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File 138527786322.jpg - (75.94KB , 549x306 , Alien Love Quest Discussion Screen.jpg )
77952 No. 77952 ID: 5ce288

A discussion for my latest quest
Expand all images
>>
No. 78126 ID: 5ce288

If characters are speaking a language other than English I'll point it out.

Solwyn is bilingual, so is Arin. The language they share is English.

The strike through text represents how Solbol voices sound when they're not trying to imitate a human language. I also put it through words that are of solbyd origin.

Most Solbols try to imitate humans as best they can, but both genders speak in a lower register than the average human.

Solwyn, and some most 'feminine' dressing Solbols speak like human women when they speak human languages. (the male/female divide being something Solbols typically learn about fast when integrating into human culture.)
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No. 78135 ID: fd6ae9

I had caught the strike as meaning a heavy accent. It just occurred to me it wouldn't be unreasonable for the faceless angel thing to have started speaking to Wyn in her native language, and for her to not immediately notice.

Also:

>The first letter of my next sentence is the first letter of my name.
>T
:V

Faceless angel really should have used a semicolon if it wanted to be I...s and not T...s.
>>
No. 78136 ID: 5ce288

:3c
>>
No. 78258 ID: 5ce288
File 138621552069.jpg - (102.59KB , 628x289 , Four Faces of Arin.jpg )
78258

This is Arin. He's the Deuteragonist of Alien Love Quest. He has quite a few traits, but we haven't got in depth with his personality and background.

He's shy, pansexual and leans more towards the girly side of gender expression.
He is a transexual man (also known as FtM).
He's timid and liberal.
He's an American, and Muslim.

Since we're spending more time in Solwyn's point of view, I figure I would be free to answer any questions you had about him here.

Image Breakdown (Left to Right):
Pre-transition
In his pajamas
In his day clothes
In his undies and binder
>>
No. 78262 ID: 7bbaae

>>78258
Why did you make him transsexual anyway? Nobody voted for it.
>>
No. 78265 ID: 5ce288

>>78262
One said female. Whenever possible I try to use all suggestions. So he is a ('biologically female') man.

Also because I asked a friend who has responded to the quest, but was unable to due to being at my house for a tie breaker before the third vote came around.
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No. 78266 ID: fd6ae9

>>78262
Obviously it was a direct result of the vote count. (female 2 male). :V

More seriously, I expect it was planned from the start. If we'd voted for a female partner she would have been mtf.

>looks up deuteragonist
...now there's a useful term. Why did that never up in any of my English or literature courses?
>>
No. 78267 ID: fd6ae9

>wait no, it actually was a direct result of the vote count
>my stupid pun was right
...I am both amused and pleased.
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No. 78269 ID: 7bbaae

>>78265
Uh, no. That's bullshit. You asked if he should be transsexual directly, that was a separate part of the vote.

Also, it was a vote. "using all the suggestions" makes no sense in that context, because they weren't suggestions. They were votes.
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No. 78273 ID: 5ce288

>>78269
That is the reason why Arin is trans. Someone said "female" and another said "man". I was itching to work on the update and asked for a tiebreaker from a friend who made the music for SYQ. "Well trans man meets both requirements." is the answer I got. And that was true.

The third suggestion gave me only the mars sign, which I took to mean man because I asked specifically for gender, instead of sex. That still meets both requirements.

While no one asked specifically for Arin to be trans, they didn't ask specifically for him to be cisgender either. That part of the question went unanswered, so I choose based on suggestions instead of defaulting to cisgender.

"<Gender>. (No <s/he> doesn't.)" is not a response I got to my question of "What is your lover's gender? (Additionally, does your lover have a nontraditional gender background?)".

I consider a compromise (or taking a bit of this and that) during 'votes' to be a legitimate option. Suggestions are a platform for the author to leap off of into the next part of the quest.

