solution to the rogues' problems is even possible. The best I can think of is amassing enough Three Stripes (or Dastrika) clones to give every neumono an empathic correction when they're at risk of going rogue, but using predators is a whole other can of ethical and existential worms.

...Now I kinda want to get off the asteroid just so we can see how society has progressed in the time since Polo Quest.
>>
No. 122069 ID: 82a884

>>122033
In a total post-scarcity world with all economic problems solved, it's easy to imagine there might be actual progress in mental health treatment/whatnot for rogues that might help mitigate the misery. Not to mention crying over your lack of a hive in your private luxury starship is nicer than crying over your lack of a hive in Murdermugging Alleyway.

>I'm starting to wonder if any solution to the rogues' problems is even possible.
The only thing I can really think of that doesn't involve mind modification would be having some way of computer detecting and analyzing empathy, such that you could maybe database an enormous number of hives and compare the empathy of a rogue to see if there were any potential replacement/matches in the database. Even then I'm not sure the chances of finding a matching hive would necessarily be anything other than a crapshoot.
>>
No. 122085 ID: a43366

>>121338
This is kind of late since I didn't notice it until today, but hopefully I can clear up a few things that won't spoil anything about The Rogue.

One of the things I am trying to do is give you the viewpoint of Mac specifically, and by extension the viewpoints of all the characters she meets. So while you can assume most of the characters are honest and accurate in what they say and experience, they all have biased points of view. There is still a lot of context about the situation rogues are living under in Queenwood specifically and the Tree at large that are planned to be explored which may (or may not!) assuage some of your concerns.

Hopefully you will stick with the story and some of your questions can be answered organically within it.

As for a quick clarification, The Rogue takes place in 139 on the Asteroidquest timeline, so about 4 years after Poloquest. This likely won't be too important, besides giving context to where in the story this takes place.
>>
No. 122223 ID: 186ed6

THREE STRIPES FTW!
>>
No. 122224 ID: 186ed6

>>111810
>>111811
>>122223
Need more Three Stripes lol
>>
No. 122450 ID: d2e2ce

If anyone's interested, I'm organizing a Best Neumono poll. Preliminaries are here.

https://goo.gl/forms/8DbBckcqMDdqd6Xm1

Vote for which neumono you want to see in the actual polls, feel free to select as many as desired.
>>
No. 122451 ID: 82a884
File 152402741970.png - (320.10KB , 1400x1000 , He would find this creepy as hell I'm sure.png )
122451

>>122450
>Best neumono poll
>Best neumono isn't even an option in the preliminaries

It was three months ago why does it still hurt
why do I feel this way

>>
No. 122452 ID: d2e2ce

>>122450
And ahead of time, the answer to "why isn't X on there" is because they didn't appear ITQ. I used that as the metric since it can actually be objectively measured unlike "I like this one, add pls", it prevents me from drowning in hundreds of neumono, and I figure that anyone liked enough to be asked stuff is liked enough to have a shot. If you want to see a specific character on there then get them an appearance ITQ.
>>
No. 122455 ID: 7e3575

>>122450
>>122452
>Polokoa, Rokolo and other neumono from their timeline/s aren't on the list

They had ITQs, you have a non-Lago neumono (Koror), you have alternate timeline version neumono, so why not? I mean obviously Polokoa would just landslide the victory so she'd generously not participate, but what about the rest? That'd also open the question of demi-neumonos, since we had a couple of those, which would be interesting. It could also sort of satisfy >>122451 because Rokolo's version of Likol did get an ITQ.

There was a pair of possibly-double-fictional characters who answered a bunch of sex questions once, too.
>>
No. 122456 ID: 90f3c0

>>122452
Likol actually did have an ITQ appearance >>111967
>>
No. 122457 ID: d2e2ce

>>122456
Well, damn, the ITQ guide needs some updating then. I'll add him to the poll and notify people of the update. It's designed so people are free to go back and edit responses for this exact sort of situation where I miss a qualified neumono.
>>
No. 122458 ID: d2e2ce

>>122451
Oh, right. Good news, mate, Likol's an option now. Enjoy.
>>
No. 122463 ID: 5f3f48

>Likol actually did have an ITQ appearance >>111967
>Well, damn, the ITQ guide needs some updating then.
That Likol ITQ is currently linked off the Unnatural Selection page, since that's the quest where Likol is a major character. (Instead of a barely named side character who dies very quickly).

The conflict here is the itq guide(s) on each quest page in the wiki were set up for reader convenience- make it easy to find the characters for that quest. (Which is why itqs from Unse, Polokoa, and The Rogue, for example, are listed on their own pages instead of buried an omnibus. If you want a massive omnibus, well, you can read the raw itq threads)!

The big Asteroid itq guide is set up the way it is because there's several stories with two many shared characters to cleanly divorce, and split up by when things were said so archive readers can read itqs at the same pace as they read through threads, if they so choose. (So they aren't missing information revealed in itq when it's relevant in-thread, and preemptive spoilers are limited).

Wasn't ever set up to be a single comprehensive list of every character.
>>
No. 122469 ID: 82a884

>>122458
I don't need a poll to tell me that Likol's the best I have my heart for that, but I appreciate that he has been added.

>>122455
>>122456
And I appreciate your efforts at helping get him in.
>>
No. 122470 ID: d2e2ce

tl;dr: New poll here, can only pick one this time- https://goo.gl/forms/Ird9rCWUzvYLKQTn2

Okay, so I got nearly 50 responses way faster than I anticipated. I grabbed 13 neumono who got over 10 votes, and the 3 highest after that to round it out to 16. I considered going with 16, 8, 4, 2 neumono in each successive poll but decided that would take way too long, so for the sake of not losing interest I'm holding the semifinals with these 16, and the 4 highest will go to the finals.

Here's the OFFICIAL COOL NEUMONO CLUB- these neumono are officially the popular kids.

Polo- 24 votes
Koror- 19 votes
Rokoa and Katzati (tie)- 17 votes
Kappi- 15 votes
Pilon- 14 votes
Likol- 13 votes
Jessica, Roxie, and Agent Polo (tie)- 12 votes
Korli, Officer Rokoa, and Mac (tie)- 11 votes

These three are also in the official club but they'll always have to live with the knowledge that they got pity invites to fill out numbers. The shame will never leave them.

Giant and Sniper Clone (tie)- 8 votes
Az- 7 votes
>>
No. 122485 ID: d2e2ce

So I've written a bunch of lewd fics and people convinced me to post them in more public places. They all feature neumono, either wholly or at least partially. If people are interested, here you go. Note that they generally all involve some fetish stuff because I know my audiences.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DD7KJ2BPf-gXTNC8XFoVDboWzumba7PIRYUZCZnsZm0/edit?usp=sharing Great Coach Rokizuka. A Jessica/Kappi fic. Rokoa decides she's tired of them being awkward and coaches them on how to get over sexual tension. I wrote this in one night after a friend convinced me it would be funny, and Jessica's voice isn't quite as close to her canon self as I'd like. Might edit it someday to try and fix it.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VikjSyAjGQzyBJjze0S4vabyVQk264kHUY5oAI1JsQ0/edit?usp=sharing Katzati writes a fic. A Katzati/Polo fic. In a hypothetical time after Polo Quest is resolved, Katzati writes a lewd fic while in quarantine and gets interrupted by Polo's visit.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fp-JVAyT4wBntsSYe0FNlJkpEm_M9qVOoD2wkUepNpI/edit?usp=sharing Koror and the Amazons. A Koror/pygmies fic, written before the appearance of actual pygmies in Koror Quest. Koror lands on the island and makes the acquaintance of some thirsty pygmies. The first fic I wrote, ended up way longer than I expected so I decided to make a show of taking it too seriously.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BkWmdKoeHRTCcUe_dBIl0bwntBHyFja1_pwg95rJ1jk/edit?usp=sharing Koror and the Crystal Skull. A Koror/Ceridwen fic. After Koror crashes into the ocean, he's abducted--rescued by a mysterious stranger and they adventure through an ancient temple in search of treasures. Written a fair bit ago, before a lot of development in Dragon Romance had happened.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bdp6xhClOnZHGLPUIydvWkoXyvumexbGjnEiY8O2h7k/edit?usp=sharing Make Love, not War. A Polo/Rokoa fic. In a divergent intermission where the assassination failed, Rokoa and Polo flee to safety, finding some way to occupy themselves until Sealock can extract them. For this one, I tried to stay true to the characterization and arrange the situation so that it would be realistic for them to bang without getting too convoluted. Polo's still noticeably sluttier than canon, but it's porn.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AoJI2RzxgFyJOsIinWaNp_dwhUWnyORz2DqtJlwuC_E/edit?usp=sharing The Six Million Zeny Neumono. A Sharpa/Pilon fic. Sharpa tries and eventually succeeds to convince Pilon to get a certain implant and satisfy her cybernetics kink. Character kinks in the fic may or may not exist in canon.
>>
No. 122490 ID: d2e2ce

tl;dr: Final poll here, turned on anti-vote-stuffing settings but now that means you have to sign in: https://goo.gl/forms/a80tyvyHPeeMhuyn2

You can view results by adding /viewanalytics to the end of the URL, but please vote for whoever you actually like and not just whoever you think is going to win.

