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File 125158429324.jpg - (157.81KB , 786x559 , Blacksoul.jpg )
1631 No. 1631 ID: 1f5d37

I guess this is a better idea than shitting up the main quest thread.

To answer questions:

Zorsuz is a stereotypical "Warlock." He lives in a cold stone tower and spends most of his time reading tomes or doing magical experiments. When someone wants to become an Adept of his, what he takes seems engineered to cause strife and trouble. Even his "boons" tend to blow up in people's faces/not come out like things expect.

There are 5 major species on the planet, not counting wizard's constructs they are:

Ophians: Spikesby has heard that they were originally constructs, but somehow freed themselves.

Ravians: A very populous species, they tend to look down on other species and have as little to do with wizards and magic as possible.

Gour: Have an affinity for both magic and technology, and tend to be traders, merchants and diplomats.

Blockheads: This profligate race of morons spread like a plague. They are extremely stupid.

Golden: The Golden almost went extinct during the wizard's war, and now very few exist. They are all Adepts, and can magically fuse separate creatures together to make horrible, mute monstrosities that they can command called Halflings. People pretty much kill them if they think they can get away with it.

There are also a lot of magical creatures everywhere. Magical creatures are made by the wizards, and can't reproduce on their own. One particular wizard designed each species of magical creature.
Expand all images
>>
No. 1632 ID: 64f8ae

I gotta say I'm really loving it so far, the setting is great. Are you ever in IRC?
>>
No. 1633 ID: 1f5d37

I don't really use IRC. I basically just do this and read Quest a lot.
>>
No. 1634 ID: 1f5d37

>>1632
Oh, should I just keep going in the same thread, or should I do a new one next time? It takes 100 post for archive, right?
>>
No. 1636 ID: 64f8ae

Yeah, they start getting unstable around a hundred posts.
>>
No. 1637 ID: 789c25

>>1634
Things get archived when someone archives them. There should be plenty of room in the current thread for another session.

Also,
>They are all Adepts
>all
absolutes like that tend to be a bad idea, unless there's a very compelling reason for it. Just sayin'.

>One particular wizard designed each species of magical creature.
Like, each species is designed by one wizard, but the wizard designing one species may not be the wizard who developed another, or all species are designed by the same wizard?
>>
No. 1638 ID: 43d730

>>1637
What about the snikts?
We've seen two varieties of them so far, under the control of different warlocks.
Do they have a servitor exchange program or something?
>>
No. 1639 ID: 1f5d37

>>1637
As soon as a Golden is born, they are brought to a wizard and made an Adept. They feel that there is no reason not to use magic, no matter what the wizards charge, because otherwise the Golden could easily be wiped out. Besides, magic makes you strong. Other than among the Golden, Adepts tend to be very uncommon.

There could possibly be some that aren't Adepts, but this is just the general information sort of statement.

Let me clarify the second part:

Xix Ryxix invented the Snikt, for instance. He manually makes each one. That is why they have blade arms (like him) and can store things in their gullet (like he does).

Other wizards have made other sorts of magical creatures that aren't snikts.
>>
No. 1640 ID: 43d730

>>1638
"I'd like to trade you some meatshields for things that jump on faces and cause pain. Interested?"
>>
No. 1644 ID: 1f5d37

>>1638
Basically, yes. The few remaining wizards all stay far away from each other after the war ended, but they still communicate with each other and trade servants as a show of continuing goodwill.

There are three families of snikts: Stabtails, Bitefaces, and Chophands. Ryxix usually only gives Bitefaces to the other wizards, though.
>>
No. 1645 ID: 43d730

>>1644
Is the giant sandworm thing Xix's original form?
>>
No. 1646 ID: bffa2a

>>1634

Yes, use the thread at least until it reaches 300. They work swell to that, not that I have noticed any problems even beyond that. It also ensures the archive dosen't clutter too much.
>>
No. 1648 ID: 1f5d37

I'll totally keep it in the same thread, then, until I hit 300 posts or so.

>>1645
No one knows. None of the wizards look like any of the normal species, so it could have been that they were always like they are now, or it could be that they have altered their own bodies.

They live forever, and it is understood that normal creatures are powerless against them, although they have the power to kill one another.

It is rumored that one has died since the war ended, and that it was killed by mortal creatures. There are 11 wizards total.

Also, I have a worldmap. Do you want me to post it, or would you rather just find out the geography as you travel?
>>
No. 1650 ID: bffa2a

>>1648

Surprise is the salt of quests. Keep as many mysteries as you can until Spikey finds about them itself. Although map of the world is usually easy to get this is post apocalyptia so it might not be.
>>
No. 1651 ID: 43d730

>>1648
Yeah, just general knowledge stuff.

What are the reputations of the other wizards?
>>
No. 1652 ID: 1f5d37

>>1650
>>1651
I thought this thread would be useful so I never have to infodump during the quest, because I hate infodumps.

I'll give you the wizards' names and a little bit about where they live. Spikesby doesn't really know their reputations.

Moriga the Ice Queen lives on the northernmost peninsula, on the coast.

The Lord of Marvels lives in a fertile prarie

Arcus Soulfire lives in a bustling city

Xix Ryxix lives in the Desert of Ruin

Zorsus Blacksoul lives on the edge of the Sea of Oblivion.

Kzaara the Devourer lives in a fertile river valley.

Radia The Glorious lives atop a mountain of glass.

Flails Breaker lives on the coast in a rocky cragland.

The Queen of Sorrow lives in a dead and barren land.

and Flare Goldlust lives in a mountain fastness.
>>
No. 1653 ID: 43d730

>>1652
If snikts were made by Xix, and spikesby is a snikt, then why is he surprised by Xix?
Unrelatedly, what other kinds of wizard's constructs is our slicy protagonist familiar with?
>>
No. 1654 ID: 1f5d37

Oh, I forgot Childless Meg, who lives in a poisonous swamp.

>>1653
When a magical creature is made, he imprints on the wizard he serves and they have kind of a bond. A wizard knows when his servants are killed, for instance (if you hadn't figured that out from the last chapter).

If you are making a creature to give to someone else, you don't want it to bond with you. Essentially, Spikesby was created "turned off" and Blacksoul "turned him on" and made him his servant when he got him. He "came to life" when Blacksoul bound him.

Also, a wizard can choose to make some of their creatures "free range" where they aren't bound to anybody. Some wizards have even made creatures like the rock goblins and released the entire species. Once they have no connection to magic whatsoever, and as long as they are physically capable, they will be able to reproduce and become viable on their own. This could never happen with Snikts though, because they have no gender.
>>
No. 1663 ID: 64f8ae

Does the Gour have two fingers and a thumb? I'm doing fanart.
>>
No. 1687 ID: 1f5d37

Yes, two fingers and a thumb.

I don't know if this was explicit, but the lens is only on one side of the face. It is much taller than the top of his head too. His other eye is covered up by the mask.
>>
No. 3312 ID: 15f6d6

>>The Sea of Oblivion may be a 'sea' of antimagic, and this 'creature' is some thing that lives and thrives in it.
Or maybe it was once a normal creature, turned by the antimagic into... that.

>>Perhaps, being creatures that have strong ties to magic, Spikesby and Glory feel uncomfortable around it because it is basically the exact opposite of everything they've ever known?

>>Does this seem logical to Spikesby or Glory at all?

ID: 276781, I feel that I should reward your clever conjecture. Please post here for what kind of art or thing you might want.
>>
No. 3314 ID: 276781

>>313112
I'm terrible at this sort of thing... uh, how about a drawing of Spikesby's first birthday party (after developing a soul,) with all his friends there, eating cake?
"Friends," assuming that everyone Spikesby has met who hasn't tried to kill him count as "friends."
You could have Zorsuz and Xix there, if they'd be able to behave themselves and not be bitter about the whole soul thing.

That way, no matter what happens in the quest, there's some sort of happy end in some alternate reality. Besides, Xix eating cake would probably look funny.
>>
No. 3317 ID: 15f6d6

>>313114
It shall be done.
>>
No. 5552 ID: 15f6d6
File 125706252283.jpg - (119.47KB , 700x700 , GuardLady.jpg )
5552

Here is the ref sheet for Flails Breakers's Battle Beasts and Moaning Ladies.

They don't appear later, so I thought I'd go ahead a post them somewhere because I drew them and all.
>>
No. 5601 ID: 15f6d6
File 125721544511.jpg - (71.66KB , 750x750 , SkysFreakyBugface.jpg )
5601

Here's a closeup of Sky's freaky bug face.
>>
No. 5812 ID: 15f6d6
File 125764870786.jpg - (218.13KB , 750x707 , The Item.jpg )
5812

So, Spikesby was supposed to get horribly injured after showing Flails Breaker the item. I didn't expect the barf and run technique, and your quick thinking puts him at an advantage for the start of the next chapter!

Here is bonus content. This is what Radia had Spikesby deliver. It reads:

>"Dear Flails, Do you see my perfect ass and breasts? Your filthy monster hands will never ever touch them. Love, Radia the Glorious.
>>
No. 5814 ID: 43d730

>>315612
>trollpinup.jpg

One of these days, we're going to have to figure out why magical power is so tied in with fucked-in-the-head-ness.
>>
No. 5815 ID: bd36a1

>>315401
delicious bug face

>>315612
so yandere
>>
No. 5817 ID: 4d3daa

I love Bitequest so much.
>>
No. 5820 ID: af3e6d

>>315612
Just gotta say, I really like the more dynamic poses in the more recent chapters.
>>
No. 5823 ID: 15f6d6

>>315620
Thanks! It takes longer, but I think they look better too. No more lazy art.
>>
No. 9222 ID: 96d52a

So, this Blacksoul guy.

Is he a subversion of all the magic badguy tropes he displays, or is he a rare and deadly double subversion?
>>
No. 9223 ID: e75a2f

I think Zorus is a personification of the concept 'Necessary Evil'.

All the bad things one does to reach an eventual good outcome, in this case beating back the Sea of Oblivion.
>>
No. 9224 ID: 8ecfd4

Is Zorsuz little habit of making boons and adepts regret their decision some sort of grand plan of his or just normal dickery? Like he's trying to get people to stop relying on magic to do stuff and make sure they become independant from the wizards.

That's probably a bit to plot relevant to reaveal though. I got another one though. What do people usually ask him for?
>>
No. 9226 ID: 96d52a

>>319024

It may be asking him for stuff at all that bothers him. He seems to dick around with people who want something from him, but also "prizes those few souls he was given freely". That explains why he helped our mothy girl: she didn't say "I want X in exchange for Y", she just said "take my lust, please!" and he did.

Judging from his key position and his attitude, I'm guessing he's a fan of people doing things for themselves. Being gung-ho for self-determination may also explain why he's more powerful magically: "blacksoul" may not refer to evil, but to strength. Black is the strongest colour and he's the strongest wizard (or so seems the impression), which is why he's the one out here doing the most to hold back the sea of oblivion.
>>
No. 9269 ID: 9891a9

I miss Sky's original colours and dislike this railroading, despite the fact that it means she now has it easier to stay out of sight and thus a good thing. :C
>>
No. 9272 ID: 15f6d6

You guys have no idea how much it pleases me that my questdis thread is being used. I am so happy that people seem to enjoy my quest, and that it has material in it that is worth discussing.

I don't want to reveal information that should be figured out, but I'll point a couple of things out.

>Blacksoul is the most powerful.

There is no indication that this is true. Sky only knows that he is more magicky than either Breaker or Soulfire. There are still six other wizards. Blacksoul also said that Breaker was a better transmuter than he was.

>So what is Zorsuz's deal, anyways?

There are relevant textual clues, as well as some clues in the "story" image, that it seems no one picked up on.

>What do people usually ask for?

Most people who go to a wizard usually ask to become adepts. Others might need a cure for some personal problem, either selflessly (My wife is dying and no medicine will cure her) or selfishly (the woman I love doesn't even know I exist. I'll get a spell/potion to make her love me!)

If you live in this general geographic region, your only choices for wizardly aid are either Blacksoul, Ryxix, or Childless Meg. Blacksoul is really the best option out of the three, as will become readily apparent in the near future.

>The Railroading Colorchange/Why did Blacksoul help Sky?

These two things are tied closely together. As Blacksoul explicitly said, he helped Sky solely because he needed to know what she said. He changed her because he wants to use her as a messenger and didn't like the way she looked. Even though he helped her and fixed her problem, it is also apparent that he doesn't really care what she thinks or feels. I felt that giving the options, and then ignoring them completely, would make the suggesters feel the same way. How you felt when you realized your choices didn't matter is probably exactly how Sky felt.
>>
No. 9282 ID: e45b52

>>319072
I like Zorsuz, he seems like a cool kind of...guy. I would love to see a "Zorsuz stares into you soul" image again, it was hilarious!
>>
No. 9307 ID: e45b52

>>319082
Hell I'll do it myself
>>319106
>>
No. 9313 ID: 632862

...I think Blacksoul doesn't actually have a soul. He calls it a 'useful item'.

I think he sold his to gain power somehow... and regrets it. So he makes everyone that asks for power regret it as well.
>>
No. 10668 ID: cfad4e

I really want to have Sky ask these wizards more things, but I can't think of much stuff to ask.

"So... nice... castle made of windswept salt you've got here... Any bones about?"
"Why yes, every wall is supported by many bones. Salt alone couldn't hold such high arches."
"Of course."
"Indeed."
*sips tea*
>>
No. 10711 ID: 632862

If Spikesby can go into the Sea of Oblivion without dying... why is it so bad that it covers the earth? Seems to me that people might still be living in there.

Maybe the Wizards banded together to stop the advance of the Sea of Oblivion for more self-serving reasons than simply preserving the last remnant of the world.
>>
No. 10716 ID: cfad4e

>>320511
That sounds like something we should check out before we make any decisions. I mean, the one antimagic creature we found so far replenished itself by slaughtering everyone in a town and eating their souls. That's not sounding very cheery.
>>
No. 10812 ID: 354bcd

>>320511
It's a large area of antimagic, what do you think they wanted to keep it away for?
>>
No. 10908 ID: cfad4e

We should think of some long term plans, even if it comes down to "What do we need to learn in order to make long term plans?"

I'm kind of lacking in ideas, myself. I mean, what do we really have the ability to do? We can kill mooks, and perhaps distort the messages we deliver between wizards? Cause or prevent conflicts? But I don't know where to begin, there...
>>
No. 11035 ID: 632862

Here's some stuff.

1) >Ryxix is exceptionally cruel. He won't kill you outright. He'll have something more.. devious in mind.
Worrysome! Whatever it is, he needed that Golden as part of his plans.
2) Ryxix can tell when one of his children dies. This implies that he can keep tabs on them somehow. Spikesby is one of his children!
3) Spikesby felt 'lonely' when he entered the Ophian city, as if something that he'd always carried with him was missing. The city was warded against the influence of wizards. Thus, this implies that his tie to Ryxix can be broken safely. However, it came back when he left the city.

Take these all together, and it seems that Lord of Marvels is directing Spikesby to an antimagic creature so that his tie to Ryxix can be broken permanently. If that happens, Spikesby will be untrackable and won't have to obey wizards anymore.
>>
No. 11070 ID: cfad4e

>>320835
Ominous indeed. I had forgotten about almost everything you're pointing out here.

Unfortunately, without knowing more about the sea of oblivion, which in practice means actually going there, I don't know how we can actually change our plans.

Also, do we know that becoming untracable will make him immune to geas? And if he does become immune, will they just destroy the malfunctioning creature? And if he does become a free agent, what will that mean to who? Serving the petty monsters who rule what's left of the world might be the most effective way to stave off its destruction. Though, what can we say about that without knowing more about the sea of oblivion?

Is Spikesby sustained by ambient magic, or by magic that comes from the wizards? I guess either way, he'll be in trouble in the antimagic zone, soul or no soul.
>>
No. 12894 ID: 15f6d6
File 126903513393.jpg - (118.74KB , 900x750 , Meido.jpg )
12894

:3c
>>
No. 12895 ID: 1ac39d

>>322694
8I
>>
No. 12896 ID: 43ee50

>>322694
welp. forget everything else, we're staying with moriga and doing this forever.
>>
No. 12905 ID: 1ac39d

>>/quest/149745
morgia said that before the sea of oblivion monsters showed up a new wizard was formed every time an old one died. so their souls were likely filled with the spirit of magic. that's why Breaker, Flare, and Soulfire were so much more powerful for their age then any before, multiple magic spirits went into them at the same time.
>>
No. 12907 ID: 43ee50

Sky's flight is magical, isn't it? So she wouldn't really do well in the Sea. I think that when Spikesby heads in there (whenever that is), he'll be on his own.
>>
No. 12911 ID: ba7c76

You might have already covered this, but I'm going to ask this anyway.
Was there ever (at any point in time in this world's history) a race that was 'normal'? Or any kind of stable society with laws and some sense of order? Or has the world of BiteQuest always been nothing but high octane nightmare fuel?
because seriously, everyone in this quest is either a weird ethereal super-being or some deformed monstrosity, and there is no problem with wanton murder and anarchy.
>>
No. 12915 ID: 8ecfd4

>>322707
I think we need to get him the ability to digest food before we can send him in. As it stands now all he has for a stomach is a storage place for bringing gifts to different wizards.
>>
No. 12931 ID: 8b7db1
File 126911868141.png - (110.31KB , 906x933 , koc0180.png )
12931

>>322694
>>/quest/148488
><i>"I thought he'd get lonely so I had him find me some little maids to keep him company and neaten up the place. I wanted them to wear little outfits but Pete said no."</i>

...was anyone else channeling Elegant Nova of Progression? It's probably just me, but I can't get the image out of my head.
>>
No. 12945 ID: 15f6d6

>>322711
As has been implied, the world wasn't anything like it is now before the war happened.

Back in those days, everything was much more organized, monsters didn't run around everywhere, and the wizards didn't roll around with their dicks out doing whatever they wanted to.

I don't know what you mean by a normal race. Before the war, there were Ravians, Gour, and Golden. The Golden weren't masked adepts, though. There may have been other species that were either wiped out or swallowed by the Sea of Oblivion.
>>
No. 14043 ID: 7524b0

Apparently, if we had been consistently nice in our suggestions to Ryxix, he would've gotten together with K'Shaara and they would've started plotting. Which would not have been good for Spikesby and company.

If we had been more trollan, he would've cone berserk and killed K'Shaara, which would've led to a cascading wizard death scenario. Not good.

So actually we got the best result. Middle of the road ftw.
>>
No. 19091 ID: db5197
File 127823508880.jpg - (357.67KB , 900x740 , Breaker Sky.jpg )
19091

I guess I'll just put this here.

I was doing Drunken Requests last night and this one got made into reality.
>>
No. 19092 ID: db5197

Technically I could have put it in the baby pictures thread, but I'm not going to be that guy. :3c
>>
No. 19093 ID: 8e18cd

>>328891

I came etc.
>>
No. 19097 ID: 360168

>>328891
You should get drunk more often. Just saying.
>>
No. 19229 ID: 197650

Right now there would be several things that might worry us.
First of all, this "scout".
We need to analyse this propperly, as this could be a doomed spy, a subject that was meant to be delivered to us to manipulate our actions.
So we have to wonder, is our foe unwilling, or unable to make an intelligent scout/spy?
Or was this a bait?

If they are not intelligent, we have a large number of options, we can use doomed spies ourselves to manipulate their actions. This is assuming they are unable to make a surviving spy.

Alternatively, we can use surving spies ourselves to observe the enemy, if they are intelligent, it leaves for options such as alternative approaches to battling them.

If this was a bait, which I think is likely, it means that they are intelligent, and WANT us to use all these souls to attack them.
I suspect souls play a bigger part in keeping them at bay than we might believe at this point.
Assuming this is the case, genocide would severely weaken our position.

At this point, our best bet is blockheads, if they have souls, they breed like rabbits, they are the least useful to holding off attackers, and due to their repopulation speed, they would be the most likely candidate to survive having their numbers severely thinned out.

If our foe is intelligent, they are an even bigger theat than before. They have superiour numbers, resources, terrtain, and probbably a better understanding of the lay of the land of their domain.
We have to act cauciously, and know our enemy. Once we figure out who we can trust, and how they work as our allies, we can start to plan a REAL attack.
At this point there is too little knowledge to act, esspecially with genocide, as we will only get 1 shot at it, and even that is risky due to a possible connection to our safety and the amount of souls present.


Another question is, why does Blacksoul not simply make new subjects, mentally coded to persue the things that grant them souls, and imprint the knowledge that they must sacrifce themselves. Allowing for at least somewhat willing subjects. This might be too time consuming.
>>
No. 19230 ID: 197650

>>329029
Besides that, we have several powerful beings that may be useful to us, even if they don't want to help us. All we'd have to do is manipulate both parties and give them a reason to fight eachother.
If we can figure out how powerful our foe is, we might be able to divert some of their forces, giving them the impression a position is vulnerable, only to slaughter them.
We would be splitting up their numbers, which is deffinatly something we want to do.
>>
No. 20180 ID: 9bd27f

Hey, this is getting really good. I hope Sky gets her hands a little bloody before meeting Spikesby again. The whole "Oh god, I rescued, and helped to create my nemesis" thing is perfect.

