>This has caused a lot of people to consider stopping their quests and considering whether or not they want to stay on this website, because they don't want to associate with people who enjoy a thoughtless piece of trash like Diana.
How true is this

>>327115

Very.

Shitty quests getting that much attention in the light of good quests not receiving any causes people to question the value of putting in the effort to make a good quest.

These are also the sort of people who wouldn't intentionally make a shitty quest, so that wouldn't be an option either.

>>327112
Hey Beakie, how come you aren't saying anything about Pink Dragon? Actively seducing a guy is WAY more embarrassing than trying to keep a ratgirl from masturbating, I'd say.

>>327116
So... who exactly is considering quitting?

Oh, another thing. Why would people posting in crappy quests matter? I think you're confusing 'getting discouraged' with 'getting jealous'. There's nothing preventing suggesters from posting in multiple threads. In fact that is WHY 'bad' quests that have funny/sexy elements get posted in so much.

People like to just mess around in a quest they don't have much of an investment in. Look at all the suggestions Vyt got that would've ended badly!

>>327117
Pink Dragon is Numbers doing a parody so subtle that only he sees it as a parody, and everyone else is dismissing it as gay dragon quest and nothing more, and for very good reasons.

>>327119

>So... who exactly is considering quitting?

In my case, it has less to do with quitting than deciding not to bother getting back into questing. If people aren't going to respond to something that I'm going to put effort into, I'm not going to put the effort in. And something shitty and worthless isn't worth producing in the first place. The communities decision to lavish attention on anything with LOLSEX to the exclusion of other content, and you are a fucking liar if you try to claim that there is any more to it than that, was one of the things that caused me to slack off on updating my quests in the first place.

BUT IT'S JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE INVESTED IN BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH is a bullshit reason as well. If you give a shit about something, you should support it. In this case, the only ways to show a questor that their quest is appreciated are to discuss it or reply to it. Sitting around going 'hurrrr don't wanna fuck up' when nothing is going on just shows that you don't really give a shit about the quest continuing.

>>327117
I don't think I can explain why I feel this way, but I find Masturbating Rat Quest way, way more unsettling and irritating than Pink Dragon. Maybe it's because Verramar wears a business suit and appears to have a life and a professional career, or maybe because he's actively in pursuit of a goal, instead of just stumbling around vapidly and then performing actions totally unrelated to suggestions while the PoV randomly zooms in on someone's butt for no reason.

It's like having a quest where the goal is to set yourself on fire, and you're playing a professional stuntman who is all geared up for setting himself on fire, and you have to collect protective gel and flammable liquids. And then you have a quest where you wander around slackjawed and burst into flames for no reason and then cry because you're on fire now, and dozens of replies are all 'oh no now you are on fire go get some water' while secretly licking their lips at all the fire.

...Or maybe it's just that Vyt's writing style sucks the appeal out of sexual antics and makes everything seem weird.

So um

What exactly are you asking people to DO? This seems to not be that much related to 'all races are human' issues.

If it's to post in serious quests more often and try to avoid the 'don't post because I might make it worse' conundrum, I wholeheartedly support that. I'm going to start suggesting in more quests.

If it's to blacklist silly quests, -1 impulse weight.

>>327125
A parody? Really. That's not what I heard. I was under the impression that he started it because he was getting tired of all the homoerotic suggestions in AQ and wanted to give people an outlet for that sort of thing.

I can't think of anything it could be parodying anyway. VoL doesn't fit- too many elements are missing.

>>327127
You misunderstand. I'm saying that people post more in low-brow quests because then they can SUGGEST ANYTHING THEY WANT without worrying about losing something they care about. It's easy and fun to just jump right in and follow your first impulse. My reaction to Vyt's quest was "What, did he really just start a quest with masturbation? That's pathetic" and then went "Oh well I may as well play along, should be amusing" and hey what do you know, it turned out to be HILARIOUS. I don't care if vyt intended it to be serious or not. It was funny. Doubly so if he actually expected us to feel sorry for the girl because of her 'problem'. It's ABSURD, and people love absurdity.

Do you think people were actually participating in the quest because they expected PORN?

Oh yeah, that reminds me. Please name a bad quest involving sex that isn't funny yet gets lots of suggestions. Or do you think that the simple act of focusing on sex makes a quest bad?

Would you consider Karen's Heart to be a bad quest? It got an average amount of suggestions despite having LOTS of sexual content. What about Eivr, or Quest With No Name (Oren)? Those have sexual content in them, and have had problems with suggestions until recently. How about Bubble Bucket? It had a butt shot early on yet didn't attract a crowd back then. Designer Dong! Now there's an awesome example of sexual content! Past character creation (which ALWAYS gets lots of suggestions, for the same reasons I said bad quests sometimes do) it had about an average following.

>>327134
So, you're less unsettled by it because the main character is more... mature? Despite the quest being WAY more focused on actual sex? There hasn't even been any nudity in vyt's quest.

To me though... I am most disturbed by the constant smirk on Verremar's face and the tendency for him to go "hmmrr" as if he's just barely restraining himself from going "OH MURR". He's a creepy bastard. The casual way he talks about fucking just makes it worse. There's no dignity in his actions or attitude. He has no shame.

At least the rat has the decency to understand that what she does is wrong, but can't control herself. The quest is about AVOIDING sexual content anyway, so what is the complaint about, here? Cheesecake?

What happened to that guy who insisted that we need more porn in quests? What happened to all the people that agreed? WHY DIDN'T ANY OF YOU SAY SOMETHING THEN?

Oh, and one more thing.

Volume of suggestions is not a good way to determine if people are enjoying a quest. QUALITY of suggestions, and the number of DEDICATED suggesters, however...

>>327138
>So, you're less unsettled by it because the main character is more... mature? Despite the quest being WAY more focused on actual sex?
Basically yes. I also didn't find Karen's Heart offensive, for a similar reason.

>There hasn't even been any nudity in vyt's quest.
And I doubt there's ever going to be, because we're doing a paint-by-number and the numbers say you only tease.

I agree with Ratquest being embarassing and focused in terrible fanservice, but as other people point out, other quests do the same and are not given the same treatment.

>Pink Dragon more mature.

I really disagree. The dragon jumped the second character he met, and there is no backstory or anything. It is also the only quest that I know where the sugesters are actually telling the author how to sex up the lizard man. Wow. So subtle.

You know, while there's totally reason to have this here argument, wouldn't it make more sense to have it somewhere other than hanging off the thread for serious grown-up talk on how to run things?

I just want to mention I completely agree with a594b9 on everything he's said so far.

>>327137

>I was under the impression that he started it because he was getting tired of all the homoerotic suggestions in AQ and wanted to give people an outlet for that sort of thing.

I figured it was more of a 'you have made your big gay bed, and now must slumber gayly in it' thing. A 'if people want gay, I'll just draw a bunch of really gay and we'll see how they like THAT!'

Also I don't really like Pink Dragon, either. But there's no denying the suggestion volume! And look at that, it's a quest about naught but fucking.

<i>Do you think people were actually participating in the quest because they expected PORN? </i>

Given the discussions that go on nigh-constantly in the IRC?

yes.

>Would you consider Karen's Heart to be a bad quest? It got an average amount of suggestions despite having LOTS of sexual content.

Karen's Heart got a lot more suggestions whenever the sexual content rolled around. The quest was also ultimately abandoned because the community decided to just dick around, look for things to fuck, and piss away the boons immediately in the starting area of the quest rather than actually pursue any sort of goal beyond finding weird-looking things to fuck.

>At least the rat has the decency to understand that what she does is wrong, but can't control herself. The quest is about AVOIDING sexual content anyway, so what is the complaint about, here? Cheesecake?

You seem to be misunderstanding.

Ratsturbation quest is not what is making me reconsider getting back into questing.

It's just one of the guards striding the parapet on fort shit.

>Volume of suggestions is not a good way to determine if people are enjoying a quest

If there are few suggestions and no discussions (with the IRC often being occupied by the latest LOL LESBIANS updates and Shot Trip/Goldude mercilessly harping their text quests), what is there to let the questors know that their efforts are appreciated?

>QUALITY of suggestions,

You say that like there is some sort of massive gulf between the quality of suggestions in ratsturbation and quests that aren't shit.

>and the number of DEDICATED suggesters, however...

So, how many people posted suggestions between/after every update in Ratsturbation? HURR DURR IT'S JUST BECAUSE IT'S FUN AND EASY is all well and good, but that only says that the community only gives a shit about terrible FUN AND EASY quests and it's generally a waste of time to do otherwise.

>>327149
As just an idle bystander in the whole scheme of these dramatic /quest/ shenanigans, I humbly ask you to continue questing. I don't know who you are or what quest/s you've done, but I just think it would be a shame for this sort of thing to happen.

I mean, I'm certainly sure Vyt had no intention of making a quest purely to defer people from questing.

I just don't like losing people. :c

>>327127
>>327149
You should get back into questing because I LIKE YOUR QUESTS DAMMIT.

Especially Boon. :<

>What happened to that guy who insisted that we need more porn in quests? What happened to all the people that agreed? WHY DIDN'T ANY OF YOU SAY SOMETHING THEN?
I was asleep.

I have really grown to dislike how much people just hop on to anything with porn in it the moment the porn appears, or looks like it might appear. tgchan is getting a reputation for being a horribly sleazy place, and I am not happy with this. We should be about telling stories, not about fap. As much as I loved Rape Quest, I fear it set a horrible precedent. Rape Quest was quirky, fun, and about defending a poor girl who walked right into terrible situations. Purple dragon? Ratgirl? Karen's Heart? VoL? When did we stop having fun and start being faggots?

On a related note there has never been anything pornographic on this site worth using as fap material, IMO. I for one would appreciate it if everyone would fap before coming here so we could actually be serious for a change. A community like this should be about the art of the story telling. The enjoyment of the game. The improvement of people in a relatively supportive, amateur setting. These are all respectable reasons for a site like this to exist, but it often seems like our only purpose is gay and/or furry porn. And as someone who just wants to set up a game to play with all of you, it is unsettling. I'm not saying every quest should be SERIOUS BUSINESS, and that NO FUN ALLOWED, but god dammit guys we can still have fun without being lecherous hornballs.

I'm still going to be here and questing, but mainly because my disgust does not outweigh my love for the medium, and also because of the rule that says I can kick anything I dislike out of my quests. I do not know if this will always be the case, but I hope to continue questing here for as long as possible. I am just a bit unhappy with where we ended up, and am disappoint son.

>>327155
tanoshiinai no kisatsu

>>327149
>Given the discussions that go on nigh-constantly in the IRC?
You say that as if sexual discussion doesn't happen in most IRC channels. Just face it- most people think about sex a lot. On the internet, they will talk about sex a lot.

>Karen's Heart got bad suggestions
That's part of my point. Other quest authors can look at that and see that the sexual content is attracting non-serious suggesters and therefore they should not feel unappreciated. Plus, I was trying to point out that the volume of suggestions does not directly correspond to sexual content. There is more than one element in play here!

