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File 127433055785.png - (31.42KB , 600x400 , Let me explain.png )
15880 No. 15880 ID: 3441fa

http://tgchan.org/wiki/Advice_for_Running_a_Quest

Because some people seem to need it.

Anyone is welcome to post more info on here. It only has a bit of advice concerning engaging the suggester right now. I know there is a lot more that can be said.
Expand all images
>>
No. 15882 ID: 7b5606

I might need to finally make a wiki account for this.

...

...does our wiki even need an account for editing it?
>>
No. 15884 ID: 81355b

>>325682
Nope. Just need one when uploading images.
>>
No. 15887 ID: 3416ec

A rule of thumb I follow is thus:

Only start a quest if you know how you're going to end it.

That way, you have a goal to work towards, and it helps avoid quitting it before you finish it.
>>
No. 15890 ID: 3441fa

>>325687
That is a solid rule of thumb.
>>
No. 16059 ID: cb3a34

I'm not someone to just change an article. I'm not known here. I would rather give you my ideas for improvement, and let you decide if it's right or not.
In this advice article, I feel it needs to be said, so I'll let you decide where and when.

"The first thing you need to know about a quest is that it isn't something you tell to others. It's cooperative story telling. You may be laying the groundwork for the story, but it's the observers that influence how it goes. How much you let them have a say is up to you, but without any, you will not be doing a quest, but writing a story."

Thanks for your time.
>>
No. 16062 ID: 242766

>>325859
This is both very important and surprisingly easy to overlook.
>>
No. 16371 ID: bde1b8

Stickying this so this thread is not simply re-made again just because people forgot/never knew it existed.
>>
No. 16379 ID: 67c611

Links to older threads in the OP title image make browsing so much easier.
like this http://www.tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/160101.html#160101
Otherwise I have to go into the wiki and search the previous threads down. Simple thing that makes reading the quest easier and more enjoyable.

Also a link to the /questdis/ thread in the op would help too.

The author should set up guidelines for what goes in /quest/ and what goes in /questdis/. A good one to start with would be:
All suggested actions go in /quest/. All reasoning, counterpoints, questions to other players, or non-suggestions go in /questdis/. Backlinks from a suggestion post to the reasoning behind it that is in the /questdis/ thread keeps the /quest/ thread very clean and clutter free. No walls of text in between updates.

To put a backlink to another board, click the backlink in thread A to put it in the message field. It should look like this ">>123456". Then take that and insert the target board, /draw/ /general/ /quest/ /questdis/ /tg/ to make it look like this >>/target board/123456 . Then cut/paste that into the message field in board B. This will create a backlink to the post on board A.

An unrelated tip is to copy a long message you are about to send in case tgchan rejects it for some reason and it was cleared out of the message field when you hit the back button. *copies*
>>
No. 16660 ID: 8bdb6a

Let's try to be careful about what we add to the article. It's already pretty long, and it doesn't need extra paragraphs that aren't actually advice.
>>
No. 16709 ID: c5296f

Might be a good idea to toss some basic tutorial stuff in there too, ideally on a separate page. Here's how to snazzily quote suggestion posts. Here's how you properly link to other threads (particularly of the discussion and other chapters flavors). Here's the post limit you need to keep an eye out for when you're going to need to start another of yon chapters. Need to edit that post you just made? Etc. etc.
>>
No. 17047 ID: 1ac39d

put a link to this on it
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Plot
>>
No. 17956 ID: 6bf637

A question to the quest authors out there. What resource do you use to draw for your quests?
>>
No. 17976 ID: 997545

>>327756
Personally, I use good ol' MSPaint and a tablet. It's simple, yet versatile in its simplicity. I've toyed with the thought of putting an MSPaint tutorial on the wiki.

(My art sucks because I'm lazy, not because of the program I use.)
>>
No. 18016 ID: e973f4

>>327756
I use Illustrator.

... to the extent that you can call it using Illustrator, with how infrequently I update. :<
>>
No. 18030 ID: f95872

>>327756
On those few occasions when I have briefly ran a quest, I have used MSPaint and Fireworks.
>>
No. 18168 ID: becad2

Handle With Care is done in Photoshop; single illustrations too. Dungeon Game is done in Illustrator, a tool that proved to be quite suitable for questing. Once you learn how to handle it, naturally.
>>
No. 18176 ID: f98e0b

All my quests are done with a fully legal probably copy of Photoshop CS4.
>>
No. 18199 ID: d560d6
File 127724487788.gif - (84.08KB , 640x480 , tool-used.gif )
18199

>>327756
I absolutely swear by Flash 2 as a tool that got vector editing right with its clever CSG-like brush shenanigans.

I used to use it with tweaked lines and fills, especially before the tablet, but these days I find it a lot faster to just make everything out of brushes, even if the lines aren't as steady.
>>
No. 18228 ID: f21281

Sai Painter 1.1.0
>>
No. 18229 ID: 3416ec

I use GIMP.

But I don't recommend it, as it takes a while to get used to it.
>>
No. 18237 ID: 7ecfef

I'm concerned about railroading players. But I have no interest in running an ultra-vague setting or amnesiac / schizophrenic protagonist. I feel as though I'll still be accused of railroading if I tried a "choose-you-own-adventure" style that details or outlines possible choices. I also feel as though I can't really control anything, which of course means that building satisfying characters and arcs becomes sort of moot. Thoughts?
>>
No. 18351 ID: a594b9

>>328037
It's only railroading if you ignore the majority of suggestions. Even then often players won't mind a bit of railroading if they get what they want to happen done anyway.
>>
No. 19745 ID: a594b9

Here's a tip: Don't make your first post an OOC explanation of the plot or that you're new or something. Let your quest speak for itself. The more OOC stuff you put in, the less immersive it is.
>>
No. 20083 ID: 482f1b

Focus on world building, giving the players something to do. As long as the quest maintains it's own internal logic and doesn't devolve into a nonsense quest, you're set.
>>
No. 20862 ID: 996206

Is it possible to create a text-only Quest, or are these generally very poorly received?
>>
No. 20874 ID: 732129

>>330662

There are some malcontents who don't like them, but some of the best quests are mainly text quests. GolemQuest, in particular, comes to mind as being an excellent example of a successful, well-received, well-written text quest. As long as the writing is good, the story fun, and the quest engaging, IMO it'd be fine.
>>
No. 20945 ID: f35afd

>>330662
I think the above poster slightly misrepresents the issue. Text/not text is a fairly contentious debate in our community, and a text quest turns off a fair number of readers.

You will get readers that will enjoy your quest, assuming it's good, and they will be pretty loyal, but you will generally have less readers than with a drawn quest (depending. I mean, some drawn quests get almost no readers).

People who spend a lot of time doing the art for their quests will also generally not read text quests.

Golem quest is a pretty good example of a popular text quest and seems to one of the better quests on the board. I don't know about this "some of the best quests are mainly text" business.
>>
No. 21033 ID: e31d52

>>330674
Only a very small minority of text quests are really incredible. Text quests take a lot more effort to reach the same level as an arted one, hence why I want to finish Gearheads ASAP.
>>
No. 21034 ID: 3416ec

>>330662

Some of us have too short of an attention span to read text quests (myself included).
>>
No. 21124 ID: d560d6

Getting back on topic, for those of you who run long-running quests, how heavily do you plan ahead, and how much do you ad-lib? For something like Tozol, the players have enough agency that I'm guessing Test is running it pure tabletop RPG style and "just" simulating an environment which is ticking along to Marcus' schedule to some kind of inevitable ending; something with a more directed and segmented narrative like Journey, however, seems to have been largely determined in advance---that Lucid had planned out the high-level sequence of events before posting the first thread. Dive seems somewhere in-between; it gives the impression that some of the chapters have been impulsive additions rather than intended from the start, like #21, but then each chapter itself is more of a tightly self-contained mini-quest that most because of time and perspective skips between them.
>>
No. 21209 ID: f202ec

I think Steven Brust (author of the Vlad Taltos series) has a theory that works for quests.

"The Cool Stuff Theory of Literature is as follows: All literature consists of whatever the writer thinks is cool. The reader will like the book (quest) to the degree that he agrees with the writer about what's cool. And that works all the way from the external trappings to the level of metaphor, subtext, and the way one uses words. In other words, I happen not to think that full-plate armor and great big honking greatswords are cool. I don't like 'em. I like cloaks and rapiers. So I write stories with a lot of cloaks and rapiers in 'em, 'cause that's cool. Guys who like military hardware, who think advanced military hardware is cool, are not gonna jump all over my books, because they have other ideas about what's cool.
The novel should be understood as a structure built to accommodate the greatest possible amount of cool stuff."

Corollary: This works in both directions. For best results, suggest things that the author will think is cool.
>>
No. 21213 ID: f35afd

>>330924 I will assume my quest is 'sufficiently long running' and answer for anyone who cares:

It seems like you are conflating different sorts of planning aheads: For BiteQuest, I started with the main character, map, metaphysics of the world, personalities, abilities and statistics for the wizards as well as the timelines for their schemes, the non-wizard antagonists (Heartsbane and Ashleigh), and "girlfriend" rescuable characters.

I planned the sequence of events that would happen in the world if no player input occurred at all. I then planned little scenes that would occur in certain places if the players went there. (the blood cottage, a few more that have been avoided, Ovriur, the subsequent towns that were eaten if he wasn't dealt with, fatasaurus rex) I never really planned a narrative flow or anything like that - I let the player encounter the scene without any sort of predetermined outcome and extrapolated events accordingly as the player made the timeline deviate more and more from the base, "no Spikesby" timeline. So, I planned extensively, but I didn't plan like you're saying Journey was planned, with some events and narrative twists predestined to occur.

Heartsbane, for instance, was originally intended to be an antagonist that would repeatedly appear to mock Spikesby for the futility of his actions and his deviation from the purpose for which he was created. I never expected the players to attempt to recruit him for a suicidal attack plan in defiance of the Wizard he serves - which is exactly the sort of thing he would go for. So, all of the subsequent Heartsbane scenes got pretty much entirely nixed.
>>
No. 21214 ID: d560d6

>>331013
That sounds like what I was hypothesising for Tozol; when I say "inevitable ending", I don't mean that there's only one possible outcome (choo choo), just that a clock is ticking (Marcus' actions, Q5 reinforcements or nuke-from-orbit) which means the world state will progress toward a narrative end point regardless of what the players do.
>>
No. 22138 ID: 9f6193

I have tried to start quests in the past, but find myself unable to attract readers after a day or two, which is frustrating and, since I feel like my brittle husk of a thread is unwanted I'll just delete it to keep the board clear.

I've considered that part of my difficulty comes from my preference to focus on characters in comparatively mundane circumstances. Still 'genre' circumstances, but never the featureless void / magical tea party that I see a lot of quest writers doing.

I've tried cold-opens with the intention of building things up, and hot opens into action sequences. But the responses I get don't seem to give much 'interaction' with anything, and tend to just be a response of "next..."

I've read the wiki article; but can any writers or readers suggest how they grab and keep readers?
>>
No. 22140 ID: d677cc

>>331938
This is a hard question. Personally I seem to have gotten readers in my early quests because I was one of the only games in town and in my later quests because they were ridiculous/I spent a month talking about how I wanted to do it on IRC.

It would help, perhaps, if I knew more about the quests in question. I mean, if they were text quests, that's going to turn away a good bit of your potential readerbase away automatically and probably cause the entirety of the remainder to be somewhat skeptical.

Also, if you're not already an established author, you're going to usually get significantly fewer posts than quests by established authors unless you have really nice art or an extremely unique concept. You will probably go through a period of time after the novelty of a "new quest" goes away and before you garner something of a readerbase where the quest is being kept alive by as little as one suggestion between updates; you'll need to hold steady here if you want the quest to have any long-term viability.
>>
No. 22149 ID: d560d6

>>331938
>I've considered that part of my difficulty comes from my preference to focus on characters in comparatively mundane circumstances.
I certainly noticed that Drawfag Quest picked up a lot once it went from apparently-mundane object hunt to thwarting an evil scheme. Although, strictly, it'd be more accurate to say that suggestions badly dropped off as the mundane part dragged on with ladder-hunting after some initial enthusiasm. There was a bit of a lull before confronting Greentechmarine, too, which was a bit unexpected. It didn't help that I started responding to suggestions laying out a plan and then that person and others changed the plan, so for a moment progress was thwarted. (This is really horribly common because the time dilation effect of quests murders everyone's attention span. Even batch updaters like Weaver aren't entirely immune since anything depending on a prior update session is subject to lossage.)

>I'll just delete it to keep the board clear.
Well, don't do that. If it's really hated it'll fall onto lower pages and eventually the graveyard anyway.
>>
No. 22153 ID: 932552
File 128248685665.png - (3.56KB , 59x99 , kitty.png )
22153

>>331940
I would agree. KaraQuest squeaked by with one or two suggestions a post at first. It was only much later when things began getting all crazy that I actually started getting a good amount of responses. The important thing is to not get discouraged.
You're new. People don't really know what to think about you. Keep plugging away and rolling with the punches and eventually you'll develop fans.

If there's only one suggestion, go with it. Unless it's a really bad suggestion, in which case you can still respond to it - preferably with the character themselves explaining why it's bad, but it's not required. If you have no suggestions at all, go down a quick list of what might be wrong: Is there no obvious suggestion? Try prompting people with a list of possible options and character thoughts. Is the next suggestion too obvious with nothing much else to do? Just go ahead and keep posting reactions until you get to the next decision point - people would usually rather watch a cutscene than get pulled around on a leash.

But the most important thing is not to get discouraged. A lot of people go through this rough patch until they find their identity, even if that takes awhile. Don't give up!
>>
No. 22155 ID: 117dce

>>331938
What the above have said is right. It also depends on when you're updating and how often you drew updates.

I mean, I was an established author but some of the Cromanticar chapters had me sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for someone to suggest something. Same with Karen's Heart, same with some of the Bite Quest chapters. I mean, go look. There are whole sessions where it's just been me and one guy. If you keep at it, more people will see it. Besides, some people are always reading and not playing, but if you kept going they'd probably start. If I knew which quests were yours I could possibly offer you more direct advice.
>>
No. 22236 ID: e31d52

>>331938
Mainly patience and interesting things to play with. Many suggesters enjoy a creation sequence, and if you use that to exposit the world, even better. experimentation, too. But as bitequest said, even the best sometimes have to sit and play with one dude. Don't give up!
>>
No. 23290 ID: f03d2b

Running a one-on-one Quest for a pal via e-mail: bad idea or worst idea?

Has anyone tried something like this before?
>>
No. 23306 ID: d677cc

>>333090
At that point it's probably indistinct from just like RP or something, is the thing.

Could certainly still work!
>>
No. 23333 ID: f03d2b

>>333106
Well, it'd still be an image-based pseudo-adventure-game -- just with only one suggester.

I was thinking of opening it up to a few more people, but most of my friends probably wouldn't be able to get into the right mindset.
>>
No. 23462 ID: ddd48d

>>333090
>>333133
I've done something similar before with friends, but just to pass the time, not for a long term game. sounds interesting, do it. I mean, if it doesn't work then at least you'll know. Depending on your friends, may want to add a lot of humor they will enjoy, since its a one-on-one.
>>
No. 26144 ID: a10913

I'm looking to pick up a Graphic Tablet(thingit) sometime soon, and I'm wondering what you guys use.

Any suggestions for good tablets for quest-mspaint-art or general doodles?
>>
No. 26145 ID: 3416ec

>>335944

I use a Wacom Bamboo. I got it for $70 at Best Buy. It hasn't let me down.

http://www.wacom.com/bamboo/bamboo_pen.php
>>
No. 26146 ID: 93e8e3

>>335944
Wacom is the best brand to get. They're the only ones that seem to care about product durability.

Bamboos are the cheapest, and pretty reliable, albeit generally small. If your blood is a bit more rich, I hear good things about the Wacom Intuos line, but most of it seems to be extra bells and whistles. I use a Bamboo and it serves me very well.
>>
No. 26154 ID: 2563d4

Another vote for the Bamboo. Great little tablet.

Be careful: the Bamboo Fun is a different product. Last I knew it cost more and came bundled with some useless crapware.
>>
No. 26162 ID: e0f1fa

I didn't think the Intuos was that much more expensive than the Bamboo, and it's a better product. I love mine.
>>
No. 26197 ID: a09a03

A small Intuos costs around three times as much as a small Bamboo, which is what I have. Can't say I'm thrilled, since it's god damn tiny, but it beats the hell out of a mouse.
>>
No. 26220 ID: e61902

My small intuos was ~120 bux and had a significantly larger drawing area than the small bamboos I saw.
>>
No. 26227 ID: a09a03

Cheapest Intuos4 is 230 USD for 6.2" x 3.9"
Cheapest Bamboo is 70 for 5.8" x 3.6"

'Course, these are what's available now. The Bamboo I use is a discontinued model. Basically the same price and active area, though.
>>
No. 26231 ID: 2563d4

>>335954
For what it's worth, the exact model of mine is a MTE-450A, and I think it was all of £50; seems to have held around that point in the UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wacom-Bamboo-MTE-450-K-DE/dp/B000QUQDXM
>>
No. 27598 ID: ab04d4

I haven't really had much experience running quests, but I've been thinking about the readership and how it related to the quest genre.

From my experience, basically there's two axes of quest success- Idealism and Complexity. In fact I think we can make this an alignment system for all quests- Idealism, Neutral, or Realism versus Simple, Neutral, or Complex.

Complex quests are like Golem Quest, where you have to remember every detail, and where the player comes up with all the stuff. Conversely, quests like, oh, say, Sandwich Quest are the epitomization of simple.

And on the sliding scale of idealism versus realism, well, I guess you already know what's going on. Here, it mostly applies to characterization, so I suppose all those cute anthro quests with lovable protagonists fall on the Ideal side whereas quests with grittier, more hardcore-dark bits fall on the Realist side.

Quests change, of course- but that by itself doesn't really lend itself to making better quests.

The problem is, the two axes really tend to counteract each other. In other words, a quest either tends to focus on the crunch of complex combat and hardcore logistics, like Golem Quest, or it appeals to those who want a daily serving of cute and happy, light fluffy quest, like for example Trap Quest, or Amorphia. You really can't have both in equal amounts at the same time- you can flip between the two with wellmade transitions but you're either focusing on one or the other. Even quests that work both in equally, like most of Shot's quests, flip between the two axes in attracting readers between fight scenes and non-fight scenes. Same with Brom's quests, or anybody else's quests. Really, it's kind of an axiom of writing itself- you can't be developing character and running a hardcore battle at the same time, I guess.

That's basically the entire quest spectrum right there, in my vastly uneducated and probably simplified opinion.

Does this even go here? This is basically my personal theory behind all quests, and I'm not even sure if it's correct.
>>
No. 27606 ID: 2563d4

>>337398
>In fact I think we can make this an alignment system for all quests
Wow. That's the worst idea I've heard all month.
>>
No. 27649 ID: bf1e7e

>>337398

>Here, it mostly applies to characterization, so I suppose all those cute anthro quests with lovable protagonists fall on the Ideal side whereas quests with grittier, more hardcore-dark bits fall on the Realist side.

That has nothing to do with idealism or realism. That just has to do with cute or dark. Those are not even remotely the same thing.

>Really, it's kind of an axiom of writing itself- you can't be developing character and running a hardcore battle at the same time, I guess.

You most certainly can, it just requires actual writing ability.
>>
No. 27693 ID: 2d8aa8

>>337414
>>
No. 27718 ID: f123de

>>337493
The advice parts were good.
I really hope the examples given were tongue-in-cheek because that is some of the worst Raymond Chandler-wannabe writing I've ever read, and I've read Jim Butcher and Glen Cook.
>>
No. 27726 ID: 5c4ccf

>>337518
I agree. The basic principles the guys is trying to get across are good, but the style in which the guide is written is junk. You can tell he's a very weak writer.
>>
No. 30470 ID: 15b51b

How to OP:
1) Make sure your image will produce a thumbnail that is immediately recognizable. The most reliable way to do this is to have your quest name in big letters.
2) Put your quest name and chapter as the Subject. That way we can ctrl-f it.
3) Use your handle for the 'name' field unless there is a good reason not to. Even if you want to use the character's name for the rest, using your own name for the opening post can help clear things up.
4) Remember that the OP will be visible for the lifetime of the thread and beyond. If you use '???' for the name or title, remember that it will still say '???' a year from now when someone finds it in the archive.
>>
No. 31015 ID: dad664

http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html
>>
No. 31291 ID: 1a72cc

In being a poor example of a quest author, I've learned the following. If you don't have a lot of self-motivation, stick to one quest. If you have more than one quest, your sparse updates would be spread across all your quests, slowing all of them down.

If you get an awesome idea that you absolutely have to do, write it down. Then, when you reach a chapter end or something, you can do the idea. It may be frustrating to have a huge pile of ideas you're sitting on, but that's better than a million dead or half-dead quests. It would also give you time to expand upon those ideas before you share them with the world. Alternatively, you might realize in hindsight just how dumb an idea actually is before putting it out there.

If nothing else, having only one currently updating quest eliminates the question of 'which one do I update?' letting you skip to 'how should I do this update?' which can be a task in itself for non-motivated people. It is for me, at least.

I still haven't figured out the 'how to make yourself do it' bit myself yet, so I can't help out there. Hopefully, this little bit of advice helps someone, though. I probably could have used it earlier.
>>
No. 31304 ID: a50866

>>341091
Seconding everything said here. Coming from a guy with a dozen half dead threads, yeah, stick to one, even if you have more ideas.
>>
No. 31337 ID: f7aa74

>>341104

i see, so we need more commitment... hey, maybe with this tip, i can stop being a troll-fag :D
>>
No. 31523 ID: 007486

I'm not sure if this is really the place to ask, but: Does tgchan block you from reposting the same image multiple times? I've been giving some thought to doing a text-based quest using pictures of the various characters to mark who's 'in control', but like I know 4chan bitches you out for repeating images.
>>
No. 31530 ID: bf1e7e

>>341323

yeah, it does.
>>
No. 31594 ID: 2563d4

>>341323
You can use the same talking head over and over, though, which might suit your purposes: >>/meep/13334

It's also a convention to put an @ or something in the subject line so that updates can be more clearly picked out from suggestions.
>>
No. 31604 ID: 749219

>>335954
I use a Bamboo Fun and I like it. That comes from a person who was forced to use a Trust for a long time. That one was absolutely horrible.

I'm actually using a Bamboo Fun with a broken stylus. I was lucky I used SAI to draw the first panels of Executioner, because I'm drawing with the eraser.

About quests, I'm not experient with them, but I already learned some useful stuff about writing.
>>
No. 31652 ID: f7aa74

>>341404

( =c=)9 just keep at the quest thing, you'll get better, i believe in you
>>
No. 32120 ID: 007486

Okay, so I'm thinking about running a writequest, but I'm having a really hard time deciding on perspective. The current idea is to have one 'main' character that's largely a blank slate until defined by the readers; narration would be in the form of 'you see x, you do x,' and so on. However, when switching to the perspective of another character, narration would switch to 'I see x, I do x'. Is this a good or bad idea? What are people's thoughts in general on perspective?
>>
No. 32149 ID: 36cfc5

>>341920
Sounds somewhat interesting. I don't think you need to worry about people being like "Why does the perspective keep changing? FUCK THIS" and then stop reading or anything.

...But by writequest, do you mean a textquest? please no
>>
No. 32193 ID: 007486

>>341949
The plan is to do text without images, if that's what you mean. Are text quests really looked down on that much?

Honestly, I'm just trying to play to my strengths; I've been doing various creative writing stuff since forever, but I can't draw for shit.
>>
No. 32230 ID: 75d7a9

>>341993
ANY drawing helps. just a map or something. ESPECIALLY on the first post. it makes the whole thread more eye catching which draws more readers.
>>
No. 32235 ID: 252e1b

>>342030

Read: the most vocal elements of this board have the attention span of small children, and will rail endlessly against anything that takes more than a couple of minutes to read.

There are about 12 long-term quests going on, three of them are text only, both of the most popular text only quests have about ten regular players, with the third having maybe five regular players. Seven of the other quests are a combination of shitty art and/or crappy writing, and have six or seven players each (almost all the same players). The remaining two long-term quests have pretty decent art and writing and have ten or so regular contributors.

Everything else on the board is crappy one shots (designed to be crap, apparently), or ideas that are aborted when the author realizes just how small the audience is here.

So in short: do what you want, fuck the whiners. There are not enough of them to count for anything, and they know it.
>>
No. 32237 ID: 8c0848

>>342035
Quit it.
>>
No. 32240 ID: d677cc

>>341993
You can try a text quest if you want. Just be aware that you're likely to get less attention than quests with art.
>>
No. 32247 ID: bf1e7e

>>342035

>There are about 12 long-term quests going on, three of them are text only, both of the most popular text only quests have about ten regular players, with the third having maybe five regular players.

I like how you go out of your way to harass the image quests for having shitty art and/or writing, while conveniently skipping on mentioning that all but one text quest have just as shitty writing (at best) and no art at all.

>Everything else on the board is crappy one shots (designed to be crap, apparently)

a crappy one-shot is superior to millions of words of prose shittier than you'll find on Fanfiction.net.

Why do image quests make you so angry? Were you molested by someone putting forward a modicum of effort?
>>
No. 32249 ID: 2563d4

Better question: why are people derailing the advice thread with this shit when there's a perfectly good thread for text vs image quest arguments over here? >>/meep/13522
>>
No. 32254 ID: 8c0848

>>342049
Good question. The best I can figure, he's being extremely hostile to image quests because he wants to run a quest, but can't draw and is justifying why he himself should run a text quest instead. This is pretty hilarious since he has demonstrated that he can't write for shit either. Hilarity should ensue.
>>
No. 32303 ID: 8843e6

>>342040
If you want an actual audience 4chan.org/tg has more people, and janitors that are friendly to everything but furry porn. If you want to run a furry porn quest I guess this is the place.
>>
No. 32306 ID: e3f578

>>342047
Hey man, I know it's been a while but Blood Quest was also the other good text quest on this board, not just Sammy. So you've got like two. Still text quests are kinda shit man, writers fuck up the purple prose so often, what's actually fucking happening gets lost in metaphors and bullshit and the audience can't fucking react properly.
>>
No. 32318 ID: 8e18cd

>>342103

> janitors that are friendly to everything but furry porn

:goincrazy:
>>
No. 32321 ID: 15b51b

>>342103
Unless you can do a drawing in like 60 seconds like Weaver, doing an image quest on 4chan is problematic.

Plus the obligatory trolling, spam, bullshit, etc.

But hey, if you can manage it, go for it.
>>
No. 32351 ID: 07416a

>>342121
...Yeah, you haven't been back there in a while, have you?
>>
No. 32353 ID: 15b51b

>>342151
I must not have come back at the right times, because I've only seen text quests.
>>
No. 32371 ID: 07416a

>>342153
That's cuz all the image quest authors left to tgchan. Quests are officially protected now, though. Hatin and spamming gets ya banned.
>>
No. 32380 ID: 15b51b

>>342171
Atlas Hugged
>>
No. 32399 ID: d677cc

>>342171
This doesn't really alleviate the problem of "if I can't run in session format I can't run on /tg/."
>>
No. 32806 ID: 07416a

>>342199
Yes, there's that.
>>
No. 35678 ID: 0c9433

So umm...I want to do a Quest but I can only writefag. And I want some of the attention of doing it on normal /tg/ if I do.
>>
No. 35680 ID: 3f91df

>>345478
And I want free money forever and a house that doubles as a secret laboratory/lair. Isn't it fun to want the unrealistic?

Considering the userbase here is a tiny fraction of that on /tg/ you are unlikely to ever get that sort of attention even if you had the greatest art and writing skills known to humanity. It's just not a thing that is possible. If it's a text quest, people will minimise it on principle. If you want the level of attention you'd get from /tg/, well, why not go to /tg/?
>>
No. 36011 ID: 1f2692

>>345478

nope, not gonna happen
>>
No. 37027 ID: e091f3

Did we ever make a point about not having things like "First time doing a quest! It probably won't be very good, and please disregard the crappy artwork!" in the OP of a quest? Maybe it's just a personal pet peeve, but why would you undermine your first quest? First impressions are important, and making your opening line a warning about how bad you're going to be is a terrible way to start.
>>
No. 37086 ID: 252e1b

>>346827

I think a truthful disclaimer is fine. In fact I wish more quests opened with a truthful disclaimer that they're going to be shit and have shit art.

(Let's not just troll art quests again. Shit writing is even more prevalent.)
>>
No. 37118 ID: 3416ec

>>346886

If they're going to be crap, and the author admits it... why would I want to read it?

No, I'd discourage self-flagellation. It just lends itself to a negative start to a quest.
>>
No. 37125 ID: 252e1b

>>346918

There are plenty of people who will tolerate crap as long as it is in a flavor they like. Furries. Transhumanists. Hipsters (though they claim it is ironic). Twilight Fans. I could go on but my point is made.
>>
No. 37142 ID: 2563d4

I thank authors whose first line is "this is going to be shit" for letting me know in advance to hide the quest and its discussion thread.

Although if they really wanted to optimise the process they should not start in the first place, since their aim is so low and they clearly neither care about their quest nor want anybody else to.
>>
No. 37228 ID: b6c6fc

this community can be a harsh place, critique and simple mockery are common (these are actually among the reasons I like the site)

this isn't deviant art, people will say when you suck.

I think a lot of people at first (myself included) are afraid of receiving a heavy backlash of hate over poor quality

fortunately for me all my hate was located in the Anon thread and I didn't seen it until weeks after
>>
No. 37238 ID: 2eac65

>>347028
Criticism and mockery are two completely different things. One is focused on identifying flaws so that someone can understand the critic's opinion and improve, the other is focused on being hostile and rude for the sake of being hostile and rude.

Unfortunately, many people commit the latter as if it were the former, because they think bad things deserve to be called bad, even if doing so only serves to be needlessly unpleasant without being useful, or there isn't actually anything wrong with the subject apart from the speaker's personal preferences.
>>
No. 37267 ID: 3d1254

>>347028
>>347038
And some authors receive neither criticism nor mockery nor positive comments and fade away.
>>
No. 38834 ID: 252e1b

>>347038

If bad things are not called out for what they are, standards as a whole begin to shift and stuff that was formerly laughably bad is seen as acceptable.