I mean on the one hand, you have Spikesby, who quickly chose a path of confused virtue, willing to risk the wrath of the wizards to save lives (with some slip-ups). Then you have Sky, who is about to go full up monster as she sacrifices who-knows-how-many people to appease a wizard, under a vague hope that it might make things better.

Too bad Spikesby can't talk. I mean, the whole "What have you done Sky" speech will be a little undermined as a series of Waks and gestures, but still, I like where this is going.
>>
No. 20185 ID: 8bdb6a

In hindsight, it's kind of weird that there's a Blacksoul Q&A thread right here, but we bugged him in ITQ instead.
>>
No. 20190 ID: 197650

>>329985
my bad :3c
>>
No. 21503 ID: f87000
File 128131974717.jpg - (162.36KB , 1000x700 , creeture contest.jpg )
21503

Help design K'shaara's new minions and Moriga's protector. Draw a picture or write a description of the monster along with its abilities and characteristics.

Whichever of them K'shaara likes best wins, and whoever designs it gets a prize.
>>
No. 21530 ID: 283fa9

>>331303
Wait, is this ONE creature, or TWO? IE are we designing something that's K'shaara's new minion AS WELL AS designing Moriga's protector, or are we designing K'shaara's new minions WHO IS ALSO Moriga's protector? Sorry if I'm a little confused.
>>
No. 21532 ID: 8bdb6a

>>331330
Multiple minions, just one protector, as I understand. Two different designs.
>>
No. 21535 ID: f87000

>>331330

Yes, there are two things. Whatever sort of little miniony things K'shaara wants to keep around, and what they're sending to guard Moriga. So, two designs. One for a protector/guardian, and one for a general purpose type minion to replace ophians.
>>
No. 21539 ID: 197650

an animated statue that turns everything it touches into gold.
Except wizards of course.
>>
No. 21540 ID: 8bdb6a

Guardian - A giant floating eyeball made of steel and glass, which can inflict mental effects on whatever it looks at, or set targets on fire.

Minions - Anthropomorphic painted buntings.
>>
No. 21543 ID: c2c011

K'shaaras minions should be something similar to herself. Kind of like Yuan'ties, the snakey variant of them that is, with functioning arms and hands, so maybe more like Nagas or something like that. And make them have an overpowering loyalty to her and pretty much have their highest wish to be to get eaten by her so they don't flip out like the Ophians and rebel.

Morrigas guardian creature should be some sort of giant lobster thing that can fight off even Flail's bigger creations. And shoots laserbeams from it's antene, or maube lightning. Or possibly plasma. Something cool anyway.
>>
No. 21544 ID: e3f578

The guardian should be voiced by Keith Davids, nobody would fuck with that.

Also it should be
Really big with a lot of muscle and a skinny bony face that resembles a mask. It has like 6 normal arms for punching and carrying shit and four piecing pointy arms that resemble spider legs attached to the back for climbing and stabbing. Motherfucker would be a master with any terrain land terrain. Give it legs with retractable webbing for water enemies.
>>
No. 21547 ID: 197650

A humanoid shapeshifter made of molten steel.
Nothing can harm that fucker, anything comming too close would just burn to death, anything that could hurt him would just melt.
fuck yes.
>>
No. 21548 ID: 50e6c9

>>331347
Let me shake your hand... *fwoosh*
Let me eat that cake... *fwoosh*
Let me pet your kitty... *fwoosh*
Let me bed this waif... *fwoosh*
>>
No. 21549 ID: 197650

>>331348
we dont need a creature for socialising, we need one for foightin'
>>
No. 21573 ID: f87000
File 12814006745.jpg - (198.17KB , 1000x700 , Guardians1.jpg )
21573

The first guardian is mostly meat. It's large size and general heaviness will probably prevent it from climbing very efficiently, though.

The molten metal creature is probably not feasible. Although living creatures and some other sorts of constructs can be supported solely through magic, the energy this creature would require would necessitate a constant source of fuel. Its massive metabolic requirements and the chance of accidental immolation would probably make it more of a bother than an asset.
>>
No. 21577 ID: dad664

I'm going to TRY to sketch out these ideas, hopefully get them scanned before a choice is made...

I say stick with the Naga theme for K'shaara. Last time she went with a rather social race, very friendly looking. I think considering the experiences she's gone through in the past couple of chapters, she'd want to go with a more offensive-oriented minion. The kind which can handle their own in a fight. So some kind of very masculine Cobra/Naga. Make them fearsome looking. Fangs with the ability to inject venom, bony spines down along the spine...maybe even a natural bone blade at the tip of the tail.

Moriga's protector, on the other hand...something definitely with a water theme. Like think of a suit of power armor, where the junctions that hold it together are replaced with elemental water, and the armor is actually made of coral. Maybe add in some option which lets her ride it (like a mechanical bull) since she's not all that suited for land-based travel...what with having no legs.
>>
No. 21603 ID: 197650

Why not make it human with propper equipment, and of course a better muscle density and all that.
It could do pretty much anything, climb, craft, fight.
>>
No. 21789 ID: c6fa0a

Okay, this is pretty tl;dr, but if you want to check it out, go ahead. =D

Please excuse spelling, since I am lazy due to heat AIDS.

I can't art worth a damn, so I'm just going to post some ideas I wanted to get out there. This is assuming that even though Ryxix is pretty much insane, he's not stupid.

First, Moriga's protector. What are the primary duties of a protector for a wizard in this universe?
Provide information about possible incoming threats. Even K'Sharaa implies through her own dialog that this is probably an important option (“Besides, protecting you is really as simple as warning you”).
Either intercept and confront the threat (perhaps acting as a sacrificial distraction in the process) or remove the charge from harm by escorting them to safety.

Considering the fact that Moriga is a water-based critter, her protector should be equally at home on land or sea. The protector also has to be fast, and able to acquire and relay information to Moriga as quickly as possible. It should also be able to sense wizard and antithesis powers from a large distance, including seeing through any possible deceptions/illusions. The ability to provide advance warning is probably the most important ability it could have, as I doubt it would be able to do anything in combat against another wizard or antithesis creature. I'm also guessing that it's doubtful that Ryxix posseses the knowledge to create an anti-antithesis being (lol); that sounds more like a Blacksoul thing.

So far, I'm leaning towards a creature that can both fly and swim, though swimming may not be required. Water is Moriga's element and escape route, and she probably doesn't need help there. At the moment, I'm thinking a really big flying reptilian/insectoid creature.

In case it has to fight other magical creatures, it should use its superior perception to its advantage, and combine it with some deception of its own; the ability to generate illusory (or real) clouds or fog would allow it to attack creatures using the element of surprise. Ryxix loves critters with blades, so it should probably have some big scythe-like arms or claws.

Another ability it needs is the ability to “rescuse” Moriga if necessary. That may mean creating water for her in case she gets stuck on land, and/or being able to take her to a body of water (which is one of the reasons I'm suggesting giant freaking flying thing. Perhaps based on a manta ray?

So:
Big flying thing.
Capable of lifting Moriga and carrying her to water, or at least away from danger if she gets trapped on land.
Possibly has the ability to generate small amounts of water for Morriga, perhaps by drawing it from underground or condensing it from the air.
Has excellent perceptive abilities, both physical and magical. Perhaps a *lot* of eyes.
Has the ability to hide itself using illusions or other magical means. Should be capable of being invisible to most mortals/magical creatures while high in the sky, and extremely hard to see when in combat.
Fights using deception and superior senses to overwhelm lesser foes.
Speedy enough flier to intercept potential threats, investigate, and return to report findings.
Possibly telepathic, or able to send messages quickly in some fashion. Worst case, it should be fast enough to fly back to Moriga really quickly.


K'Sharaa's new critters:
Ryxix has always felt guilty that he was unable to protect K'Sharaa. He'll either want to make her creatures fanatically loyal and strong (to protect her), or weak enough not to provide her with any trouble from potential rebellions.

In either case, there are some things I think would be common across both cases. I think their physical appearance should be somewhere between reptile and insect – I figure Ryx wants to flatter K'Sharaa, but at the same time remind her of himself. They should have an inbuilt hatred of antithesis creatures, and an intolerance for Ophians (though they would obviously not hurt them if K'Shaara told them not to). They would be fanatically loyal to K'Sharaa, and view serving her as the highest calling in life.

If weak, the creatures should have frail builds which prevent them from using any kind of melee weaponry (like spears, *cough*) effectively, but still allows them to maniuplate and build things.

If strong, the creatures should have very tough, frightening builds, kind-of like Snikt body builders, but with hands instead of talons in order to build things.

It's also possible that the best society might consist of both of these types of critters – the weak ones being the majority of the citizens, while the strong ones are the “police force” designed to keep everyone else in line and worshipping.
>>
No. 22142 ID: c6fa0a
File 128247073563.jpg - (140.75KB , 870x740 , 128244575288.jpg )
22142

Argh, I go away for a few hours and we kill a dinosaur. We're awesome! XD

I'm willing to bet that was some kind of anti-wizard's magical critter. Let's hope we're not fucked now. =D
>>
No. 22273 ID: 197650

A large animated statue, the exteriour skin works as an exoskeleton, composed from whatever strong material is available in large enough numbers.
Stone, bronze, iron, steel, all valid options.

The mechanism is fueled by a single magical source, this provides the energy required for the interiour mechanism to move and in turn allow the statue to be, you know, animated.
2 magical gems would be in place where the eyes go, connected to the core.
Together they form a sense of observation and action.

The interiour would be a complex system of hallways and staircases, filled to the brim with boobytraps. this way a wizard could easily reach the core to de-activate it, to overload it, harvest energy from it or to maintain it.
Giving the statue a more varied use.

Possibly capable of absorbing energy through its weapon to feed the core, as a replacement for eating.
>>
No. 22753 ID: d8aa80

Work and school are massively interfering with my ability to update. I have a huge project that is due on Monday, but after that, I should be able to resume regular Saturday updating.

Question: Would you rather I go ahead and address some of the simple issues that Kallikissa can answer with some "miniupdates" during the week if I have time, or just wait 'till I'm done and go at everything at once in a saturday 'session'?
>>
No. 22766 ID: a594b9

>>332553
Miniupdates!
>>
No. 22792 ID: bb4c2c

>>332553
NO miniupdates, pls. It will ruin your habits.

You are one of the few quest author who still update in sessions instead of a step-by-step method with hours or days between each update.

Do your IRL thing, relax a bit, an then make your glorious return, Bitey.
>>
No. 22793 ID: f35afd

>>332592
I don't know if you checked the thread, but...

That being said, I think I exposited mostly everything. Besides, giant infodumps are gayboring and wastes of times during Saturdays. That being said, nobody's really replied.
>>
No. 22841 ID: c6fa0a

>>332593
> That being said, nobody's really replied.

Fixed. :D
>>/quest/228627

Glad I had the time to do a question-dump there...

I actually like the way you're doing the mini-updates - These infodumps don't need to happen in realtime during a session, and give everyone a chance to mull things over and make suggestions before the next bit of action happens. And it's extra helpful for me, since I may not always be available while you're running the sessions, so at least this way I feel like I can contribute to pushing the story forward.
>>
No. 22850 ID: 649123

>>332593
I enjoy and am interested by the miniupdate infodumps. No time to fully digest them and suggest right now, alas.
As you said, they would have wasted time during a Sat session. You could have put them here if people's sensibilities will really be offended by BQ updates that aren't during a session.
>>
No. 23135 ID: 383006
File 128442729383.jpg - (67.73KB , 740x740 , BlockheadAss.jpg )
23135

>>
No. 23136 ID: 383006
File 128442766981.jpg - (246.52KB , 740x740 , Datass.jpg )
23136

>>332935
>>
No. 23158 ID: 10c20a

>>332936
dem blocks
>>
No. 23183 ID: c71597

Hmm, how much time passed between Soulfire creating the blockheads and his realisation that he forgot to give them reproductive systems?

Or rather, how many attempts at creating life did he have to make before he remembered them?
>>
No. 23344 ID: 383006
File 12847918908.jpg - (146.14KB , 740x740 , MMM.jpg )
23344

Okay I got drunk and drew this.
>>
No. 23352 ID: ea2a3c

>>333144

That's a lotta dick...
>>
No. 23374 ID: 1578e2

>>333144
LMAO 2DICK!!!
>>
No. 23375 ID: 383006

>>333174
dem mantas man, dem mantas.
>>
No. 24057 ID: 6071d3

I believe it has been heavily implied that the Antithesis is basically magic, but of an opposing polarity. Magic and Antithesis annihilate each other and Antithesis can clearly be used like magic, though it seems to manifest in different ways.

Does this mean "Dreaming" weapons could also be made, similar in nature to the Antithesis spears?
>>
No. 24062 ID: c6fa0a

>>333857

Probably. It may be our only option if we want to avoid Blacksoul using a soul-nuke, but even then I'm not sure he could be convinced to abandon his current plans. He doesn't give a shit for mortals, really.
>>
No. 24094 ID: 6071d3

>>333862
Then we should make him give a shit. Blacksoul is quite focused on pushing back the Sea of oblivion, but has he ever stopped to consider if there's anything left to be saved? Just dirt, sand, and a few wizards who can't get along without a giant wall of death always threatening to consume them.

What would happen to the world if he succeeds anyway? Suddenly there would be vast tracts of unclaimed land and a bunch of childish wizards who've been couped up on a "tiny" peninsula for... however long that's been.

There will be a giant landgrab. And what if more wizards start showing up out of the blue, now that the Sea is gone? War. Blacksoul's intentions are good, but I question whether he has thought about the consequences of his actions. We all know which road is paved with good intentions.

I think he is consumed by revenge. I think the Sea of Oblivion took something or someone from him and he just wants to destroy it at all cost.

If Blacksoul really wants to save the world, then he can only save half of it. The Sea needs to stay. It reminds the wizards that they can die, that they're not all powerful. If it disappears there will be nothing to keep them in check and the cycle will just repeat.

Or Spikesby will do something ridiculously epic and save the day at the last second.
>>
No. 25464 ID: 383006
File 128781816812.jpg - (85.56KB , 600x700 , Sky1.jpg )
25464

Hurr whatever
>>
No. 25471 ID: 383006
File 128782408638.jpg - (140.71KB , 600x700 , Sky1.jpg )
25471

>>
No. 25473 ID: 383006
File 128782971787.jpg - (135.74KB , 600x700 , Blocks.jpg )
25473

I drew her confused because I think she would be confused in this situation.
>>
No. 25474 ID: 1854db

>>335273
I am confused as well. What are they doing?
>>
No. 25481 ID: 203fd3

>>335274
Shoving their big blocks at her
>>
No. 25482 ID: 5c501f

>>335273
Cockblocked. Or... blockcocked?
>>
No. 25487 ID: f82d85

They're obviously stacking blocks on her.

Hot stacking action.
>>
No. 25525 ID: a7a85a
File 128790310666.png - (96.07KB , 550x610 , stacked.png )
25525

>>335287
>>
No. 25531 ID: 383006

I want to apologize for the shitty fragment of update that I made today. The art was absolutely godawful, off model, and wildly inconsistent. I was totally exhausted and literally falling asleep at my computer at some points, but I hadn't updated in two weeks and thought I could just power through despite being dead on my feet. Let's try again tomorrow, when I'm hopefully rested up.
>>
No. 25532 ID: 9451a3

>>335331
Your quest is fine man. One of the best of the board. Very good art, too.

Wait, what do you mean you weren't talking about Sammy's Adventure...
>>
No. 25533 ID: 1578e2

>>335331
No it's too late, you've lost all your readership with your platonic lesbian mothgirl/horsegiraffe off-model shenanigans.
>>
No. 25542 ID: 1854db

Zorsuz: Why do your "boons" have such heavy disadvantages? Do you think power only comes with great sacrifice, and wish to teach that to your Adepts?
>>
No. 25545 ID: 2563d4

>>335331
The ridiculous amount of bickering in suggestions has put me off far more than iffy art ever could.
>>
No. 25550 ID: 6071d3

Hey Bawss. If Bite Quest ends in horrible, calamitous disaster, can we try again from the beginning of a chapter?

That would be super. Alternate history and time traveling shenanigans are the bomb.
>>
No. 25554 ID: bf1e7e

>>335350

Wait, has this entire set of shenanigans been because you were under the impression that that was likely?

Because that's dumb as hell but it would explain a lot.
>>
No. 25555 ID: 383006

>>335345
I am really sorry about that. I told people to chill out. Please, people, chill out. I don't care if they point out something factually inaccurate in another place, and I LIKE some discussion in the thread because it really helps me to know what people think is going on, which is very important, but PLEASE try not to argue with people, especially about their opinions or what they think is a better outcome in the actual thread. This thing is for that!

>>335350
Nope. One run. No saves. The problem is, everything the players do in a chapter does more than just potentially kill a character. It changes a whole lot of other things as well. My time lines are convoluted enough as it is.
>>
No. 25556 ID: 6071d3

>>335355
Darn. I expected a no, but thought I'd ask anyway. I have a... project in the works that involves said shenanigans. Won't be ready for another 8 months, though.

May I ask how you keep track of your timelines?
>>
No. 25558 ID: 383006

>>335356
I have a thing that lists what every important character does if nothing changes. Whenever the players do something that affects that (this almost always happens), I go through after the chapter and revise them all. I also move around all the moving characters and keep track of where they all are on the map.

That way I keep track of which characters know what, and where everybody is and what everybody's doing.
>>
No. 25559 ID: 6071d3

>>335358
Brilliant! I shall create a duplicate of the history(histories?) I have planned and see if this is more efficient.
>>
No. 25582 ID: bf1e7e

From the thread:

>Actually I just went back to reread it and LoM only contacted them once, before the wall went up. Ul Kerull is doing that soul-eating monster shit on his own.

He contacted them and set up a plan that Kalikissa said they are still following. Explicitly.

And even if Ul Kerull IS doing the soul-monster shit on his own (Kalikissa said that he completely remakes the people that LoM sends their way to make them 'better for killing wizards,' food for thought), he is still the one that LoM dealt with, the one that he struck a deal with, and the one that he worked out his antithesis tricks with. Even still, we don't actually know the extent of LoM's deal.

If Ul Kerull is sending soulmonsters through the wall, he is doing it for a reason. We already know that there is a wizard on this side of the wall who is in league (and yes, is still clearly in league at the present time) with them, and has set up a long-running plan that they are still carrying out. Assuming that there is no connection is reckless and foolhardy at best.

Also, Kalikissa never said 'only.' She said that that was how they set up this particular bargain.
>>
No. 25590 ID: 1854db

>>335382
"Before the wall is congealed, the Red Wizard came to us. He cannot touch the Wind or use what he calls the "antithesis," so he teaches Ul Kerull of the Sinking Sign how to infuse it into things for him to take. He tells us that he has always been for us, to help us make everything OK. He tells us the wall will happen, and if things come from the Sea of Dreams side we should take magic away. He shows us to change the bodies a little as the magic leaves them, to give them blood to kill the Wizards."

There is no evidence here to support what you just said. Honestly, you sound like a conspiracy theorist.
>>
No. 25594 ID: 6071d3

Why the Lord of Marvels is our friend:

1: An indeterminate number of years ago Marv assisted the Ophians in overthrowing their ruler, Kshaara. Kshaara is not a nice person, but is a different topic.

2: Since then NO attempt on another wizard has been made, despite ample time to plan and execute another attack. If Marv's intent were to whack the other wizards he probaly would've made another attempt by now, probably on Flare Goldlust or the Queen of Sorrows. Both are quite oppressive and it would be easy to move their populations into a rebellion.

3: Upon making Marv's acquaintance he showed nothing but concern for little Spikesby. Furthermore, he was not ordered to do anything. Marv merely tells him he can be free of the wizards' influence forever by journeying into the Sea of Oblivion. Spikesby initially refuses this advice and heads to Moriga, then the battle of Suri, then finally makes his way to the Sea of Oblivion, all of his own volition. Marv did not order Spikesby to do anything, he was the first wizard to let him do as he pleased.

4: Marv's contact with the Progenitors ended years ago. Ovruir's kind, the village eating, soul sucking blob monsters, appear to be a relatively new phenomenon. There are, so far as we know, a maximum of two and both have only made their presence known in the past couple of months. It is unlikely Marv had any hand in the creation of these horrors and, as best we can tell by his so far benevolent nature, probably wouldn't approve of their use, either. There is zero evidence to suggest he had anything at all to do with them. If anything, it implies that the Progenitors have suddenly launched their own plan, which could actually be opposed to Marv's for all we know. Lastly, we can't even be sure they were made by Ul Kerull either. There's nothing that direcly links this character we haven't even met with the soul eaters.