>If there are few suggestions and no discussions (with the IRC often being occupied by the latest LOL LESBIANS updates and Shot Trip/Goldude mercilessly harping their text quests), what is there to let the questors know that their efforts are appreciated?
First off, don't fucking lump Shot in with Goldude. Shot doesn't beg for suggestions, he just notifies us of updates. Second, Shoujen is not as LOL LESBIANS as it appears to be. Most of the quest deals with the fight against the BBEG.
Outside of those objections, I do agree with you here. GOOD QUESTS DO NOT GET ENOUGH SUGGESTIONS. I am merely saying here that bad quests with/without sexual content are NOT the cause of that, and shouldn't be looked upon as what the community wants!

>You say that like there is some sort of massive gulf between the quality of suggestions in ratsturbation and quests that aren't shit.
Yes. Yes I am. Half the posts in that quest are either trolling or just not contributing anything of use.

>So, how many people posted suggestions between/after every update in Ratsturbation?
You might have a point if it weren't for the fact that the quest JUST STARTED. You can't have "dedicated" posters when the quest hasn't been around that long. Look at all the quests that fizzled out right after the first chapter! That is what I refer to when I talk of dedicated posters.

>>327155
>On a related note there has never been anything pornographic on this site worth using as fap material, IMO.
Are you counting the fanart threads, or just the quests? I'd agree with the latter.

>it often seems like our only purpose is gay and/or furry porn.
I disagree with this. Outside of the fanart threads there really is a low amount of sexual content in tgchan. Vyt is really the worst offender when it comes to that, though... just from how inappropriate the sexual content tends to be. Gnoll and Larro actually have reasonable situations when that stuff happens. Then of course there's Brom, who does sexual content in the most appropriate manner I've ever seen.

Karen's Heart was a horrible failure of a quest.

It didn't get many suggestions for a few reasons. The first 'chapter' was me barely-coherently-scrawling while I was drunk off my ass. It turned a lot of people off and gave a lot of people the wrong impression of the quest. Suggestions picked up after a couple chapters. Also, the porn was creepy and not mainstream. I guarantee that if all the porn was hot, big titted lesbians, I would have been rolling in suggestions. I was told more than once that serious people interested in the story did not want to continue reading because they were grossed out by the pornographic content.

Instead of it being people who wanted to read a creepy, dark adventure with creepy sex, it was some people who wanted a creepy adventure, some people who wanted RELATIONSHIPS and some people who wanted PORN. The first category, the ones I would rather to have had in my quest, were the tiny minority compared to the other two groups, with PORN being the biggest. I should have known better than to ever start it, really.

Because of the nature of the boards, most people don't want to invest in a story. It's hard to pay attention to what is going on and what has gone on, especially when the plot is complicated, because there are so many quest and most are usually updating at the same time. It's easier to contribute to a silly quest and just read the serious ones when they're not updating, but this makes things a lot less fun for the authors of those quests.

Look at early suggestions when the board was smaller - much more detailed suggestions that were the product of some level of thought and discussion. I don't want to be all HURR SUGGESTING WRONG or anything like that, but most of my most recent suggestions have been to do the obvious thing. The very first suggestion to the most recent update was to do something that directly contradicted what was said in the post, and somebody else asked a question that was answered in the text of the post. It wasn't like that before.

That being said, more suggestions would foment discussion and the quality of the quest would improve.

I have no desire to write a webcomic. I have no desire to write a webcomic where I basically present binary choices and essentially have one of those choices randomly picked for me.

Wow, lots of offtopic crap in here.

Here's another addition from me. I'm still not known here, so I'll leave someone else to put it where they desire in the wiki. Or if it even belongs there:
Trolling. You will be trolled. How you deal with the trolling will change how the other suggestions are made. If you ignore the inappropriate posts, they will eventually slow down to a trickle. The other suggestions will be much more serious in tone.
If you go with the occasional troll, then you will still get them occasionally. The quest will be less serious during that time. The suggestions will be less focused. This can be used as a relief valve when necessary. Unless you want a completely serious quest.
Giving into the trolls completely. This will generate a random quest. Things will happen when they happen. There will be little direction. That isn't to say it doesn't work though. You will usually get more posts from this because you have given the trolls an unfettered outlet. The quest will almost never be serious, but that doesn't mean it wont be fun.
Replying to trolls directly is the last approach. By actually taking time to address them, negatively or positively, you encourage them. You are giving them attention, and if you do it to much, it can get out of hand. You will get more posts, because the trolls like attention, but you will get more stress from it. Constantly stopping things, or even just saying a comment about it, disrupts the flow. For the readers, addressing them directly puts a hold on whatever is going on. This is also done for instruction in rules and such, but if you do it too much, people will lose interest the topic.

>>327138

> To me though... I am most disturbed by the constant smirk on Verremar's face and the tendency for him to go "hmmrr" as if he's just barely restraining himself from going "OH MURR". He's a creepy bastard. The casual way he talks about fucking just makes it worse. There's no dignity in his actions or attitude. He has no shame.

There's a lot of truth in those words.

>>327161
Trolling is against the rules. If you feel someone is trolling in your quest, report the post to the mods.

>>327137

Verremar is a parody of a guy I actually met. With overlays from few other people.

And yes. AlienQuest got too "OMG TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES" and "HURF DURF HADDO GHEY EKS DEE". So I let it sit in a freezer for few weeks and started Pink Dragon. Pink Dragon idea actually came from that browser game and that everyone was a male dragon trying to mate with that male black dragon. And as I remember I thought it would be a funny idea to make a thread about a gay dragon that started his own private 'hoard'.

>>327142

I never thought it would be great for the main character to randomly burst into a "HEY I'M VERREMAR AND I'M DOING THIS AND THAT." There's few things that suggest he has a backstory, but no one queried him about that.

Seriously, I'm not gonna ruin people fun finding out the details and asking. Stuff.

And uhhh... about the lizardman... Pink Dragon is more freeform than AlienQuest, if that's what suggesters wanted, I did that... sorry. I kind of feel that I should leave at least hints on possible places to go. because otherwise it will turn into a 'wander around the desert quest'.

>>327151


>I don't know who you are or what quest/s you've done,

Deep, Chasing Stars, Boon, Silhouette, Plessy Quest, Pokémon Quest Gaiden, and I'm (ostensibly) doing the current chapter of CBSF.

For the record, it isn't the board's faggotry or my own self-loathing that is preventing me from working more on CBSF. Coloring takes forever =<

O_o at this thread.
Just O_o.

I must admit to having mixed feelings about this. On one hand I am a little worried about tgchan's reputation, and the reputation of quests in general. I don't want to see a medium of expression I enjoy degrade into poorly written fapfics. On the other hand I just want to slap you drama queens. Seriously. Were you guys surprised to find that sex sells? Well congratulations, you've figured out what every advertiser, movie director, producer and every human being on the planet has known from day one. Getting pissed off that something like ratquest gets more attention than your lovingly crafted magnum opus is patently absurd. For one, the volume of suggestions mean shit. Secondly, people do post in multiple threads, so it's not really attention removed from your quest. If you're really struggling for suggestions, maybe it's a good time to take another look at your quest, maybe there's something wrong with it? Maybe you're posting at odd times, maybe you did a poor job characterising, maybe you scared away potential readers by being too confusing. Take a moment to read through the quest, from the start. With any luck, you're able to find a few flaws in time to correct them. If you find it impossible to fix them, it's no shame to use your new wisdom to start a new quest.
Besides, despite what people seem to think, Rat Quest isn't that bad a quest. Lighthearted, introduced the characters quickly and effectively, npc's are decently characterized, expressive and clear art, fast updates. I seriously suspect all this fuss about it being a shitty quest is just you, yes, YOU, being butthurt over the amount of suggestions it gets.

Heh, looks like I got into lecture mode there. I don't consider myself a particularly brilliant quest author. I happened to get lucky with making Tiffany somewhat popular, and frankly now I spend most of my time hoping like hell I don't screw it up. If I ever do figure out what made it a success, I'll let you know.

>>327175

>missing the point entirely

welcome to reading comprehension.

>And the worst part?

>The very worst part?

Seemed like the point to me.
I agreed with the OP about the race-borrowing, so I didn't feel the need to argue that point. But yes, if a character deviates from the norm in some way, it should be done with some intention, not randomly.

>>327175

Wow, that's extremely offensive. I could care less how many suggestions anyone gets, much less me, as long as I get enough to keep updating.

However, I don't have to like something that I think is shitty just because it's better than Twilight. The whole quest is a railroad running on wheels of girljizz. Read the suggestions, then read the next frame. If suggester input doesn't matter, then say "cutscene." Its the same cheap shit Vyt did in Sanya that made it largely shitty. It took him all of one chapter to put in rape references. Super classy, guy. The art is OK, I'm not going to bitch about that, except for the horribly, horribly off model Nevrean. I pretty much agree with Beakie saying "lol these are popular, lets put these in"

That being said, I don't hate Vyt or anything, and I'm glad he gets plenty of suggestions and continues to quest. I've always said that lighthearted or 'fun' quests get more suggestions for a variety of reasons. No one wants to be the one to screw up a serious or dangerous quest and get the character killed. I have always understood that, and I'm fine with that. I'd rather people take time and think of something clever than just post some random bullshit. It's more fun for me, and I hope more fun for them.

I am offended by you assuming anyone who doesn't like Vyt's quest is just jealous, though, that's a close-minded, shitty way to behave.

That being said, I do like Tiffany, and am glad you're having fun with it.

>>327174

CSeal, I think you're overreacting over all this. I understand what you're going through, but that shouldn't be reason to quit, or even consider stop caring about the quality of your quests.

No offense, but it feels like you haven't noticed that this is how the world works. For one reason or another, it's always the cheap and mediocre media and entertainment the one that gets more publicity and followers.

Good authors don't stop writing even when they know that they will never be as successful than the creator of Twilight. Same thing happens in movies, tv, music, video games... You can always think of shitty products that trample over the quality stuff. Why did you think that Quests would be different?

That shouldn't discourage you, quite the opposite. See, while those quests get more attention, that attention is only temporal, they're easily forgotten. Nobody remembers them a month after they stop.

But people keep putting Deep in their Top 5 of favorite quests, you keep getting fanart, even when you update like once every month >:V

So, sorry about the rant, and yeah, I read your last post and I know that you ain't going to quit.. I just think that you are focusing the matter in the wrong way, when everybody loves your work and are constantly asking you to update.

Whoa there man. Chose my words poorly. I didn't mean to say that anyone who doesn't like it is just being jealous. I only made the observation that it doesn't deserve the shitstorm it's getting from a lot of people. The butthurt bit was just an offhand remark, that came out as more offensive than I intended. I apologize.

I just went back and looked the quest over. The only noticeably railroaded bits I could see were the end of chapter 1 and the discussion at the start of chapter 2. Didn't seem too bad in that regard.

Maybe I'm biased because I wasn't attempting to post at those times. Dunno.

>>327181

>it's always the cheap and mediocre media and entertainment the one that gets more publicity and followers.

What makes you think that it's MY quests that I'm talking about? The only quest I had that didn't get enough attention was Silhouette, and I am always the first to say that Deep gets too much (Chasing Stars and especially Boon are better quests).

