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File 133804118411.png - (114.33KB , 1327x725 , Voting mockup.png )
55296 No. 55296 ID: 3734f6

Here on thchan/quest, every single quest I have come across without exception performs actions based on user upvote and downvote.

However, lacking a built in voting mechanism this is very cluttered. Even if you ignore downvotes of downvotes, counting who votes for what is a nightmare and bogs down quests. It also takes up a lot of unnecessary space with posts.

It would be far more practical if there was a built in voting mechanism, where you could up or downvote each post (ideally, have the option to use a [vote] tag to section off a post into parts which are voted on separately.

Also would be great if it color coded outlined the posts (based on how positive or negative the total score is) and that votes are recorded such that you can see who voted for what.
Expand all images
>>
No. 55297 ID: 45a8e8

good idea!
>>
No. 55299 ID: 117e69

A decent idea, I'll support it.
>>
No. 55301 ID: d1e9bf

This wouldn't really help quests with free-form objectives and minimal planning; E.G. 99% of them. Based on what I know of the quest, I imagine it'd be great for Guns for Hire, but in most other cases it'd just encourage people to vote for the first suggestions because "Eh it's close enough". Most quests would only receive one or two suggestions which, as an author and a reader, is heartbreaking to see.

It's a superfluous system, and more of a hassle than anything else. And if you find it hard to tally votes the normal way then, well, you're probably illiterate. Sorry.
>>
No. 55306 ID: 9480d0

My quests don't usually work on user upvote and downvote; the exception is for direct control of the player avatar in the Sword and control over drones in Undermind, and those were both supposed to be flawed forms of control. When it comes to the actual protagonists, my quests generally work on the character selecting the suggestion they think sounds best, either from rationality or emotional appeal.

Even in the case of direct voting (which has not served me very well even when I have used it), the only real use I see for this is being able to more easily tell which suggesters are posting repeatedly, which you can already ssssorta do with the pony option.

And, as Trout says, it would reduce suggestions. I'm suffering from a surplus in Lunar right now, but I have felt the lonesome sting of low suggestions before.
>>
No. 55307 ID: 1f8505

>have felt the lonesome sting of low suggestions before.

That's essentially my quest all the time. :c
>>
No. 55308 ID: 132b99

>>55307
you get like 6 each time, that's not low. not a TON but not little.
>>
No. 55312 ID: f2cd76

yeah, but what about dynamic IP address cheating?
>>
No. 55315 ID: 886a4d

I like this idea. Of course whether its heeded or not would be the GM's perogative. IT would simply be a tool to help them decide between two radically different plans that they like equally.
>>
No. 55316 ID: bccf7b

And then on the day when everyone upvotes the WorstIdea and quest goes in BadDirection, it'll be even more the suggesters' fault.

Quests get enough band-wagonning as it is with all our silly wants for relationships, fan service, and HUGS. I can only see this going very poorly in the long run.

(Not to mention it's kinda like saying ">>2319 This." over and over)
>>
No. 55319 ID: f7ae22

>>And if you find it hard to tally votes the normal way then, well, you're probably illiterate. Sorry.
Suggestions in more complex quests are often not a binary thing, so it can be hard to tell what the actual consensus opinions towards different actions are.

I'm in favor of post votes and even suggested it like two years ago in the "Suggestions for improving the site." thread. An example of a kusaba board that implemented post voting is http://boards.fightingamphibians.org/v/

Most people who read quests also don't actually suggest often or at all, post voting would have the potential to increase participation by lowering the barrier to entry. People do not really like just posting "This." or other low content posts since it just clutters up the thread, and it has been actively condemned by some quest authors. I also think it would actually decrease bandwagoning of early posts because it would make it so you could just remove your upvote of the earlier post and put it on a later one that made a convincing argument for a different action. As it currently is, you would need to delete your old post and make a new post, or do something like link your old post and say "changing vote from X to Y" which can make it more annoying to determine a consensus.

I'm not sure how I feel about downvoting, especially downvoting past 0, because I don't think someone should be so discouraged from participating just because they made an unpopular suggestion. It can get kind of bad already (especially with fast running quests) with people getting super mad at bad suggestions. I think it might actually end up with less of a blatantly negative attitude towards people that make a bad suggestion because people would now have a way to show their disapproval without making a bunch of dumb posts in the quest about it.