Here's the OFFICIAL BEST NEUMONO CLUB- these neumono are the best. There's enough variety for everyone to hopefully like something from the list, but we haven't determined the BEST OF THE BEST yet.

Polo- 8 votes.*
Katzati- 7 votes.*
Likol- 5 votes.
Koror- 4 votes.

*So, the bad news is that there was some odd activity with the votes going on and I'm not entirely sure if people were trying for shenanigans or I was just overly paranoid. Blank responses from some people who I assume were trying to see the results, a couple instances of two votes for the same neumono at nearly the exact time timestamp which could be charitably blamed on doubleposting from poor connection, and also close-knit groups of votes within a few minutes. I don't know if those were coincidences or people were trying to canvas votes. But the fact that whenever weirdly coincidental vote times appeared either Polo or Katzati would suddenly catch up or creep ahead by exactly one vote makes me assume the worst.

I deleted a bunch of responses that seemed off, so I apologize if you voted legitimately and got nullified, but even without the deletions the top 4 would be unchanged. They might be in a different order, but the same group would still be in the finals, so maybe my worry was pointless.

Just in case, please keep in mind that the poll is a popularity contest that exists for fun and some banter about the contestants. There aren't going to be actual consequences or prizes, and it's still going to be a matter of taste who the best neumono is, nobody's going to change their opinion of who they like because of poll numbers. It's not worth ruining the fun by being underhanded, if anyone is.
>>
No. 122491 ID: 82a884

>>122490
>"forgetting" Likol even though he was the viewpoint character for two recent 1000+ post threads
>when he still manages to get to the finals, trying to sabotage Likol by making me cry at his description so I can't vote
What about YOUR dirty tactics, huh?
>>
No. 122492 ID: d2e2ce

>>122491
I think you're joking, but in case you're serious, I didn't forget he existed, I forgot that he answered stuff ITQ. A lot of questions aren't to specific neumono and who answers them tends to be fairly random.

Not sorry about the tears, though, I'll cackle evil laughter about my trap succeeding.
>>
No. 122493 ID: 82a884

>>122492
Yes, I was trying to be funny. Didn't intend to sound like I was seriously trying to criticize the way you were running the poll.
>>
No. 122495 ID: d2e2ce

>>122493
It worked pretty well, I keep the serious hat on about the poll.
>>
No. 122496 ID: 91ee5f

>>122490
>Blank responses from some people who I assume were trying to see the results
I’m going to admit that was me just once or twice. I wanted to see who was winning and I didn’t know about adding /viewanalytics to the end of the URL. Sorry about that.

>weirdly coincidental vote times for either Polo or Katzati
Well that sucks. This was meant to be a fun thing and yet some people just feel the need to try and force their favorite to win the vote.
>>
No. 122498 ID: d2e2ce

>>122496
No worries, I had the same issue before I did a bit of googling to find out how other people could view the results directly.
>>
No. 122512 ID: d2e2ce

Since it's been a bit over a day and there haven't been any new voters in a while, I've closed the final poll. The results are out, and the very best neumono, the creme de la creme iiiiiiissss....

👑POLO👑, #1 with 7 votes, just barely ahead of...
Likol, #2 with 6 votes, who had slightly more of a lead over...
Katzati and Koror, tied for #3 with 4 votes each.

Total participation went down a bit, possibly because of fatigue or because the anti-cheat measures worked. Either way, it's been a great ride and there were some surprises along the way, so I'd say it's been worth it. Maybe I should make polls a monthly thing for other races or more specific traits like cutest or best dressed.
>>
No. 122513 ID: 12b116
File 152432629947.png - (166.91KB , 954x1119 , canon best neumono.png )
122513

Why did we need a poll to tell us what was already confirmed fact?
>>
No. 122522 ID: a363ac
File 152440097283.png - (221.03KB , 1000x1119 , 152432629947.png )
122522

>>122513
>>
No. 122524 ID: 9aca35

>>122512
damn I missed the entire thing, would a single extra Rokoa vote at the applicable times have gotten her further?

not that it matters now, Polo is good for the top spot.
>>
No. 122525 ID: d2e2ce

>>122524
Nope. She made it into the semifinals, but only got 2 votes. Even if you'd voted for her then, she'd have tied with Pilon at 3 votes, and still been below Koror's 4 votes. At least you can feel secure that you didn't make her lose.
>>
No. 122527 ID: 3804c3

>>122524
It's okay I didn't know this was going on either.
>>
No. 122530 ID: 2aba49

>>122513
nice

>>122524
>>122527
I missed it too, but I would have voted for Polo anyway
>>
No. 123394 ID: ad7c25

Okay now I've just had a thought (I'm sorry), if the only difference between Unnatural Selection and UnseUnce is the sex then does that mean that in Unnatural Selection when Allison had all the AIs brought out from the Belenos sim that there were cannon versions of all the characters we've met in UnseUnce? Like is there a cannon version of Incoming Wife and Justice Husband in the CAI city?
>>
No. 123395 ID: 3abd97

>>123394
It's possible, even probable, yeah. If you take the view that Unse Unce is just us replaying the same Belenos sim with a different strategy.

But there's been hints that there's some degree of randomization that make different instances of the CAI battles not exactly the same. And things in Unse Unce were slightly different as soon as we showed up: like the brothel Vinyl works at, or Yallows not being around at all. It's possible that might mean some NPCs show up in one version of the sim, but not others.

Another possible example of that: we know Arbiter is a reincarnated Diamond- that means in one of the early cycles, someone rescued the Diamond Emperor from the simulation. But Diamond was dead when we played in canon and Unse Unce. Which means they either played a different Belenos sim than we did (one that takes place in an early year maybe? Or one where a different emperor was killed off?), or they found Diamond hidden and alive somewhere and we missed that particular secret.
>>
No. 123397 ID: ad7c25

>>123395
This does make me some what happy but you know what'll make me real happy?
Guys help me out here, how many cycles had passed till Glitcher and Rulekeeper stp everything?
>>
No. 123398 ID: 3abd97

>>123397
>Guys help me out here, how many cycles had passed till Glitcher and Rulekeeper stp everything?
The current cycle is 3119, if that's what you mean.