5: Marv obviously knew Sky was in his camp, yet made no attempt to force her into his company, and even politely returned Majestic to request an audience with her. While it was odd that Marv wouldn't say why he wanted to see Sky, this perhaps because he knew there were some Gentlemen hiding inside her and he didn't want to cause an incident of the very sort that ended up happening.
Still, Majestic's phrasing was a bit... strange... but that could be for reasons we don't know. Perhaps he was too cryptic and that freaked out majestic a little? He was fairly cryptic with Spikesby after all. May he just sucks at communicating and Majestic got the wrong idea? Or maybe he was desperate and came across a little terse? On the other hand, maybe he was trying to trick Sky into a meeting, who knows?
So far this is the closest thing we have to real evidence that he's up to no good and it's inconclusive and circumstantial at best.

6: >>335382
"He contacted them and set up a plan that Kalikissa said they are still following. Explicitly."
Where did she say this? I have just combed over all dialogue with Kalikissa twice. She makes no explicit mentioning of "All of us are sticking to the plan after all these years, too."

>[Ul Kerull] is still the one that LoM dealt with, the one that he struck a deal with, and the one that he worked out his antithesis tricks with.
This is also a rather large assumption. Kalikissa states that "The Red Wizard came to us" and that he taught Ul Kerull how to infuse antithesis into "things for him to take." No mention of regular deliveries, just a one time gift package before the wall congealed. Furthermore she even remembers giving him a piece of rock or ore, so clearly Marv met with more than just one Progenitor.

>We already know that there is a wizard on this side of the wall who is in league
At one point, yes.

>And yes, is still clearly in league at the present time
Based on what objectively verifiable evidence? Nothing is "clear" unless we have tangible, irrefutable evidence. Yes it's possible that Marv is getting his antithesis spears through deliveries, or it could be that he had a stockpile. We don't actually know. You are still making assumptions. The only thing "clear" at this point is that you seem to be overly suspicious or have an axe to grind with Marv for some reason. If he is so deceitful, why do you assume he is being completely honest with the Progenitors? It is just as likely that he was lying through his teeth to them when he said he was on their side.

>A long-running plan that they are still carrying out.
Again, no explicit mentioning of "we're sticking with the plan."

Why we should be suspicious of the Lord of Marvels:

1: It is actually quite strange that no further uprisings have taken place. If his intent were to make the world a better place for mortals it would make sense to overthrow the more oppressive wizards first first, then move on to the others. On the other hand, maybe Marv is playing the long game? This is still an unknown.

2: Marv seems overly focused on Kshaara for some reason. Either because she will set into motion a chain of events that will end in total destruction, or because she will put an end to his scheming. Probably by eating him. It's easy to see why he wouldn't want that. This is still an unknown, though.

Regardless of his intentions, he is quickly becoming a serious power player in the world. He's got an army equipped with wizard killing weapons and lots of loyal followers ready to throw down some thwack. If at all possible, this should be harnessed somehow.
>>
No. 25605 ID: bf1e7e

>>335390

>There is no evidence here to support what you just said

Except that everything I said is based on what we actually saw happen.

>2: Since then NO attempt on another wizard has been made, despite ample time to plan and execute another attack.

If the Lord of Marvels started moving against the other wizards directly, they would band together against him.

>Upon making Marv's acquaintance he showed nothing but concern for little Spikesby.

He told him to go into the sea of oblivion so that he could be remade into an assassin to try to kill the other wizards.

Kalikissa confirmed that this is what he sends people in there for.

>Marv did not order Spikesby to do anything, he was the first wizard to let him do as he pleased.

Blacksoul didn't order Sky to do anything, and you're assuming that he's evil. That doesn't fly, here. He didn't order spikesby because his 'friend of the little guy' persona is important to his plan.

Furthermore, the magic breaks down inside the sea. Ordering spikesby wouldn't have worked because the order wouldn't have applied when he entered. He had to convince him to enter of his own volition, and used his obvious mind powers to say what spikesby (IE the players) wanted to hear.

>Ovruir's kind, the village eating, soul sucking blob monsters, appear to be a relatively new phenomenon.

Evidence? What was the sea like three days before spikesby went in?

>as best we can tell by his so far benevolent nature, probably wouldn't approve of their use, either.

All of his 'benevolent nature' has been shown no more direction than establishing his own power base.

And, of course, there's the 'sending people into the sea of oblivion to be remade into assassins' thing that you're ignoring.

>If anything, it implies that the Progenitors have suddenly launched their own plan, which could actually be opposed to Marv's for all we know.

Except that Kalikissa mentioned present tense. She and Ul Kerull are still fulfilling their end of the bargain with LoM, and he is still sending people into the sea for it to be done. He is still working against the wizards, which was mentioned already as one of his deals with the progenitors.

>Marv obviously knew Sky was in his camp

There was no indication that Marv knew that Sky was in his camp until Majestic Thunderstrike went to see him. If he knew that she was there and wanetd to speak with her, he could have sent for her immediately.

More likely, he DIDN'T know that she was there until he mentalism'd Majestic Thunderstrike when she suddenly went into his room to ask questions for no discernable reason.

>Still, Majestic's phrasing was a bit... strange...

It wasn't 'strange,' it was a goddamn warning.

>While it was odd that Marv wouldn't say why he wanted to see Sky, this perhaps because he knew there were some Gentlemen hiding inside her and he didn't want to cause an incident of the very sort that ended up happening.

Or maybe, just maybe, he was trying to trick her (he explicitly suggested that MT NOT tell her what he said to her) because he wanted to pick her brain/kill her/both. Which is far more likely.

If he really wanted to speak with sky, he could have simply done so. Whatever he wanted to do with sky, he did not want to do in view of his 'followers.'

>May he just sucks at communicating and Majestic got the wrong idea? Or maybe he was desperate and came across a little terse?

He does NOT suck at communicating, and it is dishonest of you to even suggest it.

Furthermore, MT wasn't worried that he might do something to Sky, she was very clearly SURE of it. She came out to say 'he wants me to lure you in there under false pretenses, it's probably a bad idea to go.' There is no way for a non-retard to get any other meaning from that exchange.

>She makes no explicit mentioning of "All of us are sticking to the plan after all these years, too."

She mentions no breaking of the plan, and continues to go along with it and openly state her role. Whatever the plan is, it is still in motion and the progenitors involved are still aware that it is not complete.

>Based on what objectively verifiable evidence?

That he is still sending people into the sea to be converted into assassins? that he is still plotting against the other wizards? That he tried to do something that can be nothing but bad to sky for showing up and asking questions? That he is completely untrustworthy, to the point of even lying to his followers about being able to see the future?

Your entire argument is 'Blacksoul is really brusque and LoM was genial when he had something to gain from it so we should give LoM the benefit of the doubt.' You might not be aware that that's what it is, but it is.

>On the other hand, maybe Marv is playing the long game? This is still an unknown.

He is still playing the game he started before the barrier went up, so yes it is still a long game.

>2: Marv seems overly focused on Kshaara for some reason.

Because he managed to get her once but failed to keep her down, so now he has someone else in the world that might be aware of his treachery and put an end to his schemes.

>Regardless of his intentions, he is quickly becoming a serious power player in the world. He's got an army equipped with wizard killing weapons and lots of loyal followers ready to throw down some thwack.

Again

all of his 'good' actions serve no purpose which is clearly better for the world, the only immediate and obviously discernable result of his actions is the establishment of his own power-base.

But oh wait he doesn't agree with blacksoul and blacksoul is so mean =< =< =< =< =< so he must be a good guy despite there being no evidence of him having any -good- goals at all, and significant evidence that he has lied to every character with whom he has interacted.
>>
No. 25610 ID: 6071d3

>>335405
>If the Lord of Marvels started moving against the other wizards directly, they would band together against him.
No one other than Moriga had even the faintest clue he was behind that. And since we didn't even get to hear what she told Kshaara, we still don't know if what she said was even accurate. She could have mistakenly informed her that is was Soulfire for all we know. If he did it once, he could certainly do at least once more. Killing Xix would've been wise, but alas that didn't happen for some reason.

>Blacksoul didn't order Sky to do anything, and you're assuming that he's evil. That doesn't fly, here. He didn't order spikesby because his 'friend of the little guy' persona is important to his plan.
Incorrect. I have never said Blacksoul is evil. I merely believe he is wrong. Where did you get this silly idea that I think he's evil? Sure, he's a ruthless dick, but not evil. Not yet. Speaking of which, this may interest you:

>>329579
>>329583
>>329584
>>329591
>>329602
>>329613

Blacksoul appears to be a Big Bad in the making. If his first plan fails, and I have a sinking feeling that it will, he's probably going to go crazy evil and try to reap the entire peninsula or something. Needless to say, Sky should not be in the area when this thing goes down. As a contingency I believe it would be prudent to keep Marv alive at least until that point. If Blacksoul's plan doesn't work, then we already know how far he's willing to go. Even if Marv means to have the Sea of Oblivion overtake the peninsula that's better than the extremes Blackoul is willing to go to.


>Furthermore, the magic breaks down inside the sea. Ordering spikesby wouldn't have worked because the order wouldn't have applied when he entered. He had to convince him to enter of his own volition, and used his obvious mind powers to say what spikesby (IE the players) wanted to hear.
Again you are assuming he is lying to us by default. What caused you to think he was lying in the first place? So far it seems you just don't trust him because you don't trust him.

>Ovruir's kind, the village eating, soul sucking blob monsters, appear to be a relatively new phenomenon.
>Evidence? What was the sea like three days before spikesby went in?
Soulfire was surprised to learn of his empty city and referred to the creature as an "ill omen" and "deeply troubling." This implies it is a new threat. There is the possibility that the soul eaters have been covertly operating for some time and that they have only recently begun attacking villages, but this seems kind of silly. If they've been sneaking around for so long, why would they brazenly reveal themselves by murdering entire villages? That tends to get you noticed pretty fast. Unless they suddenly picked up the idiot ball and got sloppy for no reason then this definitely appears to be a recent development.
Blacksoul also seemed to learn a great deal from the specimen that was captured and, based on his description of it, that seemed to be first one he'd ever seen.

>All of his 'benevolent nature' has been shown no more direction than establishing his own power base.
Increasing in strength is a great way to take on superior opponents, especially when they outnumber you. Increasing power his base and being a benevolent goodguy are not mutually exclusive.

>And, of course, there's the 'sending people into the sea of oblivion to be remade into assassins' thing that you're ignoring.
I see no reason to address this because, quite frankly, some of the wizards do need assassinating. You want to tell me that Radia, Soulfire, Meg, Sorrows, and Flare (Flare is still a bit of an unknown, but doesn't look good) are good people? Good leaders even? They're monsters. Their deaths can only improve the lives of the people of the Peninsula.

>Except that Kalikissa mentioned present tense. She and Ul Kerull are still fulfilling their end of the bargain with LoM, and he is still sending people into the sea for it to be done. He is still working against the wizards, which was mentioned already as one of his deals with the progenitors.
You automatically assume that Marv is lying through his teeth about everything, yet instantly trust the word of Kalikissa? Has it not occurred to you that she may also be out of the loop? That she is not telling us everything? What inclincation would she have to reveal that they've turn on him or have made their own plans? What makes you think she would even know? Apparently she spends all her time wandering the perimeter of the Sea of Oblivion. She could be totally out of the loop. Each of the wizards has their own private agenda, what makes you think the Progenitors are any different?
You are utterly convinced that Marv has never spoken an honest word to us, yet you do not apply the same scrutiny to any other character that would have just as much, even more cause to deceive us. Like I said: axe to grind.

>There was no indication that Marv knew that Sky was in his camp until Majestic Thunderstrike went to see him.
Upon further consideration, conceded. This was hardly an important detail, however.

>It wasn't 'strange,' it was a goddamn warning.
Again, more assuming. Everything she said was rather Cryptic. Marv told Majestic that Sky was here to betray her, that she was going to do terrible things, and that he wanted to speak to her alone. Is it any wonder she was addled? It could just have easily been the case that Majestic was afraid he would hurt Sky, when in fact all he really wanted to do was talk.
I just realized it's also a little pointless to debate this issue as well. What Majestic said is open for interpretation and ultimately we won't know what the answer is unless we talk to Marv and learn of his intentions. Spikesby may be best suited to this task.

>Or maybe, just maybe, he was trying to trick her (he explicitly suggested that MT NOT tell her what he said to her) because he wanted to pick her brain/kill her/both. Which is far more likely.
The line was "That I should get you to come talk to him without telling you why." That could either mean "He wanted me to get you to talk to him, he told me why, but said I shouldn't tell you." Again, possibly because he knew there were Gentlemen hiding inside her. Or it could mean "He wanted me to ge you to talk to him, he didn't tell me why, and said you shouldn't know why."
Which is true is impossible to say because Majestic didn't actually reveal if she was told either. The statement "I was told," or "I was not told," is absent in there.
It's also a really shitty trick if he comes out and says "It is important that she does not know why I need to see her." He's a mentalist and, by your own assertion, one powerful enough to fool an entire species into thinking they have free will. You don't think he can't come up with a lie? It would be trivial to brainwash Majestic, who is one creature, into providing a very convincing reason that Sky should come talk to him. Instead he comes right out and says what he means.

>If he really wanted to speak with sky, he could have simply done so. Whatever he wanted to do with sky, he did not want to do in view of his 'followers.'
Or he didn't want the Gentlemen getting away and reporting back to Blacksoul. Or he's just an eccentric wizard with a really bitchin' hat. Or he's lazy. Or he's a little full of himself and thinks sky should come to him. Or maybe he doesn't go to people because he takes that whole "free will" thing too seriously and only lets people come to him. Or any number of reasons. Sure, it was a little suspicious, but we really don't know the answer.

>He does NOT suck at communicating, and it is dishonest of you to even suggest it.
He sent Majestic out with instructions to "Get you to come talk to him without telling you why." That's really cryptic and ended up scaring Sky away. Either he really sucks at communicating or he really sucks at lying. Maybe both. He couldn't be this grand manipulator you seem to think he is if his ploys are that easy to see through though. If he were a bad liar he would've been caught years ago.

>Furthermore, MT wasn't worried that he might do something to Sky, she was very clearly SURE of it. She came out to say 'he wants me to lure you in there under false pretenses, it's probably a bad idea to go.'
I disagree with this interpretation and I believe I addressed it a little ways up in this post. Wanted touch base on it so you didn't think I was ignoring it.

>There is no way for a non-retard to get any other meaning from that exchange.
Really now, name calling? There is no need for this and although I have disagreed with you. Even if I have been a little recalcitrant, I have also been polite thus far.

>She mentions no breaking of the plan, and continues to go along with it and openly state her role. Whatever the plan is, it is still in motion and the progenitors involved are still aware that it is not complete.
What makes you think she would tell us if their plans had changed anyway? Would it not serve their purposes to keep up appearances if they have decided to betray Marv? Again, you trust these total strangers implicity, yet insist that the other total stranger (who is a much snazzier dresser) speaks nothing but deceit.
I'm not saying they've changed their plans, either. I'm trying to point out how readily you accept someone else's, anyone else's word in fact, over Marv's.

>That he is still sending people into the sea to be converted into assassins? that he is still plotting against the other wizards? That he tried to do something that can be nothing but bad to sky for showing up and asking questions?
Addressed these earlier in the post, too. Didn't want you to think I ignored any again.

>That he is completely untrustworthy, to the point of even lying to his followers about being able to see the future?
Why are you so convinced that he can't see the future? I take him at his word because I think he's an okay guy and he's said a couple things that definitely sound like someone who sees the future would say. But perhaps he really doesn't see the future? Maybe he's just really, really intuitive or an excellent planner. Both of these theories would fit.

>Your entire argument is 'Blacksoul is really brusque and LoM was genial when he had something to gain from it so we should give LoM the benefit of the doubt.' You might not be aware that that's what it is, but it is.
Actually, my entire argument is "Blacksoul is really Brusque and LoM was genial and, so far as we know, isn't planning on murdering tens of thousands of people to settle some kind of personal vendetta against that big black mass because it's ruining the view, therefore we should try to help Marv first and treat Blacksoul's genocidal strategy as a failsafe."

>Because he managed to get her once but failed to keep her down, so now he has someone else in the world that might be aware of his treachery and put an end to his schemes.
Then why did he even put her down in the first place? This is highly illogical. Why would he go to the trouble of putting her sleep if he didn't have to? He must've known of the possibility of her waking up again, putting the pieces together, and coming to gobble up some revenge. There's the possibility that he maybe he didn't need to kill Kshaara, that maybe she was just a convenient testbed to make sure the spears acutally worked, but even that doesn't make sense. The Queen of Sorrows or Childless meg are a little farther away, but they would be far more convenient test subjects, especially meg. No one is particularly attached to them and if Meg suddenly kicked it it's doubtful anyone would even know for several years. Her territory is even close to the Sea of Oblivion, making her the perfect test subject: poorly defended (aside from the undead swamps) no one would miss her, and if it worked she could be tossed into Oblivion to eliminate all traces of evidence.
It is far more likely that Marv went after Kshaara for specific reason, one that was urgent at the time.

>all of his 'good' actions serve no purpose which is clearly better for the world, the only immediate and obviously discernable result of his actions is the establishment of his own power-base.
You say that as if the possibility of establishing a power base could under no circumstances be good for the world. Assume for the sake of argument that he really is a goodguy. Increasing his power base is a logical means of increasing the number of people he can help. The inverse is also obviously true: building up his power base means he can do more damage. By itself the action of making himself more poewrful isn't an indicator of good or ill intent.

>But oh wait he doesn't agree with blacksoul and blacksoul is so mean =< =< =< =< =< so he must be a good guy despite there being no evidence of him having any -good- goals at all
Aside from killing a bunch of petulant wizards that mortals have had to suffer under for who knows how long and possibly opposing Blacksoul's insane (even if it works, it's still insane) plan?

>and significant evidence that he has lied to every character with whom he has interacted.
I have yet to be convinced of the veracity of this evidence. Thus far your evidence seems to be "I think this guy is a lying sleezebag and I will adjust my interpretation of everything he does to match this bias."
I myself have not ruled out the possibility that he's a badguy. But thus far I have seen little convincing evidence so far. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt until he actually does something evil I can account for.
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No. 25612 ID: 6071d3

And, for those of you who may be wondering: no, I really don't have anything better to do all day than debate about fictional worlds and stuff. Yes, I realize that what's done is done and there's no changing it, and there's really no point anyway, since it's fiction.
But debating is fun, I have the spare time, and why not?
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No. 25613 ID: bf1e7e

Okay, I don't have a lot of time right now so I'm only going to respond to three points.

What Marv told MT:

Only an absolute moron could interpret majestic thunderstrike's statement as anything but a warning. If you choose to interpret it any other way it is because you are choosing to be a moron. Not wanting the gentlemen to get away only matters if he was going to do something that would cause them to do so, and there is no indication that he knew they were there. In fact, if LoM could A: see the future (which he can't) OR knew that the gentlemen were there (which he didn't) and B: gave a shit about the people he was amassing there, He wouldn't have sent an adept to attempt to push Sky into going to see him when she didn't respond to MT's message, because Sky would flee and release the gentlemen.

>isn't planning on murdering tens of thousands of people to settle some kind of personal vendetta against that big black mass because it's ruining the view

The Sea of Oblivion is observably worse than even living under K'Shaara or Radia. One of the two sources of information about the barrier has stated that killing wizards will cause the wall to faulter and the sea of oblivion to encroach. The person who contradicted this actively brokered a deal with the entities on the other side of that wall and couldn't live on the non-oblivion side to 'make things OK' for them. If killing the wizards doesn't weaken the wall, the oblivion creatures have nothing noticable to gain from killing the wizards, or sending soul-consuming monsters through the wall at all

>But what if Kalikissa is lying to us hurf durf

Kalikissa is The only powerful NPC that we have encountered that has no discernable reason to lie to Spikesby, since by the time she sees him she already believes him to be a part of their plan.
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No. 25618 ID: 383006

You two both make some really good points, but I'd like to Word of God a couple of things that haven't been pointed out:

>Lord of Marvels can/cannot see the future:
The only direct evidence against this is that Moriga said:

"What about Lord of Marvels? What did he tell you? He didn't tell you he could see the future or some other horseshit like that, did he? He's a fucking loser. He's a young 'un too, but he was around before the war."

>K'shaara being used to test the spears
This is something that no one has posited yet. Actually, no one has guessed at all why Lord of Marvels may have attacked K'shaara in the first place.

K'shaara was surrounded by a large group of magical creatures that she trusted implicitly and were very intelligent. It seems like a fairly opportunistic choice. It also seems that K'shaara didn't have any strong ties to any other wizard besides Ryxix, and it is implied that none of the other wizards really knew that.

I'm not saying this was his actual motivation, or that he was the one behind her 'assassination,' but I thought it was clever of you to guess it as a possible motivation and thought I'd point a couple of things in this theory's favor out.
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No. 25623 ID: bf1e7e

>The only direct evidence against this is that Moriga said:

I'm counting the ancillary evidence, like his utter failure to stop K'Shaara's awakening (if he could see it in the future, he would've known about Ryxix's presence and known that the only way to stop her awakening would be to prevent the attack in the first place) and his failure to predict sky's motivations (as he appears to have told MT that Sky wanted her to be a spy for her, which was not the case).