Using proxies or a dynamic IP to support a suggestion already happens sometimes, but post voting does make it a bit easier to do so. There are some ways to discourage this, but they also tend to discourage new users as well. The previously linked fightingamphibians used to just be free voting but it now seems to be that by posting you gain a currency that can be used for voting, which I think restricts voting too much and makes it no longer an easy way for people to participate in quests without posting.
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No. 55325 ID: 131de9

I'm not particularly in favor of the whole voting suggestions up or down angle here. The main problem is that nobody's going to vote a post up/down and make another explaining their reasoning. I'd much rather see this:

You should punch that guy!
> No you shouldn't, he'd get mad.
Yes you should! It shows dominance, and the shock will give you time to run for it!
>I agree!

As opposed to just:

You should punch that guy! [Voted +1 (+2/-1)]

Debates are important. Especially in quests where the protagonist is actually supposed to be receiving suggestions from people and acting on their own initiative. Most popular idea=what to do by raw numbers is actually pretty rare in my experience.

Now, what would be nice is some sort of color coding system like in the OP image there to make it easier to work out when a bunch of people are in agreement, or one person is just making a lot of suggestions. Come to think of it, everyone's little ID tag is already a 6 digit hex code. You could just give everyone a border around their posts of that color or something. Way easier to catch how these 3 posts in this discussion are all from teal than these three discussions are all from 3734f6.
>>
No. 55326 ID: c4a1fc

>>55325
We have ponychan for that. Unique avatars and names. Yours is a yellow unicorn with green wings named Dark Honey Breeze.
>>
No. 55327 ID: 2563d4

>Debates are important.
If only they actually happened on /questdis/, rather than in the goddamn quest threads.
>>
No. 55328 ID: c4a1fc

>>55327
They do when they don't concern immediate issues. Sometimes.
>>
No. 55329 ID: 72d49b

I like this principle, but I worry that it could be a huge hassle for Dylan to code.
Also, the color-coded borders are obtrusive as fuck. I think that just the number should be color coded (and of course these colors should have proper definitions in the CSS files). Ideally borders like you describe would be the same as the borders around posts... although I just now notice that kusaba styles don't seem to have those. So what I mean is that it should have single-pixel borders of a fairly low conrast color, as seen in stylesheets such as Yotsuba, seen on other imageboards.

This would not be suited to all quests, but it would be helpful to more than a few, and even in those where everybody makes a ton of posts arguing about every little detail, it can help show how much public opinion supports a given idea.

The real potential issue here, I think, is that is actually can make vote counting harder. If one guy makes a post "We should totally take option A because of this" and gets X amount of upvotes, and then someone else says, "Yeah, and another reason we should take option A is because of this other thing" and gets Y amount of upvotes, then what's the true number of votes for option A? And what is someone makes multiple unrelated statements in one post, what do his upvotes mean then? The former could be partly rectified by adding the ability to click the link and see a list of the six-digit hash identifiers, but even then it's a lot more work for the quest runner, and I see no solution to the latter case besides the one involving dynamic divs. Both of these are non-trivial coding endeavors.

>>55325
People can just make an additional post if they have additional supporting arguments.

As for identifying people, click [Pony] at the top of the page. You'll see everyone is issued a cute little avatar.

>>55326
>green wings
That's its mane.
>>
No. 55332 ID: 3734f6

>>55319
this pretty much sums up my rationale.
I believe it will allow for a decrease in bandwagoning and an increase in participation.

Many people are lurking and don't want to post a "do this" post. And when there is little participation having a single post with 5 upvotes vs 1 post and 4 saying "I agree with that one guy" ...

Plus it allows for great flexibility in making post amendments.
For example, someone makes a good post, it gets upvoted (say, score of +20; 25 for 5 against)
Then someone else says "but wait, make the following correction to it") and it also gets a net vote of +10 (15 for 5 against), its clear and easy to see what the consensus is. (it is do the first post while applying the correction to it)

>People will not provide reasoning
I think people will provide more reasoning, currently people are trying to keep the reasoning short to avoid overly cluttering the already cluttered posting area.