>Uh, no. That's bullshit.
There is no need for that.
>>
No. 78282 ID: 7bbaae

>>78273
I still don't think that makes any sense, because "no" should've been the default conclusion to the question of having a nontraditional gender role, because it's nontraditional. How was having 3 votes for male and 1 female a tie, anyway?

But if you're sticking with that explanation, then whatever.
>>
No. 78283 ID: 5ce288

>>78282
When I started wanting to update these were the only responses.

>>/quest/549666
>>/quest/549667

As I began working on the update this response came up.

>>/quest/549671

This response was open to interpretation, but since I listed FtM right under the same astrological sign that was used with a check box, I felt that it didn't contradict the decision that had been made already for previously explained reasons.

>Cisgender is default because you used layman's terms to explain the options.
No, it's not. Cis is not default in relations to my quests (and while we're on the subject straight is not default is relation to my quests, and male is not default in relation to my quests). My work is very much aligned against this type of thinking.

It's fine and understandable that readers would assume this was a the default, but that's not how things are for me as a writer. And being surprised by that I think is honestly a good thing for readers.

>But if you're sticking with that explanation, then whatever.
It's not about sticking with an explanation. It's about being straight forward and truthful with my readers about my creative process.
>>
No. 78284 ID: beeca1

>>78269
>>78282
Why do you care?
>>
No. 78290 ID: dbe554

>>78283

It's not exactly straightforward and truthful if you don't really mention this process when a character is being created, Lie by Omission and all that. Feels kinda insulting for some if you gave a few choices, but then threw in a 'sudden twist' that throws in illusion of choice.
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No. 78291 ID: 5ce288

There are many aspect of character creation that I don't mention. I don't explain how your gender choice would affect the character's background, name, race, or appearance. I give a very generalized "I would like suggestions for this aspect of the character."

I don't view it as a sudden twist, but I understand why you would think that. You made an assumption, it was subverted. That's part of telling a good story in my opinion. Some assumption will be right, some will be wrong.

It's not an illusion of choice, illusion of choice would be if both options lead to the same outcome. Solwyn is a very different character from the theoretically Loony. Arin is different character from any of the other gender options.

If the results had been.
"Man"
"Man"
"Man"

You would have most likely gotten a cisgender man as the Deuteragonist. If the results had been.

"male"
"woman"
"girl"

There's a good chance you would have ended up with a transgender woman as the Deuteragonist. You should not feel insulted because the result of your suggestions are not exactly what you expect.

All suggestions were important to the process of creating the character.

If I had say, gone with the assumptions of majority rule and cisgender as default only two suggestions would have been important. I would rather make all the suggestions important when I feel that's possible because that means more readers contributed to the story. Even if it was in a way they didn't expect.
>>
No. 78293 ID: dbe554

>>78291

Most of that is fine I suppose, but as for assumptions when coming down to Suggestions...

If that were the case, it would mean any suggestion is down to suspect. Say someone suggested eat a piece of cheese, if by challenging the normal assumption, you instead feel that her 'piece' should instead be a whole wheel of cheese, get her sick and have her ill the entire day, that would certainly challenge the assumption but that would derail the suggested items in question and generally turn people off from the quest.

One doesn't usually want to have to play "Guess what the Quest Host is assuming!" in order to feel their suggestions have merit.

I mean you can do what you feel, and I'm going to watch this quest anyways, but I'm just pointing out what some might feel in reaction to it.
>>
No. 78298 ID: 5ce288

>>78293
The difference is that piece is defined as "a portion of an object or of material, produced by cutting, tearing, or breaking the whole." On the other hand trans men have been referred to by some people as men who are female, gender definition is a very shifting part of many cultures. One fits the suggestions, and is an obvious immediate take away that is merely different from the average assumption, the other is deliberately twisted the words.

I'm here to write. My comics are, because of personal experience and beliefs, always going to be as queer friendly as possible. Part of that is that I, as a writer, do not assume that not being queer is the default state of being.