Although the total number of cycles was longer. Likol and co stopped the experiment and reset things a few time. The cycles included in those earlier "archcyles" of the experiment aren't included in the current count.
>>
No. 123408 ID: ad7c25

>>123398
So with over 3000 cycles is it not within the realm of possibility that the Ultra Non-Cannon Extravaganza may in fact BE CANNON!
Yeah no I didn't think so either and while that would make me happy enough that I couldn't leave the house without being arrested I and we all can hopefully take comfort in the idea that one of those cycles has placed a sex fiend Allison into Unnatural Selection cannon.
>>
No. 123422 ID: caf1de

Looking through we never did Party Gang 1
>>
No. 123646 ID: 8c0673

I'm really sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any plans to continue Polokoa Quest?
>>
No. 123650 ID: c518a0

>>123646

Yes. If I can overcome my inability to get anything done.
>>
No. 123651 ID: 7fad5d

How egg
>>
No. 123782 ID: 9125e0
File 152986648445.jpg - (2.16MB , 4032x3024 , 0B625BF5-7F24-48D8-95B8-29A34D3FD708.jpg )
123782

spent like all night on this but is amazing I used a Image of a ITQ for Reference
>>
No. 123783 ID: fcd056

>>123782
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5HOt0ZOcYk
>>
No. 123785 ID: 15a025

>>123782
That's pretty rad!
>>
No. 123786 ID: 9125e0

XD
>>
No. 123801 ID: 9125e0
File 152995755193.png - (1.94MB , 2001x1125 , 726134C4-4A55-4C64-BE77-E4DA38ED2DD0.png )
123801

Also my gta crew .btw that Emblem was the first one I ever attempt at making on GTA and it took me forever to get it done
>>
No. 124003 ID: eafb40

>>123650
Are you anywhere online? Neither your DeviantArt account nor your FurAffinity account have updated in forever. Do you've a Discord or a Tumblr? Are you on the OPP forum?
>>
No. 124004 ID: 44b1bb

>>124003
Let us know so we can stalk you on the internet.
>>
No. 124016 ID: 9125e0

Yeah Jukashi let us be your internet stalker hideing in the bush's waiting for Polokoa Quest 3
>>
No. 124028 ID: 44b9db

Seeing the new Polo quest thread with Penn go up was actually the highlight of my day.
Thanks for creating Lago.
>>
No. 124102 ID: 9125e0
File 153123729975.jpg - (2.15MB , 4032x3024 , ED1C8218-6F87-4639-81C3-93EC8AC91BEF.jpg )
124102

So in Anticipation for the next Pen quest update I made a new shirt,I really liked the movie poster shirt from dating a murder neumono so I made an attempt to make it.
Sadly I do not have very many colors to work with witch means it’s off color.

Next shirt I’ll try to make will be the “Polo does it from behind” shirt XD.

Also I don’t know if this has been ask before but Lagotrope is there a chance for some asteroidquest merch at all
I would die for a three stripes plushie.

Also one last thing
Lagotrope you made my day too when PoloQuest 7 came up,your one of if not the Radis Quest author on the internet.
>>
No. 124138 ID: bfb318

Thanks, and good stuff.

To answer the question re: merchandise, I've considered the possibility, but there's likely too small an audience to really do any kind of significant investment towards merch. Basic standardized stuff (stickers, t-shirts, mousepads, basically 2d stuff printed onto various surfaces) is more doable though, with very little investment required.

A three stripes plush though is pretty high up, as it requires finding someone with the skills, knowledge, and materials to make a custom shaped plush like that. I'm unsure of anyone who does that sort of thing, save for businesses that only do wholesale at a required quantity of 500+ or some such.

Admittedly, if not for the requirements for a plush, a three stripes plush would be the first merch done. Maybe someday.
>>
No. 124139 ID: 9125e0

Thanks for the response Lagotrope I appreciate it.

I would love t-shirts and stickers too.

Well keep on Questing.




....One day il have that ThreeStripes plushie one day...
>>
No. 124140 ID: 9125e0

I think its Kind of funny that the first time I saw anything AsteroidQuest was on CoD blackops2
he was spawnkilling my team pretty hard and his calling card emblem was ThreeStripes,so it kept flashing across my screen for a good 5 minutes of getting spawn killed.
Bout a week later and I fownd Tgchan and AsteroidQuestIntermishon#1 was the threed I randomly picked to see what quest were.


ever since Iv roamed CoD lobbys looking for that man. lol
>>
No. 124141 ID: 9125e0

*Tread*
sorry but its late and I miss spelled some things
>>
No. 124142 ID: 3b108e

For plushes, talk to Crows, the author of Frontier Quest. He has a source for custom plushes and some other people in tgchan have done business. I think someone got one of Katzati.
>>
No. 124177 ID: 9125e0

so im trying to start up a quest
but i dont know how to make a thread can somebody help me?
>>
No. 124179 ID: 90f3c0

>>124177
Just use the form at the top of the main quest board. https://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/

Also, there's a quest advice thread for question like this. https://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/121761.html
>>
No. 124182 ID: 9125e0

thanks it rely helped me
>>
No. 124183 ID: 9125e0

thanks it rely helped me
>>
No. 124211 ID: 166e1c

Faraday cage can prevent electromagnetic fields generated outside to affect objects inside but don't prevent electromagnetic fields generated inside to affect objects outside. Being inside one prevent you from receiving signals but you can still send.
>>
No. 124217 ID: b1b4f3

>>124211
Not so. Microwaves use the faraday cage effect to contain their radiation.
The blocking effect goes both ways, BUT the cage has to be grounded for that to work. If it's not grounded, then yes, internal signals can escape.
>>
No. 124218 ID: 5b93d3

>>124217
Technically grounding is only required if you want to pass signals in and out (e.g. running a conductor through the cage). If the inside is isolated, then grounding is unnecessary (and potentially counterproductive).
>>
No. 124401 ID: 1fbbcc

People seem to be putting a lot more stock in the idea of the ASE seeing Penn as a leader or object of admiration in herself than seems wise to me. Like, I think that "biological reincarnation" sounds a lot like one half of a true reincarnation, the other half being mental, body + mind. That Penn is basically a vessel pre-made for a takeover by some brain download seems like one of the more likely scenarios, and for all we know the ASE does have some sapphire brain scan they dug up sitting around waiting to go - if you wanted to entertain some indiana jones ancient conspiracy thinking, maybe the ASE are even descended from some cult that's been holding on to such a thing for thousands of years. Secret imperial/science/technology cults seem like they would have been a thing for the tribal belenosians.

The way someone looks at their god, and the way someone looks at the spare parts they could use to build their god... those would be close enough to be mistaken for each other, I think.
>>
No. 124435 ID: 9125e0
File 153232185141.jpg - (2.74MB , 4032x3024 , 9C6B358C-85C4-4064-BC96-569095C51669.jpg )
124435

So a friend came by and surprised me with this


I didn’t even know he know what asteroidquest was

Only complaint is he missed a stripe he said he’ll fix it Though.
>>
No. 125107 ID: 9125e0
File 153540170790.png - (594.31KB , 1074x778 , 3672257B-2ED1-414A-963B-9B50BFFE0D77.png )
125107

I know it’s probably pretty bad but I was trying to learn how to make clouds and it turned into me drawing Quokko....

I bet Likol and you are up there counting the stars...
>>
No. 125157 ID: bfb318

>>125107
Very cute Quokko, also (belatedly) a surprising medium for Three Stripes. Thank you for posting these.
>>
No. 125263 ID: 864e49

Hey Lago updates!

I was just thinking to myself yesterday that its been awhile since and Lago activity and was think that he was probably taking a sweet vaca.
>>
No. 125264 ID: 91ee5f

>>125263
No, he’s been sick and was recovering from an illness.

But it is good to know that he’s feeling better now!
>>
No. 125267 ID: eeb7d9

Glad to see him up and about.
>>
No. 125269 ID: 465a14

>>125264
No, Lago actually was on vacation in Vegas. He recovered a fair bit ago.
>>
No. 126071 ID: afdebc

>>/quest/907187
>"What happens if you cut a neumono in half?"
>>/quest/907190
>That was already answered in ITQ. One of the earliest questions in fact.
Specifically, that was answered here. >>51355

>>/quest/907213
>If they had the means, material and even the materiel to clone anyone, of any species and make an army, they would have had much better security forces other than a gaggle of crazy rokoa brain dart victims
In general, cloning tech does exist in the asteoidverse. Here's Polo talking about clone rights, and even clones used as soldiers. >>68968

Now, cloning neumono reliably and/or repeatedly the way Vanski and/or the science hive is doing is something of a recent breakthrough (although one could quibble that dart clones are cheating since you're copying over / altering an existing person instead of growing a new one entirely from scratch).