>>55329
This is why it is essential to allow downvotes; people could abstain, vote up, or vote down (as well as change vote) very easily... And vote on multiple ideas, and vote on posts after they already posted... The eventuality is that all people interesting in voting will vote on each post.
If post saying do X has +20 votes and Post Y has +15, then you would have had a problem if downvoting was not allowed. But if downvoting is allowed its clear that both are popular (Y might have 25 upvotes and 10 downvotes).

It feels kinda bad when your idea is downvoted but hey, same happens with people downvoting it via words rather then a number.

>Difficult to code
I wouldn't think so, but if it is then he can tell us "this will not be implemented due to difficulty of coding" rather then not even suggesting it because we are afraid it might be difficult to code.

>Colored borders obtrusive
I don't really find them obtrusive, it helps knowing at a glance what is what.
A border is required if allowing sub votes in a post. If it is not allowed then it just means more multi posts.
The border can be made much much thinner and semi transparent, I just threw together a rough demo not the final goal.
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No. 55333 ID: 132b99

it SOUNDS good. but it will fall flat in practice. when someone posts a dumb idea right after the update and it gets +5 and the next ten posts are all great ideas but they don't have +6 on any because people all like each idea for different reasons.
>>
No. 55334 ID: f7ae22

>>55333
How does post voting cause more people to favor a "dumb" idea than not having post voting? If anything it would prevent that situation because of the ability to downvote.
>>
No. 55338 ID: 132b99

>>55334
you mean everyone would get more then one vote point? and how would it add points during the thread?
author makes a post,
peeps suggest
peeps vote
author tallies and makes next post,
peeps suggest
???????
>>
No. 55340 ID: 886a4d

Every post would have a like / dislike button. You like the posts you want to have happen and dislike the ones you don't want to see. You can still post arguments but it will give people who don't have anything further to say but still want to affirm / deny an action a voice.
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No. 55341 ID: 132b99

>>55340
that sounds like a giant fight of everyone voting yes or no to every single post.
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No. 55343 ID: 55c4cf

I've wanted this really bad, it is a good idea. I've intended to implement this on a project of mine as well. It will encourage more participation and a more entailing view of readers support of an idea. Some readers who never suggest will be able to upvote and downvote suggestions, and the conundrum of "Do I make a suggestion if I have the same view as others?" Not everyone enjoys restating the same ideas or posting referential "This" posts.

I've wanted this for a long time, I would gladly volunteer to 'experiment' the idea on new quests/threads once my computer arrives.
>>
No. 55346 ID: 117e69

>>55301
Do I really need to say it?

Alright, I'll say it.

Tozol Quest.
>>
No. 55350 ID: 55c4cf

It could be made so that when you start a thread you can choose whether or not you use up and down -voting.

Which would allow a quest author to choose whether or not they want to use it. If it's not "forced" on the authors who are so opposed to it, then it shouldn't be an issue to have it.
>>
No. 55353 ID: f2cd76

>>55350

should be simple enough to give people a choice to see it or not. also with the borders thing. because let's face it- pony is too obnoxious to look at all the time.
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No. 55355 ID: de5cd9

I think it's important to remember that a lot of authors don't have all the possible solutions or options in mind. Often someone will suggest an action and, in the way they justify it, make the author aware of something they hadn't already realized. In other words, authors often get ideas from suggestions... or, indeed, early warning of mistakes they've made!

Discussion and/or debate within a quest thread can be a plague sometimes, but if a voting system would cut down on people giving reasons why they think option X is a good/bad idea, I have to say I disapprove. This besides my previous point about my quests working by persuasion and not voting to begin with.

>>55334
>How does post voting cause more people to favor a "dumb" idea than not having post voting?
People voting for what's most popular. It defeats the entire purpose, but people do it anyway. It happened to me in the The Sword, and I found it extremely annoying.
>>
No. 55357 ID: c4a1fc

>>55355
Basically, some guy writes a quick, stupid, but funny-sounding idea and like-minded people vote for it. If the update is soon, people think, "Well, I'm just one guy, my downvote won't matter. I could write a longer, well-thought out suggestion, but by then it would probably be too late to matter, the update is in like 1 minute. Oh well, might as well hop on the bandwagon/say nothing."
>>
No. 55360 ID: f7ae22

>>55355
>>People voting for what's most popular. It defeats the entire purpose, but people do it anyway. It happened to me in the The Sword, and I found it extremely annoying.
>>55357

This already happens, how is it possible for the built-in post voting we don't have to be the cause of it?