That her statements about him being a shady motherfucker were later echoed by Kalikissa (who, again, is the least likely to lie of the people we have engaged in conversation) certainly doesn't help his case.

>K'shaara was surrounded by a large group of magical creatures that she trusted implicitly and were very intelligent. It seems like a fairly opportunistic choice. It also seems that K'shaara didn't have any strong ties to any other wizard besides Ryxix, and it is implied that none of the other wizards really knew that.

I was totally going to mention this when I got time. I figured that it was also done because she was accessible (the other isolated wizards live in places like 'the top of a glass mountain' and such), and he needed some things that she had. Namely an army and the blood to empower them. The reason to keep her asleep instead of dead would clearly be so that she could keep bleeding and he could continue to have blood harvested to empower the adepts for his now-loyal army.

So I don't think it was just to test the spears, but definitely think that she was chosen because she was the easiest opportunity.

Now, back to the unfinished stuff from earlier:

>No one other than Moriga had even the faintest clue he was behind that.

Well, Spikesby does now.

And nobody did because it was an isolated incident. Nobody investigated in seriousness because it didn't keep happening. If he HAD kept going, he would have drawn more attention, and he wouldn't have enough of an army to deflect the retaliation.

>Blacksoul appears to be a Big Bad in the making.

The Lord of Marvels is a scheming false prophet, who moved (along with blacksoul) to set up a truce between all of the wizards and has thus far been the only one to violate it by making an act of aggression against another wizard. He made a shadowy deal with beings that secrete chaos and despair as a side-effect of their existence. He sends people into an area that will kill them under false pretenses so that they can be converted into assassins. If he is not already a big bad, he is certainly no farther from being one than Blacksoul is.

>If Blacksoul's plan doesn't work, then we already know how far he's willing to go.

Which is why the best option is to reveal other options to blacksoul, which Marv has had the capacity to do (antithesis and spears for study would have been a big help) but won't because it will hamper his own plans. And giving Blacksoul an alternative beyond reaping is a far, far better solution than letting Marv plunge the world into the sea of oblivion.

>Again you are assuming he is lying to us by default. What caused you to think he was lying in the first place?

I DID trust him in the first place. I was one of the people saying 'we should probably trust this guy, he seems legit' up until spikesby went into the sea. Once it was revealed that he made a deal with the progenitors, though, I started to think about Moriga calling him a shady motherfucker and actually scrutinized his actions. He came up sorely wanting, failing every test for The Deceit Question (which I will address after going through the greentext).

>Soulfire was surprised to learn of his empty city and referred to the creature as an "ill omen" and "deeply troubling."

That is not the sea of oblivion, that is something that came out of the sea of oblivion.

There is no indication that such things haven't been kept in the sea, biding their time, until the point that the plan was to be set in motion.

>You automatically assume that Marv is lying through his teeth about everything, yet instantly trust the word of Kalikissa?

The Deceit Question will cover this. Once again, though, I DIDN'T always assume that he was lying. Later reflection caused me to re-evaluate him.

>Even if I have been a little recalcitrant, I have also been polite thus far.

Deal with it.

There is no way to read Majestic Thunderstrike's statement and come away with any idea other than that she tried to warn sky unless you literally failed to comprehend the words on the screen in front of you.

>I'm trying to point out how readily you accept someone else's, anyone else's word in fact, over Marv's.

Deceit Question.

Also, you are extremely insistent that Marv and the Progenitor's deal has changed. What is your evidence of this? We know that it came into being, and know nothing of it changing after the fact. By all appearances, it is doing nothing BUT moving forward as planned. There is no evidence that anything about it has changed.

The fact that Marv's plan to kill the wizards also furthers the progenitors' apparent goals certainly doesn't help your case.

>Then why did he even put her down in the first place? This is highly illogical. Why would he go to the trouble of putting her sleep if he didn't have to?

Because he DID have to. See above. He needed an army, and he needed the blood to empower them. Ingratiating the ophians to him and keeping her asleep (remember, his stated goal is to KILL the wizards, not subdue them) allowed him to accomplish both of these goals.

>The Queen of Sorrows or Childless meg are a little farther away, but they would be far more convenient test subjects, especially meg.

Queenie lives in a fortress castle and Meg doesn't give him an army. Furthermore, the whole 'blood empowerment' probably wouldn't work with meg since her wizard power seems to be making everything around her poisoned and dead. Neither was a more convenient target than K'shaara.

>By itself the action of making himself more poewrful isn't an indicator of good or ill intent.

But the action, when taken into context of the fucking deal with the progenitors that you are so intent on glossing over you are going to give yourself an aneurysm is pretty fucking suspicious.

It isn't that consolidating a power base is inherently bad, it is that The Lord of Marvels consolidating a power base for the express purpose of murdering the other wizards so that the Progenitors can win looks bad.

The Lord of Marvels has explicitly lied about his goals to the PCs and his underlings in the past. Blacksoul has had complete transparency with his plan as far as his underlings are concerned.

Blacksoul's might have more immediate and obvious consequences, but Blacksoul is far more trustworthy.

>Aside from killing a bunch of petulant wizards that mortals have had to suffer under for who knows how long

And replacing it with oblivion. Fantastic.

>and I will adjust my interpretation of everything he does to match this bias.

And here you were claiming to be polite. Flowering up your insults doesn't change what you're saying, you jackass.

Did you not stop to think that I interpreted his actions and THEN settled on 'wow this guy is less trustworthy than anyone we've talked to except for maybe Ryxix and Radia?' He makes shadowy deals and lies to his underlings about them. He sends people places under false pretenses to accomplish his own goals. He is a shady motherfucker and that does cast doubt on his motivations when there is nothing done to prove them.

>I myself have not ruled out the possibility that he's a badguy.

You are going out of your way, bending over backwards, and employing every sort of doublethink you can come up with to avoid addressing the deal with the progenitors, and you are outright lying to yourself if you continue to claim that A: you are not a goddamn illiterate and B: Majestic Thunderstrike did not try to warn sky about Marv.

Next Post: The Deceit Question.
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No. 25625 ID: bf1e7e

okay, well fuck. Power flicker just cost me like a 75% done deceit question post.

Here are the basics:

The Deceit Question is 'What does this person stand to gain by deceiving me.' It should always be the first question asked when two sources give you contradictory information.

For example:

Blacksoul says that killing wizards will lead to the sea overrunning the area.
Marv says that it will not.
Both can be reasonably expected to know how the wall works, so one must be lying.

Marv has a predisposition to killing the other wizards, and is in cahoots with the monsters on the other side (there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the deal has been broken off). If people think that killing the wizards (which said monsters also want to do) will let the sea overrun them, they are unlikely to support him. His entire plan is contingent on saying that killing wizards doesn't break the wall.

Blacksoul doesn't really seem to give a shit about killing the other wizards, and is very safe himself with his powerful creatures, fairly extensive support network amongst the wizards, and (apparently) significant personal power. And beyond security, there is no other discernable reason for him to lie about the wall if killing wizards doesn't weaken it.

Since Marv stands to gain a lot from lying and Blacksoul stands to gain little to nothing, it is far more reasonable to deduce that Marv is the one lying about the effects of wizard-killing on the wall.

Running this through the contradictions in the quest produces an almost universal result. Marv almost ALWAYS stands to benefit from lying, and almost always to a greater degree than whoever is contradicting him. Kalikissa, for example, appears to gain no benefit whatsoever from lying to Spikesby about the progenitors' deal with Marv. In the event that Marv's involvement was under question, she would have a reason to (and that she might be lying about the wizard they dealt with to protect their contact HAD previously entered my mind), although she still would have little discernable reason to lie to Spikesby who was, from her perspective, sent to be a part of the plan and most likely an ally. But this most recent chapter proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the wizard who brought back the spears, and thus the wizard with whom the progenitors have a deal, is Marv.

There are actual legitimate reasons to distrust Marv. The most basic is The Deceit Problem. Take a look at what everyone stands to gain from deceit, and see which result meshes the best. Marv has the most to gain in every case.

He is a shady motherfucker.
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No. 25629 ID: 1854db

...Blacksoul said that killing wizards would result in the Sea breaking the wall? Could you point out where he said that so that I can continue to be lazy?
>>
No. 25630 ID: bf1e7e

>>335429

I recall it being mentioned, but now that I look I can't actually find it. It is possible that it is a misremembering on my part concerning the barrier between their magical fields being congealed.

Of course, if the wizards are killed their magical fields will recede (just as the sea will recede if the progenitors are) and there will not actually be anything to prevent the progenitors from simply heading on through since there won't be any magic to hinder them. No need for soul armor if the thing you need it for (the magical energy emanated by wizards) is not actually there.

While this does mean that LoM -might- not be lying about the wall holding back the sea, it ultimately doesn't matter because we already know that things can walk through the wall just by pushing hard enough.
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No. 25631 ID: c71597

>>335425
Blacksoul can in fact be even more expected to know how the wall works. After all he's the prime architect of it and the one who has spent all of his time since it was created right next to it. If anyone can be expected to know exactly how it works it would be Blacksoul.

If he says that one of the wizards dying a true death will cause it to fail, then I'm alot more willing to believe him over LoM. Of course I never really trusted the LoM from the start, he always seemed like a very shady motherfucker to me, one that couldn't be trusted. So I'm probably quite a bit biased here.

Still, if any of the two should know how the wall works it would be Blacksoul.
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No. 25632 ID: bf1e7e

>>335431

Again, I can't find any mention by blacksoul of the wall. Only of the boundaries pushing against each other.

I'm still pretty sure that he mentioned it at some point but I don't remember where and can't find it right now. All I can find are his references to the bubbles pushing against each other.
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No. 25635 ID: c71597

>>335432
I can't remember right now if it was in the intermission chapter or something Bitey said in the IRC. Might have been a response to what would have happened if Ryxiz had gone completly insane, killed Ksh'aara and then comitted suicide. It was pretty much summed up as "Extremly bad end." starting with the wall collapsing and then everyone died.

Then I think there was something about that if K'shaara had really died then everyone would have been fucked right then and there. Because all of the wizards need to be alive for the wall to work, and that's why they don't go into each others lands anymore and why they have some pretty rigid codes of conduct towards each other.

But I can't remember if those things are said exactly or where. Just that something about it has been said.
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No. 25636 ID: bf1e7e

>Then I think there was something about that if K'shaara had really died then everyone would have been fucked right then and there. Because all of the wizards need to be alive for the wall to work, and that's why they don't go into each others lands anymore and why they have some pretty rigid codes of conduct towards each other.

I recall these things as well, but ctrl+f in the quest threads themselves isn't fixing anything.
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No. 25637 ID: 383006

There is no direct evidence anywhere in the quest that killing a wizard will make the wall fail. In IRC people posited that it could cause some sort of cascade, but this was before they knew about the congealed wall, etc.

I never said this was true, just that it was reasonable. I wasn't going to tell people their theory was wrong, because that would be spoilers (assuming it is wrong). Blacksoul definitely never said it.
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No. 25639 ID: 1854db

So in essence... we really DON'T have any reason to think LoM is lying when he says the wall will stay up if a Wizard dies?

Something I noticed though: Kallikissa said that the Red Wizard visited them, but couldn't touch the wind. How did he visit them then? If the Progenitors can't leave the wind, and the Red Wizard can't touch the wind, how did they talk? was it like, right at the edge and they spoke to eachother over the boundary before it was too opaque? If that's the case then it's likely LoM does not want the Sea to spread. If that's the case then killing Wizards is a good idea *before* Blacksoul finishes his spell that kills almost everyone and destroys the Sea.

Everything hinges on that one fact. Will the Sea break the wall if Wizards die? If the wall will stay up regardless of what we do, then we can trust LoM because there's nothing he can do to make things worse. We need to ask Blacksoul, then somehow spread that information to the other PCs.
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No. 25640 ID: 1854db

>>335430
If the Progenitors leave the Sea they won't have any power. They rely on the Wind (the Sea's inherent antimagic stuffs) to do anything. If they come out of the Sea, even if it's nonlethal, they will essentially be abnormal creatures, like Spikesby is right now.
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No. 25642 ID: bf1e7e

>>335440

>If the Progenitors leave the Sea they won't have any power. They rely on the Wind (the Sea's inherent antimagic stuffs) to do anything

And they generate it. Without any sort of actual magic being emitted by the wizards to fill the space, if the progenitors get through the wall they will start generating it on this side.

We already know that they can send their giant monsters through right now, and they function just fine even WITH the magic to hinder them. If the wizards aren't spewing out magic, there's no telling what the progeys could slip through.

>then we can trust LoM because there's nothing he can do to make things worse.

Except that he still has that pesky deal with the progenitors that involves making the world 'ok' for them, which is nebulous but probably not good for any mortal anywhere.
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No. 25649 ID: 1854db

>>335442

"Yes. The points of emanation are our analogues, living creatures that have gained power over time. They are fundamentally different and more limited, but it is useful to think of them as Wizards of a sort. Magical creatures do not return from the Sea. They are swallowed and lose their protections, but scouting is unnecessary - I can feel each and every point of emanation.

I feel that there are several ways in which you could continue to be useful to me. I need souls, vast quantities of souls, and they are extremely difficult to acquire. The material could be weaponized as you suggest, but I feel that the protective material could be used as a weapon directly - a wall that crushes the antithesis from all sides, down to nothing - or coating my body and the bodies of my fellow Wizards and moving directly. It's a matter of quantity. I want to destroy them outright, but that requires so many more souls.

A soul inside of a living thing is not useful against either a Wizard or an Oblivion-creature. It is the material that can be refined from souls that I need. To create the coating protecting this creature, they must have killed thousands. The more I think of it, an assault is useless. It needs to be a blast, ca crushing wall of force - they must have so many more people than we do."


From Blacksoul.

Hmm. Yes, I suppose you're right that if the Progenitors leave the Sea they'll start spreading the Wind again. Question is, why would LoM risk that? He's a Wizard and spreading the Sea would kill him.

Maybe he's an idiot? Anyway, I think that he 'predicts the future' by reading creatures' minds and memories and extrapolating from them what they are most likely to do. He saw that if Spikesby was not ordered to go to the sea, he would be most likely to play along with the Progenitors there when they gave him the antithesis.

I have a question now. Why are people so interested in giving Blacksoul all the most important items in the quest? He doesn't seem to really care about anyone aside from whether or not they're useful to him. He's obsessed with vengeance. Are people convinced that Sky will be able to heal his broken heart or some bullshit like that? Spikesby should stay the hell away from him, at any rate. Blacksoul will take his soul in a heartbeat.
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No. 25650 ID: bf1e7e

>>335449

>Question is, why would LoM risk that? He's a Wizard and spreading the Sea would kill him.

We don't know the specifics of his deal with the progenitors yet. Perhaps there is something they can do about it if they choose to.

>Anyway, I think that he 'predicts the future' by reading creatures' minds and memories and extrapolating from them what they are most likely to do.

This is basically exactly what he does, as near as I can tell. Tell people what they want to hear and he thinks will get them to do what he wants.

>He saw that if Spikesby was not ordered to go to the sea, he would be most likely to play along with the Progenitors there when they gave him the antithesis.

There's also the whole 'magic breaks down in the sea, so the order wouldn't function once he entered' issue.

>Why are people so interested in giving Blacksoul all the most important items in the quest? He doesn't seem to really care about anyone aside from whether or not they're useful to him. He's obsessed with vengeance. Are people convinced that Sky will be able to heal his broken heart or some bullshit like that?

Most of the people who want to give the things to Blacksoul have one (or both) of two hopes.

1: By giving him these bits of stuff he (presumably) didn't have access to before, they might be able to convince him to enact some plan OTHER than the grand reaping.

2: They really want him to be able to obliterate the progenitors and get rid of the sea because it is a shitty place. Once the whole world is available to the mortals, they will even have plenty of places to live that are nowhere near the wizards OR progenitors/wind born if they don't want a part of their shenanigans.
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No. 25651 ID: 6071d3

This took a couple hours to write and although I did my best to comb over it to check for inconsistencies and repetitions, there's a lot here. So yeah, spelling mistakes galore, I'm sure. Incoming text flood.

>>335413
>Not wanting the gentlemen to get away only matters if he was going to do something that would cause them to do so, and there is no indication that he knew they were there.
I can only guess at this because we didn't end up talking to him. Perhaps he did mean to convert Sky to his cause? Perhaps he simply wanted privacy? I was banking more on privacy, but I could be wrong. It's unlikely we'll ever know for sure.

>In fact, if LoM could A: see the future (which he can't)
Just because the other wizards don't think he can does mean he can't. We have no way to verify this yet. It is rather curious that Marv sent Majestic out to tell Sky that she was here to betray her and that she would do really bad things. It may have been an assumption on Marv's part that Blacksoul may have some kind of horrifying plan in the works, but it also curiously accurate.
Marv's ability to see the future also seems to be somewhat sketchy. He can apparently see multiple futures, but cannot see which one will actually happen. It may also stand to reason that he is aware of multiple "presents" and is unable to determine which one he is in until observing something that confirms which one it is. But again, this is something we can't evaluate. We need more evidence.

>OR knew that the gentlemen were there (which he didn't)
We don't know this for sure, but upon reviewing the scene again, it does seem they were unprepared for them. On the other hand an overt show of force may have spooked Sky prematurely, completely eliminating the possibility of having a chat.

>He wouldn't have sent an adept to attempt to push Sky into going to see him when she didn't respond to MT's message
I don't recall any pushing going on. One of those Ophians on the outside of the tent merely reiterated "Lord of Marvels wishes to speak with you, Sky. Please return the spear to me." If they were going to force here they might've had a golem waiting behind the tent, ready to grab her if she tried to flee.
One of the Adepts did try to stop her, but Sky was also carrying an antithesis spear, which may be a precious resource; we don't know how many they have. When she started fleeing with it they may not have been trying to capture her, but prevent her from taking a spear.

>One of the two sources of information about the barrier has stated that killing wizards will cause the wall to faulter and the sea of oblivion to encroach.
This is untrue.

>The person who contradicted this
Actually the only person who's told anything at all on how the wall works, so far.

>If killing the wizards doesn't weaken the wall, the oblivion creatures have nothing noticable to gain from killing the wizards, or sending soul-consuming monsters through the wall at all
But they do. killing off wizards one at a time means they can take the Peninsula piecemeal.

>Kalikissa is The only powerful NPC that we have encountered that has no discernable reason to lie to Spikesby, since by the time she sees him she already believes him to be a part of their plan.
Lying is not the only form of deceit. Everything Kalikissa said to Spikesby (as best I can remember) would still be accurate even if the Progenitors had decided to set their own plan into motion. Simply refraining to give out pertinent information is also another form of deceit. If their plans had changed she would also have no reason to inform Spikesby of this.

>>335423
>I'm counting the ancillary evidence, like his utter failure to stop K'Shaara's awakening (if he could see it in the future, he would've known about Ryxix's presence and known that the only way to stop her awakening would be to prevent the attack in the first place)
This is as yet something I cannot account for. The only explanation I have is "I don't know." It doesn't fit the pattern I see, but I can't really get this to fit anywhere else. This may have because of circumstances we have yet to become aware of.

>as he appears to have told MT that Sky wanted her to be a spy for her, which was not the case.
Actually Sky gave Majestic the impression that she would be spying. "Don't tell [Moriga] what's happening and keep your eyes open," sounds very much like instructions to be a spy.

>That [Moriga's] statements about him being a shady motherfucker were later echoed by Kalikissa.
I don't recall Kalikissa saying anything to the tune of "But he's completely untrustworthy and we know it." If you meant "confirmed" instead of "echoed" then yes I agree: he is being rather underhanded. Having contacts in the Sea of Oblivion that can hand out jars of Wizard poison is very sneaky, but being sneaky does equal being evil.

>The reason to keep her asleep instead of dead would clearly be so that she could keep bleeding and he could continue to have blood harvested to empower the adepts for his now-loyal army.
Keeping her asleep instead of actually killing her would also prevent the Sea of Oblivion from advancing (assuming that's how it works), or it could be that his intent actually was to kill her, but his untested weapons did not have the desired effect and simply put her sleep.
Unless he was counting on Kshaara to wake up again at some point, causing everyone to flee for cover and possibly head over to him, it doesn't make much sense that his goal in attacking Kshaara would be to acquire her people as an army (especially if he can't see the future). Moving in on Kshaara's territory would give him away. If the the Ophians suddenly migrated to him after their uprising that would also be suspicious. Only now that Suri is in ruins does he have an army to command. This seems to be more of a fortuitous opportunity, rather than something planned.