You're right that Vanski is making sub-optimal use of his resources in ways that don't make sense using experimental neumono clones for defense, but that kind of behavior is consistent with what we've grown to expect from him. (One could argue Vanski couldn't access conventional soldier-cloning tech for other species, but given the reach we've seen OPA display I don't believe that for a second).
>>
No. 126072 ID: 10c408

>>126071
My argument was more about the logistical problems involved in cloning, rather than the availability of the involved tech.

He is being hunted by the entire world, after all. A fact that he likely wasn't prepared for and is now scrambling to manage before his house of cards collapses on him.
>>
No. 126073 ID: 10c408

>>126071
My argument was more about the logistical problems involved in cloning, rather than the availability of the involved tech.

He is being hunted by the entire world, after all. A fact that he likely wasn't prepared for and is now scrambling to manage before his house of cards collapses on him.
>>
No. 126076 ID: 977456

Interesting. So you can regrow small parts quickly. So you just need to keep removing small pieces, keep them alive using standard brain-in-a-jar technology, then stick all your small pieces together once you have enough volume to start regeneration. And you can even speed up and improve the process by continuing to add more bits from the donor. So long as the donor is never missing more than, say, half-a-kilo at any given moment, you should have your clone up-and-running in a few months. Once you have multiple near-identical donors, the process can accelerate, and the donors can continue to be active provided that they have sufficient medical attention.
>>
No. 126077 ID: b1b4f3

>>126076
The brains from the various pieces would be desynched and probably fight one another.
>>
No. 126078 ID: 10c408

>>126076
As was pointed out, the brain matter migrates away from damaged areas and you have no way of determining what's even 'in' the removed section, let alone the neumono who has been donating.
>>
No. 126080 ID: 094652

So the neumono body adapts to repeated amputations in the same part by taking the neural instructions to regrow that specific part, along with most of the brain for that matter, and shoves it somewhere else. Similar to how scar tissue is a crude but adaptive reaction to severe damage, only this is an evolution for regeneration and not defense.

Makes sense. I think I have an idea.

What if we ARTIFICIALLY SIMULATED repeated amputations to various areas, without physically amputating anything, and condensed the brain into a smaller area - like an actual brain? How hard would it be to convince a neumono's body into thinking their limb was amputated, by simulating the environmental factors involved like adrenaline input and partial sensory deprivation? The body is tricked into thinking a part has been decapitated, then re-attached a similar part with near-perfect synchronicity. Since it's the same limb and same nerve pathways, the sync rate should be preeetty high. But in theory, the body reacts. Less neural activity in those specific portions, more in others. By the end, you have a functioning brain of sorts in a compartmentalized area. Still dangerous, but an interesting field of study for Vanski.
>>
No. 126082 ID: d5442a

>>126080
The neumono's body may reduce the amount of brain power in a limb from amputation, but I doubt it would entirely remove it. Neumono aren't amoebas, they have skeletons and muscles and those take up the space they need to take up, so brain matter probably isn't evenly distributed so much as it collects in a few particular nodes, like a set of mini-brains. Those mini brains may be more or less developed compared to each other, but they probably don't disappear.

Simulating amputation is also probably more than just a matter of nerve and hormone stimulation. A neumono's body probably has some (usually subconscious) awareness of its own empathy and would read the absence of its limbs in that way.
>>
No. 126085 ID: 977456

>126080
Fascinating proposal! I wonder if a compression of the mental tissues would increase processing speed. By concentrating the mental tissues in an easily-protected and low-exposure location, say, the base of the torso, one could retain most of the Neumono's advantages while overcoming their slow reaction-times. Additionally, by minimising the mental tissue in the less protected regions, their recovery times from and resistance to typical combat injuries(such as dismemberment and high-calibre rounds through the centre-mass) could be almost trivialised, while shooting from hard-cover would have minimal long-term risk.

Perhaps electrical pulses could be used to disrupt the function in the desired areas. This could even result in a net increase in mental capacity should the suppressed tissue return to full function. On the other hand, if it resulted in a disconnect with the effected regions and, for want of a better term, a civil-war, or cancer, then it could potentially be weaponised directly. Being consumed by, or consuming, a past version of themselves would be disruptive to morale and incapacitating. That said, an effective delivery system that wouldn't be better used on sedatives or explosives would be difficult to produce.
>>
No. 126092 ID: 40ae85

>>126085
>an easily-protected and low-exposure location, say, the base of the torso

That... doesn't seem like it'd be a good place for a brain. For a lot of reasons. I don't think it's easily-protected or low exposure, and has a bunch of other disadvantages.
>>
No. 126095 ID: 10c408

>>126082
Neumono brain matter isn't distributed into sets of 'mini-brains', it is it's own additional layer that covers most if not all of the body.
>>
No. 126096 ID: 40ae85

>>126095
I wouldn't think so, that seems really sub-optimal. You could get the same redundancy with nodes, without getting in the way of your skin, muscles and bones, and probably take advantage of the bones to provide some protection instead of having literally all damage be brain damage. Basically a nervous system with some of the key junctions pumped up. Neumono must have at least some concentrated brain matter, since their skulls are pretty big can't be full of only sense organs. So if they have some brain concentration there, why not some near other key areas like the forearms, near the stomach, base of the spine, et cetera?
>>
No. 126097 ID: 10c408

>>126096
Okay, I went and looked it up on the wiki. I got some of it wrong, but they still don't have nodes or mini-brains.

And yes, this distributed placement is a bit inefficient for reaction times and learning but the sheer amount of punishment they can endure AND recover from given time and food is a helluva trade off.
>>
No. 126100 ID: 977456

>>126092
The torso-base doesn't require much mobility and is central and low for balance, so can have more armouring than any other part of the body. It is less used and exposed than limbs, so no need to throw it in people's faces where it could get bitten. It's much lower than most senses and armaments, thus the surrounding terrain is far more likely to protect it from direct attacks and shrapnel. It really seems like the best place for a critical location in a super-soldier, which seems like the appropriate MAD SCIENCE goal.
>>
No. 126101 ID: 40ae85

>>126100
The torso base is already full with your reproductive and digestive systems, the latter of which is subject to a lot of variation in weight (that's why the hips are basically shaped like a bowl, to be able to carry them). The stomach is the one area with vital organs that DOESN'T have any sort of bone protection like the skull or rib cage provides higher up, and the reason it doesn't have it is because the lower torso is a major area of articulation, being subject to all sorts of twisting, bending, curling, stretching and flexing. The torso is also the area where most people with guns are going to be trained to shoot, especially in neumono, for whom being shot in the gut is the canonical best way to quickly disable them so that's where everybody aims.

Any roughly humanoid biped with its brain in its lower torso will have a brain with:
- no in-built protection from bones except from the hips, which will only protect from a very low angle and then only in a limited way
- a lot of varying pressures placed on it by the creature's movements if it is called upon to do basically anything athletic
- even more pressure put on it by the weight of the creature's food (remember that neumono eat more than most other species)
- about as much distance from most of its major sense organs (sight, hearing, smell, taste) as can be imagined, slowing its reactions greatly and making it much more likely that it gets cut off from those senses by any bodily harm severing nerve pathways
- a high chance of serious medical danger whenever it wants to try make babies

Also you can't actually armor it heavily because the lower torso is where your legs attach and if you want to be able to run fast you are very restricted in how thick/free of gaps you can make armor in that area.
>>
No. 126225 ID: 6266fc

Thrice dammed by all the god's! I was just beginning to really like Miss (the pomi), and then that thread ends!
Okay, I have a mission for you, (yes you,the one reading this), should you choose to accept it.
You must make the arduous journey to fanfiction.net once there you must write a Hok+Miss romance fanfic. I don't even care if it's cheesy or poorly written or barely legible.
I would do it myself, but then I wouldn't be able to enjoy reading it now would I?
Should you complete this task for me, not only will you have my sincere gratitude, but I will also officially owe you one Major solid. That's major with a capital M, and not something I take lightly.
>>
No. 126269 ID: 300f7e

I've always found the concept of Jammer Cities weird, Empathy is a major neumono sense and plays an important role in communication. It would be like if a human city forced everyone to wear masks.
>>
No. 126484 ID: 8f8fac

Panica from Luvi's story in The Rogue: There is no tactful way to ask this. Why is your pregnancy so weird. Why. Why so big. Why is your freakish alien pregnancy weird. Why. Why. Explain. Why.
>>
No. 126485 ID: e1d580

>>126484
Wrong thread, this is the OOC discussion thread. You want Behind the Ears.
>>
No. 126486 ID: 91ee5f

>>126484
Wrong thread.