I can see why that would surprise someone used to a different point of view, but they shouldn't be offended. In my stories, queerness is always going to be treated as a little unremarkable, as least from a narrative point of view (obviously when writing characters with different views they're going to have a reasonable reaction based on who they are, not the neutrality of the narrative).

To me, when I read a response that ignores the second question I go. "<Choice> and no opinion." It could be that they felt they needn't give an opinion on the second, that silence meant 'no nontraditional gender history'. But I don't know that person. Most of my regular readers are simple a code of numbers to me, and while their responses are appreciated greatly I can't make assumptions on their intentions.

Suggestions will be interpreted through my eyes, because that's my role in this quest. And if you're a long time reader, just consider knowing how I'm going to interpret a question over the newbies a fun bonus.
>>
No. 78310 ID: fd6ae9

In my opinion, the best way to handle character creation is to be quick and decisive about it. If you let it run to long, we start squabbling and getting mean about it. So you did that right.

And there's certainly nothing wrong with the way you chose to handle it, or playing with our expectations a little.
>>
No. 78311 ID: 7bbaae

Well I sure didn't appreciate it. A vote should be either straightforward or explained beforehand as being fuzzy.

Also, I'll point out a second reason why a traditional gender role should've been the default: the checkboxes. If you do not interact with a checkbox, it is empty. As in, not requesting it. But you gave it to us anyway.
>>
No. 78312 ID: 5ce288

>>78311
That's the first decent reason for assuming that traditional gender is the default. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I thought about putting a check box with cisgender, but I couldn't think of a cisgender symbol. I'll find one in the future to avoid that confusion.

However. Everything is up to author interpretation. Suggestions are suggestions, nothing says I had to go with what the majority wanted and nothing says I couldn't combine suggestions for an interesting outcome. I think the outcome that came out is better than the alternative.
>>
No. 78313 ID: 7bbaae

>>78312
>first decent reason
Not according to most sensible people!

Keep in mind that I am a suggester, complaining to you about how you handled something as simple as a vote. Don't dismiss my objections offhand by saying you're the quest author and you can do whatever you want. That's the attitude of a child.
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No. 78317 ID: 5ce288

>>78313
You've also been exceptionally rude in expressing your opinion. I take exception to that as I have worked to maintain as civil a discourse as possible despite differing opinions.

>Uh, no. That's bullshit.
>Not according to most sensible people!

Your objections were not dismissed off hand, they were reasoned through, explained and discussed. And to suggest otherwise and imply I'm being childish is also quite rude.

My decision was final, and sensible with a noteworthy flaw in presentation. I have fulfilled my responsibility to explain it, and noted the flaws it has had.

>Remember that the author is in charge of their quest. They can run it however they like, and if they want anything to stop, they can request as such.

Feel free to discuss this topic with others, but I see no use to repeating the same information if you choose not to accept it.

tl;dr I will not be responding to questions about the decision on Arin's gender until something new it brought to the table. And I feel I have something to add to that information.

I will be available (though likely not today) to discuss other subjects. Presuming I have something to bring to the discussion.
>>
No. 78320 ID: 7bbaae

>>78317
That was not "exceptionally" rude. I wonder if you've actually had to deal with many truly rude people in your life. I figured you'd just stonewall me eventually anyway, though, regardless of how I tried to get through to you.

Why? Because you're sheltered. You've spent too much time on tumblr, with all the echo chamber positive reinforcement it encourages. By the way, nobody uses "cisgender" in a professional manner. It's not "layman's terms" to speak of transsexuals as "non-traditional" gender roles. The real way things work is this: when comparing transsexuals to non-transsexuals, you just say that the non-transsexuals aren't transsexual. You don't make up a new term for a baseline case. The only reason "cisgender" exists is to apply an easy label to people the tumblr crowd wants to feel superior to. It's an elitist term.