>So I don't think it was just to test the spears, but definitely think that she was chosen because she was the easiest opportunity.
Actually, the easiest opportunity looks to be Moriga, who is the closest and doesn't have another wizard's territory in the way either. Moriga and Kshaara have relatively content and intelligent populations. Moriga's population may be smaller, but being quite varied, probably has more combat capable creatures in it. Even though she isn't as powerful as Kshaara, she could still probably bleed some potent magic blood.
Moriga is also a coward. Even if the attempt on her life was unsuccessful she would've just left to the oceans again, but this would achieve the same result (assuming the objective was not to test the weapons, but actually use them). If the objective was not a simple weapons test against a convenient target, then Moriga might not be a good target. Signs point to Kshaara being chosen for a reason, though what that might be is still uncertain.
Kshaara is also not weak, not a coward, and apparently enjoys eating people who have crossed her. The prospect of being eaten alive if found it is, I would think, a rather significant disincentive to mess with her. In fact Kshaara is perhaps the most dangerous wizard he could have attacked. She may be the only (at the time, anyway. Xix is definitely big enough now) who can absorb his power and kill him at the same time. Assuming the Oblivion advances if a wizard dies it would make more sense to go after any wizard that couldn't eat him in retaliation. If he had attacked Soulfire, Moriga, possibly even Blacksoul (just as an example) he'd still probably be fine because they couldn't kill him. No one would trust him ever again, but he would still be safe. Again, only assuming that live wizards is what keeps the wall from receding. If killing them doesn't affect the wall then Moriga would still be the best choice because, as I said, she's a coward and admits she's also the weakest of the wizards.

>And nobody did because it was an isolated incident. Nobody investigated in seriousness because it didn't keep happening. If he HAD kept going, he would have drawn more attention, and he wouldn't have enough of an army to deflect the retaliation.
2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern. It would be easy for the other wizards to dismiss a second uprising as mere coincidence or as other mortals getting similar ideas. Once one had happened it would prove to people everywhere that it could be done. It wouldn't be surprising if one of the other wizards experienced a rebellion inspired by the Ophians' success, though it would be doomed to fail without antithesis spears.
The other wizards also seemed totally unaware or uninterested by the strange weapons that made Kshaara's downfall possible. A third rebellion might have been suspicious, but a second would not have been outside the realm of possibility. The wizards know that some of them treat their mortals like shit. It would be unsurprising if one of the more oppressive of them also suffered a sudden dethronement.

>The Lord of Marvels is a scheming false prophet, who moved (along with blacksoul) to set up a truce between all of the wizards
This is counterintuitive. If Marv's objective were to aid Oblivion then it would not serve his purposes to help Blacksoul establish a truce and create congeal the wall. At the very least he should have been a passive participant or slightly uncooperative.

>He made a shadowy deal with beings that secrete chaos and despair as a side-effect of their existence.
I do not contend this point, but I do wonder why you believe he is on their side. Unless he has a way of surviving the Oblivion, which so far seems impossible for a wizard, then this would be ensuring his own death. Not a typical objective for a sneaky, power hungry, egomaniac. Whether his intentions are good or evil, it is far more likely that Marv is deceiving the Progenitors to acquire their assistance. Thus far

>He sends people into an area that will kill them under false pretenses so that they can be converted into assassins.
While his objective may be this, it is ultimately up to the individual. They can refuse to either go or they can go and then refuse the task. While by itself this method is more than a little devious, the end it is meant to achieve ultimately determines whether or not it is good or evil.

>If he is not already a big bad, he is certainly no farther from being one than Blacksoul is.
I believe his actions thus far have been somewhere between ambiguous and friendly. Nonetheless, the probability of him turning out to be evil is not zero. If he is a bad guy then yeah, he could certainly be big bad material. I just don't think he is yet.

>Which is why the best option is to reveal other options to blacksoul
This I also agree with. Blacksoul is ruthless and willing to go to unacceptable extremes to achieve his aims, but he is also very powerful. Any alternate solutions we discover will probably have the highest chance of success if we inform Blacksoul of them and acquire his backing. Still, Blacksoul is willing to go too far, so it would be wise to handle him with kid gloves.

>which Marv has had the capacity to do (antithesis and spears for study would have been a big help) but won't because it will hamper his own plans.
Or because he doesn't trust Blacksoul and it would reveal him as the one who instigated the rebellion again Kshaara, which is kind of against the rules. This would only make Blacksoul distrust him further and increase the probability of him actively working again Marv.

>And giving Blacksoul an alternative beyond reaping is a far, far better solution than letting Marv plunge the world into the sea of oblivion.
Of course it is. However this assumes that Marv's goal is to even do that. Unless I missed something you have yet to address the possibility that Marv also lied the to Progenitors and is just using them for his own purposes.

>I DID trust him in the first place. I was one of the people saying 'we should probably trust this guy, he seems legit' up until...
Until now you had only stated that you didn't trust him because he's sneaky and you don't like what he's doing. You had not yet revealed the reason behind these things. Now I can at least understand your perspective and reasoning process.

>That is not the sea of oblivion, that is something that came out of the sea of oblivion.
Which is also unimportant to the point I was trying to make. Staying behind the Sea of Oblivion is normal. We don't care about normal, because that means nothing has changed. Suddenly they've decided to come out now. What we should be wonder is "why?"

>There is no indication that such things haven't been kept in the sea, biding their time, until the point that the plan was to be set in motion.
And there's nothing to indicate that these aren't a new weapon being fielded by the Progenitors either. It's a total unknown. Even if they've been around for decades that is irrelevant because it wasn't the point I was trying to address. My point was that the behavior of the Progenitors has suddenly changed. So far as we know it is impossible for Marv to reliably communicate with them, if at all. This may be indicative of a change in plans on their part.
Kalikissa also only told Spikesby of the antithesis spears, the Red Wizard, his plans, and using the pure antithesis. She made no mention of what the Progenitors were up to. This may be because Spikesby didn't ask about it, because she didn't know, or because she was hiding it. We don't know.

>There is no way to read Majestic Thunderstrike's statement and come away with any idea other than...
This statement is demonstrably false. I read her statement; I came to a different conclusion. That is a matter of fact. Saying that I read her statement and didn't come to a different conclusion does not make it true just because you don't agree with or understand how I did it.

>you are extremely insistent that Marv and the Progenitor's deal has changed.What is your evidence of this? We know that it came into being, and know nothing of it changing after the fact. By all appearances, it is doing nothing BUT moving forward as planned. There is no evidence that anything about it has changed.
I don't believe I ever stated that the "deal" had changed, though if I did then that was an error in communication on my part. I instead posit that the Progenitors have launched a plan of their own, one that is independent of their arrangement with the Red Wizard.
The Red Wizard's deal with the Progenitors is "Make creatures I send your way combat ready against wizards and give them a jar of your blood to use as poison. In exchange I will use them to kill all the wizards and life will be just spiffy for you guys." Well that's the part we know about anyway. That's a far more enticing offer than "Do all that stuff so I can kill just one of them and then you guys are on your own again." Regardless, none of that has changed. Marv having plans of his own, possibly to betray them, or the Progenitors hatching their own diabolical scheme is not mutually exclusive to this agreement.
I was skeptical that Marv ever intended to stick with his deal at all. It seems more likely to me, simply because he is a wizard, that he deceived them from the start.
While you have explained why you believe Marv is being dishonest to everyone else, you have yet to explain why you believe he is being honest with them. So far as we know it is impossible for a wizard to exist inside the Sea of Oblivion and we have no reason to believe that Marv is any exception to this rule yet. Unless he's just an omnicidal maniac we can also reasonably conclude that he isn't suicidal either. It stands to reason that his plan is not in fact to have Oblivion overtake everything, but either destroy it or keep it in a state of balance. Both options would involve betraying the Progenitors in varying degrees.

>The fact that Marv's plan to kill the wizards also furthers the progenitors' apparent goals certainly doesn't help your case.
Although killing off wizards does weaken the Peninsula's hand, we have yet to determine if the congealed wall will weaken when wizards die. I'm sure you can acknowledge that a lot of the wizard aren't very nice folks and, whatever Marv is planning, they would probably stand in his way. In order to succeed, regardless whether or not he's good or evil, he will inevitably have to kill or incapacitate other wizards to ensure they do not interfere.

>Because he DID have to. See above. He needed an army, and he needed the blood to empower them.
Think I adequately addressed this a few paragraphs up.

>Ingratiating the ophians to him and keeping her asleep (remember, his stated goal is to KILL the wizards, not subdue them) allowed him to accomplish both of these goals.
The Ophians have only become ingratiated to him rather recently. If he were intent on killing other wizards it might've been prudent to use the Ophians as couriers between him and the Progenitors. Ophians are fully functional organisms that don't need magic to sustain them. They would be perfectly suited to this task, but as far as we know they never did anything of the sort. If they did we should've expected to see some antithesis spears flying around at the battle of Suri.

>Queenie lives in a fortress castle and Meg doesn't give him an army. Furthermore, the whole 'blood empowerment' probably wouldn't work with meg since her wizard power seems to be making everything around her poisoned and dead. Neither was a more convenient target than K'shaara.
Sorrows is, now that I think about it, probably a poor choice. Based Majestic's first interactions with Sky it would seem her minions have a tough time even conceptualizing rebellion... although they do understand fear. So okay, Sorrows wouldn't be a good test subject.
Meg, though. Meg doesn't seem to have anything protecting her other than the swamp. She also doesn't appear to have any "super wizard senses" like Kshaara demonstrated. She wasn't aware Sky was at her door until she knocked and opened. At this point we don't know how powerful she is, so if she's really strong that would obviously make her a bad test subject, but otherwise she is perfect: lives alone, is very introverted, lives far away so he could avoid suspicion if only because of the distance, and close to Oblivion for a timely way to dispose of evidence. It would be nearly impossible to pin the attack on Marv if it were successful, even if he had to use his own golems. Meg would make the perfect test subject to see if they worked, Moriga would be the perfect choice for when he means business.

>It isn't that consolidating a power base is inherently bad, it is that The Lord of Marvels consolidating a power base for the express purpose of murdering the other wizards so that the Progenitors can win looks bad.
We still don't know if this is his goal. Supposing his intent is too kill all the other wizards assumes he was being honest the Progenitors, which as I said before, he may not have been.

>The Lord of Marvels has explicitly lied about his goals to the PCs and his underlings in the past.
Certainly he has not told us everything, but since it's his secret plan I wouldn't expect him to be forthcoming with the details to just anyone. We can't yet make this call for sure because we still don't know what his goals are in the first place.

>Blacksoul has had complete transparency with his plan as far as his underlings are concerned.
Blacksoul has been honest so far as we know and I won't call that into question. However until I posted Blacksoul's dialogue up there I think maybe a lot of us had the wrong idea about him as well. He has been perfectly honest so far, making no bones about his intent to destroy the Sea of Oblivion. What he failed to mention is that he is willing to sacrifice all life on the face of the planet to do so, which serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever other than satisfying his insane hatred of Oblivion.

>Blacksoul's might have more immediate and obvious consequences, but Blacksoul is far more trustworthy.
This is something I actually agree with. Blacksoul is more trustworthy in that he probably won't lie to us. Outright deception just seems beneath him for some reason. However his methods are something I don't agree with. While it would be wise to keep his plan in motion as a backup, I would rather take a chance on someone we don't quite know yet, who seems friendly enough (though perhaps a bit machiavellian), appears to be helping people, and probably won't resort to exterminating all life to achieve his goals.

>employing every sort of doublethink...
I have employed no doublethink anywhere. Doublethink is asserting to two thing that are mutually exclusive to be true. There is as yet insufficent information to make a 100% accurate judgment call on a lot of things. Most of this stuff I am only 70 to 90 percent sure of. It would be foolish of me not to consider the possibility that I may be wrong. To make my decisions I assume that multiple scenarios could be true, then attempt to come up with a course of action that will achieve the best results in the most scenarios that I believe are most likely.

>Only an absolute moron could interpret majestic thunderstrike's statement as anything but a warning. If you choose to interpret it any other way it is because you are choosing to be a moron.
>Deal with it.
>that she tried to warn sky unless you literally failed to comprehend the words on the screen in front of you.
>you are outright lying to yourself if you continue to claim that A: you are not a goddamn illiterate
I have yet to resort to name calling or insulting your intelligence. It would be great if you could avoid that too.

>Flowering up your insults doesn't change what you're saying, you jackass.
I was not trying to be insulting. I was stating my perspective. Rude and insulting are two different things. I couldn't think of any other way to say it, but perhaps you can? How could I have phrased that differently so it wouldn't have been rude?
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No. 25652 ID: 6071d3

>Once the whole world is available to the mortals, they will even have plenty of places to live that are nowhere near the wizards OR progenitors/wind born if they don't want a part of their shenanigans.
I'm not sure it works like that. Based on how new wizards began arising as others died and more Progenitors just fizzled into existence as the Sea of Oblivion expanded, it seems more like there's some kind of natural phenomenon that keeps a certain ratio of wizards per capita.
Given that new wizards were more powerful than the old ones it also seems that there might be a net amount of magic in the world that is somewhat haphazardly distributed among them.
If all things were equal then I expect the Progenitors could easily achieve victory by standing next to the congealed wall in numbers of a hundred or more. The raw antimagic force projected by so many would probably be enough to bulldoze over whatever meager barrier 11 wizards could muster.
I think there is some very important information about how the world itself works that we are missing.
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No. 25653 ID: bf1e7e

>I have yet to resort to name calling or insulting your intelligence. It would be great if you could avoid that too.

I can't avoid that when you are claiming that statements like

>"He also, uh, said that you are here to betray me. That I should get you to come talk to him without telling you why. I told him I would, but, Sky, I would never betray you. I know you would never do anything to hurt me. I'd rather you accidentally cause the horrible things he said you would in my future than have something bad happen to you,"

are anything but clear warnings, absolute indications that the person saying them thinks that something bad is going to happen to the other.

>Meg, though. Meg doesn't seem to have anything protecting her other than the swamp.

There is nobody there to sway. She sort of seems to kill everything around her, too. Anything that could reach her would have to be a magical creature, but magical creatures can not refuse an order from a wizard.

K'Shaara, on the other hand, lived openly in a city surrounded by people that she got along with swimmingly. She was the only wizard that was really vulnerable to ambush.

>The Ophians have only become ingratiated to him rather recently.

The Ophians were ingratiated with him BEFORE THE REBELLION. There are stockpiles of K'Shaara's blood in his territory already.

>We don't know.

Which makes it conjecture, which is inferior to deduction.

>you have yet to address the possibility that Marv also lied the to Progenitors and is just using them for his own purposes.

It is very possible that he is trying to do that, but that is still ultimately conjecture.

>Unless he has a way of surviving the Oblivion, which so far seems impossible for a wizard, then this would be ensuring his own death.

Unless the progenitors can do something about it and that was a part of the deal.

>In fact Kshaara is perhaps the most dangerous wizard he could have attacked.

hahahahahahahaha no.

>2 is a coincidence, 3 is a pattern.

When there are 10 of you, 2 is a pattern. Furthermore, K'Shaara's lack of contacts and Rixyx's insane withdrawal actually kept K'Shaara's stabbing from becoming known. There weren't that many unconnected stabbables left.

>Actually Sky gave Majestic the impression that she would be spying. "Don't tell [Moriga] what's happening and keep your eyes open," sounds very much like instructions to be a spy.

Except that MT still trusts sky, implying that it was Marv, reading MT's mind, that brought that up.

>but I could be wrong.

You probably are.
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No. 25655 ID: 383006

Once again, both of you make some excellent points, and both of you are definitely very clever and attentive. To keep people from being confused, I'll clarify a couple things. My comments are in bold


1)
>The Ophians have only become ingratiated to him rather recently.

The Ophians were ingratiated with him BEFORE THE REBELLION. There are stockpiles of K'Shaara's blood in his territory already.

I don't know if this was unclear from the update, but that is the blood the refugees managed to haul out of Suri. Lord of Marvels didn't have any of K'shaara's blood with him. They also didn't know he'd had anything to do with the original rebellion until just recently.

2) K'Shaara's lack of contacts and Rixyx's insane withdrawal actually kept K'Shaara's stabbing from becoming known.

This is actually correct. In the first chapter, Blacksoul didn't know that she'd even been stabbed, and it had happened at least fifty years ago. Many of the other wizards routinely communicate with each other.
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No. 25656 ID: 6071d3

>>335453
>I can't avoid that...
Actually it's quite easy. Just don't do it.

>There is nobody there to sway.
The context I provided was for a weapons test, not conquest. The point of using it on Meg first would be to confirm the things work, not be build an army.

>K'Shaara, on the other hand, lived openly in a city surrounded by people that she got along with swimmingly. She was the only wizard that was really vulnerable to ambush.
And Moriga. Who is also weaker, cowardly, and has more combat capable creatures surounding her.

>The Ophians were ingratiated with him BEFORE THE REBELLION. There are stockpiles of K'Shaara's blood in his territory already.
Tha Bawss beat me to this one. Guess I don't have to say anything. Nuts.

>It is very possible that he is trying to do that, but that is still ultimately conjecture.
Based on the information available to us now it does not make sense for Marv to want the Sea of Oblivion consume the Peninsula. Supporting details exist for this assessment.
Supporting details for a counter claim: that the Progenitors are capable of altering wizards in some way to allow them to survive inside the Sea do not exist. Other than covering themselves in soul goop, which have no reason to believe anyone other than Blacksoul knows about, there is no way at all for a wizard to survive inside the Sea.

>Unless the progenitors can do something about it and that was a part of the deal.
Aside from covering him in soul goop, which would likely strip him of most of his power inside the Sea, there is zero evidence, nothing even hinted at, that would indicate they have this ability.
I ebelieve you stated it quite adequately earlier: "Which makes it conjecture, which is inferior to deduction."

>hahahahahahahaha no.
I said "In fact Kshaara is perhaps the most dangerous wizard he could have attacked" within a specific context. That context was assuming that the Wall becomes weaker and moves in as wizards die and their magic dissipates. What other wizard do we know of that can kill another and prevent the net loss of magic power in the process? At the time of the rebellion it was only Kshaara. No one else had a habit of eating people and, so far as we know, that's about the only way to take a wizard's power and kill them at the same time. There may be other ways, yes, but so far none have even been hinted at.
Outside of this context, that is if we assume that the Wall does not weaken and recede as wizards die, then certainly there are a few more dangerous choices.

>When there are 10 of you, 2 is a pattern.
When there are 10 of you, 2 is not a pattern. It's just really, really worrying. This is semantic, though.

>K'Shaara's lack of contacts and Rixyx's insane withdrawal actually kept K'Shaara's stabbing from becoming known.
Was going to address this one, but Tha Bawss also beat me to it. Point conceded. I still maintain that Moriga would've been a better choice, however. She is a coward. It took some coaxing and the promise of protection to get her to say anything and even then she was hesitant. A sudden attack on her, success or fail, would've yielded few clues as to the identity of the culprit.

>Except that MT still trusts sky, implying that it was Marv, reading MT's mind, that brought that up.
I do not agree with this assessment, but there really isn't any way to debate it either. We can't read minds and we don't know what was said. This one is unsolvable.

>>335455
>and it had happened at least fifty years ago
Ah! Finally some information on the timeline. Can you provide any other details about the Peninsula's history? Like how long has it been just the Peninsula? How long has Moriga been hosting abandoned creatures?
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No. 25658 ID: bf1e7e

>>335456

>The point of using it on Meg first would be to confirm the things work, not be build an army.

And you would have to actually get the weapons to her to do that, and there is nothing that lives in her swamp that can be persuaded. Sending something there will just end up with a dead something. K'Shaara was far more vulnerable than Meg.

>And Moriga. Who is also weaker, cowardly, and has more combat capable creatures surounding her.

Creatures which would be far less likely to turn on her. You'll notice that MT didn't turn on Sky when he tried to get her to, either.

>Which makes it conjecture, which is inferior to deduction."

Exactly. Speculation on Marv's endgame is almost entirely conjecture, the very fact that he IS allied with the progenitors is extremely relevant to his trustworthiness. And if he isn't trustworthy, I am not willing to put the world anywhere near his hands.

>I still maintain that Moriga would've been a better choice, however.

Moriga is on friendly terms with Flails Breaker, who would probably be a lot more direct than Rixyx if she were to vanish.

>This one is unsolvable.

No, it is obvious. You are just ignoring it because it is an extremely damning incident for the 'Marv is totes a friendly and reasonable guy' stance.

One more question for you: Why is it better for Marv to commit genocide than for Blacksoul to commit a large-scale holocaust?

Nothing else you said was really worth addressing.
>>
No. 25660 ID: 383006

>>335456
That is actually in Book 1. The Ophian Adept tells Ria and Spikesby about it when they first visit Suri.

There is no reason for me to not exposit a rough timeline here though. All of these points have been made at some point during the quest, so a player could have put this back together by now:

1: War is beginning. Wizards fight Wizards.

2: Moriga runs away.

3: Flails Breaker, Soulfire, and Flare become Wizards. They are extremely powerful.

4: Antithesis - "The Wind" comes into the world, along with the creatures known as Windborn. They begin to kill Wizards

5: Progenitors appear

6: More and more wizards are killed as the Sea of Oblivion covers more and more of the earth.