Again, Ratsturbation Quest isn't the problem with tgchan. It's a SYMPTOM of the problem. I don't even hate Vyt, I just hate all of his quests =V

>>327183

And I say that it isn't a problem of TGCHAN, is a problem of our society in general, it's useless to hope that this is going to be different.

>>327174
>and I'm (ostensibly) doing the current chapter of CBSF.
Good job on stalling one of the few remaining good quests then.

>>327185

Glad to know I'm doing something right.

Anonymous 2010/06/11(Fri)15:28 No. 17389 ID: 620bfb
File 127629531661.jpg - (54.00KB , 720x576 , 01ck0.jpg )

Gentlemen, you can't discuss in here! This is Quest-Discussions.

less serious quests are easier to suggest for
people like sex
one-shots or first chapters don't require reading up on previous chapters

stop being little babies, if you're making a quest just for the popularity and not because you enjoy it and want to share a story you're doing it wrong anyway ☃

Shot!H508X.HbJ6 2010/06/11(Fri)15:59 No. 17392 ID: e31d52
File 127629718794.png - (13.13KB , 640x480 , ffs.png )

>Blatant accusations of... What?

Beakie, I thought better of you.


God forbid Vyt draws anything remotely sexual, borrows content from a guy who, thus far, has been INCREDIBLY chill about it, and OH MY GOD he has sex?! How utterly unforgivable! Thank goodness you pointed out this horrific transgression to the rest of us! Now he can be properly banned!

Yeah. Right.

The reason I'm being so vitriolic here is because I find it distasteful to hate another person's work for reasons such as these and to sling mud like this for the mere cause of... well, mud slinging. Just as terrible are the metathreads on /tg/ screaming about how 'their board' is being infested with touhou.

No quest is, by content, inherently inferior or superior to any other. Period. To say so is elitism of the greatest and silliest order. You cannot say all quests with sex are badm you cannot say all text quests are bad, you cannot say all vyt quests are bad, either. Nore can you point at him and say "He's so evil, stealing content from others!" because, hell, I don't see any fucking Snikts walking the halls of the ratgirl's school! It's not your content to defend! If Lucid wanted him to stop, sure, I'd be behind it all the way. But no. You don't have the right to barge in like this and make demands for other people.

>>327191
Lawyerdog is honestly correct for once.

Beakie, I like you as an author, but don't do this to yourself.

>>327192
Saying all quests by a certain author are good/bad is more valid than judging it by content, though. A good author can make almost anything interesting, or a bad author can make almost anything uninteresting.

If you guys were actually interested in changing things and not just whining about the community uselessly you would be suggesting things like a NSFW quest and a SFW quest board.

>>327193
>If you guys were actually interested in changing things and not just whining about the community uselessly you would be suggesting things like a NSFW quest and a SFW quest board.

This isn't a bad idea. Honestly, I see a lot of value in it.

>>327194
Every community has upsets and conflict and DRAMA.

Isn't /tgchan/ more about fun than an having art statement? Just find a quest you like and chill with it if you're a suggestor, and if you're a quest maker, draw what's fun as well as chillin' in the quests you like. Hell, even in some you don't, because posting ironically is awesome.

Be a bro, my fellow questers. Stop playa' hatin' go bump fists with a guy you don't like

Also Shot, man, why you be avatar faggin'? Shit ain't cool, dawg

>>327198
I'm don't even know anymore if that ironic shit-posting or an actual opinion.

>>327193
This is a bad idea. I don't want to go to NSFW if that board is all silly and gay.

Also, I'm just generally calling Shot Trip a faggot here for so thoroughly defeating an argument that no one in the thread made. Good job.

>>327201
It's a dumb idea but it would actually have a chance to change something rather than posting threads whining about the community. Insulting people is really not a very good way to get them to do what you want!

>>327203
>calling people whiny little babies
>implying that insulting people doesn't help
Good job there dude.

Gnoll 2010/06/11(Fri)16:44 No. 17405 ID: 8c0848
File 127629989617.png - (14.82KB , 717x620 , Uhh.png )

>>327198
Yeah, stop all the avatar faggotry. It's killing the board!

>>327204
What's wrong with babies do you have something against babies? It wasn't an insult.

>>327205
Gnoll, you know better than that. You're allowed that because its tradition for you to be toting your avatar all over the place. Like SDF too.

holy shit i finally got my your and you're together yeeeesss.

SFW and NSFW split won't solve anything and may cause more problems.

To everyone in this discussion: QUIT WHINING OR I WILL BE FORCED TO SMACK YOU WITH MY TROUT!

teamsleep 2010/06/11(Fri)18:15 No. 17415 ID: 0f9dad
Audio b15_Apna_Sangheet_Sings_Apna_SangheetRuled_by_the_.mp3 - (6.29MB , b15 Apna Sangheet Sings Apna SangheetRuled by the .mp3 )

>>327213
Get a worthwhile fish to smack with first, like a sturgeon or something.

Also I am reading this thread with this in the backround and it's making everything terribly comedic.

First off, I'd like to say that everyone in this thread, with very few exceptions, are being gigantic faggots, and you just need to chill the fuck out. None of this shit is that big a deal.

Also I agree with Lawyer Dog.

>>327216
Yeah but that was still a pretty cool song.

>>327217
Could be. I don't know the language.

>>327219
I have no clue. Says Bhangra though when I look up the band name, but this is a remix from Mindsweeper Suite.

>you cannot say all vyt quests are bad, either.

I can and do say that.

You can't stop me.

>>327201
>no one in the thread made
I would like to refer you to this:
>>327155
>Purple dragon? Ratgirl? Karen's Heart? VoL? When did we stop having fun and start being faggots?

Anonymous 2010/06/11(Fri)19:47 No. 17432 ID: 9cb4b3
File 127631086729.png - (77.35KB , 378x338 , HE HE HE.png )

>No quest is, by content, inherently inferior or superior to any other. Period. To say so is elitism of the greatest and silliest order. You cannot say all [...] text quests are bad, you cannot say all vyt quests are bad, either.

Image related.

Though really, it's not that the quest has sexual content, it's that it's trying way too hard to sexualize the main characters in otherwise boring situations, like giving an ass shot when people are talking in an office. The quest crams cheesecake down the viewer's throat as if to say "No wait! Don't go! There will be sex later at some point!"

Now whenever Lucid or Seal create Johnnias Dragonraper quest or Rape Quest gets continued, that would be when I would expect sex to be a driving force of both entertainment and humor.

As a sidenote, while I don't read text quests nor do I believe them to be inherently terrible, I would question the amount of effort put into one when it isn't even proofread for spelling errors when posted. If a quest author is going to at least do a text quest, therefore by default putting in half if not much less than half of the effort other quest authors are going to clock in, they should at least proofread their posts before posting them.

Oh, and another thing:

While I know it's not exactly my fight to say what happens to a particular Quest-related race, I can still be pissed off about it.

Like if someone decided to write about a klingon, and then made that klingon a Harry Potter wizard who worked at Hogwarts, I think a star trek fan could be reasonably pissed off.

>>327167
Considering the way Sul is dressed from the get go (latex groin emphasising outfit with exposed thighs) I'm not sure what you wanted, Sigma

Weaver 2010/06/11(Fri)20:06 No. 17438 ID: b4b04d
File 127631199682.gif - (17.29KB , 279x341 , blingbling.gif )

c'mon guys can't we all just get along
and never fight
at all
on the internet
ever

let's all put on big smiles and pretend we're happy

c'mon guys no fighting
guys seriously I mean it

>Like if someone decided to write about a klingon, and then made that klingon a Harry Potter wizard who worked at Hogwarts

brb, starting new quest

>>327235
If you remove the word "reasonably" that could be true.

>>327215
Oh you faggot, you did not just insult trout.

I actually like that rat quest. I don't give a damn if the races are distinct or off model or whatever, and I wouldn't expect as many differences in a modern type setting anyway. As for popularity, I like what I like and it's the same with everyone else. I like them no matter high or low "quality" as you call it, and dislike them the same.

My only complaint is a lack the suggestions influence on the story, but I can excuse that to it being the introductory chapter.

Jeeze we didnt have to make a big deal about it, its not like its highschool.

(well ok it is for some of you guys)

I think the thing is that some feel like they put a lot of work into their quests and then get "upstaged" by the relatively more freeform, less planning/writing intensive sexyquests, like Ratsturbation or whatever we're calling it these days.
I can understand (and sort of empathize since I've been there myself) with these views. But in the end you just have to face facts and admit that people will inevitably comment on things they want to comment on. It's sort of what imageboards are for, in the end. As long as people are having fun, and not carrying over that less serious style of suggesting into the quests with more gravitas behind them, then it's possible to live and let live, I think.
Now while I am in no way saying we shouldn't have this sort of discussion, and I don't intend to be trying to discipline people for dissing all up in questdis, I am saying that it's getting a little vitriolic and I just wanted to state a more moderate opinion before we take sides. Sorry if that makes me sound self-righteous or egomaniacal. Maybe I should have chosen my words better.

So yeah, it sometimes pisses me off that I spend a lot of time on an update or a chapter or whatever and post it and get three or four suggestions and then someone posts a butt with some text or something and gets 10 suggestions.
But if you look a little closer at those 10 suggestions, they often all suggest generally the same thing, usually having to do with getting nakeder in some way. Which works for the butts quest just fine, and perhaps not for a quest where more important decisions need to be made. Hell I'm just grateful I get 4 or 5 suggestions as it is.
So I think the number of suggestions doesn't so much denote increased readership or attention so much as it denotes more open suggestions. Plus, the usually simpler nature of these quests' stories (You are a thing. Fuck some other things) means that keeping track of and commenting on them are easier. Those of us who make more grandiose stuff don't have to like it but there it is.

Oh and Vyt I will never forgive you for keeping us from that Predator :I

Okay who the hell first brought up this "jealousy" thing because that isn't even the issue. I will admit occasionally being jealous of, say, the sheer amount of posts that Weaver and TestPattern and Reaver might get even when they are not posting anything, but that's jealousy because I am not as good as those people. I get enough suggestions reliably to continue questing, and even with some leeway for what to do, and I could not be happier about it. Suggestion volume is actually really good lately, and one of the ways in which tgchan has grown since this time last year. Amid all this hate I will take one moment to say you guys are pretty awesome at suggesting lately, and it is really helping this community to flourish.

And yes, it is flourishing, in spite of all this rage and drama mongering going on right in here. We have at least 4 quests actively posted in at any given moment, and it is not unusual to have more than 10 "sessions" at the same time. You guys are awesome and this site is a pretty great place to run a collaborative story telling game.

And that is exactly why I am disappoint about all of this. We are a great place for the questan, but no one will come here to quest. We are almost a closed community. Newcomers to the site will almost certainly pick up on the sleaziness of this place very quickly, be it from the naked guy ripping out hearts as the title image of our fanart thread, or the 500 suggestions in a quest like Diana. You don't have to look very far to find examples.

And its not like we can't behave. /meep/, the post anything you want board, is essentially SFW! And yet people rage to the high heavens over the minor content restrictions on their porn, because we want to have SOME kind of standards. Oh noes, the evil mods said no guro. Well, we are not a fetish site, contrary to appearances.