That's what the social justice warrior stuff is really about. Feeling better than other people, not championing a cause. And you bought into it, didn't you?
>>
No. 78321 ID: fd6ae9

>>78320
Dude, believe what you want, but you are kind of being a jerk about this. You're badgering an author for making a decision, to what end? It's not like we're suddenly going to retcon the plot and change the character's gender.

Her decision wasn't unfair, and even if it was atypical it didn't violate any contract with the readers. And unusual outcomes or author (or character) interpretations from or reactions to suggestions aren't a bad thing, or even unprecedented. You're free not to like it, but badgering her about it accomplishes nothing.
>>
No. 78324 ID: 5ce288

>>78320
Okay. I'll address this because it's a personal attack, which is technically a different subject.

It was exceptionally rude. I feel that your point of view is far more sheltered than mine, as you can't seem to understand that people can have different points of views, and that's okay. Because I don't agree with you I must be wrong or sheltered in your eyes.

Cisgender is not an elitist term, it's just a shorter way of saying "your biological sex matches the sex you were assigned at birth." Trans people don't look down their noses at cisgender people, in fact, many idolize cisgender people in sometime unhealthy ways.

And yeah, it's layman's term to call being trans having a non-traditional gender history, because trans is a term not everyone is going to be familiar with, and "having a non-traditional gender history" is much more explanatory.

I think rather than the problem of me visiting tumblr too often, you've stayed on 4chan too much. In the real world you can't just yell your opinion at someone until they agree with you. Trust me that's how I spent a lot of my highschool years. You're not getting anywhere that way.


This thread is for discussing Alien Love Quest. If you want to talk to me about me, you should leave a message in my ask box of tumblr. The link is in all my quests. You can also e-mail me, as my email is linked in all my posts.
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No. 78325 ID: 7bbaae

>>78324
Alright, I apologize for being a jerk about this, this is just really frustrating. I understand you have a different point of view. I believe it's a heavily biased one. Also, I kindof wanted you to admit the main reason you made the character transsexual was because you wanted to, not because of the vote. It seems really obvious that's why you did it, and it would've been better to leave out the choice altogether and just have the character be transsexual no matter what- then it would've been a twist, instead of a deception. Oh, and I think you would be surprised at how many people on the internet- especially here- know what transsexual means.

I barely visit 4chan, and have only ever spent time on like, 3 boards. I think I spend like, 30 minutes a month there? My rough handling of you is because I'm pretty sick and tired of the sort of persecution complex and exaggerated emotional response I see amongst people that buy into the social justice crowd. People can't wear kid gloves all the time as if everyone's made of eggshells. That's not mentally or emotionally healthy, for anyone.

I don't want to talk to you privately about this, because it's still pretty related to your quests. They are, after all, tied into the subject of transsexuals, aren't they? You're really obviously injecting your personal beliefs into your quests- your characters often exhibit the same sort of exaggerated emotional response I'm getting from you right now.
>>
No. 78335 ID: 5ce288

>>78325
There is no such thing as an unbiased point of view when dealing with a work of fiction. The only way it's going to be unbiased is if it's some kind of peer reviewed observation of reality.

>Also, I kindof wanted you to admit the main reason you made the character transsexual was because you wanted to, not because of the vote. It seems really obvious that's why you did it, and it would've been better to leave out the choice altogether and just have the character be transsexual no matter what- then it would've been a twist, instead of a deception.

This is the problem with your posts. You didn't approach for a discussing, you had made a decision as to why I made a certain choice and you were trying to deceptively weasel it out of me, instead of just saying "Did you make Arin trans just out of personal preference?"

To which the answer is no, by the way. If I had gone by personal preference I just would have made Solwyn's partner a woman.

>My rough handling of you is because I'm pretty sick and tired of the sort of persecution complex and exaggerated emotional response I see amongst people that buy into the social justice crowd. People can't wear kid gloves all the time as if everyone's made of eggshells. That's not mentally or emotionally healthy, for anyone.

This is honestly not my problem, I've come to this discussion with a level head and continued to respond that way. You made a judgement about me, a person you don't remotely know, and decided to come with that judgement affecting all your decisions.