7: The remaining wizards broker a truce. They formulate a plan to seal off the peninsula from the rest of the Sea by congealing a Wall.

8: Moriga shows back up

9: Lord of Marvels contacts the Progenitors and receives the ore infused with Antithesis

9: The Wizards carry out their plan and then divide the peninsula up into separate territories.

10: Soulfire makes his original race do not steal

11: K'shaara makes Ophians

12: Soulfire Kills his original race do not steal and makes Blockheads instead

13: Ophians rapidly begin to acquire souls. They rebel against K'shaara

14: The events of the Quest happen.
>>
No. 25676 ID: 6071d3

>>335458
>there is nothing that lives in her swamp that can be persuaded.
The purpose of a weapons test is to the effectiveness of a weapon. Persuading isn't necessary. It's a weapons test.

>Sending something there will just end up with a dead something.
Sky managed to go land in the swamp with barely any incident. Why would something made by Marv be any different?

>K'Shaara was far more vulnerable than Meg.
Kshaara was surrounded by fairly loyal citizens that she apparently took rather good care of. To get to Kshaara the citizens first had to be turned without her noticing, then weapons had to be shipped in, then an attacked planned, and finally executed.
Meg has only vast tracts of swamp, dead trees, and decaying skeletons that barely manged to hinder Sky, who isn't really designed for combat either. A simple "walk in, bypass undead defenses, and kill her" approach is all that is needed here. No lengthy preparations or possibility of being discovered.

>Creatures which would be far less likely to turn on her.
Because... why? Because she got along with swimmingly? By your own admission Kshaara took good care of her people. More than that, she even claims to love them, calling them her children.

>You'll notice that MT didn't turn on Sky when he tried to get her to, either.
Yet the Ophians seemed perfectly happy to turn Kshaara into a pincushion and live off her corpse for five decades; one of her original adepts even calling her a tyrant or something. You're saying Marv can convince an entire society that their apparently benevolent caretaker is a cruel tyrant... but he can't get a single creature to tell a good enough lie to get a friend to walk through some doors? Very inconsistent.
This also raise questions as to why the Ophians actually rebelled. We haven't really asked them yet. The one Ophian adept even referred to her rule as tyranny, but wasn't specific. We don't know their reasoning or their grudges, even if they nothing more than the result of brainwashing. We should really ask some more in depth questions about this.

>Exactly. Speculation on Marv's endgame is almost entirely conjecture
Yet you seem convinced that his endgame is genocide. Do you admit this is conjecture as well?

>the very fact that he IS allied with the progenitors
Again you assert that he is lying through his teeth to the peninsula, but is totally honest and devoted to the Sea of Oblivion. This is very counterintuitive.

>is extremely relevant to his trustworthiness.
We have yet to determine if he is lying or telling the truth to the Progenitors. Being that he stands to gain the most, whether he is good or evil, from deceiving them and destroying them, it is unreasonable to discount this possibility, even more so to give greater weight to an outcome that may or may not be possible and may require giving up some of his power (assimilating with the Progenitors.)

>Moriga is on friendly terms with Flails Breaker
If by friendly terms you mean she occasionally stops by to chat, then yes.

>who would probably be a lot more direct than Rixyx if she were to vanish.
What? Xix loved Kshaara so much he literally went nuts when she "died." It took him fifty years to break into Suri and retrieve her. Flails just talks with Moriga every once in a while. Why would he come rushing to save her and what makes you think he could do it in less time?
That assumes he even cares enough do to something. Occasional chit chat does not mean undying loyalty. Most of his time seems to be spent screwing, raging, and apparently lusting after Radia.
He would also have to pass through the territories of at least 2 other wizards, which is apparently not okay according to their collective pact, to reach Moriga's, wreak some vengeance, and investigate. He also seems pretty thick, so even if he made it that far the chances of him figuring out who caused it all is close to zero.

>No, it is obvious. You are just ignoring it...
No. I interpret it differently than you do. I cannot interpret something I ignore.

>Why is it better for Marv to commit genocide
I reiterate: "Speculation on Marv's endgame is almost entirely conjecture." So it's not conjecture when you say it?

>Blacksoul to commit a large-scale holocaust?
See, Blacksoul will commit genocide, actually will snuff out all life on the planet if he has to, and we know it. Right now his plans are smaller, but big enough that I find them unacceptable except as a very last resort. We have no idea haw far Marv is willing to go, but it really can't be any farther than Blacksoul is.

>Nothing else you said was really worth addressing.
Then you concede all points not addressed? Or you just give up on them?
>>
No. 25677 ID: 1854db

>>335476
Uh, just wanted to say something here. K'shaara ATE her servants. Regularly.
>>
No. 25678 ID: 6071d3

>>335477
Actually, according to Kshaara...
>>323780
Perhaps not the most objective source of information on this particular subject, but she was talking directly to the players, so... I dunno, you decide for yourself.
>>
No. 25686 ID: bf1e7e

>Why would something made by Marv be any different?

Because Any attack by a magical creature is stopped cold by a single word. That is why.

>No lengthy preparations or possibility of being discovered.

Exactly how aware IS meg of what enters her swamp?

Also, what if, and this is a pretty crazy what if here I know, but what if it was more than just a weapons test?

>You're saying Marv can convince an entire society that their apparently benevolent caretaker is a cruel tyrant... but he can't get a single creature to tell a good enough lie to get a friend to walk through some doors?

He had a lot longer to work his mentalism on the Ophians, and clearly engaged in some sort of shenanigans (he even claims it was mentalism!) to start giving them souls before the whole 'rebellion' thing.

>Yet you seem convinced that his endgame is genocide. Do you admit this is conjecture as well?

Not at all, because killing all of the wizards is his stated goal.

>This is very counterintuitive.

We do not know the full nature of his deal with the progenitors. We have no evidence that he is lying to them, and plenty that he has been lying to the mortals of the peninsula.

>He also seems pretty thick, so even if he made it that far the chances of him figuring out who caused it all is close to zero.

It doesn't matter if he would figure out what caused it, he would raise enough of a ruckus to let people know that it had happened at all, which is the exact opposite of what rixyx did.

>I cannot interpret something I ignore.

You can not interpret text at all, actually. What other interpretation IS there for MT's statement? Not 'maybe some nebulous thing other than a warning,' if she is not telling sky that she thinks that Marv doesn't have sky's best interests in mind what IS she saying?

>"Speculation on Marv's endgame is almost entirely conjecture." So it's not conjecture when you say it?

Once again, genocide is his current stated goal.

>See, Blacksoul will commit genocide, actually will snuff out all life on the planet if he has to, and we know it.

As determined by a clearly emotional and empassioned diatribe in ITQ. Nobody ever uses hyperbole when they are angry.

Not to mention that there is no indication that he even CAN do that.

>Or you just give up on them?

They are either self-evident and obvious (Because they're 'lol we don't really know' stuff) or they're stupid enough that I'm giving up on you.
>>
No. 25690 ID: bf1e7e

Epiphany at work today:

It is extremely likely that Marv is actually telling the truth, and that the wall will not fall if a wizard is killed. Blacksoul was a big player in making it, and he was paranoid enough to ensure that killing a wizard or two wouldn't cause the wall to be destroyed.

To support this, he even mentioned that Rixyx may need to be 'dealt with' after the K'Shaara shenanigans. If a wizard's death would destroy the wall, he wouldn't even consider that.

However, there is a line early in the quest, one of the first concerning blacksoul. That line concerns how he spends all of his time in his laboratory, trying to push back the wall of shadow. Not to eliminate it entirely (he wouldn't consider that until he got the chance to study the soul monster), but to push it.

This means that, since Blacksoul knows how the wall works, it is not static. It will most likely not break, but it can be moved.

Kalikissa mentioned that Marv came to see the progenitors. It is unlikely that they were at the wall waiting, or that a messenger was sent (she did say that he came personally, after all). Further, there was clearly a massive conflict between the progenitors and the wizards that led to the current state of affairs.

This means that it is not simply the presence or lack of the magic emanations of the wizards or anti-magic emanations of the progenitors that limit their movement, there clearly MUST be ways for the two to approach each other for there to have been a war in the first place.

Therefore, the wall's purpose is simply to hinder movement from one 'bubble' to the other. It is even mentioned as 'congealed' from the barrier where the two bubbles met.

Since the wall is not static, and we understand the basic functionality of the magic/anti-magic territory bubbles, it can be surmised that in order to move the wall one would need to change the balance of power between the wizards and progenitors. Killing a progenitor, as an example, would push the wall out. Killing a wizard, however, will push the wall IN. The pressure will no longer be 'equalized' in either event and the barrier will naturally shift to account for this.

This means that while Lord of Marvels would still be able to maintain a 'bubble' with all of the other wizards dead (in theory) as the congealed wall would remain, the amount of livable (as I consider the existence within the sea of oblivion to be significantly less than life) terrain available to mortals will summarily decrease as well. And if the progenitors ARE hatching their own plan independent of Marv's Deal, it will become prohibitively difficult to prevent a handful of soul monsters from crashing through the wall and genociding all of the mortal life within the much smaller area with only one wizard (whose specialty is mentalism) there to try to prevent it.

Additionally, there appear to be adverse effects on wizards for being too close to other wizards. If the wall begins to shrink, things get worse for everyone.

This is a tremendously good reason to NOT kill any other wizards. If you really believe that there is a significant risk that the soulmonsters are NOT a part of Marv's plan, it is utterly crucial that no wizards (not even Marv) be slain until the goals of the progenitors can be ascertained.
>>
No. 25715 ID: bf1e7e

Additionally: The Lord of Marvels mentioned nothing about Suri to Spikesby, which doesn't mesh with what he told the Ophians about its defense.
>>
No. 25724 ID: c71597

>>335490
Deal with doesn't necessarily mean kill though. If he were to simply "Kill" Ryxix like Kshaara was killed by the ophians then that would quite effectively neutralise Ryxix. And it's unlikely that anyone would come to save Ryxix since nobody feels strongly enough about him to do such a thing.
>>
No. 25725 ID: 6071d3

>>335490
>This is a tremendously good reason to NOT kill any other wizards. If you really believe that there is a significant risk that the soulmonsters are NOT a part of Marv's plan, it is utterly crucial that no wizards (not even Marv) be slain until the goals of the progenitors can be ascertained.

I win. There is no further need to discuss anything unless you want to.
>>
No. 25729 ID: bf1e7e

>>335525

>I win.

What?

Nono, you see, that is only the result of YOUR speculations. helping Marv AT ALL is a terrible idea under your own criteria.

You have established a big pile of contradictory information and spontaneously declared yourself the 'winner,' which pretty much shows that you ARE in fact an utter moron and weren't worth discussing anything with in the first place. I am disappointed by this turn of events.
>>
No. 25733 ID: 1854db

>>335490
>trying to push back
This implies that he has not found a way to move it. It does not imply that it can be moved.

However, you did say that Blacksoul was considering killing Ryxix. This in itself suggests that it is safe to kill Wizards. Your opposing conclusion takes a rather roundabout path of logic that I think is unlikely to be true. Keep it simple.

But yeah, LoM has lied before and is not infallible. He isn't truly predicting the future- if he is, he sucks at it. I mean, all he'd need to do is send a message to one of Blacksouls' group to tell them about the giant creature being made in the desert and they would've done something about it.
>>
No. 25738 ID: bf1e7e

>>335533

>It does not imply that it can be moved.

If it can not be moved, Blacksoul would know. It's his wall, after all.

>However, you did say that Blacksoul was considering killing Ryxix.

It took something as drastic as the current situation for Blacksoul to even CONSIDER that another wizard may need to be 'dealt with.' It would probably take some time for the magical pressure from the now ex-wizard to dissipate, but in the meantime all of the wizards' territories would need to be redrafted to manage the now-decreased space. It would be a massive diplomatic undertaking between a large group of people who can not meet with each other for any significant period of time.
>>
No. 25740 ID: 6071d3

>>335529

>What?

For about the first day my objective was to convince you of my point of view. I have made every effort to understand your points of view, have made reasonable suggestions and counterclaims (or at least Tha Bawss thought so), and have even acknowledged those of yours that I felt had merit, even if I did not believe they were true. You have done little of this in return. At every turn you have said "You're wrong. I'm right. There isn't even a chance that you are correct and I am mistaken." Or words to that effect. Based upon this behavior, your temper, and frequent use of insults I estimated the probability of this occurring was so close to zero that I should discount it altogether.

Thus I changed my objective from "get him to see things my way" to "Ensure Marv's safety until further information can be gathered."

I have just accomplished this objective. You now appear to believe that keeping Marv alive, at least for now, is a good idea (as I do) if only because we can still learn potentially valuable information from him and because his death could potentially cause severe instability in the region. Worse still: Blacksoul is awfully close to the Wall. If even one wizard dies that might be all the leeway it needs to overcome his lair. All his research, all his resources would be gone. Blacksoul too, maybe, if he doesn't see it coming soon enough.

I am not saying you lose. Your condition of defeat would probably be something like "This other guy has convinced me. I have to admit I'm wrong." That hasn't occurred.

But my victory condition has been met. Therefore I win.
>>
No. 25743 ID: bf1e7e

>Thus I changed my objective from "get him to see things my way" to "Ensure Marv's safety until further information can be gathered."

But I don't think that it should, because he is trying to kill the other wizards. Everyone needs to be protected from him because it would be better for him to die than for everyone else to die.

>You now appear to believe that keeping Marv alive, at least for now, is a good idea (as I do)

Nope. My entire point was that, by YOUR logic (not all of which I agree with), killing ANY wizard is bad and helping Marv with anything is the absolute worst thing that you can do.

>Your condition of defeat

You say that like I HAVE conditions of victory and defeat. You DO understand that the point of a discussion is not to 'win,' right?
>>
No. 25749 ID: 6071d3

>>335543
>But I don't think that it should, because he is trying to kill the other wizards. Everyone needs to be protected from him because it would be better for him to die than for everyone else to die.
It would seem you haven't understood much of anything that I have said thus far.

>Nope.
Except.
>It took something as drastic as the current situation for Blacksoul to even CONSIDER that another wizard may need to be 'dealt with.' It would probably take some time for the magical pressure from the now ex-wizard to dissipate, but in the meantime all of the wizards' territories would need to be redrafted to manage the now-decreased space. It would be a massive diplomatic undertaking between a large group of people who can not meet with each other for any significant period of time.
Seems to indicate you think a wizard dying would be a bad idea. Marv is a wizard. If he dies this will happen, or at least you believe it will. Unless you believe massive geopolitical upheaval is a good thing and that it can only help Spikesby achieve his "happily ever after" or whichever ending you are aiming for.

>My entire point was that, by YOUR logic (not all of which I agree with), killing ANY wizard is bad and helping Marv with anything is the absolute worst thing that you can do.
If this is the case then I don't think you've understood even a small amount of my reasoning thus far.

>You DO understand that the point of a discussion is not to 'win,' right?
The point of a debate is to discuss the merit of conflicting ideas and eventually settle on the most reasonable conclusion. In some cases this doesn't mean there is a victor, because both parties may only be half right or no conclusion was reached. Even so, winning is still possible even if that is not the purpose.
In this case I was no longer holding a debate after the first day.

If you would like to continue, then that's fine, but otherwise my interest has waned. You too easily lose your temper, resort to insults and personal attacks (which is certainly not how debating is done), and have yet to provide any positive feedback that I can recall. I realized talking with you would not be productive almost from the start, but I have kept with it until now because it was at least somewhat amusing and I had an objective. Now It's wednesday. It's halfway through the week, I've accomplished my goal, your demeanor has not changed, and I'm tired of it.
But I will still continue if you want. I just won't be as polite.
>>
No. 25752 ID: bf1e7e

>>335549

>Unless you believe massive geopolitical upheaval is a good thing

It is a better thing than any endgame we can actually deduce from helping Marv. I'm not willing to gamble on a completely nebulous future that may come about if the genocidal liar actually has some ultimately good plan of which there is no actual sign.

>If this is the case then I don't think you've understood even a small amount of my reasoning thus far.

Given that you redefine your goals and reasoning whenever it becomes inconvenient to continue, it will basically be impossible for anyone to truly understand your reasoning.

>and I had an objective. Now It's wednesday. It's halfway through the week, I've accomplished my goal,

No, you haven't. You redefined your goal to attempt to save face, and even your redefined goal hasn't been met, as there is no conceivable way to stop Marv from trying to kill the other wizards without killing him, and the fewer wizards killed the better things are for the mortals.

And that is the thing you are ignoring because it is so utterly inconvenient for you. If left alone, Marv WILL attempt to kill the other wizards. If killing wizards is bad, the very best Marv should hope for from the players is not receiving any aid at all, certainly not being helped with anything. We have nothing to gain from speaking with him and quite literally everything to lose.

>But I will still continue if you want. I just won't be as polite.

You haven't been any more polite than I have since the fucking beginning of this. You have dismissed points without even an attempt to address them and accused people of bias non-stop. I might be more direct about it, but that is ultimately irrelevant.
>>
No. 25758 ID: 6071d3

>>335552
>You haven't been any more polite than I have since the fucking beginning of this.
I don't recall insulting your intelligence, swearing at you, dismissing you claims as moronic, or completely ignoring something you've said. You, on the other hand, have done all of this.

>You have dismissed points without even an attempt to address them
If I have forgotten to address some of your claims, then point them out and I will do just that, but as far as I know I haven't ignored anything.

>accused people of bias non-stop.
You mean I accused *you.*

>Given that you redefine your goals and reasoning whenever it becomes inconvenient to continue
I redefined my goal on Monday. It has remained the same since then. I did this because I realized it was probably unachievable.
I believe my reasoning has been consistent. Have I mistakenly contradicted myself somewhere? If so then where?
>>
No. 25760 ID: 1854db

>>335538
>If it can not be moved, Blacksoul would know. It's his wall, after all.

It is? Where is that said? Actually even if it is, he should know how to move it, if he knows everything about it. Why is he 'trying' and not 'doing with some difficulty'?

>It took something as drastic as the current situation for Blacksoul to even CONSIDER that another wizard may need to be 'dealt with.'
Drastic? Uh, all Ryxix did was break the treaty by invading the town. What's drastic about the situation? Compared to what other Wizards do every day it's not a huge deal that one town was mostly-destroyed. I'm disagreeing with you in the severity of all your claims.

Also why do you say wizards can't meet eachother? I thought they stayed apart like that because of the treaty. Nothing bad happened when Ryxix and K'shaara met in the city, and nothing bad happened BEFORE either, when Ryxix was still sane and they were meeting regularly.
>>
No. 25762 ID: bf1e7e

>I don't recall insulting your intelligence, swearing at you, dismissing you claims as moronic, or completely ignoring something you've said.

You certainly haven't sworn at me.

>If I have forgotten to address some of your claims, then point them out and I will do just that,

Every time I have done that you have responded with 'I already suitably addressed this.' Typing words after some greentext doesn't mean you are actually addressing the statement.

Why on earth should I believe that you're going to change your tune now?

>You mean I accused *you.*

Of course that is what I mean, you dense motherfucker. I am a person too, and I wouldn't deign to become offended on someone else's behalf.

>I redefined my goal on Monday. It has remained the same since then.

And you have still not achieved it. Instead you came in and decided to declare 'victory' in lieu of actually responding to anything.

>I believe my reasoning has been consistent. Have I mistakenly contradicted myself somewhere?

It isn't so much that you have contradicted yourself as that you have utterly failed to interpret direct statements and then built upon your horrendously flawed assumptions; and you are unable to accept that your initial assumptions might be flawed because you have already formualated other hypotheses based on them.

The conclusions you have drawn from several things, notably my treatise on killing wizards and the wall; as well Majestic Thunderstrike's warning, prove one of three things.

1: You are a fucking moron.
2: You are unable to actually follow a logical progression.
3: You are ignoring everything that is inconvenient.

Since you claim that 1 and 3 are not the case, 2 is the remaining option. You do not understand the basic logical constructs that allow contradictions to be determined.

And I'm pretty much done here. You aren't even talking about Bite Quest at this point, you are just arguing with me. No better than when Shii hopped into the thread. If you just want to bicker with me because you're mad that I don't accept your claims of victory because I am not playing by your insane rules; come on into the IRC channels. I'll bicker all you want!

If you want to continue ACTUALLY DISCUSSING BITE QUEST in the thread, I'll probably be willing to come back and discuss. I don't even care if you insult me while you're doing it!

But if you're just going to redefine your goals like a bitch and try to start a fight, there are better venues.
>>
No. 25765 ID: bf1e7e

>>335560

>Why is he 'trying' and not 'doing with some difficulty'?

Because he can't move it just by wanting to? He would need to find a way to either increase the strength of the wizards or decrease the strength of the progenitors.

>Drastic? Uh, all Ryxix did was break the treaty by invading the town. What's drastic about the situation? Compared to what other Wizards do every day it's not a huge deal that one town was mostly-destroyed.