Tgchan is an imageboard with the modus operandi of telling stories. In all the drama and the rage we seem to be forgetting that. It feels really weird agreeing wholeheartedly with Lawyerdog, but he's absolutely right:

>if you're making a quest just for the popularity and not because you enjoy it and want to share a story you're doing it wrong anyway
This.

Let's hear you say words, in the context of this thread, about Ruby, Dorf and Joan.

Also, this thread doesn't really encourage starting a quest:
1) It's hard to see anything about one's quest idea that doesn't in some way - directly or indirectly, through some technicality or just because - offend rules or sensibilities.
2) Quality seems irrelevant. Making an effort seems like a waste of time because either a) you don't get suggestions just because the quest isn't "fun" so people are too afraid of rocks falling to post, or b) everyone will like it because it's a quest and you're not supposed to say anything bad about anything ever, so there's no real critique, robbing the GM from any active improvement in terms of art and storytelling.
3) Less than ideal community judgment. Your "good" quest is equal to a "bad" quest just because some people (could be just one loud guy or the GM's "friend") like the "bad" quest and because it's not "allowed" to consider something "bad" or sub-par just because people have different tastes or something about "live and let live", etc.

>>327238
No. Seriously, until this thing is resolved one way or another, even if just agreeing to disagree, just "getting along" will be nothing but Stalinist propaganda and censorship. And personally I don't believe in "agreeing to disagree", there needs to be clear lines and decisions, so that people who disagree can leave for greener pastures instead of being stuck in an eternal limbo of political powerplays and cockfencing.

I can't count how many of my cents that is.

>>327232

>Now whenever Lucid or Seal create Johnnias Dragonraper quest

But Johniass was only funny for like, the first story. All of the copycat stories were terrible.

>We are almost a closed community
Yeah, that's a big point. Personally I'd be embarrassed to tell anyone about tgchan.
Seriously, the last quest that looked kinda visually appealing to me turned out to be about a futa Sergal, what's anyone supposed to think about something that already starts with a weird fetish.

>>327274

You are exaggerating in a crazy way.

>) It's hard to see anything about one's quest idea that doesn't in some way - directly or indirectly, through some technicality or just because - offend rules or sensibilities.

That's not true. The rules are very speficic and based in common sense. I can think of dozens of ideas for a quest that wouldn't offend anybody, unless they offend over-sensibilized users. And those are scarce and don't count.

>2) Quality seems irrelevant. Making an effort seems like a waste of time because either a) you don't get suggestions just because the quest isn't "fun" so people are too afraid of rocks falling to post

What? I don't even get what are you trying to tell here. First, All quests get between 2-4 suggestions for post. So that shouldn't be a problem. If a quest isn't "fun", then the author should ask himself why isn't it fun.

>or b) everyone will like it because it's a quest and you're not supposed to say anything bad about anything ever, so there's no real critique, robbing the GM from any active improvement in terms of art and storytelling.

There are only a few authors that are like that, and like people have pointed out, if they don't want critique and improvement, it's their problem, they aren't worth our time to try to make them understand those mistakes. You can keep enjoying their quests, or forget about them, disregarding the personal problems of the author.

>3) I'm tired of quoting, scroll up and read it.

Don't take this thread as an example of the community judgement. There's just a handful of users that like to stir up drama over the quests they don't like, and the rest of the userbase is pretty mellow about this kind of stuff. You just gotta learn to detect who users are going to be "rabble rabble rabble this quest/author is the cancer killing tgchan" and ignore them.

>>327279
I said that's what this thread makes it seem like.

Also
>common sense
isn't common.

>2)
Referring to "serious" quests getting less (or no) replies (based on claims, not my personal observations) because people are too afraid of rocks falling to make creative and less-than-obvious suggestions while "fun" (or "whimsical" or "lolrandumbXD") quests are busy regardless of quality because people can "take it easy".
>2b
Not referring to quest authors, but the general attitude in the community. At least there's a minimum of one post in any thread like this where someone says something similar to "all quests are good". It would seem to me that people are afraid of being labeled a troll or dramaqueen simply for not liking everything as if it were the best thing since fried lice.

>3)
And I'm not talking about people not liking things, I'm talking about people talking about not liking everything being some sort of a crime.
To put it simply, criticizing a quest being "wrong" because a quest is "good enough" just because someone likes it and/or posts in it, the standard reply being "if you don't like it, ignore it", no matter how bad it is or how much it really doesn't need to be here. There are examples in this thread, where people say they don't like a quest and other then condemning them for not liking that quest just because "it got a lot of posts" or "someone else likes it".

I'm also very confused by this thread. It's hard to say who's really standing for what viewpoint, why, and who actually read and/or understood what they read. Or when they are deliberately twisting someone's words for whatever reason.

What I do get is that tgchan being a happy and harmonious place is a myth and that some people are really allergic to criticism, regardless of the target.

>>327279
>. There's just a handful of users that like to stir up drama over the quests they don't like, and the rest of the userbase is pretty mellow about this kind of stuff.
Like, take this thread, note all the individual ids and compare it to the IRC rooms. It's a vocal minority.

Being embarrassed to tell someone about TGChan is rather silly, it's not even all that NSFW. Are you guys really that afraid of telling someone about something that contains adult content?
And I have never seen a new quest author welcomed with anything but open arms, unless their quest was really shitty.

>>327282

>unless their quest was really shitty.

And even sometimes when it is!

>>327280
>Referring to "serious" quests getting less (or no) replies (based on claims, not my personal observations) because people are too afraid of rocks falling to make creative and less-than-obvious suggestions while "fun" (or "whimsical" or "lolrandumbXD") quests are busy regardless of quality because people can "take it easy".

Alright so. I've run two quests to completion, abandoned one (due to lack of interest on my part, sorry anyone who liked it but you probably already know this anyway), and am currently running one.

I'd just like to say, in regards to this, that the suggestion volume on my (apparently) most popular "silly nonsense" quest (Locked in a Room) was actually generally lower than the suggestion volume on the more-or-less serious quest I'm running right now. Maybe it's skewed a little bit, because the silly quest I ran wasn't Pornquest the Quest of Much Porn, but...

>>327282
>Are you guys really that afraid of telling someone about something that contains adult content?
No, but the last few people I've showed the website were all "this is cool," and then they found something like, say, Pink Dragon, and got off of the website as quickly as possible. >_>

>>327285
OH NO A QUEST THAT WILL TAKE AT LEAST TWO SECONDS TO HIDE I GOTTA BAIL

>>327286

It's more like, "oh, hey, furries." *closes browser tab, to never return*.

>>327288
It makes our community more murry purry, which is bad, but on the plus side, people who are like "lol anything that looks like furries has contageous internets disease I don't want a part of it" are all faggots anyway.

>>327297
I'm gonna agree with that 100%

>>327297
I think the complaint was more "explicit furry sex" rather than "hey that looks kinda like an animal person."

Then again it's been a while. I dunno. :V

>>327299
Eh, I don't think it's a huge problem. I was updating at my apartment in Lyon that I'm sharing with 2 of my classmates that are neither furries nor know about the weird shit I do (i.e. /quest/).

I started updating and one of them asked what I was doing. I explained the concept and the board, and I was looking at some stuff that my friends do. He was like "this isn't furry stuff, is it?" but I found five quests within 2 seconds where ALL of the characters are human. On the front page.

Now he thinks tgchan is pretty cool.

teamsleep 2010/06/12(Sat)13:25 No. 17504 ID: 0f9dad
File 127637430374.gif - (1.71MB , 192x144 , okay what.gif )

>my face when reading this thread.

I'm going to say a couple things though, because I just got back inside from skating and I'm on an adrenaline rush and FUCK HUMILITY YEEEEAR

I'm going to say, http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5378749/1/Primetime_Television

This is a story that is extremely well written (if not a bit confusing) and has a very original concept. It has 28 reviews.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5785735/1/Blood_Drug This is a poorly written story with not as much as a plot as much as LOL WHAT IF A SONIC CHARACTER SAW TWILIGHT. It switches schizophrenically from script format and regular prose, and the writer doesn't excel in either. It has 34 reviews. All applauding and begging for more. That was from a generic google search, I wasn't looking for the LOL PUT IN YOUR OC CHARACTER stories that have almost like 90 reviews per chapter.

There are some very good quests here that rarely if ever got activity (I remember I had to samefag on the first quest I wrote because no one cared before I eventually dumped it) and some that aren't very well done and get all sorts of views. That being said, I'm looking over the page 0 of /quest/ and I see very well done quests that don't exist for the whole point of SEXSEXSEX FUCK BITCHES GET MONEY, on page one I only see like 1 out of nine quests that are in my opinion pointless. On page two, there's the quest that has offended everyone in question, and oh hey, mine's there too. I should update.

The point I'm trying to make here is that yeah, there are some shitty (by my opinon. shit's subjective) quests that get a bit of attention, shitty quests that get no attention, good quests that get a bit of attention and ones that don't. I'm going to say that while some quality of some quests are low, to say /quest/ and tgchan are going to die or get progressively worse is very much hyperbole.

Personally, I'm not a fan of rat-fingering-herself quest, though I like Vyt as a person. But honestly, I'm not going to be offended if her quest does better than Current Value. That's petty and stupid, really stupid. Does it rub me the wrong way? Slightly, but that's over the fact that people would rather be interested in a rat fingering itself.

My issue is not with the quest authors themselves, think of them as producers or something. The target demographic for Romanticar, Valley of Love, Pink Dragon, Masturbating Rat Quest or whatever obviously has a higher number of people on tgchan. These people I guess get off on that stuff, but goddamn, just showing up for that is horribly horribly shallow.

I'm not really mad at anyone as much as I want to tell them to think with their brains, not their dicks. If fuckananimalquest02020202 gets your rocks off, that's cool, but really, couldn't you just do that shit on fchan or redtube or someplace?

I don't hold any quests to a higher standard, but I do see where people are coming from with the irritation at HEY LOOK SEX SEX SEX. It doesn't exactly move the quest forward and in most cases they don't add anything at all or are extremely overdone.

That being said, shit people it's the internet, were you expecting shakesphere?

>>327304
>>were you expecting shakesphere?
You mean the guy that wrote about teens fucking.

>>327305
You get my point.

"There are some very good quests here that rarely if ever got activity" is simply not true. You would be hard pressed to find even a bad quest that rarely got any activity. It wasn't that long ago that someone in /meep/ talked about how their quest got no activity and no one could find a single quest where that was the case. Even the poorly thought out quests where there was nothing to do got some posts.

>>327310
Jegus fuck, even the SPAM BOT got replies!

Squeegy 2010/06/12(Sat)14:29 No. 17512 ID: 7ea95e
Audio 7_-_Viva_Discordia_.mp3 - (1.98MB , 7_-_Viva_Discordia.mp3 )

THIS PLACE

HAS GONE

CRAAAAAAAAAAAAZY


I personally think that SFW and NSFW quest boards are a fairly decent idea. That way you know what you want and you can go there to get it. Then again, I mean, there's already a hide thread button.

