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11228 No. 11228 ID: a107fd

So I've been working on designing a GURPS rule module for sex.

I am aware that such things already exist, but... I wanted something that actually lives up to the standards of official GURPS stuff. Simple, elegant math that meshes with the rest of the system to produce intuitively reasonable results. Someone who didn't know anything about hypothermia could easily apply the basic rules for exposure to cold environments, and similarly, somebody who doesn't know anything about the mechanics of human sexuality should be able to use my ruleset. The goal is not to compile a spreadsheet of dirty words and spaghetti code, but rather a gameable approximation of the day-to-day challenges of life in a "pornoverse."

I've got a beta version of the mechanics, but no specific scenario in mind. Who's interested in playtesting?
No. 11229 ID: 3009b4

I'd be interested as I've played with similar concepts. Sex is a rather complex activity equal parts physical, psychological and mental. The thing is, most people don't want actual realism in their sex any more than they want realism in their combat. They want pro-wrestling over anything resembling real wrestling, and theatrical martial arts over actual sparring.

Are you going to be creating a module for realism -- keeping in mind that a good portion of the audience will be ignorant about the actual mechanics of sexuality -- or for fantasy? GURPS tends to lean towards realism to a point.
No. 11230 ID: a107fd

My intention is to lean somewhat toward pornoverse physics, and not dwell overmuch on the grisly details. If somebody's trying to cook a meal, you'd just figure the quality of tools and ingredients they have available, how much time they have to work, and then roll for it, right? Knowing how to balance particular combinations of spices, and recognize the difference between carmelized and burnt, is covered by points in Cooking skill. Same principle here.

As a zero-point feature, the average person needs sex three times a day, and takes a lust point for every one they miss. Anyone with a healthy emotional range has a special Energy Reserve, which can be spent to activate psychic powers; lust and other persistent stressors count against this pool just like lack of food and water counts against physical fatigue. There's some comparable penalty when only 1/3 is left (reduced Perception? Easy to Read? Work in progress) and when it's below 0, all Awe, Confusion, and Fright checks are at a corresponding penalty, and may occur even in the absence of other stimuli, as a delayed reaction or irrational attempt to escape the stressor. In the case of lust, this might mean attempts to have sex with random bits of scenery.

Cost of living at Status -1 or better includes a cooperative spouse, friend-with-benefits, set of masturbation aids, or (at higher Status) prostitutes, to keep this under control. The 'low sex drive' and 'asexual' advantages function like Reduced Consumption and Doesn't Eat or Drink, respectively, and likewise for Increased Consumption. The Cast-Iron Stomach modifier becomes 'dirty slut,' representing ability to derive satisfaction from otherwise inadequate partners or degrading situations. The bonus from that applies to HT rolls related to groin injuries or childbirth, and offsets penalties to Erotic Art skill for rough play, improvised equipment, or distractions, though never to better than the basic equipment level.

There's also a new quirk, "gold star," which is basically Killjoy with a -80% mitigator such that it only applies in sexual situations with non-preferred genders, species, etc. Everyone else is assumed to be at least a little bit bi-curious, or more likely http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa305/secondgryphon/Sketches/SailorMoon/shadowjack-moon-amimako-02.jpg

Having satisfying sex is a DX-based task for the Erotic Art skill, modified by equipment quality, time spent, and... some other stuff.

For time spent, base time is 20 minutes. That means it's possible to get off in two minutes, but at -9, not likely. Something like http://oglaf.com/fingers/ would be at -10. The maximum +5 is for ten hours of nonstop fucking, but that's unlikely to happen often. Whenever the bonus for time spent increases effective skill above 14, roll for satisfaction immediately, and then you can keep going if stamina permits. If it's been at least two minutes since your last roll, you get one final satisfaction roll when you stop. For example, someone with skill 16 might be able to get their day's fix in a single 20-minute session: sixteen minutes of warmup followed by four orgasms two minutes apart, at effective skill 14, 15, 16, and 16 respectively.