He invaded a town in another wizard's territory with a war-scale siege monster. Blacksoul also didn't know the circumstances behind K'Shaara's plight.

If an open invasion of someone else's territory isn't drastic, what the fuck is?

>Compared to what other Wizards do every day it's not a huge deal that one town was mostly-destroyed.

Name me one fucking wizard who does anything EVEN APPROACHING this scale on a daily basis.

You seem to have a tremendously disproportionate idea of just how bad the wizards actually are.

>Nothing bad happened when Ryxix and K'shaara met in the city

Rixyx certainly seemed a fuckload crazier when he was in K'Shaara's domain than he was either before or after that. Even after the invasion when he was still extra-huge, he was far less of a stammering wreck when he was in his own territory.
>>
No. 25766 ID: 6071d3

>You certainly haven't sworn at me.
Or any of that other stuff. And I forgot to put snide in there too. I admit I've done that a couple times, though.

>Every time I have done that you have responded with 'I already suitably addressed this.'
Why did you not bring it up, then? If I thought I had addressed something when I did not, why didn't you say "No you didn't?"
Since you obviously believe this is the case, what haven't I addressed?

>Of course that is what I mean
People. Plural. This was incorrect. If you had said "me" I would not have brought it up.

Marv is wizard.
>all of the wizards' territories would need to be redrafted to manage the now-decreased space. It would be a massive diplomatic undertaking between a large group of people who can not meet with each other for any significant period of time.
Killing a wizard is bad.
So you do or do not want to kill Marv?

>It isn't so much that you have contradicted yourself as that you have utterly failed to interpret direct statements and then built upon your horrendously flawed assumptions; and you are unable to accept that your initial assumptions might be flawed because you have already formualated other hypotheses based on them.
That's odd. I was thinking the same of you.

>you dense motherfucker.
>1: You are a fucking moron.
>2: You are unable to actually follow a logical progression.
>like a bitch and try to start a fight
It seems you have lost your temper again.
>>
No. 25770 ID: 1854db

>>335565
Rixyx certainly seemed a fuckload crazier when he was in K'Shaara's domain than he was either before or after that. Even after the invasion when he was still extra-huge,

What? We haven't seen Ryxix since then. I thought it was fairly obvious that he was extra-crazy when he was rescuing K'shaara because it was an extremely stressful situation, and besides, WE made him worse with our suggestions. Plus he kinda was crazy before that, just not obviously so when Spikesby was visiting. He was, after all, in a comfortable, non-stressful situation then, speaking to a subordinate.

>If an open invasion of someone else's territory isn't drastic, what the fuck is?
You said CURRENT SITUATION. The invasion happened IN THE PAST.

>Name me one fucking wizard who does anything EVEN APPROACHING this scale on a daily basis.
I am referring to stuff they do in their own territory, and I'm betting you'll discount that offhand, but okay.
Queen of Sorrows blows up shit whenever it doesn't follow her rules.
Radia lures mortals to her glass mountain so that they die on its sharp edges, and sends her minions out to kill anyone wearing a mask.
Ryxix ambushes caravans that pass through his territory.
Flails Breaker lets his creations run wild, fucking up shit (like that one town)
Blacksoul has weird magical phenomena in his territory that kicks the shit out of anyone that goes in there, apparently. Or perhaps that was one of those false rumor things?
Sure, it's a big deal that he invaded with basically a small army. I'm saying it's not so unusual for Wizards to kill mortals, and he didn't even kill that many of them tbh. He also left afterwards. The after-effects are not significant enough for Blacksoul to be concerned with them. It was just the breaking of the treaty, which may have made Blacksoul think that Ryxix had become too unstable. That is the only 'current situation' I can think of that would lead him to want to kill him.

Also since I feel like it:
>I am a person too, and I wouldn't deign to become offended on someone else's behalf.
So 'people' can refer to just you, and you don't give a shit about other people? My opinion of you lowers the more I am exposed to you. I wonder what you would think if I said you were sub-human?
>>
No. 25775 ID: bf1e7e

>>335570

>What? We haven't seen Ryxix since then.

K'Shaara intermission.

>You said CURRENT SITUATION. The invasion happened IN THE PAST.

The invasion of Suri happened in the last few months. Blacksoul's statement was in response to information about it.

Are you seriously that retarded?

>I am referring to stuff they do in their own territory, and I'm betting you'll discount that offhand, but okay.

None of that approaches the scale of a full-scale military assault on a city in another wizard's territory.

>and you don't give a shit about other people?

I have enough respect for other people to allow them to get offended for themselves. I don't think that they are so weak and incompetent as to need me to become offended on their behalf.

I wouldn't expect you to understand that, though.
>>
No. 25833 ID: 6071d3

Hey Bawss I have a few more questions inspired by the recent drama, but they may require a bit of "Word of God," as you put it, so I'm not expecting much in the way of answers. I was just too curious not to ask. Anyway...

I can guess that all the main characters dying, or maybe just Spikesby, would end the story, but can you reveal any winning conditions? Maybe just some hints? Or if that's prying too much, can you instead elaborate a little on what major events won't stop the story, while leaving the endings ambiguous?

K'shaara is the most powerful mentalist there is, but she can't read minds. Is this because mentalism just doesn't work like that? To provide some context: She had to ask Glory questions directly and use her power to, albeit unsuccessfully, coerce answers out of her. Is this because Mentalism powers are a one way street? That they can only impose information or directives on another mind, not "take" from them?

I understand that characters can and will lie in the Inside the Quest threads to avoid revealing information on the story, but in the case when Blacksoul said this...
>>329583
...it doesn't reveal any information about the stoy, but rather reveals an aspect of his character. Can we assume this is accurate? Would you be willing confirm that it is?

I have a few more questions, too, but I didn't want to be annoying by asking them all at once.
>>
No. 25836 ID: 383006

I'm going to go through and answer a bunch of questions:

>Zorsuz: Why do your "boons" have such heavy disadvantages? Do you think power only comes with great sacrifice, and wish to teach that to your Adepts?

Blacksoul has never been fond of adepts. He would rather be left alone. A heavy price, almost a curse, keeps him from being bothered by fools seeking power.

>Does this mean "Dreaming" weapons could also be made, similar in nature to the Antithesis spears?

The spears infused with K'shaara's blood would probably basically be this.

>Hmm, how much time passed between Soulfire creating the blockheads and his realization that he forgot to give them reproductive systems?

Soulfire, being perfect at making life, would never forget something so obvious. There was ~60 years between his original creation and the blockheads.

Or rather, how many attempts at creating life did he have to make before he remembered them?

>What will end the quest? Why can't K'shaara read minds. ITQ Blacksoul.

Spikesby's death will not end the quest. If every character that has been controlled up to this point dies (minus the snakewisp from the K'shaara Intermission), the quest will end. There will still be an epilogue.

I can't say anything else without giving away information that I don't want to reveal.

K'shaara can almost certainly read minds. She chooses to make people love her and reveal information voluntarily. The suggesters reacted like a zombie instead of an adoring slave, which made K'shaara assume that Glory had been altered in some way, but the answer given wasn't really satisfactory, so she ate Glory to figure out what was going on. Glory was immune to Mentalism temporarily by using the Blood.

Everything revealed in ITQ is accurate for that character, as if they were speaking to a neutral party (So, it's their perspective on the situation).

I don't mind questions. I just won't answer if I don't want to.
>>
No. 25854 ID: 6071d3

Okay then Bawss, here's a few more questions.

1: Is it just my imagination, or does the Sea of Oblivion not like water? If it's covered the entire world then I would think it might be hugging the coastline too, given how close the land border is to the wizards' territories.

2: We missed our chance to get spikesby all changed up by Ul Kerrul of the Sinking Sign. Can you shed some light on what sort of changes Spikesby would have undergone?

3: I doubt I'll get an answer to this one. Flails is the most talented at transmutation. It's beyond the Progenitors power to change little Spikesby, but could he do it?

4: Been going over the quest a lot today, preparing for something I may or may not post, but as I was reviewing the Intermission a random question popped into my head when I passed that creepy "Sea of Blood" image: Is K'shaara bigger on the inside? And where did all that blood come from?

5: Was that the end of book 5? Just wanna know if I should be returning to the old thread or looking for Book 6, come the weekend.

6: I asked a while ago how you organized your quest info, but now I'm curious of what you use to organize it. So what program or programs do you use, what do you use them for, and why do you use them over others?

7: How did you go about planning Bite Quest? What was your starting point? Your inspiration? How long did it take to flesh out the world and then plan the story? Or did you plan a story first, then fit it into the setting?
>>
No. 25874 ID: 383006

>1: Is it just my imagination, or does the Sea of Oblivion not like water? If it's covered the entire world then I would think it might be hugging the coastline too, given how close the land border is to the wizards' territories.

This appears to be true, based on the map and what Moriga said.

>2: We missed our chance to get Spikesby all changed up by Ul Kerrul of the Sinking Sign. Can you shed some light on what sort of changes Spikesby would have undergone?

I'll answer questions like these after the quest is complete.

>3: I doubt I'll get an answer to this one. Flails is the most talented at transmutation. It's beyond the Progenitors power to change little Spikesby, but could he do it?

If Spikesby is just a regular mortal creature, then it makes sense that he could.

>4: Been going over the quest a lot today, preparing for something I may or may not post, but as I was reviewing the Intermission a random question popped into my head when I passed that creepy "Sea of Blood" image: Is K'shaara bigger on the inside? And where did all that blood come from?

Much like Ryxix, K'shaara's body has changed. She appears to bleed constantly (or ooze blood) from several of her old wounds.

>5: Was that the end of book 5? Just wanna know if I should be returning to the old thread or looking for Book 6, come the weekend.

Same thread

>6: I asked a while ago how you organized your quest info, but now I'm curious of what you use to organize it. So what program or programs do you use, what do you use them for, and why do you use them over others?

New Text Document.txt and a sketchbook. The sketchbook has the map and the character designs in it. The .txt document is a highly sophisticated word-containing device with all my notes.

>7: How did you go about planning Bite Quest? What was your starting point? Your inspiration? How long did it take to flesh out the world and then plan the story? Or did you plan a story first, then fit it into the setting?

I came up with the protagonist first, then the setting. I made Bite Quest in response to a lot of the quests I saw on the board at the time. A lot of the quests at the time had *romantic subtext, *hugging, *puzzles, *talking to solve problems, *Inventory management, and *mostly interior/underground settings, so I made a protagonist that *Has no genitals *Cannot hug *Cannot talk *cannot easily manipulate objects *Has no inventory and almost all of the settings are *outside.

I talked over my setting and story ideas with a friend of mine and he helped me straighten some stuff out/gave me some ideas for a couple of the Wizards. I'd say I dicked around for about a week before I actually decided to start, but I didn't spend that time working dedicatedly or anything. It'd probably be about 4~6 hours of work total, maybe.
>>
No. 25875 ID: 2563d4

>>335674
>A lot of the quests at the time had tromantic subtext, to Spikesby has no genitals
>If anyone can transmute Spikesby, it's Flails Breaker

:3c
>>
No. 25879 ID: bf1e7e

>>335675

Actually, just about any of the wizards could probably transmute spikesby at this point. He isn't inherently anti-magic, he's just mortal.

In theory, anyway.
>>
No. 25882 ID: 1854db

Hey, because I don't feel like reading the huge bitchfest, can someone (someone who wasn't part of the argument) summarize the conclusions that were made from it?

Like, what the most likely things are to be true, stuff like that. Then maybe we can continue with some civil discussion!
>>
No. 25891 ID: 6071d3

Thanks for the answers Bawss. Wanted to ask clarification on one thing and I think you forgot one, too.

So K'shaara is bleeding internally, then? Ouch. Seems like that might cause problems even for a wizard.

You didn't say if she was bigger on the inside, though.
>>
No. 25913 ID: 383006

>>335691
Why on earth would she be bigger on the inside?
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No. 25914 ID: f82d85
File 128845302695.jpg - (19.17KB , 300x300 , biggerontheinside.jpg )
25914

>>335713

It's bigger on the inside!
>>
No. 25919 ID: 6071d3

>>335713
I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. It just occurred to me and I had to ask. Like I said: random question.

>>335714
You deserve a cookie.
>>
No. 25955 ID: 6071d3

Would using the antithesis on spikespy kill him if he were magic again? Or would this break that magic, or just make him terribly sick?
Either by smearing some on him or, God forbid, taking a sip form the jar?
>>
No. 25968 ID: 383006

>>335755
I hope you don't honestly think I'm going to answer this question.
>>
No. 25969 ID: 383006

There is a decent amount of talking and exposition that can happen, so I am going to update slowly over the course of the week like I did with the Moriga chapter.
>>
No. 25972 ID: 6071d3

>>335768
I was so certain you wouldn't that I put off asking it for 4 days. I still had to try, though. Sucks having OCD sometimes.

But I'm out of annoying questions for now. You won't have to put up with me for a while.
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No. 26024 ID: 4c91d5
File 128870179590.png - (52.49KB , 704x801 , hoot_hooo.png )
26024

That last question by the Last Hraru, is she asking if we want to bring her brandy, or is she asking if we want her to repeat the synopsis?

because this is all I can think of when I see all those Y's.
>>
No. 26025 ID: 383006

:3c
>>
No. 26523 ID: 0cf1c0

No new updates. Not this weekend, and probably not for another month. My finals are coming up and my Saturdays are no longer my own. I really wanted to get one more session done before I took this break I knew was coming, but it seems to be impossible.

If I can squeeze out one more session before finals, I will, but don't count on it. On the bright side, I'll probably start updating Sammy again because it takes a lot less time.
>>
No. 26541 ID: 8e18cd

>>336323

;_; Hrarrrrrrrrrruuuuuuuuu
>>
No. 27826 ID: 2563d4

>>337608
Look at that wizard brushing a unicorn. How can anyone plan to kill entities who brush unicorns?
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No. 28965 ID: bffa2a

So, just to be clear after being out of the loop for a long while what excactly are we trying to accomplish?

Are we seriously trying to create a colorless grey slush of a world where everyone has slowly advancing alzheimer's or are we just starting a fight because it's so kewl and spike couldn't possibly be killed by a fuckin' fighting machine?

Wouldn't a big fight between the wizards at Marvel's place be just as fine and be cool as hell also? Wouldn't our antithesis weaponry be more applicaple in protecting those we care about if they purposefully came after us? Like say we actually would like to save Majestic, the ophians and about everybody in our gang when BlackSoul wants our souls? I GUESS I'M SAYING IF YOU WANT TO KILL A WIZARD THEN MARVELS AND BLACKSOUL ARE VERY GOOD CHOICES. What the fuck are you doing?

If there's a plan in this madness then don't take offence if I want to know it.
>>
No. 28967 ID: 2563d4

>>338765
>Sea of Oblivion bad
>BLACKSOUL GOOD CHOICE TO KILL
>Blacksoul only wizard who gives two shits about stopping/reverting Sea of Oblivion, even if it's into crazy at-any-cost territory

I don't think you're internally consistent there.

Radia is a much more deserving target if /quest/ have bloodlust to go hunt a wizard as some kind of short-sighted statement of "fuck you". Soulfire isn't the nicest of people either, what with the genocide. Xykix is twisted but his focus is entirely on Snaketits, who we're missing info on on why exactly there was an uprising about. Everyone else pretty much leaves their subjects alone!
>>
No. 28968 ID: bf1e7e

>>338765

Read the threads and pay some fucking attention.

We need to get to blacksoul so that we can find out if Flare was right about him being on Marv's side. If he IS on Marv's side, we can kill him off now to prevent him from helping Marv kill the other wizards. If he ISN'T on Marv's side, he'll probably want to help stop Marv.

We're fighting the guard because we already tried talking and there is no other way past.
>>
No. 28969 ID: e3f578

>>338767
Spikesby cannot climb the fortress of glass to get to Rydia. If we somehow do manage to get Flails on our side he could design an unstoppable warbeast thing since he's like the best at creating creatures if I recall right. I think he could set it to talk to even animals too, which could help Spikesby with another communicator. If everything does actually work out here we could gain a lot of advantages, maybe at the likely cost of a friend though.
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No. 28970 ID: bffa2a

Oh, okay. It wasen't clear right in the first official post that the guard was going to attack immeadetly when we weren't going to cross and would have just called him out bypassing the sentry killing entirely. And about previous threads there was a lot of kill the wizards in the last thread (I have read them) and immediate apparent hostility in this one that it was a good assumption. A very wrong one but understandable I hope.

Also the big fight I hoped to relay as a message could have been us or Marvels depending on Flails position. Tada, boss fight outside wizard castle without possible armada of fight creatures that might be in there. But it might have been a predestined fight, I don't know. Do you?

Oh, and Blacksoul becomes a good target when he threatens our life or our friends. Black goop be damned.
>>
No. 28971 ID: 2563d4

>>338770
>herpaderp friends
Fuck it. If /quest/ is going to be that short-sighted, just say "fuck the world" and go lurk somewhere in Morriga's territory.
>>
No. 28972 ID: bffa2a

>>338771

You can sacrifice the ophians if you want, everything else is Spikes. Oh, and it's not really fuck the world. Existance was just fine and dandy with the sea just there if only it would stay the fuck there. In the eyes of the mortals life was ok if somewhat made miserable by wizards. Marvels doing the fuck the world and Blacksoul wants revenge at the cost of a whole race. Everything on this side of the rim don't care and everything outside is too demented to care. Status quo is god.

Of course the balls already rolling and wizard deaths now have untold concequences but dammit, both sides are huge fuckin dicks.
>>
No. 28978 ID: 6071d3

If Blacksoul is the enemy it is because he is planning to murder a lot of people by tricking them into a false paradise that he will surely abandon the instant he accomplishes his goal.

He is most assuredly not helping the Progenitors, as this short discourse from ITQ-IV reveals a bit about his character that should dispel any doubts of his intent on the matter.

>>329579
>>329583
>>329584
>>329591
>>329602
>>329613
>>
No. 28998 ID: 70e5c6

>>/quest/267594
Is it just me, or does Childless Meg totally sound like Rorschach from The Watchmen? She's totally using that voice in my head now. :(
>>
No. 29000 ID: 6071d3

>>338798
One of them must have a been a past life of the other. But which, I wonder?
>>
No. 29002 ID: e973f4

>>/quest/267729
WHOOOOOOOOO
>>
No. 29008 ID: 2563d4

>>338802
It's whoo in that at least the wizard we've killed is the one who was probably the worst on the mortals of the world.

It's much less whoo that the Sea is probably now advancing, that we've reheated the war so more wizards are going to die, and "we" are still gunning to be a very active part of this.
>>
No. 29011 ID: 0b5a64

No More Bite Quest Updates! We'll go back to our regular, Saturday schedule, probably after New Years! Thanks for playing!
>>
No. 30456 ID: 15b51b

>>335340
This was pretty much canon.

If only we'd taken its hot dog powers as our own. :(
>>
No. 30483 ID: 383006
File 129643674035.jpg - (54.23KB , 1000x700 , End.jpg )
30483

WELL, Everything is over.

Questions/Comments/whatever. I'd like to hear what people thought and answer anything that didn't get covered.
>>
No. 30484 ID: 15b51b

I'm surprised and pleased that we got the Good End. But I'm a little upset that we didn't get the Best End. It's not like we had to do a 0% damage run or get all the chaos emeralds. It was RIGHT THERE.
>>
No. 30485 ID: 6071d3

>>340284
Ditto. Although the only thing that actually irks me about the end is Sky2.0 being carried of. The rest is quite agreeable.

>>340283
Bitequest was epic, interesting, original, well thought out and planned, everything.

And now for the first question: how would Spikesby have changed if Ul Kerrul of the Sinking Sign had gotten hold of him before Kallikissa?
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No. 30491 ID: 2563d4

>>340283
It was a damn cool setting and an good mix of sandbox yet with sufficient pressures for narrative direction.
>>
No. 30492 ID: 6cbed6

>>340283
Are you gonna show us what all the wizards looked like before they were wizards? I seem to remember that being promised at one point. :B
>>
No. 30495 ID: 6071d3

>>340292
Also what Marv's face looked like under that veil before he was a meat grenade?
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No. 30502 ID: e3f578

What was Spikesby's defined personality, at least for the rest of his life? Us giving him suggestions clouded what would actually be his personality. What he likes to do in spare time, etc. etc. The most I saw was honorable and a generally quite decent person, though rather blank.
>>
No. 30510 ID: bffa2a

Was there anything you really wanted to spring on us but never got to do it because we never went there or took a completely different approach from the planned one?

Also we got the good end? I'm actually suprised. With wizards being tactical nuclear warheads and everybody mashing the launch buttons like they were wired to the pleasure centers of their brain it seemed like the only way to win is not to play.
>>
No. 30513 ID: 1854db

What would've happened if we had touched the machine? My money's on massive soul explosion killing Meg and Spikesby but basically saving the world anyway.
>>
No. 30520 ID: 70e5c6

>>340283
I almost can't believe that it's over. :V

There are almost definitely things we could have done better... or worse. That's for sure.