>>327312

i think we mulled it over and thought that was kind of a silly idea.

regardless we have brofist.info for that if we decide that sort of split is necessary

>>327315
You mean there was one response to it and it was a guy saying it was a silly idea.

>>327318

no i mean we decided we didnt want to divvy up the boards any more than they were after the spectacular failure that was /text/

Lawyer Dog 2010/06/12(Sat)18:28 No. 17525 ID: 8ce2bf
Audio 07_Viva_Discordia.mp3 - (8.60MB , 07 Viva Discordia.mp3 )

>>327312
Why is yours only 2 minutes and 128kbps you silly girl.

What would be best is just quest authors laying down some information about their quest (content, expected posts, etc.) so people don't get hit with sudden rape.

>>327315
Woah, I didn't even know that place existed.

>>327315
The last time someone made a quest/updated is like a month ago

http://www1.tgchan.org/layeggistrue.com/

Weaver 2010/06/13(Sun)02:05 No. 17541 ID: b4b04d
File 127641993142.jpg - (83.30KB , 480x272 , news for you.jpg )

>>327274
>even if just agreeing to disagree, just "getting along" will be nothing but Stalinist propaganda and censorship. And personally I don't believe in "agreeing to disagree", there needs to be clear lines and decisions
Well, beyond the fact I was trying to be self-satirizing, I find your opinion to be ridiculously intolerant. If anyone's got a Stalinist outlook, my friend, it's you.
You want clear lines and decisions on OPINIONS. About various entertainment media. That is stupid for one huge reason that you need to remember forever:

There is no accounting for taste.

>>327341
You're deliberately misunderstanding my point. If any actual criticism is instantly countered with non-arguments of "agreeing to disagree" and "live and let live", said criticism being labeled intolerance, nitpicking or intentional drama-stirring, then there will be no room for criticism. People should not be expected to think a quest is "good" just because someone likes it.
And shit is always shit, even if some people like it.

It kills discussion and debate when all (if any) sensible comments and proper arguments are sunk in a swamp of personal attacks and suggestions to abandon critical discussion for the sake of niceness.

Anonymous 2010/06/13(Sun)04:07 No. 17545 ID: f44349
File 127642727022.jpg - (16.06KB , 300x352 , chillax nigga.jpg )

Oh wow my post got deleted.
Fair enough, it was a little trolly.
I'll just SAY it then instead of posting a reaction image.


THIS IS STUPID


Discussion is fine.
Discussion is GOOD.
But some people here seem kind of upset and that is incredibly silly.
The whole point of this place is fun and games.
If you are this upset about anything here then you are taking it WAY too seriously.

Chizzlax fo rizzle mah nizzles.

teamsleep 2010/06/13(Sun)07:34 No. 17552 ID: 0f9dad
File 127643969092.jpg - (22.07KB , 280x243 , vuvuzela.jpg )

>>327345
What he said. Chill out and watch the world cuBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

>>327344
I'm going to agree with this.

We have critics for a reason. Saying that all quests are equal is like saying all movies are equal, because liking them is a matter of opinion.

Insomnia!DReamEr2eU 2010/06/13(Sun)09:54 No. 17558 ID: 55c4cf
File 127644809765.png - (125.00KB , 800x281 , 20090526.png )

“Everyone is different, no two people are not on fire.”

I will say that it's remotely pleasant to see this discussion being had outside of the anonymous thread for what it's worth at least. The conversation itself is not that pleasant, but it is/was inevitable to happen, and it's better to see it more openly discussed.

Been mulling over whether or not I cared to say anything for some time. I don't personally care for the initiating issue, but instead the reaction to it.

Love Drifter(bf1e7e) and Morning Desire(a594b9) each draw parallels to how I feel about the matters. I'm somewhere in between the two.

This is an issue I brought up several months ago, when it was irritating me thoroughly. The concentrated groin energy of people and quests. It was brought up again weeks ago by Weaver and the reaction of the chat at the time was the complete opposite as it was months ago. Now we're discussing it once more, and the reaction is sort of a mixture of both discussions as well as a bunch of completely new directions!

I no longer even care about the strange sexual goal oriented mindset of a lot of people. It's to be expected on the internet. People have said some things along the lines of, “if you control it, or don't respond to it, your suggestions won't get out of hand.” This is pretty true, but isn't flawless. You're still going to get insane, creepy, and/or sexual suggestions time to time. The author does have a lot of control over it.

What I really see going on is that a lot of people don't care what is said, or what is done. Not in conversation or in the quest. People care who did it. Your best friend, or even yourself, could be doing exactly what you are complaining about. When it's your friend you usually excuse it, or justify it really quickly. When it's someone you don't like you're going to do the exact opposite. This is fairly common to human nature, but you can see it very often, I see some of it in this thread.

What the hell can you do except tell the person you have a problem with what you have a problem with. I know someone, and probably a few other people, who told Person A that they had a problem with Action B. Person A doesn't give a shit. You know what I say to that? Fuck 'em.

There's absolutely no reason to carry on about something once you've (im)politely told the person in question that shit is going bad. If they take your words and work on it, awesome. If they go, “that's just your opinion man!” or some other patronizing bullshit, then go do something or read something you enjoy more instead of putting all your time, effort, and attention on someone or something that isn't going to change.

People's love and mindsets for negativity is way out of hand. I try to take the positive even out of the negative and keep joyful. Joyful doesn't necessarily require me to be completely happy. I can be in a bad mood or way and still try to keep myself uplifted. That's what I try to do. People tell me when I do things wrong, or just “shit sux,” and that's cool with me. More so when people tell me why shit sux so I can possibly do something about it or try to improve.

I loved telling stories and working on improving my quests when I had one or two comments each update, and I still do. Nobody making a quest that makes me sick, annoys me, or that I really do not like is going to take that away from me. The community can go to hell, even if it hasn't already, and I'm still getting the enjoyment out of it that I came to experience. You know what though, the shit I hate, other people are going to love. My stuff could be (maybe is) shit, and I'm still going to have people who read it and enjoy it. I get told nice/positive things all the time and it's very nice, but I really appreciate it when someone tells me something I'm failing at so I can do something about it. In private, in a chat, in an anonymous thread. Go fucking wild.

So let's hate what we hate, we can tell people about it. It's probably a great idea to tell them about it and why. Let's love what we love, but we could easily be a little less “hugbox” about it all, as some people have been saying. Real brothers roughhouse and beat each other up sometimes. It's what makes people a little stronger and sturdier.

The whole deal with people being wrong on the internet, especially about Fantasy Races or Opinions is absolutely hilarious dumb. It just comes down to trolls trolling trolls who are trolling trolls who troll other trolls trolling trolls trolling you. It's so funny though, it must be done, who can control themselves? Self control is for suckers.

Stay positive, friends/enemies/faggots.

(LawyerDog makes more sense than a lot of you, just thought you should know.)

Squeegy 2010/06/13(Sun)09:57 No. 17559 ID: 7ea95e
File 127644825541.png - (559.23KB , 650x677 , Buckley is a Dick.png )

>>327344
I agree with this. For instance, some people like Ctrl-Alt-Delete. But if you guys don't we should just agree to disagree! I don't want to hear any CAD hate on this board ever or your post will be deleted and you will be banned.

Reason given: None.

Date ban will end: Never.

>>327359

Man, what are you even talking about? I don't know if you're trying to be funny, trolling or just discussing with yourself, because that's not the point here.

>>327359
>I don't want to hear any CAD hate on this board ever or your post will be deleted and you will be banned.
>Buckley is a Dick.png

I find this amusing.

>>327358
>>You're still going to get insane, creepy, and/or sexual suggestions time to time. The author does have a lot of control over it.
Not having control over it and not enforcing it are two very different things. The second is what is actually happening, quest authors have always been able to control it, they just don't.

>>327362
I agree with you for the most part, but not enforcing it still means it is in your control, you're just not doing anything about it. Good point though.

Informer, you no say
that's who I'm gonna blame
a licky boom boom down
Detective man said Daddy Snow
I stabbed someone down the lane
a licky boom boom down

While we're discussing the glory of "serious" quests compared to one liner suggestion shit quests. I would like to say something that I've wanted to say for a long time but haven't because I didin't want to destroy the peace we had at the time.

I don't like our new stress balls quest, I dislike most of Gnoll's quests and pink dragon is an abortion. But I can say that in their respective /questdis/ threads or as anon on /meep/. None of them make me rage and as far as I'm concerned they're not destroying anything.

I'm more annoyed about "serious" quest quitting before they're even finished or updating so slowly you don't give a shit anymore (Hi ClockworkSeal and others, you know who you are). You get into it, make suggestions that you actually think about and try to keep track of everything. Then your reward is a big stinking pile of shit. Pretty much burned out on Tgchan for couple of months. Now I'm finding it hard to start suggesting again even when there's been many good quests that actually finished since then.

So, glory to shit quests. If I actually liked them half as much as the aborted quests of those who started this drama I would have no problems. Much easier to let go of quests that require no effort.

But that's my pet peeve.

>>327366
Yeah sorry 'bout that bro.

BeakieHelmet 2010/06/13(Sun)12:45 No. 17568 ID: 9cb4b3
File 127645835261.png - (208.32KB , 389x299 , Billy Mays.png )

>>327366
Hatch is updating. It's only ever had a month between updates (besides the initial three month hiatus), and this dry spell is partly due to me being busy IRL, partly due to April Fool's Deep, and partly due to me hating my own art and erasing near-complete updates. Which I'm starting to not do at last.

The only two other offenders besides myself seem to be Seal and Sigma, who need to GET ON THE BALL!

Everyone else has been updating pretty frequently.

>>327368
>>Everyone else has been updating pretty frequently.
Not me!

This isn't about update rates or art quality or what characters are used.

This is about hating a coattail riding train set squarely on the tracks to Lowest Common Denominatorville.

Also, you're all gay babies and that's just my opinion. >:3c

>>327344
>You're deliberately misunderstanding my point
>People should not be expected to think a quest is "good" just because someone likes it.
And shit is always shit, even if some people like it.
No, I'm pretty sure I've got your point. "Even if some people think something is good, it can be objectively shitty, because I say so".

You can dislike a quest others like, sure. You personally don't have to think a quest is good just because others do. But no, shit is not always shit just because you say it is.
Especially because the same people who make such unquestionable judgments about others will do the opposite for themselves.

Take this for instance:
>>327304
>There are some very good quests here that rarely if ever got activity (I remember I had to samefag on the first quest I wrote because no one cared before I eventually dumped it)
This guy's point is objectionable because it implicitly states "My first quest was very good".
He objects to it getting few posts because to him, despite the fact he had to samefag and no one was interested, he states outright, as objective fact, that it was a very good quest.
Do you see where I'm going with this?