>>346886
>(Let's not just troll art quests again. Shit writing is even more prevalent.)

Look who is too high and mighty to reply like the rest of us peons! Everyone get a good look. Look. Look. It's this guy. He is too high on his horse to engage in the discussion normally.

>>347067

What's your point?
>>
No. 38837 ID: 2eac65

>>348634
Yes, it's good to be critical of quests, but it's best to be constructive about it. Telling someone "your anatomy needs work" or "you don't develop your characters enough" helps, but things like "this is shit, get it off the board" don't. As the rules page says,

>Make valid criticisms. Don't just say "I hate your quest" or "You are a terrible author", give reasons and preferably, ways to improve. ("Quit questing and go away" doesn't count.)
>>
No. 38946 ID: 049dfa

>>348634

I'm not too high and mighty to respond, there wasn't any need to type up a response when I was already dropping the warning on you. It's just an efficient use of time.
>>
No. 39686 ID: 57d39e

So I have a question: You quest authors, how do you decide what sort of perspective to use? I mean writing rather than art - for example, the traditional adventure game perspective ("You are in a house") versus a first person voice ("I appear to be in a house") or a PC-object dialogue ("Hey shiny ball, check out this house I'm in"). Did you have a reason to use the writing perspective you did, or was it just a matter of personal preference?
>>
No. 39716 ID: 383006

>>349486
It will fundamentally alter the style of the quest. The closer the suggesters are to the action, the more leeway they expect the main character to have. For example - if you write a story in third person limited and take majority suggestions, the suggesters will expect there to be less of a filter between what they suggest and what happens. If you have the character directly "hear" the suggestions (most first person quests), they will suggest as if they are talking to the character. The second way usually gets more suggestions, but also more suggestions that are just talking to the character and not really suggesting a course of action. You will definitely have people asking questions and trying to interact with the character instead of moving the action along. So, a more removed perspective will lead to a more streamlined narrative.

These aren't universal, of course. You can run a really close third person narrative, but there will still be a level of separation that is not present in a first person narrative.

I don't know about second person. Not too many quests have been run that way. I would expect it to be even further removed from the character, ironically, because even in a third person quest, many suggesters will suggest as if they are trying to convince the character (which I think is good anyway), but this seems kind of pointless if you are supposed to be the guy running around.

Aside from this, the perspective colors the world. In a third person story, you describe things in a neutral way (or mostly neutral), but in a first person story, everything is colored by the perspective of the character, and their "voice" will make a huge difference as to how things appear. You have an almost-definitionally less reliable narrator.

So yes, I pick it based on how I expect the quest to go, not on any sort of personal preference.
>>
No. 39720 ID: 2563d4

>>349516
>I don't know about second person. Not too many quests have been run that way.
DFQ1 ran that way, partly because I was deliberately matching the style of classic Sierra adventures, and partly becuase it indeed stopped people having conversations with the protagonist for the most part.
>>
No. 40480 ID: 874bd8

Hey guys, you mind if I ask a question? Just a kinda small harmless one.

Recently I got this simple idea for a quest, but I don't know if I should really go through with it or not, mostly because it relies heavily on well...my deviantart journal.

I know that dA sucks and I should find another place to do anything remotely art related, but I recently thought up a kinda neat idea (in my opinion, if you think it's stupid or childish that's okay I guess <:3).

The idea is that I wrote an intro on the journal, and every time someone replies, I give them a different response, ergo, creating a totally different quest for each person that responds. This allows me to test out different settings and stuff without risking ridicule or anything on here because, and I'll admit, anything I can come up with atm wouldn't really hold a candle to anything on here now (or maybe my self esteem needs help or something I dunno). I want to know if maybe I should stick to this kind of 'Quest Easy Mode' if you will, until I can really try something bigger on here.

I'm really really sorry if I'm spamming this thread or asking a really stupid question or something, I just figured that you guys here on Quest would be able to give me a good opinion since you guys are the Quest experts.
>>
No. 40484 ID: 2b5bad

>>350280
>and every time someone replies, I give them a different response, ergo, creating a totally different quest for each person that responds.

oh dear god no why would you ever want to make that much work for yourself aaaaaa
>>
No. 40485 ID: 874bd8

>>350284

Actually, considering that most of the other people on dA are too full of themselves or busy worshipping anime and memes, very few people would respond anyways. 83c

And besides, I have a ton of free time on my hands. |3c
>>
No. 40490 ID: 15b51b

Finishing a regular quest is hard enough.

Run a normal quest first, and then think your idea over.
>>
No. 40491 ID: 35e1a0

that is not easy mode. that is HARD MODE. depending on numbers. get too many people and it will fall apart as you mix up who gets what.
>>
No. 40494 ID: 874bd8

Actually, and this is kinda sad, I've already been trying the idea out for a few days now. Luckily only two people, who happen to be friends who know how quests even work, actually responded.

Oh, and to clarify a bit, the quests are text only, with maybe a couple pictures relating to them, and right now they center around a single setting rather than completely different stories altogether.

Again, I'm really sorry if I'm cluttering the thread or anything, and I'm really grateful for the advice you guys are giving me. :3
>>
No. 40509 ID: eba49f

>>350294
Considering that the title of this is
>Quest Advice: All in one place
feel free to post your 'quest'ions here.
>>
No. 40519 ID: 02de21

>>350284
A Flower did that in a limited fashion during its first thread. Every poster ID was able to create their own custom flower and grow independently. It was pretty awesome.

I wouldn't want to contemplate the work involved in trying something more complicated than growing custom flowers in a closed environment with minimal sensory input, though.
>>
No. 40669 ID: 874bd8

>>350309

Okay, thanks. I just don't want to get on anyone's bad sides for asking stupid questions or anything. <:3

Also, on kind of the same subject, if I was to start a quest on here, would it be alright to kind of switch between text and art to make updates easier, or should I just stick to one or the other? xux;
>>
No. 40673 ID: bcf350

>>350469
A few quests have done text with art sometimes. I don't think people mind all that much, depending. Pure text quests are sort of not received well, so make sure there are enough pictures.
>>
No. 40734 ID: 874bd8

>>350473

Okay, I'll probably go for the mix then. I can't really do just text because of the negativity they seem to get, plus my writing isn't exactly too verbose or technical or anything anyways.

And I can't really do just pictures because I don't have a tablet or any real art programs outside of MS Paint to make constant pics for updates. Unless I pulled a RubyQuest and did the entire thing black and white with overly simple character designs and backgrounds.

One more thing, you guys don't think using smilies or stuff while posting on here is anooying or anything right? <:3; Because if it is I'll gladly stop using them...maybe.

Again, thanks a ton for all the advice and stuff. I'm really grateful that you took the time to help, and I'm sorry if I inconvenienced you guys in any way.
>>
No. 40754 ID: 2563d4

>Mixed image/no-image updates
You will want to put something on the "no image" updates so that people do not scroll straight past them, since they'll blend into the suggestions, even if it's just the title image, or using the talking-heads thing as an "this is an update" icon.
>>
No. 40761 ID: 5f55fe

Yea, I was thinking of doing a quest myself. I am currently planning it out, so it'll be a while before I actually start it.

I have no drawing skills, so that is a bust. However, I know some very good quests that never drew their own images. Namely Golem Quest is the first that comes to mind. Now, I don't expect to make a quest as good as that, but I can certainly make something interesting.

So as long as I post some sort of image every update it should be fine, right? And even better if I can find an image that sort of relays what I want to show.

I'm reading through the "Advice for Running a Quest" wiki page, but is there any other advice you guys can offer for preparation before launching the quest?
>>
No. 40826 ID: cb3a34

Well, as it has been pointed out, text quests are generally avoided by a good number of people(myself included).
1. You need to learn how to write descriptively.
2. Indent your paragraphs if you know how.
3. Have the entire world written out before hand. Atleast 3 major cities with at least 5 minor building descriptions for each one, and ever major building. Likewise, make sure you have several environments described already.
4. An NPC list with descriptions, and don't just pick one thing with the npc or they become flat.
5. While this goes under 'know how to write', I will put it here. Use more then one sense when describing things. Don't just put how they look. How do they feel under your feet? Smell? Heat or cold? Breezy? Taste in the air? Include similes your audience can understand.
6. Keep description written down or someone will point it out when you mess it up the second time you mention it.
7. While this is under writing, I will give it a spot. For the love of god, the main characters need multiple motives. Give them at least 2 pages of background each(10 font single spacing). Personality quirks, reasons for risking their lives beyond simple 'live or die'.
8. Dialog Everyone talks differently. Two people from the same place can have the same accent, but still use different words and experience things different ways. I've got cousins that are twins. You put them in the same room, throw a big bouncy ball to ricochet a million places. Each of them will have a completely separate way of looking at it.
9. Different inferences. Don't have it that every character can get the same thought from one sentence. I'm mangling this, but I got an (bad)example. I am hot. While this could mean that I'm talking about the weather, some cultures would change this to sexually turned on. Some would see it as bragging about looks. Misunderstandings can, and will, happen.


There's tons more advice, so go pick up something on how to write a story book and read it.
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No. 40866 ID: 5f55fe

>>350626
Thanks for the tips. I was heading towards that for the most part. I know enough not to start until I have the world, and all it's cities, and stuff written up. Thanks for 5-9 though.
>>
No. 40895 ID: 2563d4

>>350561
>However, I know some very good quests that never drew their own images. Namely Golem Quest is the first that comes to mind.
You are beyond help. :V

>>350626
>Atleast 3 major cities with at least 5 minor building descriptions for each one, and ever major building.
This is bizzarely specific, as well as being bizzare in specifying a minimum at all. Spec out the places needed to tell the story. If you can tell a story on a handful of sets, so much the better---see Ruby Quest. Large worlds aren't intrinsically bad (see Bite Quest) but should exist because you have interesting things that are going to happen there, not because you're trying to meet some quota.

My main piece of advice is DELETE, DELETE, DELETE. Once you have written an update, remove absolutely everything you can from it. Edit that sucker to within an inch of its life, like you're trying to fit an entire paper on relativity into the one-page limit of an insane journal.

While he's talking about non-fiction, Orwell's Six Rules worked well for his fiction, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_and_the_English_Language#Remedy_of_Six_Rules
And he didn't even have to pepper classics like Animal Farm or Nineteen-Eighty Four with Google Image Search results to keep people's interest.
>>
No. 40901 ID: 89de88

As a borderline coherent writer who ostensibly runs quests at times, here's my input/response to some of these points raised, for the sake of another perspective. This is right up there with Vyt editing the wiki's advice page, though. If you don't know what I'm talking about, disregard this and continue.

(DISCLAIMER: I am probably not the sort of person you should be taking advice from, given that the only way I get readers is to cheat the fuck out of the system when I can actually update, per se. I might explain that at some other time, but for now I'm just throwing my two cents along with everyone else.)

>>350626
1. Yes. Without question.

2. Indentation isn't as key as text separation as a whole. Indentation also tends to be a bastard to get to work reliably on the internet, I've seen, so I tend to work around it by using an inordinate amount of new lines (please see disclaimer).

3. The minimum requirements listed are not even applicable to a large variety of settings. But the value of having the foundation of a world is incredible. That said, my general approach tends to be to have a general framework in mind and fill in details as appropriate. This works for me, and complete plans work for others, so decide what you do better at. Personally, my best ideas tend to come at me situationally, and any large plans I make need inevitably need patching closer to the time, so...

4. Again, I am very much an improv guy here, and I agree with having an NPC be more than a single personality trait. That said, if you're comfortable with developing a character as you go along, you can use archetypes and established traits to loosely define a character initially. I don't believe in having everything written out beforehand, because it implies an NPC is a static thing that will not change over time.

5. Good advice, but I hate it when writers throw all senses all the time into a piece of text. The main thing to take away from this is just to not use appearances of things as the be-all and end-all of description. Please don't go to the other extreme and start meticulously and laboriously detailing unimportant things if they don't help to define a scene, character, widget, citrus fruit or otherwise.

6. This is more of a text quest thing, I guess. When I ran a text quest my number one flaw was poor description of characters (and then I ended up just drawing them anyway). Not intending to run text quests ever again, though. Didn't realise how much I'd miss the amount of information an image can provide until I couldn't provide images due to externally imposed constraints.

7. Falls under oddly specific in defining not just a minimum amount of background, but also a font size. Again, I agree with the point raised, and everyone has a motivation (even if that motivation is just live or die, which it shouldn't be if your characters are complex sapient individuals) but this kind of goes back to planning vs. improvisation.

Aside: Before I started TWIM, I had about two full pages of (incomplete) background written for Sinter. Since then, maybe two things on that background actually correspond to the "actual" background trickling into the quest, and I cannot see the point of rewriting a large chunk of background no-one else will ever see when the relevant information is in other files. Most of my written plans end up thrown by the wayside in favour of a better idea closer to the time, but I guess this is symptomatic of my failures as an author how I work.

8. Yes. Do this. One of my major failings as a writer is a lack of good voice for characters, because they all end up sounding like me trying to speak in a funny voice rather than standing on their own merits. I dunno, if anyone has advice on voice I know I'd sure as hell like to hear it.

9. Also this. I consider another major failing of my writing to be a total lack of miscommunication. Your characters get to share the same headspace in your head, but unless they're actually mind readers (and even then), this should not reflect in your work.

>>350695
Good writing, like engineering, is taking away until there's nothing left to remove. This is why I will never be a good writer.

Instead I recently just try to hide the fact I can't edit by drawing more pictures. I think it's only making things worse, but this isn't the place to ask for comments and criticism. That'd be the job of my rotting, decaying general quest discussion thread.

Then there was the time where I ran stuff by other people and they shouted me down for removing what I thought was useless cruft and what they insisted was the only stuff indicating development of characters, which I guess shows my priorities are all wrong, but, oh dear, there I go rambling again.
>>
No. 41093 ID: c3a9b1

>>350561
You might be able to get someone to do the drawings while you write the update. I've always wanted to do something like that since I'm not that great at writing, so if you're looking for someone...!
>>
No. 41112 ID: 5f55fe

>>350893
Sure, that sounds tempting. I was getting discouraged from doing this, but having an artist would certainly fix that. How do you want me to contact you, so we can talk about this?

Do you have skype? I can send you the stuff I was planning, to see if you are still interested.
>>
No. 41127 ID: c3a9b1

>>350912
I do have Skype, but I'm away from a personal computer until, like, September, so it'll have to wait until then. :V I just wanted to jump on the opportunity, is all.

saging a stickied thread for no raisin
>>
No. 41129 ID: 5f55fe

>>350927
Okay... that gives me more time to plan, but how am I going to contact you?
>>
No. 41179 ID: 10d022

Uhhh, bro, outside of its fans, Golem Quest is generally considered not a very good quest. As are text quests in general. If you can't draw, please try. No one will ever think badly of you for having shitty art instead of no art at all. And the more you draw your quest, you might find yourself getting better and better at drawing.
>>
No. 41188 ID: 44766a

Ok, Am fairly new here. Could someone explain to me the general bias against text quests? You know, other than not having art.
>>
No. 41189 ID: 5f55fe

>>350979
Woah woah woah. Why is it considered bad? I think it is quite possibly the greatest quest I've read here. (I've been here for about 6 months) It's very well written, it's interesting, has some amazing fighting scenes, the suggesters have plenty of impact on the quest.

What is not to like? And it has gone on for a LONG time, something has to have gone right.

As a comparison, could you point me to your favorite quest (current or archived)? And I'll read that.
>>
No. 41191 ID: 3416ec

>>350988

Because quests are generally a visual medium, I guess.
>>
No. 41197 ID: 35e1a0

>>350989
no no, it LOOKS well written at a glance, but after reading it for a while it became clear that while wordy it just wasn't well written.
>>
No. 41198 ID: 5f55fe

>>350997
Fine, whatever, we'll leave it as an opinion thing. You don't like it. I do. It is pointless to argue further.

I enjoyed it completely and look forward to when he continues it.
>>
No. 41203 ID: 44766a

But I remember reading some where that something happened in tgchan's past that created a bias against text quests. Could someone shed some light on that, please?
>>
No. 41204 ID: 049dfa

>>350988
>>351003

There have been two text quests that weren't completely terrible and one was abandoned after a handful of posts.

That there were also a bunch of tards who thought 'it's really long it MUST be good!' (Dominic Deegan has been running for 9 years and change) and attempting to attack the intelligence of people who didn't like their horribly-written quest of choice. This created a backlash against that quest, and against the entire medium of text quests (after all, if a quest as awful as that one was supposed to be a GOOD text quest, what on earth would an AVERAGE one look like?). The legion of shitty /tg/ text quests sure as hell didn't help.
>>
No. 41206 ID: aa66a4

>>351004
Long quests are veiwed as good by the fanbase because of the assumption that people need to tolerate it for it to last, while DD is a webcomic and doesn't need fans to like it for it to get posted.

Unfortunately, GQ's main problems are, among others:

* Prose so purple it dyes the wash

* Information that is only available off-quest and the boards in IRC (though this is improving)

* Loads and loads of characters, setting details, and other information that is mentioned once or twice then never used again

* It's enourmous. In the time you finish absorbing it all to present, it's likely you could have read another book, or something.

* Other minor, aggravating things (Overuse of certain phrases in dialogue, Bob trying to write sexual fanservice at one point when he isn't very good at it, formatting errors, etc)

Guns for Hire is a tighter quest, but not by much. THe best text quests on the site have been done by authors who normally use art (Bitequest and Cirr).

Also most text quests are not all that great. Most are pretty mediocre, and I say that as a lover of the medium.
>>
No. 41209 ID: 2daed4

Hmm... I wonder. When you do image-based quests do you draw the characters in many different poses beforehand and then use those with minor modifications to post updates faster? Or do you practice with them until you're able to draw them really fast?
And what about cutscenes? :) I guess they're often made beforehand as well seeing them posted just few minutes after the last update :)
>>
No. 41211 ID: 2563d4

>>351009
>sprites
Personally, I think they make everything look a bit rigid, and try to avoid them (although Buswald at the start of DFQ2 re-used art a few times, but then he's a robot). Well-respected quests like Bite Quest (at least at the start) and Tezakia Quest have used them, though, so it's not a showstopper. Do also consider that placing sprites isn't helping you practice getting the character down quickly and consistently for when you do need to draw them again, e.g. for:

>cutscenes
Batch up all the updates and post them in one go. Drip-feeding doesn't work---people will post in the middle, ruining the flow, and the only thing they could really contribute would be "continue" anyway. (I really fucked this up with DFQ2's return to the mansion, which shouldn't have been strung out as a series of updates with no interesting choices to make.)
>>
No. 41469 ID: 632928

Ok some little advice based on rules of Adventure Game design:

1. Always try to give the problem first and the solution later. For example: player is unable to progress because the fire is blocking his path. If the player has a bucket of water in his inventory already, then this will be no puzzle at all. On the contrary if the player has nothing to solve the current problem with, then he will explore avalible locations in order to find a solution - this is far more interesting.

2. Avoid trial and error puzzles like pressing buttons in the correct order without any hints about the correct answer. It will only annoy players

3. Put some sort of warning in places where players can die instantly upon entering them. Example: bones in front of a monster cave. If the player enters the cave with no sign of danger in front of it and dies instantly he will be annoyed because he couldnt know it's dangerous to do so.

4. Try to avoid puzzles that require specialist real-world knowledge. Example: fixing electric wiring. This puzzle is ok if you simplify it like "replace broken wire" or when the main character has the knowledge about electronics. On the other hand when you ask the players to properly solve some electric system so it works properly like it would in real life - then you have pushed it too far.

5. Speaking of main character knowledge - let the players know the character has a certain skill before they need to use it. Example: you try to escape from the building that is on fire and get stuck on the roof. There's a helicopter there and suddenly it turns out the character actually knows how to pilot it. The players will feel cheated. Instead try to show this skill earlier - like the character actually arrives at the first scene with the helicopter or mentions this skill to some NPC when talking about the previous job, etc.

That's all for now :)
>>
No. 41481 ID: b1f0e2

>>342103
>If you want an actual audience 4chan.org/tg has more people, and janitors that are friendly to everything but furry porn. If you want to run a furry porn quest I guess this is the place.
4chan tg actually ban anything they conceive as furry even if NOT pornographic... regardless, this is far from the difference between the two sites.
Also I feel that 4chan has a LOT more rapists and trolls in the audience.

tgchan/quest is like 4chan/tg except:

1. Threads are not auto deleted
2. There is no autosage so a chapter continues until finished, even if it takes more than one day
3. There is a built in archive and graveyard (quests reported completed are moved to archive by mods where they cannot be replied to anymore, quests without a post in 30 days are moved to graveyard, can be manually reactivated by author’s request)
4. There is no captcha,
5. Rolls are visible by default
6. Identifier (hash based on IP) is always visible.
7. Posting in a thread takes you back to that same thread
8. there is a built in wiki.
9. Better code. Ex: Hovering over something like >>15457471 will display that post as a tooltip.
10. Has a questdis section for discussion threads relating to quests.
11. has some other sections, namely: draw, general, tg
12. Its only for quests; while in tg most people are not here for quests and tend to dislike them for some odd unexplained reason.
13. clicking on an image’s filename enlarges it in frame to full size without reloading the page.
14. There is an enlarge all button.
>>
No. 41483 ID: 28e94e

>>351281
So basically:
>way better software
>responsible mods
>the entire site is actually dedicated to quests
>>
No. 41499 ID: 2cf92d

I wonder if there is any estimate of the active users count?
>>
No. 41563 ID: 400170

>>351299
The IRC channel is a fairly good estimate of active users who are not anonymous. There are currently 64 users in there. Some of them do not even visit the site, but some people who visit the site don't go on the IRC.
>>
No. 41576 ID: 55c4cf

>>351363

The IRC is a terrible estimate of active users. Most users do not use IRC.
>>
No. 41618 ID: 1292a0

So what's the difference between making a quest on the mspa forums and making a quest here?
>>
No. 41629 ID: 400170

The community, MSPA has no porn.
>>
No. 41634 ID: 523c4c

This place is also a bit more tightknit, starved of quality, and has an active IRC. Which means if you do something here and do it well, you'll be a big fish in a small pond (as opposed to the glut that is MSPAFA).
>>
No. 41681 ID: b6edd6

Also there is a different set of memes. From what I have seen /tg/ has more Ripping and Tearing and reading NOTES, and less references to MSPA or well known things on MSPA.
>>
No. 41695 ID: 049dfa

>>351434

The 'starved of quality' thing isn't really a difference.
>>
No. 41710 ID: 79cb9d

For what it's worth, the added anonymity (even if it's not really that anonymous) of the board rather than forum approach might make people feel more comfortable putting themselves out there. It's easier to post some doodles you normally wouldn't share with anyone when it's just attached to an ID no one looks at rather than a forum account.

That doesn't mean people don't put in effort or try just as hard, it just means there's less of a pressing need to defend or justify yourself.
>>
No. 42005 ID: 7abdcf

>>351429
MSPA has no porn on the forums. They're still freaks about porn. And there's a really disproportionate amount of guro.
>>
No. 42010 ID: 3392ab

>>350929
If you're still interested, I go by 'Citizen' on IRC.
>>
No. 43806 ID: 35bcde

>>351810
Citizen is deaaddddddddddd
>>
No. 45281 ID: 210977

>>353606

CITIZEN LIVES
>>
No. 45522 ID: bb0df0

Query (since I guess this is where I ask questions on making quests. It does say "Quest Advice," so I'm going to go ahead and makes this assumption.):

If one were to be considering the idea of starting a quest, exactly what would you consider to be the best approach, image-wise? As in, black and white or color; detailed and slow at updating or sketchy and more quickly updated; in comic form or with accompanying text? I'm a bit of a geek for Weaver's quests, so I've become accustomed to the simple-black-and-white-art-with-accompanying-text approach, but is that the preferred method? Or should I consider something else?

Okay, that was far more than one query. Apologies.
>>
No. 45525 ID: bb0df0

Query (since I guess this is where I ask questions on making quests. It does say "Quest Advice," so I'm going to go ahead and makes this assumption.):

If one were to be considering the idea of starting a quest, exactly what would you consider to be the best approach, image-wise? As in, black and white or color; detailed and slow at updating or sketchy and more quickly updated; in comic form or with accompanying text? I'm a bit of a geek for Weaver's quests, so I've become accustomed to the simple-black-and-white-art-with-accompanying-text approach, but is that the preferred method? Or should I consider something else?

Okay, that was far more than one query. Apologies.
>>
No. 45540 ID: b6edd6

(Speculation from someone who has never actually run a quest:)
In terms of detail, I would think the most important factor is that it not be exhausting over the long term. Successful quests tend to go on for quite awhile before reaching the end of their story, after all.
The second most important thing would be clarity (people can tell what something is by looking at it).
Personally I find that as images get more detailed, color or shading becomes more important. So for a minimalist art style (like Weaver's style) black and white works fine, but as you get into more detail unshaded line art can get really confusing.

(And you can delete posts like those duplicate ones by checking the box on the top-left corner of the post and clicking the delete button on the bottom-left corner of the page {though if you did not make a password yourself beforehand it will only delete if you are in the same browser session}).
>>
No. 45541 ID: fa59a2

Holy crap dude, just press "Reply" once, even if it doesn't look like it's sending.
>>
No. 45542 ID: 383006

>>355325
If one were to be considering the idea of starting a quest, exactly what would you consider to be the best approach, image-wise? As in, black and white or color; detailed and slow at updating or sketchy and more quickly updated; in comic form or with accompanying text? I'm a bit of a geek for Weaver's quests, so I've become accustomed to the simple-black-and-white-art-with-accompanying-text approach, but is that the preferred method? Or should I consider something else?

Only a few people do comic-style updates. I think it's inferior to image-and-text. Black and white as to color is a matter of personal preference. If you can actually spend the time to take advantage of the faster update speed, then do that, otherwise, there is no point and you might as well do colored art. It's sort of a matter of preference though. Clean, colorful art is also more likely to attract attention, especially if you are new.
>>
No. 45559 ID: 459534

Some questions on character death.

Is character death sometimes a good idea, or is it always a bad one? If it's sometimes good, when should it be used and how should it be handled?

What about giving the audience the freedom to "fail" and wind up getting a character killed (possibly even a main character) because of the choices they've made, a la RubyQuest and NanQuest? Is that always a bad idea, or can it be a good one? If the latter, how should it be handled when used?

Finally, if you choose to make it impossible for characters to die, how can you still generate suspense or a sense of danger in your quests?
>>
No. 45566 ID: 3bd8ec

>>355359
Joke kill-'em-all endings notwithstanding, I personally don't really go in for character death as a thing in my quests, although others certainly do.

All I'll say is that it's quite possible to have a sense of suspense or danger without the stakes being death.
>>
No. 45575 ID: 55c4cf

A two tiered warning for character death is recommended. Make it clear in the quest itself that it can happen. Give a warning that it could happen in the next update unless adequately handled.

An alternative secondary warning would be a character in a critical state. In said critical state it should be warned that anything damaging is likely to cause death.
>>
No. 45578 ID: 7383a1

>>355359
I'd just like to point out that no main characters died because of players fucking up in Rubyquest.

I would certainly say that killing characters isn't always a bad idea. It depends on how good an author you are, and what kind of quest you want to run.

I think you need to know if you're going to kill characters before the quest starts and either plan for it by having alternate protagonists, or not caring if the quest ends permanently through bad decisions from the suggesters.

People will probably get mad about the second one, but that's not necessarily something that should prevent you from doing it.

You should also show that actions have serious consequences before killing a character. Usually, you can avoid having to permanently kill characters by mutilating or seriously injuring them instead. Killing a character on a choice that seems not to be dangerous is a pretty gay thing, and "Gygaxian"-style traps should be avoided.

I hope this helps.
>>
No. 45580 ID: 459534

Thanks for the responses!

>>355378
True, no main characters died as a result of player failure in RubyQuest, but it was a possibility. If memory serves, Weaver once said that s/he planned to have Tom die via the spear trap that was later used against Ace if players had him disturb the fetus statue. This brings up another point to consider regarding character death: Knowing that they "earned" RubyQuest's good ending seemed to make players enjoy it all the more.

Not really a question, I know. Just kinda thinking out loud.

Anyway, thanks again for the helpful advice! :)
>>
No. 45583 ID: 3bd8ec

>>355380
To be completely fair, the players didn't know that until Weaver told them sometime after the quest had ended, and I as someone who read the quest after the fact didn't know that until well afterwards.

As far as ending the quest itself permanently through character death, I'd strongly advise against that in the general case. A lot more people have read quests like Ruby or Tezakia after they were completed than while they were running, and a quest where it's obvious that everything ended horribly and prematurely isn't going to have a lot of value to this secondary audience.

It could be done right, but it's probably telling that I can't think of a single example.
>>
No. 45586 ID: 383006

>>355380 We have no idea if that's actually so. You have to take the work as it's presented! (also, Weaver is a dude) I mean, I said in my quests that characters could die, and it's true, but they didn't actually die, so they're not good examples of character death in a quest.

Also, while I somewhat agree with Typo, I also don't think a story has to have a happy ending to be good. I would be more worried about you as author getting frustrated without being able to get to the good parts of your quest than whether or not people will read it after the fact.
>>
No. 45610 ID: c7b6c2

So, uh, a few questions for those who have relevant experience:

It is a bad idea to run multiple quests at a time? And at what point does a quest warrant a discussion thread?
>>
No. 45619 ID: 50b635

>>355410
I imagine that as long as you're okay with the update speed of both your quests being slowed, you can go ahead; and my philosophy is that if you or others have something to say that you want to put on the site but not clog the actual thread with, it warrants a discussion thread.
>>
No. 45632 ID: 4bc7e6

>>355410
In my experience running multiple quests can be hazardous (especially if they intertwine) But it does help mobilize your attention.
The important thing when running multiple quests, is to pace yourself. The first step is accepting that you will slow down.
>>
No. 45674 ID: aebc1f

don't do it, that is my input.
>>
No. 45818 ID: d6ae01
File 132188425282.png - (193.18KB , 500x400 , slissabot after a year of tozzling.png )
45818

One thing I'm seeing a lot is people getting tired of their long-running quests. I compared their quests to my largest quest (which is 1860 images long!), wondering why mine finished when others couldn't. What makes them different?