Also, nothing forces you to go with the most popular option, and built-in post voting doesn't change this.
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No. 55361 ID: c4a1fc

>>55360
I think that Jukashi believes that built-in voting will intensify the problem, since people will just vote for the first thing that hey see and like. Before, they needed to make some small effort to say "This", and generally onyl 2 or so people did at a time. The rest just stayed silent and let those three carry it. Now they'll all spam votes for the first thing they see and like, which would make the aforementioned problem worse.

Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate right now and quite possibly putting words into Jukashi's mouth, so don't quote me too heavily.
>>
No. 55364 ID: 3734f6

>>55355
>Discussions gives ideas
Yes, and this facilitates actual discussion by removing the use of posts to vote. Thus every post is an actual discussion. This is essential on any high traffic quest.
>People voting for what's most popular.
This is the CURRENT state. It is only done because of the clumsy voting mechanism of "this" posts.
By allowing a person to up/down/abstain/recast vote for every individual post with one click, voting is made smoother and this decreases, not increases.

Someone makes a good post, everyone upvotes it.... currently to change your vote requires going back, deleting old post, and making a new one... but wait, you actually made an ARGUMENT in your old post so you must actually leave the old one but make a new one pointing at it and saying "changing my vote from X to Y"...
It is ridiculous and likely to get lost and people just go "meh" and leave their bandwagon vote.

With my suggestion this is NOT the case. They had already voted for the first ok idea... but then they see a better one. So they spend 1 click removing their vote from the first idea (or even altering it to a downvote, again 1 click). and 1 click upvoting the better idea that was made later. It takes them all of 5 seconds and does not require removing their old argument (Although they can add new argument).
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No. 55366 ID: 3734f6

>>55338
>you mean everyone would get more then one vote point?
There are no points. you get to vote once per POST... on every single post.
So if there are 17 people reading the thread, and 5 posts were made, each of the 17 may upvote/downvote/abstain on each individual post, and may cast or alter their vote with a single click.

>>55341
Yes, only not a fight just a friendly argument as long as people don't actually get rude to each other.
And since voting is done by 1 click rather then typing out a response that is inbuilt.

Better then a giant fight with recursive (upvoting/downvoting upvotes/downvotes... multiple levels deep) posts of voting with words.

>Make it optional
Fine with me
>>
No. 55368 ID: 049dfa

>>55364

>It is only done because of the clumsy voting mechanism of "this" posts.

No it fucking isn't. The means you are using to arrive at these conclusions are fucking baffling to me.

>>55366

>Better then a giant fight with recursive (upvoting/downvoting upvotes/downvotes... multiple levels deep) posts of voting with words.

Except that that discussion will invariably reveal more about what the readers actually want than +/-n.

Also I know for sure that I would absolutely ignore the shit out of any vote tallies and anyone who decided to use them would end up excluded from participation in my quests because of it. Not intentionally or anything, I just think it is a stupid and useless idea. So people who used it in other quests wouldn't be able to actually participate in quests where the author doesn't give a shit.

Also having the numbers there would ugly up the layout and generally just piss me off in general.
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No. 55369 ID: 132b99

>>55364
why WOULD they make a post with a argument? they voted for what they want, they have no more reason to make a post.
>>
No. 55370 ID: f7ae22

>>55368
I think it is a completely legitimate choice to ignore the votes, because not all quests just go with what the majority wants. I think the borders are going overboard and that the post voting should definitely have an option to be disabled if implemented. When creating a new thread there should be an option to disable post voting for the thread (so people know that the author doesn't care about them), and there should be a user-side option for hiding all voting.