For every minute of active participation in sex, roll vs. the higher of (HT+2) or Will-based Erotic Art skill. On a failure, lose one FP to physical exhaustion. Similar to the system for paced running.

Main tactical decision is how fast/hard to go, on a scale from -3 (soft gentle lovemaking) to +3 (brutally loud hatefuck). Roughness applies as a penalty to these rolls for stamina, but a bonus to the final DX-based roll for satisfaction. Failed self-control for Bad Temper or Bully shifts 1 point toward rough, 2 for Sadism or Stress Atavism. 4 for Berserk, while bondage shifts a max number of points toward gentle equal to twice the equipment bonus, minimum 1 with any useful amount of rope. All those can shift things beyond the usual limit of +/-3. Based loosely on the 'risk modifier' from Mass Combat.

Stamina is also influenced by reaction modifiers, altered as follows: Any modifier for quality of clothing or speech is halved (round down), any modifier for appearance or smell is doubled, and any modifier for relative Status is reversed.

Equipment modifiers apply to both stamina and satisfaction: -5 for 'no equipment' if the subject's primary erogenous zones are under non-flexible DR, or trying to masturbate with no manipulators. -2 for 'improvised equipment' if partner is only accessible through a narrow hole in a wall, trying to masturbate with something to grind against but no fine manipulators, or other uncomfortable circumstances. Basic equipment is privacy, lube, and something soft to lay on. Good equipment adds some actual purpose-built sex toys; Fine equipment is nicer toys and a Status 2+ bedroom (or equivalent specialized facility). Best equipment possible requires some way to appeal to all relevant fetishes, and, at TL 5+, a power supply for the toys.

Coordination/distraction penalties apply to the roll for satisfaction, but don't affect stamina:
When attempting to satisfy only yourself, a bonus equal to total accumulated lust. When attempting to satisfy a single other person without regard for your own needs, a bonus equal to half their total accumulated lust.
Otherwise, a penalty equal to the number of participants: -2 for self and a partner, etc. but success applies to all equally.
With a specific group (e.g. a married couple) this is treated as a familiarity, removed by four hours practice per point.
The group-size penalty for a specific position can be bought off as an average technique.
With a successful roll vs. Group Performance (orgy), which is related to Erotic Art the same way Group Performance (choreography) is related to Dance, the penalty is instead based on the size and speed/range table: 0 for two participants, -1 for three, -2 for four or five, -3 for six or seven, -4 for eight to ten, -5 for eleven to fifteen, etc.

For inter-species stuff or unusual positions, apply cultural familiarity or physiology modifiers, whichever would be worse. When attempting to satisfy someone with Xenophilia, the penalty becomes a bonus.
A further penalty equal to the greatest Size Modifier difference, unless the one penetrating is larger than the one being penetrated, in which case the penalty is tripled but can be reduced or negated by Flexible/Double-Jointed (reversed for satisfying appropriate fetishes). As with groups, particular combinations can be bought up as techniques. Size difference penalty is also reduced by smaller party's margin of success in a ST-based erotic art roll vs. larger party's relevant limb ST. For example, if an ST 32 beast's tentacles have the weak (1/4) modifier, the captured princess is only rolling vs. effective ST 8.

Does that all make sense? I've got some worked examples, but as part of the whole playtesting thing I'd rather have somebody else go through the math themselves rather than being caught in my own assumptions.
No. 11234 ID: 3009b4

Hmmm... at first breath it seems like you're already concentrating on the grisly details, but I realize this is as much a problem with GURPS (which does have pretty boggish combat).

I think you need to start off with the context of the pornoverse itself first. Nothing kills the mood like a lot of math, and while GURPS is very math-heavy (simple as the math is) it's also very much a story-driven game, and you're talking about a module before we have context against which to place it.

My question was asking if you were aiming towards realism or fantasy, and it sounds like you're trying to lean a bit more towards realism despite being in a 'pornoverse', so I think the first thing we need to discuss is what exactly makes up the setting of the pornoverse itself?
No. 11237 ID: a107fd

Alright, design principles of a pornoverse:

First, obviously, lots of sex happens. Most people want to be having sex just about as often as they're physically able to, and even those who don't are willing to play along.