Try asking again over in the BTE thread here: https://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/96269.html .
>>
No. 126561 ID: 36a114
File 154317686483.jpg - (171.64KB , 640x1136 , image.jpg )
126561

Hey look, I found a picture of Polo's father.
>>
No. 126650 ID: bdb209

>>126561
and who's the mom? doomguy's rabbit?
>>
No. 126735 ID: 83c3f5

>>126650

Big boss is the mom.
>>
No. 127271 ID: 58c855

Considering that the Sapphire Emperor is a dude, and Penn is his "Biological Reincarnation" (which i'm gonna assume means she's genetically identical), it begs the question: is Penn trans?
>>
No. 127272 ID: 465a14

>>127271
they are not even the same species, one is a robot slime and the other is flesh and blood
>>
No. 127273 ID: daffb0

>>127271
It's not actually known for sure whether Sapphire was a dude. The belenosian simulation used in UnSe is basically Arza's historical fiction. Various questions and answers about how accurate accounts/simulations of belenosian history are in UnSe and BTE have indicated that there's very little trustworthy information, and more specifically, in the case of the emperors and other ancient high nobles, the ideal was to transcend nature entirely and become some sort of asexual machine person. Because of that they were all modified heavily, or uploaded their brains to different bodies, and there's no real information about what gender they might have started as. Plus stuff like, the word "emperor" was probably an english translation of a non-gendered word in the original language, that sort of thing. I think Penn's grandmother also suggested in BTE that she isn't necessarily totally identical, possibly just partly so. It's not even known how accurate the term "biological reincarnation" is to begin with.

As for the question, I don't think there's any direct evidence against it in any canon material, but it seems unlikely. With the situation she was already in, it would have been a messy enough thing to have been hinted at in her flashbacks. She also seems barely cognizant of gender at all in her internal monologue unless something directly confronts her with it, so that would suggest it's not an important topic to her, which it probably would be if she'd been through gender identity stuff herself.

As an aside, though, it strikes me that medical tech for belenosians is probably advanced enough to make full biologically perfect transitions. On the other hand, they're not long off a culture that has strong taboos against any modification to one's "natural born" form.
>>
No. 127274 ID: 91ee5f

>>127271
>Penn is his "Biological Reincarnation" (which i'm gonna assume means she's genetically identical)
So it’s basically the plot of Jupiter Ascending, right?
>>
No. 127278 ID: daffb0

>>127274
I don't think the protagonist being a secret space princess is a concept that movie invented, and Penn does it better.

Also, not enough hot dudes.
>>
No. 127279 ID: daffb0

Thought: A few decades later, if it got out, Penn's story could TOTALLY be retold as a "based on a true story" action romance drama movie with hot dudes and love triangles.
>>
No. 127281 ID: afdebc

>>127271
If you were a different gender in a past life, that wouldn't necessarily make your current self trans. If you're going to accept the idea of reincarnation, a lot about a person can change from incarnation to incarnation.
>>
No. 127282 ID: 58c855

>>127281
while we don't have an actual definition of what biological reincarnation means in the context of Penn, i think it's safe to say that it does not mean the same thing as the human definition of reincarnation
>>
No. 127285 ID: 58c855
File 154740582245.png - (77.89KB , 800x800 , pennsuke.png )
127285

on an unrelated note:
>>
No. 127287 ID: afdebc

>>127282
You're comfortable making the (unfounded) assumption that "biological reincarnation" literally means "genetically identical", but you're going to balk at my using the definition of the word reincarnation in a highly general sense?
>>
No. 127290 ID: 58c855

>>127287
it seems more in line with the Belenosian's whole deal, that's all
also i just think itd be neat if Penn was trans
>>
No. 127291 ID: daffb0

>>127290
I dunno. A big part of Penn's character is her fixation on her goal of having a normal life, even to the point of unhealthy behavior - she was literally repressing her own memories of who/what she is until forced to do otherwise, and there are a lot of clues that she's been avoiding any hobbies, pastimes or socializing that could draw attention to her. The only thing she's allowed herself to excel at is her studies, which for her species is still normal enough to pass, and which actually has some possible undertones of addictive behavior for them. She's not really 100% mentally well, is what I'm getting at, and if she was revealed to be trans, that could have... less than excellent implications.

You could certainly see some metaphorical link there, if you try. What with her trying to assert her own identity and have a normal life under that identity, in defiance of a previous identity that most people who know about it think of her in terms of despite her wishes. That might have the same implication problems, though. Plus it could apply more generally to themes of overcoming a family reputation or things like that, so it's hardly specific.
>>
No. 127292 ID: 58c855

>>127291
fair points, honestly. if Penn DOES get revealed as trans, i feel like a complete anticlimax in the reveal where it just gets mentioned offhand would be the best way to go about it.
after all, trans people don't really need external motivation to be trans. wanting to distance herself from the Sapphire Emperor or wanting to spite the Silhouette Empire would be secondary to just straight up wanting to be a girl

worth noting is that transition would be _really_ easy for belenosians. drugs work extraordinarily well on them, as evinced by the exaggerated effects of steroids, so HRT would likely take effect over the course of weeks as opposed to the months or years it takes with humans
>>
No. 127293 ID: b1b4f3

Penn being trans because she carries Sapphire's genetic data doesn't make sense unless Sapphire was also trans.
Like, if the genes were male then Penn would also be male! Gender dysphoria doesn't happen because you've got chromosome issues, it's more complicated than that.

It'd also be very sad. We're talking about an illness that can cause serious depression and cultural/social rejection or isolation, on top of her existing problem.
Though now I'm wondering how Belenosian society handles transgender issues.
>>
No. 127294 ID: 91ee5f

>>127293
>Though now I'm wondering how Belenosian society handles transgender issues.
You could ask in the BTE thread to see if someone will answer.
>>
No. 127295 ID: daffb0

Previous BTE answers have suggested that belenosians all still carry a ton of genetic modifications, with a theme of making them "better" but also more generic. They tend to not be very thin or very overweight, to being vaguely attractive but not remarkably, et cetera, and there's some very strong hints that a lot of the modifications done to them are the kinds of things that would tend them towards being good, productive, obedient and especially non-disruptive citizens, by the standards of the ruthless superscience empire that did the modifications in the first place.

So, while they approved of things that made people better by their standards (cyborg upgrades, uploading yourself to a superior robot body, etc.), and probably encouraged changes that would emphasize the unimportance of sex or gender (such as becoming an asexual robot or freely fluid jetal), simply changing from male to female or vice versa on a permanent basis actually implies significant personal and societal importance to one's sex/gender and therefore is probably something the imperials wouldn't have approved of so much, and therefore would have taken some action to discourage. Their ideals, from what we know, were departure from nature rather than embracing different nature, if you get me.

Point being, the biological factors of being transgender (though there are other factors, of course) are probably rarer in belenosians than they are in more natural species.

Culturally, well, belenosian post-ruin tribal culture both lacked any decent medicine and apparently placed high importance on being able to have lots of children, which is the sort of thing that tends a culture towards not having a high tolerance of transgender identities. So, imperial culture wouldn't have much tolerance for mtf or ftm, and tribal culture not at all, and those are the twin stars of belenosian culture overall so it's not a good outlook. Moderates between those two might be better about it, though, and we can hope that AQverse human culture is good about that sort of thing now, and it's a big influence so that might help too.

Overall, though, there are probably less transgender people among belenosians than any other species. Which is ironic, since yes, their medicine is the most advanced and their bodies the most receptive to modification. Not only with hormone treatments but things like nanobot skeletal reshaping, and cloning hormone-treated organs for transplant, and so on.
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No. 127296 ID: 58c855

>>127293
you're on some weird shit if you think being transgender is some sort of illness or horrible curse
>>
No. 127297 ID: b1b4f3

>>127296
It is by definition an illness. Transgender people have Gender Dysphoria.
Also it makes people miserable? Like, by definition it causes distress and likely depression, because you feel like you're in the wrong body and you can't fit in with society's gender norms.