I would say discussion in quests is a good thing and don't think it should really be frowned upon like it usually is. Long-term plans really belong in discussion threads, but short-term ones are usually better suited to the actual thread. I don't think that post voting will drastically effect the amount of discussion in either way. I think the rules page advising that "disagreeing with other suggestions" should be in the questdis thread and not the quest thread effects it way more than post voting could.
In-quest discussion also makes it actually reasonably possible to follow along with what the readers were thinking when reading an archived quest, unlike trying to follow along in the questdis thread while you're reading the quest.
>>
No. 55371 ID: f7ae22

>>55369
The reason would be the same reason people make arguments in quests now. It's to convince other people to vote the same way.
>>
No. 55381 ID: 131de9

>>55326

Oh wow that's amazing.
>>
No. 55382 ID: 31015f

>>55369

Uh, because you can't up/downvote posts if they don't exist? See if people have new ideas or want to contribute with new suggestions, they'll do it. The voting system is pretty much only going to sponge all the "+1" and "This" types of posts, and in general all the people that read quests but never suggest in them (which is the majority).

Anyways, nobody needs to get their panties in a twist, the authors DON'T HAVE to follow the voting system, and for a matter of fact, I know that most authors DON'T FOLLOW a democracy when deciding what suggestion is going to be followed. That's fine. They can keep doing that, nothing is going to change. And maybe I'm wrong, but I think Dylan can exclude threads from this system if the authors ask him to (Inb4 NO I CAN'T).

The only thing that's gonna be affected is that there'll be less suggestions in simple, binary updates. "You want to be boy or girl?" "Right door or left door." Instead of a bunch of posts, you'd get only two, with a different number of votes, and the occasional extra "BOTH!". In conclusion, the result would be the same, but with the voting system it would look neater, and easier to count. On the downside, I admit that many authors (myself included) wrongly measure the success of their quests by the number of suggestions. So this decrease of posts (without losing responses) might feel unpleasant at first.

Anyways, we're all speculating what's gonna happen. We'll never know if we don't give it a try.
>>
No. 55388 ID: 117e69

>>55382
There is one thing I had not thought of, and that's how this will effect the dynamics of threads being bumped. I guess it will encourage authors who use the vote system to avoid binary solutions or questions in favour of more open solutions or questions. Whether this is good or bad is unknown to me.
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No. 55391 ID: d6ae01

>POST VOTING
I dunno. I can kind of see the appeal, I guess, but I would prefer an option to enable or disable them on a thread-by-thread basis. I don't mind >this posts (it boosts my egoh god i really am trout) and having upvoting and downvoting would just be more to keep track of...I think. Would this be too complicated?

SPEAKING OF WHICH, POST EDITING: GOOD IDEA OR BEST IDEA???
I'm mostly thinking of it for quest authors to be able to fix mistakes without reporting it to me, maybe some way to limit it to OP?

Sadly Dylan is the only one who knows PHP and PEARL and SQL and... stuff... so i can only sit here and talk about how neat it would be.

i can code in BASIC and almost in LUA but that just doesn't quite cut it!
>>
No. 55392 ID: 71d68e

Voting will actually make the level of interest in a quest more evident, not less. After all, if people aren't interested in your quest at all, they won't bother voting (can't vote on what one isn't reading). But very often people who are interested in your quest just read it and don't comment.

So, for example, if your quest was getting maybe two comments per update, but gets 10 votes to each of those comments, you learn that more people're reading your quest than you previously thought.

Essentially, voting lowers the barrier to quest participation. Some authors might prefer that, and others might not.
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No. 55393 ID: 55c4cf

Authors who care about empty suggestions more than participation and results need to stop being babies.
>>
No. 55398 ID: 1444d5

>>55382
>The only thing that's gonna be affected is that there'll be less suggestions in simple, binary updates. "You want to be boy or girl?" "Right door or left door." Instead of a bunch of posts, you'd get only two, with a different number of votes, and the occasional extra "BOTH!"
For binary/otherwise quantised options, wouldn't it be better to place those options inside the quest post itself, rather than wait for people to make replies with the options in them before voting begins (inelegant)? Alternate lateral-think responses could still be posted as comments below.

Two more issues that would also need to be addressed: First, the ability to change your vote. Without being able to vote twice, delete your post, or post a "Disregard X, Y is better", you'd be locked into whatever option you voted for first. Second, leaving delineation of voteable options up to suggesters is open to abuse; whoever is the first with a popular option can tack on an additional clause. Subsequent posters either 'split the vote pool' by posting another voteable option without the clause, or you end up counting one block of votes for "X with Y", and another for "not Y" (if both have the same number of votes, which do you pick?).
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No. 55404 ID: d6ae01
File 133821083863.gif - (1.30MB , 474x198 , 1255605321_shocked.gif )
55404

>>55392
...........