I then realized that for all its size, my quest only ran seven months.

In a lot of ways I really lucked out with Tezakia. I originally intended it to be a short, simple quest... but I didn't plan for that properly at all. The story I had in mind was way too big to be told in a few chapters, so I created a behemoth of a quest to tell it.

I lucked out because the speed I updated and the length of the quest was absolutely perfect for me at the time. By the time I started really tiring out, the quest was over.

But for the one time someone lucked out, there's a ton of times people haven't. They start a major quest with the idea of making this huge awesome story, but they don't realize that their starting energy and inertia are going to run out as their quest goes. They don't realize they will tire out.

They will update daily. But one day becomes two. then four. then months. Suddenly a quest that was meant to run for 2 months is years old, and still much smaller than the 7 month quest I lucked out with.

So my advice is this. I know you're super excited to start a quest, but take a step back and really think about how long you want to tell the same story with the same characters.

If you draw slowly, an update could take a few hours. Are you really sure that you can spend a few hours a day, every day, telling your story? Keep in mind the nature of quests means your quest could end up running far longer than you intended! People will usually "faff about" as much as you'll let them.


Be prepared to spend a very long time on a quest, even if you're starting out with a short story. There's no telling what could happen!

I think the biggest reason people get tired of their quests is that they enter a cycle. They tire out, so updates slow down. Slower updates makes the quest take longer to finish. The longer it takes to finish, the less you want to run it, until eventually you decide not to run it anymore.

I lucked out with Tezakia... but if we move to Venji, we'll see a quest where I didn't luck out. Like Tezakia, I made a story too large for the time frame, but unlike Tezakia, I didn't maintain my energy and inertia until the end. Venji updates began to slow down, and I became less and less fond of running it. The only reason it finished was because my pride was stronger than my desire to quit.

If you find yourself in this situation, it's pretty tricky to get past it and still finish a quest. Taking a week off can help, but in some cases the time spent not running a quest does little more than make you realize how little you want to run it. Running an unrelated one-shot could be a good break, so long as you ensure it is a one-shot, else it could end up in the same situation as your main quest. Definitely make it something very easy and fast to draw, something to just have silly fun with. Doing this really helped me finish Tezakia, as it was a break from drawing hours a day, and it let me relax and unwind between chapters.

Prevention is really the best solution, though. I would recommend undershooting your plot length. If you want to run a quest for 5 months, design a story that would take 1 month to tell. The other 4 months will be filled in by suggestions and plot events you don't see coming. With Tezakia, I overshot by making this huge map thinking we'd spend at most 2 updates in a room. But the suggestions and character story ended up causing a lot of time spent not exploring at all! In fact, the weakest part of Tezakia was the chapter where I decided to force the characters to move from room to room more quickly.


So in the end, the best thing you can do is consider how fast you can draw, think about how long you want to run a quest, and then design the quest to run half that long.
>>
No. 45820 ID: aebc1f

>>355618
would anyone believe that i read this whole thingand actually learned something from it? woah, like.... yeah, probably worth putting in the wiki maybe?
>>
No. 45825 ID: 2563d4

How to write succinctly:
Proof-read. Delete any word you can that doesn't convey a damn thing. Proof-read. Conveying tone counts, but one good word trumps ten rough ones. Proof-read. Simple words have less cost to defend. Pronouns are free. Subclauses better be worth it. Proof-read. Stop before you reach the threshold of cookery books.

Deleting extraneous words is not removing the fine detailing from your art. It is neatly erasing your sketch layer and pencil marks.
>>
No. 45826 ID: d6ae01
File 132190887140.jpg - (28.53KB , 256x255 , 256px-Gsbox.jpg )
45826

>>355625
Obviously I don't need this advice because I learned how to write succinctly from a very reliable source.
>>
No. 45869 ID: 9da432
File 132199802113.png - (45.38KB , 349x337 , you are awesome.png )
45869

>>355652

Slinko you're awesome
>>
No. 45890 ID: aebc1f

ALRIGHT, so i just figerred out a thingamajig.

So, music with picture posts- i would think the music can set the mood for the cutscenes or intermissions or what not.... what do you guys think, is that a yay its good or nay its not so good?
>>
No. 45893 ID: 1444d5

>>355690
Worked out pretty well in Romanticar. The big issue is that there's no real way to sync the images with the music*, so any relevant action has to go with the first few bars. You couldn't, for example, build up to your Big Revel in sync with a musical crescendo.


*potentially flash/video could be used, but that opens a whole new kettle of fish in regards to update length vs. suggestion granularity & control.
>>
No. 45901 ID: d6ae01
File Ch1.swf - (641.45KB , 550x400 )
45901

>>355693
Depends on the type of quest you want to run. It's totally possible to have flash animations and keep the quest pretty free-form if you do it right. The only problem I ran into was not being able to use one of my songs because making the animation would force railroading... which is more a product of bad planning than a limitation of the medium!

I don't think I could recommend making overly complex animations, though. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that an animation should be completable in 1-3 days so you minimize railroading.

Or you can generally just have them at the start of chapters, but I've managed to do it both ways, so it's totally possible!
>>
No. 45902 ID: d6ae01
File ch9_2.swf - (1.27MB , 550x400 )
45902

If you don't mind spoilers, here's another example. This one isn't an animation at all, but shows how you can use music for a reveal in a more normal style.

I drew it in flash, but you could always import normal ol images, too!
>>
No. 45903 ID: 1444d5

>>355701
>>355702
>railroading
That was the issue I couldn't get past. Using any musical track of significant length while maintaining synchronisation with the 'action'/dialogue/whatever meant you have a de-facto cutscene on your hands. The only solution that came to mind was to 'pause' the action at decision points, have suggestions made, then have the next update play from the start but continuing past the decision point with the new actions incorporated. Unfortunately, while this would make an excellent format for catching up with quests/reading them after the fact, for those participating it would mean watching the same sequence over and over again for a few extra seconds each time. Essentially the quest equivalent of quick-time events. Individual updates of a few seconds each means any extended musical track is similarly split up, making it a bit pointless.
I can't think of a way to have your cake and eat it too: to have action timed with music but maintaining participation from questers. You're stuck with either having a few general suggestions between cutscenes, or using only general area BGM (not entirely a bad thing, e.g. an 'overworld theme').
Short musical interludes and sound effects are not hampered by this though.
>>
No. 45912 ID: d6ae01

>>355703
That is a lot tougher, I admit. I made a song for one of the combats in my quest, but I never got to use it because of that very thing (how do you integrate both and have it still allow suggestions?) I guess the best you can do is judge what has to just not have a song, and what is so super awesome that people won't mind not suggesting for the scene while it plays.
>>
No. 45913 ID: 25d956

>>355703
I think this depends entirely on the nature of the quest and what decision points you are using. I think if suggestions are happening every few seconds for the characters in the quest (outside of a fight), then there are some issues with how you are running the quest.

Suggestions should come when it makes sense for new input, which probably shouldn't be every few seconds. The only other instance I can think of outside of fights is a back and forth dialogue, and that hardly needs intricate animations. Even then, the suggestions should probably not be every sentence the protagonist says, but enough for a small back and forth each update.

I think animation has nothing to do with granularity or decision-making. See Seal's quest "Fallen Stars" or Prequel (not on tgchan) for examples of frequent animation and heavy user involvement.

Having enough update or animation for music is an issue I can see, but then again, I hardly feel that animation or music would be relevant for every update or decision. If you look at Slinko's quests, he frequently has four or five images per update - that's certainly more than a few seconds of action per instance.

The final session of one of my quests had frequently "animated" updates. My issue wasn't with granularity, more with that it took much longer to produce the animations (they aren't spectacular, I just wanted a little something extra for the end of the quest).

[Your idea of stitching the updates together into a longer animation is pretty cool though - I think a solution could be to stitch them together at the very end of the scene instead of after each update though. That way you would only do a few seconds per body of input, but the whole thing could be put together once that part was essentially "over" with]
>>
No. 45915 ID: 1444d5

>>355713
>I think if suggestions are happening every few seconds for the characters in the quest (outside of a fight), then there are some issues with how you are running the quest.
Poor phrasing on my part: I was thinking seconds of video time, not necessarily in-quest time.
>Your idea of stitching the updates together into a longer animation is pretty cool though - I think a solution could be to stitch them together at the very end of the scene instead of after each update though. That way you would only do a few seconds per body of input, but the whole thing could be put together once that part was essentially "over" with
That still means splitting the update into nearly unwatchable chunks.
Take for example a few minutes from a movie. Imaging splitting each scene change into a separate file, and some of the scenes into multiple blocks of dialogue and action, then watching all these files individually. Breaking up a contiguous sequence into discrete chunks with gaps in doesn't work too well unless those chunks were created to be separate, and mushing the contiguous chunks together creates a final scene that doesn't hang together too well (lots of jump cuts and odd pacing).

This musing only applies to 3-4 minute 'epic' video updates. Shorter animated updates work fine as they are.

>I guess the best you can do is judge what has to just not have a song, and what is so super awesome that people won't mind not suggesting for the scene while it plays.
That's pretty much it. The longer the gap between interaction, the greater the chance of something occurring that some (or most) questers would rather have had a hand in.


A quest composed entirely of video updates could work, but it'd require a very high degree of character autonomy, and for any expectation of micromanagement to be nipped in the bud quickly. It would also have to be pretty slow-paced to keep the level of influence up, but this puts a lot of strain on the person(s) running the quest (depending on how the videos are created) as it would increase the overall length of the quest.
>>
No. 45916 ID: 1444d5

>>355715
This is all essentially guesswork though. It may turn out that, in practice, people are willing to exchange music and dramatic explosions for significantly reduced interaction.
>>
No. 45925 ID: aebc1f
File 132211583202.jpg - (21.17KB , 285x320 , one_i_get_my_coffee.jpg )
45925

no no, i mean a hybrid post... image and music...

for example this.


god i hope this works or i would look so dumb
>>
No. 45926 ID: 55f0cc

>>355725
That's some goddamn fancy coffee!
>>
No. 45927 ID: 25d956

I will maintain that video has little to nothing to do with level of interaction. See: the animated things I directly referenced before. I think the biggest difficulty would be the time it would take to produce them. I think they are only confusing and unwatchable if there is no accompanying text, and that would be an entirely bad idea. As far as stitching them together causing pacing problems - yes, that is likely. You're the one that brought it up, and I thought it was a kind of neat idea. In the same way that many quests can be read without the suggestions, I feel that it could be done properly.

Any accompanying image for a quest update usually only represents a sliver of what happens during the update. I don't think I've ever drawn an update that couldn't have been animated in some fashion. Of course, if you are talking about a 1+ minute long animation with music for each one, then yeah, Okay, that's going to be a giant waste of time for most updates, and you'd probably end up showing a bunch of boring things that weren't entirely productive to show. "Micromanaging," to me, is bad quest authorship to start with (with some few exceptions,) though. I do not think video implies character autonomy, or even that long updates do, which seems to be what you are implying.
>>
No. 45928 ID: aebc1f

>>355727
i'm mostly hearing you, the idea is to have an image, music, and text to explain the situations and actions that can be done. Moslty the music is there to accompany the following moments as well, like after the post with the song and first pic the next few pics go music less and they relate to the first pic that had the song relay. Like an interractive... slideshow i guess.
>>
No. 45930 ID: 2563d4

>>355727
>I don't think I've ever drawn an update that couldn't have been animated in some fashion.
See: Dungeon Deeper.

(See also: apparent burn-out within the first thread. :c )
>>
No. 45932 ID: 453e62

>>355728
except the music would not make the setting at all as people read at different paces. the very first seconds of the song need to be the mood. otherwise it will seem out of places. and having it calm at the start and ramp up or something because someone gets angry in the middle would be impossible because of the reading rates. someone could breeze through the whole thing before the music hits, or be too slow.
>>
No. 45989 ID: 1444d5

>>355727
>Of course, if you are talking about a 1+ minute long animation with music for each one, then yeah, Okay, that's going to be a giant waste of time for most updates, and you'd probably end up showing a bunch of boring things that weren't entirely productive to show.
That's exactly my point. You can have a long video of interesting things happening, but that means that's a bunch of interesting things that questers aren't doing.

Short videos/animated updates are a different kettle of fish and can be handled in the same way as static image updates.
>>
No. 45999 ID: d79ace
File 132227914142.jpg - (68.96KB , 300x340 , table.jpg )
45999

how do i keep my quests active
>>
No. 46000 ID: e70fc9

>>355799
Set goals for yourself. Make it a point to update at least once a day, maybe every two days. Also, try not to burn yourself out. A quest should be fun to both read and create, too.
>>
No. 46004 ID: 6f1d54

How does I stop falling into the trap of "Oh god my art is hideous why am I even trying".
>>
No. 46005 ID: b79855

>>355799
Draw faster!

>>355804
Drink!
>>
No. 46008 ID: 252e1b

>>355804

Yes, get drunk and then you won't care how horrible your art is. You'll be drunk.
>>
No. 46009 ID: f5e4b4

>>355804

Stop giving fucks. Hoard them.
>>
No. 46413 ID: a611d6

>>355809
>>355799

While it is true you shouldn't worry too much about your art quality, don't take this as an invitation to never attempt self-betterment.

The only thing separating us upstanding questfolk and the scum of DeviantArt is their complacency.
>>
No. 46422 ID: d79ace
File 132234863377.jpg - (51.07KB , 400x400 , japrock3-heavier.jpg )
46422

Also, what would I have to do if I would like to write for a quest but I need an artist

where could I find one that won't laugh at me
>>
No. 46423 ID: 0f3fa3

>>356222
I heard that IRC is a good place.

Also, co-creating a quest is apparently a lot more difficult than one might think. You have to be in constant contact and not have any disputes.

Furthermore, I'd recommend doing the art yourself. The consensus around here seems to be that "it's okay as long as it's not simple stick figures, so it isn't that hard to do. You could also consider doing a text-only quest.
>>
No. 46427 ID: f72f26

I would be willing to draw art for a quest if the idea seems good
>>
No. 46429 ID: d79ace

>>356227
remind me to query you tomorrow
>>
No. 46435 ID: 2563d4

>The 10000 Hour Rule is about crushing dreams. It's about understanding that there are limits to what you can do in the all-too-short period of time we spend on this Earth. It's about giving people who have achieved mastery the respect they deserve. It's about, before taking on a new task, honestly evaluating whether we can afford to give what it takes to complete it.
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2011/10/10000-hour-rule.html (but the Ira Glass quote and the conclusion quoted above are the worthwhile bits)
>>
No. 46436 ID: 55c4cf
 

Immediate warning: This is a lot to read.
Questing
I have told a handful of people the basic strategy I use when putting a quest 'together'. I know that other people just 'fly by the seat of their pants,' and that works for them but I don't recommend doing that. I think a massive part of the graveyard consists of that. An artist had a 'neat idea,' and hoped that the suggestions would take that neat idea and bring it somewhere fantastic without any planning. There might be examples where this works, but you should really reconsider starting out.
I made mistakes in my work that I always try and make light of for new people who want to tell a story.

Characters
Even if you are letting the suggesters create the character, this is still a thing. Especially if you are going to give them control, in fact. Draw your characters. Get familiar with the races if applicable and main cast so you will be ready to consistently express the characters so you are not put on the spot when you realize you are not nearly prepared to work with the people in your story. Know the characters you want to visualize through your work very well before you start, it will make a big difference for you. It will show for your readers as well.

Brainstorm
Just having neat characters will often be enough to keep a story thriving, but there's still important bits like the setting, overarching plots, antagonists, major events and everything in the bigger picture you might want to have ready for your quest even thinking to start. Your characters need goals. The readers need to have objectives that we can push them to meet. With something to accomplish, a story is much more entertaining to be a part of.

Outline
The video embedded is related to this. One minute and thirty seconds or so in TenNapel discusses how he breaks down his stories. This is almost identical to how I've structured my own stories, even before I saw this, and it's a very powerful tool.

Here is the basic breakdown:
Stories are usually broken into three acts. These do not need to be clear acts, by any means.
They can mean, “Beginning, Middle, End,” as TenNappel puts them, or Tarantino's three act system, “The characters know more than the audience, The audience catches up to the characters, The audience knows more than the characters.”
These are not necessarily required, but the basic three acts are a good start for the rest.
You take the three acts, and break that into a beginning, middle and end as well. Then you take all of those and break them into the same. The end result should be 27 or so pivotal moments. This gives you a very strong direction for the story.
Since this is a quest format I am using TenNapel's outline system as the focus because he uses 27 physical note cards. You have to be flexible with a quest by its very nature of allowing the readers to make an impact on the story. No matter how fine you outline your quest, things are going to change. Try and work with the suggesters, rather than against them. Be ready to change or rearrange the outline and restructure your story and especially your ending based on what actually happens.
The 27 Point outline could be an incredible tool to keeping your storytelling on track, but by no means should it cripple you or your readers.

The major benefit is that not only should your characters have a goal, you have a goal. You have a finish line for your quest to make it toward. There should always be an event you can hook into your quest. You can always (try to) smoothly transition from one point to another while suggestions help shape and refine the world you are painting for them.

OP Images
Title your quest. Put your title in the OP. Make it very clear at a glance that the OP is your quest. Make it obvious without a single drop of doubt that the image signifies your quest.
I am very serious. Not nearly enough people do this.

Speed
I am not the best person to tell anyone this, but it is the truth.
More people will pay attention to your quest if you are going to devote your attention to it. People do not enjoy waiting forever. People really don't like when they get into a quest and it stops existing at a whim.
If you are going to make a quest then either you need to try and update it consistently on a comic-like schedule, or you need to plan, announce, and follow through with sessions with a slew of updates for people to actively participate in all at once.
People really enjoy to do sessions, because the fast paced form makes it more like a game and less like a comic they get to give their two cents and wait for several months to get anything out of it.
If you are not willing to devote your time to your work, it is less likely that other people are going to either.

Clarity and Direction
This is a huge problem for people.
People are used to informal language and being able to get instant feedback. When you say something like, “It's over there,” and someone can instantly say, “What do you mean by there?” and after a dozen exchanges you realize you should have said, “The red paddle is over on top of the blue pail.” It would have been much much easier if that sentence was said first. This happens in quests when a quest author draws an update and does not write clearly enough what is going on, what needs to happen, and why the character cannot not do what we want them to do already.
If you want your readers to understand what is going on based on your update the first time, then actually tell them exactly what you want them to know. Artists will draw certain things, or writers will write certain things that make complete sense to them, but if the viewer doesn't see that with any amount of fair consistency then it's not the viewer's fault. It's yours.
It could be argued that the action and story can be succinctly displayed with the picture alone. Unfortunately, everyone cannot dependably do that 100% of the time. Virtually everyone can however, clearly write what they want the picture to show.

Direction is related to clarity, but is not the same thing. When you put an update down for readers to respond to, you can usually tell the difference very easily between a post with no direction and one with a very specific one. 'Sandbox,' is often the excuse or the basis for some of these updates and I can completely accept that. When and/or if nobody suggests anything because of that, it starts to become an empty justification for aimless storytelling.
You want to lead the readers to make a specific action towards a specific problem. Whether that's a multiple choice decision, a judgment call in a hairy situation, solving a puzzle, or determining a plan of action for the events surrounding the protagonist, you need to give people a direction to go. Some suggesters flourish on a dead stage, but from my experience I can testify that people are going to speak up when they know what they are pushing or arguing about.

Consequences
This is one that has shot me in the foot at least one time.
When readers make a decision, as directed in the last part, there needs to be a consequence for it. Consequences are not always bad. People could vote on arbitrary things all day, but if there's no reason for it, then it's pointless again.
If there's no risk in what people do, there's less excitement. This does not need to be life and death risk, although in quests this is often the case. There should be some sort of thrill over what the protagonists are going for. 'Danger,' is an element which can drive interest into the events, and make the suggesters really think about what they need to have the character do. Something BAD could happen. Things are important and serious now, my input could have negative repercussions!
Some people weigh the negative and positive consequences on their own. Some people use tabletop mechanics with dice, and/or structured tables full of information. Some just use logic. None of these are 'right' or 'wrong' but these are an important element that can really hurt you if you do not take them into consideration.
Consequences can be very damaging if you aren't using the right amount of Clarity. Make sure and be clear with the audience as to the amount of risk that is held in your actions, unless you really just want whatever that is going to happen be a surprise.
Ultimately: Try not to punish your readers for being a part of your quest. If something is lost, the main thing that matters is that they got an opportunity to try and protect or save the element that was lost. If there was not an opportunity, make sure they know why.
If someone is constantly 'hurt' for being a part of something they enjoy(ed), they may eventually give up.

Conclusion
Questing is easy to start. It is extremely difficult to do effectively. Storytelling is a long treacherous road. If you really work and put your heart into it, it will show. You better be enjoying it, and likely other people will enjoy it to.
You're going to mess up, but there are few mistakes that are irreparable. So work your ass off and keep an open mind and an open ear and you might create something you're proud of.

Thank you, I hope this helps someone.
>>
No. 46454 ID: bdb886

>>356223
>Co-creation

I advise against it. Unless you and the artist really, really click, either one of you could drop and then the whole thing is toast.
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No. 46455 ID: d79ace
File 132243724005.jpg - (62.61KB , 380x414 , kansas.jpg )
46455

>>356254
this is gonna be hard then
>>
No. 46456 ID: f72f26

from my experience team projects have always been superior to solo ones
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No. 46457 ID: 6ce7a3

>>356236

That was an interesting and informative read, thank you for sharing.
>>
No. 46458 ID: d79ace
File 132244278028.jpg - (18.76KB , 265x235 , the unrevolutionary adventures of apathy man.jpg )
46458

even if my art looks like this?
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No. 46459 ID: 453e62

>>356258
depends, is that a person holding a ball with a stick figure in it? if so then yes it's fine.
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No. 46460 ID: d79ace

>>356258
It was supposed to be a belt, but baby steps I guess
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No. 46461 ID: 453e62

>>356260
WAY too tall for a belt. be more like fancy corset.
>>
No. 46462 ID: d79ace
File 132244876894.jpg - (196.33KB , 535x625 , goddamn.jpg )
46462

>>356261
fuck it, i'm just doing a text quest.
>>
No. 46464 ID: 453e62

>>356262
got some more advice for you. give the suggesters a goal. right now you basically have "here is a guy in a place, what do?"
that never nets any good suggestions. you made this big intro, about how all this crazy shit happens when he is asleep, then have us play him while awake.
>>
No. 46540 ID: d60822

>>356262
Alternately, just draw smaller belts. Or do simple stuff. Look at the image at the top of this thread. That's good art, because it represents its contents well.
>>
No. 46557 ID: 2c1edf
File 132276828339.png - (17.85KB , 839x501 , Immaginere.png )
46557

art for your quest: used paint
>>
No. 46563 ID: 0448b9

>>356357
Hey that actually looks pretty nice.
>>
No. 46594 ID: 784dcc

It's not quite about running a quest, but what's the etiquette about use of outside knowledge to inform suggestions? It appears that Real-World-Experience is almost always fair game, but Other-Quest-Knowledge is not.
>>
No. 46598 ID: b6edd6

>>356394
I don't know how standard it is, but that is generally my stance on outside knowledge. I think that is especially important in crossover fight quests like BattleQuest, because knowing your enemy is half a significant portion of the battle.

The difference is that life knowledge is knowledge that something happens in general (such as explosions being deadlier in confined spaces), whereas knowledge from other quests is about specific characters/factions (such as knowing the strengths and weaknesses of Astranian weaponry).
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No. 47036 ID: 210977

>>356394

what, you mean metagaming?
>>
No. 47041 ID: 784dcc

Yes, that- thing is we aren't actually the characters, 99% of the time.
>>
No. 47331 ID: 6192b7

Hm. I'm currently puzzling over whether using my vector-art program of choice to create drawings from scratch for each update in a theoretical potential quest would be better or worse than simply taking advantage of my ability to use moderately detailed posable templates.

On one hand, the first option has the potential for much more visually differing updates, and potentially better art. But I know it would take me much longer on a single image, and that it would also have a much larger potential to be of varying artistic quality.

The second option offers the most consistent quality, and update speed after the first drawing of any object or character would also be much more consistent. However, it would have a larger potential to look bland to the readers if each update was essentially copy-pasted and posed, regardless of any gloss.

There is a third option, too, in that I could use the second style except in special situations wherein I might use the first. Things like important updates, cool moments, that sort of thing. However, the lack of consistency might be jarring to some, and if the potential to just use the second style is there, the first style would likely be in rare use.

Personally, I fall more naturally into the second, since I find that it is much easier to achieve poses and things with the templates as opposed to my more detailed styles. I'd probably use that in the end, since I don't think anyone really cares and I'd rather posting was fun and quick as opposed to laborious (even if the potential image quality might be higher), but it's good to see what people might think.
>>
No. 47332 ID: 453e62

>>357131
he have had several vector art guys. and they have all been nice.
>>
No. 47337 ID: d0c83a

>>357131 For your reference, here are some quests made with vectors.

http://tgchan.org/wiki/Panzermensch made in flash 8 or something
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Gridlock
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Dungeon_Game made with overpriced software.
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/graveyard/res/224034.html

http://tgchan.org/wiki/Bromeliad 's quests had a vector-like style, but were actually done with the help of the polygonal lasso.
>>
No. 47346 ID: 1444d5

>>357137
>vectors
Unless you're talking specifically about manually tracing or drawing an image (i.e. laying out each shape by hand) a vector is just a specific method of storing an image file created using strokes, generally from a Wacom pad or the like. I'm sure there are plenty of quest authors who own one, maybe the majority, though many may choose to use them with raster-based programs.
>>
No. 47349 ID: 6192b7

>>357146
There are actually specific vector art programs out there, such as inkscape, that basically work entirely without raster images. Basically, that means they allow you to work with and draw scalable, rotatable shapes and that sort of thing. It's a fairly different process to opening paint or photoshop and just doing straight-up layered drawings.
>>
No. 47365 ID: 1444d5

>>357149
And then you have Coreldraw and the like, which take tablet input and turn it into strokes (vectors). Inkscape and Illustrator can also do this (as can Photoshop to a limited extent). Hence the distinction I drew between manually plotted vector graphics (essentially technical drawing) and storing of strokes as vectors.
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No. 47592 ID: 9c7c3b

So let's talk about "plot armor".

What's everyone's stance on it? Strictly from a reader's perspective, I feel that it's a terrible thing. Most characters are simply regular people, not godlike damage-avoiders. It gets rather boring when a character escapes a situation with little to no injury. Most of the suspense comes from the threat of serious injury, and when THAT'S not there, what's the point?

I like to think that, in my quests, there is no such thing as plot armor. If the suggesters make the right stupid decisions, characters WILL die. I have no qualms over ending a quest prematurely because, say, the people said to hug a violent burning Nazi. Am I in the wrong?
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No. 47601 ID: b88147
File 132472263807.jpg - (54.89KB , 365x450 , 210039-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-R.jpg )
47601

so i have a question, i know there are picture quests and picture with text quests and just plain text quests. And i've seen some quests with picture and audio-

but could there be a quest where it was just audio? and the text could be the readable version? Would that be an interesting idea?
>>
No. 47602 ID: 453e62

>>357401
you would need to have a VERY nice voice, like the narrator for Bastion.
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No. 47604 ID: 51d399
File 132474116839.jpg - (15.58KB , 238x320 , tears.jpg )
47604

>>357402
Oh yes. If any of you have amazing voices, feel free to try this.

Bastion was amazing
>>
No. 47605 ID: bfe7b2

bite does an audio quest. neo sex mall is now an audio quest
>>
No. 47613 ID: 9893e9

>>357392 
This is effectively why The Dungeon Crawlers has multiple characters with the ability to interact with the suggesters. I don't think there's any real fun to a quest where the main character is invincible simply because they're the main character - quests run based on user suggestion, and if poor suggestions have no negative consequences there's no reason to actually think your suggestions out. With that said, having three "main" characters (Mark, Lin, Neena) means that I don't have to bring the entire project to a halt should the players decide to make Mark try to hug a Lich or something later on. 

I do think leniency should be provided sometimes, if only to give a waning that certain courses of action are inadvisable in the future. I don't think you should have your main character bumrush a horde or ogres and win just because "bumrush that horde of ogres" was the only suggestion provided and you don't want to end your quest prematurely, but while fatality should always be a threat for the main characters it's just as effective sometimes to have a character injured or knocked out by stupidity as long as there's repurcussions to their stupidity beyond the character waking up and going "shit, that hurt. Time to kill some more monsters." Perhaps a bad guy who the players had a genuine shot at killing gets away as a result. Perhaps a friend is seriously injured saving them and won't be around to help in the next chapter as a result. Maybe with the main character unconscious, the ogres pushed forwards and destroyed a shack that the suggesters would have found important information in. However you do it, there are plenty of ways to punish the suggesters without killing the main character. 

However, in situations where fatality is a possibility, I think its equally important to make sure the suggesters understand that they're in a serious situation and need to suggest seriously. If Mark were to go to a fancy dinner hosted by a noble later in the quest, ordered a soup before the main course at the suggesters' request, and was then shot dead by the noble's guards on the spot because the noble in question secretly hates people who eat soup at his palace, then the subsequent cites of a cheap death would be entirely justified. However, were Mark to overhear a conversation on the way to the palace where one peasant told another "Have you ever been to one of Baron Baronicus' dinners? Motherfucker's crazy! Frank asked for a soup and he shot him in the chest!" and then the suggesters STILL insisted on ordering soup, then the same couldn't be said. It certainly doesn't have to be that overt - a few skulls outside a cave or a few hanged men in a city square should be enough for most suggesters to catch on to the fact that respectively, there's something dangerous in the cave and that town's guards mean business. 