This attitude, which would likely be considered addictive behavior in our world, is regarded as normal; nobody gets traumatized, the worst reaction is embarrassment or annoyance. People have interests and pursue activities other than (though seldom entirely unrelated to) sex.

My thinking with defining the mechanics first and the setting afterward was that, in a pornoverse, most social conflicts are rooted in the problem of how everyone involved is going to satisfy their respective libidos, the same way an agrarian society's conflicts revolve around who does the work and who eats the food.

The rules for orgies create a sort of Prisoner's Dilemma situation: cooperate, roll at a penalty, and help everyone get off? Or defect, and maybe benefit from everyone else's hard work? Bonus for defecting goes up the longer you've gone without, but then being greedy risks alienating a new partner, which could be a vicious cycle, until someone saintly enough (or more likely, who has a kink you perfectly satisfy) comes along.

As for the grisly details... I didn't spell out any mechanical differences between fisting vs. penis vs. tentacle, or oral vs. vaginal vs. anal, or sundry other limbs and orifices, natural or otherwise. There's nothing about specific positions, except that they can be defined later and then bought up as techniques to simplify group sex with strangers. There's only one new skill, which is an extrapolation of an existing set of skills. No lurid descriptions of new overpriced Advantages.
No. 11241 ID: dfc4c7

>My thinking with defining the mechanics first and the setting afterward was that, in a pornoverse, most social conflicts are rooted in the problem of how everyone involved is going to satisfy their respective libidos, the same way an agrarian society's conflicts revolve around who does the work and who eats the food.

That's the problem; GURPS is very story-oriented so you're better off defining the kind of storytelling you want to do first and then figure out the mechanics around it. For most other genres there's a fair amount of definition already done, but for even general genres like Super-Heroes I found that the GURPS Supers handbook was good for general work but even that was just a base for defining a more specific super-hero world.

Look at D&D vs. Warcraft; both basically ripping off of Tolkien but they each have their own spin on things. They're both generic fantasy-that-rips-off-Tolkien: humans, elves, dwarves, orcs, demons and dragons and they're all functionally fitting into the same roles and yet still different enough that anyone experienced in the genre will know which is which even if an outsider wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Even with something like generic fantasy, if you don't figure out the specifics of the story-telling there's going to be gaps in your mechanics, and it will be less obvious how to fill in those gaps when encountered.

Saying that there's going to be 'lots of sex' in the pornoverse is as helpful as saying 'there will be combat against monsters' when developing a fantasy setting or 'guns' in an FPS. The design for fun will be more important.

So perhaps we should be looking more into the 'Why' of sex beyond the primitive urge. If you look at the title picture used, the why in that example is a *relationship*. There's implications that the lady has a very high sex drive and that the man is dedicated to her, but he wouldn't be asking how to make her happy unless he was either very giving or very dedicated to her. There are romantic pornoverse settings where even when there's a lot of casual sex the plot is about if two characters will actually form a relationship, even if they include 3rd or 4th parties. For a TGChan example, there's Monster Humper where the final couple are dedicated to each other even if they still have casual sex; it's just that their casual sex is team-oriented.

In other pornoverse settings, it's a matter of simple conquest -- the focus isn't so much on the having but the getting, with the most difficult-to-obtain conquests being the most rewarding.

Others are darker and are more focused on domination. I don't like those so the less said the better.

Even in fetish-driven pornoverse settings (also apparently 'pornoverse' is a dictionary thing because my spell-checker not only accepts it but corrects my spelling of it, which is interesting) there's still a driving-force variant in it -- if the characters are motivated by romance, conquest, or domination. I think "Curiosity" could also be included in the mix -- less a matter of the challenge of bedding someone and more a matter of 'never done before'. In which case, the dividing line would be that Conquest is looking for the next challenge while Curiosity is looking for something untried.