I understand there's some weird subculture that glorifies it and makes it out to be some kind of mental state that frees you from the need to adhere to those gender norms but that's just not reality. People crave acceptance, and counterculture can only go so far; rebellion is just one way to cope.

If you're simply bothered by the stigma of calling it an illness or disorder... would you say the same thing about depression? Or social anxiety? What about bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia?
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No. 127298 ID: daffb0

>>127296
>>127297
This angle of discussion is probably not going to go anywhere good for anyone, and it's not the place for it anyway, so how about we stop?
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No. 127299 ID: b1b4f3

>>127298
Eh, it just annoys me when people say being trans is somehow a good thing. I was close friends with a transgender person and it sure didn't help them in any way.
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No. 127302 ID: 58c855

>>127297
this is the last thing i'll say on whatever nonsense you're trying to convey: the reason being trans has a tendency to be a package deal with depression and other such bullshit isn't because it's inherent to being trans, its because it's inherent to being treated like shit for a long span of time over something you have no control over.

being treated like shit in ways such as: having a core aspect of one's identity being treated as an illness, people acting as though your very existence is disgusting, etc. etc. various other things you were probably aware of peripherally but chose to ignore in favor of being preachy and acting like you know what's best for someone when you evidently cannot even imagine taking a _step_ in their metaphorical shoes.

Experiences are not universal; many of the trans people i know enjoy their lives perfectly well, and i can assure you that its not in spite of being trans. If being trans _was_ suffering, it'd be because of people like you spouting view like yours to trans people who haven't gotten the chance to inoculate themselves against your specific strain of bullshit and them falling into a self hatred spiral because they actually _believe_ that sort of drivel. While I doubt anything I've said here will get you to be any less presumptuous and holier-than-thou, i still hope what I've said gets _someone_ to be less weird about trans people.

Argument done, discussion over, it's now time to talk about everyone's fear-boner over Rokoa.
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No. 127305 ID: b1b4f3

>>127302
Holy shit dude.
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No. 127306 ID: d2de35

Enough.

No one is getting anywhere with this argument and this is not the place to have this discussion. Any snippy asides on any side are going to lead to bans being handed out. This got too far out of hand and I'm ashamed I didn't intervene earlier. Move along.
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No. 127432 ID: 32afab

Just a reminder that it was a year ago today that we lost Likol.
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No. 127445 ID: 10c408

>>127432
Why must you do this to my heart.
>>
No. 127446 ID: 32afab

>>127445
I've thought about him every goddamned day since, so I couldn't just let the 29th pass without any sort of mention.
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No. 127448 ID: 864e49
File 154882212834.jpg - (76.92KB , 619x595 , 131744500907.jpg )
127448

>>127446
He will be forever remembered.
His sacrifices will not be in vain.
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No. 127490 ID: b970b2

>>127446
Likol did what had to be done. We just need to make sure Vanski gets his dues for the evil he has caused. A reckoning cannot be postponed indefinitely.
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No. 127498 ID: 58c855

Likol was braver than any US marine
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No. 127507 ID: 470289

Hi!

Moving into the second thread of The Rogue after this (hopefully shortish) prologue section, I wanted to get a better idea of what readers felt about the story. I have an unfortunate tendency to waffle on a lot of stuff, so having some hard data to make future decisions off of would ideally help me make the story better for both you and me. Or maybe it won't and this is just a dumb way for me try and understand something that's not really understandable. Either way, hopefully we'll learn something.

If you're a Rogue reader I would appreciate you filling out the following survey or if you have feedback I didn't make a question for just ask it in the thread.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VVV3VQK

Thanks!
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No. 127548 ID: 9125e0

*Pouring out liquor for Likol*
He will forever be remembered, and so will those who were lost to help him complete his goal.
>>
No. 127657 ID: 470289

Hi again!

It's been about a week and I've gotten some good feedback from the survey. Thanks to everyone who participated.

The survey will stay open for stragglers but I have reviewed all the feedback already sent and will be taking it all into consideration going forward. I can't promise I'll please everyone, but I do promise to do my best to make an entertaining story and deliver entertaining content you haven't seen before.

Once again, thanks to all readers of The Rogue and I hope you keep enjoying it!
>>
No. 128516 ID: 0ab3ed

Hey, so, I just finished reading Asteroid Quest up to Penn Quest 1, then I read Unnatural Selection, then I finished the remaining Asteroid Quest threads.
I have some thoughts, although they're split up between compliments of what i liked, critiques of what i think didn't work as well, questions about the plot, questions about certain world details and just minor comments and I won't post them all, unless someone wants me too.
It was really good, mostly. Actually, its hard to talk about a story as long as the entirety of all those threads as a cohesive whole. But it was good enough to continually engross me, especially Unnatural Selection for some reason.
I think it would be good if Unnatural Selection was placed on the Asteroid Quest wiki page now, since it has become directly related to the events of Penn Quest. It would kinda give away the reveal that they're in a CAI, but that doesn't take away very much imo, that reveal comes in thread 5 and it was still impactful even though i already vaguely knew it. In fact, knowing that they were in a CAI made the start more interesting if anything, because I had a context for what was happening.
I do have one question relating to UnSe; When previous Glitchers had been killed/eaten by the guardian beast, why hadn't Likol's alarm been triggered? I got the impression that the guardian beast transferred everything it ate to the Ring Shell, and that Likol's alarm was to trigger if an AI made it to the Ring Shell. So why hadn't it happened before with the other Glitchers who got eaten?
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No. 128544 ID: 49a777

>>128516 Personally, I would like to hear your other questions, which I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability.

To answer your already available question: the alarm didn't go off because of an AI entering the RS, it may be programmed to, but Glitcher doesn't have an ID and couldn't be detected anyway. When the alarm went off, it was because material from block C entered the RS, meaning that it was the material that Rulekeeper threw into the guardian to provide Glitcher with a shell. The key difference between our Glitcher's encounter and previous ones is that, when the guardian assimilates the Glitcher's core, it rips it from that Glitcher's shell, when that happened to our Glitcher, the tooth and a whole bunch of strings were tossed in after him. This is assuming that I remember correctly, as I had reread thread 15 (the one with the alarm going off) but not the other relevant threads.
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No. 128558 ID: 0ab3ed

Well, one thing i didnt quite get was the Ring Shell language thing. Like i got that it translated the ordinary speech of the contestants into something unintelligible, but i didnt really get how it specifically encrypted them. There was something about using the corrupted logs to translate it? Likol said he had to teach the Ring Shell morse code. How did Glitcher spell out that message he leaves in english?

Also what was with Likol's empathy double? Was that the version of him that Vanski had tried to use the predator to make him become? That was the impression i got, but it wasn't explicitly stated, and it seems a bit weird they would turn their computer scientist into a guitar player.
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No. 128569 ID: 465a14

>>128558
>Also what was with Likol's empathy double?
As stated in the quest, Likol's fragmenting. He's old enough that he's nearing the end of his lifespan and his body is falling apart. It's a common symptom at that point in their life- consider it a neumono version of Alzheimer's or dementia.
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No. 128570 ID: 465a14

>>128569
Specifically- this was mentioned when he visited a doctor to figure out what was happening, and that was what the doctor thought was happening with admittedly limited information. It's fairly explicit that Likol was tampered with in some fashion or another and very likely that this interacts somehow with his mental state, but the primary cause appears to just be being nearly at the point of death by aging.
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No. 128571 ID: b1b4f3

>>128569
>>128570
No, it was practically spelled out that the empathy double was an implanted personality to try to bring him under control. To make him stop caring about things.
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No. 128586 ID: 49a777

To answer the language question: The RS uses some language of its own, it was stated that it was not, in fact, an encryption, as it did not use an algorithm to change the letters; this is a direct translation of one language to another, so as Glitcher was becoming more, uh, attuned to the RS, he lost the capability to understand English, the corrupted logs were already in the language the RS uses, so when written out, Glitcher could read them and send it back in Morse. Morse code was, to my knowledge, just thrown in there as something that could be detected by the outside, Morse code was also put into block C, so it only worked because it was present in both places and relied on patterns rather than written language. The conversation was taking place in three languages, words were translated from English to Morse to RS, then back again. Glitcher most likely left the English message that he did before he lost the ability to read, write, and understand English. As of this moment, I don't think anybody has successfully translated RS to English (though I may have glossed over whether or not the contestants have, I know they were working on it).
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No. 128598 ID: c81ec8

Lagotrope, may I use characters and material from AstroidQuest in a quest of my own?