For example, Chapter Three of the Dungeon Crawlers ended with a fight against two Orcs, a fight Mark ultimately won. However, I took effort to emphasize the fact that the first blow against one of the Orcs, an overhead downwards chop with an elven sword that a character had complimented for it's craftsmenship back in chapter two, only cut partway into the target's shoulder and barely phased him. One of the next attacks resulted in the sword getting stuck in the target's arm as he laughed. Mark won the fight, but the whole scene drove home the point that Mark is barely a match for a pair of unarmed Orcish hooligans, and that's with him catching one off guard and getting assistance from his partner on the other. Should the suggesters still then choose to fight a group of several armed Orc warriors head-on later in the quest after that sequence, the consequence is on them. 

Basically, I agree wholeheartedly that giving your ptotagonist's plot armor is a very sloppy move. Choices an consequences are the basis of a quest, so as long as the suggesters are made aware that the situation is dangerous there's no reason why failure to adhere to common sense SHOULDN'T result in an appropriate punishment.
>>
No. 47621 ID: c891d3

>>357392
Depends on what kind of quest you're writing. Who says you need the threat of death to build suspense?
>>
No. 47631 ID: 5ae6c5

>>357421
Exactly.

There are things that can be more painful than simply ending with a "Game Over" and definitely more interesting to play out.

For instance: In Golem Quest, the main character is Mordre, a sentient golem. As the quest advanced, we learned that sentient golems were viewed as enders of civilizations, and so made up a story about being a mage remotely controlling the golem.

As time passed, the fear of this secret coming to light was an ever-present fear and worry. Despite the fact that at this point Mordre was, essentially, unbeatable, we all still suggested and worked around this fear of being discovered.

Death is not the threat you should use.

Loss is much, much better.
>>
No. 47634 ID: a9ba96

>>357431
This as well. Though I believe death should be a possibility, especially for blatant disregard of common sense in dangerous situations, there are usually much more interesting ways to puish failure. BAD END should only be reserved for the most fatal of fuck-ups.
>>
No. 47635 ID: 7290ea
File 132477997813.png - (12.81KB , 441x605 , smoke.png )
47635

I think a much more important reason to have more than one character, even main character, is that interactions between people are what keeps quests approachable and understandable. Suggesters don't have much experience fighting dragons, managing empires, repairing spacecraft or exploring ancient temples to forgotten gods... but every single one of us has cheered up a friend, chastened an acquaintance, given orders, and fallen in love.

Personal interaction between characters gives us access to their fundamentally human inner workers, and no matter how weird their worlds are, that much will keep us grounded.

Plot armor is just part of storytelling, and no number of additional protagonists will make it hurt less when a favorite character is injured or killed. Suggestions are just that: Suggestions. It's neither cheap nor inauthentic to have a character pause, uncertain... and if everybody still wants her to jump into the pit then it's always more interesting if there's something dangerous down there that she may be able to deal with, than if she simply falls to her death.

It may not be on the map. It may not be the way the story was supposed to go. It's infinitely more interactive and more rewarding than either of those.
>>
No. 47641 ID: 1854db

>>357435
When should plot armor end, then?
>>
No. 47643 ID: c891d3

>>357441
I'm pretty sure it's completely impossible to come up with a hard-and-fast rule.
>>
No. 47644 ID: 7290ea

>>357441
When the plot demands it.

In a non-interactive story, all injury and death is meaningful. If tragedy is arbitrary and unfair, that should speak to the unfairness of the situation that characters inhabit and either provide or crush their particular motivation to change. Every action and decision should drive the narrative.

In an ideal interactive story, the same things hold true. Try to find meaning in every suggestion, select the options best suited to moving the story forward, and do everything you can to protect your characters from an aimless, plotless existence.

If that involves tragic events, so be it.
>>
No. 47722 ID: b88147

>>357444
i've never felt so inspired to do crazy things to my characters
>>
No. 48607 ID: 459534

Wanted to run something by you fellas and see what you thought, and this seems as good a place as any to do it.

Would it be a good idea to have a thread where suggesters can talk to Quest authors and ask them questions about themselves and their work? Something in the same vein as Inside the Quest, I mean, but with the questions being directed towards authors instead of characters. Questions like "What got you into quests in the first place?", "I noticed the death of close friends shows up a lot in your quests. Is that deliberate?", and "Which of your quests are you most proud of, personally?" could be asked, either directed toward specific authors or toward any author who feels like answering.

I tried to think of threads that already served this purpose, but none came up. The closest matches were this thread and the various quest discussion threads, but neither quite seems to fit the bill (this thread is dedicated to advice on running quests, with occasional interruptions like this one, and the quest discussions are dedicated to...well...the discussion of individual quests and their contents).

What do you think?
>>
No. 48613 ID: 72b600

>>358407
I think that could be pretty cool. "Ask the authors" would be fun, especially if people responded with author avatar pictures.
>>
No. 48623 ID: 87fa55

Why not ask in the appropriate questdis thread? Or is it meant to be more... chatty? Less every-word-is-immutable-canon-so-be-very-careful?
>>
No. 48628 ID: 0a1dbb

>>358423
sounds like more a get to know the author personally sort of things, but i'd think that's a bad idea... some authors you just don't want to konw.
>>
No. 48636 ID: 82e5f4

The closest thread to what you've described here was Behind the Quest. It didn't last long.

Also, author avatars are the worst form of attention whoring since trip codes and you're a bad person for liking them.
>>
No. 48639 ID: 0db2fd

>>358428
If they're just open questions then that's not a big deal. It could be interesting. I'm a whore so I love people to ask me about anything.
>>
No. 48659 ID: 459534

>>358423
>Or is it meant to be more... chatty? Less every-word-is-immutable-canon-so-be-very-careful?
More or less. Sort of a mix between a convention panel and the buddy-buddy conversation that takes place at a kitchen table. The questions could be formal (like the examples I gave) or informal, whichever floats the asker's boat. The same goes for the answers and the conversation in general. Hopefully it would get some interesting conversations started and, of course, satiate our curiosity. Who knows? Maybe it'll even lead to some useful brainstorming and the trading of ideas between authors who ordinarily wouldn't be in touch with one another.

>>358428
>sounds like more a get to know the author personally sort of things
That's the idea. :)

>but i'd think that's a bad idea... some authors you just don't want to konw.
No one would be forced to answer any questions. If you're asked a question that you don't want to answer you can just ignore it. Or you can flat out say "I'd rather not answer that, if you don't mind."

>>358436
This has been tried before? If it has and it didn't turn out well, that could be a problem. I'll leave it to the veteran members here to decide whether or not making the thread would be a good idea. Though I would like to point out that the success or failure of the thread would probably depend on having authors willing to participate in it, and that there may be more willing participants now than there were when Behind the Quest ran.

Oh, and I did think of one potential problem with the idea. Depending on the questions that are asked, it's possible that ordinarily taboo subjects (religion, politics, yaddayadda) could come up. I call this a potential problem because this place seems bizarrely well-mannered for an internet community (seriously, how'd that happen?) and there's a fair chance that the people here would be mature enough to restrain themselves from criticizing or arguing against any stated religious or political belief that they disagree with, even if it's something as heinous as "Babies are an important part of this nutritious breakfast!". Well, beyond saying something like "I disagree, but that's cool. You keep doing your thing.", or something like that, I suppose.

Or we could just forbid the discussion of things like that, though I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that. These touchy subjects often play an integral role in our lives and help us determine "who we are", so much so that knowledge of a person's positions, thoughts, and feelings regarding these subjects can give us deep insight into said person's mind and personality. A level of insight unavailable by other means.

But then, I suppose the preservation of peace can be more important than interpersonal insight.

Gah! I'm rambling.


What are your thoughts about the proposed thread so far?
>>
No. 48664 ID: 459534

Or, to simplify things a bit, do you think it's a Good Idea or a Bad Idea?
>>
No. 48665 ID: 6fa47e

>>358459
I'm all for it, but I think that it'd fizzle out pretty quickly. It's worth a shot, though! Better to have tried and failed than to have failed to try, ect ect.
>>
No. 48666 ID: 0a1dbb

dunno, nah- probably fizzle again.
>>
No. 48668 ID: 0a1dbb

>>328726

yep, found that thing that was similar
>>
No. 48711 ID: 459534

>>358468
That does seem awfully similar. I could say that the proposed thread would be more oriented towards getting to know the quest authors, but that may be a negligible difference.

Still, I'd like to at least give it a shot. Which leaves me with two obvious and potentially stupid questions: How do I make a thread, and what could be done about a title card?
>>
No. 48714 ID: 0a1dbb

>>358511
run it past one of the elder anons here, lawyerdog would give you his opinion and since he's been on the board so long he'll most likely know how it will be

If you do start this up i wish you the best of luck
>>
No. 48750 ID: 87fa55

Call me crazy, but I don't think you need to go through a committee to make a damn thread on an image board. Do what you want, within the rules. If it sucks, it'll fall off the front page. No big deal.
>>
No. 48768 ID: 82e5f4

>>358511

How to make a thread: Exactly the same way as you post in a thread normally, except not as a reply to something. Just go to the board you want to post the thread in and act as if you want to reply to the board itself.

As far as a title image, welp, that's up to you to sort out. As long as it's not horrific, it'll work, but an on-topic image is always nice. You can either submit an image from your computer or post one from a URL. You can post an image from your computer with the choose file button below the message box. If you have a URL for an image already on the internet you like and want to use as your OP pic, however, paste the URL into the Embed field and making sure "Image URL" is selected.

Hit the "Submit" button next to the subject button, and you're done!
>>
No. 48828 ID: 459534

>>358568
Thanks! One last question before I make it, though. Considering that I more or less never draw, ever, and my attempts at "art" are appropriately crappy, would anyone mind if I just used clipart for the OP pic?
>>
No. 48835 ID: 459534

On second thought, it's probably better to just go with it and stop pelting everybody-and-his-mother with questions. So nevermind that last bit. Let's see what happens...

*crosses fingers*
>>
No. 49082 ID: b82a1d

Another very simple question for a different Anon: is there a formatting guide anywhere? Like how to do things like italics and bold in a post?
>>
No. 49083 ID: 9c7c3b

It's all here. You should probably read it all, it's a huge help.

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/news.php?p=faq
>>
No. 49744 ID: e19cdf

Hey, so further up in the thread, I saw you guys talking about character death. I'd like to know what you think about the way I've approached it - I have informed the questers that it is very possible to fuck up and get the protagonist killed, but if that happens, the quest will sort of be "reset" to the point where they made the decision that got her killed, and they will have to figure out a different choice that'll have a better outcome.
What do you guys think of that? Will that just frustrate readers, or could it be a good way to keep stakes high without risking ending the quest sooner than I'd like to?
>>
No. 49745 ID: ed57e8

>>359544
it's not the death itself, but the consequences. that would give no consequence for actions as we can just try again until we win.
>>
No. 49761 ID: 78411a

>>359545
Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. Okay, I'll probably rethink that aspect, then.
Also, in this thread, would it be alright to ask for just advice specific to your quest? Like, I feel like it would really help if you guys could point out any problems you notice (or potential problems you could see me falling into). If that would be too much trouble, though, no worries!
>>
No. 49762 ID: 78411a

Oops, just realized I forgot to mention, I write FudgeQuest.
>>
No. 49765 ID: 9c7c3b

>>359561
Yeah, here's the place to ask for advice.

Though I don't think you need it. For a first quest, you're doing superbly!
>>
No. 49784 ID: e19cdf

>>359565
Wow, really? That's great to hear, thank you! OwO
>>
No. 49827 ID: 76f1e3
File 133064958195.png - (85.23KB , 640x480 , example.png )
49827

Quick linings of the main char done in 10 mins.

How does it look? We're hoping to pull out quick updates.
>>
No. 49830 ID: 50e7bc

>>359627
That's do just fine for a quest! It's more about the writing than it is the art, anyway. Good luck!
>>
No. 49838 ID: 1854db

>>359627
The neck looks too thick in that central example... but yeah, that's good enough for questing.
>>
No. 49934 ID: 3e4fed

I've been looking into starting up my old Quest again. I got a tablet and have been working with that lately to see how much it changes my style, but I am more concerned about what happens if I just start where I left off. It's hard to imagine that even the most avid reader can remember all that happened so far considering its last update was in 2010.

Should I take the time to go over what happened previously or just let the archives speak for themselves?
>>
No. 49935 ID: 25d645

>>359734
A recap won't hurt
>>
No. 49966 ID: ed57e8

yeah link the archive and give a small recap.
>>
No. 49974 ID: d84d24
File 133107422363.png - (280.23KB , 1665x564 , sergals copy.png )
49974

Protip: Make a basic model sheet that you can refer to when you're drawing your quest. Even if you're doing something in a simplistic style, this helps your characters to remain consistent. Even if it's something simple like I have here for the sergal patterns
>>
No. 50040 ID: 551d90

I've put in a good... entire day on this here so far now:
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/391158.html

So far, I think it's been going pretty well, but there's a basic formula that has and will continue to come up:
- Suggesters choose a path.
- The newly entered room is displayed.
- There's an item in it (which will be promptly collected).
- Time to reconfigure the character and start messing around.

Those middle steps are kind of bugging me. I've pretty much written myself into the corner of going long form like I did with the backpack (show room in an update, work on a second update for after the item has been corrected, either toss it up cutscene style or in response to someone going "get that item!" while I was drawing), or the ultra-brief mode I did with the mirror (draw the room, "so here's a new room, there was an item in it, it's in our inventory now, where next?")

The first method bugs me because, well, double author posts. The second though makes me feel a bit like I'm glossing over too much, and if I habitually do it, people will lose track of, well, everything there is to keep track of.

Anyone have a better way to handle this than just, usually going with the quick version, going the long now and then as a refresher?
>>
No. 50045 ID: ed57e8

a cut-scene is perfectly acceptable around here. we like them as long as they never result in YOU LOSE for something that would of been prevented if they were told to by the suggesters.
>>
No. 50049 ID: 1854db

The long one is better!
>>
No. 50073 ID: a2853b

>>359774
That sergal model is off-model.
It's too human, try to scale back the anthropomorphism.
'Lean, Mean, Killing Machines' is one of the main cues when feeling out a new sergal design. Less emphasis on the musculature, more emphasis on the bone structure and 'angled' nature of the sergal form.
Also, too much ass.
>>
No. 50081 ID: 1854db

>>359873
Are you familiar with old age sergals at all?
>>
No. 50091 ID: 2563d4

>>359873
Also, it's missing the tits.
>>
No. 50092 ID: cf49fc
File 133147149682.jpg - (255.14KB , 1024x745 , ___Seriously meatbags.jpg )
50092

>>359891
Yeah. No.

Model is mostly okay.
In this case, you gave em a little too much ass.
>>
No. 50123 ID: 9cb4b3

>>359873
It looks pretty OK to me. I mean sure, they could be sleeker/lankier I guess? But they look more like sergals than 99 percent of drawn sergals out there.

The base of the tail could be thicker I guess, but that's really the only thing I can see actually "off-model" different here. I don't think there should be a question of butt so much as fluff upon the butt.
>>
No. 50291 ID: d79ace

>>359873
>Also, too much ass.
You sir, are cray cray.
>>
No. 50914 ID: 459534

Hey. I'm thinking about running a quest in the moderately-distant future, and I'd like some advice about how to prepare for it. I've got some specific questions prepared, but I'd gladly accept any additional wisdom you'd like to throw my way (provided it hasn't already been mentioned in this thread). Anyway, to the questions:

1. What drawing medium would be a good choice for my first quest (pencil/paper, MSPaint/mouse, tablet/pen, etc.)? Keep in mind that I'd rather not put much money, if any, into this--especially since I know neither how it'll turn out nor whether I'll ever try it again--and that I virtually zero experience as an artist.

2. Between now and the start of my quest, what would be a good way to practice my drawing (assuming there's any more to practicing than "grab paper, draw shit"), and what aspects of drawing do you think a beginner like me (who has trouble even keeping his doodles consistent) ought to focus on if he hopes to develop almost-bearable art before starting a quest?

3. What would be a good way for me to practice writing and dialog?

4. How long would you suggest I make my first quest? I'm afraid of burning out early, but I suspect the ideas and stories I'd most like to try would wind up taking quite a while to execute/tell.

5. What size scope would you advise my first quest be? One of the potential stories I'm playing with would take place on an entire planet, but I'm afraid that would be too ambitious--certainly for a first quest. Unless I made it a small planet, I guess.

Thoughts or advice for an aspiring, dream-drunk newborn?
>>
No. 50916 ID: 459534

*newbie
Damn ninja autocorrect.

Oh, and I should probably mention that "the moderately-distant future" is when I'd like to start the quest, not the time in which the quest is set. I'm thinking a handful of months or so. Is that enough time to practice and prepare?
>>
No. 50918 ID: 5be5e7

Thoughts? Read this entire topic. People have given a lot of answers here, and they still apply.
1. Until you know how to draw, stick to pencil and paper. If you can't make it look good without those, then adding colors wont help much.
2. Smooth circles, equal squares, equal triangles. Learn at least 2 point perspective. Anatomy. Put an apple, orange, and banana on a plate, then draw the plate and what is on it.
3. Read. Don't read those children books, they aren't really well made. Remember the questions: What, why, when. Every character uses those. Do at least a page background for every major character. Make sure you know motives(more than 'cause I'm mad). Practice timelines. If people have your character do nothing for awhile, the world shouldn't stand still. Learn to describe settings. Make sure to always feature atleast two senses.
4. Keep it simple. Save grand ideas for later quests if you can finish what you start.
5. A neighborhood. 50 npcs or less. Maybe a background for a character you want in a later quest.
>>
No. 50926 ID: 459534

Thanks for the advice! Though I worry a bit about finding a way to upload pencil art. Maybe the library has a scanner I can use...

One more parting question: Any advice about making characters visually appealing, or any other advice regarding the visual design of characters?
>>
No. 50928 ID: 54b362

>>360726
Woah, hang on. Pencil and paper is great, but you are going to have to get a scanner if you want to keep a regular update schedule.

Plenty of great quests have been done using a mouse or trackpad. Just keep the art simple and don't attempt anything too crazy to draw and it'll be fine.

Appealing characters have a distinct style of dress or body that makes them easy to recognize. After a while, you may want to do a "paper doll"- Basically, post a template of your character and have people draw some clothes on them. It's one of tgchan's favorite pastimes, and, well, guaranteedreplies.jpg.
>>
No. 50938 ID: 459534

>>360728
Good advice, and thank you. If I'm going to draw my updates with a mouse, then I suppose I ought to be practicing with one.

Thanks again!
>>
No. 51443 ID: 75a472

>>360714
>1. What drawing medium would be a good choice for my first quest (pencil/paper, MSPaint/mouse, tablet/pen, etc.)? Keep in mind that I'd rather not put much money, if any, into this--especially since I know neither how it'll turn out nor whether I'll ever try it again--and that I virtually zero experience as an artist.

I found a mouse to be "really hard" to use, but I was really used to drawing on P&P. You don't have to learn how to draw if the purpose of getting the skill is to do a quest. You can do really simple characters and be totally good for quest. I would look to cartooning/comics (like, joke-a-day style, not superhero comics) to learn some thing about how to do your characters. I mean, if you look around, a lot of popular quests use simple characters drawn with a mouse. Rectangle bodies look better than stick men. For a mouse, perhaps a vector drawing program will work better for you. You use shapes and lines instead of freehanding a thing. Sai has a "lineart" layer that does this. Breaking down the picture into the compoent shapes is what is most important about doing the arts.

>2. Between now and the start of my quest, what would be a good way to practice my drawing (assuming there's any more to practicing than "grab paper, draw shit"), and what aspects of drawing do you think a beginner like me (who has trouble even keeping his doodles consistent) ought to focus on if he hopes to develop almost-bearable art before starting a quest?

I sort of answered this above. Get a program, get a mouse, and pratice with it until you can make something that looks like something. Do character sheets (turnarounds) for your main characters.

>3. What would be a good way for me to practice writing and dialog?

Focus on how the things you read are written. Look for similarities in style that define the things you think sound or read better than things you think are sort of weak/sucky.

>4. How long would you suggest I make my first quest? I'm afraid of burning out early, but I suspect the ideas and stories I'd most like to try would wind up taking quite a while to execute/tell.

Do something maybe relatively short. Plan out a classic story arc (rising action, climax, denounment) and make certain you can stick to a schedule enough to actually follow through and finish. That being said, a lot of first quests are extensive, but I'd still recommend doing something simple first. It will help you work out the kinks in using the medium.

>5. What size scope would you advise my first quest be? One of the potential stories I'm playing with would take place on an entire planet, but I'm afraid that would be too ambitious--certainly for a first quest. Unless I made it a small planet, I guess.

This is really irrelevant and comes down to a style choice more than anything. A dramatic tale can take place entirely in one city or village, and a boring story can cover a planet. I would plan something simple to start with.
>>
No. 51453 ID: 459534

>>361243

Didn't expect to get more advice, and very detailed advice at that! Thanks!
>>
No. 51459 ID: ebe13c

>>360726
>One more parting question: Any advice about making characters visually appealing, or any other advice regarding the visual design of characters?
Dem silhouettes, brah. If you draw your characters in silhouette, they should be easily recognizable and distinguishable from one another. Check out Lunar quest, Maze of the Heart, Oblitus, and Fudge Quest (just to pick a few on the first couple pages) for examples of characters with iconic silhouettes.

Color also helps, if you're planning on doing the quest in color. Every color is associated with certain emotions and personality traits, so if you can give your characters an iconic color then that's a plus. Google is your friend there. Lilac is an obvious example of that, but I'd say unless you're going very stylized like that one, they shouldn't be monochrome. Complementary colors go well together, but keep in mind that red and green are very similar in intensity, purple and yellow are very different, and orange and blue are in the middle. The closer they are in intensity, the more sparing you should be.
>>
No. 51503 ID: 459534

>>361259
Sound advice. Thank you!
>>
No. 51714 ID: 76b862

Um, I asked what "fap" meant and some guys thought I was a troll. Is it taboo to ask what it means? I feel like a idiot for asking, but Don't want to hurt any more people's feelings. So what does fap mean?
>>
No. 51715 ID: 7c31d2

>>361514
Masturbation. I have no idea why it means that though
>>
No. 51716 ID: 76b862

>>361515
Thats what it means?! Oh gross! Thanks for letting me know, I still don't know why I got the reaction I did though.
>>
No. 51717 ID: 78c391

Because they are determent to "Feed" you and turn you into an actual troll. I for one enjoy your adorable typing style.
>>
No. 51719 ID: 76b862

>>361517
Thank you Platformasaur. I enjoy your cute little umbrellas! ^.V.^
>>
No. 51720 ID: 256d52

>>361515

I think it's supposed to be the sound it makes.

Same story with the other one.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what's an appropriate level of detail to use for the backgrounds? I've been slowly gearing up to do a quest but backgrounds take me forever.
>>
No. 51721 ID: 76b862

>>361520
Oh? You're starting up a quest? I wish you luck! I'm sorry I don't have any advice for backgrounds for you, but I just wanted to let you know I'll support your quest when it starts. ^.V.^ Have fun!
>>
No. 51722 ID: f2c010

>>361514
>>361516
>>361517
>>361521

This is the quest advice thread, not the general advice thread. Please use a different thread that is not the quest advice thread to ask questions not related to quest advice. Especially please do not post "I don't have any quest advice :D" in the quest advice thread.
>>
No. 51724 ID: 2d04eb

Tenyoken, this is getting ridiculous. People keep telling you, "Stop being so goddamn annoying". They even write you lists of exactly what you're doing wrong. Your response is invariably, "Oh I didn't mean to offend anybody," and then you continue doing the exact things they told you explicitly to stop doing. This is getting ridiculous. STOP. Stop using those retarded smilies you made up, stop putting an email in the email field, stop roleplaying a sergal. Occasionally we are tolerant of (but would prefer not to deal with) people who aren't quest authors using names and trips, but in your case stop doing that too. I don't care what your intention is, I don't care if there are maybe two or three people who are pandering and enabling you like platformasaur there, stop doing it.
>>
No. 51726 ID: 25d645

>>361520
Well see that's a catch 22. If you try to put too much detail in the background any mistakes you make are easy to spot. Too little and you won't be able to establish the setting. Your best bet is to just put enough that the reader can tell where the character is and try to supplement it with text. Unless you're really good at drawing backgrounds then by all means go for it.
>>
No. 51727 ID: 2fe09b

>>361520
>what's an appropriate level of detail to use for the backgrounds?

Depends. What do you want players to focus on? Draw with detail what you want to draw their eye to. Say there's a range of mountains you want them to explore eventually - put it in the background of several shots if the geography makes it feasable, and draw them well. If you just want to establish the biome that everyone is in, you don't need to be terribly detailed.
>>
No. 51728 ID: b85f8c

>>361524
I gotta agree with this.

Just like 5 minutes ago I was totally certain Tenyoken was a troll, but apparently there are people that are just... like that? Disturbing.
>>
No. 51733 ID: 58a693

>>361520
It is totally ok to completely halfass backgrounds. You want what the players are meant to focus on to be clear. As long as you can tell what it is supposed to be, it's fine.
>>
No. 51734 ID: 953355

1. Tenyoken, maybe if you don't set an email so that your name isn't highlighted in blue people will stop complaining about it.

2. Everyone who whines about people setting names on an imageboard, shut up.

3. In the future only ask about questing in this thread.
>>
No. 51736 ID: 04085c

>>361534
Ok, sorry. I just didn't know what to ask. Next time I post here, it'll be about quests.....except for this post of course, but I just wanted to let you know I understand.
>>
No. 51814 ID: 5be5e7

>>361520
The more detail you use, the harder it will be for you to make your closer details legible. Keep the background simple for now. Unless you know how to draw scenery really well, people aren't going to like it.
>>
No. 51817 ID: 519ce1

>>361520
On the subject of backgrounds: I'd also say that if you're going to have certain areas your characters return to several times, draw the background first and save it separately (with layers, if you can)! That has been super helpful for me and it makes things run much more smoothly.
>>
No. 52618 ID: 09e5bf

Generally, how important is it to have well defined stats in an action type quest?
>>
No. 52619 ID: 551d90

>>362418

That depends. If you mean in the sense of working out hard numbers and rules for handling action stuff, I'd say it's not all that important.

If you're talking in the sense of establishing early on exactly what characters are capable of before throwing them into dangerous situations though, that's preeeeetty important.
>>
No. 52620 ID: 09e5bf

>>362419
Alright. So basically, listing stats is a good idea, but they don't have to reflect actual existing numbers that mean something, as much as they need to represent concepts.
>>
No. 54757 ID: b9749e

Exactly. A statline like "Strong, Tough, Slow" or "Quick, Smart, Crippled Leg" works great. It doesn't need to be more specific than that.
>>
No. 55145 ID: d6ae01

Oh I forgot to post this bit of useful advice.

If you want to get a feel for how strong your characterization is, one way I think you could do it is to do one of those cliche "OH NO EVERYONE SWITCHED BODIES" things, and then see if people can tell who is who without resorting to exaggerating singular character traits (Something even high end stuff ends up doing).

Another is the Plinkin Star Wars Episode 1 Challenge. In his movie review he made a point of asking people to describe various characters from episode IV and episode I, and to do so without mentioning their appearance. Obviously, they had a much easier time doing episode IV.
>>
No. 55212 ID: eea689

The problem I have is...how am I supposed to try to run a quest when I have story and character ideas, but can't draw to save my life? Even MS Paint is too advanced for me, really.
>>
No. 55214 ID: c4a1fc

>>55212
Do what Red Sands, Demons' Rage, or "Mom's Fault" do. Be all text or steal images as appropriate.
>>
No. 55344 ID: 131de9

>>55212

That works. As does making your best effort with childish scribblings. People aren't inclined to judge (so long as your sergals have cheese for heads and not hotdogs).
>>
No. 55460 ID: e3f578

If you got a tiny phone that has minor tablet or doodling functionality, just make some tiny ass doodles to accompany the images. Still better than most text quests, hell, if you justify it as doodles for fun, then you probably won't get artist guilt.
>>
No. 55498 ID: 4e8344

Also, get on irc to annoumce updates and check in on the discussion.
>>
No. 55984 ID: 19c2f7
File 133942402192.jpg - (78.30KB , 736x555 , 1209217935_5372490672[1].jpg )
55984

Technically a related question I guess, so I'll put it in here. Someone else asked over on regular /tg/ but couldn't be sure it was a real response.

Are nation-builders, empire builders and other "lets rp but with Risk!' style games close enough to quests to be put on the /quest board? Or would they just go on /tg like they do over on 4chan?
>>
No. 55985 ID: 132b99

>>55984
behold The Icon.
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/src/133111975292.png
>>/quest/390930

every update we get something like this and we love it.
>>
No. 55986 ID: 73aeb7

Go for it.
>>
No. 55987 ID: 19c2f7

>>55985
Jesus, nation-builder is positively quaint and backwards compared to the complexity of this.

Alright, I'll do it. Thanks for the input guys!
>>
No. 57012 ID: 9c7334

Is a quest basically a one-PC RPG campaign, without dice?
Does it only have a label because of internet anger? Or is there something more to it?

I had it in my head to do a quest-like with 3 PCs, but then I thought it sounded too much like your standard D&D type thing.
>>
No. 57021 ID: c3c502

>>57012

Nah. It's not that cut and dry. For instance, some of them *do* have dice. And you can have more than one PC, although usually that means we only get to control one at a time and swap.
>>
No. 57025 ID: 72dd1c

I think the best description is "generally somewhere between a tabletop RPG and a collaborative fiction with one person clearly in charge." Some people have done tactical games where every suggester controls a unit on here.

Some authors makes people roll dice on the board, or else use dice without telling anybody in the background for some conflict resolution. Other people just do everything on a sort of "deciding what they think is best" method. People on 4chan used to use the first suggestion to determine the next update, but on a slower site like this that's kinda unnecessary and can lead to bad results.

Some quest authors straight up use regular pnp RPG rules too. Even if you do this, running a quest isn't the same as a pnp with one PC, because the nature of the medium means that you always have back and forth and a variety of participants that may or may not be regulars, so it tends to be more unpredictable, and also have a tendency towards ignoring or forgetting long term goals in favor of actions that are more immediately gratifying.
>>
No. 57179 ID: ff899b

I'm having trouble with my questing.
I think I have good ideas for the story, and I want to tell them in this medium, because I really enjoy reading quests myself. I've also been told I'm quite good at writing, so I guess I want to utilize that.
But I think I get frustrated by the more "Gamey" aspects I force myself to do. Puzzles and whatnot. I also can't seem to be able to draw in a loose manner, getting anal and frustrated about things. I end up with a STUPID amount of layers in Photoshop and confuse myself.