The problem, I mean the real problem with criticism around here is that people who make the point you do can so rarely help themselves from presenting it as a hostile, unhelpful, and offensive manner. Even teamsleep, who I just quoted, was detailed in his criticism of the example fanfic even when it was strongly-worded. He at least pointed out one aspect of why it was bad -- a schizophrenic writing style. Even when real critics speak badly on something, calling it dreck or whatever, they point out why. They say what it did wrong, and even if they're really harsh about it, it's constructive criticism because it points out what was wrong, how it was wrong, and in what ways it could have been improved.
Conversely, around here, you'll see a lot of THIS QUEST IS SHIT, EVERYONE WHO READS IT IS SHIT TOO. And when that type of criticism is attacked, the people making the criticism will inevitably turn around, as Squeegy did here >>327359 and say "OH WHAT SO WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITICIZE ANYTHING, IS THAT IT?"

So to wit:
Criticism is fine. It doesn't even have to be lovey-dovey, pulled-punch soft criticism that avoids hurting feelings. But if you're going to make the argument for criticism as a vital component of the board, you need to be able to recognize the difference between useful, constructive criticism (which CAN be harsh) and just shitting on something you don't like. If you can't recognize the difference, you need to stop.
Telling someone to stop shitting on something is not the same as saying "you can never criticize anything, ever".

And lastly, if you feel something is so bad it CAN'T be given constructive criticism, so that all you can really do is rant about how shitty it is to all the people who gobble it up, then no amount of criticism you give would ever turn it around and you're probably just best hiding it forever.

teamsleep 2010/06/13(Sun)13:28 No. 17574 ID: 0f9dad
File 127646091288.jpg - (51.37KB , 460x288 , Vuvuzela_1652021c.jpg )

>>327372
I didn't realize I stuck my quest in the "very good" category. It wasn't, my oversight.

I agree with everything else though and BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzz

Weaver 2010/06/13(Sun)13:31 No. 17575 ID: b4b04d
File 127646107189.jpg - (109.05KB , 550x1900 , nanquest.jpg )

>>327373
Sorry you got that wrong let me just

Weaver are you going to have that gag where Nan opens a door and a train is heading right for it?

You see, I don't give a damn about shit unless it smells and looks like shit and is literally a piece of shit in its brown and smelly glory. An ass has to birth it in order for an object to qualify as shit. Then I'm offended. Because it came outta someone's ass and is subjecting me to it.

>>327372
I'm not saying I know what's objectively bad. Or that anyone knows. But it should be discussed actively, even if we'll only reach consensus when the Republicans and Democrats merge into a superparty, name it WANKERS and stop being assholes.

And when I say "criticism" I DO mean criticism, not just saying something's shit "just because it is".
Although some people are so thick that unless you beat the shit out of them they won't even notice you. Then again, said some people can take simple lack of mindless praise as a personal attack. I hope there aren't any here.

If I do consider something bad I will explain why, although if I just don't like it and can't really say why I'll just leave it be.
But I do believe that serious discussion should be encouraged, even at the expense of some perceived "civility". For one, tones are lost in text communication, so an emotionally neutral post might seem like aggression - or the opposite.
I feel people posting pictures of rappers and vuvuzelas with lyrics or poems about peace and such (or equivalents thereof) are just trying to extinguish serious debate. Besides, as they say, you can't make an omelette without offending some zealous lunatic.

teamsleep 2010/06/13(Sun)13:50 No. 17580 ID: 0f9dad
File 127646221669.jpg - (14.14KB , 300x189 , vuvuzela.jpg )

>>327379
I was just posting vuvuzelas because the world cup is on, sir. I've already made my stance.

>>327379
>we'll only reach consensus when the Republicans and Democrats merge into a superparty, name it WANKERS and stop being assholes.
new quest idea found

>>327380
And posting unrelated "funny" in a serious discussion is not really a welcome distraction. Especially if someone tries to change the subject as a result.

oh wait
>>327379
>I do believe that serious discussion should be encouraged, even at the expense of some perceived "civility".
Again, even harsh criticism can be made with civility. Pointing out the flaws of something in a reasonable way is not uncivil. Calling something horseshit is.

If you're incapable of making your criticism seem civil you're probably not being as reasonable about it as you think you are.

>>327382
I can't hear you over my BRRRRRRRRRRRR

Carry on, I've ran out of vuvuzela images anyway.

>>327383
Well, sometimes one can lapse, even if one normally is civil. And sometimes some consider anything against their view(s) to be uncivil.

My point is that some arbitrary notion of politeness shouldn't be allowed to get in the way of actual discussion or debate.
I'm saying this because I do actually see it a lot, especially on the internet - and very especially in more compact communities.

Criticism can be as harsh it wants so long as there is a good reason behind your complaints and you express it clearly.

Beakie's original post of this thread is a bit on the harsh side, but it clearly states why he feels this way about these quests and thus is a good example of this.

>>327387
I like seeing that kind of harshness. It makes one's stance that much more clear and - when applied properly - has a certain impact to it.

Naturally, it can be done wrong.

>>327344
>And shit is always shit, even if some people like it.
THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

That is my main problem with the original argument here. Saying "shit quests shouldn't get as many suggestions" is implying that I shouldn't post in those quests. You can dislike other quests all you want, but don't EVER tell me I shouldn't be suggesting in those quests. I'll post wherever I want.

Hey, speaking of where I want to post: quest authors' attitudes have convinced me more often to stop posting than the actual content of the quests. Don't be rude to your players, don't whine (very much) when you don't get as many suggestions as you'd like, and don't trash talk other authors or their quests. Just generally behave yourselves, please.

>Hey, speaking of where I want to post: quest authors' attitudes have convinced me more often to stop posting than the actual content of the quests. Don't be rude to your players, don't whine (very much) when you don't get as many suggestions as you'd like, and don't trash talk other authors or their quests. Just generally behave yourselves, please.

This a million billion times. Though I'm nopt any less inclined to post in Hatch, or Rat Quest, I certainly stopped posting in Durandal's quest when he got bitten by a were-troll or whateverthefuck happened to him.

>>327387
This is true. Beakie has a point: Don't use races if there's no point to them. However, there IS a point to them in Rat Quest: Nedynvor are pretty large creatures, and can be imposing, but also are known (so far) for being generally nice folks. Throw that together and hey, you have half a character already.

Cutegal was a much better example of DOING IT WRONG, in recent memory.

I'm all for criticism. Just make sure it's constructive.

Cutegal was actually created as a result of Beakie criticising BG's sergal drawings, and BG created the quest to troll him as a result

>>327392

Why use a creature from another setting, disregarding all backstory or behaviour patterns tied with them and then claim it was 'because they're fitting for a story'.

Why some of the species were recycled by various quest authors is because they are/were popular. I really find the constant reuse of Nedyvor without Lucid's permission (quote by various people "It's not like Lucid would mind!") and with total disregard of Lucid's setting, especially insulting to him. I'm pretty sure that he would provide all information behind the Nedyvors and help gear them to how they'd REALLY behave.

Instead what we get is 'men in funny suits'. The characters are usually throwaway or so bland that you could replace the species with a sea cucumber and it would still be the same character. If you want to make a good character, instead of just yoinking other people's stuff, then totally disregarding any backstory to it or basic info, contact, research, read and ask. It never hurts and it's a better 'homage' than rip-offs and 'I'm sure (s)he doesn't mind' borrowing.


Just saying.

>>327394
>>313155 is Lucid's official statement on the matter. Although I wonder if Vyt actually gave a heads-up first.

>>327395

No he didn't. Actually most of the people that included Nedyvors never did.

The premise was still "HEY THIS LOOKS COOL AND JOURNEYQUEST IS/WAS POPULAR, SO I'M GONNA PUT THIS IN MY ORIGINAL QUEST DO NOT STEAL". Which is still bad.

>>327396
The really offensive thing is that every instance of a Nedynvor has been the polar opposite of the canon. They're always depicted as large, vicious bullies akin to ogres, trolls and giants.

It really shows that the person knows nothing at all about the species and that they use them solely to gain fame for themselves. It seems like a dick move.

>>327397
>They're always depicted as large, vicious bullies akin to ogres, trolls and giants.
That certainly is interesting. Makes me wonder how Tav would react to seeing other Nedynvors, since Demesi was such a pushover.

>>327400
i think he is saying other quests show them as bullies.

>>327401
Ah, I had misunderstood.

yeah, but that still doesn't make sense, rat quest has the ned as a nice guy who just LOOKS scary.

>>327397
I think that's because people like IRONY. The only canon Nedynvor we know [and remember, we only know the one, maybe the race IS bullies for all we know] is a soft spoken nice guy. So, the first thing people will think of when making a character based off of that is to make him... not.

Think of how many times someone has made a PC that was a 'good member of an 'Always Chaotic Evil' race. And how often people make bad guys out of 'Always Lawful Good' ones as well. It's a really simple trick to create drama, but it can still work.

>>327405
Given the mental processes of most of the authors that have used them, it was probably more along the lines of "IT HAVE SWORD FEETS, IT MUST BE STABBY MEAN THING."

>>327406
can someone link me to where a Nedynvor is depicted as big and mean? i haven't actually seen any.

>>327407
http://www.tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/188568.html#i189104

Not to mention Footsies from Knights Blade and whatever that swearing, fighting one from that text quest is called.

>>327408
the guy from rat-quest is a nice guy that just has a hard time talking righ, the guy from the text quest just like yelling but is a good person. footsies, sure i'll give you that one. so 2 of your examples are actually nice.

>>327408
>>327410
Not trying to be mean, but the name your looking for is Carg.

Gnoll 2010/06/13(Sun)18:57 No. 17614 ID: 8c0848
File 127648065174.png - (17.03KB , 851x740 , yeahsure.png )

>>327411
I'll be sure to care about that if I can fit it into my schedule.

(I will now avatarfag full time to incite more rage. Thank you and have a nice day!)

Mneme!CRITTerXzI 2010/06/13(Sun)19:04 No. 17615 ID: c4c313
File 127648104933.jpg - (28.20KB , 512x408 , KingAcorn.jpg )

MasturbRatquest sucked because I ruined it with my stupid triangle political soapboxing. Hopefully Vyt can recover. I see no reason why a nedynvor couldn't go to high school.

>>327411

Carganus, to be specific. <3

There are some quests that clearly use the races in the wrong ways. It's when a species acts as just a shape, and not also a mindset, and culture. For example the recent Sergals in Space quest, and that one After Quest about a talyxian that was just jury rigged into making them the toughest baddest minimaxed thing to menace the earth, quite unlike any other talyxian. (Thankfully the author went on to use their own species and stop raping the cute cuddly talyxians)

>>327411
Hey, as long as we're yelling at people. I kind of gave up on following your quests sometime early in Mana Ritual after whatever-his-name-was refused yet another suggestion in favor of just moping a lot, but I still see them from time to time since I don't generally hide things that aren't obnoxiously explicit porn, and uh.

What is with the guy who uses "fuckin" every three words? Is he a middle schooler trying to be edgy?

Not trying to be offensive or anything but it's really grating to even look at.

>>327416
I noticed the overswearing a while back and have cut back on it. At least he's better at talking than Grek. And yes, he is trying to be edgy and/or reinforce his perceived personality.

>>327415
>cute cuddly talyxians
I don't follow.

>>327419
I think Mneme was trolling.