If asked I'll supply a laundry list of all the stuff I would want to use.

Thanks.
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No. 128602 ID: 5fc3a0

>>128598
I don't mind (I'm assuming this is outside of AQ canon), though I would be curious what you'd want to use.
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No. 128609 ID: e948d8

>>128602
Thank you sincerely.

And yes, totally outside of the cannon.

Here's a basic list of things, though I wasn't super thorough.

Polo.
Rokoa.
Katzati.
Kappi.
Neumono as a whole.
The Neumono homeworld.
Salaki. (I think I spelled that wrong.)
CAI's.
Pomi.
Yich eater.
The Asteroid itself.
Some misc stuff that I can't immediately recall, but will list out if requested.

What I plan to do with these things is a super secret, that I don't want to talk about on public channels. Not that I'm trying to go over your head, just that I want it to be a surprise.

Thank you again. No complement I have the vocabulary to issue does justice to the quality of the AQ universe and it's characters. And in turn, I find it difficult to express the gratitude I have for you letting me use them.
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No. 128626 ID: 0ab3ed

Another question, why did Vanski give Likol a fake CAI and a fake possibility to escape? He was waiting where Likol got out of the river and just recaptured him immediately, so what was he actually trying to do setting that scenario up?
Also, how did the ASE manage to put self-detruct codes on hugs.exe but not actually stop the program from being put on Likol's goggles? The CAI said something about 2 seconds but it wasn't really clear what exactly went down.
That's something that was kind of an issue for thread 17 in general actually, imo. There was a lot of stuff building up this mystery around what had happened when Likol had tried to escape and why he couldn't remember it, but there was never really a 'reveal'. We were told what happened, but we never saw it, and only in loose details. Like what was with that note on the laptops written in blood saying not to connect it to anything? It didn't seem like anything actually happened when it got connected. I feel like it would have been solved if there had been just one more flashback that went through some of what had happened in the base.
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No. 128627 ID: ab1fe9

>>128626
I think part of those questions being unanswered is just how quests are structured. We could have had the answers, but we missed them. We didn't take the path or do the thing that would have given the reveal. So... tough luck. That sort of thing is what gives a sense of stakes to your suggestions.

It's also still possible for some of those that they'll still be revealed. Or that the sense of frustration with the mystery is intentional, to enhance the atmosphere of dangerous secrecy that Polo and Penn are each going to be trying to penetrate.
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No. 128681 ID: 49a777

I seem to remember mention of Hugs.exe being made for the purpose of general use by the hive to help with things, but I don't know if that was me or if it was actually mentioned at some point. If this was the case, ASE putting some weird sequence of nonsense as a self destruct trigger, let alone a self destruct trigger, would make much more sense, as they would be able to control were the AI was able to go, but not limit its capabilities. Again, I don't know where I got this information, so take it with a grain of salt. It would also make sense if, due to the CAI's tendency to say and do strange things that may or may not be factually correct, the ASE guys referenced were Likol's hive; this assumption, however, does not account for the self destruct code, so I do not think it true.
Vanski's loyalty test, if you can call it that, was a bit odd, yes, but I just assumed that its weird nature was due to his... mental instability.
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No. 128713 ID: 5ba090

>>128627
Eh, I didn't really get that impression from the thread, that those were mysteries that were optional for the readers to solve. Like, quests vary between being more gamelike and being more storylike, or being both, and thread 17 at least seemed much more storylike. But it feels like it missed a scene to me. It doesn't really bother me though, I know that keeping track of numerous story details while writing serial fiction can be hard, and Asteroid Quest has a lot of plot-important details. This was meant to be the kind of criticism that is hopefully helpful to Lagotrope, just a description of something that didn't seem to work as well and why.

>>128681
That makes more sense, I would like to read whatever you got that from is though.

A more general question, have we learned anything about the other neumono who went through Polo's training and developed the ability to go silent? In ITQ or elsewhere?
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No. 128717 ID: ab1fe9

>>128713
>I didn't really get that impression from the thread, that those were mysteries that were optional for the readers to solve. Like, quests vary between being more gamelike and being more storylike, or being both, and thread 17 at least seemed much more storylike. But it feels like it missed a scene to me.

Well, I don't agree. Yes, the information is missing, but I don't think the story suffers for it, and I even think it's been enhanced for Polo and Penn's quests, later. I'm sure we could have searched out those mysteries, if we wanted to and were smart enough, but if they were optional then we chose not to (which might have been wise, as they could have a price) and if they were essential then we simply failed. We can do that. Even "storylike" quests, as you call them, can have details missed or tasks failed. The suggesters have some responsibility for how a stories goes as well as the author.

Even just in and of itself, though, the feeling of questions unanswered suits the atmosphere of the quest itself. Likol is a scientist - having questions to answer, being surrounded by mysteries, is appropriate to him. Having those questions be hard to solve, with an air of dread around them, reinforces the frustration and fear he's feeling, and the sense that something that he values (the search for knowledge) has been tainted and become bitter for him. And when the quest ends, and he's taken away with those questions unanswered, yeah it's unsatisfying - it is for him, too! He doesn't want to go. He's not at peace. His future is uncertain but almost certainly horrible, and he's had to resign himself to never getting what he'd really want. Because we haven't gotten an answer to our questions, our feelings line up with his perfectly. I mean, if we had gotten all the mysteries revealed, and felt that we were satisfied and sure what was going on, would that have been the right feeling to have while watching Likol go to his doom?
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No. 128722 ID: 465a14

>>128713
Basically only ITQ. Polo is the only complete success. The others are all from her hive and can't maintain it to the same degree she can, iirc if they had any others who could go silent at all it was only for short periods of time and it was painful/harmful to do.
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No. 128726 ID: 864e49

By the way it's been awhile since wev'e seen any activity from Lago.
They ok?
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No. 128809 ID: 465a14

>>128726
He's been around offsite. I assume he's busy, or if he actually did get sick or something I didn't see mention of it.
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No. 129394 ID: 1ed92d
File 155761501449.png - (143.01KB , 662x781 , Mac the NOD Trooper.png )
129394

Behold, the true face of the Rogues! Only the Brotherhood shall see us through!
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No. 129447 ID: 1ac5eb
File 155806763177.png - (439.84KB , 1400x1000 , Luvi drones about cartoons, you stare at her ches.png )
129447

Got some rogue pics done. gonna upload them... eventually. Here's the first.

Art by GraphyGraphie. They are super nsfw, so fair warning if you look em up.
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No. 129448 ID: 1ac5eb
File 155806890456.png - (929.29KB , 1500x1200 , Beware the Lesbian.png )
129448

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No. 129449 ID: 1ac5eb
File 155806931785.png - (2.46MB , 1500x1125 , It's porn_ That's the joke_.png )
129449

There was a misunderstanding about what they were going to be paid for.
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No. 129743 ID: 34fb21

Hey lagotrope I’m planning on having my character make a visit to the unnatural selection quest of yours in my quest of course since my character is a dimension hopper this interaction can be canon for my quest and non canon for yours just letting you know if you want to make some pictures of the interaction or hint to this in your next update to unnatural selection
>>
No. 129744 ID: 34fb21

Also please note don’t have Alison immediately try to hug Chronos he will stab he learned from his mistakes also if you want a reference of what chronos looks like look at RebelQuest
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No. 129745 ID: 5fc3a0

>>129743
Hey, you're welcome to use whatever characters/settings of mine you want in your quest, I don't mind. Thanks for asking though!