All in all, the quest quickly stops being fun for me, even though I still want to tell the story.
I suppose I want to get to the point where the quest is more character-character and character-player interaction, but I just can't seem to get there.

I think that's as best as I can explain it, so does anyone have any advice?
>>
No. 57183 ID: 4a328b

>>57179
To the first part: Don't force yourself to make it a game. People like telling the protagonist what to do in straight up stories, too!
Second part: No idea, sorry. I make a million layers too.
>>
No. 57184 ID: 0cbd11

>>57179
The first part is easy: Don't make a quest about puzzles if you hate doing puzzles. Journey Quest, which is widely recognized as one of the best quests, started off more puzzly and sort of "adventure game"-y, but Lucid realized during a maze that it was tedious instead of fun, so he just made the maze a tunnel instead. There weren't really puzzles after that.

You can cut the puzzles and do the parts you want. There are no expectations about what a quest has to include other than An Author and Suggesters.

The second part is also not that hard. I don't know how you're drawing so I can't give you specific art advice, but I would just say that you should draw no longer than 20 or 30 minutes on an update. Time yourself. Ignore anatomy errors and don't clean up your lineart.

The goal is to tell a story, not produce a masterpiece each update. I am telling you this because you said that the art is becoming a drag for you and slowing you down. I am not saying everyone should time themselves 20 minutes and no more.

It is what I do when I run quests that update in sessions, but I know it is not necessarily generally applicable advice.
>>
No. 57382 ID: aa42ad
File 134266903065.png - (12.36KB , 343x434 , Clarke2.png )
57382

So, I finally decided "Fuck it, lets do this" and started a quest on /tg/. then I found out you guys specialize in questing, and /tg/ suddenly became inundated with quests.

Anyways, I'm on thread 5 now, and I'm worried that my audience has dwindled down to like four die-hard fans. I guess other people could be lurking, but I really worry that it's become inaccessible to new people. How do you draw in new blood/generate buzz? I've been trying to keep to evening-long "sessions," but now the latest thread's become super-protracted, and I kind of have to worry about the sort of person that lurks /tg/ 24/7 waiting for the next post.

Also, you've inspired/reminded me that I should be doing more drawings, even a shitty tablet doodle from my kindle would work.

Threads so far are here: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Innocence
Yes, I'm that dude. Sorry for the spamming months ago; I've gotten better. Since you're veteran questers, I'd love for you to tear me a new one on what I've done so far.
>>
No. 57393 ID: 41b00a

>>57382
(Putting on my /tg/ trip)

The most important thing to draw in new players is accessability. If you start right into the quest from OP, people will generally hide the quest. What you want to do is start with a simple, easy to understand header:

((Old threads at www.BLAH.com, discussion at #blah @blah on IRC ))

Then you have a summary. The summary can be hard to write, but mostly, you want to give players enough information to post while making them want to catch up. Eventually, they will NEED to catch up to post, but by that time you should have enough blood to sustain you the rest of the way.
>>
No. 57394 ID: aa42ad
File 134268429523.png - (31.04KB , 372x1092 , C1nd3mspaint.png )
57394

>>57393
I've been kind of doing that. Like this?

Welcome to the Future. C:\dos\run for your life.

You are unit 08, a Clarke Engineering Platform manufactured in China by USRobotics. You work for a crappy resort in the Yukatan peninsula, Mexico. After years of operation, you're the go-to maintenance guy, repairing everything from broken AC units and pool filters to robot coworkers.

Or, you used to be. Two days ago, you woke up in a trash heap with your battery critically low and a bunch of courrupted memory files. The Recovery Wizard is working on them, but the progress bar has been stuck on 60% for a while. Everything around you is in a profound state of disrepair, and covered in plant growth. You're apparently stranded in the post-apocalypse.

Since then, you've met some of the locals, making friends with a little girl and her father, encountered (and killed) an advanced Network robot, and been shot at by a paramilitary band of humans who apparently oppose the skynet robots. But you have heard tell of a possible third faction that WON'T try to kill you on-sight. The problem is, Network and the Resistance are both looking for something in Cancun, and their leader, Joshua, needs to be informed. To this end, you've set out to Tulum, to seek resources and allies before delving into the ruins of the Sparkling City.

You also rescued two other robots from the scrap heap: Cindy, an exuberant Seraphim 288 with mild psychological scarring, and Josephine, a non-sentient doll with a lot of bootleg software. The Networked AI you recovered has been purged of the collective's influence, but there's no telling how much of it is left after the surgery, and it's still sans-body.

Previous threads: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Innocence
>>
No. 57398 ID: 7472ad

>>57394
I'd put the previous threads first, so a cursory glance makes that stand out. While some don't like to archive binge, others do, and the fact that the quest hasn't been abandoned after multiple threads alone can be a decent pull. The part# or thread# in the thread name, which you already do, also helps with that.
>>
No. 57451 ID: 4a20fa

>>57184
>You can cut the puzzles and do the parts you want.
So when you (or any other author who runs this way) set up an environment for a protagonist to stumble toward a goal, how do you make sure it has enough obstructions to actually have some interesting game in there, rather than just "go do the thing" "OK done"; and how do you make sure it's solvable (or do you just trust that ad-libbing will think of something/you can make it fun even if unwinnable)?
>>
No. 57453 ID: 4a328b

>>57451
NPCs.
>>
No. 57456 ID: 58a693

>>57451
I don't write quests that way. I also generally meticulously plan everything.

Instead of thinking of obstructions set up like gates down a hallway for a fixed plot point at the end, I think of interesting things for them to run into or encounter on the way to whatever plot points I might have, wherever those might be.

I think of things in terms of encounters, and I don't necessarily plan solutions. That's where the creativity of the medium makes it different than other similar forms of collective storytelling. I will plan things out in a loose way. Let's see if I can't think of an example:

So, let's say the plot is that there is a dungeon and the player is trying to get the treasure in it for some reason. I'll plot out a map, and populate the rooms, but I won't plan out the rooms as "keys" that unlock further progress to the other rooms, that are "locked" before then. Maybe there is a room with a rusty iron grate for a floor and a pool of acid underneath. The players might need to figure out some way to not breathe in the fumes to cross it. Or maybe they could lure a monster in there later instead of fighting it. There might be a way completely around it.

Another part could have a locked door, and there could be a key on a monster, or you could use a potion bottle and get some of that acid or jury rig a pry bar...

There could also be a shady prisoner in there, and how they approach or interact with him will determine whether he'll help them or try to backstab them if they let him go. Or they could just kill him - maybe he actually has a useful item - or just leave him completely after getting some info. So, I think it's important to think of likely outcomes, but not plan only one thing to happen, and that has to happen for the story to move forward.

You get the idea.

I am not saying puzzles are bad, but if you don't like thinking them up, you certainly don't have to. I personally like series of mutually exclusive choices that drastically alter the eventual outcome instead of just stuff to keep them from getting to the next cutscene so quick.
>>
No. 57490 ID: 4a20fa

>>57456
>I personally like series of mutually exclusive choices that drastically alter the eventual outcome instead of just stuff to keep them from getting to the next cutscene so quick.

Psh, that's not how you design cinematic AAA experiences at all! [PRESS X]

>I don't necessarily plan solutions
>So, I think it's important to think of likely outcomes, but not plan only one thing to happen

I'm not really sure how the latter can be achieved without the former, unless by the former you think I mean "plan the solution".

It's less gates-and-hallway, more vast-plain with goal over there, need to scatter crap on it so the quest is not just a boring beeline. Rooms with iron grates and acid are what I'd class as puzzles, myself.
>>
No. 57497 ID: 58a693

>>57490
I think a solution and an outcome are two different things. One implies a wrapping up of the event - you solved the room - an outcome just implies something that happened because of it - the character broke his arm. It could just be something there that they can use for later, or potentially avoid, and not necessarily intended to "solve" anything later or be "solved."

If the players find a pistol, you have to think of what they can do with it, but not what it's necessary, or an alternative for, because it's not necessarily "for" anything.

Anyway, that's nitpicky. I was intentionally using an example that is close to a sort of "Room with three levers" or "A pedestal and there are four objects under it" dungeon crawl "puzzle" rooms. My door example was probably a "puzzle" but I was more or less contrasting it with the above sort of thing.

I guess my point is, "Making shit happen" doesn't = puzzle to me. I think it's dangerous to just make shit happen without thinking about the likely consequences because you can screw up your story, but you don't need to use traps and crap like that. Depending on what it is, it isn't necessarily an obstruction that needs a solution. Players want to interact with shit you pout in front of them.

So, use more open-ended "puzzles" if you want to think of it that way. Make it rain and they have to find shelter. Make a bridge be out. Make them find a dead guy. Make them find a living guy that's going part of the way. You just scatter events on the road. I think you think of how they affect what comes later and not just make them pointless, but they can do things like set mood or reveal information or something, not necessarily hurt the player or keep him from progressing.
>>
No. 57511 ID: 4a20fa

>>57497
>Players want to interact with shit you pout in front of them.
True. Thanks.
>>
No. 57512 ID: 58a693

>>57511
Only put it in front of them instead because I can't type apparently.
>>
No. 57552 ID: 4a20fa

>>57512
Oh, I don't know.
>>/questarch/519272
I think you were right the first time. :V
>>
No. 57659 ID: 6a1ec2

The reason Ruby Quest did so well is all the puzzles and triggers and hooks were actually drawn, however sketchily, in the frame next to the phrase "Suggest Action". It worked because (a few fourth wall shenanigans aside) nothing off camera was part of the solution. No solution was guaranteed, but if there was a solution, then it could be seen even if in retrospect. There were lots of goodies for us to play with, and not a lot we were expected to know about that we could not see.

I see so many quests with just a mug shot of the character looking peeved and "OK what now?" when the fact remains that if you want questers to make suggestions, you have to give them some hint of what they can suggest. It doesn't have to be a list in the text box (though that works better than nothing at all). It can just be features drawn in the scenery. They have to be distinctive though. Never draw three identical levers and then ask /quest/ which one to pull. At the very least you must give the quest enough idle time to draw and describe the differences between the levers. This is not giving away the answer. Questers aren't moronic for needing this information before they can think of what to do. This is the one element that truly determines whether a quest will succeed or fail. Show the things we can do. Leave nothing ambiguous. Actually render the scene into which our character has been thrust.

Think of it like a low budget video game. The character is fine and dandy, but if you don't put a lot of effort into the level around them, then it's going to suck.
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No. 58678 ID: bf54a8

here's some. if your quest goes under DO NOT DELETE IT. it's impossible to tell you what went wrong if you ask, if it no longer exists.
>>
No. 58778 ID: 4183c9

>>58678
Destroy all evidence, kill all witnesses.
>>
No. 58854 ID: 252e1b

DENY EVERYTHING
>>
No. 59849 ID: d5ee6f

http://io9.com/5916970/the-22-rules-of-storytelling-according-to-pixar
>>
No. 59850 ID: 4a20fa

>>59849
See, some of this just plain doesn't work for quests:
>#3: Trying for theme is important, but you won't see what the story is actually about til you're at the end of it. Now rewrite.
No editing. No backsies. No writing the intro last. Final destination.

And to be honest
>#14: Why must you tell THIS story? What's the belief burning within you that your story feeds off of? That's the heart of it.
is the kind of axe-grinding that can make half of their stuff less bearable than charming.

Repeats a few points, too.
>>
No. 60237 ID: 1e7d43

Anybody got any advice for being a good suggester? This is *cooperative* storytelling, after all, and I want to be able to pull my share of the weight.

I figure I should try to give the author something to work with and react to--you know, something more than just "open that" or "walk that way"--but I'd love to get some more substantial advice on how to play my part as a quest player/suggester.

Anything?
>>
No. 60243 ID: 4a20fa

>>60237
* Keep it short. No, shorter than that.
* One post per update. Use questdis.
* Use questdis.
* Use questdis.
* Leave dialogue to the author.
* And images too.
But most importantly:
* You are not the centre of attention. The updates are.
>>
No. 60245 ID: d6c330

>Leave dialogue to the author
This varies a lot depending on the quest and character. Sometimes collaboratively trying to construct the dialog is half the fun!

I'd also throw out that it can help to do more than just say "do this". If you include your reason why, it can actually limit infighting to some extent (because it's easier for other suggesters to agree with your logic, or point out something you overlooked).

The trick of course is to not go overboard explaining yourself, or start arguing excessively. It's usually best to make your case and leave it, and not let yourself drawn in.
>>
No. 60246 ID: dcc905

>>59850
>axe-grinding
Clarifying the beliefs that you want to drive your story is about as much grinding axes as population control is genocide.
>>
No. 60263 ID: 39ecbe

Yeah, "be to the point and justify yourself" pretty much sums it up as far as advice to suggesters go. Trying to get cute (trying to roleplay suggestions or posting reaction images) is likely to annoy other suggesters and possibly the quest author as well (depending on the author).

Reaction images are an especial pet peeve of mine. A lot of people, me included, use images to tell at a glance when an update's happened, and reaction images add noise to the signal.

Speaking of, as a advice to authors: Please consistently use the subject line to help make your updates stand out. I've seen quests where I missed text only updates because the author didn't do that, or posted an image update and then a text only update without the subject line.
>>
No. 60517 ID: 6a1ec2

>>60243

>> Keep it short. No shorter than that.
> No shorter than that
> No shorter than what?

I think you kept it too short.
>>
No. 60523 ID: bbc0f3

>>60517
>No, shorter than that
>'shorter than short'
>>
No. 60556 ID: 4a20fa

>>60517
Punctuation: important.
>>
No. 61006 ID: e9b708

>>60245
I think the problem with most dialog suggestions is that the suggestors rarely try to make the dialog in character.

the dialog usually comes off emotionally detached from the situation at hand, and little regard is given to the characters' mannerisms

this is just my experience though
>>
No. 61011 ID: 4a20fa

>>61006
The problem with most dialogue suggestions is that most people are shit at writing dialogue.

And have watched too much anime.
>>
No. 61071 ID: e3f578

I'd like say (I think I've said it before) is that I occasionally use dialog suggestions not for the character to use, per se, but simply because I found writing the suggestion from a first person viewpoint easier, usually in a conversation, that I believe would hit some crucial point. And then I use quotes simply to differentiate my posts from myself and make it clear that I want some of the points used as dialog, but converted to how the character would say it, probably in a much sorter and emotional tone.

Again, it's just easier to suggest for a conversation that way. I have no intention of the character to say or use the whole thing. Lord knows I overdue it with all my posts. (I will apologize to any author who really hates that, and will abstain from that suggestion format if they prefer).

I would suggest that every author puts guidelines for suggestions in their questdis thread for that quest and link it in the first post of every actual quest chapter, just to set the ground rules. I know that's extra thinking for the author to do and it really would be ideally better if we just followed the general guidelines, but I believe that would work more effectively, simply because even new readers who never read these threads would immediately know what the author wants them do do suggestion wise. (I mean hell, if the suggestions for Lunar Quest were all short and to the basic point oh my god would that quest be easier to read and reference earlier plot or gameplay points in the quest, because I forget so much important stuff for that quest. I've forgetten the point in talking to all these douchebags at this point. The suggestion numbers just... make it all so screwy. I swear half the thread is the size of Sword of Ice and Fire novel and by the end of it it'll be longer than an Exalted rulebook.)
>>
No. 61374 ID: 3ebb76

When I ran TDC I would have dialog suggestions that I liked the idea behind get "filtered" through the character that was speaking. Near the beginning Mark would usually start out trying to repeat the things being said to him word for word, drift into his usual "uh"s and "umm"s a sentence in, and then interpret and paraphrase the rest of the quote he's being asked to say to the best of his ability. Later on he and other characters would just paraphrase the idea behind quotes in a more in-character way, which I think is the best way to go about it.
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No. 61863 ID: 0adde6

So... be honest with me. How much stigma is there actually against a text-only quest? (Or at the very least, almost only text with the occasional reference picture not drawn by me.)

I've been wanting to do a quest for a long time, but I can't even draw good looking stick figures, and I don't want my bad art to detract from the ideas I have for a story. Can I manage, or will no-one here, at least, be interested? I'm prepared to give longer, more detailed updates as a result, of course. I'm much, much better at describing things than drawing them...
>>
No. 61865 ID: 1f8505

>>61863

Text quests do carry a negative stigma 'round these parts, but some pictures are better than no pictures.
>>
No. 61880 ID: 9718f3

>>61863
There is currently Neo Sex Mall, GFH, and Breakers (I guess? Does it have an official title?) running, and there have been popular text quests in the past. Nobody is going to shit all over your quest just because it doesn't have pictures. If the writing is good, you'll attract posters, probably a core of 2-3. I know I keep an eye out for good text quests.
>>
No. 61887 ID: 86c3a7

Yeah, you'll get posters, just less of 'em. But don't let that hold you back! There's no reason a text quest can't be done well. Breaking Reality is text, and my current favorite active quest.
>>
No. 62095 ID: a407a5

>>61863
I have to agree with the people above me, for the most part. You'll probably only get a few core people(I think I've got 2-3 that post regularly, and then maybe 4-5 more that drop in and out whenever they have something they'd like to say).

Still, it can be done, and I find it enjoyable to do, regardless of the number of posters.

>>61887
We thank you kindly.
>>
No. 62287 ID: 4435b3

>>61863
There have been some successful text quests here. Just remember to do your research, stay on top of things, and provide unique and interesting content, and you'll do fine. Let's be honest, the only real competition you have is Breakers.
>>
No. 62473 ID: 02944e
File 135094141709.gif - (1.52MB , 160x120 , 1349973278427.gif )
62473

Just a bit curious. I've never read any of the main quests (plopped in and out of a few as they run though) and I've been lurking and posting here for a while while being semi-regular on TGMUD, thought I'd try my hand with a quest. Had a few questions though.

What's tgchan's opinion on using non-human protagonists. No, I don't mean like make the character an elf/sergal/originalracedontsteal but something that really isn't human at all. Has it been done before? Has it gone well for those involved or have people just dropped off due to the inability to relate? I had an idea for a quest where the players would take the role of some sort of horrible bodysnatcher that would hop from body to body with the intention of [REDACTED] while on the run from what is essentially XCOM.

This brings on to my second point. I'm god awful at drawing, in every sense of a word. And I don't know if this is true for TGCHAN at large, but a poorly drawn quest can really ruin my immersion. That said I understand the general disdain for text quests. That's where last night I had an idea. What about presenting a quest as an audio drama? Has anyone tried a voice acted quest before? Obviously it would have to be a rather slowly updating thread to give me time to collect the voice clips and mix them together (maybe add a few sound effects if I can find a good open library). Just throwing things out there.
>>
No. 62474 ID: 34cbef

>>62473
the audio update is a thing that is rarely explored here on tgchan. As for the non-human protagonist, that is actually very common.

All it takes is commitment to the quest and if you are going with audio it needs to be recorded well and not in monotone voice.
The rest is up to how you engage the suggestors.
>>
No. 62475 ID: 44f93b

Something like an evil body-snatcher either results in us trying to reform it into something nicer or with us just running with the evil for the fun of it.

Pretty much every protagonist is non-human, to some extent (even the few humans are tend to be unusual in some way). How we'll react to a drastically inhuman / differently perspective-ed character can vary. If the character is willing to talk to suggesters directly, you can get a lot of interesting back and forth as we try to figure out their worldview etc. If there's less direct interaction, you can still get a lot of interesting player discussion and speculation trying to figure it out, and experimental suggestions. If it's done poorly though, yes, you can end up with an obtuse character we can't relate to and don't understand.

>audio drama
As someone who spends far too much time listening to npr, I have to say an interactive radio-play sounds highly intriguing.
>>
No. 62476 ID: 629257

>>62473
>really not human at all
Well here is an example of a quest with a physically completely inhuman protagonist:
http://www1.tgchan.org/wiki/Rebirth_Quest
But in terms of personality he's a charming 007, among humanoids or otherwise. So its not at all unrelatable.

There are some examples of more alien mindsets, usually involving 3rd person descriptions of the protagonists thoughts and experiences. It's different, but with fair enough writing its not any kind of a negative.
>>
No. 62480 ID: 26a7c1

>>62473
>audio
Someone tried that once, I don't think it lasted past the first thread.

>nonhuman protagonists
It's been done a few times, to varying degrees of success.
>>
No. 62481 ID: 02944e

>>62475
Yeah, it's something that I'm pretty interested in doing. My only problem is I personally don't have access to a good quality microphone just the shitty one built into my laptop. That and my vocal range isn't the biggest. So I'd be relying on volunteers to record voices, likely plucked from IRC or some other source. My good old bodysnatcher quest is something I'd rather do after I've ran a quest and figured out how to do it. I'm quite intent on doing a sort of proof-of-concept quest to make sure doing an audio drama quest can be done but I'm worried that if I do that it'll turn into just that: a proof of concept and nothing more.
>>
No. 62484 ID: 34cbef

>>62481
we have no, i repeat, no successful audio quests on tgchan. I'm all for another attempt at it, hell i'll even pitch in with my voice- but it's all up to you on wanting to start it.

Can't be afraid of what might happen, that often times prevents people from actually doing a quest to begin with.
>>
No. 62525 ID: 4a20fa

>>62473
>What about presenting a quest as an audio drama? Has anyone tried a voice acted quest before?
1) Amateur voice acting is generally even more painful than the amateur writing being read.
2) You can't search, you can't skim, and between those you can't easily refer back to things.

Doodle. Unless you go tracing anime you'll be hard-pressed to do worse.
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No. 62617 ID: bd69ff
File 135120446314.jpg - (14.71KB , 404x270 , frustrated_writer.jpg )
62617

Some words of wisdom from an old quest author:

I ran a quest two or so years ago, but I teetered out in updates due in part to the time required to continue updates, but mostly due to my own self criticism. Back then, I would finish an update and say "This is crap. I'm not good at this." Then after the post I would get some responses and then say "This is crap, no one is reading this." And get depressed.

Now, two years later as I gear up for continuing my quests, I look back on my old work and I realize something. I was such an idiot. My posts weren't bad. I look back on them and say "These are alright." And I see the posts after each of them and say "I had a good following."

This all goes to show that YOU ARE YOUR BIGGEST CRITIC! Anything you do, you will be the first (and in many cases the last) to point out the flaws. One of the biggest hurdles as a quest author is to get above this idea that each update has to be "perfect" and be willing to simply try your best. As long as you are trying then no matter what it is you post, it will be good. There will be slow times, there will be good times, but overall as long as you keep the story moving, someone will be interested.
>>
No. 62628 ID: 03da93

>>62617
That said, one should always strive to improve oneself, and recognize errors.
>>
No. 62638 ID: bd69ff

Oh of course, that goes without saying. :)
>>
No. 64599 ID: f1ecb7

So, hi there.

I've been lurking in this site for quite a while now and I've really been thinking about starting my own quests, the only problem is that my art skills are basically zero however I am willing to take the time to, well, basically learn to draw well, could any of you guys give any tips about what books, programs, etc, would be a good place to start at?

I'm basically looking to get at least decent at drawing, maybe even develop my own style and even though I know this is something that is going to take a long time to learn well, I am willing to put the effort to learn it.

Thanks for any help you guys can give.
>>
No. 64603 ID: 3fbe84

>>64599
The best thing you can do is not use a book or a program, but devote the time. Drawing books aren't all *bad*, but they are better if you use them for guidelines for things you want to do after you already have figured out where you can get to alone. It doesn't matter how "good" of an artist you already are, what really matters is how much time and effort you are willing to put into your drawings.

I would suggest you put aside one hour each day to draw. You can if you are up for it use that hour per day to do a small quest here, or if you don't think your ready for that you can just draw whatever comes to mind.

If you spend the time, then you will become a better drawer. Especially if you (at least at first) stay away from drawing books, you will achieve your other goal of developing your own style. Good luck :)
>>
No. 64606 ID: f1ecb7

>>64603

Appreciate that, definitely don't think I'm up to starting one yet. I'll try with hourly sessions for now, do you recommend just starting in a blank page and draw whatever? or trying to replicate other drawings?
>>
No. 64668 ID: 0a4fb8

>>64606
Draw on your own, if you can! It's okay to look at other things to get a feel for what you're supposed to do with the lines, but otherwise it'd just be like copying a story instead of writing your own. You're writing, technically, but you aren't learning from it or really developing your own style.

As a quest author who didn't have any idea how to draw, I found that the best thing to do was to just do a quest. It's the perfect way to learn how to draw, as long as you update consistently; Every image is something new, some new thing for you to do, and you can't predict what it will be.
>>
No. 64672 ID: c264df

The people who are telling you that books are bad are full of shit. Some basic skills and learningtimes will drastically reduce the time it takes for you to draw well.

https://sites.google.com/site/4chanic/training-tutorials
>>
No. 64702 ID: f1ecb7

>>64672

That link.

have all of my thanks! I really appreciate the help!
>>
No. 64710 ID: 5be5e7

A lot of art books assume you can draw. Avoid the books that have you draw a figure line by line. Most of them are labeled "how to draw..." "How to Draw Anime Figures" is a good example. You will learn shortcuts and bad habits from them.
If you are serious, take a basic art class at college. It's not the easy way of course, but it will teach you drawing without picking up nasty habits.
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No. 64744 ID: 5bf190
File 135480662711.jpg - (50.41KB , 405x615 , makingcomics.jpg )
64744

In regards books, I want to say that one book, "Making Comics" by Scott McCloud, is really good, and I recommend it to anyone. It doesn't really teach you how to draw, but it does teach layout, visual design, the basics of body language and expressions, creating particular moods, and so on. It's also really good on the writing side, particularly if you want to make comics, and drawn quests are pretty much a kind of comic. Things like pacing and character design and the balance between art and text and all that sort of thing.

And the book is in the form of a comic itself, so it's pretty good fun to read, as well.
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No. 65409 ID: 87d89c
File 135622495208.jpg - (35.68KB , 500x500 , burne hogarth.jpg )
65409

>>64744
I'm going to second this.

Then crack open this book and start practicing.
>>
No. 65435 ID: 4211c1

>>65409
I'm not sure if I'd recommend Hogarth to start with; a lot of what he does and teaches in his book is fairly stylized and exaggerated. The way he breaks things down into forms is also somewhat advanced in comparison to how someone like Hampton or Loomis does it. Hogarth is good once you have a grasp on the general forms of the figure and then want to learn to manipulate them, but doesn't provide much of a foundation. Definitely a good aid for spicing up your life drawings, though
>>
No. 65445 ID: 67e8b2

>>65435
>I'm not sure if I'd recommend Hogarth to start with
For whatever it's worth, it's what I started with.
>>
No. 65452 ID: 89c0c8

Well, I personally 'started' with Andrew Loomis. I looked at Hogarth today, and I think his anatomical depictions are stylised, to say the least. I do think that the above book talks about important matters, like the drawing of figures in a 3-dimensional space, but for the purpose of studying the geometrical composition of figures, I would recommend that you look at Loomis first. Michael Hampton's book is also good, but in my opinion it is more advanced than Loomis, and therefore potentially less suitable for an absolute beginner.
>>
No. 65609 ID: 87d89c

>>65452
I think it's better to see stylized anatomy once you have proportions down, because all of Hogarth's curves are exaggerated and thus easier to see. You're for sure able to understand the shapes involved when they are exaggerated.
>>
No. 65794 ID: 011678

quick question, whats the opinion on running multiple uests at the same time? bad idea? forbiden? fine if i think i can pull it off?
>>
No. 65801 ID: 5be5e7

Unless you actually have experience at running a single quest all the way to completion, running two at once would not be a good thing.
>>
No. 65811 ID: 49f442

>>65794

look just

just don't do it okay?

just don't.
>>
No. 65825 ID: 57a559

>>65794
Only if your Lagotrope
>>
No. 65906 ID: 920337

>>65811
Concurring. Thinking you can run more quests than you can is an almost guaranteed way to kill them all.
>>
No. 65969 ID: 6808dd

>>65794
as someone who does run a lot of quests:
i like it, but it's not for everyone. i like it bc if i don't feel like updating one quest i can update another instead, and so i'm still questing and still involved in the community and everything stays sort of fresh bc it's on rotation.
BUT.
everyone here can probably attest that my updates are less than regular and that can be directly attributed to two things: 1. just plain laziness and 2. the fact that i have multiple quests. and if i'm updating one quest that means there are two others i'm neglecting.
i don't think it's a bad thing but you have to have a lot of will to do it and you have to really, really love the quests you're doing. irregular updates will invariably make you lose readers and if you have multiple quests (and you aren't lagotrope) you WILL have irregular updates.
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No. 66020 ID: 063474
File 135800900146.png - (68.23KB , 547x690 , tumblr_mfu9r2dbvY1qcwd45o1_1280.png )
66020

I think this applies to quests as well.
>>
No. 66042 ID: 6fbd8c

>>66020
Oh wow, that feel.