Weaver 2010/06/13(Sun)22:25 No. 17631 ID: b4b04d
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I don't think it's fair to say Footsies is an example of Nedynvor being completely off-canon, because that conversely suggests that Nedynvor are, as a species, incapable of being criminals/lowlifes. He's one individual and hardly typifies the species. Consider: If Voltos were generally nice people, Muschio would be an exception, a bad apple, not a sullied mark against canon. He's just one man.

Actually this brings me to another point:
I still feel REALLY bad about Ashedel, more specifically, that I introduced her to the story without asking Lucid. When confronted with this I reacted the same way most people usually do when someone calls them on doing something dumb and snapped back. But yeah, I fucked up. Talked to Lucid about it later but that was obviously past the point it would have been a good idea.

I still try to use her pretty sparingly just because I feel so dumb about her character.

Incidentally I don't think she is particularly off-model, but if someone feels otherwise I'd like to hear that criticism.

Although as an afterthought it occurs to me that I personally hate the oft-touted "racial mental traits" staple of the fantasy genre. The idea that a whole race (NOT a culture) thinks and acts similarly. I mean, assuming it was capable of sapient thought, couldn't an orc or goblin raised in an educated, polite society from birth fit that type well?
I don't like the trope, really, and try to treat racial individuals as individuals, giving more thought to their region and culture than their species.

I mean, take a look at real-world examples. It's that kind of thinking that gave us racism.
Reds and blacks are mindless savages incapable of higher thought, jews and chinamen are crafty and sinister, you get my point.
in b4 obvious racism joke

>behaviour patterns tied with them

BECAUSE ALL OF RACE X ACT THE SAME AMIRITE

Even in my OWN quest, none of my races have 'racial behavoir patterns'. Rather, they have CULTURES. Kobolds in Hatverse are mostly community-oriented, meek, and subservient, but some defy this. Goblins are mostly HONURR and COMBAT, but Ysl is very much a sedentary housewife. Humans in Bardic are warlike and paranoid, but Frederick is a smooth guy who doesn't hurt others unless he's pushed.

Like Weaver, I find the idea that a race as a whole thinks one way or another is silly at best and disturbing at worst.

Test Pattern 2010/06/13(Sun)23:14 No. 17635 ID: 8bdb6a
File 127649605995.png - (69.10KB , 600x500 , chikkin_legs.png )

>>327431
>>327432
Yeah, I agree that species shouldn't be stereotypes. On the other hand, if a bunch of quests had Volto named characters, and they were all overly cheerful, monosyllabic nincompoops (IE: the approximate opposite of the original example), you'd probably be pretty cheesed. Ashedel is the only nedynvor we've seen outside Journey that had a character other than "Big mean jerkface." (Though the KB one was just a midboss so hey)

(PS: Subjective subjecting subjectivity)

>Incidentally I don't think she is particularly off-model, but if someone feels otherwise I'd like to hear that criticism.
Disregarding the index talon thing, which you've already heard about, her legs bug me.

>>327435
The one on the left reminds me of the things from condemned.

1ac39d is me.

>>327432
>try to treat racial individuals as individuals, giving more thought to their region and culture than their species.

I actually noticed this most with Arabella. She's an Orc, yet every time we see her she's usually lying around reading.

>>327432

> treat racial individuals as individuals, giving more thought to their region and culture than their species.

That's why you get "Men in funny suits syndrome". The race doesn't matter since it's pretty much the same thing sans +1 or -1 to the stats. "If race X lives in a region X culture defines it" is flawed thinking, pointed out by many DMs as just "don't".


Every race has a lot of little things that make them different from human race.

Why Gnolls are matriarchal? Because hyenas are? Why hyenas are matriarchal? Because that's how their biology works.

Why humans find two meatbags in front of them attractive? That's because how our biology made boobs a distinctive sexual characteristic amongst ourselves.

Will Orcs eat vegetables if they have clearly carnivore teeth?

If you come off that "Racial behaviour = racist stereotyping", you really need to look into the fact that anatomy and biology differences between two fantasy species are way different than between humans living in different world regions. It really doesn't have to be a major thing everytime, but it could just be little things there and there.

>>327440
hello said more thought to culture, not 0 thought species. so a ned that grew up in a bad place would more likely be bad then otherwise.

>>327432
the reason that other races have specific mental characteristics is the same reason humans do. While you can't say that every person has certain personality traits or any sort of mental characteristic, there is definitely a pattern. The reason that an entire other species rather than just another race of humans would be different is a different biological heritage leading to a different outcome. Culture and upbringing also play an important part in shaping a personality, but genetics do account for a lot of an individual's personality. There is still room for variation, but there are definitely patterns. It can be hard to see them in people without taking a step back, since we're the only fully intelligent race we know of, but they're there. That's not to say that there aren't exceptions and such. If biology were fully in charge of our behavior, there would be no asexuals, suicidal people, homosexuals (chill, I'm just saying it doesn't have a chance of making babies), or anything else that didn't involve surviving, making babies, and then dying.

tl;dr
An individual is individual, but brain chemicals predetermine a decent portion of behavior.

Weaver 2010/06/14(Mon)04:49 No. 17651 ID: b4b04d
File 127651617433.gif - (24.15KB , 691x881 , goblins summary.gif )

>>327435
Duly noted. This diagram actually helps a lot, and I will be using it in the future as my cheat sheet.
Thanks.

>>327440
This is pretty stupid, if you ask me.
>Every race has a lot of little things that make them different from human race.
This especially, because such races don't actually exist. It's all speculation anyway.

It's lazy writing, more often than not just an effort to write one culture per race. In such fantasy worlds, there can be no distinction between "race" and "culture" because every race (save maybe the humans) only have one culture. The most you'll get is different tribes, who are usually about as variegated as their warpaint, and that's it.

>>327443
Your point is valid, but even the most basic human instincts are often overridden. What's one of the most basic possible things you can say about humanity? We are social animals. And yet, there are always hermits, loners, shut-ins, recluses. Some cultures are warlike. Some cultures are peaceful. Trying to write it all in to a single mantra is bad enough, but then (to get to the point I was making in the first place) detesting things that break this mold for being "inaccurate" is even worse.
The problem is that so often, in fantasy, a race IS a culture, and vice-versa. The few rare exceptions are anomalies, and even those are usually played for laughs.

Hey how come people are accusing Halting State of having a sergal for no reason? It sounds like people just looked at the discussion thread or the last few updates and went "Wait why is there a sergal" instead of actually reading the quest and seeing that we created the character's appearance ourselves.

Also it's just a custom body, so it only makes sense that he acts basically like a human.

>The target demographic for Romanticar, Valley of Love, Pink Dragon, Masturbating Rat Quest or whatever obviously has a higher number of people on tgchan. These people I guess get off on that stuff, but goddamn, just showing up for that is horribly horribly shallow.

Welcome to the entire goddamn point.

>I'm more annoyed about "serious" quest quitting before they're even finished or updating so slowly you don't give a shit anymore (Hi ClockworkSeal and others, you know who you are).

Until recently, I was running on a backup computer that sucked. To clarify how much it sucked, it takes about 5 minutes for it to begin accepting inputs once windows starts. It takes two and a half or so just to open Sai, and drawing in it usually gets about 3-8 seconds of lag between the actual motion and the lines actually starting to follow the cursor.

Here's the thing about Deep.

I hate it. Most of the suggestions that it gets are mind-numbingly retarded, but that's not even the suggestor's faults. I fucked up the entire presentation, didn't give a clear goal, and made a thousand basic mistakes in actually running the quest which caused it to pile up into a ridiculous mess. I'd like to finish it, but I honestly have no idea how to salvage it without railroading it with the heaviest of hands.

Chasing Stars is a lot of fun, but it is entirely too much work. The animation involved is incredibly time-consuming, and I actually have a job now.

Silhouette is basically right out. I had some plans for it, but I spent two days running the quest for one guy because nobody else bothered to post.

Boon is a good quest and I am interested in continuing it, but I don't like leaving Deep off in the middle of a 'part' like that to do it. I want to at least get to a pausing point in Deep before continuing Boon.

Clefable Quest (IE Pokemon Quest Gaiden) was intended to just be a goofy one-off for Pokemon Day that was mostly a Clefable being a jackass. And it succeeded about that! I could see myself picking it back up at some point in the future, but it works as a completed quest as is.

Plessy Quest is finished.

I want to finish the Cutebold Slaughterfest chapter, but I feel terrible posting art far below the quality of that in the quest proper and I'm terrible at coloring (and the quest is colored). It takes me an extremely long time to draw updates for it, and I have a job now (mentioned again for clarity) and Monster Hunter 3 came out just a few months ago. It might sound like a lame excuse, but I'm not getting paid for this. I do this as a hobby, because I enjoy it.

That's why Deep doesn't update, I'm still not sure how to get it to a point where I can enjoy it again. I don't WANT to abandon it and just leave it unfinished, but I don't have a clue how to continue it. I have tried to bring this up several times, but the community has invariably decided to talk about dicks or some text quest instead, and the subject has never actually been clarified. So don't even fucking TRY to tell me 'WELL WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO,' because I fucking did. And the faggots who brought about ratsturbation quest and advertise Shoujen as 'A quest about lesbians! We helped one reach her first orgasm!' decided to bury it in shit.

>>327453
Halting State is fine with me for that very reason, the only problem I have with it is that the main character is a herm because herms creep me out.

I read it anyways, though.

>>327451
I'd like to point you to Vilous.

Sergals actually act differently than humans because of both biology and culture, and the Vilous continent is small enough to where there are two macro-cultures and many smaller cultures within. What most people think of when they say "Sergal culture" is the Northern Sergal Clan Shigu, of which Goshen and Aruuchi are both from. Sergal sexual dimorphism is practically non-existent, the only real difference seems to be a slimmer waist and slightly broader hips in the females, like in humans, but sergals have no difference in muscle mass between them, and sergal pregnancy doesn't hamper them nearly as much as it does humans. Plus, the infamous PCH gives females a little more power in the bedroom as well.

All this results in a complete lack of feminity among sergals and a society very, very different from ours from the get go. From here it is more effected by people and their decisions resulting in a more violent society than our current one, and somewhat similar to the mongolian society of old. Still, this was in turn effected by a stronger need for meat in their diet than in ours, which in turn effected some of their customs.

Nevreans have a bit of a stronger case: Their genders are switched compared to humans. The males are the fairer and weaker (muscularity wise) sex while the females have tough, strong bodies with bigger teeth and horns on their head. Yisi is actually a better example of a nevrean male than Liam is, as Mick and Kiki and I talked about this long after Hatchquest was underway.

What I think you have confused here, Weaver, is not having them act like a human, but act like a sapient. A sapient anything will make their own decisions and find their own path in life, like humans do, but this is the point: If you don't make use of their culture, biology and upbringing in their characterization, what is the point of making them an established race in a different setting? Like others, I feel like having a race in a new setting and then taking away everything that makes them what they are save for their appearance is rather insulting.

If I'm one of those quest abandoners people were talking about, I apologize. I've been dealing with some personal shit lately and have since tried to force my way through said shit. I'm trying to update Riarda more, I just frequently get the feeling that I've run myself into a corner or wasted updates and such. I'm workin' on it.