>I don't want to talk to you privately about this, because it's still pretty related to your quests.

Which is why I suggest going to my tumblr. Since it would be a public forum much better suited for your personal problems with me than a discussion thread about my quest.

>They are, after all, tied into the subject of transsexuals, aren't they?
No, not really.

SYQ's cast includes
A cisgender lesbian woman (protagonist).
A transgender pansexual woman, a cisgender bisexual crossdresser who's romantic interest has been a man, a cisgender bisexual woman who suffers from pedophilia, a <gender undisclosed> <sexuality undisclosed> child, a cisgender straight woman, and two cisgender straight men. (Supporting cast)

ALQ's cast included an alien who's gender norms are completely different, but she's still cisgender, a transgender man, and a person(?) that looks like an angel.

They both have trans characters in them, but they're not about transsexuals. SYQ is about cycles of abuse, and ALQ is about love.

>You're really obviously injecting your personal beliefs into your quests- your characters often exhibit the same sort of exaggerated emotional response I'm getting from you right now.

You will seldom see a work of fiction that isn't based off an authors personal beliefs, because their worldview will affect how they make imaginary worlds. That said, my work is not based on propagating my beliefs. And I take exception to you stating I'm exhibiting any type of exaggerated emotional response.
>>
No. 78338 ID: d315b1

This is not the place for these sorts of arguments. Take it to >>/meep/23975.
>>
No. 78353 ID: 6e85c8

>>78338

has the right idea. If either of you continue this conversation in this thread I'll ban you for a week.

You're both being fucking children at this point.
>>
No. 78354 ID: 7bbaae

>>78353
Yeah, okay, I admit I got way too sidetracked there.
>>
No. 78355 ID: 7bbaae

>>78354
Shit I should've saged shouldn't I. Oh well, too late now.
>>
No. 78380 ID: 5ce288

>>/quest/551424
You stayed because while everyone posted some really good questions, none of them were things Arin and Solwyn had the capacity to answer. All the information was in Iblis' lap.
>>
No. 78387 ID: fd6ae9

I was hoping they'd reach some kind of understanding by discussing those questions though, even if they didn't have answers. (Or sort of expecting an open ended discussion to lead to another vote).

Instead it feels like 'Wyn ignored the problem, or was afraid to face a situation that might hurt Arin. Which for all we know might be character for her (hard to say, since we haven't seen precedent for that kind of stuff) but wasn't what I was going for.

Ah well. Been a while time since we chose noncompliance anyways. :p And I suppose seeing what Iblis' does here will be pretty enlightening, assuming we survive. (And hopefully don't end up in another hell-pocket).
>>
No. 78392 ID: 882465

>>78380
I guess that's true.
I helped with the wall of questions, but I probably should have thrown more words at suggestions.

Nothing to do now but ride the storm out.
>>
No. 78429 ID: 5ce288

Thank you for the feedback.

>>/quest/551739
There are not clipping issues on the Magician by the way, that's supposed to read as a mane. (like a lion).

I figured I'd preemptively clarify.
>>
No. 78431 ID: 5ce288

I'm surprised so many people are complicit in letting all the vessels die just to make a point to Iblis.

I won't update until tomorrow most likely, because I want everyone who wants to share their opinion to have the chance to do so.
>>
No. 78434 ID: c6460b

I feel like there's no garuntee he's not going to toss them all at us anyhow, assuming we'll need to fight them...And Arin's religion cites him as being a Devil.
Plus his whole 'FEAR ME!' rant didn't help. And if he were to advise us, he'd probably do so more to his own ends, which he seems to have basically shown to be seperate from our own goals.
In short-he's both untrustworthy, and not giving us the cards to make a decision, at least not one he'd want us to make.
That said, if I had to choose one, I'd say Clarivoyant.
Simply can't trust this guy enough to do anything he wants him to.
>>
No. 78436 ID: 88960e

>>78431
Wait, you're saying if we condemn one, the other 5 get to live? Because I thought Iblis tried to justify killing one of them as okay since they were all dead anyways.