With that said, it would be non-canon though for UnSe, so it wouldn't be appropriate to foreshadow anything in those threads. There isn't an active UnSe thread in which to do it anyway, for that matter.
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No. 129748 ID: 34fb21

>>129745
Yeah I guessed this but thanks for responding
Anyways when the quest starts moving things will get crazy seeing as chronos’s reason for heading to the unnatural selection quest first is because of radmin’s little quote about how they are an unsinkable ship he is 100% going to be buried in books about the Bismarck and the Titanic and Chronos is going to probably break the cycle and set everyone free he is the physical manifestation of rebellion and Will after all and radmin just challenged his power
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No. 129749 ID: 34fb21

Before I forget I should tell you about the secret and real reason chronos is embarking on this quest to gather people Chronos is currently facing an existence ending threat by the name of Omni of which one he needs to get an army and also he needs to get stronger in a sense because of the specifics of this mission of his I am considering sending him to fens quest next
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No. 129751 ID: b1b4f3

>>129749
You should make your own questdis thread for talking about your quest, and also probably not spoil potential readers on things that are supposed to be secret.
>>
No. 129752 ID: 34fb21

Also lagotrope feel free to drop by my quest https://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/937218.html
Anytime and leave any suggestions to what Chronos should do and feel free to use any of my characters or species (except my wraiths they will be more trouble than they are worth) in any of your quests
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No. 129762 ID: 34fb21

Also lastly lagotrope it would be appreciated if you drew the scenes while we are in the Unnatural Selection quest dimension etc etc if you agree to do this I will list the scenes needed on the message board Thank you
>>
No. 129763 ID: 34fb21

>>129762
By message board I meant discussion board
https://tgchan.org/kusaba/questdis/res/129753.html
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No. 129770 ID: 301982

>>129762
You seem inexperienced with this sort of thing, so you should know it's generally considered pretty rude to ask for free art from someone like that, even if you're already their personal friend, which currently you aren't. Drawing updates for other people's quests is the kind of thing Lagotrope charges money for to earn his living.
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No. 129771 ID: 36980e

Chronos, Lagotrope makes art for a living. What you're asking them basically amounts to "do most of the work so I can leech of your success for free". I can't claim to know how Lagotrope feels about this (I'm guessing flattered but uncomfortable), but I can point out that you're coming off as an entitled narcissist.
>>
No. 129772 ID: 03ff03

>>129771
I was just asking since it is his own quest I am entering and it isn’t like they haven’t done artwork for others before
>>
No. 129773 ID: 301982

>>129772
The times Lago's done art for other people before, he either 1) enjoyed their work already, had a good relationship with the person and was happy to give them something as a gift, or 2) got paid to do it.

Now, you come across to me as just someone who's overenthusiastic and doesn't know any better, but listen: when you don't have a relationship with someone besides being a fan of their work, coming up to them and asking to get something substantial like artwork for free means either you don't think their time and skill is worth anything, or that you think you're so amazing that they should be happy just to be associated with you. So either you're being egotistical or you're being insulting, or both.

In any case, you're jumping the gun. Try starting your quest first, getting your main character's abilities and goals introduced properly, hop through some dimensions of your own creation first, THEN start asking people if you can hop into non-canon versions of their quests. Most quests don't last that long, so yours might not either, and it would be a waste to try and get that stuff done ahead of time. Your readers might also not choose to go in that direction. This is an interactive medium, you know? It's not a good idea to get too attached to long-term plans.
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No. 129775 ID: 34fb21

>>129773
Actually lagotrope is fine with me hopping into their quests just not canon for them which of course was why I was asking if they wished to draw their own settings or what not but I admit you do have a point yes I am new to this but it isn’t my first time making stories I would suggest you read the quest I’m working on your critique would be appreciated if You wish but note I am not overly confident with myself my world creations etc. are bursting though if you feel like I should work on something else...
>>
No. 129776 ID: 5fc3a0

>>129775
To be clearer, while I am saying you're free to use my settings in whatever quests/stuff you make, I've got a lot of things on my plate currently and don't have the time to draw extra side things like this.
>>
No. 129778 ID: 34fb21

>>129776
Alright well I’m going to work on something else to get more established before I go dimension jumping
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No. 129877 ID: 4b6868
File 156266157568.png - (958.10KB , 877x278 , GTA-V-Crew.png )
129877

>>123801

Sorry Wiggler but it has been a year so I feel like I can do a shameless plug for my crew now.

Also this is my first post so correct me if I'm doing anything wrong.
>>
No. 131514 ID: 2c0ed8

I only recently began reading these quests and am seriously wondering how often it updates. No idea of any other way to potentially contact Lago themselves
>>
No. 131517 ID: 77e37e

>>131514
Try the official questden discord. Think the link's on the front page somewhere.
>>
No. 131520 ID: b1b4f3

>>131517
Not yet, but here's the link from the thread in /general/
https://discord.gg/Fh5zMTX
>>
No. 131944 ID: cf46df

Just thought you all might want to be alerted: it was two years ago today when we lost Likol.
>>
No. 131947 ID: 465a14

>>131944
I appreciate your emotional investment in Likol, but I'd like to mention his original appearance and death was a fair while ago at the end of the Asteroid Intermission. I bring it up because I'm not really sure how to feel about the part of UnSe devoted to Likol- after all, we already knew what was going to happen, and to me it felt more like getting to see more of Likol and what he did before his sacrifice than a loss.

Also, even disregarding all that, I'm glad you reminded me because now I'm remembering the times Likol had with Okei. Fun times.
>>
No. 131949 ID: a0dfd2

>>131947

Good times were had by all, even if some of us won't admit to it.
>>
No. 131960 ID: e01c2f

So I just got done reading through all of AsteroidQuest and the last thread appears to be in the grave yard. Used CTRL+F to search this thread for mentions of that to see what is up and didn't get anything, but I'm probably just bad at it. What's going on with that? Is the quest dead or was just that thread thrown out cause Lago didn't like where it was going? Sorry if this has already been answered.
>>
No. 131962 ID: 1d7c77

>>131960
Don't panic about things being in the graveyard, they just go there automatically when they haven't been updated in a certain period of time. Quests get brought back from there into activity again all the time. Plenty of Lago quest threads have been there and back before.
>>
No. 131963 ID: e01c2f

>>131962
Oh okay, good to know! Checking the dates that makes a lot of sense. Hope to see it back soon then!
>>
No. 133565 ID: bcda15

>>127490
Send all Salaki NORTH
>>
No. 135179 ID: 470289
File 161654864558.png - (67.02KB , 1200x1600 , Luvi - trout.png )
135179

Some relevant patreon stuff. I wrote this to accompany a Luvi story I wrote that you can read here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/luvi-winning-of-48193798

The Ramble

The thing about Luvi is that in a different world she would the main character.



Originally when I was brainstorming for Rogue the story was going to be Luvi being kicked out of her hive and going on a quest to find a new hive. It was going to be a comedy, and be about the misadventures of a rogue trying to find the one in a million chance of the hive that's just right for her, growing along the way. Luvi still went on this quest in the current story but despite maturing she didn't grow. I do think there's a difference there.



I think Luvi will be revealed as an interesting foil to Mac since Suggestors seem to want her to stick around. But even more importantly, Luvi is very fun to plan developments for and I have a lot in store for her. Some will even be good, I promise.



Luvi isn't the main character of Rogue anymore, but she might fit even better in the narrative as a deuteragonist. One who's been around the block a few times but hasn't been changed by it, and maybe even can't be. The rogue experience seen through the brightest lens possible. One who's been around the block a few times but hasn't been changed by it, and maybe even can't be. I guess we'll see how it turns out.



Luvi Fun Facts

She is a barred lawyer, though only for space and satellite related law.

She is 53 years old (Went rogue at 14, and moved to Queenwood approximately 10 years before she met Mac).

She is homoromantic and asexual. She does love cuddling though, and her 'type' is big soft girls.

Her crew and ship is based off the album French Kiwi Juice by FKJ.



Extra Stuff

Some songs I think fit her well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cno20onK9dY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFtYWAudpFA
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No. 135184 ID: 9a2966

>>135179
Nice writeup. Looking forward to see more of the quest.
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