YOU SOLD ME.

I'd still prefer it be optional if possible, but golly maybe I'd use it more than I thought.....
>>
No. 55405 ID: 3734f6

>>55370
yes, if an author wants to ignore it they still can. As well as looking at well thought arguments.

>>55369
because >>55371

>>55392
I think so too.
Lets say you have a choice, 2 people post their decision. option A gets 7 "this" posts and option B gets none. Tally is 8 v 1.
There are actually 30 readers but the others haven't bothered with "this" posts because they saw the overwhelming winner. With a "one click vote" mechanism they could and suddenly you see 20 votes and realize you have greater readership then you thought (some are still not voting due to one reason or another).

>>55382
eloquently put.

>>55391
I'd love some post editing.
This can make cheating somewhat of an issue but as you said, it can be limited to OP...
For players cheating with it can be mitigated via "view edits" button like on the Stardock forums http://forums.joeuser.com/425458
>>
No. 55406 ID: bccf7b

>>55392

> Improved Visibility of User Interest
Another good way to do this, which wouldn't fall through the cracks when people DON'T VOTE, is to implement a View Counter. Each time a thread is viewed (full, +50, etc), it increments the total views. Thus, a popular quest would have many views. It would act roughly the same as having many votes for (popular) decisions.


> Generic Counter-argument of Cynicism
While I would agree that it would potentially remove clutter, voting has a major down-side: Popularity.

If number of votes are not limited in a thread, someone can vote on every suggestion. This may be nice to increase the apparent "visibility" of a quest, but it can result in two scenarios:

1). People will rely on up-vote/down-vote rather than participation. More often than not, commenting seems to give way to just "Like"/"Dislike" banter in the form of Youtube buttons. (This may also increase levels of butthurt from those who see their ideas get down-voted to hell rather than simple ignored)

2). Stalemates and herd-mind will kick in as we've normally seen, and people will vote diametrically based on how others have voted.


Meaning in the long run, we're statistically more likely to end up with a bunch of the same things we see anyway, just with less stuff between each of the posts.

> What It Means
This is not to say these are the ONLY outcomes, but they are real world examples of the stuff. Moreover, to make sense of voting, we'd need the following requirements (this is where we get into the code-weeds):

1). Each IP/tripcode can only vote once per suggestion
2). Each suggestion must be clearly marked, or else non-suggestion posts deleted/hidden to prevent confusion during voting.
3). To prevent weird issues with Up/Down votes on old posts, there would need to be a way to "lock" them up to a certain point, essentially creating "voting cycles" under the administration of the quest author. This means that threads would require a mechanism for ownership, registered to an IP or tripcode.


> I Like Titles for Organization
On a completely unrelated note, while Up/Down voting is a good way for silent, non-post-oriented participation in a quest, a lot of this seems to come down to:

A). "I want to know that people are interested in my things", and
B). "I don't want to read a lot of posts saying the same suggestion"

While voting may improve the first, it essentially recreates the second, but it WILL incur one massive issue a poster in the thread had mentioned, but which no one seems to have thought of:

Reason.

So everyone decides the popular opinion is to use Suggestion#22. This is grand, but what happens is that no one goes to say "Yes, we should do the thing, but before that, we need to...."

That is the entire point of having posts. Banter and discussion are the LIFE BLOOD of a quest. Without Suggesters being able to offer opinion or changes to statements (without created a locked-in Yes/No scenario), Authors can't operate on meta-creativity.

Think of how many times a quest has suddenly changed direction or subtly integrated the speculation or reasoning of a suggestion. That's the power of posts. You don't get that with voting. You don't get that by skimming suggestions of trends. Think of what could have happened in some of our most popular quests if people were to have kept their wild speculations or candid rambling to themselves.

So no, I still think it's a bad idea.

> Another Approach
If people really want something to clean things up, make threaded posts. Replies (marked like a Spoiler Image, for example, to prevent auto-folding) immediately "fold into" their owner, rather than attaching at the end of a thread. This increases visibility of a popular talking point, organizes thoughts into discrete chains, and allows an author or reader to hide extra suggestions between posts by "folding" each sub-thread.