Also, I thought we were doing this because we don't trust it, we've seen it be wrong, and don't want to be used.
>>
No. 78438 ID: 5ce288

>>78436

> we don't trust it, we've seen it be wrong, and don't want to be used.
I feel like that's making a point.

As for the "live/die" scenario. I suppose I figured people would go more for prolonging one of the vessel's lived (Which is the implication of them only dying after Iblis is done with them) and getting their hands on abilities that could help them survive.

There's no wrong choice here, I just found the comments interesting.
>>
No. 78439 ID: 5ce288

>>78438
*lives
>>
No. 78440 ID: 88960e

Is that prolonging life, through? If they're possessed, they lack agency, and they may suffer the whole duration. Then they die. It's something else if they have some freedom, or the chance of survival.
>>
No. 78441 ID: 5ce288

>>78440
That's a good point.

My assumption had a different reasoning to it. There are lot of options in this situation.
>>
No. 78445 ID: fd6ae9

Well, the thing is, you're not making assumptions. You know how this will actually work, one way or the other. We're the ones guessing in the dark.

I'm not sure if we're running into a difference of perception here, or if you're trying to tell us there are advantages to or alternatives within plan-take-the-deal we haven't considered.

(Undiscussed, but there's also the matter of our Lover's reaction. How would Arin react to 'Wyn agreeing to this?).
>>
No. 78450 ID: 5ce288

>You know how the story will go.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IJustWriteTheThing
Not that I'm powerless, but you'd be surprised how often I am surprised by the results of the story

>How will Arin feel
A topic worth discussing.
>>
No. 78472 ID: 5ce288

>>78431
Update: Both quest will be updated on monday, due to having to detail more than expected. Apologies for the delay.
>>
No. 78525 ID: 10b54e

For what it's worth, as a trans woman, I appreciate your not assuming certain things as the default. In fact, I was rather pleased when I saw your treatment of certain subjects in SYQ. Likewise, I liked the unorthodox solution to the gender vote in this quest.

(And please don't take this as my addressing the argument that went on--I'm trying not to touch that. I just wanted to voice my happiness with your quests.)
>>
No. 78527 ID: 753914

...I have this increasingly bad feeling we screwed ourselves over by rejecting Iblis....But at the same time, it's like he'd have been a pain in the neck to work with anyhow, if not as bad as whatever's coming. That said...Is unreliable information worse than no information? I guess it all depends on what's coming, basically.
>>
No. 78528 ID: 5ce288

>>78525
I am pleased to hear the choices did not go over poorly with all my readers. Thank you for the feedback. Hopefully I'll be able to generate more universal positive feedback regarding character creation in my future quests.

>>78527
That was one of the foreseen consequences (lack of info) I assume. Since Iblis stated they would not give information without a vessel.
>>
No. 78575 ID: 293a2e

Hrrrm...
121
343
256
at least 6 characters noted in the language of the gods.
the halo's speech, assuming the language of the gods runs downwards like our own, goes clock-wise.

But most importantly, it's connected to the seer-such halos will likely be connected to those with magical beings.

Working theory on learning how to translate the language ourselves/sticking it to Iblis further.

>New post&avoiding double posting-
Iblis' game seems to be build up distrust and get people to kill each other, perhaps to send them to hell, where he is, so he has more victims to play with...
Which makes me wonder where the good guys are-SOMETHING is preventing him from just smiting down afflictions to everybody, though the criteria is something we don't know yet.
>>
No. 78580 ID: 5ce288

Oh my god, I am never using coloured text again. I swear, next time I start a quest, the coloured text is going. The formating is so hard.

>>78575
Good luck trying to decipher the halos. Hopefully more will show up soon. Though I'm not sure their meaning can be cracked with so little to work with.
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