And if we go along the lines of creating a pornoverse, parodying the D&D alignment system might work quite well -- the four driving forces replacing Good/Evil/Neutral and also allowing one to divide the world's forces accordingly. Actually if we also apply the roles of the bedroom, then we could turn Domination from a driving force into Role element. So our parody alignment system would be a combination of Romance/Primal/Conquest with Domination/Switch/Submissive (with "Primal" and "Switch" being "Neutral", except 'primal' is more descriptive of the motivation being pure sexual urges and 'switch' indicating that the person is perfectly comfortable playing either role).

I think what really makes the world gen based on motivations important is because otherwise the module might as well be used as an addition for including in porn-with-plot RPG adventures written to allow for sexual performance to be used as a problem-solver (the main villain gives up on the evil scheme because amazing sex).
No. 11243 ID: a107fd

The rules here aren't really meant to be OOC sexy, any more than the rules for tactical combat are meant to be OOC violent. http://www.leftoversoup.com/archive.php?num=416

Say you're trying to bribe somebody. You've got a pocketful of gold coins, a truckload of fresh fish, and 4 points in the Erotic Art skill with an optional specialty in blowjobs. Sex Appeal covers the flirting, but not satisfaction. http://www.alessonislearned.com/index.php?comic=28 Existing rules in the core book, GURPS Social Engineering, and other supplements can give you some basis to figure out the relative value of gold vs. fish, and suitability as a bribe. If there were some way to estimate the value of sexual services, that third option would slot right in to the existing system and you'd be able to make an informed decision what to offer. But there isn't, so you can't.

>Saying that there's going to be 'lots of sex' in the pornoverse is as helpful as saying 'there will be combat against monsters' when developing a fantasy setting or 'guns' in an FPS. The design for fun will be more important.

If I was designing a fantasy RPG with the intention that combat against monsters would be a significant element, and then in the first playtest session somebody said something like "I shoot the orc with my bow, does it hit?" and none of the rules covered that situation at all, the fun would come to a screeching halt. Have you read the rules for the Erotic Art skill in the Basic Set? There's a note that the skill exists, some vague discussion of which attributes it might be based on, and everything else is left to the GM's discretion. That's it! Nothing else, no modifiers except the bonus from Flexibility/Double-Jointed.

Before you can calculate the difference between being punched by a toddler, Bruce Lee, and Superman, somebody has to to work out general mechanics for hand-to-hand combat. Superpowers and cinematic martial arts techniques and so on plug in to that basic framework, shifting the genre accordingly.
No. 11248 ID: 4dc2d2

You know that 0-point feature is way beyond what is reasonable for the average person.

Maybe if that was for an adolescent age group, but the average adult can go much longer without gaining "lust points".
No. 11250 ID: a107fd

My thinking was that it makes the math simpler, since food and water are also 3/day, and the average 'pornoverse' character behaves like a horny teenager regardless of nominal demographic. The sex-drive equivalent of the Reduced Consumption advantage would be reasonably cheap, and could be increased over time as a learnable advantage.

Also, thank you very much for that clear and concise criticism focused on the actual mechanics!
No. 11471 ID: 5694dc

I'm not sure if it's a lack of in depth knowledge of the gurps rules, but I'm having trouble parsing the information on the basics here. The only thing I can think of that I didn't see immediately outlined was proximity rules, but being easily confused I may have just missed them. Assuming I didn't though, I would wonder if you might want to build off the list system and include an environmental system. Much like food and water are not nessicary 3 times a day, but with you're not getting that much you're likely to suffer in other areas, being in an environment that's "too hot" or "too cold" is also detrimental. Maybe an accelerated accumulation of lust points based on proximity to sexy stuff?

Assuming that sex is a standard like food and water, other stuff still goes on in the world- there's societies, war, class strife, jobs, etc, and there's just more sex than average, then sex is a resource that is distributed unevenly based on who has power. Under this assumption, there would be institutions enforcing the inequality so that those in power are more likely to continue to benifit, and face reduced risk of loosing their privledges. In most systems there is a casual nod towards poverty and resource inequality- poor/rich people are present, usually easy enough to spot, and there's perks/quirks that determine where play characters fall on this spectrum. I would also be curious as to how that falls under this system. Are sex-restricted people likely to continue to be sex-restricted for the majority of their lives? Are there Traits with fixed point values that represent how a player falls on this spectrum?