We'd also have a nice, cascading, and easy to read style for everything. To top it all off, it works exactly like voting: the more replies, likely a suggestion is a MAJOR POINT.

> Let's Review
Ways to pretend we're voting without voting!

1). Use a Thread View counter: this makes it so we know just how many people like to read your quest!

2). Implement a more structured, conversation-oriented style of threads and sub-threads, essentially facilitating the "logic" of voting without introducing a limitation of opinion, reason, and debate.

3). Just do what we've been doing, as while it's not as fancy as voting, it sure as hell has worked so far, and if people really are that concerned about clutter, there's /questdis/ for that.
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No. 55407 ID: bccf7b

>>55406

TL;DR:
- There is no "Always Works" solution. Posting and voting don't work if people don't do them.

- Visibility is a concern, but the only guaranteed numeric method is to track passively, not actively.

- Clutter is a way of life in threads and boards. You can either clean it up, or direct it elsewhere, but you should never stifle posts.

- People are sheep and will usually act as such. Don't give them a reason to click without thinking.

- Reading is good for you. If you don't read, you're probably not as interested in your quest as you thought.
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No. 55410 ID: 71d68e

I'm not particularly invested in the issue of whether to implement a voting system or not despite arguing that voting would help make viewers more visible. I did that mostly to counter the notion that the audience would be less visible.

Honestly, I don't think any method would alleviate author angst. There'll always be people wondering "Why don't people post to my quests?", "Why don't more people vote?", or "I get a bunch of views. Why aren't more of them posting?" I've seen that last one a fair deal on sites (forums, art sites, etc.) that track views. In the end, the only way to deal with that kind of worry is just to suck it up and keep posting your quest for as long as it's fun for you to do. If self-confidence issues are keeping an author from doing their quest, it'll likely still be a problem to overcome, no matter what.

I'll say that right now we're only making guesses about the effects a voting system would have. We don't know for sure what'd happen. I'm not so certain that discussions of the sort you've mentioned would disappear entirely. If people have something they really want to add or some little detail to discuss, I think there's a fair chance they'll still say it. Unless they happened to feel discouraged by a previously posted option already having a bunch of votes, which will happen at least a few times.

Speaking personally (i.e. I'm not going to make any argument that I'm a particularly representative site user), I can say that a voting system would increase my participation in this site. I make comments, but I read more than I comment. And if I have some subtle detail I want to add, I'll add it, but often what I had to say felt like it would just be going >this. We've already established some people don't really like doing that too much.

But with all that said, I'm perfectly fine with the site continuing as it currently is.
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No. 55413 ID: 2563d4

This whole up/down malarky is a load of balls, because all that will happen is that people click + on the one they like and - on every other one, or any suggestion by Seven.

(Being able to "audit" votes to see who clicked - on whom is pure drama-shitstorm territory.)

If you're going to do this, actually get some explicit semantics in on which posts are updates, and have the voting work as one ID gets to upvote one post since the last update. If they post and haven't voted yet, that's their default vote. Voting for a different thing without an update since moves the vote. If they post a second time, auto-ban them for not taking it to dis/. :V

Or leave it as people posting "this", which is mechanically identical but less work.
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No. 55414 ID: 6c61ee

I have yet to see a website where the introduction of an upvote/downvote system hasn't been horrible.
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No. 55415 ID: 2563d4

>>55414
Well, there's stackoverflow, but adding a reputation system to quests for "correct" or "accepted" suggestions is an outstanding idea for generating even more drama.
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No. 55418 ID: aef453

>>55414
I absolutely have to agree here, I have not seen a serious problem that requires implementing this whole voting that isn't fixed simply by more users posting, as is the entire point of a Kusaba-styled board. If nothing else and this system ABSOLUTELY HAS TO BE IMPLEMENTED, I want the option to not have any ugly boxes for voting on posts when I browse the boards, because I will refuse to take part in it.