(especially the bit where your new updates take soooo long, but you can't even stand to look at your old pages without flinching.)
>>
No. 66050 ID: 579130
File 135804275747.png - (44.67KB , 330x357 , jykkkhjkjf.png )
66050

>>66020

That uh, made me realise I have a lot to think about.
>>
No. 66053 ID: d02155

>>66050
naaw...
Just don't think about anything you made at all! That'd let you skip step 2 to 7 and you will just have to ignore some comments about critiques...
>>
No. 66074 ID: 4a20fa
File 135809909396.png - (67.71KB , 547x690 , theonlywinningmove.png )
66074

>>66053
>No introspection, no critique, FINAL DESTINATION
>>
No. 66080 ID: bfa44d

>>66074
>Overtaking lagotrope
>Possible
>>
No. 66105 ID: 9d5618

so quick question
say I was doing a quest on tumblr, would I be able to have a discussion thread here?
>>
No. 66106 ID: 1f8505

>>66105

Why would you want to run a quest on Tumblr?
>>
No. 66108 ID: 0006f5

>>66105
either make another blog for asks about the quest, or point people to that iffy disqus module inside of posts as individual (user-submitted) threads about the quest

its messy either way
>>
No. 66119 ID: 9d5618

>>66106
I dunno, just seems sorta... nicer I guess?
but thinking about it now having a discussion thread for it here would be really silly

I'd honestly just like to grab a couple of you for more varied commands
>>
No. 66130 ID: a274c8

>>66119
As far as I have seen, tgchan's very nice too, you could be running your quest here without a problem. You will get a wider range of commands for sure and the people you bring might get interested in more quests, giving their authors more readers and commands to work with
>>
No. 66141 ID: 5be5e7

If you don't want silly suggestions, either put something about that on your first post, or ignore them. As long as your quest isn't major antics, people will understand.
>>
No. 67110 ID: bd1d08

>>66119

If you're going to use a blog for a quest, there are a million better ways to do it than to use tumblr, of all the godawful sites you could pull out of a hat.
>>
No. 67370 ID: a3f986

Tumbler works fine for Purple Quest.
>>
No. 67648 ID: 65449b

>>66074
Okay, I laughed really hard at "it's your STYLE!"
>>
No. 67699 ID: 788e41

>>67648
I can't recall, but have we ever had any Stick Figure quests?
>>
No. 67709 ID: 65449b

>>67699
Yes, of course. I drew them, when I first started. RQ was just a step above it, after all.
>>
No. 67756 ID: c92d04

>>66080
What if they were high on amphetamines, LSD, and an incredible amount of caffeine, all at once?
>>
No. 67762 ID: e7469d

>>67756

that list needs more uppers.
>>
No. 67765 ID: 5d98c3

>>67762
I don't know any more uppers!
>>
No. 67818 ID: beeca1

>>67765
Theobromine? Possibly taurine and guanine too.
>>
No. 68390 ID: 3a5823

I dunno if it's worth sharing, but I've been writing my updates before drawing images. This is so that the story is fully coherent, and doesn't rely on any imagery to complete it. Rather, I am drawing images to support the writing, rather than writing to describe the pictures. In my opinion, the written part of an update should not be dependent on images.

The images can be used to support the story, but the story should make sense on its own, without an image.

After doing several dramatic readings, I have developed the opinion that the updates shouldn't respond directly to suggestions. That is, when a suggester asks a question, and the update quotes the post directly with an answer. In place of this, I think it is better to take the questions (or suggestions in general), and transform them into part of the story, with more supporting context than they would otherwise have.

Though, with this said, I realise that it depends on the narrative style, and the general theme of the quest. Sometimes, pictures will be necessary, especially when something particularly complicated is involved. Also if it's a silly quest and you don't care. Do what you want.
>>
No. 68407 ID: 218a2f

>>68390
I think this really depends on the feel of the story you want, as well as the number of images you're willing to draw -- if you're only drawing one image per update but still moving things forward at a clip, you're obviously going to have to rely quite heavily on the writing with the images being more or less a bonus; on the other hand, if you're providing five or six images with some regularity, you can treat things more like a comic and leave a lot of your descriptive work to the images.

I think it's definitely important to consider how you want the two media to work together, though.
>>
No. 68408 ID: 218a2f

>>68390
Just realized I only half-addressed your post, um.

I write before the images are drawn too -- I don't know how else I'd do it since I'm working with an artist. I agree that for the style you're doing, treating the images as something to support the story rather than something more integral to it is appropriate -- but I wouldn't give it to other people as general-purpose advice.

Similarly, I don't agree with you about responding directly to suggestions, as far as general advice is concerned -- for a more light-hearted quest, that sort of banter between the suggesters and the character as /quest/ tries to win them over on whatever course of action they're proposing can be one of the most entertaining features of the entire thing.
>>
No. 68732 ID: 2f4b71

Direct or indirect response to questers is a narrative choice, there's not really a right or wrong way to go about it. You've got anything from a literally talking Orb of Infinite Psyche that characters respond to directly, to the head-voices that the protagonist goes back-and-forth internally with, through 'fleeting fragments of the subconscious mind', all the way to indirect influence.
>>
No. 69817 ID: 8699d6

Here is a piece of advice for all of the super cool dudes: Put the name of your goddamn quest in the goddamn subject line or I am probably not going to read it because I won't be able to find it in the catalog. THANKS.
>>
No. 70186 ID: 450660

Text Only Quests -- Yes or No?

Rather than start a new thread, I'll ask this here: what is the general consensus of a text-only quest? I remember Dasaki running one some time ago, but I didn't follow closely enough to see how it fared.

As for why, well, needless to say my artistic talent is somewhere between "maybe" and "from time to time", so the readers would likely be graced with fairly inconsistent doodles. That, and it'd also limit the scope of when I would be able to update, as the only tablet-like thing that's with me most hours is my phone -- which I have yet to really test whether or not it would even be plausible to use.

I understand that a lack of graphical updates will probably make it more difficult to read as well.
>>
No. 70188 ID: c9d64a

>>70186
Read the thread.

Try Ctrl+F "text quest".
>>
No. 70207 ID: 450660

>>70188

Your lack of help and a search of 42 instances of a phrase has resulted in the findings that:

* The question of whether or not a text quest can be regarded favorably as an alternative is asked often.
* Regards for these quests are all over the board, and generally subjective.
* Examples are inconsistent and lacking.
* And no one can really seem to give a definitive answer on whether or not this would have an impact aside from the debate between "do art anyway" and "low quality ruins the immersion".
>>
No. 70213 ID: 2fbf20

>>70207
Most people here will automatically assume it's shit.
>>
No. 70214 ID: c9d64a

>>70207
>Your lack of help
Shall I breathe in your stead next or can you handle it yourself?
>>
No. 70216 ID: 450660

>>70213

I'm starting to gather as much, and thank you for actually replying. Guess I'll just forgo doing a quest for now.
>>
No. 70223 ID: 5be5e7

So you accepted what the first 10 results of the search told you?
See, if you can't put the time in reading a simple answer like the one you asked, how do you expect anyone to put the time to read your text quest? It takes a lot of effort to make one correctly, and you didn't exactly show a willingness to do that.
>>
No. 70228 ID: c6319f

My aren't we all pleasant.

Text quests are totally fine. There's no rule against them and you're unlikely to be harassed just for doing a text quest. And if you are, well, that's a violation of the board's rules so you've got admins backing you up.

There are drawbacks to running a text quest. You're likely going to have fewer readers and participants, and you need to maintain a higher level of quality to keep people interested.

Still, there have been and are currently successful text-only threads. I personally keep an eye out for them in particular. Random piece of advice: consider use images, even stock images, if for no other reason than it makes author posts stick out.
>>
No. 70234 ID: d6ef5d

>text quests
Honestly, you're going to get more grief asking if you should do a text quest than you'll ever get running one.
>>
No. 70235 ID: 450660

>>70228

This is unfortunate, as I've really no further desire to run a quest, seeing as hostility appears to be the norm:

>>70213
>>70214
>>70223
>>70234
>>
No. 70237 ID: 735f4f

This is the thread people complain about stuff in it seems. You very rarely see any of that in quest threads. And the admins handle stuff quickly.
>>
No. 70239 ID: c6319f

>>70235
Well that last one isn't actually giving you any grief.

Anyway, this thread tends to draw people with more opinion than courtesy. I have no idea what's crawled up their asses, but it's not the norm for the site at large. Which isn't to say that disrespect isn't common, but it's irreverence rather than hostility typically.

My official quest advice thread quest advice is to write the quest anyway. Because now I'm curious.
>>
No. 70240 ID: d6ef5d

>Well that last one isn't actually giving you any grief.
I certainly did not intend any. I regret if perhaps I didn't go into enough detail to raise above the general murmur of discontent.

My point was that whenever a prospective author raises the text quest question, it seems to attract a disproportionate level of hostility (going back years. You can find at least half a dozen threads where this plays out if you trawl back through /questdis/) from people who never participate in text quests anyways. Very rarely do you see such outright hostility in quests themselves. For the most part the worst reaction you will encounter is disinterest.

On the whole, I support text quests. (Currently enjoying Cocona, and mourning the fact Dreamer hasn't updated anything in over a month). The focus on writing over illustration can lead to a strength or richness in areas many image quests choose not to focus on, or gloss over. The smaller reader base has some disadvantages, but there's also a certain appeal as well, from a suggestor's standpoint (with only a few people playing a quest, you can end up with better odds for cooperation, compromise and civil discussion compared to blind voting and disagreement common in larger quests).

I wouldn't say text quests are any better or worse than image quests, but they can be good.
>>
No. 70250 ID: a18d07

>>70235
Two things.

a) Text quests receive a limited amount of attention and, as a rule of thumb, face more difficult challenges in attracting readers as most people are not huge fans of text quests.

b) They're right, you know. Although overtly hostile about it. More importantly, by making this your first impression, you've slightly doomed your chances at getting your quest received in a positive manner.

Text quests are viewed with derision and scorn because they are usually universally terrible in both writing quality and content. You would be fighting one hell of an uphill battle running a text quest here. Perhaps /tg/ would be more suitable?
>>
No. 70256 ID: 0a8129

Here's something I've quickly learned as a newbie:
Keep a text file updated with all the important info you're putting into your quest. Looking back through your own writing for a detail you made up on the spot can be a littttle painful.
>>
No. 70282 ID: 7db90d

if your skin is about as thick as tracing paper, you probably have no place running a quest here or in /tg/ anyway.
>>
No. 70285 ID: 2fbf20

To all of those aspiring text quest authors I ask a question.

What is good writing?
>>
No. 70288 ID: 7f1ec9

>>70285
People pay me for my writing, as unwise as I consider that, and this is the best advice I can give:

Good writing means you get the absolute most you can out of every word you write. Words cost nothing to write down so the overwhelming tendency is to waste them. You have to fight hard against that urge.

The exception is dialogue. My preference is to go hogwild with dialogue because there you aim for naturalism. You don't have to watch yourself with that because people don't watch themselves much when they actually talk. Plus dialogue is words, and words can describe words naturally. When a character says, "Shit", the word itself conveys the whole event. There's no smell or taste or anything involved, it's just a word. There is nothing lost between the saying and the transcribing.

But when describing action or setting there is a barrier in the conversion from sight to word. You can't be natural there. Unless you're a lot better than most everyone else on this board you can't tackle that conversion in a way that is very in depth while retaining readability. That's how prose gets bloated and purple.

So the best thing, unless you're the next Edmund Spenser, is economy. Don't describe the big monster more than you need to. Use your words to focus us where you want. On the teeth or the eyes or whatever. Give us the sense and emotion of the thing, and don't try to give us the thing itself, or we'll be staring at a big wall of text.

Sort of like this one.

Oopsie.
>>
No. 70289 ID: 7f1ec9

oh but if you don't want to do that but still want a big viewership make yr protagonist mad fuckable
>>
No. 70295 ID: cea452

>>70288
This is beautiful. I agree almost 100%.

Building off of this... I read somewhere, "With writing, you're not telling someone that it's raining, you're making them feel that it's raining."

It really all comes down to show, don't tell. In practice that means choosing the precise word(s) that you need to convey the meaning and feeling you want to convey. An example: which of these two "feels" better? "The man jumped far," or "The man leaped?"

"Jumped far" is bad because it's 'telling' about a distant jump, but "leaped" is good because it packs much more meaning into a single word than is even in the whole phrase "jumped off." (How detailed are the pictures that the single word "leap" conjure in your mind's eye? Can't you feel your legs stretching out, can't you feel the rush of air? Compared to the simple phrase "jump far?") And then, when your audience reads it, they themselves must decipher the meaning of the word in order to understand it, and that means they're feeling the meaning... instead of being told about it.
>>
No. 70298 ID: cea452

>>70295
The way i worded that quote was awful. It should be more like, "Your purpose is not to say that it rained. You're making the reader feel the sensation of water drops falling on them, and of moistness and dampness," and I don't really remember it. It was a really great quote, I swear!
>>
No. 70299 ID: fe3247

That general writing advice is good, but I think you have to keep in mind that these are quests, too. They're not just stories, they're games, there are puzzles and clues, you're supposed to interact with them. Sometimes they have to be straight-on description, "you are standing in a dark dank room, 20 foot to either side and 30 to the opposite wall, there is a torch flickering in a sconce beside the door, there is a mouldering chest in the corner", et cetera et cetera I'm attacking the darkness and so on.

I mean, you can make that stuff good, too, but it's not the same style as normal writing. Like, what Brom says about economy is true, but in a text quest where you might be requiring the players to notice certain details, then you'd need to fill the descriptions with similar details so that it remains a puzzle, not just "oh that must be important because he's talking too much about it".
>>
No. 70301 ID: 8950d8

Oh yeah obv for quests it can be different

But I don't really think a puzzle quest would work as a text quest anyway
>>
No. 70323 ID: bd8b82

I've actually read quite a few rpg manuals, so I might be able to help with gameplay mechanics if anyone is interested.
>>
No. 70335 ID: 50282c

Wound running a quest entirely in first person work? Images being from the characters point of view, that sorta thing? Or would that be more trouble then its worth?
>>
No. 70337 ID: 943463

>>70335
It could work with the right quest idea to go with it, but the gimmick alone wouldn't make the quest interesting if it wasn't already.
>>
No. 70343 ID: 2fbf20

>>70335
The only POV that I would really argue against in narrative writing is second person POV.
>>
No. 70346 ID: 318eff

>>70343

Why? I've seen (even written) several quests which use this perspective, and do not see anything bad about it.
>>
No. 70351 ID: 5bf190

Person-ness is a bit odd in Quests, it doesn't quite fit the formula that it does in normal writing. Because, you see, in normal writing, the "narrator" is only facing one direction, as it were, and they only need to describe what's happening in the story. In quests, the narrator does that as well, but also needs to turn around and interact with the suggesters, which messes things up.

Here, this is your selection, I think.

First-person ignorance: Not used that often, but sometimes. The protagonist character describes and reacts to what's happening but doesn't directly acknowledge the suggesters, or acts as if the suggesters are their own thoughts. Polo in Lagotrope's quests does this, acting like she's just thinking to herself; sometimes when the suggesters are weird she wonders what's wrong with herself. But she has a clear and distinct personality of her own.

First-person interaction: The protagonist is the narrator and talks to the questers as if holding a conversation with them. Often associated with quests where the questers are some sort of presence in-universe, such as in my own quest, Will of the Undermind. Without such a "suggestion device", the protagonist seems to break the fourth wall, but readers are capable of accepting a lack of explanation. First-person interaction characters often seem stronger, since they talk back more often.

Second-person: This style is based on how old text RPGs worked, i.e. "You are standing in a dark room", "ye cannot get ye flask", etc. It lends a retro feel and is usually used for "vessel" protagonists who lack any agency of their own and just do what suggesters tell them. Or almost so. Almost never used in traditional writing, but a totally legitimate choice in quests. Possibly helpful for stories where unpleasant things happen, since the protagonist seems less like a real person. Sometimes quests start in second person but develop into third person.

Third-person: The quest is described like a story, with the protagonist's actions and thoughts related using their name and pronouns. This is a tricky one to pull off in quests, because the protagonist usually has a distinct identity, but still has less agency than a first-person protagonist. Such characters come off as weaker because they're usually responding to suggestions that they're not conscious of, though they can also be prone to "wow where did that come from" as with first-person ignorance characters.

And finally you can blend these styles for various purposes. In Lunar Quest, I use third-person and occasionally second-person to describe what Saulanna does, but she otherwise often behaves like a first-person ignorance character, sometimes to the point of sounding like she's talking about herself in the third person. She has more personality and agency than a pure second- or third-person protagonist might, but still comes off as being missing something and mostly under player control (which is intentional on my part). But then there are a few characters in the quest who, by way of being transcendental supernatural creatures, can bend the fourth wall to talk to the suggesters directly - I say "bend" rather than break because they never (or seldom, at least) directly acknowledge that they're in a work of fiction. Or in The Sword, the thing seemed initially to be a first-person interaction quest, but then the questers themselves became sort of the protagonist through their in-quest suggestion device, after which they were a second-person protagonist who dipped back into scenes with other first-person protagonists. But this is experimental stuff.

I would recommend choosing your way of writing by how you want your protagonist to come off, and how much power you want the players to feel they have. First-person protagonists tend to have the most personality (interaction ones a little more than non-interaction), then third-person, then second-person. But this is only a modifier on top of how good your character writing it is, and any character can be strong if you can manage it. As for the sense of player control, second-person protagonists seem the most controllable usually, then first-person interaction, then first-person ignorance. Third-person protagonists vary in how much the players would feel they're in control.

Dig?
>>
No. 70352 ID: 509e51

Oh, and there's also a distinction between personhood in writing, and personhood in view.

>>70335
would be first-person view, rather than writing. If I did such a thing myself, I would use second-person writing, or first-person ignorance, but any could work. As for whether it's good idea or not is how much you want to trade convenience for immersion, I think. You'll spend a lot of updates with the suggesters just asking that protagonist look in another direction.
>>
No. 70355 ID: 2f6918

You'd have to be mad good at perspective, which would absolutely destroy me if I tried that, but then I am a turrible artist.

I think Nahkh did a first person quest a while ago from the perspective of an x-com rookie and it ended up pretty good (if brutal and short, because x-com)
>>
No. 70380 ID: 2309b3

So newcomer here. Seriously, threads pretty much won't do well unless you can draw? I mean, I can't draw for shit. I planned on using text and a few images pulled from elsewhere to give a general idea of things.
>>
No. 70381 ID: 2309b3

>>70380
Oh yeah, what's the general pace of quests around here? Do you need to cook up a post every 10-15 minutes or less? Can you take your time (within reason) to come up with something nice?
>>
No. 70382 ID: fd299a

>>70380
When I started I couldn't draw for shit, either. Draw. It'll attract a bigger audience and the best way to learn to draw is by doing it a lot. For real.

Updates can be slow as fuck and you'll be fine. I normally try for daily (although I've been mad busy lately), but that's considered pretty fast and regular around here.
>>
No. 70384 ID: 943463

>>70381
If you're capable of running sessions with posts that quickly and maintain a reasonable quality, by all means go for it; it'll make your quest stand out and get you a good audience. And even if you have to make the sessions less frequent in order to pull that off, the speed of updates within the session makes it worthwhile.

If scaling back to every 30-60 minutes means you can make the art significantly better, though, you might choose to do that instead. But momentum is one of the biggest factors in maintaining interest.
>>
No. 70395 ID: 3459dd

Hey, everybody who considers themselves to have an artstyle that could be called "clean" (visually, not the moral sense), how do you manage it? Like Lagotrope's stuff, for instance, or KnifeQuest, or Revenant Quest, or Fortune's Call, as examples. Do you just draw really carefully a few times, or try quickly a bunch of times until you get it right, or draw a bunch of lines and smooth them out? Or just have magic fingers from practice? Whenever I draw stuff, I tend to draw lines as a bunch of overlapping strokes, and it usually makes the drawings look a bit scribbly. I'd like to at least be ABLE to make clean lines, anyway, style notwithstanding. Another related thing I notice is that images in most quests are small-ish for drawing on. So I assume that they were originally rather larger? Or do you just draw at the size you post at? One final question: how do you draw characters consistently, and how do you make them visually distinct from each other? Thanks.
>>
No. 70396 ID: 0006f5

>>70395
line control is practice. i always suggest resisting rotating the canvas so that one can train themselves beyond their present control of a brisk line in as many directions comfortable. exercises for this purpose can be started by just taking images of any sort, reducing the opacity and tracing over them with the goal to reduce flight or doubling back on strokes.

assuming you are using a drawing tablet, i dont use stabilizers or tablet settings and it shows; i believe stroke stabilizing is what many people use to let the pointing algorithm smooth the pen path, the other way would be with vector drawing which i am only aware of a few here who do.

i've in person experienced someone spend ten minutes redoing a single line in a character portrait, and while everyone has to start somewhere, is very silly to me. other times, and using your examples specifically, ive seen lagotrope make brisk lines which end messily, then clean up the ends. this is much more economic than trying to ace the hole as in the former.

try to get out of overlapping strokes / doubling back as i mentioned. i think most everyone draws at the dimensions they post at, especially with the examples you gave that are clearly aliased / binary such as lagotrope quests and knife quest. lower resolutions are much more forgiving, but present a limit on the possible detail
>>
No. 70398 ID: c9d64a
File 136776007861.png - (8.45KB , 535x321 , YOLOSWAG.png )
70398

>>70396
>i think most everyone draws at the dimensions they post at
YOLO

To be fair, I don't always use the whole canvas (resize canvas after sketch) and with quests I used to resize down from a smaller canvas to 40-60%, but recently increased canvas size there too so I'm resizing down to 25%, with "print" size remaining constant.

If nothing else, draw huge, print small. Even with superfast messy sketches.
>>
No. 70399 ID: dda6e7
File 136776274714.jpg - (231.78KB , 682x764 , sedna.jpg )
70399

I used to hate the fact that I couldn't draw "clean", but after a while I just decided to fuck it, it's my STYLE

how terrible this is, I don't know, but it's probably not terrible enough to "ruin" your quest.
>>
No. 70410 ID: 0967b9
File 136784108986.png - (15.74KB , 900x900 , 134665405367.png )
70410

I don't think people are really all that fussy about art. I mean, yeah, not having art is surely detrimental to the ultimate popularity of your quest, but as long as what you draw is reasonably coherent, you don't need to put much effort in. And while people enjoy more flashy art, I wouldn't break my back over it, because ultimately, it can cripple one's enthusiasm.

For example, in my quest, 'Doolbag's Mission,' the artworks are scribbles (see image). They take mere moments to complete, and it's quite evident. Yet, it is enough for my audience, and for the theme of the quest.

If what you draw with has a 'lazy pointer' feature (for most people here, it seems to be Paint tool SAI, which sports this), that will aid you to some degree in overcoming the sketchiness.


As for image dimensions, I always post with the same dimensions at which I draw. As far as quest updates are concerned, anyway. But, some people use image shrinking as a means by which to achieve a seemingly smoother linework. Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. Being annoyed by doing quest artwork is not very healthy for a long quest. I know this from experience.
>>
No. 70490 ID: c0e1a3

How about pencil drawn and scanned stuff?
>>
No. 70492 ID: 400dc8

>>70490
Thats usually pretty crummy because of the weird lighting and the relatively faint pencil, but maybe it could work!
>>
No. 70494 ID: 306558

>>70490

I gotta be honest here. those are a real turn-off for me. I'd rather have mouse-drawn images or even no images at all.
>>
No. 70495 ID: f2c20c

>>70490
Scanned stuff usually looks pretty bad. I mean, most scanners pick up on the grain of the paper so it looks all dirty.

The usual way to take advantage of scanning art is to load it up into photoshop or something and draw lines over the scanned lines. There are some filters you can use to automate the process but that's a bit finicky...
>>
No. 70497 ID: c9d64a

Pencil can be made less faint with auto-levels/-contrast (or manual contrast/levels if you're a hipster OR an actual high-level professional with a specific goal in mind), but that also affects the grain. Also, vectoring pencil art looks stiff, don't do it. And that's not stiff like a dick, or nipples in frosty weather, but stiff like rigor mortis or old people trying to be cool by doing "kids' stuff" like unironically wearing Skrillecks T-shirds.

The one non-digital to digital method that works is ink and b&w scanning. Now, this is with paper printing in mind, but you're supposed to scan inked images as b&w, 1200 dpi .bmp. The filesize isn't actually huge because it's all binary black and white.
Non-digital ink has the upside of adding a tasty texture to the line, which digital b&w linework just does not have. Digital obviously has the advantage of ease of editing.

And despite what people have said about drawing 1:1 because it's fast or whatever, draw big, print small. Aside from the one additional small step of resizing down to print size after doing all the work, it's no more time-consuming. No matter how quick and messy your drawings are, draw big, print small. It's easier to work with, it allows for a larger margin of error, it's smarter, and it makes your secondary (and/or primary) sexual characteristics more impressive.
>>
No. 70503 ID: 5be5e7

Pencil can be fine, but a lot of people seem to use whatever paper is laying around the house and a number 2.
Instead, go to a store like Michaels and pick yourself up some paper made for pencil art.
Then pick up some pencils in the B range above 2. 4-6 are good numbers. I use a b6 when I want to scan a pencil drawing. Though it is harder to erase. If you have problems with that, use a light pencil first(h2 or h4), then draw over that with the darker pencil. Thing is, you are basically inking but using pencils instead of pens. While it's true that you can just be very light with the darker pencils hardly pushing it to the paper at all, it just isn't worth it. Better to have two pencils.
If you just say pencil because you don't know any better, there are very nice pens called Micron. You will find numbers on them like 03, 01, and 001. That's width, and 001 is the smaller of the lines. Just pick one you like. Draw it first in h4 or h6(if you can stand it), then trace over the good parts with your pen. When you scan it, the pencil wont show up.
>>
No. 70505 ID: 34f12d
File 136821627511.png - (21.15KB , 512x512 , ohrWIP1.png )
70505

>>70395

I'm not a quest author myself but I can offer a bit of my own experience.

I use a mouse. (Not cool enough for the tablet club yet.) A lot of my background involves vector images, and several programs support vector linework and shapes. The ever-popular SAI has outstanding line tools, but no support for filled-in shapes. (This isn't exactly a handicap if all you want is lines though. I fill things in manually and do a lot of manual detail.) This is my weapon of choice currently, and I abuse the high hell out of it. The result can be extremely clean.

Or not. Depending on your settings and software you can get a rough or pixelated look out of it too.

The biggest drawback to this method is that it can be pretty time consuming, especially when you're not familiar with the tools. Don't feel bad if it takes you forever at first, should you choose to do things this way.
>>
No. 70507 ID: c9d64a

>>70503
I can vouch for Micron. I got the set that goes from 005 to 08. Good stuff. Mind you, pens means uniform line thickness, which isn't actually good per se, outside a few specific situations.

Additional options are pen nibs and loose ink. With pen nibs, a G-tip (or something like that, correct me if I'm wrong, quick search gives me nothing of value) and a wider, flat tip.

Also, it's a good idea to have a brush for large solid black areas. Small brushes can be used for the linework too, if you prefer, but especially here drawing huge and printing small is crucial.

>When you scan it, the pencil wont show up.
It's critical to scan b&w (preferably 1200dpi .bmp). Scanning in color (or even grayscale, depending on this and that) will pick up the pencil.
>>
No. 70508 ID: 34f12d

>>70395

Addressing another question of yours, consistency takes practice, but there are some things you can do that will make your life easier. If you have a character that you plan on using routinely, I suggest drawing a reference for them, and then drawing them a lot. It doesn't have to be ridiculously detailed diagram (I guess you can do this if you want) but the idea is to have something you can look at so you don't screw up or forget anything, and so you can get accustomed to drawing the character on-model.

In the process of drawing a reference you may also realize that the character's design makes no fucking sense or that you hate it. Best to get this out of the way early.

On that note, fucking character design: How does it work? Making characters look distinct starts with... well, giving them designs that don't look the same. If you find that all the characters you design look alike you could probably stand to broaden your horizons. Maybe you just need to take a crack at different body types or faces or outfits. Maybe you'd benefit from trying a different style, or drawing a kind of character you've never drawn before. Try different versions of the same character with different outfits, body types, hair styles, sickass robot arms, etc. I'm probably not one to talk but resist the urge to do the same thing forever. Some people get sucked into a trap where they just keep using the same template for everything, and if that happens, of course your characters are going to look alike. You might notice that a lot of imitation anime-style stuff suffers from this, with the same face and same body type being duplicated everywhere. (WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ON THE TABLET ONII-CHAN) Try not to do that, even if you like the things you're duplicating.
>>
No. 70522 ID: 2f4b71

Tips on scanning pencil:
1) Use a dedicated scanner. Even the cheapest standalone scanner will vastly outperform the most expensive multifunction device (combination printer/scanner/fax/copier).
2) Scan in your scanner's native DPI. going lower isn't worth the loss in data to work with, and going higher will not net any additional detail
3) TURN OFF AUTOMATIC WHITE BALANCE. In fact, turn off all the automatic assistant features (de-screen, auto-tone, auto-contrast, etc). All are tuned for scanning either photos of documents, and will never work well with lineart. You can do better in software
5) Scanning in colour will produce minimal benefit over scanning in greyscale, so go with greyscale. B&W will reduce filesize, but limit you to whatever settings you used at the time of scanning. You can turn a greyscale image into B&W in software, but not vice-versa.
6) The 'levels' command is your friend.
>>
No. 70554 ID: 4740a0

>>70395

KnifeQuest guy here. Clean is an aesthetic I work towards, because I just like to make things easily readable for the audience. When you're making things look clean, it's all about the line work. Know what brushes you work with,and learn to keep a steady hand. How I draw in KQ is somewhat different from my normal art: I use the binary tool in SAI, and use SAI's stabilize function so that I can slowly trace the sketch lines for my inks. It's a little tedious, but it gets stuff out quickly and makes things look marginally clean. I work a lot with traditional inks, so I have practice with keeping my fingers steady.

As for the image size, I draw at the resolution the images are posted at. I normally NEVER do this, because I don't like to work small (I draw big, then scale down). But since I work with the binary tool it's somewhat necessary to draw small.

For characters, it's just keeping a system. Create references if you need to. Make sure that your character is adhering to a certain model. I'll admit I don't usually follow this often for KQ (A lot of KQ is very slapdash and on the spot, which is why things like Cedric's nose getting longer over time or Bonzi's breasts shrinking happen, because it's literally just me feeling around for a more consistent design). Character design is all about just thinking about what kind of character you have and creating a design that reflects that. For example, Rella's meant to be a recluse and temperamental, so I gave her a drab sweater and scarf, with a set grumpy expression.

You don't have to be that basic, but it's always good to know a character works.
>>
No. 70570 ID: 47a120

>>70522
>5) Scanning in colour will produce minimal benefit over scanning in greyscale
That really depends on your scanner. My scanner does a lot better when scanning in color and then converting to grayscale in photoshop.
I am pretty sure a color scanner cannot even scan in grayscale, it scans in color and then automatically converts to grayscale using a built in conversion tool that might or might not be shit. Same for pixel density (massive quality increase to scan in max quiality and then downscale in photoshop)
>>
No. 70573 ID: 2f4b71

>>70570
>it scans in color and then automatically converts to grayscale using a built in conversion tool
Point, though unless the scanner was designed by a more massive incompetent than usual, each greyscale value should just be an average of the tristimulus value. Though that reminds me.