The biggest "what-if", for me, must be: Was there a way to save the mortals from both "worlds" (wizard world and oblivion world)?

It seems like we basically (unintentionally) genocided the entire sea-of-oblivion world in order to save wizard-world. And not much really changed.

And the second most important question:
Were there baby naga-snikts? :>

Anyways, I liked how you managed to make the quest move between being funny, serious, and perverted in a very natural-feeling way. Nothing ever felt particularly forced. And the back-story... really dug it. I think it's actually a little ironic that the main plot was rather simple (greedy bastard tries to take over world / become god). The real "meat" of the story came from the interactions and relationships between different characters and the side-plots that resulted from those.
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No. 30521 ID: f58118

What. A. Quest.

I rarely posted suggestions, but I followed BiteQuest from is early beginnings to its beautiful, if slightly melancholic conclusion.

And boy, what a trip it was. bitequest, you shared a fantastic, mystical adeventure with us and for that I thank you.
I could say many good things about your art and your storytelling, but aboth all, your strange, unique characters stand out... I will remember them dearly! Yes, I do not mind to say I got emotionally involved with what we were able to glimpse of their lives in their magical world.

But enough of that, lest this turns into a review...

Salutations, bitequest! You did a wonderful quest.
>>
No. 30528 ID: e392fa

Thanks again for everyone who enjoyed the quest. I really appreciate everyone who read it, and especially the people who suggested. I really appreciate the compliments, and I'm really glad that the quest felt organic and natural.

I think I'm strongest at writing worlds and weakest at writing characters, so if the characters were interesting and made people feel they had an emotional stake, then I consider that a big success.

I tried to tailor the style of the story to work as well as possible with the medium of a Quest, so a lot of the story design revolved around a model that would allow for a lot of change based on what happened, although a decent amount of the time, the players couldn't really figure out exactly how much their actions changed or what results their actions would have on the world.

A lot of things changed completely from my original timeline in ways that I'd never predicted. My list of endings was modified constantly. I'm really glad that you guys were entertained by my weird, silly, gross quest. Thanks.

Now I'll answer some of the questions.


>>Progenitor Choice

Basically, Ul Kerul was all on board for Marvels's plan. He would have spun Marvels like a mofo as far as being an awesome guy and having this great plan to fix everything instead of Kallikissas "uh, yeah. Go kill some Wizards or something."

He also would have given Spikesby hands and a working digestive tract.


>>What is Spikesby like as a person?

Spikesby's personality was defined by the suggestions. He wasn't raised by Ryxix, so he didn't want to do nothing but hide in the desert and murder people.

He cared more about individual suffering than big-picture affairs and he never got the spare time to enjoy much of anything. He became a viciously loyal guy with a strong sense of morality. He felt that you do what feels right, and you don't allow needless suffering to go on. He was somewhat impulsive, but he always tried to do what he thought was best.

I think he most likes to spend his time doing very little - just relaxing, spending time outside in nature. He probably learned to read eventually, but I'd say he had little time for books or academics. He'd rather be outside enjoying life. He stayed humble and had no desire to be the center of attention, so, a quiet, honest, outdoorsy-type.

>>What would the machine have done?

Ascendant Ending, like Test Pattern thought. All of the power stored into the machine would have instantiated in Spikesby, making him an unstoppably powerful Wizard who could reshape things to his desire. Had a smaller chance for a good end, I think.

>>Stuff I planned that I didn't get to do

Not really, mostly thanks to Gnoll going to Flare's territory. I would have been a little sad if I'd never got to show off his character design, and Last Hraru.

I did screw up a couple things at the end. Radia had some trash talk with Meg that I forgot to post.

Some of the other Progenitors were kind of neat.

Uh, random, pointless Trivia: Sharkboat (the giant zombie) was the Wizard that Moriga was apprenticed under. The dude with his guts hanging out and the armor was the dude that made the Hraru. The last one was part of Radia's trash talk with Meg, but I forgot to include it when I was doing the chapter.

>>Other Endings

There were a lot of other potential endings, but the huge list narrowed down continually as the quest advanced. It was possible to murder off some of the Wizards (like both Marvels and Blacksoul) and so the machine remains hidden and both the Sea and Wizards remain, but that's kind of the worst ending to me. Shitworld stays.

There was no way to have magic begin to return to the world and also have the Sea not recede.

The Wall breaks if too many points worth of Wizards die, but you can murder a whole lot of them and still have it hold.

>>Who was Glory an Adept of? Who were the Wizards before they were Wizards?

I think these things can be figured out. I'd be interested to see what people guess. Some of them are kinda easy, and some of them are fairly hard.

You know Flare was the only Hraru to Ascend, so the rest were either Ravians, Gour, or Golden (no Ophians either - they came later). After a few people guess, I'll post the answers.

Glory, I think, is pretty easy to figure out. Some of the Wizards are really easy to eliminate (Meg [always takes reproductive capability] and Flare [all his Adepts look like "dragony"]), and Moriga can't make Adepts. Her Self-Confidence was what she lost.

God, this ended up long. Sorry. ;-;
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No. 30529 ID: c71597

I got another question. How does it feel now that the quest is over and do you have plans for any other ones?
>>
No. 30531 ID: ca77f5

WHAT WILL YOU CALL YOURSELF NOW THAT BITE QUEST HAD ENDED!?
>>
No. 30537 ID: 2563d4

>>340328
>Glory; her Self-Confidence was what she lost
- Meg/Flare/Moriga already out.
- Don't remember any adepts of Flails, and doesn't seem he'd be interested unless they're going to offer an interesting fuck or fight with him
- Blacksoul takes things that cause strife in adepts' life, so quite plausible
- Ryxix seems too out-and-out angry for anything so subtle
- Kshaara didn't recognise Glory as one of her own, for what little that's worth
- Radia doesn't allow people to cover their face, which is exactly what Glory does
- Marvels/Soulfire/Sorrows: no idea, really, except the latter two like neat order.

So, weak guess at Blacksoul.
>>
No. 30538 ID: bf1e7e

Blacksoul also takes things that are specifically useful to his alchemy, though. Self-confidence is possible, but doesn't quite seem to mesh with the other things he takes.

I'd call it as Queen of Sorrows, myself. You covered everyone else, I don't THINK it was Blacksoul (though I think he'd still be my #2 guess), it doesn't seem like the sort of thing marv would do while trying to maintain his 'nice guy' facade to the mortals, and it CAN'T be soulfire because Glory got transmutation powers out of the whole deal and he's fucking awful at it.
>>
No. 30546 ID: bf1e7e

>>340338

Also Queen of Sorrows loves her order and 'a place for everything and everything in its place.' An adept with no self-confidence would be far more likely to stay in its place.
>>
No. 30561 ID: 6071d3

BIG LIST O' QUESTIONS:

How would the story have most likely changed/ended if things went on autopilot? If there had been no Spikesby?

What was K'Shaara doing all that time between the intermission and suddenly ZOMG! HUBBY IS DEAD!

Can you briefly summarize what happened to the other wizards that were not specifically mentioned in the end?
Especially K'shaara and the Ophians, how she felt about Ryxix's death, etc. And what happened with Suri?

Why did Lord of Marvels attack K'Shaara anyway? Seems like that was his first mistake.

What would have happened if Marv succeeded? He seemed to think he was doing the right thing, calling the other wizards villains and such. And on that note, what were his real motives? Was he really just power mad, or did he think he was doing the right thing?

What would have likely happened if Sky had went in and spoken with Marvels? And why was he all cryptic instead of lying like a smooth operator?

Would Blacksoul's "grand reaping" plan have worked? I can't quite tell, but by the way he described Marv's machine and how magic works with the world it seems like it would've been a temporary patch at best, totally ineffective at worst.

I'm guessing Glory's wizard was either Marv and she was a sleeper agent or something, or she belonged to Sorrows. In any case, why can't she remember?

What became of Last Hraru?

What if spikesby had chugged of that progenitor blood? Or consumed some of Marvels' meaty shrapnel?

How did you decide which characters would be playable each chapter?
>>
No. 30564 ID: bf1e7e

Oh, I think I can field some of these!

>Why did Lord of Marvels attack K'Shaara anyway?

Opportunistic target. Either he was testing the antithesis ore out or trying to start the war then, but stopped when he realized that A: The antithesis ore didn't actually -kill- wizards and B: Ophian army + K'shaara blood would really help his plan.

>Was he really just power mad, or did he think he was doing the right thing?

Given that everything he said in the entire quest that we actually got ANY confirmation on ended up being a lie, it's a safe bet he was also lying about having the interests of the mortals in mind.

>And why was he all cryptic instead of lying like a smooth operator?

He DID lie. You silly person.

>I can't quite tell, but by the way he described Marv's machine and how magic works with the world it seems like it would've been a temporary patch at best,

Odds are this. There's no reason to doubt that it would have obliterated everything in the sea like Blacksoul thought it would, but with what we know now about the antithesis/magic relationship it probably wouldn't have actually removed the sea and more progenitors would simply come into being eventually.

>What became of Last Hraru?

Well, Spikesby DID go to live at flare's old place. Last Hraru probably lived there with him because they were friends.
>>
No. 30569 ID: 6071d3

>>340364
While your input is appreciated, I'll wait for a 100%, Word-of-God infallibly accurate answer from Tha Bawss before making up my mind.

>You silly person.
You're damn right I'm silly. The Intarnets is serious business. Far too serious to be taken seriously.
>>
No. 30572 ID: bf1e7e

>>340371

Hey, hey you.

Holizen didn't get an ending.

=<
>>
No. 30573 ID: 383006

>>340372

Blacksoul managed to keep her from dieing, but she was horribly maimed and sickly by the awful, cursed infections for the rest of her life.
>>
No. 30575 ID: 383006

>>So, weak guess at Blacksoul.

Correct. bf1e7e is right about it not being Marvels or Soulfire. It could have been Sorrows, but it's basically a crippling disadvantage that makes the Adept mostly useless. Blacksoul was really the only one who actively screwed over his Adepts like that.


>>How would the story have most likely changed/ended if things went on autopilot? If there had been no Spikesby?

Well, in a true autopilot with no input whatsoever, nothing changes. The system maintains an equilibrium like it is. Hopefully a Wizard finds the Soul Armor stuff, otherwise Oblivion Ending or Marvels ending.

>>What was K'Shaara doing all that time between the intermission and suddenly ZOMG! HUBBY IS DEAD!

Getting her stuff together to kill Lord of Marvels. Basically waiting for a good opportunity to strike and making sure that her intel on what everyone else was doing was accurate. She was trying not to draw any attention to herself because she didn't want to get in trouble for violating another Wizard's territory, so she was mostly laying low and gathering forces.

>>Can you briefly summarize what happened to the other wizards that were not specifically mentioned in the end?
>>Especially K'shaara and the Ophians, how she felt about Ryxix's death, etc. And what happened with Suri?

K'shaara regretted Ryxix's death, but blamed herself instead of Blacksoul (as indicated in the Glory denouement). She destroyed her newer Magical Creatures and was on board for working with Blacksoul to rebuild what they could of the pre War political structure. After Glory Ascended, she apprenticed under K'shaara, probably somewhat out of spite. She advanced very quickly and the Ryxix tower within sight of Suri, probably also out of spite. As Glory grew older, she mostly forgot what had happened and became cold and calculating like old K'shaara until the Heartsbane denouement.

K'shaara always struggled between her calculating, powerhungry nature, and what she saw as the just deserts she received from giving in to it. She martyred herself (not literally) by rebuilding Suri and remaining there and working directly with refugees/the restoration efforts, but she probably still ate people when she could get away with it.


Queen of Sorrows had to dismantle her territory completely. She apprenticed Wizards just like everyone else.

Childless Meg and Blacksoul worked together to sort of try to un mess her up. They failed. She got some small measure of horrid transmutation and some awful, cursed thaumaturgy, but it only decreased the radius of the terrible poison she leaked. She was a giant liability to every living thing, so she snuck away into the Wasteland before anyone could decide it would be easier to just off her. Some Ascendant Wizards would feel compelled to journey into the wasteland to go apprentice under her and learn how to make themselves into cursed witches.

>>Why did Lord of Marvels attack K'Shaara anyway? Seems like that was his first mistake.

He had no idea what the spears he made would do to other Wizards. Moriga would have been an easy target, but she was so weak that it might not generate good data. He also knew what K'shaara had been up to, and if the Spears had killed her, thought he could collect them again. If somebody found out, he could say that he found out about her transgressions and she was gunning for him. Once he realized she had to stay pincusioned, it made things tricky but not impossible. People probably wouldn't find out. Hopefully Ryxix would start killing other Wizards. Marvel's plan required that the remaining Wizards started fighting and dieing again. There would always be significant risk with any such plan.

>>What would have happened if Marv succeeded? He seemed to think he was doing the right thing, calling the other wizards villains and such. And on that note, what were his real motives? Was he really just power mad, or did he think he was doing the right thing?

Basically what Blacksoul said. No new Wizards would ever be created, and he would have almost unlimited power. He hated being bossed around and thought the pre-War Wizards that were in control were resistant to change and unnecessarily restrictive in the use of magic. He thought he could make the world a better place, but he was basically not all that stand up of a guy.

>>What would have likely happened if Sky had went in and spoken with Marvels? And why was he all cryptic instead of lying like a smooth operator?

He was cryptic because he couldn't tell the future and was therefore more likely to be right with vague predictions based off of good intel. He built an aura of power and mystique around himself to make him look very strong and also benevolent. Trying to convince someone implies that you are not in a position of power over them - they have some leverage to bargain. He was slick and smooth with the other Wizards though, although Blacksoul was suspicious and Moriga totally didn't buy it at all.

Also, he lied about basically everything to everybody. I'll have to double check to make sure I didn't slip up, but I'm pretty sure he never said anything that was true.

If Sky went in, he couldn't have let her leave. She would have told Blacksoul on him.

>>Would Blacksoul's "grand reaping" plan have worked? I can't quite tell, but by the way he described Marv's machine and how magic works with the world it seems like it would've been a temporary patch at best, totally ineffective at worst.

A patch. It would have killed everything in the Sea, destroyed the Wall, and then Antithesis would have begun spilling everywhere and Progenitors and Windborne showing up all over the place. Bad End.

>>I'm guessing Glory's wizard was either Marv and she was a sleeper agent or something, or she belonged to Sorrows. In any case, why can't she remember?

She can't remember because Golden were given to a Wizard as children. They grow up as Adepts, which is one of the reasons (along with the mask) that they are so strong. Most of them have no idea who they were apprenticed to.


>>What became of Last Hraru?

She lived very near Spikesby and Ria and was their buddy and stuff. She dealt with a lot of the people that would pilgrimage to visit him. She became mortal and died eventually, but outlived both Spikesby and Ria.

>>What if spikesby had chugged of that progenitor blood? Or consumed some of Marvels' meaty shrapnel?

Nothing bad or good.

>>How did you decide which characters would be playable each chapter?

Most of the time it was when I would need input on one matter because it would affect what Spikesby was doing next, or, towards the end, whether or not a character was going to survive the Endgame. I tried to keep things chronological, although Ryxix dies significantly earlier than the chapter before Glory's. I tried to make sure there was player input whenever possible for almost every major event. Often times, I would have to use the other characters to accomplish this. Once the players split the party up, this became really easy and useful.
>>
No. 30592 ID: 8e5ab8

>>340329

Well, it was a long Quest and I'm pretty satisfied overall, although I am a little sad that it's over.

I'm currently running Sammy's Adventure and I'm going to resurrect Lahamu as well.

As far as something colorful and long, [hurr hurr] we'll see.

>>340331

Do I really have to change my name?
>>
No. 30598 ID: e0c719

>>340392
Yes we are forcing you it's unanimous.

What's wrong with your FA name?
>>
No. 30712 ID: 6071d3

BIG LIST O' QUESTIONS, THE SEQUEL:

Spikesby's statue would seem to indicate he's regarded as something of a hero. Would you expand on that a bit?

What would super wizard [i]demigod[/s] Spikesby have been like? What did you mean by "Had a smaller chance for a good end?"

What would his powers be? New name? Would he be evil, self serving, or good? What would be the first few things he did with that power? Would he remember anything from his past life?

Were there any events or decisions you wish had been handled differently?

Was there a worst possible ending in which both the Sea of Oblivion and the "Dreaming" Peninsula were totally destroyed?

Why doesn't the Sea of Oblivion like water? Why didn't the wizards capitalize on this by separating a small land mass and living on islands in total safety?

Where does the Oblivion even come from? Space? Center of the Earth? Or does it just automagically spring into existence in the absence of magic?

What were the wizards' powers you didn't get to showcase? Marv, Moriga, Sorrows, K'shaara, and Ryxix either didn't show their powers or seemed pretty small potatoes compared to the others (although I know Moriga was supposed to be). So what were their magics like, combat and otherwise?

>Some of the Progenitors were kind of neat.
Well, don't let that creativity go waste, then. Tell us about them.

>Radia's trash talk with Meg.
Now's your chance! Let's hear it!

Was it even remotely possible for glory to help Ryxix? What probably would've happened if she'd have tried? What if, via the power of handwavium, she had suceeded?

What became Marv's hat?

... sequel?
>>
No. 30804 ID: 70e5c6

I second the idea of a sequel, or maybe even a spin-off. I loved this universe.

>>340512
>What would demigod Spikesby have been like?

Personally, I would have imagined him to be noble, humble and upstanding. His character was very brave and selfless for the most part. The only time I really felt he seemed even remotely evil is when he lied to Flails, but honestly I'd say it was a case of the ends justifying the means. Well, that and Flails is a dick.

As much effort as he put into saving the world, I'd imagine he'd at least try to preserve the sanctity of it.
>>
No. 30962 ID: 383006

BIG LIST O' QUESTIONS, THE SEQUEL:

>>Spikesby's statue would seem to indicate he's regarded as something of a hero. Would you expand on that a bit?

He did save the world.

>>What would super wizard demigod[/s] Spikesby have been like? What did you mean by "Had a smaller chance for a good end?"

>>What would his powers be? New name? Would he be evil, self serving, or good? What would be the first few things he did with that power? Would he remember anything from his past life?

This would have all been decided by the suggesters. Instead of Blacksoul bein like "wut boon you want?" it would have been something like [i]"Spikesby feels overwhelmed with vast power! Nothing can stand in his way! He in an invulnerable power - the other Wizards are like children to him! How does he reshape the world?


It's pretty easy to fuck that up.

>>Were there any events or decisions you wish had been handled differently?

Other than those few dialogue omissions I mentioned earlier, not really. I would have liked a little more Heartsbane and a little more development for Ria and Isenore.

>>Was there a worst possible ending in which both the Sea of Oblivion and the "Dreaming" Peninsula were totally destroyed?

It's really only one or the other.

>>Why doesn't the Sea of Oblivion like water? Why didn't the wizards capitalize on this by separating a small land mass and living on islands in total safety?

The Antithesis appeared wherever Wizards should be making magic. Moriga was fine because she is so smalltime.

>>Where does the Oblivion even come from? Space? Center of the Earth? Or does it just automagically spring into existence in the absence of magic?

That last one. It's Blacksoul's kind of shitty metaphor. The absence of magic filling space where it belonged created negative pressure, and eventually some other force poured through the eventual tears.

>>What were the wizards' powers you didn't get to showcase? Marv, Moriga, Sorrows, K'shaara, and Ryxix either didn't show their powers or seemed pretty small potatoes compared to the others (although I know Moriga was supposed to be). So what were their magics like, combat and otherwise?

Marvels actually did showcase his. He was casting an illusion over everything, so Meg couldn't see him or his machine. In his chapter, the description of the tower was stars with floating sigils - all illusions. Marvels was pretty smalltime though. Spikesby saw through it because 'resistant to mentalism'

K'shaara used mentalism to make people obsessed with her.

Ryxix was a pretty good transmuter, but was mostly huge and terrible.

Sorrows was noncorporeal and mostly a thaumaturgist.

>Some of the Progenitors were kind of neat.
Well, don't let that creativity go waste, then. Tell us about them.

meh.

>Radia's trash talk with Meg.
Now's your chance! Let's hear it!

meh.

>>Was it even remotely possible for glory to help Ryxix? What probably would've happened if she'd have tried? What if, via the power of handwavium, she had suceeded?

It would have been possible. It would have been difficult - I didn't think of anything in particular that could have worked, but I never foreclosed on the possibility.

>>What became Marv's hat?

Spikesby kept it.

>>... sequel?

No, I think this is the story I should have told with the setting, and I don't really intend to revisit it right now. I am working on something else atm, and maybe after I finish the new project, I might come back to the setting. If I do, it will not be with the original cast (it will be after all of the mortals have died).
>>
No. 30971 ID: 2563d4

>>340762
>I think this is the story I should have told with the setting, and I don't really intend to revisit it right now.
Sounds reasonable. It was a pretty weird and interesting place to explore and I think the familiarity of a second pass would ruin that.
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