I'm also against the idea of reply chains collapsing into each other, as that disorganizes posts by who they reply to rather than when they reply and would make the site feel more like Reddit, not something to be proud of. Probably a moot point regardless, as I don't think Kusaba would be able to function that way, but still worth noting.
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No. 55424 ID: bccf7b

>>55418

> More like Reddit
.... excellent point.
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No. 55428 ID: 09e5bf

I'd like this system without downvotes.

I can appreciate a lot of people liking an idea. I think that's fine to let them support it without posting.

But if you want an idea to not work, propose or support a better one.
>>
No. 55429 ID: d87b46

>>55428
The problem with that is the first good post is likely to recieve the most votes, so if you propose a better one the first post will most likely be chosen as people cannot change their votes to tell the author to do the newer suggestion.
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No. 55430 ID: 0006f5

>>55429
thats why every reader needs to be able to upvote -every- post, though it will still result in the first post getting the most attention like how things are already
>>
No. 55432 ID: 299ed3

>>55430
But that makes following quests turn more into work than fun.

It just seems easier to leave things as they are than to implement that.
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No. 55435 ID: 55c4cf

Look, I've wanted to at least try this option for my quest for a long time. I don't want it forced on everyone, either!

I realize a lot of you don't want things to change. Speculation and unrelated comparisons aren't really helpful. It might take a lot of work and only a couple people use it.

So what? Obviously leave the default option to not use the voting set-up. Allow people to ignore the votes if they want as readers. All of these things are absolutely fine. Just don't take away the adventure and experimentation. I think trying new things and having fun is what Questing is really all about (to me anyway), so refusing to try something that may or may not be beneficial or work out is all in the spirit of things.

Let the people who want it have it, then we can discuss whether or not it was the worst idea in the universe or a good idea that most people didn't care for.
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No. 55436 ID: 55c4cf

tl;dr I'd rather try it and be wrong than never do it and never know for sure.
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No. 55437 ID: 97486c

Is it possible to have a thread be created that can either allow or not allow voting?

That way those who want it can have it and those who don't can just ignore it.
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No. 55446 ID: 3734f6

So, basically we have 2 camps here. those that think this is a good idea and those who think this will literally collapse society (specifically, tgchan/quest's society) prophesying doom and gloom.

So, how about an opt in test run?

>>55413
You can audit who voted on what right now in and quests with lots of posts this is often done.
Its not a pure drama shitstorm right now (merely used to catch duplicates) so why would it magically become one?

>Colored borders
It SEEMS to me that this is universally loathed.
So this part apparently needs to be dropped (unless I misread... if only there was a voting mechanism...)
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No. 55458 ID: 1444d5

How about hidden voting? You can see your votes, and the quest author can see the totals, but you can't see everyone else's votes. That should go some way to curb the herd-mentality that generally follows vote systems. Of course the drawback would be requiring the quest author to log in somehow, or be stuck accessing from only one IP (or however the ID is generated).
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No. 55459 ID: 3734f6

>>55458
you already raised the IP issues that ensue... also CURRENTLY you can already see everyone else's vote.
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No. 55461 ID: 695c02

>>55437
What this guy said
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No. 55463 ID: 049dfa

>>55446

>So, basically we have 2 camps here. those that think this is a good idea and those who think this will literally collapse society (specifically, tgchan/quest's society) prophesying doom and gloom.

If you are going to continue being this brand of shithead in this thread, I will literally lock it and ban you. You don't get to make a suggestion and then strawman the ever-loving shit out of people who disagree with it.
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No. 55471 ID: 252e1b

>>55446

I really like the colored borders. In fact I wish they had more snazzy colors. Hot pink, neon orange, lime green...
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No. 55481 ID: 97486c

>>55461
Really, having it be optional solves almost every problem this is bringing up. It lets authors choose before hand if they actually want voting in their thread or not.
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No. 55484 ID: 3734f6

>>55463
My sincere apologies.
It was meant as a humorous exaggeration not an actual argument or a put down.
I'd have done the same for the pro side but couldn't think of anything funny to say there.
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No. 55521 ID: 3734f6

>>55471
are you being sarcastic (neon pink?) or serious? Cause I like the colors but so far I have only noticed people saying they don't.
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No. 55526 ID: 252e1b

>>55521

Dude, I like obnoxious coloring schemes (actually I like high-contrast schemes but to most people that's the same thing).
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