>>327431
>Incidentally I don't think she is particularly off-model, but if someone feels otherwise I'd like to hear that criticism.

As pointed out before, the legs. Ashedel's legs are plantigrade blade feet rather than digigrade blade feet as is the canon, as well, Nedynvor do not possess mammary glands in the canon setting. It is actually worth noting that Ashedel's crest design DID actually influence the canon design for female Nedynvor's crests.

That being said, I've talked to Weaver already regarding this and there's no real problem here. Ashedel is basically his take on the Nedynvor concept and thus slightly altered in design to fit the Dive-verse. I'm coo with it, He seems coo with the whole situation, so it's not really a big deal. I'm going to end this now as I'm operating on about 45 minutes of sleep in the past 48 hours and I get the feeling that I'm rambling.

>>327432
after thought; I agree with the silliness of "This race is evil because they're ALL dicks, no exceptions" thing that seems to happen a lot in fantasy settings.

People making Nedynvor be mean, or jerks, or what ever doesn't break any sort of racial paradigm or something for them, as there are canonically dick Nedynvor in Layridin since their personalities are INDIVIDUAL personalities, there's no specific way that Nedynvore as a whole act

I would never ever use someone else's races in any of my quests. Ever.

>>327459

>>If you don't make use of their culture, biology and upbringing in their characterization, what is the point of making them an established race in a different setting?
The point is because they look neat, or it's a slight nod to another quest.

>>327461
That's complete bullshit.

If all they like about the race is the physical appearance they should not be using the race at all. Make a similar race, call them something different or for goodness sake, make up a race of your own. The ONLY reason someone would use a specific race in this situation is to try to ride the coat-tails of another quest, as there is literally no excuse for it.

ANY quest author that uses a pre-established race SIMPLY for it's physical appearance and removes all other attributes of the race is an unimaginative fuck who I will make no effort to feel welcome here.

>>327462
Just for the sake of the argument, name some quests that a) borrow a race properly, b) borrow a race improperly and c) are an exception or just have some acceptable reason/excuse for not being fully proper.
Preferably with critical commentary.

>>327463

a) borrow a race properly

Cutebold slaughterfest.

b) borrow a race improperly

DiveKnightBladesQuest

c) are an exception or just have some acceptable reason/excuse for not being fully proper.

NORTHERN SERGAL!

>>327463
A & B I did in the OP (CSF and Ratsurbation Quest, respectively), and C I did in another post, Halting State.

But to clarify, Halting State has a reason for it in quest, and the main character admits his/her new body was based upon the sergal design in the questdis thread I believe. Unlike some people I have had the unfortunate pleasure of meeting, he is literally a human in a sergal body, and his new external appearance doesn't change who he is.

I have to say, it's somewhat refreshing.

>>327455
If you're tired of the quest and you hate it, just ham-handedly railroad it into a conclusion. Or completely abandon it, since odds are by now no one has the slightest idea of what the hell we were supposed to be doing anyway.

Really, any option that leads to you bringing back Boon is okay with me. :V

>>327456
Your point is noted, but I said "most" fantasy settings. I'm sure there are some that make the races more in-depth and culturally relevant to their upbringing.
To restate more clearly most fantasy worlds disregard the influence of culture or mash it down to only one culture per race. Instead of the "men with funny suits" trope, it becomes a "one particular type of foreigners with funny suits" situation.
My point is that in such worlds, there's no consideration for individuals. Like you said, race, culture, upbringing should all be considered. These worlds only consider the first one. Orcs are orcs. Goblins are goblins.

Admittedly such a world has a lot of benefits. In an RPG setting it's easy for the players to know right away what they're dealing with if they run into members of a given race, monstrous or civilized. It's easy to write for. It makes clear delineations.
But for more in-depth projects, I feel far too many worlds take this path, and it feels like just lazy writing. Every individual acts the same way because they're influenced solely by their race, their culture is homogeneous, and individuals are never exceptions (except again, for humor value).

>>327459
>I would never ever use someone else's races in any of my quests. Ever.
I get the joke!

>b) borrow a race improperly
>DiveKnightBladesQuest
Man
are you serious

>>327469

I think he's quite serious, Weaver. I know Lucid is ok with that character existing, but the fact of the matter is that you just put a big-titted quest race in there so your self-insert could bone it. I honestly liked Dive until that.

Oh and also Weaver you only asked "permission" after you inserted the character already. Lucid's a nice guy and isn't gonna say no when asked after the fact like that.

>>327464
You forgot your critical commentary.

>>327472
>Oh and also Weaver you only asked "permission" after you inserted the character already. Lucid's a nice guy and isn't gonna say no when asked after the fact like that.
I know. I already conceded this point. I still feel bad about it. I've since tried to adapt the Dive interpretation of Nedynvor to a more tailored means (as I've done with all the other races, too) but I still try to use her sparingly because the way I introduced her was just so stupid. I didn't know anything about them, I just stuck them in as a sort of shout-out and I fucked it up awfully. She even has tits because I didn't know they weren't supposed to have any. It's just terrible.
I'll admit that.
I have admitted that.

Now Weaver, in penance, don't update DiveQuest anym-

Oh wait beat me to it.

>>327470
I don't even... whut?

Self-Insert? Unless Weaver desires to be a failure and mockery of a Machiavellian leader, an accidental mass murderer, and socially inconsequential lunatic who spends his time plotting in a cave except to troll the neighboring civilized folk I think I may be seeing some problems here.

>>327476

Weaver DID just admit it. (lol)

>>327476
Weaver's self-insert is actually Finesse.

Weaver 2010/06/14(Mon)14:36 No. 17679 ID: b4b04d
File 127655138387.png - (18.98KB , 627x626 , bonkers.png )

>>327477
>>327475
>>327472
>>327470
Damn your IP changes fast.

Anyway in response to these criticisms I thought I should leak my newest character design, Bonkers the Sergal.
Actually he's just 1/3rd sergal, he's also 1/3rd hedgehog and 1/3rd mewtwo (the mewtwo part is also a vampire)

he uses one uzi and one desert eagle and he has a katana made of souls from the one million people he's killed
but he's light hearted and a practical joker and really sensitive to what other people think about him, he's also reclusive and seems like a shut in but when people get to know him he's a true friend
he has god like powers because of all the gods he killed, he can be hurt but regenerates health faster than a bullet
age 15

i fucked up his sunglasses so just imagine they're on there

>>327479
You didn't spell it "DEAGLE", what the hell is the matter with you? You have shamed your family!

>>327479
oh god he's mpreg

sajindarkwizardkillerdirge 2010/06/14(Mon)14:43 No. 17682 ID: 9cb4b3
File 127655182415.png - (35.29KB , 664x589 , truley.png )

>>327479
truley a master after my own heart

>>327479
that reminds me of drizzt hes my favorite book character

I wonder if that thing is related to the half volto from Mudy Quest 2. Maybe they'll team up to fight crime!

>>327479
sometimes it's hard for me to tell if you're an artistic genius or the greatest troll of all time.

Fredrick!FaGGoTTciw 2010/06/14(Mon)16:33 No. 17688 ID: badf27
File 127655843546.png - (36.11KB , 635x597 , rubyblastoffstupid.png )

>a whole bunch of nonsense

Ruby thinks this is STUPID. She blasts off with a stolen ROCKET PACK.

Mneme!CRITTerXzI 2010/06/14(Mon)16:47 No. 17691 ID: c4c313
File 127655925740.jpg - (196.19KB , 541x550 , fraggle1_preview.jpg )

>>327426

No, I'm-

>>327435
>>327431

DANCE YOUR CARES AWAY,
WORRY'S FOR ANOTHER DAY.
LET THE MUSIC PLAY
DOWN AT FRAGGLE ROCK.

ok now I'm trolling.

It's not that Nedynvors are depicted as being criminals or bullies, it's that they're depicted as large, brutish creatures with huge pummeling fists when they're actually lightweight and somewhat frail. It's not a matter of personality, it's a matter of completely ignoring their physiology.

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:30 No. 17699 ID: d560d6
File 127656545474.gif - (11.48KB , 640x480 , TOMCANNOTINTOSPACE1.gif )

>>327488
Ruby, wait! You've forgotten someone!

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:31 No. 17700 ID: d560d6
File 127656547139.gif - (8.57KB , 640x480 , TOMCANNOTINTOSPACE2.gif )

...

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:31 No. 17701 ID: d560d6
File 127656548915.gif - (13.98KB , 640x480 , TOMCANNOTINTOSPACE3.gif )

..?

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)18:32 No. 17703 ID: d560d6
File 127656552285.gif - (14.68KB , 640x480 , TOMCANNOTINTOSPACE4.gif )

BEST END

>>327503
*applause*

>>327492
>It's not that Nedynvors are depicted as being criminals or bullies, it's that they're depicted as large, brutish creatures with huge pummeling fists when they're actually lightweight and somewhat frail. It's not a matter of personality, it's a matter of completely ignoring their physiology.
I'm pretty sure this again comes down to the idea of exceptions. Especially if they work at it, I'm sure there can be physically-intimidating Nedynvor fighters, just like there can be pansy-ass scrawny orcs. There can be dwarf giants and dwarves with giantism.

Unless you meant Ashedel. She's not really brutish with pummeling fists. In fact the most combat-worthy thing she did, besides getting thoroughly beaten by Coriander after her surprise attack was shrugged off, was rough up an old man.

>>327505
I don't even think it should come down to exceptions. Just a list of generalities that can be followed but also diverged from. We know that the average person is social, brash, and always striving for more. But luckily we aren't all cookie cutter pieces (though too many people are for my liking). There's a whole decent-sized portion of the population that doesn't like socializing, though. There are an infinite number of mental and physical anomalies that any person, or member of any sentient species can poses. And any given individual probably has hundreds. So I guess there SHOULD be a rule, but "exceptions" should actually be more common, with the rule still being the biggest group but nowhere near an overall majority.

>>327505
They have to be lightweights in order to fly. Although even then it's just barely possible.

Anonymous 2010/06/14(Mon)22:39 No. 17716 ID: f58d30
File 127658035747.gif - (127.25KB , 320x240 , applause.gif )

>>327503
Holy. Shit.

The thing is that Nedynvor wouldn't be threatening in the punchy sense, rather they'd be threatening in the "our feet are blades and will kill you dead" sort of way.

I still kinda cringe a bit when I think about how Deme pumped his leg into The Admiral over and over and really skewered his guts like that.

He'll be avenged. One day.

I'm late here, but

>b) borrow a race improperly
>DiveKnightBladesQuest
Borrowed races there work just like all the other races. Which is to say, they say very little about a character, except sometimes cultural background (all cats are criminals, all Voltos are nobility) affiliations (goblins seem to be fairly isolationist societies, largely ignoring other settlements) and often mean basically nothing (the Nedynvor and Mudkip, and to a lesser extent, ogre).

This is not a realistic take on racial differences really, but it doesn't have to be. The races are primarily visual differentiators, which aid the more simple art style in effectively conveying information. There is no complicated racial politics nor real biological logic, but there doesn't have to be. Not all quests need to emphasize that sort of thing.