Overall, it seems like you've covered the basics for most normal skill checks in a D&D game- how hard is this to accomish? How good am I at doing this kind of thing? What kind of tools do I have? Are there factors making it more difficult or making it easier? But because I'm having throuble sort of understanding the proposed system overall it's difficult for me to assess if it's robust enough to stand up as it's own kind of game.
No. 11472 ID: d36af7

>accelerated accumulation of lust points based on proximity to sexy stuff
Fetishes could use the phobia mechanics, but rolling on the 'awe' rather than 'fright' table, and with a note that any failed check also adds a lust point, same way failed fright checks reduce how long an oxygen tank lasts. Tack a similar mechanic onto the Sex Appeal skill.

>Are sex-restricted people likely to continue to be sex-restricted for the majority of their lives?
Amusing factor there is the training time mechanics. If somebody's really bad at sex, or lacks adequate equipment, the way the probability curve for stamina goes, it's possible for them to stay at a relatively low equilibrium level of lust if they're willing to go slow and steady (maybe with bondage, which, yes, IS possible to do solo) and spend several hours a day masturbating. All that practice soon adds up to more points in the skill.

Somebody who's had an easier time of it from the outset can get by without much actual skill, trading off stamina for satisfaction bonuses from rough play, maybe 'jerkish' mental disadvantages to push that further. Not much time in practice, not many points in the core skill. If they ever loose access to those bonuses, say if the Status 2 (or higher) dom with Bad Temper and/or Sadism gets outwitted, captured, and kept as a Status -2 slave or pet. maybe even including a stainless steel chastity belt? Stamina plummets, since those bonuses from equipment and relative status have become penalties, so now if they tried to keep lust at a tolerable level they'd be passing out from exhaustion before satisfaction was a realistic possibility. Someone thus humbled would have good reason to beg and plead to be tied up in an elaborate restraint harness, so as to offset their compulsion toward roughness and, longer term, allow the training time necessary to build up real skill.

Someone who's just plain ugly or smelly is probably going to have a lot of trouble finding partners (which is why those are disadvantages) but anything might be somebody somewhere's fetish. Even without finding some 'chaser,' some horny munchkin will eventually buy the Dirty Slut advantage, and offset the cost by also taking No Sense of Smell as a disadvantage, thus doubly ignoring stench-based reaction and stamina penalties.
No. 11473 ID: e16686

>Training time mechanics
These make a lot of sense, but I think that there's got to be a flaw in the system if people who have sex less get better at it than people who have it more; Perhaps you disagree, or perhaps that's not what you meant, but it seemed like that's how the mechanics could work based on your description of them.

Personally, it seems to me like training in a specific skill should outpace generally applicable training; that is to say, it's easier to get skill points than it is to improve your ability modifiers. Someone who masturbates regularly but doesn't have reliable access to sex would probably increase their stamina and maybe some other broadly applicable bonuses, but shouldn't they suffer skill wise overall compared to someone who has sex 3 times a day every day? From my individual experiences, there's a bit of a cognitive disconnect with the idea of the individual who has little sex but masturbates a lot being better at sex than the individual who gets regularl practice every day, several times throughout the day. Am I missing something in the mechanics?
No. 11474 ID: d36af7

Training time is just basic GURPS rules. 200 hours of training => 1 character point in the skill. Intensive training (with expensive specialized equipment and a highly skilled tutor) counts as double time, regular instruction from someone competent is the default, self-directed study counts as half, and on-the-job practice counts as quarter time.

Somebody who was only masturbating, and doing so as efficiently as possible rather than seeking out new techniques and challenges, would likely be learning at on-the-job rates and taking an optional specialty for the skill, meaning uses outside the specialty would be at a penalty.

If someone's spending the same number of hours per day on sex, but in more varied ways, facing difficulty, or better yet receiving instructions from someone who knows how to do it at least as well as them, yes, that's going to improve the skill more broadly and more quickly.
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