Updated rule 5) Scan in greyscale if you are drawing on white paper. Scan in colour if you're drawing on something with significant colour (e.g. lined notepaper).
>>
No. 70595 ID: 462d89

Thanks, everybody! Not to stem the flow of discussion, or anything; if anybody still has things to say, please feel free to say them.
>>
No. 70614 ID: c3663c

I've actually been thinking about what to say to explain how I personally work, but it turns out that all I know I do is slide my pen around on my tablet and hope as hard as I can.
>>
No. 70619 ID: 34f12d

>>70614

Fuckin' miracles.
>>
No. 70641 ID: ceffd5

>>70614
>Draw and pray
Heeyyy, I can do that! :)

Hmmmmm, you wouldn't happen to ever do any of those livestream things, would you? I know of some artists that do, on occasion.
>>
No. 70683 ID: c3663c

>>70641
Sometimes, but often not announced, nor do I typically do so for quest updates
>>
No. 71969 ID: f29aa1

>>70614
>>70614
>I've actually been thinking about what to say to explain how I personally work, but it turns out that all I know I do is slide my pen around on my tablet and hope as hard as I can.

You must be a literal, natural-born genius then.
How else do you explain managing to handle thousands of stats of hundreds of characters over all your quests, combined with maintaining seamless time-travel logic?

What country are you from?!
>>
No. 72022 ID: d38f67

>>71969
That is very flattering and I would have to contest against that. Any skill I have accrued has been from the result of a whole lot of time and work. It's more that I simply can't find the words to explain the haphazard means to which I do an update. Maybe I will stream it someday. Who knows.

We're in danger of going on tangents away from the thread's topic, but to answer your actual question, I'm from the US.
>>
No. 72088 ID: 5be5e7

You did cover the main point though.
In order to be successful at doing these, you need to do a lot of it.
>>
No. 72528 ID: d0864b

What would you say is a decent size for a quest image? Would 1080x600, for instance, be too big, too small or just right?
>>
No. 72543 ID: ca1c58

>>72528
I'd suggest somewhere around 900x700 or something. you don't want them to like, fill the screen completely when they're maximized. I would say even smaller than that is better. I think I usually did mine around 800X700 or 700x600 or something like that.

As long as it's big enough to fit all the details in and it doesn't require scrolling to see the whole thing for most users, I think you're golden.
>>
No. 72567 ID: 01531c

>>72543
I second this.

Rule of thumb: Shrink down your final art by a significant factor to make it look better and be easier to assimilate.
Rule of thumb Addendum: Draw your art at a significantly larger size/zoom than your screen for this purpose.

There is a technical name for this bit of trickery. Does anyone remember it?
>>
No. 72580 ID: 2f4b71

>>72567
'Downscaling' is the generic term for 'make an image/video smaller'.
>>
No. 72612 ID: d0864b

Thanks, good to know.
>>
No. 73977 ID: 5be5e7

Lots of stuff about drawing. It has a bunch of nice videos and seems comprehensive.
http://www.drawing-tutorials-online.com/
>>
No. 74023 ID: 4652c9

>>73977
Paid website. No-go.
>>
No. 74528 ID: 7797bc

So I think I might want to try running a Quest. I believe I have a solid idea for one, some mechanics for how to make it work, character concepts, events, all that stuff.

The only thing I'm lacking is art. I can't draw for shit, don't have a tablet anyway, but wouldn't really think this thing could work without any great artwork to go with it, at least not anywhere near as well as it could otherwise.

Then I noticed Humble Quest and how it managed to run for a while with a different artist and writer, and wondered whether that could possibly ever work for me I dunno.

Would this be possible? Or do I need more rep around these parts before anyone would even consider it? Is the entire suggestion absurd and would I be better off to just run it with no pictures, scribble some MSPaint shit to go with it, or enroll in an art school and bring up the subject again in three years?
>>
No. 74534 ID: 01531c

>>74528
>Is the entire suggestion absurd
YES.
>scribble some MSPaint shit to go with it
YES.
>enroll in an art school and bring up the subject again in three years?
NO.
>>
No. 74552 ID: 13d429

>>74528
This get asked a lot. I'm actually a fan of text quests, but the thing is that you can get away with scribbles and relatively simple writing in a drawn quest. In a text quest, you have to pay more attention to your writing. Though overwrought (purple) prose is bad in its own way.

There're fans of text quests on this board, but there're more fans of drawn quests. Just be aware of that. Also, there'll be people who'll urge you to do drawn quests even when you aren't good at art. Hell, just look at stuff like Puzzle Dungeon, Rubyquest/Nanquest (though that has relatively strong usage of the strengths of images and text and the combo of the two), Trout's quests. But in the end, if you force yourself to do something you don't enjoy, you'll just burn out. So do whatever's best for you, whether that's doing scribbles/doing your best at drawing/doing a text quest. If it's interesting enough, people'll follow it and make suggestions.
>>
No. 74553 ID: 7797bc

>>74552
>Rubyquest
>Bad art

I beg to differ. I think Ruby Quest's art, and Nan Quest's for that matter, is excellent and very well done. It's just minimalistic.
>>
No. 74554 ID: a01b62

NanQuest's/RubyQuest's art is exactly as detailed as necessary to be fucking frightening, and simplistic enough to be drawn in minutes during update sessions. Also, Puzzle Dungeon's art is fine, you jerk.
>>
No. 74557 ID: 13d429

>>74554
In terms of technical quality, they aren't that advanced. There're quests with far better art. But they're legible, communicate things clearly, and fairly expressive. That's what's most important for a quest.
>>
No. 74583 ID: 7797bc

>>74557
It takes a good artist to make them, still. Whether it's advanced, legible, communicating clearly, or expressive (and not all advanced arts are those next three things too), not everyone can do it. I feel that they're all equally the signs of a good artist.
>>
No. 74584 ID: 13d429

>>74583
Those're all individual artistic skills, yes. I think I misstated my point, really. More than anything, it was that what one would think of as technical skill (either realism or slick stylized art like Lagotrope's quests for example) isn't really important for a quest, though they can enhance it aesthetically. Stick figures're perfectly functional as long as you can make them express what you want/need them to.
>>
No. 74585 ID: 13d429

>>74584
Or to put it more simply and shortly: you don't need highly aesthetic art for a quest (though it's always appreciated!). Hell, the head image for this thread is another example of quest art that's good at the things quest art needs to be good at.
>>
No. 74756 ID: a01b62

Here's a more interesting and less well-tread question: How does everyone feel about quest authors making factual errors? For instance, the gun in the MRI room in Book of Worms. It's possible that Toxoglossa knew that MRIs contain strong permanent magnets, though irrelevant since everyone immediately pointed it out, so even if he didn't he included it in the story anyway (nice save!). There's the everpresent 'guns are a lot louder than most people realize' thing that lurks in any quest that has guns in it, especially stealth-focused ones. There's the murky facts about being exposed to vacuum that plague many space-oriented quests. Obviously they need not adhere strictly to reality, but there's a difference between fantasy and an alternate reality wherein magnets magically only attract non-firearm-related metals. It's impossible to know for sure at what distance the gun would have been pulled in, since I'm pretty sure no one on this board has never tried it in real life, even if they might work as an MRI technician or somesuch. Realism is generally fairly strong in quests, even if they might not necessarily reflect our version of reality, because they are largely about telling an engaging story. What do authors think about being corrected on these things by suggesters? What do suggesters think about these factual errors? What do you think about a quest persisting with these errors regardless?
>>
No. 74762 ID: f7d109

It's tricky since the story is based on a contemporary world with real life analogues and most quests are based in fantasy or some level of sci-fi, where the author gets final say on how the world works. The comments during the MRI didn't bother me though because I was able to work from them to make it a bit more realistic (I guess?)and if I remember right one of the readers actually has experience with running an MRI. The readers have the right to make a grievance or express an opinion and present facts but its a little like arguing with the DM. I tired to work with the facts, but plowed ahead despite the debate.

I say unless something happens that directly contradicts what the author has previously stated or goes against common sense, I wouldn't suggest lingering on it. I welcome any comment that inform the author of real world facts and they've been tremendously helpful, but I'm probably going to gloss over comments that I don't feel are constructive.

That being said I thought it was hilarious that the the MRI was a source of scientific debate, but Dale's ability to see polarized light is perfectly acceptable.
>>
No. 74770 ID: b5df96

>>74756
I usually justify such errors to myself as either cases of 'unreliable narrator' or 'this universe already has physics demonstrably different from our own'.

It's really only jarring when the setting is close enough to established reality, and the mistake covers specialist knowledge the character would be expected to have.
>>
No. 74778 ID: bf54a8

yeah, NEVER have something go wrong for a reason the suggesters do not know but the character does know and then blame the suggesters for not knowing. if the character knows doing X would have a different result in their world then we think they should say so before doing it, not do it and say "wow that was stupid"
>>
No. 74783 ID: 0006f5

as much as it is fresh to take advantage of how a player character losing their hearing by very common explosions and gunfights in the absence of hearing protection, that presents a real problem of 'well shit. gg ?' extending very heavily into other realistic consequences less traveled. you would have a very interesting scenario study, but a narrative with tendencies for self-destruction.

the most slobbered-over and chair-gripping realistic fiction is anything but realistic in its trespasses. they owe their excitement to relentless jabs of fridge logic that maybe should be kept that way (in the case of quest writing) to present engaging choices no matter what, critics need not apply. a good writer be damned if they are not consistent either. a writer can spin a genuine mistake into JUST AS PLANNED. a virtual reality that borrows the generalizations and expectations of human habit is one such 'cop-out' as it might be called.

>>74770
>>74778
despite this, these are really painful to think about.
>>
No. 74803 ID: a01b62

>>74762
Well, that sort of falls into what I said. It was a normal MRI machine and a normal gun, just as we know them, so it should work the same way it would work in real life. But there's obviously some supernatural shenanigans up with Radula and Dale's eyes, so there's nothing to say he wouldn't be able to see polarized light. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain shit.
>>
No. 74833 ID: 2f4b71

Yeah, sorry about the MRI pedantry, I'd just watched a terrible Sci-Fi film and was in a fell mood.

Personally, feel free to break or ignore whatever laws of physics you want, as long as you do so consistently, and not just out of lazyness (5 minutes spent on wikipedia's Orbital Mechanics page would solve at least 50% of space-movie quibbles).
>>
No. 75092 ID: 1f8505

>>74833

Does this mean I get to keep my explosive decompression? :D
>>
No. 75095 ID: e96ca9

>>75092
For vehicles? Heck yes, even 1ATM and a small hole can give some gnarly flow rates! But people don't freeze and/or explode on exposure to space, you just lose consciousness in about 10-15 seconds and get a nasty case of the Bends.
>>
No. 75119 ID: 5abf82

If I were to attempt to run a quest using "art" made in Garry's Mod or a similar game or tool, would I be stoned for incompetence and heresy?
>>
No. 75120 ID: 41690e

>>75119
You would not be. It wouldn't even be the first time someone's done it.
>>
No. 75128 ID: aef453

>>75119
Correction: You would not be stoned for incompetence or heresy, as long as you avoid falling prey to the most basic failures that I've noticed people who use Gmod for pose-screenshots do.

The pair of Unforgivable Atrocities:
1. Leaving the HUD on when you take the screenshot. (It's not that hard to remove it, and IIRC even the Camera Tool will do it when equipped.)
2. Don't shoot on gm_construct/gm_flatgrass maps. (Unless there's a very specific reason to be using them, such as actually having a quest in a Gmod setting. There's a lot of maps out there anyway, why pick a boring one that everyone knows?)
>>
No. 75319 ID: c23ab0

Never have any of your characters ever in any story or quest or work of fiction you produce say at any point in time, "So what next?"
>>
No. 75326 ID: 4652c9

Considering the medium revolves around the question, I think it's forgivable.
>>
No. 75355 ID: ca1c58

>>75319
I don't think there's anything wrong with prompting at the end of an update.
>>
No. 75842 ID: e97f9d

The cardinal sin of questing is not putting the name of your quest in the Subject field.
>>
No. 75866 ID: 444423

>>75842

but then how are we supposed to be cool and mysterious???
>>
No. 75879 ID: e9b708

>>75842
no the cardinal sin of questing is railroading into bad-end
>>
No. 75891 ID: e97f9d

>>75866
Name your quest something cool and mysterious?

>>75879
Who will read your bad end if no one can find it in the catalog and there's no name to put on the wiki?
>>
No. 75896 ID: 67bfa9

>>75891
I have never seen any need to use the catalogue ever
and I have read and followed many quests with out any problem

and the wiki is hardly required for quests, as such I've also never seen any need to update my wiki.
most of my wiki pages are completely barren(assuming they exist at all since I almost never check the wiki)
>>
No. 75897 ID: e97f9d

>>75896
I use the catalog regularly. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean other people don't or that it's not a useful tool. Frankly, I'm considering a policy where if your thread doesn't have a subject, I don't read your quest. Less hassle.
>>
No. 75899 ID: 07e3a8

As I see it the cardinal purpose of the wiki is help people find quests, and their respective threads, easily. Especially if you're trying to find interrelated quests, all the pieces of a series, or other works by an author you enjoy.

Filling pages with actual content is a secondary concern. It's nice, but not necessary. And writing articles takes more time and effort than links and indexes. Hence the barrenness on many pages.

>if there's no name to put on the wiki
Typically defaults to "<character name> Quest". Or "<key word or phase from the OP> Quest". Although I don't go making up names for quests until it's clear they're well and truly dead (and/or completed, in the very few cases that's happened).
>>
No. 75961 ID: 4a20fa

>>75842
See also: >>30470

>>75899
This. Most of the value of a quest's wiki article is in the infobox: that list of threads.
>>
No. 76337 ID: 5869f6

Now, I had an idea for a quest, what if we , /quest/, controlled sort of an army. Of old, rusted, barely functional automatons. Now, we would have to start from scratch, witha minimum of six bots, and the effective equivalent of a rusted musket and assorted construction tools to make do for weapons. For the world and it's lore, it would be at the early 1920's, tech-wise. And due to some sort of 'incident'. Automatons are distrusted and feared by the world's people. As such, (and due to /quest/'s penchent for helping others) the clockwork automotons must construct their image through various means. Be it fighting gangs, highwaymen, etc. New automotons must be created out of scavenged metal and clockwork. Quality weapons are few, and transport scarse.
I would do this myself, but there is one fatal flaw.
I can't draw worth shit.
Text-only you say? Well I can't be updating very much due to a busy schedule.
But I don't want to see this concept go to wast. So maybe someone more talented than my stupid ass can take it up. But, that's just wishfull thinking I guess.
>>
No. 76338 ID: b58bab

>>76337

there's always the option of doing a sprite quest
>>
No. 76345 ID: 5869f6

Still, there's also the fact that. Well, I'm afraid. Afraid I'll fuck up. Afraid it'll die. Afraid that won't be able to update regularly.
And there's the matter of commands for my hypothetical quest. I was thinking about the idea that commands would be followed, no matter how silly (pertaining to the laws of reality of course) due to the fact that, it's not another being we're giving suggestions, it's our own manifestations we'd be commanding.
This would also take into account actions/reactions.
Say we're feeling silly, and command our bots to suddenly start doing the Thriller, we actually do it. In a crowded, populated area. And people stop and say, 'the fuck?'. This can affect our reputation. People may se us as crazy, or just not take us seriously. Which means we would have to think about what we want to say or do. Unless we want to weird people out or alienate them.
>>
No. 76346 ID: 5a2deb

The concept of /quest/ controlling a direct manifestation of /quest/ isn't as original as you seem to think
>>
No. 76437 ID: 94aab5

Sounds like you are afraid of running a quest. The fact that you list all those things could hint that having people control each bot completely is so that you feel less responsibility.
Unfortunately, there's no way to beat fear unless you get on that horse and get goin. So go with whatever your real desire is for a quest.
Start small. Do a quest that involves a short period of in game time, and see what happens. After that, you will know if you can handle something more elaborate.
>>
No. 76463 ID: 256d52

>So go with whatever your real desire is for a quest.
Speaking of that, make sure you have a clear idea of what you want to do and where you're going with a quest. If you're hoping to leave most of the direction up to the suggesters, there's a good chance of the wheels falling off because you're not sure where you're what to do next, or it's just not a direction that captures your interest.
>>
No. 76875 ID: 34cbef

this last bit is too true, probably why i can't seem to stick to a story.
>>
No. 77565 ID: 097017

I'm a new QM and my dear teacher, Prof. Headon Brickwall, taught me some important life lessons about running a quest. While he tends to exaggerate his philosophy, the cores of his principles have rung true to me.

> "Write your damn posts on notepad first, ya doof. Retract a post to edit it and your credit score with the masses goes down the pooper."

> "Questers are like the mice from Coraline, so don't give them grief. 'we are small but we are many, we are many and we are small; we were here before you rose, we will be here when you fall.' "

> "Trolling is for questers and suggesters. You are in a role of responsibility, like the Captain of a pirate ship. One false move and kkkkcccttt *finger slides across neck*"
>>
No. 77656 ID: d38f67

>Retract a post to edit it and your credit score with the masses goes down the pooper.
I'd take a quest credit hit sooner than I'd leave lines like 'Alison decides to go out hunting, as she is in great need of ass.' intact. True story, by the way.

Relatedly, the letter 'm' is an important member of the alphabet, and I would recommend its use as much as I would recommend proofreading.
>>
No. 77675 ID: 097017
 

I appreciate the advice, bit that last bit about 'm' is lost on me.
>>
No. 77677 ID: d315b1

>>77675
>Alison decides to go out hunting, as she is in great need of ass.
>>
No. 77692 ID: fc937d

(m)ass.

As for redactions, how reasonable they are kind of depends on how quick you catch them (and what kind of thing you're changing). If there's already a wall of suggestions based on your initial post, it's a little harder to delete, and probably not worth it for small grammar or spelling errors. Asking a mod to edit posts is a thing, though, if you really need it.

I have no idea what the intent or message of the mouse message is supposed to be, so I can't comment.

As for trolling... that's a mixed bag. There are many ways to run a quest. The author does have certain responsibilities, and there are most certainly ways to alienate people, but it's certainly possible to find ways to have your fun. I'd say to find a reader / writer relationship that works for you.
>>
No. 77915 ID: 7bbaae

>>77692
On that subject I think I'd like to emphasize here that the suggesters are NOT your enemies and you should not, as an author, think of them as such.
>>
No. 77925 ID: 64dd23

>>77915
you have obviously never ran Tomb of Horrors to a group of players
>>
No. 77934 ID: 7bbaae

>>77925
Tabletop gaming is a different sort of experience, isn't it?
>>
No. 77954 ID: 36c336

>>77925
>>77934

Tomb of Horrors is a very oppositional game scenario: The players aren't populating the game-world with character-building, preferences and content suggestions so much as wargaming against a pre-defined scenario filled with earnestly lethal (game-ending) challenges.

Questing can do that, or it can be more collaborative, depending on what the QM tries to do and how the players contribute. Tabletop doesn't have to be strictly oppositional either.
>>
No. 78124 ID: ba8629

Adversarial GMing is problematic because it's not difficult to beat the PCs when you control everything.

"We go into a tavern."
"There is a dragon."
"We quickly go outside."
"There is a dragon."
>>
No. 78127 ID: 36c336

>>78124
Unquestionably. It's also true that without conflicts and interesting choices your players/audience have little to participate in besides making up stuff themselves and arguing about it.
I'm only a tabletop GM so don't presume my experience generalizes perfectly here. However, I find that the main question is finding a really good set of linked conflicts that can drive lasting engagement and useful participation.
>>
No. 78128 ID: 761017

>>78124
>>78127
>>77954
Adversial GM'ing can be made a great thing!

The key is for the GM to first limit his challenges to the already present "in-universe" resources available in the current scenario, and second to allow the players' cleverness and critical rolls to play out as fully as reasonably possible within "in-universe" constraints!
>>
No. 78151 ID: 4a20fa

>>78124
It can be great when it works, though. See: good games of Paranoia. Just...also see: bad games of Paranoia.
>>
No. 78173 ID: 36c336

>>78128
>Adversial GM'ing can be made a great thing!
>The key is for the GM to first limit his challenges to the already present "in-universe" resources available in the current scenario, and second to allow the players' cleverness and critical rolls to play out as fully as reasonably possible within "in-universe" constraints!

So, you're saying that adversarial GMing works when you're not actually doing adversarial GMing, but instead running an adversarial scenario with sufficient challenge that the players don't get bored of it, and then running it in a simulationist way that dispassionately allows the players to win or fail on their own merits?

I think you're overusing videogame logic, but that is a usable way to try to run things. It isn't the greatest for writing a coherent story, but that can be a good thing. One of the problems with that is players trying to jump outside your world limits: Sequence breaking can easily make them chump things that were supposed to be challenging, or get chumped by things that weren't supposed to beat them. You also have to have a good answer to the question, "What happens when the players fail?" Save and reload is one possible concept to drop in here.

>>78151
Counterpoint: All Call of Cthulhu campaigns should eventually end with the players failing and the world ending. To do otherwise would break the setting.
>>
No. 78197 ID: bd48c5

You know you read too many damn quests when Tozols end up camped out in your dreams.

Also,>>78173, what if the Investigators are going down to the corner store to pick up a jug of milk>
>>
No. 78205 ID: 36c336

>>78197
Dunno. If you wanted to do comedy you could have a fishman pretending to be human (badly) reprise of Clerks perhaps.
>>
No. 78257 ID: 097017

>>77915
Ah, I see I should have clarified.

What I meant by that quote was that Authoring and creating is of itself a huge aberration in nature. It's like the weirdest thing since life itself. I was trying to convey that suggesters are in a far more naturally occurring role than questfellows are; not that they are ravenous varmints waiting for the opportunity to strike.

Quests are always outlived by their suggesters are by their nature a very temporary condition; they are born, they live their course and then are laid to rest in the archive. But the state of spectation is eternal, because there will always be something or someone watching.

For example, when you were young they did a thing in class called show and tell, yes? Some kids were good at it and told crazy stories about their summer vacation in the distant jungles of Shangri-La while they show the traditional charm necklaces the natives carved for them. Then there were guys and girls like you and me who walked up there and said "My mom took me to the local beach. There I found this rock." The first kid found his or her place on the stage, while most of us would agree we were more comfortable playing the role of the audience. Most of the human population is still convinced their job is to do the mundane dirty work that 'someone's got to do' in the sidelines and out of the spotlight, while generations before and after them have and will think the same thing.

So you see, there always has been and always will be a audience long before and after there was ever a feature presentation; there audience is always longer lived and more plentiful than the performers; its the fundamental state of the universe is to act only when necessary and, above all, observe.
>>
No. 78263 ID: 36c336

>>78257
You take that back! How dare you claim we are not ravenous varmints waiting for the opportunity to strike! I submit the following as evidence, of how we tried to ravenously end Larro's 'highbrow' Mallo Quest in a totally varminty way:
(NSFW, silly and immature.)
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/244073.html#301370
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/res/244073.html#301462
>>
No. 78499 ID: 5ce288

Any advice for running a quest from the villain's perspective? (Like a really legitimately horrible villain) Will suggester go for it, or do you think they'll try to sabotage the villian protagonist?
>>
No. 78501 ID: ebe087

>>78499
Usually they try to redeem people.

If they go bad, there's a tendency to go overboard too. Make sure you don't let it get saturday morning cartoony.
>>
No. 78502 ID: db2b05

>>78499

A few options I like:

1. Disguise them. Give what they're doing the appearance of righteousness. Don't show the full consequences of their actions until after it's too late. Give them an understandable or even relatable motive. Give them a goal that sounds noble. Make the ends justify the means, or at least appear to justify them, so you or the suggesters can pick apart what the protagonist has done later.

2. Make their perception of reality inaccurate, either due to insanity or tampering by outside forces. Design their mission so that their actions make sense within the confines of their delusional, hallucinatory personal world, but don't show the players what's really happening until it's useful to do so. (And once again, too late to stop the protagonist.) It's arguable whether your villain is actually evil in this case, but whether they are or not, to themselves they will appear justified no matter what they've been doing, even if what they've been doing is horrible.

3. Failing either of the above, have your villain commit their misdeeds with such flair that nobody wants to root against them, especially if their adversaries are at least as bad if not worse than they are. When there aren't any good guys, being a bad guy is relative, but style trumps almost everything.

(Also keep in mind that there are certain lines most people simply won't cross. Your players may have a hard time sticking with a villain that's too far out there.)
>>
No. 78503 ID: 1284b7

(Full disclosure; I don't know shit but I like words.)

>>78501
I think this is mostly right, and I have a hunch as to why:
People want goals.

Most villains in fiction don't have any real motivations. Sure they may try to take over the world or or kill the hero, but they never seem to have any sound reason beyond "I'm evil".

So without a clear character for the villain, most suggesters (and authors) will invent a token cause - usually either being as "evil" as possible, or becoming "good".

For that reason, I strongly disagree with: >>78502
The ideas listed there aren't ways to make a "villain plot device" into a "villain character", they're just ways to try to make a villain less villainous.

It seems to me that if you want to make a villain that suggesters will accept, then you need to give them the history and motivations to actually WANT to capture the macguffin. Once they have that, The villain becomes an actual character that suggesters can work with, rather than a void they have to fill.

I think suggesters will happily carry a villain they can understand.
>>
No. 78506 ID: 36c336

>>78499
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Tory%27s_Tower
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Earth_Defense_Force

Here's two dead examples that lasted. How people react depends on the details, in particular the background/circumstances that caused them to become a villain and their motivations for remaining one. As always, if you develop a strong enough personality that character's reaction to quest responses can be planned in such a way to favour a redemption storyline, or something else.
>>
No. 78511 ID: db2b05

>>78503

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that you just take a villain and then sand the edges off of them. Let's break this down here.

In the first example, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This doesn't make the villain less villainous if it's done correctly. (Though it's also a good way to start a redemption arc if that's your goal.) Maybe it's ennobling at first, but later maybe it just underscores how arrogant, deluded, and self-absorbed your monster really is. There's a lot to be said about a bad guy who thinks he's doing the right thing and seriously, truly, unrepentantly believes it.

In the second, maybe your 'hero' is actually crazy. When you're playing around in a medium where running off into the night to slay monsters is considered normal, consider a situation where it actually isn't. Now play it completely straight from the so-called hero's perspective. I don't know how far you'd get with a David Berkowitz quest but it's food for thought. (More broadly, ask yourself, what do monsters see? A recently popular game example of this is 'Off', which combines examples one and two. It's heavily implied by the end that the Batter is literally a horrible monster, and the only person who can't see it is him.)

The third example is the bread and butter of crime dramas and gangland films. No matter how bad your bad guy is, they should be fun and the player should be able to form some kind of attachment to them. That's a rule you could and probably should follow in any case, but the villain's charms will have to work double duty if their goals are purely selfish and their actions have no other (palatable) explanation. There's a reason that the 1983 'Scarface' has stayed so popular over the years. Tony wasn't a good guy by any stretch of the imagination. He was a ruthless drug dealer, a murderer, and an all around prick and he knew it. Almost everything about him shows us that he's an absolute creep and a total scumbag, but people love him anyway.

What we do agree on is that your villain needs to be a character. How the author does that is up to them, and this is hardly an exhaustive list of options, just ones that I personally enjoy seeing.
>>
No. 78518 ID: 36c336

>>78499
>>78506
I neglected to mention another serious issue with villains: Verisimilitude.
Are they supposed to be a flatly-unrealistic cartoon villain? Are they instead supposed to be a real person with a background and motivations that make actual sense? There's good reasons to go either way (or both) in fiction, but communicating clearly about how serious or realistic your work is, or *isn't* is important. Giving them mundane, or 'mundane' life details helps clarify this for both yourself and your players (as long as you do leave sufficient room and flexibility for character and world development).

Let's bring this back to your original question: You tell the players indirectly, and at times directly as well, what sort of responses are appropriate by filling out the details of your characters and their world. If you're stuck on how to go from that general idea to specific implementations then let's talk specifics.
>>
No. 78952 ID: 5ce288

This is really delayed, but I wanted to thank everyone for the feedback. It helped me in my project planning.
>>
No. 79521 ID: 24eceb

I just found out how amazing the "expand all images" function is if you have a good internet connection.
I wanted to ask: Do people use it regularly? Should I make my images a tad bit smaller so they fit better with expanded images turned on?
>>
No. 79526 ID: b386b4

>>79521

I would say yes.
>>
No. 79675 ID: 5ce288

>>79521
I have been enjoying most of the quests I've read with the expand all images function. I don't think it could hurt to adjust.
>>
No. 79778 ID: 53ba34

interesting thing on using dice rolls
http://pastebin.com/MhwpNLBm
>>
No. 79793 ID: d9d1e5

>>79778
i like the bit about mitigated rolls a lot. i've been struggling with figuring out a fair way to add uncertainty to things which are extremely difficult to predict in real life, even when abstracted over an extended bout.
>>
No. 79871 ID: 7400f2

>>79778
The combat resolution recommendations are clearly geared toward 4chan (where you're more likely to see the kind of activity that will end a thread in less than a day). That said, they do provide decent general guidelines for quests that don't have tactical minigames (like the assorted quests that have combats run like tile-based wargames.

The distinction between partial and full failures/successes can be absolutely golden. Some TG games make good use of this, like Apocalypse World and its derivatives for example. AW also has a pretty good way of looking at failures: they're never simple failures. Something interesting always happens (basically the GM gets handed an opportunity to make the situation more urgent/dramatic/etc.).
>>
No. 79891 ID: 379075

>>79778 >>79793 and >>79871
As a dice & paper GM I have something to say about this. I agree with what it has to say mostly, but would add a couple things.
-Every time you surrender creative control to dice you're still responsible for the results. The quality of suggestions from questers already varies a lot and serves as another set of random chance before you go reaching for dice. On top of this crit-success and crit-failure can still have a worthwhile role but you should think about your possible scenario-ends before they happen. Failing to plan far enough ahead could have Beowulf trip and fall on his seax jamming it in his eye socket, and the dragon laughing. Maybe you want that, but maybe you don't.
-The best times to use dice are when you're presenting a particular gimmick to someone else (Las Vegas craps tables make a lot of money) or to help with decisions where you have no strong reason to favour one option over another. When you understand this deeply enough you generally won't want or need advice on how to handle die rolling except maybe for details about how the math and probability works.
>>
No. 80202 ID: 3fb8e5
File 139476154919.png - (28.06KB , 800x600 , survey.png )
80202

Hey everyone. I put together a three-question survey to help gauge interest in some potential quest ideas!

I would great appreciate a bit of input from the real deal (actual quest readers). Thanks!

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NGV2MD7
>>
No. 80236 ID: c841ea

>>80202
>Please choose the quest premise that you would be MOST interested in seeing from RML.
>A bored housewife
>A lonely god
>A band of insurgents
>A 1960s rock band
>A desperate womanizer
>A super heroine
Those are character ideas rather then premises. what are those characters doing? what is the setting like? any more info?
>>
No. 80285 ID: f461c5

>>80202

Here is what I want to see: a group of civil war soldiers is sent to infiltrate an enemy fort, one of whom is the protagonist for the first part of the scene. After eventually being caught, they are hung. They wake up buried, and after digging their way to the surface, they find it to be several years later. now each of them are capable of receiving directions from the players, and they eventually find out that they are dead.

Or, you know, any other games set in the Deadlands setting.
>>
No. 80497 ID: 4a20fa

Suggesters: For pity's sake, learn to sage if you absolutely must post in an inactive quest thread.

But, better yet, don't. 99% of the time it isn't a suggestion, so put it in the discussion thread.
>>
No. 80729 ID: ba8629

Do you write first and then draw, or draw, then write?
>>
No. 80731 ID: d470e9

>>80729
Write, then draw. Then maybe rewrite and redraw.
>>
No. 80767 ID: cee89f

>>80497
Oh THAT'S what that means!
>>
No. 80816 ID: 8dbc01

>>80729
i write, then draw - but usually by the time i start writing i've already spent some time imagining what i want the illustrations to look like, so i guess it's a little of both.
>>
No. 80834 ID: 100739

>>80729
I kinda do Both at the same time, normaly the actions play out in my head as suggested by the players, i then write the characters thoughts to contextualize the actions within the quest.
>>
No. 80879 ID: 5bf190

>>80729

Outline in my head, sketch panels, draw panels, write text.
>>
No. 80904 ID: f12e94

>>80879
I've gotta ask, what the heck did you do to level up your memory and imagination to over nine thousand like that? Most people can't draw comics without a firm outline/script to work from, and stuff like character and art references. Without all that it's my experience that most people get minor details, and not-so-minor details, inconsistent/wrong.
>>
No. 81001 ID: a32d59

>>80729
Since Dreams and Decay is a collaboration, our situation is a bit different than most. I write, and then Uplifted draws after reading what I've written. Usually, after all suggestions are in, we discuss more-or-less what's going to happen, so we're both basically prepared. Sometimes, we have very different ideas about what certain frames should look like, though, and it can be very difficult!

Uplifted is a very talented artist, but he's also very stubborn! I am very stubborn too, though, and we've had our share of Dreams and Decay-related arguments. But we always find some way to work it out, and I'm very pleased with the art of the quest. He's also great for bouncing ideas off of, especially when I have writer's block. He's also had some really interesting ideas about characters that have made their way into the quest.

Basically, the moral of the story is: Collaborations are really hard, but they are definitely worth it!
>>
No. 81185 ID: f12e94
File 139838798024.gif - (105.32KB , 600x914 , bling_dorado.gif )
81185

Mostly making sure I know how images go on a post, but this is something that someone should make a quest out of.
>>
No. 83592 ID: a8a726

An ever relevant question: How are faster updates made?!
>>
No. 83601 ID: 53548a

>>83592
Design characters that can be drawn more quickly, reuse assets like backgrounds or characters, cut down on the detail or length of your updates, and draw them more so you feel more confident doing it.
>>
No. 84264 ID: 186341

Use SketchUp or Blender to help with perspective and rooms. They're both free.
>>
No. 84559 ID: 00b2db

So when I ran a quest with out having a pre-made setting/plot of some sort I quickly out thought my self.

How do people prepare for running a quest? Or are you guys just so awesome you can come up with stuff on the fly?
>>
No. 84574 ID: bbecc4

>>84559
For Legends of Tharsia I started with a vague idea of what's supposed to happen. Then I add or remove plot and plot hooks as necessary, and basically just winging it.
Ouroboros is a bit different, since the beginning is quite defined in my head, but the subsequent events is wholly up to the players. I have set 'plot' points for the future though, but it depends on the players if we even reach those points or not.
>>
No. 84582 ID: 874468

>>84559
As a GM/DM the way I'd prepare for tabletop was to have a solid idea of the world they were working in, including setpiece location-assets, a number of main characters with agendas, a number of minor characters with agendas, and then I set my players loose with a few main threads to follow. I then hinted or joked like, "Beyond that hill you see the green of the green screen and you know that the production budget didn't cover making that part of the world," or, "The set here looks hastily finished and the paint is still drying, it is obvious you should stay away for at least one more session while the GM finishes the last details."
>>
No. 84669 ID: f74bb7

How soon is too soon to start a discussion thread for your own quest?
>>
No. 84677 ID: 53548a

>>84669
It would probably best if you only made a dis thread when your players actually discuss the quest, enough that it distracts from the quest itself.
>>
No. 84767 ID: ff4834

What are the options for makeing a quest with multiple MC in one place work?
>>
No. 84770 ID: f5d4f7

>>84767
Focus on one MC per 'scene', then switch to another?
Alternatively, get them all to do something during a decision-point.
What do you guys think?
>>
No. 84798 ID: 95774e

>>84767
I can recall seeing examples of four different options for multiple-character focus questing:
-Focus main-character with sidekicks that the players don't address directly
-Voluntarily switchable character focus
-Involuntarily switching character focus
-Non-specific character, or nonexistent third person, perspective (I.E. tabletop wargaming style, also the way many JRPGs work where you control the 'party' and have limited direction on what the characters do but they act out their own character and reactions)
>>
No. 84875 ID: 3009b4

Should chapters always be posted as a separate subject? It seems to be a good idea; there's well over 100 posts on my first chapter of Nem's Quest (http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/589725.html) but I just want to make sure that's the right thing to do. I mean, maybe I should break up the posts more or less frequently?
>>
No. 84877 ID: cf7c82

>>84875
>Should chapters always be posted as a separate subject?
No, you can start a chapter in a middle of a thread if the chapters are short. See
http://tgchan.org/wiki/Tozol_Quest
http://tgchan.org/wiki/MudyQuest (first 8 chapters in a thread)
http://tgchan.org/kusaba/quest/res/587470.html (for a more recent example)
>there's well over 100 posts on my first chapter of Nem's Quest
Relatively speaking 100 posts is very little for a single thread, look at the front page: out of the 20 threads, there are 11 with over 200 posts, one of them with over 500. Look at the archive (http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/catalog.html) many quest authors settle between 300 and 500 posts before starting another thread, with some going over 1000.
Then again,your thread have 212 replies, which isn't that low.
>maybe I should break up the posts more or less frequently?
Most of the posts are suggestions and most of your updates are single posts, cutting the number of breaks won't reduce the total number of posts significantly.
>>
No. 84880 ID: 487455

>>84767
>>84770
You can also allow suggesters just to talk to multiple characters at a time. (Although when you've established the audience as the in-head creations of one character, you sort of need something that justifies their expansion).

Then there's the give all the perspective characters their own threads and run em simultaneously approach. Which works, although it can get messy on the proper reading order for anyone following after.
>>
No. 85241 ID: 03b060

For people running multiple quests, is it better to give one quest more focus than the others, or try to keep rotating the updates?
>>
No. 85255 ID: 13d5ea

>>85241
i currently run five and i TRY to keep updates even, but you'll probably find that there'll be one or two that you're just unavoidably a lot more invested in (for me it's loretta and sad girl club.) when that's the case, i dont FORCE myself to keep update order if i only feel like updating those two. but you might also find yourself naturally keeping them pretty even because having many quests allows you to alleviate boredom/stagnation if you start getting tired of your "main" quests.
>>
No. 85256 ID: 13d5ea

>>85241
tldr it depends on your attention span and whether or not you like one or more a lot better than the others - but really at the end of the day it's gonna be hectic no matter what you do so you might as well just pick whatever method makes you feel the most excited about updating.
>>
No. 85476 ID: 2bdeac

how does one resurrect a "dead" quest?
>>
No. 85490 ID: 2fd516

>>85476
If it's in the graveyard, you simply have to ask a mod to bring it out so you can update it. The quickest way would be to go on IRC and ask there.
>>
No. 85626 ID: d8a627

Are there "Public domain" gods for TGChan, that any quest author can take and use/mention in their quest? If it doesn't yet exist, but people are interested in throwing gods at it, would it then get its own thread?
>>
No. 85663 ID: bdfae0

>>85626
IDK, but go ahead and make a thread about it. Gods for hire also sounds like a quest plot or something.
>>
No. 85685 ID: 59295a

>>85663
Gods for Hire sounds like a great name for a superhero (antihero?) mercenary team.
>>
No. 85729 ID: ccd544

>>85685
An analogue to the "Devil May Cry" agency, perhaps?
>>
No. 85994 ID: ce90c3

>>85626
The gods that we have are mostly setting specific, but fairly free game within that context. We essentially write fanfics about dwarf fortress or elder scrolls in that case.

The closest thing we have to a community setting is the old Rastin-Vresch unfied setting continuity. There is a small stockpile of demgods available, but those quests didn't often stray toward the divine that I recall. Once upon a time, like half the quests on the site were referencing that same continuity, from Romanticar to The Protagonist Dies.

There was one quest where the suggesters were all minor gods whispering to the protagonist, and we got some fun original divinity characterizations, but I dont think those are really free game.
>>
No. 86013 ID: 9dd1ee

The Living Gods in Silken Vale (If I ever get around to doing the actual quest part) are pretty much open source
>>
No. 86166 ID: 020c33

i don't know if anyone still looks at this,
but do ya'll think a quest with especially deadly situations, where every time the character tg controls dies, you get a new one.

i'm real hesitant since first of all i'd do it text based; and second i'm worried people wont like a quest where they get attached to characters who are constantly getting killed.

although it seemed to work for game of thrones
>>
No. 86336 ID: 602cd8

>>86166
I'd say it would work, although I always believe just about anything can work if it's done right.

I'd just suggest to make it clear that death is going to come fast and easy. Involvement in a character might feel cheapened if said character suddenly dies unceremoniously; and the unpleasantness of this can be mitigated somewhat just by knowing it's likely to happen at the getgo than getting blindsided by it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in game of thrones or basically anything not a collaborative comic/quest is that the audience has no control over the situation or character. In a quest, though, the audience will (presumably) be trying to get the the character to survive, and it will likely be demoralizing if their efforts are swept under the rug if the character dies in a way they could not have prevented. So, I would suggest that the quest take care in what way the traps are deadly - one way would be to make it possible to complete the quest with a single character, if extremely improbable. Make a death come with a 'if only we ____, that character could still be alive', where blank is any action/observation/verb that the suggesters could have reasonably done with the information supplied to them before the character died.

Another issue the quest might have is how freely new characters come, that is, if there's any penalty for dying or not. For one where death is commonplace, it shouldn't be much, but if death is meaningless, then characters may become expendable, and they'll be less a sapient creature with a wife and kids and more of a trap-tester so the next trap-tester can test another trap further up the path. This is probably fine if you want the quest to be more about the dungeon/labyrinth/whatever than the characters, in which you can make the characters more or less 2 dimensional. If you want it to be character based, though, then I will say you don't need to make a death penalty anything mechanical - if you succeed in making a character likeable, interesting and worth keeping, having that character die will be a nasty death penalty in of itself for the players. If this is the case, it will be important to at least have the chance of having that character live through it all.

This could give rise to another problem though in that it will be increasingly difficult to get players to get invested if characters do end up dying off at every new passage. I have not read/watched Game of Thrones, so I don't know, but I get the impression there are a lot of characters - so even when one likeable character dies, there is probably at least one other likeable character people can throw their hopes of liking-something-forever on. A dungeon-crawl type of quest that feature 1 character at a time will give a very circular approach of 'this character is new and has 0 likeability thus far. after some time, this character will have lots of love and effort put into his survival, but then he dies, and that's it. now there is a new character with 0 likeability and time put into him or her.' repeating this cycle can get old. It can be mitigated by having the dungeon be crawled by multiple people at once, though, so that not all of the eggs are placed in a single basket at any given point in time.

Bottom line I'm giving is that if this quest is character based, always have the players have some hope at least one likeable character can make it through. If the focal point is the dungeon, then have something dungeon-related to make deaths meaningful instead of just having each death immediately be followed by a new character that, for all intents and purposes is functionally the exact same as the previous character and may as well be the same character came back from the dead to try the same thing.

Disclaimer; I spat out all these words with little proofreading and zero research. Everything I've said I imagine has some argument against it, and there's a lot more that could be said on top.

There was one quest I believe that did something like this; but I cannot remember the name of it.
>>
No. 86390 ID: 4d85c5

I think have been several variants on disposable character dungeon crawling quests, but Idiom's is the one that sticks in my mind.

http://tgchan.org/wiki/Imprisoned_Adventures

Characters were so disposable we took to naming them with number puns for a while.
>>
No. 86748 ID: 72c7be

So I return bearing tidings of great updates, peace on earth and goodwill towards humanity.

Actually just minor quest updates. Regardless my thread died in the huge lapse of appearance here and I need to get it revived. What's the best way to go about doing that?
>>
No. 86773 ID: a79844

>>86748

Go onto the IRC and ask a moderator to remove it from the graveyard I do believe.
>>
No. 87974 ID: 482c6a

i need urgent help, i need to reset my passwords as nothing i try seems to be accepted and i cant post nor delete without it..
>>
No. 88151 ID: 742b4a

>>87974
You don't need a password to post. You can just report a post for deletion if your password gets reset (it happens to everyone occasionally).
>>
No. 89127 ID: 890dfb

No one's replying to my quest and I don't wanna update just to bump, what should I do?
>>
No. 89164 ID: 0a9f97

Which quest?
>>
No. 89175 ID: 256d52

>>89127
A lack of responses is often due to an ambiguous or unimportant decision. Either the suggesters aren't sure what they should be doing next (so just move on or present new information), or it's a meaningless decision that should really be avoided (for example picking between two identical doors).
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No. 89201 ID: 551346

How do I bring a thread back from the graveyard? It won't let me post, says invalid thread id.
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No. 89241 ID: 256d52

>>89201
Ask a mod. Jumping into the IRC is generally your best bet.
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No. 89509 ID: 3d274b

Well, I have some questions, and some of them may seem obvious (and maybe they are)... Well, here they are:

-Bumping should be used for some reason? (Speaking as a normal user, being an author or not).
-How much time should I give between decisions in a quest?
-How much do you take to make images for the quests?
-Should I draw detailled images (taking my time in painting everyting, for example) or trying to make them faster (Avoiding "unnecessary" details)?

Sorry if any of this was asked already.
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No. 89523 ID: 256d52

>>89509
As a rule you shouldn't bump a thread. It's not going to make an update come any faster and threads take months to fall into the graveyard. In my experience, most suggestions come in within 24 hours of an update. A simple art style is usually better; you want to avoid creating too much work for yourself and keep updates steady.
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No. 89530 ID: bd8b82

would like to add that there is a difference between bumping and being late to the party. if the quest is on page two or three and not that long since an update, then adding a new suggestion is fine.
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No. 89597 ID: 60700b

>>15880
Should there be a section on running multiple quests, like how not to "burn out"?

Just wondering.
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No. 89599 ID: fa3e19

>>89597
IMHO, running two at a time is the balance. Update time could also factor in. I find that running two quests which updates alternately each week (or once every two week, from another viewpoint) prevents much burnout, since you switch between the two, and not too long enough that the readers stay interested. If you can update faster then you could run more, but run the risk of juggling story lines and image quality.
But don't forget that burnout will eventually get to you. If that happens and you hit a writer's block, either take a hiatus and/or explain so on the discussion page. And sometimes, real life conspires against you, trying to shake you off the creative spark. Keep it alight! Even if it's just a small ember, store it in a mental tinderbox, you might rekindle it in the future.
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No. 89844 ID: f75cf9
89844

So this is really a technical question more than adviseworthy but, I'm trying to reuse an image for another post (it's just full black) but it won't let me because "duplicate file entry detected".
I tried putting the URL into the embed field but that doesn't seem to work either. It just kinda derps out the php (takes me to a blank page).
So how do I do this?
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No. 89853 ID: 602cd8

>>89844
The short answer is that you don't. The site detects identical files within the thread - in other words, reusing the exact same image is exactly the problem. You either need to use a different shade, or do an alternative towards using a solid black fill.
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No. 89866 ID: e3d9fb

>>89844
Pick a pixel at random and make it #010000
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No. 90049 ID: 207923

Well, Looks like My ID is always changing and I don't quite know why.

Will it be a problem?
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No. 90062 ID: e3d9fb

>>90049
>My ID is always changing
IDs are derived from IP addresses. So for whatever reason, your IP address must be getting changed regularly.

>Will it be a problem?
No.
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No. 90063 ID: 6a6b12

how drastic is the difference in audience number with regards to running quests on tgchan versus /tg/?
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No. 90101 ID: 2f4b71

>>90063
Over time? It's probably fairly even. The more popular quests in /tg/ might just about hit 100 unique visitors per thread. I'm not sure how many unique visitors tgchan gets (Dylan? You got analytics running?) but, speaking for myself at least, we tend to follow a whole load of quests at once, and at least start out reading any new ones that arrive.
On the other hand, /tg/ is a lot faster paced than tgchan. On /tg/ you'll get a whole lot of people reading for a few hours as you run a thread, whereas here that may be spread over the course of a few days or a week.
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No. 90177 ID: 248a2d

This is probably a weird question, but I haven't seen it asked anywhere in this thread. What is the general consensus of mature-themed quests? Those with blood, nudity or sexual content. I've seen very few quests that contain all three to any explicit degree, especially the latter. Though I'm pretty sure it's allowed judging by the rules. Is it just typically frowned upon? Most quests I've seen were more teasing than anything. Even one that was so affectionately titled "Rape Quest".
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No. 90182 ID: a1caa1

>>90177
Well I think I've read an old quest here that has all three, Derpsert Buttventure was it? But that was 2012, idk about recent policies.
That said, there seems to also be some kind of gentleman's agreement that sexual content (as in, actual pornographic depiction of sex) are rarely put up by quest authors. Maybe the fact that what could be considered as 4chan's 'underageb&' age demography also browse this site also helps enforcing that rule. But of course, this is a *chan board after all, so I guess the gentleman's agreement on nudity and graphic violence is a bit more lax.
Another argument for it is that tgchan used to be an alternative site for 4chan's /tg/ guys, and since /tg/ is a blue board, some of that 'keep it SFW' mentality is kinda carried over here. Dunno if that's the case or not, but there you have it, two valid hypotheses.
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No. 90198 ID: bd8b82

>>90177
>>90182
it's not a gentleman's agreement, it's just most of the time blatant sex quests are very badly written, and people here want to spend their time reading/telling stories not telling a dude which hole to stick it in. so if you can make a really good quest that has a lot of sex, more power to you.
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No. 90199 ID: bb68f0
File 142875804150.png - (162.84KB , 600x388 , pornperception.png )
90199

>>90198
>>90182
>>90177

It's not that sex quests aren't allowed, but quests that have sexual content as a focus generally don't do well. Quests that incidentally include sex are fine, you just need to be careful not to let it overtake the whole thing.

I have a theory about this. I've said it before elsewhere, but I'm going to explain here as well because it relates to questing in general.

See, quests rely on suggestions to keep them going - though the author has the most control over the quest in the end, they need to at least keep the appearance of following reader suggestion, and in most cases try to do that legitimately. If a lot of the suggesters are pushing for a particular course of action, then the author will also feel obligated to follow the majority opinion; if the author chooses to follow the path that was unpopular with the audience, and they don't present a good reason for doing so, they'll probably lose readers.

Sexual content creates a potential problem thanks to this, because the readers' suggestions can be influenced strongly by how horny they are. Those players who are most in the mood for reading sexual content will make more sexual suggestions, and as they are indulged and they get even more in the mood than they will push for further and more extreme sexual content. As this happens, though, those readers who aren't horny at that time become more likely to just stop reading, because sex alone doesn't satisfy them and, depending on the specific content, may actively repulse them. And, if that happens, they probably won't say so, they'll just stop reading, and stop suggesting. So, what sex in a quest can lead to is a downward spiral where the only people who are reading and suggesting are the ones who are interested in the sexual elements. The problem with that is, most people are only interested in sex when they're in the mood for it, and when they're not, they'll go away. You can end up with a quest starved of any suggestions that actually forward the plot, and which is inaccessible to new readers unless they happen to just want to see the porn. And you have to consider that, for the author themselves, their interest in writing/drawing sexual scenes will wax and wane with their mood - you can end up with readers pushing for sex when the author has gotten tired of it, and an author who is in the mood can be more prone to focusing over-much on the sexual elements and not putting as much care into everything else the quest needs.

Now, it's not impossible to have a good quest with sex in it! But it needs to engage the reader's non-sexual interests even during the sexual scenes. For example, Brom has had sex in his quests and done well, but Brom is a very good writer who spends a lot of time building up our interest in the characters and their relationships, and the sexy scenes tend to involve something interesting besides the act itself, such as humor or character development or suchlike. If you think that you too can manage something like that, then go ahead.

But, quests being what they are, there will always be some suggesters pushing for unnecessary sexual elements, and it can be a strong temptation to indulge them. Some indulgence now and then is fine, but if you allow sex to become the focus - for the quest to become a porn quest, effectively - then you can easily find that, in the long term, people will lose interest, and the quest dies.
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No. 90201 ID: 57f0ac

>>90177
I ran a quest with all three once. i would highly recommend it if you want to feel like human garbage about a month into running it before dropping it and giving up questing for good because you can never un-run the thing you just did and it will be associated with you forever because Internet never forgets
would not recommend
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No. 90202 ID: 0ee153

>>90201
Is that you, Trout? Because I still think there was nothing wrong with Boa and Grennie.
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No. 90203 ID: 57f0ac

>>90202
not trout no
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No. 90205 ID: 296917

>>90203
Why don't you just say what quest it was? I would suspect you're talking about Limit of Flesh but that ran for almost 3 months. Also I think Cirr is more associated with his other more popular quests, like Resonance or Reformation.

Also regardless, I've found that people don't associate authors with their mistakes unless they keep making that mistake over and over, or if the readers disagree that it was a mistake at all and so it becomes a controversy.
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No. 90218 ID: e607cd

>>90205
let the guy hide in his anonymity, mang.
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No. 90326 ID: aca445
File 142916730923.png - (11.21KB , 950x950 , trout idk.png )
90326

>>90202
>>90205
>>90218
Guys
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No. 90504 ID: 1a4c53

What would you say is the "right" amount of planning and preparation to do before beginning a moderate length quest?
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No. 90508 ID: a19cd5

>>90504
Entirely variable. From what I understand rubyquest started with no planning and eventually snowballed into planning. For me, I plan out a beggining and a couple potential endings, maybe the setting.

Think of it like an RPG: Setting first, then plot. Keep it vague to give yourself room to breathe, but well defined enough to have specific rules governing the quest apply.
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No. 90542 ID: 0426fe

I'm thinking of running a game in Apocalypse World, and I'm wondering if people here have experience with converting real life geography to game maps. The setting is 'after the collapse of the modern world' and has mutants, ruins and psychic powers as default setting elements. That means I can't just look up Google streetview for stuff since it's all supposed to have something like sixty years of after-the-crash decay on it.
Any suggestions for setting overmap stuff like that, or should I just make stuff up (and get te players to help as is standard for Apocalypse World and some quests)?
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No. 90646 ID: 08202e

>>86336
Can you get banned for writing about sex between consenting sexually mature but underage teenagers?
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No. 90648 ID: 265534

>>90646
You shouldn't have said that they were underage, then no one would know and it would be okay.
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No. 90649 ID: 69994e

>>90646

probably not. Anything that is actually illegal (like child porn) is actually against the site rules.
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No. 90650 ID: 9dd1ee

>>90646
yeah you really shouldn't do that
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No. 90652 ID: c9045b

>>90646

Is it really important that they have to be underage? Don't specify that they're underage and you'll be fine.
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No. 90654 ID: 3009b4

>>90199
As a side note, if the sexual content is too easily obtainable the quest will also weaken. Sexy quests are allowed but the sex has to be earned. One can't swap in horror or violence with sex, as least not mechanically.

Look at Enemy Quest if you'd like an example where sex is frequent and main focus of the quest is romance and yet has a solid core.
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No. 90671 ID: 9fb9c2

>>90652
Okay, so I can just disclose that all sexually active characters are at least eighteen, then describe them as short and youthful?
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No. 90676 ID: 140972

>>90671
IIRC It starts from 16 and up depending on the state in the US, as long as they don't film it (since porn is always 18+)
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No. 90680 ID: c717e8

>>90646
>Can you get banned for writing about sex between consenting sexually mature but underage teenagers?

I'm not sure if "writing about" it is that bad, assuming that it's not just straight-up erotica. If you have teenage characters and imply or mention that they've had sex in order to set up some sort of plot point, then that's entirely fine, real life teenagers have sex and it causes drama and that's not an issue. Some soap operas do as much. Heck, Nabokov's Lolita is considered a classic.

The question is whether you actually depict the sex, or whether the sex itself is the point. You wouldn't get away with a purple prose ERP transcript, but have a scene transition from flirting to them lying in bed naked and talking would be fine. You could probably even cover the act itself if the focus of the writing is on their feelings and internal monologues and shit, so long as it still glosses over the actual physical actions.

Of course, drawing it would present additional difficulties, but the same principles would mostly apply. Just make sure it's not actually pornographic.

>>90671
>Okay, so I can just disclose that all sexually active characters are at least eighteen, then describe them as short and youthful?

Thaaaaat sounds like just blatantly trying to skip around the issue. People aren't going to be dumb enough to miss that, I think. You could also skip around the issue by making the characters aliens or fantasy creatures for whom sexual maturity is different, but that could also be pretty obvious, depending on specifics.

The real question is, are you intending to produce a piece of erotica? Is the sex the point of the whole thing, or is it just part of what produces the plot and/or character development? If the former, then no, don't make that. If the latter, then it's fine, just skip on the details of the act itself.

Just... don't make underage porn, basically. A story in which underage characters have sex isn't necessarily the same thing. It's all in the presentation.
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No. 90681 ID: f977e0

Honestly, draw or write whatever thing you want, just be prepared for some backlash on particularly controversial things.
See also: rape quest

A good idea would be to slap a content warning on post 1 and urge people not interested in seeing that to hide the thread.
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No. 90682 ID: c717e8

>>90681

Well, some countries do have restrictive enough laws that certain things that could be put in a quest could get someone in trouble, you know.
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No. 91260 ID: a19cd5

>>90682
valid point.
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No. 91450 ID: f8b4f5

>>90681
Casual reminder that Rape Quest was started in 2009 by Weaver.
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No. 91968 ID: c3a57c

Question: I have an idea for a quest, and it includes a game system to use (pretty much unaltered because I think it could work better for quest than tabletop, actually), and bits and pieces of a setting and ideas for NPCs. How much of that, "Write out your NPCs and get a fucking map," work should I do for a quest set in Mad Max-ish post-apocalypse with mutants, guns and cars?
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No. 92106 ID: 26d95a

>>91968
Well the big advantage of a quest is you have the option of a lot more control over the main character's actions. It comes down to how much of a sandbox you want the the place to be I guess.
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No. 92117 ID: c3a57c

>>92106
Mmm, if I am genuinely going to give people a post-apocalyptic world to do Mad Max-ish driving around in it needs to have a map with actual terrain and stuff to drive around, through and to I guess. I could start by making up stuff but sooner or later anyone would have problems keeping made up crap straight. I expect that but I was hoping people could give me tricks to use.

Better question: I need maps. Real world maps with stuff like terrain and elevation maps would be cool but I don't know how to handle the issue of picking a good place around the world to use from that and then representing forty years of post-apocalypse ruin and putting mutants and factions down. Any suggestions for what I can use and how to do that, or at least alternatives better than looking up the donjon.bin.sh world generators?
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No. 92346 ID: bd8b82

>>92117
a map doesn't need to be real, just coherent. if X is to the west of Y one time, don't say it's to the east later. can even make a good enough map with MSpaint for the purposes of marking where stuff is. just have a center point be where we start and around it be things we can go to. add things to the map as you need them. so start with a + shape. then add something to the map around which direction the players pic.
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No. 92365 ID: 37adba

>>92346
This is good general advice, but when I started thinking about it I realized I was thinking more sandbox. I wanted something that could help answer questions like, what are you driving through and past to get from A to B, what are the alternate routes, where can't you drive and why would you go there, where are there cliffs and terrain camouflage to hide raider camps, where does it flood when it rains, and stuff like that. Normally quests handle that logic more narratively but I'm hesitant to do that because two significant parts of the setting are small scale warfare with rifles and grenade launchers, and people hunting and scrounging for stuff to trade: A good map is all but necessary when you've got a scene that's mostly wargaming, and still at least interesting when trying to pick out what you wanna try your luck at looking for a payday.
Can anyone remember someone actually trying to run a quest more sandbox-ish like that? Does anybody know if this can work or why we don't see it more often?
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No. 92551 ID: 556f64

We don't see it often because quests without guidance or direction tend to die super hard from lack of guidance and direction and loss of enthusiasm.
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No. 92655 ID: 6b0329

>>92551
Yeah....
Hey, has anyone come up with a better solution to this issue than the revised Brom-style CYOA prompt?
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No. 92758 ID: 399459

So, I've been wanting to start (and hopefully finish) a quest at some point that isn't just some silly one off thing, but I'm having trouble just generally coming up with ideas.

Is there any type of story or setting or just vague that anyone would like to see implemented in a quest? I know that in the end I should pick something that I would enjoy doing, but I'm hoping to maybe get some juices flowing.